everything -- >> the one with the smallest hands. before we get out of trouble, elevate us. small hands. you have got nothing. >> nowhere to go after small hands except to chuck todd. my thanks to the panel. that does it for our hour. i'll nicolle wallace, "mtp daily" starts right now. hi, chuck. >> hi. are you wearing black today for a reason? >> there is always a reason to wear black in ump from's america. >> i will leave it there. thank you, nicole. happy friday. if it's friday, go directly to jail, and do not pass go, and do not collect $200. >> tonight, bail revoked. paul manafort is trading in home detention for a jail cell. as the president's own legal troubles get worse. plus, you a authoritarian envy. >> he speaks and his people sit up at attention. i want my people to do the same. >> why the president continues

to lavish laiz praise on kim jong-un. >> do you know why? because i don't want the see a nuclear weapon destroy you and your family. and how the white house is dodging al days agos of separating thousands of families at the border. >> i hate it. >> who the president is charging with the zero tolerance immigration order. this is "mtp daily," and it starts right now. ♪ good evening i'm chuck todd here in washington. welcome to "mtp daily." it's been a jaw dropping news day on many levels. we have said that before. but today felt a bit more extraordinary. while taking questions from reporters, the president attempted to discredit the russia investigation by cherry picking evidence from yesterday's ig report that was all about the clinton investigation. in an interview with fox he said he wants his people to quote sit up at attention just as they do in north korea. in both cases he spread

falsehood after falsehood on topics ranging from the humanitarian crisis at the bore kerr, to russia's annex of crimea, to paul manafort and his campaign. his former campaign chief is in jail right now. trump's lawyer is signaling that pardons not just for manafort could be coming. a judge in washington today ruled that manafort be taken into custody after mull ear's team alleged he was conspiring to obstruct justice and tamper with witnesses in his investigation. manafort pleaded not guilty to the new charges and with mueller fuelling and putting pressure on manafort to flip, rudy giuliani said in an interview things might get cleaned up with some presidential pardons. the president himself weighed in calling the judge's ruling quote very unfair. moments before all of this, he spoke to reporters about the legal situation facing his former campaign chief. >> i think a lot of it is very

unfair. i mean i look at some of them where they go back 12 years. manafort has nothing to do with our campaign. paul manafort worked for me for a very short period of time. he worked for me what, for 49 days or something? a very short period of time. i feel badly for some people because they have gone back 12 years the find thing about somebody. >> as i mentioned, the president also seized on yesterday's report from the justice department's inspector general and used it to undermine the mueller investigation. i would remind you that the ig stated the following, quote, there was no evidence that the conclusions by department prosecutors were affected by bias or other improper considerations, unquote. but the president today claimed that the report proved the exact opposite. >> they were plotting against my election, probably has never happened like that in terms of intelligen intelligence, in terms of anything else. but they were actually plotting against my election. >> again, that is not what the report said. as they say, don't let the facts

get in the way of a good story. >> the headline right now from the "wall street journal," d.o.j. clinton report blasts comey and agents but find no bias in conclusion. >> the end result was wrong. >> by the president's telling not only does a report concluding there was no bias prove bias but it proves trump was inspect if the russia investigation. >> the report yesterday totally exxon rates me. there was no collusion. there was no obstruction. if you read the report you will see that. i did nothing wrong. there was no kluge. there was no obstruction. the ig report yesterday went a long way to show that. and i think that the mueller investigation has been totally discredited. >> wow. let's bring in tonight's panel, alfonso aguilar. and steve burreler thof tailspin

the peep and forces behind america's 50-year fall and those fighting to reverse it. >> tailspin is a feeling i think a lot of us have today steve. yam eesh, this is -- yamiche, there are so many times we say it is an extraordinary moment with donald trump. and then he follows it up with another extraordinary moment. today was breath taking. >> today was breath taking. and the fact he wandered onto the lawn after watching fox and friend and why don't i talk to my colleagues in the driveway more than 50 minutes tells you this is a president who wants to get things off of his chest because he had no events planned today. back to the ig report i think it's important that he continues to real estate pete there was no collusion. he continued to create this narrative that he is a victim of this overzealous department that he oversys ads president because

