question who she is. making her question her faith in humanity. that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. i'm craig melvin. i'm natalie morales. and this is "dateline." houfl that so many people think seechb avery is innocent? >> it's emotional. they made him out like a nice person. what's happening is wrong. the evidence is beyond overwhelming. the story gripped the nation in a series, making a murderer. >> so many learned about it. >> steven avery and his nephew

convicted of murder in the haunting killing of a young photographer. but were they really innocent? >> i didn't do it. somebody is doing a good job on me. >> did you have any vendetta against steven avery? >> absolutely not. >> a lead investigator defends his interrogation which led to a conviction overturned. >> this was seen by many as a false confession. >> i feel it was a real confession. >> we just need you to be honest with us. >> those officers wanted the information in the worst way and they got it in the worse way. >> they fight back with an explosive book. >> they're going to hear the other side. >> and the -- >> you think you have new evidence that could free steven avery? >> we do. welcome to "dateline." it's an extraordinary case that

defies easy answers. at the center of it all, steven avery. he and his teenage nephew were convicted in the brutal murder of wisconsin photographer theresa -- then a documentary series exploring allegations of police corruption so explosive investigators have been forced to fight back. two sides, one truth. who will you believe? >> the mystery of what happened here in the sprawling fields of rural wisconsin has captivated the country. >> we the jury find the defendant, steven a. avery, guilty. >> in 2015, the netflix series, making a murderer convinced many viewers that steven avery and brendan gas ee had been railroaded by law enforcement. it's a case "dateline" has been following for more than a decade. their lawyers worked tirelessly

to free them from prison, we posed a question everyone has been asking to two men who helped put them behind bars. >> why would steven avery do this? >> that's a good question. >> he's written a book which repeals his provocative theory, that steven avery made himself a murderer. >> seechb avery started planning this event when he went to prison. >> we talked to the lead investigators who has come under fire for this controversial investigation. >> you've stayed silent through this firestorm. >> someone needed to speak out and bring forward the truth of what happened. >> so what did happen here? our story begins with the woman at the heart of the case. a 25-year-old photographer from wisconsin named theresa halbach. >> she just loved being behind the camera. >> kim peterson and theresa

became fast friends in college. both were photographers working at the same studio in green bay. teresa had a special way with her subjects. >> she would get the smile. that was one thing she loved to do. just make other people smile. >> the two stayed in touch after graduation as they launched their careers. that would change suddenly on october 31st, 2005. kim caught a story on the local news. teresa was missing. >> investigators say the 25-year-old photographer was on assignment for auto trader magazine when she disappeared. >> my heart kind of dropped, knowing it was somebody i knew. >> wisconsin police quickly launched a massive serve. mot fostered by a team of volunteers. >> they had found tere's vehicle. >> tom fassbender, a special agent with the wisconsin department of special investigation hustled over to

this 40-acre area. home of steven avery, auto mechanic. >> had you heard his name before? >> only through the media. >> steven avery was convicted of rape in 1985 but 18 years later, dna evidence exonerated and him and he was freed. a wrongfully convicted manuel comed back to society looking for justice of his own. >> were you aware he had filed a lawsuit against the local sheriff's department? >> i had heard that. >> he hoped winning the $36 million lawsuit would get him back on his feet. >> he appeared he was headed in that direction. >> two years after being released from prison, this poster boy was back in the news. not in a good way. >> i hope she comes back so she can go back to her family. >> when fast bender arrived on

side, he learned she had an appointment to take photos of this van avery's sister was selling. teresa had left a message that morning. >> hello, this is teresa, the photographer and just giving a call to let you know i'll come out there today in the afternoon. it would probably be around 2:00. >> steven avery confirmed to investigators that teresa had been on the property that day and left around 2:30 p.m. avery didn't tell them much more. but for investigators a tale started emerging from the physical evidence, especially when they made a gruesome discovery in the back of teresa's suv. >> we found teresa's blood in the vehicle, primarily in the cargo area. >> and in the front, more blood. >> there was blood on some of the upholstery and a very telling swipe of blood near the ignition switch of the vehicle. >> tests showed that blood was steven avery's, taking him from

person of interest to prime suspect. >> you believe you can explain the blood from steven avery? >> well, yes, absolutely. steven avery had a cut on his right hand, middle finger that was freshly scabbed over. if you took that key and put it in that ignition switch, it lined up perfectly with a contact pattern swipe. >> how did he explain that cut? >> i'm not sure i remember. i think he claimed he cut in the junkyard doing work on vehicles. >> his team feared the worst and then his team found something disturbing in a fire pit near avery's trailer. >> what appeared to be bone fragments. >> human bones. most interesting because family members told investigators steven avery built a bonfire hours after teresa had been at the yard that day. >> it was a huge bonfire, flames as high as the roof on the garage. >> was it all making sense to you?

