good morning, coming up on your business, these twins created a sneaker that gives you more balance but they were banned from the nba. find out how they used that to their advantage. father and daughter team on how to run a family business together and without conflict. and these happy sheep in montana are helping a small apart company compete with the big brands. when it comes it making choices for your business, we have your back. coming up next on "your business." ♪ >> sponsored by american

express. don't do business without it. ♪ >> sponsored by american express. don't do business without it. hi there, everyone. welcome to "your business" the show dedicated to helping your growing business. when you're just starting out or launching something new, identifying the target market is a crucial step of course. so, imagine what it would be like if right after launch you found out that the core of your potential customer base is all of a sudden banned from using your product? that kind of blow would be impossible for a lot to bounce back from but not for the owners ever apl shoes, they are rebounding skills didn't just keep them afloat but made their business fly higher than they could have ever imagined. >> in june of 2010, identical

twins ryan and adam goldstone launched what they thought would be the ultimate basketball shoe, one that could actually make you jump higher. they believed every nba player would be running after a pair of their apl shoes. but in octoberf that same year, they got what seemed like the worst news they could have imagined. >> they said they were banning the shoes because they provided an undue competitive advantage. >> the they they were talking about is the nba and then commissioner david stern. >> that was a super hard moment and at that moment you have to make a decision whether you're going to push through or call it quits. >> the unexpected decision changed everything for apl which stands for athletic propulsion labs. the brothers new they upped the game with technical innovation and athletic footwear but the plan hinged on getting well known players to wear them on the hardwood. >> we wanted to create products for high level athletes but

because of the nba ban, it made it so that wasn't possible for them to wear the product. >> the game suddenly had changed and they needed to act fast with a new plan. >> the first priority, they needed a positive spin to the story. so they hired a pr team. >> i said i thinwee a pretty b story and don't know what to do. we put out a press release. >> overnight it became the ban heard around the world. >> a million articles posted in ten days. instead of having to go to somebody and say we need you to endorse our product, the greatest basketball league in the world and most prominent said they are too good to be worn in our league and puts the wearers at the competitive advantage over their opponents if they are wearing our products. adam and ryan quickly overcame the first big hurdle but the sudden spotlight and huge demand for shoe s septembe a slew of fast moving hurdles their way. >> our site crashed for eight hours. >> technical issues were short

lived but the i am pablmpact fr explosive sales was not. >> nine months of inventory in ten days. >> that's going to be huge. >> three-day wind fall made fulfilling orders moving forward almostposs. >> when you sell out of product, people start to lose momentum or energy. >> the pair had to act fast in order to keep the masses hungry for apl. >> after we sold out, we could capture the people's information that wanted the product and build wait lists and send e-m blasts. if you can try to keep them top of mind, so they know you're thinking of them but also wanted to make sure that people were still thinking about apl, still thinking about our concept on shoes. so that when the time came for them to get basketball shoes an we had the product, we were the ultimate destination. >> the twins realized early on that when navigating through challenging times, eliminating a motion from a problem is key. >> it's not smooth sailing all the time. the way you react in those moments where everything isn't going perfect, that will set the

tone for everybody else. you have to put the emotion aside and look at things rationally and take the emotional aspect out of it. >> another valuable lesson, never ever overpromise to your customer. >> as a business, we are very careful with our words. it's better to overdeliver than overpromise. we try to overdeliver on our promises and never overpromise and underdeliver. >> in just over seven years, ryan and adam have made apl a force to be reccened with in the athletic shoe industry. it is sold online and more than 300 luxury stores around the world. >> we've been able to triple our business, year over year for the past three years. >> and recently, they celebrated a coveted partnership with giant lululemon. >> the thing i get the most excited about, pushing the limit and seeing how far we can possibly go in these ideas that we have now and then to see us

execute them on a very, very high level. that's what i get excited about. >> we've had honestly truly life changing experiences and moments and in my wildest dreams i ko d couldn't have imagined. when you see people who have bought the product and wearing it on the streets, to me that's the number one. >> i'm here in new orleans at the collisi conference where 25,000 people have come to find out what is new going on in tech. and i'm sitting here right now with john hall, the ceo of influence and author of "top of mind." so good to see you. >> pleasure to be here. >> i love the topic of your book, which is how do you stay top of mind? it's what all of us as business owners want to do. >> yeah, absolutely. >> you've dug into that. talk to me about -- i might meet you and think, influence, amazing, want to hire you haen then leave and forget about you.