the. the report wasn't about the interference of russia in the election but the fact that all the people watching object tv might take that in and supporters might eat that up and say that here's the president once again claiming he has been cleared. i boggles the mind. >> you know, steve, in your book, you attempt in some ways to try to explain how did we get here, got into this mess? and look, we can go down road. but what did you see today? >> i saw today what you saw last friday and the friday before and the friday before that. >> and the thursday and the wednesday and the tuesday and the -- sorry. >> you introduced your show by saying my god this was an unbelievable week. all this stuff happened. and it seems like every friday that's what you are saying and what everybody is saying, because it's true. his strategy obviously is just to throw as much out there as he possibly can. the more desperate he gets the more he is throwing out there. if you read the ig's report, i

mean, it obviously says nothing like he says it says. it has all kinds of nuggets in there that basically prove the lie of everything he is saying. >> you know, is he -- i'm interested in this, alphonso, and i go back is forth. e is he doing this because he is emboldened and feels stronger than ever or because he is nervous and feels the probe getting closer. is it both? >> both. he is questioning the investigation and trying to undermine it. clearly his statements this morning regarding the ig report were not truthful and over the top. however w the ig report, we have to be careful because it is a little bit messy. >> messy. >> it's confusing. >> it is. >> it does say the investigation was not bias of the but it does identify cases of personal bias of several fbi individuals who were leading the investigation. and that's troublesome.

he does say that that cast as cloud over the fbi and over the investigation that trump is going to take advantage of. >> use as a sledge hammer. >> this is not the end of it. but i think this opens the door to another ig investigation of the russian investigation. >> you were about to -- >> you tweeted yesterday that this report -- that anybody who wants to can cherry pick anything. that's true. but one of the other things you could cherry pick is that the agent who sent all of those text messages indicating his bias, you know, against the president also was one of those who urged that they reopen the investigation once they got -- >> and wanted to have grand jury and wanted to use the grand jury. >> pulled no punches. >> look but don't let the facts get in the way. that ruins the narrative. >> but the thing that president trump has been able to prove is that when he starts saying something over and over and over again that somehow it just becomes part of this -- the

ethos and that his supporters believe him over anything else. so there is the fact that he has kind of become the fact, the alternative fact as you smartly pulled out for us. that the alternative facts are going to matter. >> we put together a mash of eight claims he made that are disprovable completely or mostly. take a listen. >> i think that the report yesterday may be more importantly than anything totally exxon rates me. there was no collusion, there was no obstruction. if you read the or the you will see that. the mueller investigation has been totally discredited. i feel badly for general flynn. some people say he lied and some people say he didn't lie. i mean, really it turned out maybe he didn't lie. >> did you dictate the stale about donald trump jr. >> let's not talk about that. it's irrelevant. i hate the children being taken away. the democrats have to change the law. that's their law. we now have a very good

relationship with north korea when i came into this job it looked like war. i have solved thattan pro be prochlt now we are getting it memorialized. >> you solved it. >> the problem is largely solved. president obama gave away crimea. >> all of that happened on the north lawn. that's eight claims. >> we left out one headline from yesterday, which is the trump foundation. >> oh. oh, yeah. >> embedded in there are criminal charge has the irs can bring. >> i have got earth one and earth two here. i was going to get to that. >> in a normal sayings that would be a huge deal. >> but the department of homeland security was on the phone with reporters and i was on the call where they were detailing the fact they are separating -- separated about 2,000 kids from their parents or from their guardians when they came to this country as part of the zero tolerance program. jeff sessions is out there saying this is our program. we want it to happen. we want people to be deterred. and president trump saying this is actually the democrat.

the administration is taking credit for it that it is a good thing. >> the other lie is that it is the law that requires this. immigration law does not require family to be separated. it's the zero tolerance policy. when people enter ulgly, they are going to be tried criminally. >> you speaked three or four things. the crimea thing we could have done. what are earth one voters living on? i could make a strong case that it is a horrible week for the president. manafort is in jail. an ig report end up being a victory lap for clinton. the north korea summit seems to be a sham. economy stairs down a trade war. on earth two, in trump landia. gop lead remembers losing patients with mueller, the ig report proofs the fbi bias.