>> looking at the whole picture, absolutely. >> and that picture came into sharper focus when fassbender's team found another clue, teresa's key in avery's bedroom. >> the toyota key, with the fob connector to it. >> this is huge. >> yeah. >> especially when they later found avery's dna on it. it would become a highly controversial clue in the case. the evidence was stacking up against steven avery and fassbender said the rav4 would tell investigators one last thing. >> we had tested the hood latch and found dna matching steven on the hood latch. >> fassbender leefd avery had explaining to do. nine days after teresa's disappearance, he and his partner brought him in for an interview. "dateline" filed a freedom of information request to obtain the video. >> you know the key is there because you put the key there. that's the only way the key gets there. >> no. >> yes, steve, yes.

>> avery was defiant and even claims cops were framing him, planting evidence. >> the cops have evidence. >> fassbender and wiegert weren't buying it and placed him under arrest. >> i didn't do it. somebody's doing a good job on me. >> investigators were convinced they had their man. still, they didn't know how or why teresa had been killed. coming up -- shackles, handcuffs, strange behavior. >> teresa's creeped out. >> could something in his past have led him to murder? when "dateline" continues. ♪ ♪ protect your pet with the #1 name in flea and tick protection. frontline plus. trusted by vets for nearly 20 years.

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rated pg-13. >> in january 2006, steven avery pleaded not guilty and ken kratz began building his case. he chronicles it all in his book, avery. >> what do you feel people know the least about in this case? >> the book is about steven avery that is setting forth a better representation of what the real evidence was. >> better, he says, than the way the evidence was presented in "making a murderer." for the first time, kratz lays out his theory with new details he's never shared before. for one thing, kratz tells "dateline" he believes steven avery had set his sights on

teresa halbach in the weeks leading up to her murder. >> as we move closer to october 31st, we see steven's behavior changing. >> as kratz got auto trader's record, he learned teresa had made five earlier visits to the salvage yard to take photos, some at steven avery's request. >> he starts making calls directly to teresa halbach. rather than going through auto trader. >> and kratz determined on the day before one of these visits, avery purchased these shackles and handcuffs. >> when teresa arrives -- >> he answers the door wearing a small white towel. and teresa, we know is creeped out by that behavior. she tells friends and co-workers about that. >> kratz believes avery's behavior shows signs of a sexual obsession with teresa that led to murder. >> why would steven avery do this when he was on the verge of getting this big windfall, potentially millions of dollars? >> that's a great question.

you know, i don't know. we know he's a psychopath. we know that he has -- >> do we know that? >> well, i -- let's say, i allege that. i believe that, deep down. >> kratz discovered more in avery's past. 18 years before teresa's murder, avery wrote this letter to his estranged wife from prison, saying, i will kill you. and a former fiancee told police he had physically abused her. d kratz said he learned something even more disturbing. this 2006 police report accuses avery of raping a teenage girl. this is a year after his release from prison. it all came together for krats. he believed avery had developed a deep resentment of women which had started with his wrongful conviction and had only grown over the years. >> he has no remorse for his behavior, feels incredibly entitled. >> but as he continued to

investigate the case, kratz had a problem. >> you still didn't know how she was killed, exactly where she was killed. was that bothering you? >> yes, but sometimes you have what you have. it was all coming together in bits and pieces. >> he and his team kept digging until they got a big lead. >> have a seat. >> in march, 2006, four months after teresa's murder, tom fassbender spoke with avery's 16-year-old nephew in a series of highly scrutinized interviews. >> what was your opinion of brendan dassey? >> a shy kid, somewhat introverted. >> but once he opened up, the details he revealed would stun investigators. >> what else did he do to her? >> raped her. >> did he tell you that? >> fassbender says dassey described a brutal scene. on that halloween afternoon, his uncle asked him to come over to his trailer.

