child. and then as a captive in somalia. and now i have -- have found my house and my place, my place in the world. this is my house in the sky. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm natae moras. thank you for watching. >> and a good morning to you. i'm richard louis in new york at msnbc world headquarters. 7:00 in the east, 4:00 in the west. here is what's happening for you changing its tune. the president flip-flops on immigration. where does the white house stand as thousands of migrant families are still being separated. behind bars, former trump campaign chairman paul manafort is in jail prompting the president's attorney to say there needs to be some cleaning up. >> after the investigation is over, then it has to be considered as a governmental matter, not by me. and what the history has been is these people -- these things get cleaned up. >> how far can the power of the

pardon reach and what message does all this send to other mueller witnesses? we'll look into that. leaving soon? press secretary sarah sanders denies reports of her departure, but would it come as a surprise in a white house as an active revolving door. new today, rudy giuliani clarifying comments that he made about the presidential pardons. here is what he said, quote, when the whole thing is over, things might get cleaned up with some presidential pardons. meanwhile, here is what he said in an interview last night. >> then why did you suggest it? >> i didn't suggest it. i said he shouldn't pardon anybody. and the president said to me, you shouldn't pardon anybody. what i said was after the investigation is over, then it has to be considered as a governmental matter, not by me. what the history has been is these things get cleaned up. >> so you're saying after the probe is over, it may be cleaned up with any pardons -- >> if people were unfairly

prosecuted. if they were fairley prosecuted, no. >> this came on the same day a judge revoked president trump's former campaign manager, paul manafort's bail. manafort is now in jail awaiting trial on charges, including money laundering and making false statement. and a new interview airing sunday defeated republican congressman mark sand ford issued a new warning about accepting falsehoods made by the president. >> maybe the reason i'm so outspoken on this now is there is no seeming consequence to the president and lies. and if we accept that as a society, it is going to have incredibly harmful consequences in the way that we operate going forward based on the construct of the founding fathers. sanford lost the south carolina gop primary in his district to a candidate that president trump did endorse. meanwhile, more fallout from the president's impromptu and wide ranging press conference on

friday. >> president trump unleashed and on the attack. in a free wheeling face-off with reporters, the president said that doj inspector general report would sharply criticizes former fbi director james comey and the fbi let's him off the hook. >> there was no collusion. there was no obstruction. the ig report yesterday went a long way to show that. >> but that's misleading. the report was only about the fbi's handling of the clinton e-mail investigation. not the russia probe. still, the president slamming st ig reports finding that politics didn't play a role. >> it was a pretty good report. and then i say that the ig blew it at the very end with that statement. >> all of it fodder as the president sharpens his attacks against special counsel robert mueller. his had attorney, rudy giuliani saying the investigation should be suspended. >> i think that whole

investigation -- look, the problem with the mueller investigation is everybody has massive conflicts. >> ft. changing his tune on fired national security adviser michael flynn. >> some people say he lied and some people say he didn't lie. maybe he didn't lie. >> but that's a major shift. the president said he fired flynn for lying and flynn later pleaded guilty for lying to the fbi about his contacts with russian officials. the president pressed on his former personal attorney, mike equalco.en, and reports cohen is considering cooperating with federal investigators. >> are you worried michael cohen did not flip? >> look, i did nothing wrong. this stuff would have come out a long time ago. >> it comes just days after the president struck a deal with north korea to denuclearize. reporters questions him on why he has been praising a nuclear dictator. >> because i don't want to see a nuclear weapon destroy you and

your family. >> and the president raising eyebrows with this comment. >> he's the head of a country and he's a strong head. don't let anything say anything different. he speaks and his people sit up with attention. i want my people to do the same. >> but north korea is a totalitarian regime where dissent isn't tolerated. when challenged, mr. trump shrugged it off. >> i'm kidding. >> the president weighing in on the immigration crisis engulfing his administration. >> i hate it. i hate the children being taken away. the democrats have to change their law. >> but nothing in the law requires the administration to separate children from their parents. >> but there's no law that says that families have to be separated at the border. >> the democrats gave us the laws. now, i want the laws to be beautiful, humane, but strong. i don't want bad people coming in -- >> while president trump is blaming democrats for the border crisis, it's republicans who control both chambers of

congress. next week, house speaker paul ryan is expected to introduce legislation to deal with the issue, but it's expecting very deep hurdles. >> thank you very much. let's bring in kevin surly, juliaen manchester. kick us off here, kevin. we have a lot to cover. why don't we start specifically with that very issue. you saw the report coming out of nbc news. some 1,995 children separated from their families, right? you divide that out under the zero tolerance policy. that's about 46 children a day. lay out for us -- and you saw kristin giving us the specifics related to is it the democrats' fault, is it the administration's fault. it looks like from all we see here it is the trump administration's policy. >> you know, look, i think there's no question that this congress, this administration, have not about been able to get