g7 allies, you want rip us off to. trump gets tough on the border. economy sets new records. what world are voters living in? >> the majority of vote remembers living in the first world. more important, they are lig in a world where their i think with as really aren't going up. where opportunities really aren't going up and a lot of this stuff is just stuff in the headlines. their lives have not improved. those coal miners that he promised to get their jobs back, they still don't have their jobs. i think they are moe more focused on that than they are even on any of this stuff. >> yamiche? >> voters are living in a wrl where mark sanford lost an election and where they see republicans who are not 100% behind the president lose their jobs. i think voters -- at least the voters living in earth number two they want people that are going to be completely loyal to the president. and a lot of people living in earth one, they are the blue wave that the democrats are hoping is coming.

but the democrats are still getting their message together. their so many headlines, the democrats aren't saying this is the one you really need to pay attention to. they have thing they are throwing up on the wall but it's really not sticking. >> they have to focus on something positive. they can't win by just attacking the president. >> the country is polarized. in democracy, you don't blame voters but we have voters who are polarized and they want to believe what the voters have to say. >> the problem is the information loop. the information loop is destructive right now. the feedback loop that the president is participating in right now is destructive to facts. >> i agree buy i think both sides can go to their media outlet of choice and get articles that -- given that -- >> every one of my colleagues grounds their arguments in facts. every one of my colleagues grounds their arguments in facts. there are other places that

don't ground their arguments in facts. >> i agree with that. i think you have to pick and choose the issues frankly chuck. >> i don't want to get into a media debate. but that echo chamber -- i agree with you, don't blame the voters. >> right. >> but that's the issue here. we are not -- we have people intentionally not agreeing on the same set of facts. >> you can't have a false equivalentsy about facts. either there is a law that forces those kids to be separated or there isn't. it's not my opinion. >> there is a brouhaha right now that trump is separating families. it is true. but in the obama administration we had administration of families. i didn't see the people complaining. >> there were come plants. luis gutierrez was. there were protests. >> that's when people were charged with real crimes. >> no, no, no anybody that entered illegally. father was separated from mother and child. that happened and i didn't see

lot of people complaining. >> the circumstances for those arrests -- >> i will be interviewing the commissioner of the borer the patrol on this show in a couple of minutes. we will discuss that and more in a few minutes. you have to stick around. up next, what's behind the president's continued endorsement of a dictator. and later an "mtp daily" exclusive that i just told you about, thousands of children being separated from their parents at the u.s./mexico border. we will talk to the man tasked with the easy were's immigration orders. until... we lost it. today, we're renewing our commitment to you. fixing what went wrong. and ending product sales goals for branch bankers. so we can focus on your satisfaction. it's a new day at wells fargo. but it's a lot like our first day. wells fargo. established 1852. re-established 2018.

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north korean dictator. he has called him talented, funny, and smart. at the white house this morning eeven seemed to be a bitten veeous of kim. >> he's the head of a country, and i mean he's the strong head. don't let anyone think anything different. >> right. >> he speaks, and his people sit up at attention. i want my people to do the same. >> that crazy scrum right after the president claimed he was kidding when he said that. and he called the reporter who asked him to clarify those points, quote the worst. joying me now, john brennan. a senior intelligence contributor here at msnbc news. welcome. >> thank you. >> before i get to the issue of kim and north korea you were referenced in the ig report. the ig report contains an e-mail that comey sent to you and clapper explaining his silence on the trump russia probe. in the e-mail he said, i think the window is closed and the opportunity for an official statement with four weeks until a presidential election i think

the marginal incremental disruption and impact of the statement would be hugely outweighed by the damage to the intelligence community's reputation for independence. how did you react to that? >> there were some tough decisions at that time. it didn't envy jim comey who had a number of interests he had to balance at the same time being as forthcoming as possible with the congress and with the president. any criminal investigations that are underway get difficult. i did not envy his position. there were some of those decisions i disagreed with, some i agreed with. it was tough. >> whose decision was this. >> it was going back and forth. there were a lot of discussions in the white house situation room, what should be said, who should say it, whether or not there needed to be a corps outside of voices out there. clapper and johnson, the director of national sfwel swren