dassey said they each sexually assaulted teresa in avery's bedroom. and avery later shot her in his garage, burning her body in the bonfire. >> it's a game-changer. he told us stuff we weren't really aware of, like teresa was shot in the garage and had died there. >> and after speaking with dassey, fassbender had his team return to the avery property once more. and they found this in his garage, a bullet fragment. >> and that was missed the first time around. >> well, i guess i could say it was missed. but you're talking about a bullet fragment, looks like a piece of dirt probably. >> and it was tested? >> it was tested. teresa's dna was on that bullet. >> and do you now believe that teresa was shot in that garage? >> yes. >> one strange thing, though, when they searched the garage for blood, they never found a drop. >> how could you clean up all that blood? >> well, he did it to the best of his ability, i guess. bleach, paint thinner.

cleans up blood. >> teresa's friend kim said when she heard the details about teresa's final moments, she was heart broken. >> i remember crying and just hoping she was who she was and fought. because she was a very strong person. >> ken kratz charged brendan dassey as a co-conspirator in her murder. >> i intend to hold each of these defendants accountable for the rape, the torture, and the murder of teresa halbach. >> but not so fast. dassey recanted his statements. just before avery's trial, the judge dismissed the rape charge against him and didn't allow any of those allegations about avery's treatment ofomen, saying they didn't prove anything about teresa's murder. and avery was never charged with assaulting his ex-fiancee or with raping the teen. to this day, he denies all the allegations. and those handcuffs and shackles, no evidence ever linked them to teresa.

still, in the spring of 2007, juries convicted both dassey and avery of murdering teresa. that was in separate trials. they were each sentenced to life in prison. >> you are probably the most dangerous individual ever to set foot in this courtroom. >> it seemed like the avery saga had ended. but eight years later, "making a murderer" would put fassbender, kratz, and their entire team in the hot seat. coming up -- >> did they plant evidence? >> sure, they did. >> was steven avery framed? >> is it possible that that blood could have been planted? >> when "dateline" continues. and we're committed to improving every ride. starting with features designed to make it easy for your driver to find you. taking the stress out of pickups. and we're putting safety at the heart of everything we do. with a single tap, we're giving you new ways to let loved ones know you're on your way. uber has new leadership, a new vision

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in december, 2015, netflix released "making a murderer" and it ignited a bonfire over the convictions of avery and dassey. now many viewers believe the claims avery had been making all along, that he was framed by law enforcement. >> who would want to set you up in something like this? >> the only thing i can think of it manitowoc county with the money, so they wouldn't have to pay nothing out. >> did they plant evidence? sure they did. >> kim is avery's cousin. she said she predicted something bad might happen to him after he was exonerated in the rape case. he had recently filed a lawsuit against his local sheriff's department for his wrongful conviction.

>> i did tell him, manitowoc wasn't done with him. >> why did you tell him that? >> something told me they weren't going to hand steve avery $36 million or any kind of money, that they were going to be watching him and look what happened. >> avery settled that lawsuit for $400,000 before his trial. the county did not acknowledge any wrongdoing. he used the money to hire his defense attorneys, dean strang, and jerry butting. >> we knew going in it was going to be a difficult defense. >> we spoke to butting in early 2016. >> we had a very tough defense in this case, because nobody wants to try and use as a defense that the police deliberately tried to plant evidence or frame somebody. >> it goes against society. those people are there to help us, they're the police. >> right. but it's where we thought the evidence pointed. >> avery's attorneys believed the fact that officers from the

county he was suing were part of the search, made for a huge conflict of interest and for possible mischief at the crime scene. >> what i can say from the evidence i've looked at, i think he was innocent, is innocent. >> preparing for trial, butting learned about a vial of avery's blood left over from his overturned rape conviction which had been sitting in the county clerk's office. >> and saw that there was still a styrofoam box that had been slit open with evidence tape. >> that's really the big a-ha moment? >> yeah, it was. >> and for many viewers, it was the a-ha moment in "making a murderer." >> a little tiny hole. the attorneys theorize that someone could have poked a hole in that vial and spread avery's blood inside teresa's suv. >> as for her car key? >> and your theory is that the key was planted in the residence? >> that is where we thought the evidence was pointing. >> by the police? >> by someone.