>> there's so many trust issues in life, being top of mind is so important. as you build trust those barriers decrease and opportunity comes to you. for me i became obsessed with this because i want people to trust me and to engage with me and opportunity to come that fits well with what i can offer them. >> and it's not even just trust, it's also simply when you need something you need it right then. the last person who came up to you who offers that, that might the person you work with. let's take a real example. let's say i'm a party planning business, right? >> yep. >> i meet lots of people all the time and meet them at parties and conferences and meet them everywhere. how do i stay top of mind? >> the whole goal is moving from short term to long term memory. there's a couple of things to do. one, you can do consistent trust points, staying in touch over time with a newsletter going to be a touch point with a reminder you exist. simple things to keep in touch will move you slowly from short term to long term memory. >> so newsletter is easy, you

get everyone's e-mail and send it out. what other kind do you have? >> you can do a variety. i write different publications so i have a media platform i scaled over time but for others it could be as simple as a touch point of sending an e-mail, a text. for me, we just did a study of - just 20 different people we studied on what makes you more engaged in a relationship that it actually matters. the number one reason, simply staying in touch in a meaningful way. it's the people who just connected, like you meet somebody. i liked you, you were engaging when i sat down. it's stay in touch, i'll send an e-mail saying jj, i hope things are going well. i'll have a note and put it in a document and reminds me to send that nice note. i want to consistent engage you and i'm sure when something comes up in the future, wow, i need a guest, who should i call? you might think of me because i'm sticking with you more and going to be top of mind in that moment. >> you have these one kind of newsletter touch points which are or just checking in then

these other when someone needs you, be there for them. what else can you do? >> if i was a small business owner or anybody scaling a business, map it out, what are the things -- different ways i can engage someone? there's obviously one on one conversation but it's hard to scale. i could have lunch with you once a month or every other month. i can't scale that to thousands or millions and if someone is trying to reach a mass amount of people and engage them, you have to learn how to scale that. you have important relationships you have the meaningful touch points in person and then you have things where you're creating content and that could be in the newsletter and could be social. for example, i didn't like twitter at all. did not like twitter or a lot of the social profiles and it's crazy for the company i actually run. however, i knew it was an eng e engaging way to have these touch points. now i'm a little more engaged. i didn't start off on doing 20 tweets a day but eased into it. i looked at social and said what step can i move forward to have a touch point there.

>> your point is you just have to be in front of people's faces. >> you do. >> i think about this all the time then we'll have to end this. but when you go to a conference and don't know anyone and you're new, the first time you feel a little uncomfortable and shy. the second time you talk tohe person you spoke to the first time. the third time you're the old pro there and you know everyone and feel comfortable. i think that's what you're getting at. which is if you kind of keep going up, you become part of this and people trust you and become top of mind. >> if i leave you with one thing, content triggering, it's something i always leave people with. it's what -- it's a spark of all of this, listen to people. when you find something engaging and see a smile on your face or engaged in some way or something you didn't like that i had to reexplain, you're like that makes sense, that's a content trigger. go back and put that -- write that down and put it in a knowledge bank or note and it's going to make you a better listener but two it's going to help you understand what content

should you distribute. what's really important to the audience that matters to you and it's a spark. as you get better at that. it's going to be easier to get the confront in front of the right people at the right time. >> such a pleasure to talk to you. hope you have a great conference. >> thank you. >> in the hilly fields of montana, happy sheep rome free. a family herds them and uses the wool for a sheep to sherlf apparel line going up against big brands. >> there's a part of montana that has a name but it's not exactly on anyone's beaten path. it's called the beaver head deer log national forest and if you are a sheep and it's summertime, this is your happy place. >> how happy are the sheep? >> they are very happy. this is exactly what they would love to do. it's actually funny, when we're in the lower elevations, if you leave them alone they'll come up here on their own. >> really? >> green grass, lots of mountain

flowers, perfect for sheep. they love it. >> evan's family has run sheep in montana for 100 years or so. >> what does it feel like to be doing the same kind of work that your father has done and father's father and his father? >> it feels great. carrying on tradition is really important. you know, what they saw back then is exactly what we're seeing now, taking care of the land and that's our job. >> the sheep graze on public land but are constantly moved to ensure against overgrazing. >> we were mesmerized and delighted by the dogs. watching dogs work sheep across a meadow is a sight to behold. the border kollys keep the sheep in order. and the big dogs keep predators away. >> they help protect thehe against coyotes and wolves and bear. they'll bark at it and it turns around. it's a sim bee i don't thinkic way to go about it. >> mondtana was once home to

millions of heads of sheep now down to a couple thousand. the wool clothing business went oversees but they see that as an opportunity. their company, duckworth, raising the sheep and sheers the wool and looms it and sews it, all in the u.s. >> is this a sort of kind of a farm to table version of -- >> exactly, sheep to shelf. we always sold our wool into the commodities type market and you know, once it goes into that market, you don't know where it goes and don't see the finished product. it's been a dream of ours to see that finished product that we actually grew on our ranch. >> but buyer be wear, their apparel isn't cheap. >> how much is that shirt? >> it is $65. >> $65. >> uh-huh. >> you know, for most people in america, thinking about buying a $65 t-shirt is a decision. >> uh-huh. >> or no decision. >> well, i like to say this is buying gear.