and homeland security would put out a statement. there were questions with an ongoing investigation whether or not jim comey should be part of that or not. jim thought it wasn't really going to help the case in terms of his name being there. the fact in a the administration at a senior level was going to put it out there would serve the purpose. >> were you involved in that infamous gang of eight meeting where reportedly mitch mcconnell was the one who threw cold water on trying to make a more bipartisan ander mo of a let's link arms this is serious business statement? >> no, i wasn't involved in that meeting. i had my own individual meetings with the gang of eight prior to that where i spoke with leader mcconnell as well as others. >> were they questioning your findings at that time? >> senator mcconnell did, yes. >> under what guise? >> i think he was -- he thought that maybe the democratic administration was trying to undermine a republican candidate. and i took great umbrage at that, and i told him.

and i said, senator, i would not in any way politicize any type of intelligence. so i want to make sure that you understand that this is the considered view and assess innent and intelligence from cia. i let it be known in know uncertain terms that i did find that comment of his a bit repugnant. >> did he ask questions? did he want more information? did he say i'm suspectcal, show me more? was there any curiosity? >> i'm not going to go into details of the meeting other than to say i think he was skeptical and also i don't think he was all that pleased with my bringing it to him. >> was he un -- did you get the sense he was uninterested in finding more information out from you. >> well, he didn't evince a strong interest in finding out what was going on. i think he was reacting to what i was saying in terms of what implications it might have for the republican candidate. >> you compared the president to

a demagogue in an op ed. i'm interested how you think of the president in the way he is describing kim jong-un and the way he has been talking about him and the impact that that has around the world. >> frankly i'm sad that i'm not finding anything he says shocking im in. i find them all outrageous. the fact he has treated kim jong-un with deference as well as speaking of him as honorable. 's does pot, murderous authoritarian murderer. >> what has he ton. >> murdered political opponents. >> when the president said he is tough. tough translates into yeah, he murders his opponents. >> a lot of authoritarian leaders and despots have been tough. apparently that's what mr. trump admires in other individuals. >> what about when he says i am

going to deal with the dictator because i don't want a nuclear bomb dropped on your head? >> you have to deal with the president. freb and other presidents before him said they would do the same thing of i think he is laying the drownedwork for de facto acceptance of north korea as a nuclear power. he is going to claim kim jong-un has claimed he is no longer going to test and further develop it. he is claiming they are going down a denuclearization path but everything i have read and the statements don't indicate he is going to push kim jong-un to give up his nuclear weapons. >> does north korea become pakistan here. >> there was debate in the obama administration and the bush administration what can you do to keep it from.thatting and should there be acceptance but constrained. i think it has implications on other states pursuing nuclear weapons if you basically say north korea is there, it has it,

so we are not going to try to take them away. it's doing to send a signal. >> before i let you go. mcconnell and mccarthy, the mccarthy the likely next republican leader in the house. mcconnell, saying it's time for the mueller probe to end. do you believe the mueller probe could still be going on if he didn't have anything? >> i think bob mueller is one of the most respected public servants this country has ever seen. he is also diligent, meticulous, and he is persistent. and i believe that bob mueller's special counsel team has a number of investigative threads that they have been pulling over the last year that are going to be bearing fruit. and i am counting on director mueller to once and for all address the issue about whether or not there was conspiracy, whether or not there was collusion with russia, and despite what mr. trump said that the dodge ig report

exonerated -- the d.o.j. ig report exonerated him -- it did nothing along those lines. >> have you seen evidence of a conspiracy between americans connected to -- possibly connected to the president and russia? >> i think i famously said in a house hearing that i don't do evidence as an intelligence officer. since i have been out of office, i have seen a lot of reporting that indicates to me there was a lot of collaboration, a lot of interaction that to me requires people like bob mueller and others to look at whether or not it rose and reached the threshold of criminal activity. and there is a lot of smoke there. and a lot of concern at least on my part. >> john brenton, former director of the cia, and msnbc noshl security contributor. up ahead, ever knows the republicans who are most critical of president trump are also the ones who are not running for re-election? so have i. i have an idea of a place they can go where they can share their thoughts.