to a cohesive, singular policy in terms of immigration. and, in fact, just that past week and speaking with republicans on capitol hill, the divide within the republican party right now to move forward on the issue of immigration, it is stalled. i mean, you've got half of the republican party suggesting that there has to be, you know, no amnesty. the other half saying there is amnesty. this debate has been going on well before president trump took office. but this is a president who campaigned on the notion that he would fix it. and we're just a few months out from the midterms, richard. quite candidly, i don't see a resolution in sight. >> time is ticking away. julia, your thoughts on what the president may be thinking, on the policy that it is an idea that he may be making some calculation that he will get some political points and leverage in congressional

negotiations. on friday, the president suggesting he would not change the policy unless democrats agreed to his other immigration demands which include fundsing the border wall, tightening the rules for boardser enforcement and curbing legal entry. your thoughts, julia, is this what it all comes down to here? >> right. so we'll have to see, but i think what's important to look at is the people that the president has surrounded himself with on the issue. this isn't the first time the president has appeared to flip-flop on the issue. he, in the past, has appeared to express some sort of compassion for immigrants crossing the border. however, he has surrounded himself with immigration hard liners such as steven miller in the white house and i think those harsh liners represent some of the views of trump's base that will most likely come out in the 2018 midterms. so we'll really have to see. the president signals at first, you know, saying i would support both bills on the centrist and the more hard liner bill. however, its could be more politically feasible for the president to support the more hard liner bill.

however, you know, this claim that it's the democrats' fault that this hasn't -- we're stalled here, it's his claim that it's the democrats' fault for this policy doesn't make sense. this was their decision. i think what the administration may be hinting at is the fact that democrats aren't on the table with them on this issue. but this is a trump administration policy through and through. >> there's also this that touk about, kevin. your thoughts on rudy giuliani's comments about cleaning up. >> well, look. i think rudy giuliani has been on the offense and trying to be on the offense for quite some time. i mean, but when you've got paul manafort taken into jail at 8:22 last evening, the previous trump campaign chairman, this mueller investigation is moving forward with our without rudy giuliani's

approval. >> let's talk more about what rudy giuliani did say. >> let me make it clear right now. he is not going to pardon anybody in this investigation, but he is not, obviously, going to give up his right to pardon if a miscarriage of justice is presented to him after the investigation is over. >> that doesn't mean he could. >> so i think giuliani is showing that the president does like to use his pardon power. he likes to wield that executive power. we've seen him pardon several individuals within the past couple of weeks and we've seen reports that he plans to pardon numerous other individuals in the future. we'll really have to see how this goes on the russia investigation. i'm brought back to a few weeks ago when giuliani and trump were saying, well, we have the power to pardon himself, however, he's not going to do that. so definitely some interesting signaling from his legal team. >> kevin, signaling, right? signaling. and that is when we look at the

mueller investigation, that is exactly what critics are saying, hey, look at this. >> they're saying, hey, look at this. and also, i just think, you know, it's quite dizzying, the pace of this week in particular. you know, it was just two days ago. we're in singapore. yesterday the president is out on the white house north lawn. you have paul manafort taken into custody. this is another week in trump world, richard. >> it is another week. and julia, with when we do look at the president now, if you want to call it a press conference, it had a duration, it had full exposure to all of the white house press corps, right, as he went out and spoke on fox for about 30 minutes and the white house press corps for about another 30 minutes. he is potentially becoming more comfortable standing in front of the press, unlike before. because his first year, he only did it once. >> and it was -- not to

interrupt, bit was right after the more than hour-long press conference he had in singapore. >> thaerts. that's right. 66 minutes if you were counting along with everyone else watching that day. >> i think it's coordinated. i think he would like to draw the attention back to himself and put his thoughts on the issues out there and speak directly to his supporters and voters ahead of the midterms. really interesting comments, though, yesterday. and one thing that stuck out to me is his comments on michael flynn saying, well, some people say he was telling the truth. other people said he lied. the fact is, the president's administration fired him for lying and flynn later pled guilty to lying to the fbi. so that was the biggest thing that really came out to me yesterda and his comments about paul manafort saying he felt badly about it. but while he only worked for me for a short period of time,

so -- yeah, it all comes back to signaling. >> certainly seemed, at least just by the number of pseudo or press conferences themselves, solo, that he is more comfortable, right, in year two here. >> absolutely. >> addressing the press, just one on many. i know you're going to stick around. thank you both so much, kevin and julia. see you a little bit later in this half hour. there's more to talk about on the level front, as well, including whether the president's one-time lawyer might flip. what would happen then? we'll ask an attorney, next. moving in together and getting two of everything thing. those fur babies preparing you for real babies thing. that one for me, one for you, us together for the rest of everything. buy one iphone 8 and get one iphone 8 on us. more for your thing. that's our thing. visit att dot com.