so this is going to last a very long time and it's also going to perform like high performance gear. it's not just any t-shirt. >> thanks to these happy sheep, duckworth is growing. their aim, to keep with a pat goen yas and north faces of the world. >> you feel like david and goliath sometimes? >> sometimes. david won, right? >> harry smith, montana. >> we have launched the second season of our podcast, been there, built that and this week we're talking to ali webb. she talked to us how she went from stay-at-home mom to creating this multimillion dollar franchise and about the relationship with her brother and her husband who both worked at the company. i hope you have a chance to listen and please give feedback. podcast is pretty new. and so we love hearing what you think. go and listen for free to been

there, built that on tune in or wherever you get your podcasts. >> for some people entrepreneurship is in their blood. both my grandfathers started companies and my mom and dad were each entrepreneurs and i co-founded my business with my brother. danielle town was a practicing attorney completely indifferent to what her father did until she decided she wanted more control over her life and money and she turned to dad for help. danielle along with phil details her journey in "invested" father and daughter also collaborate on invested rule number one podcast. good to see you both. as your dad was on the show, so good to have you on too. >> it's wonderful to be here. >> i want to know what it is like as a father or parent to bring a kid into your business. i think a lot of our viewers would like to know and you guys

have started kind of an offchute of the business you've been running for years x. yes, a brand extension we're putting into our business. it's a mixed blessing a little bit. you have -- a little bit concerned that it wouldn't be a -- you really want your -- t p be happy. step gently in that and make sure there's a connection, there's something that we're going to do that really turns her on. >> my dad didn't want to start to do our podcast. i had to explain what a podcast was and then i showed it to him an he said okay, but what are we really talking about? we sat together on the couch and talked about investing and we went on for half an hour and finally he goes, we got to record this. this is fantastic. >> so for you guys, it was -- you waded into this. the podcast came first. you didn't say full -- we're going to go and build a

business? it was more let's just -- we try this out, if it works, then we can move on from there? >> right, i wanted her to find her own life, right? she's a terrific attorney. and i think that actually helps that she went out and got a career before we got into this because she's bringing something to it, her own knowledge and skillset. >> how do you step out of the role of daughter? particularly because much of what this is built around is the idea of you being the daughter, right and learning about investing and talking about your relationship? >> yes. >> all of the ups and downs. >> yes. >> how do you as then a business owner step out of that role and become co-founder, right or owner/adviser? >> i don't think i do. i think our relationship as father and daughter, it's been really extraordinary experience to learn to respect each other in that role of partner collaborator and co-podcast host and at the same time, find kind of a deeper relationship in our

father/daughter relationship. so we always come to it as like our relationship comes first and the rest of it is a wonderful way to get to know each other even better and differently than we otherwise would even be able to. >> do you disagree ever? >> oh, yeah. >> what do you do when that happens? >> it's the basis of our company, actually. >> when we wrote this book, we would yell at each other on the phone over somebody deleting somebody else's edits. you could imagine. >> or in the podcast, we started off with the idea -- i did, that i would be teaching my daughter. that would be the business -- >> didn't occur she would be teaching you. >> did not occur that was not even entering my mind at all. and the fact that she was pushing back was such a surprise actually. because i really know my stuff, i think. right? it's my business, i know what i'm doing. i'm going to lay it out there. i'm the mentor. she's puring back on some of my favorite things. what i started to realize, is

two things. number one, maybe i didn't know as deeply as i thought i did and she was opening up areas i should have explored deeper. and second that she was teaching me some things about my own business, my own practice of investing that i actually -- i was doing but i never really recognized how important they were. one example of that, she found that practice shares or buying a bit of company to get started was something really valuable. and i was like, you don't want to do that. that's ridiculous, you should do all of the work first. >> told mel it was the dumbest idea ever. >> dumbest idea. how do we resolve things? we talk about it. i think we have a deep enough respect for each other that we know we're both on the same page ultimately. and both are going for the same goal and that is supporting each other. and so we just really like kind of work it out through chatting about things. >> yeah, actually, that's how it works. and i think -- >> she does not defer very well

in my opinion. >> but that's helpful it sounds like. >> she should defer. >> uh-huh. >> but actually, it's made the business better. that's huge. >> i think that's huge. for anyone who wants to know, your podcast and the book really detail not only investment strategies, but also your relationship. i think there's so much to learn from both of those things. thank you both for stopping by. good to see you both. >> thanks, j.j. balances life between your work deadlines, social calendars and family commitments can take an emotional 208, so here are five foods that can combat the stress levels. one is avocado. put a few slices in your salad or sandwich and you're good to go. two, blueberries, the