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welcome back. "tonight, i'm obsessed with" the lawmakers sudden rush of bravery and conviction. exhibit a, outgoing tennessee senator bob corker this week. >> it's becoming a cultish thing, isn't it? it's not a good place for any party to end up with a cult-like situation as it relates to a

president that happens to be of purportedly of the same party. >> notice i said outgoing. it seems as soon as lawmakers announce their retirements they are suddenly ready to let loose on the president. if only there were a place where lawmakers could finally be free, unencumbered by politics as always. well, that gave me an idea. ♪ you have worked hard. paid your dues, represented your constituents for years. now you are finally ready for retirement, and to speak your mind. hi there, i'm tv's chuck todd. i've spent my whole career covering washington politics. but i have an been busy with another idea, too. >> introducing the pines at congressional village. a new community taylormade for your active post political life-sty life-style. got something to say? say it? who cares? nobody listening. no more tough questions.

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welcome back. president trump promised to crack down on illegal immigration. right now that means immigrant families are being torn apart when they try to cross the southern or der in certain areas. the trump administration's zero tolerance policy calls for prosecutions of any immigrants caught trying to come here illegally. that means parents who cross with their kids are being taken to jail and their kids cannot come with them. we now nearly 2,000 children were taken from their parents this the haas six week alone. they're being held in detention facilities like this one in texas. next week the house may consider legislation that they say would ensure families crossing the border can stay together. because even some republicans in congress right now believe these policies are going too far. >> are you comfortable with the current zero tolerance policy leading to parents and children being separated at the border? >> no i'm not. we don't want kids to be separated from their parents. >> let's be clear here, before now, children were usually

allowed to stay with their parents in the detention centers while awaiting legal proceedings. no party has enacted any law that forces a authorities to separate families despite what president trump falsely claimed this morning. >> the democrats forced that law upon our nation. i hate it. i hate to see separation of parents and children. >> i'm joined now by customs and border protection commissioner kevin mcmacalenen. >> let me start with this. what are the orders that you have received, and where did they come from, that says you must separate all asylum seekers no matter where they are coming offer the border? >> it's important to start with context of what we are seeing at the border. we are in our third month of over 50,000 people arriving crossing between the forts illegally or arriving at the ports without documents. the folks have take aeb

harrowing journey. spending thousands of dollars per person with some of the ruthless people in the world, drug cartels that diversify their business and involve themselves in human smuggling. they are at extreme iske are. stored in stash houses, put in trucks at hundreds of degrees of heat. we see hundreds people die every year during this journey and the border patrol makes hundreds of saves at the same time. 320,000 family groups are arriving. we need to do something to break the cycle. >> so the policy got changed. who ordered the change in policy? >> you referenced the attorney general's decision to go to zero tolerance. for over ten years the u.s. border patrol has had a consequence delivery system where you try to apply consequences for violating. immigration violation, crossing the border illegally is not a

victimless crime. it puts the agents at market and the people at risk. it causes chaos in the communities. failure to yield situations. high-speed chases. people packed in semis. >> why is it so hard in the detention center, that the media was able to tour, why is it hard to keep families there. >> i'm glad you asked this. in 2014 the first time we saw a crisis like this we didn't have family recollection centers. jon jay aid made the decision because of the risk they were facing because of the cycle of violence and danger for the families being enticed into the system by our immigration laws he decided the retain families and repatriot them after their immigration proceeding. a year later in 2015 a district judge erpt anding a 20-year-old settlement between the ins and several plaintiffs determined we could not detain children even

if they were accompanied by their parents who than 20 days. it essentially forced release. we don't have that tool in our tool box to keep them together. s that what the administration has asked -- >> are they trying to generate a crisis here? >> absolutely not. >> right now, it didn't feel -- right now it feels like a humanitarian crisis that we had one way of dealing with it that felt more humane. everything you described it's like you are describing this harrowing journey and you are describing a lot of empathy, and then you are taking their kid. then you are going to take the kid away. that makes it worse. >> the crisis existed before six weeks ago. >> i understand that, yes. >> it was a humanitarian crisis for the people being enticed into the smuggling cycle. what we don't have is an ability to keep them together. a better system, congress has been asked to change the law to allow us to keep families together due their immigration proceeding make a good swift

fair decision. if they meet the asylum criteria they will be allowed to say. >> what is the process when the child is separated from their parent right now? are they allowed to say good-bye? what kind of contact is allowed? we have gotten anecdotal stories. >> sure. >> of pretty -- it doesn't feel compassionate. >> i'm concerned about the stories that have been reported. our agents are compassionate. they aren in and women who are parents. over 50% of them are latinos and hispanics. these children look like their own children. they are doing it in the most humane and civilized way they can. explaining to the adult you vie lighted our laws, you are going to be prosecuted. it is not a permanent situation you are going to be apart from your child but we need to take you into the court and your child is going to profession who deal with children every day at health and human services. >> do they say good-bye?