wee it was not found in six or seven entries into the trailers. we're talking about a trailer. it didn't add up. >> co-lead investigator tom fassbender worked with local sheriff's deputies but was employed by a different agency -- the wisconsin department of justice. this is the first time he's responded publicly to the accusations against him and his law enforcement colleagues. >> did you have any kind of vendetta against steven avery? >> absolutely not. i didn't know steven avery, didn't know his family. never been there. >> fassbender bristles at the idea the local investigators could have done anything unethical. >> the people that were there that i worked with were hard-working. they only wanted to do the right thing and to do this investigation the right way. >> is it possible that that blood could have been planted? >> no. everything, all the evidence says no. >> fassbender notes that a chemical called edta had been used to preserve avery's blood in the vial.

and that at trial, tests showed no presence of avery's blood found in the suv. >> it didn't match. >> fassbender's argument, since that blood found in the vehicle didn't contain the chemical, it couldn't have come from the vial. and he notes that a nurse was prepared to testify she had made that hole in the vial as part of her usual routine when she drew blood from avery. >> so the fact that there was a hole in the top of the vial is normal. >> and regarding teresa's car key, not found until the seventh search of avery's trailer -- >> why was that key missed during the other searches? >> primarily because of where it was located in a small bookcase that wasn't searched. if it was, it was kind of looked at. >> why not do the thorough search earlier? >> i guess part of it is because we didn't lock and load on steven avery. we went in there, did that first search, but we had 12 more buildings and four more

residences to search. so we had a lot to do. >> still, it wasn't just when the key was found that has avery supporters skeptical. it's who found it. these two men. lieutenant james lenk and sergeant andrew colburn of the manitowoc sheriff's department. turned out, they had just been deposed in avery's lawsuit. >> well, they were deposed, that we later found out. >> do you think that maybe just them by nature, being with manitowoc that maybe they shouldn't have been in there at all just to avoid all of this speculation? >> it's easy to arm chair quarterback and second guess. i think we would have done that maybe if we had the resources. but you're talking about a small, rural county, being assisted by another smaller rural county. you need resources. >> steven avery says these guys had it out for me. that whole department was angry at me. this was the perfect opportunity for them to have access to my trailer, plant the key. >> i never absolutely saw that. never saw that from anyone in

manitowoc county. >> fassbender says he believes a conspiracy to frame avery would have been virtually impossible to carry out. >> i could go on and on about the planting defense and how absurd it is, with the multiple agencies that we had in there. >> i'm your friend right now. >> but it was that video of brendan dassey which would really put fassbender at the center of the storm. an interrogation so controversial it might get avery's nephew out of prison. >> how much of brendan dassey's confession was true? coming up -- >> those officers wanted that information in the worst way, and they got it in the worst way. >> when "dateline" continues. sorry, can i get in there? oh, yeah. sure. except, you know what? it's all about image. it's like so true. you know what i mean? except, you know what? it's al[ grunng ]age. the moment you realize a good back yard party requires a good backyard. at lowe's we have everything you need to create

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hi, richard lui with top stories. they consider two bills on

immigration. coming ago republicans face criticism over the policies separating parents and children coming across the border. eight people have been injured after a taxi crashed into pedestrians on a moscow sidewalk. that driver in the crash has been detained, police saying it appears he lost control of the cab. for now, back to "dateline." welcome back to "dateline." i'm craig melvin. investigators deny they framed steven avery for the murder of teresa halbach. after all, his nephew, brendan, confessed. but did he tell detectives the truth or what he thought they wanted to hear? here with more of our story is andrea canning. >> all the renewed attention in the steven avery saga has shed light on the other defendant in the case -- brendan dassey. the teenager had been convicted of re and murderbut to his family, none of it ever made any sense.

>> and brendan someone capable of rape? >> no. no. i don't even think he knew what that was at the time. >> in 2008, attorneys took up dassey's case for his appeal. they saw a mentally challenged teen with a low iq. >> how do you spell garage? >> g-a-r-a-g-e. >> what did you think of brendan dassey when you were able to meet him in person? >> brendan is a simple soul. i was struck by his humanity. this is not somebody i could see committing a crime like that. >> that's the psychological power of interrogation. >> the two attorneys are based at the northwestern school of law outside chicago. they've worked to free a number of wrongfully convicted defendants and say what they learned about dassey's case astounded them. >> nobody was in brendan dassey's corner at the moment he needed help the most. >> beginning, they say, with this man. >> gimme one word to describe len kachinsky. >> unbelievable.