antioxidants actually help improve your body's response to stress and increase your immunity. it's easy to throw some in your olympic immediate or yogurt. three, cashews, a senate snack. low levels of zinc are linked to anxiety and depression. and since our bodies can't store it, it's important to get it every day. four, chamomile tea. your mom probably gave this to you before bedtime to calm you down. she was right. it's known for reducing stress and anxiety. five, dark chocolate. there's no better excuse that is to have some chocolate than being stressed out. it causes the walls of your blood vessels to relax. when we come back, an owners' conflict, stepping in to help his employees on let them figure things out yourself. and what you need to know

about health care changes for next year. the line between work and life hasn't just blurred. it's gone. that's why you need someone behind you. not just a card. an entire support system. whether visiting the airport lounge to catch up on what's really important. or even using those hard-earned points to squeeze in a little family time. no one has your back like american express. so no matter where you're going... we're right there with you. the powerful backing of american express. don't do business without it. don't live life without it. so how much time do you spend teaching and coaching your employ employees versus letting

them figure it on their own? >> the time i spend is up front, hiring people who are resourceful. in a growing ne, you need need people who can figure it out. how do you give them familybad? how often? how do you communicate where you were and keep people in your snowe your coaching is the model of the behavior, but you need to spend time finding folks who can figure it out for themselves. we now have the top two tips you need to now. gene marks is the head of the marks gerut and columnist for "the washington post." mike shah perioda is ceo of tape into.net. so good to see you both. i've been trying to get you on the show for two years, mike. you have a law background, a

business background, and i've been watching you from afar. i would love to know one thing you have done right. >> key to our success is being persistent without being annoying. i think it's really important when you're dealing with clients and customers that oftentimes they're note ready to make a decision, or they need more time to think about it. it's important to stay in touch and foul up without being annoying. >> everyone has different points where someone becomes annoying. how do you gauge, okay, now i've crossed over? >> i think if you're reaching out too frickly or too aggressively, then you cross the line. i think in any business it's about relationships. >> so is it just a feel you get.

. so this person i might reap out to every month? >> and base odd their response to you. you can tell what i call hot, warm or cold. if they're cold, you might reach out once ary year. but if they're thought reach out you have two, three weeks. >> is it like to have a database? >> some people are old school where you have a paper planner. other people keep spread sheets and database. >> i put it in my calendar. when i started good shop, there was one nonprofit that wouldn't work with us, and you put somebody in my calendar every six months to say go reach out for them. after three years, they finally signed up.

gene, i've been getting e-mails so you're very good about this. >> one of the things we've been talking about is health insurance, right? this year is going to have is going to be effective this year, because it's past conversations, a commenting period. so an association health plan is for any employer, what they can do is form their own association, and it can be like-minded the key is if you get more than 100 peach then you're not subject to some of the morse onerous rules of the

affordable care act, which means you can start excluding things. i'm not saying that's good, by the way. it's an option. >> so do i need to make a relationship myself with other businesses or are there brokers out there starting to pet together associations. >> first of all, you can dot yourself. you guys can form your own associations, depending on who you know and what businesses are like-minded. >> then does someone have to administer it? >> yes. you can go to a broker or go directly to health insurance companies and oyou negotiate for the best insurance plans, because you're dealing with a urge laer buying group, they can negotiate back with you. >> got it. >> it's an option. it's a good thing. some of your employees might not be crazy if it excludes some benefits. >> but it's important for us to know what is out there and again something i found when i was looking for health insurance for

my employees, is incredibly complicated. thank you both so much. this week's #yourbizselfie. joseph is a marine corps veteran who started a business to provide training and safety measures to help promote responsible firearm for that ownership. we love hears from you, business owners and love, love seeing your picture. pick up a phone, take a selfie of you and your business and send it to yourself@msnbc.com, or tweet it with the hashtag. include your name, the name of your business, its location as and anything about your business you want to share. thank you for joining us. we love hearing you. to get you in touch -- you can also go to our website at

msnbc/your business. and then we put up move every single day, and of course remember to check out our podcast, for free on apple or wherever you get your podcasts. until next time, i'm j.j. ramberg, and remember, we make your business our business. it's pretty amazing out there. the world is full of more possibilities than ever before. and american express has your back every step of the way- whether it's the comfort of knowing help is just a call away with global assist. or getting financing to fund your business.

no one has your back like american express. so where ever you go. we're right there with you. the powerful backing of american express. don't do business without it. don't live life without it. good morning, and welcome to "politics nation." i wanted to start the show today by telling you what i think about the recent supreme court decision to uphold ohio's purge of inactive voters, and the very dangerous precedent it sets months out from this year's midterm elections. but then, just two days before father's day, attorney general jeff