>> hhs and the department of homeland security put a fact sheet out that explains the process, explains who the contact for parents to try to reyou hate to with their children. it minutes is how advocates and family can also get information and support the process. >> do you have enough manpower? >> no. we need more border patrol agents and cvp agents. >> i thought you got a bunch more funding. >> we are making progress. we are now starting to hire agents more successfully again. yes, we are asking for and receiving support from congress on personnel. >> if the president asks attorney general sessions to essentially change the zero tolerance policy how fast could you change the way border patrol handles asylum seekers. more helpfully, if congress would close the double standard on had you we treat kids depending on -- >> i'm trying to be a political realist. i know you are not a political guy but guess what.

congress shot going to pass anything in an election year. that's clear. we are now in this no-man's-land of political paralysis. if the president sort of orders jeff sessions to change this policy, could you implement it quickly? >> we are an igs practical law enforcement agency we respond quickly to direction. >> do you find it harder to do it this way versus how jeh johnson had you do it four years ago? >> absolutely. this is tremendously challenges for law enforcement profession. they want to be out on the border catching smug litigation letters bringing hard narcotics into our country. >> this is taking resources away from being able to worry about the bad guys. >> they were obligated to catch the families and children and process them as they were coming across. there is no further impact on our resources. we would like to to have them apply for asylum at ports of entry, or close loopholes to

have a consistent system so they are not trying at all. >> at the port of entry they are being told the line is so long don't bother. they are in a catch 22. you are telling them don't come in between ports of entry yet the line so long some people are alleging it's being slow walked at ports of entry in order to discourage. what's going on? >> that's not the case. we have capacity issues. take a port like san ysidro. over 130,000 people a day are at that port of entry. the busiest in north america. one of the busiest in the world. it's also the site where most of the hard narcotics coming into the u.s., through the southwest border, in personally owned vehicles, in compartments, in gas tanks, axels. our officers are a tremendous important mission there to facilitate the lawful travel and fine those drugs. we are trying to accommodate people arriving without documents process claims for asylum lawfully and balance it.

sometimes people need to wait a little while. >> what do you need congress to do. >> from the border security perspective there are three issues. it is a double standard on kids, kids from mexico are repatriated swiftly and it is a small percentage of unaccompanied kids coming from. >> this is prime ear a central america issue. not a mexico issue. >> secondly, we have to end the practice of not detaining people for more than 20 days. we would like to keep them together for the entirety. third, the fear g-- that gap is creating an incentive to come illegally. >> commissioner, i no he this is a challenging time politically, policiwise, and for the folks on the border. thanks for coming on and explaining. >> nank for letting us explain

what we are doing. >> still ahead, why republicans are hitting the panic button in a big midterm race. we'll be right back. for weakness. do not misjudge quiet tranquility for the power of 335 turbo-charged horses. the lincoln mkx, more horsepower than the lexus rx350. and a quiet interior from which to admire them. for a limited time, get 0% apr on the lincoln mkx plus get $1,000 bonus cash.