>> unconscionable. >> he came on board to defend dassey. they discovered he had made legal mistakes that caused him to be removed from the case. he's faced online vitriol from supporters of dassey. >> is it okay if i read you some of the comments? >> sure, go ahead. >> disgusting human being. disgrace to the wisconsin judicial system, a man with a sickened soul. >> i've seen it. >> in one instance, kachinsky, working to cut a plea deal, had arranged for his client to speak with investigators, but kachinsky himself didn't show up. >> that was clearly a mistake. >> this is huge, though. >> i agree. >> you have a 16-year-old kid with a low iq, with no attorney present, no parent. it's kinda like feeding someone to the wolves in a way. would you apologize to brendan dassey?

>> well, i'd apologize to him for not being at that interview. >> so there were mistakes made? >> sure, there were mistakes, but none of them contributed to the verdict in dassey's case. >> there are people whsagree with that. >> oh, sure. >> but as dassey's attorneys delve further into the stunning statements the teen made, they came to believe something more disturbing -- that investigators tom fassbender and mark wiegert had coerced the teen into making a false confession. >> these officers took advantage of a disabled youth and got him to say what they wanted him to say. >> don't lie to us now, okay? come on. what happened there. >> just hurting yourself if you lie now. >> he's got severe learning disabilities, inability to respond in narrative-type answers. and they're in precisely the areas that make him vulnerable to the kind of tactics the

officers used in this case. >> the attorneys say the investigators manipulated with coaxing statements like these from fassbender who was seated just off-camera. >> i'm your friend right now. it's all right. you are doing the right thing. >> they should never have made those kinds of suggestions, that they wanted to comfort him. that all would be well. those kinds of tactics when used on a kid like brendan are a recipe for false confessions. >> and they say the investigators manipulation of the teen escalated far beyond simple coaxing. >> the officers needed brendan to provide information that only the real killer would know. and they knew what they wanted him to say. they accused the investigators of planting details about the crime in dassey's mind, to get the answers they wanted. for example, remember steven avery's dna found on the car hood latch? the attorneys say investigators

asked dassey leading questions to confirm that his uncle had looked under the hood of the car? >> did he raise the hood at all or anything like that, to do something to the car? >> yeah. >> what did he do under the hood, if that's what he did? >> i don't know what he did, but i know he went under. >> and dassey's attorney say in that same interview, the investigators used another crucial detail they learned from the case from the forensics. >> tell us what else did you do, something with the head. >> they had received a report from the wisconsin crime lab, indicating for the first time, how teresa halbach had died. she had been shot in the head. they worked extremely hard to get brendan to say that. >> we have the evidence, brendan. we just need you to be honest with us. >> they cut off her hair. >> what else was done to her head?

>> that he punched her. >> what else? it's okay. >> cut her. >> what else happened to her, in her head? >> extremely, extremely important you tell us this. for us to believe you. >> come on, brendan. what else? >> that's all i can remember. >> all right, i'm just gonna come out and ask you, who shot her in the head? >> he did. >> why didn't you tell us that? >> because i couldn't think of it. >> those officers wanted that information in the worst way, and they got it in the worst way. by feeding it straight to brendan dassey. >> even they know that that's bad police practice. >> then they discovered something at the end of that interview which was a revelation to them, something jurors in his trial never heard. dassey speaking to his mother. >> i never did nothing.

>> did you? >> not really. >> what do you mean, not really? >> at the first moment that brendan gets outside the influence of those interrogators, he says, nope, this is not true, they got to my head. >> but tom fassbender, the interrogator himself sees it all very differently. >> coming up -- >> this was seen by many as a false confession. >> i feel it was a real confession. he knew right from wrong. brendan was involved in this. >> when "dateline" continues. ♪ protect your pet with the #1 name in flea and tick protection. frontline plus. trusted by vets for nearly 20 years.