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new developments after form ur trump campaign manager paul manafort has been taken to jail.

president trump reacting what a tough sentence for paul manafort who has represented ronald reagan, bob dole and many other top political people and campaigns. didn't know manafort was the head of the mob. what about comey and crooked hillary and others. glenn, thanks for stopping by. you heard the president, you know, the charges against manafort not directly linked to the investigation into russia's meddling in the election. but how might this play into what robert mueller is doing? >> well, good morning, richard. you know, first of all, i think many people have already commented on the fact that the president said that, you know, what a harsh sentence this was. and we all know it's not a sentence. instead, mr. manafort violated the conditions of his release as set about by the judge and he was stepped back as we put it. he was taken into custody and will be detained now pending his trials, both in the eastern

district of virginia and in the district of colombia. but i think things have taken a more difficult turn with mr. manafort. whereas before he was facing financial crimes, money launder, potential tax evasion, unlawful lobbying, now he's facing witness tampering. under the u.s. code section 1512, each count of witness tampering carries up to 20 years in prison. so things have taken a difficult turn for mr. manafort. this, of course, gives the mueller team an open to go perhaps begin negotiate, his attorneys or sort of jump start the negotiations if they had, perhaps, stalled. but if we take a little bit of a deeper dive, richard, i'm not even sure that the mueller team would want to do business with, you know, somebody like paul manafort who is this sort of morally mellowed manafort. if the prosecutors, if mr. mueller's team embraces manafort

as a cooperating witness, then they sort of own him. and when they put him on the stands, they're going to be perceived as being aligned with somebody who has tampered with witnesses. and, you know, that makes for a real credibility challenge for that kind of a witness. >> glenn, quickly, then, with this now added on to the balance, does this give mueller even a better opportunity, would you say, now to flip him finally? >> if mueller's team is interested in bringing mr. manafort on as a cooperating witness, i think now is the time. the leverage is high. and i think we all know that by virtue of mr. manafort being president trump's campaign manager for more than just a minute, as we say, he undoubtedly can bring important information to the table. >> you say if, though, glenn. and you use words carefully. do you get a sense that he may not want to for reasons that you just mentioned? >> i'll tell you, as a career

prosecutor until two weeks ago, i'm always pretty careful about the cooperating witnesses i do business with because if i -- if i were to bring him on board and put mr. manafort on the stand, he would be cross-examined with, well, sir, you were tampering with witnesses so you're willing to do anything to get a deal for yourself or to get yourself out from under the hammer that is now hanging over your head. so it would be difficult, i think, to build up his credibility. it can be done. mueller's team will do it, but it will be a challenge. >> so there is also this. we were playing some of the sound earlier, glenn. the president's attorney, rudy giuliani, continuing his attack on the russia investigation, telling the new york daily news, rather, when the whole thing is over, things might get cleendz up with some presidential pardons. and then as you may have heard earlier, he did try to walk back that comment saying that he advised the president no pardons, but as you look at this here, glenn, what are we saying?

could this be another form of witness tampering? >> you know, that's a great question, richard. because we have all heard the president has unfettered pardon power. how could his act of pardoning somebody possibly be held against him as evidence of corruption or evidence of evil intent? let me use a quick everyday hypothetical to illustrate how a lawful act can be evidence of a crime. let's assume a buddy of mine and i decide to go rent a car. renting a car is a lawful act. let's assume we're renting a car to go to the beach. let's assume that same buddy and i go and rent a car to commit a bank robbery. that lawful act is now evidence of our criminal conspiracy. the same holds true with a part. if you issue a pardon with a corruption purpose, it could be evidence of criminal conspiracy. the constitution is not some magical document that gives the

president abdomabsolution. >> like with cars and pardons, evidently gps does pay off. coming up, thank you so much, glenn. appreciate it. coming up, new signs the heat of the west wing is burning out the white house staff. hear that sizzle? yeah. red lobster's lobster & shrimp summerfest is back! get all the lobster and shrimp you crave, together in so many new ways. there's new cedar plank seafood bake. tender maine lobster and shrimp, cedar roasted to perfection. or new caribbean lobster and shrimp. sweet pineapple salsa on grilled rock lobster, paired with jumbo coconut shrimp. and wait. there's lobster & shrimp overboard! it's a seafood party on a plate. so hurry in. 'cause lobster & shrimp summerfest won't last.

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white house press secretary sarah huckabee sanders responded to a report by cbs about her leaving the white house. >> i think cbs got ahead of themselves by putting out a story without ever talking to me. in terms of personnel announcements, i don't have any to make. i can tell you you that i show up here every day. i love my job. i'm glad to work for the president. >> kevin, what are you hearing?

>> you know, i mean, look, i don't think that she's seriously considering an immediate exit from her position. i also don't think two years in would make it odd for her to explore her options, either. she's deeply integrated into president trump's orbit and i don't find anything odd right now in terms of timing nor her response nor do i find an immediate departure imminent. >> inner circle small, she's part of that. two years is a natural time frame. >> completely agree with kevin. however, it's important to take into account this job is normally hard under any administration, but under the trump administration, very hard. >> very, very difficult. it's been so much fun with the two of you. a quick 30 minutes. kevin, julia, friends of this half hour, appreciate it. that does it for me. i'm richard louis. at the top of the hour, we have hugh hewitt.

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