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championing confederate monuments and catering to the party's far right fringe. ultraright. there is concern that his candidacy could cost them as many as four seats in conin virginia alone. larry sab doe tweeted this. long time major gop donors and campaign workers in virginia told me last night, referring to primary night and today that with corey stewart's nomination they are done with the party. last straw. understood more proof. the national republican senate committee is not officially endorsing stewart and have quote no plans to spend any money on that race. endang endangered barbara come stock wouldn't mention stewart's name when asked about the race. stewart was donald trump's virginia campaign chair person.

and donald trump zbrated him saying he has a major chance of winning. saved me a ton of money. -love you, gary! -you don't have to buzz in. it's not a question, gary. on march 1, 1810 -- [ ding ] -frédéric chopin. -collapsing in 226 -- [ ding ] -the colossus of rhodes. -[ sighs ] louise dustmann -- [ ding ] -brahms' "lullaby," or "wiegenlied." -when will it end? [ ding ] -not today, ron. vof hundreds of families, he'se hmost proud of the one the heads he's kept over his own. brand vo: get paid twice as fast with quickbooks smart invoicing. quickbooks. backing you.

time now for the lid. they've already gotten started, the panel here. okay. i should just back away. you guys have have strong opinions. >> what i heard is the agency is worried about the media push back they are getting and the fact there's a lot of reporters combing through what they were doing. they were trying to make it seem as though they weren't separating the families that i understand were all about the law. there's no law that says you have to separate families. >> the commissioner acknowledged that. >> he acknowledged that eventually. the party line and the line they are telling most people is there's a law out there. i'm sure sarah sanders next week will be saying this is because of law and the bible which is another argument they've been

making. >> i don't want to go down there. >> the fact is they are doing this. i think the fact they are putting people out and having these calls with the media is they are very, very worried this will not go away. >> i thought it was interested me admit if policy changes, he can change. >> i'm not sure what the ground rules and protocol are for the green rooms here so i'm not going to quote him. when the commissioner and one of his aides before and watching the end of nicole show where they showed the pictures of kidding being separated. he was indignant. he was like he was a victim. he said why are they -- nooii'm going to quote him. he was out raged. you have to ask how do you get up in the morning and do that job. >> i don't like that policy. i think it's cruel and terrible.

i'm not defending the administration, let it be clear. >> they're creating a crisis. >> they're trying to create another deterrent. >> i understand the situation on the border. to try to give the impression that the trump administration is much more inhumane come bare ep the obama administration. this policy is worse than the policies if place. there were some policies and he made reference to it. during the obama administration that were awful that separated families. that's why we need immigration reform. >> you bring a good point. obama fund raised back in 2012, he was getting protest from immigration advocates. >> that's true. >> they called him deporter in chief. the thing that's different is he

billed a campaign attacking immigrants. it was founded in some ways people think in racist way and then you add to that the fact it's zero policy. this is not some families, it's all families. i'm not saying obama was better. they have changed a policy and made it worse. >> sometimes i feel there's selective outrage. >> i'm shocked that happens in washington. >> there are a lot of people that agree with you. a lot agree with you and think obama did not get enough push back for what he did. when i was calling around trying to get in touch with families. so many people said i can give you people sfreparated back und obama so what kind of families do you want. >> it's true. it's matter of degree and matter of attitude. let's compare this to the bush administration. there's no way that the first homeland security secretary would have in any way

participated in a policy this draconi draconian. the policy is the way we're going to defer people is we're going to tell them. they have announced that. >> we sent national guard troops to the border as well. the ironic thing is that the compromise bill that's being discussed in the house would end this practice. it wouldn't amend immigration law. it would end the president's policy. >> doesn't purport to change the law because there's no law to change. >> all right. thank you very much. what a kracrazy friday. i'll be right back.

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in case you missed it, you haven't missed it yet. we have two things we don't want you to miss. consider this sunday is father's day. call your dad, friend, brother. if you know someone who lost their father, call them too. you don't want to miss my interview with mark sanford. he's criticizing president trump and the republican party. he gets raw. he gets personal. fascinating conversation. that's all we have for tonight. the beat with ari melber starts

now. we have a big show tonight. the words i'm about to report are truly unusual even for an unusual year. paul manafort is in jail right now. a judge decided with bob mueller to find that manafort has been credibly accused of obstruction of justice meaning he's too dangerous to be allowed to remain free awaiting his trial. number one, this former campaign chief for the president of the united states is slated to be incarcerated until his trial begins. number two, if paul manafort is convicted and sentenced to the maximum punishment that would mark, that would mark the first day of a lifetime behind bars. there are alternatives as well. one is that paul manafort could be found not guilty and thus get out of jail term he starts tonight. another alternative is he could cooperate, get a lighter sentence. that bri