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for his interrogation of brendan dassey, now seen by millions, tom fassbender has come under fire in court and online. >> this was seen by many as a false confession. do you see it as a false confession or a real confession? >> i feel it was a real confession. >> were you ever trying to extract a false confession from him? >> absolutely not. >> fassbender denies that his expressions of sympathy for dassey were manipulative. >> i legitimately was concerned for him. that wasn't staged, that wasn't strategy. >> why do you think people took it the other way, the more sinister way? that you were taking advantage

of him? >> i think that's easy to do. fr- it's a cynical approach, so tspeak, wchg tv, watching movies, how cops are depicted on those movies, trying to trick people into saying stuff. everything about the interview with brendan was soft, was comfortable. >> but comfortable might not be a word dassey's supporters would use, especially given his age and intelligence level. >> what about his iq? because when you watch him, you can tell that he has a lower iq. >> i don't -- i don't assess iqs. >> could you tell that he maybe wasn't like other boys his age? >> more socially probably. i don't know how to cross the iq social line, but he could think and he knew right from wrong. >> is it possible that he's easily manipulated? >> it's possible. >> he sounded confused at times. >> quite possibly. >> he didn't know what was up and down.

i don't know, just watching it. >> i don't know about that. >> my thought is, he had a million things going on in his head at that time. >> fassbender resists charges that he and his partner inappropriately planted ideas in dassey's head, like in that exchange about the hood latch. >> what did he do under the hood, if that's what he did? >> what did brendan say? >> he agreed that steven had gone under there. >> you used word agreed. >> yeah. >> so you brought it up first. >> i believe so. >> that's one of the areas that you came under fire for. >> yes. >> that you were planting things in his mind. >> yes, that's what they said. and there were instances that we did ask him specifically about things, yes. and that can happen in an interview. >> can we take that as a reliable answer given how it was spoon-fed to them. >> their side would argue no. and i would say, based on the

entirety of the interview, i would say yes. >> and as for the other moment that has angered so many followers of the case. >> i'm going to come out and ask you, who shot her in the head? >> he did. >> any regrets about that? bringing it up yourselves, about putting that in his head? >> there's always things that you can improve on. there were instances because of brendan's personality that, yeah, we had to talk to him about and ask more specifically certain questions. and it happens. >> what do you say to those people who have made you part of this big discussion about false confessions and who are yelling at their tvs because they didn't like the job that you did? >> just that it's easy to arm chair quarterback. it's easy to second-guess. that i -- that's partly why i'm here, to explain that there was nothing nefarious done. >> but even fassbender wonders if everything dassey said in the confession was true.

>> we didn't try to manipulate brendan. we tried to get at the truth. and i don't believe that it was a false confession. are therparts of it that he i don't know. you know, i just don't know. >> in august of 2016, a federal judge weighed in with a bombshell. in response to a brief filed by dassey's attorneys, judge william duffin ruled that brendan dassey's confession was involuntary. with that, the judge overturned his conviction and ordered dassey to be released from prison. >> what was that like for you, hearing that news? >> mixed emotions. i know we did everything above board, that one magistrate rules that it isn't fine, in his opinion, which is all right.

because that's the system. >> are you okay if he walks free? >> i'm not okay if the family's not okay. i believe brendan was involved in this. that he was there and he was involved in it. >> the wisconsin attorney general also believes brendan was involved in teresa's murder. he appealed the judge's order for release, asking a full panel of federal judges to review the case. in september of 2017, that request was granted. the seventh circuit u.s. court of appeals heard arguments about whether dassey's confession was coerced. nine weeks later, the seven-judge panel ruled that his confession was voluntary, meaning the young man will remain in prison. dassey's lawyers have vowed to appeal the decision to the u.s. supreme court. >> coming up -- >> he told me to watch "dateline." >> how a 6-year-old "dateline" led to a brand-new attorney.

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as brendan dassey awaits his fate, they hope for good news in his case. >> very gentle and loving. >> his long time friend and one time fiance, convinced of his

innocence, she said she searched for years to find the right attorney to take on his my indicated case. avery told her to watch "dateline". >> he heard there was going to be a ryan ferguson case on "dateline" and told me to watch it just to see the lawyer. >> that program from august of 2011 told the story of ryan ferguson, a young man sitting in prison for a murder he said he didn't commit. attorney kathleen zellner was determined to get him out. >> nothing is as riveting as this. when the trial has been lost and everybody has been lost and you have somebody they are innocent. it's the ultimate challenge i think. >> that's the woman that's going to get stephen out of prison. >> she specializes in wrongful conviction cases and said she freed 18 defendants including ryan ferguson. sandy contacted her and she joined the case not long after making a murderer came out. we caught up with zelner at the

correctional institute when she paid a visit to avery in 2016. >> do you think you have new evidence that could free stephen avery? >> we do, yeah. >> zelner invited "date line" into the war courtroroom she cr dedicated to the avery case. >> we know if that was tested? >> sthe even showed this rav 4 she bought to get a better understanding of theresa's vehicle. in august of 2016, to much media fan fare, she found a motion for new evidence. >> we'll find out one way or the other, was the evidence planted. >> kathleen zelner is known as an aggressive defense attorney. >> ari melber chief legal correspondent for msnbc. >> looking for new evidence to argue the entire case was done the wrong way. she's base beingally trying to put the state on trial. >> in her 45-page legal motion, zelner attacks law enforcement and tries to poke holes in the

prosecution's case and raises new questions. >> she notes that theresa's cell phone pinged off a tower 13 miles away later that day, suggesting maybe she left there alive. there's also indications that other people not from law enforcement entered the property during the investigation, raising the prospect of other potential suspects. . >> and she's won an early round. in november of 2016, a judge grant the her access to some of the evidence so her experts could perform new forensic tests, including more advanced testing on avery's blood from the rav 4. in june, 2017, zelner filed a motion requesting a new trial for avery. in a statement, she told "dateline." we will be able to demonstrate exactly how the evidence was planted in the early part of the investigation. avery, she insists was framed for a crime he did not commit.

but in october, a wisconsin circuit court denied that request. zelner petitioned the judge's ruling to the wisconsin court of appeals. in may of 2018, zelner also asked the court to consider new evidence in the case. material she claimed the prosecution had previously withheld. in june, the appeals court order the circuit judge to review the suppression of evidence claim. >> as for former prosecutor ken krats and the new book, zelner dismisses his claims about treatment of women and intere interactions with theresa. saying there was no proof mr. avery was obsessed and that rehashing a story about inadmissible evidence seems pointle pointless. zelner also notes, mr. kratz has no qualifications which would allow him to diagnose mr. avery as a psychopath. he has never been diagnosed as a psychopath. kratz who prosecuted stephen

avery and brendan dassey said he's undaunted. >> are you afraid of kathleen? >> no, i'm not involved in the case anymore. i shouldn't be afraid of anything. my involvement -- >> she could -- she could unravel your work if what she's sayi has some weight to it. you don't think she has a chance. >> i don't. >> if she's so confident, why are you so confident zm. >> we spent 18 months putting this case together. this wasn't just thrown together. it wasn't a bunch of keystone cops, it was done very professionally and very well. >> kratz does have personal regrets. in his book he admits to past prescription drug abuse and says he's ashamed he sent sexually suggestive texts to a domestic violence victim two years after the trial, a scandal which led to his resignation. he still takes issue with "making a murderer" he's moving on with his life and new girlfriend. >> i'm hoping this book will

change the narrative. >> mean while, avery continues to fight and brendan dassey waits for the supreme court to decide if his appeal goes forward. with the talk of guilt or innocence, trials or retrials, kim peterson says the person being forgotten is her friend, theresa. >> she is the reason why we're even talking about this and she just deserves to be remembered. >> i love hugs. >> for her memories, kim says she goes back to this grainy video diary she made three years before she died. it was played at avery's sentencing. >> i love taking pictures. i love holding camera in my hand. >> it gives me the chills every time i hear it because she talked about everything she loved. >> is there anything you would say to theresa right now if she could hear you? >> just that you're still in my heart and i'll never forget you. >> i just want to know, i want

people i love to know whenever i die, that i was happy. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline", i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. >> a very good morning to you, i'm richard liu here in new york city. here's what's happening. zero tolerance blowback. president trump falsely repeating claims that democrats are behind the separation of migrant families at the border. >> shame on america. shame on donald trump and shame on jeff sessions and any of these republicans who are kplis it in this behavior. >> new questions whether the outcry of the policy will backfire on republicans. prepared for war. a new report says while robert mueller prepares to wrap up his