good morning, everyone. coming up on msnbc's "your business," these twins created a sneaker that gives you better balance. but they were banned from the nba. father and daughter team phil and danielle on how to run a family business together and without conflict. and these happy sheep in montana are helping us a small apparel company compete with the big brands. when it comes to making choices for your business, we have your back. that's all coming up next on "your business."

hi there, everyone. imagine if right afteryour launch, you found out the core of your customer base is all of a sudden banned from your product. that is a lot to bounce back from. but not from the owners of apl shoes. they made their business fly higher than they could have ever imagined. >> in june of 2010, identical

twins ryan and adam goldstone launched what they thought would be the ultimate basketball shoe, one that could actually make you jump higher. they believed every nba player would be running after a pair of their apl shoes. but in october of that same year, they got what seemed like the worst news they could have imagined. >> they said they were banning the shoes because they provided undue competitive advantage. >> the "they" ryan is talking about is the nba and its then commissioner david stern. >> that was a super, super hard moment. that moment, you have to make the decision as to whether you're going to push through or you're going to call it quits. >> the unexpected decision changed everything for apl, which stands for athletic propulsion labs. the brothers new they had upped the game, but their marketing plan hinged heavily on getting well known players to wear them on the hardwood. >> we wanted to create products

for high level athletes, but obviously because of the nba ban, it made it so that was impact for nba players to wear the product. >> the game had changed and ryan and adam needed to act fact. the first priority, they needed a positive spin to the story so they hired a pr team. >> i said i think we have a pretty big story and we don't know what to do. we put out a press release. >> on overnight, it became the ban heard around the world. >> there was over a million articles posted in ten days. instead of having to go to somebody and say we need you to endorse our product, the greatest basketball league in the world and most prominent said these shoes are too good to be worn in our league and puts the wearers at a competitive advantage over their opponents if they're wearing our products. >> adam and ryan quickly overcame their first big hurdle, but the sudden global spotlight and huge demand for apl shoes sent a slew of fast moving new hurdles moving their way. >> our site crashed for eight hours.

>> the technical compact was short lived, but the rest was not. >> we sold nine months of inventory in three days. >> it made moving forward almost impossible. >> when you sell out of product, people start to lose momentum or energy. >> the pair had to act fast in order to keep the masses hungry for apl. >> after we sold out, the we can capture the people's information that we wanted the product, we could build wait lists. if you can try to keep them top of mind, but we wanted to make sure people were still thinking about apl, still thinking about our concept shoes so when the time came for them had to get b basketball shoes and we had the product, we were the ultimate destination. >> the twins realized early on that when navigating through challenges times, eliminating emotion from a problem is key. >> it's not smooth sailing all the time. in the way that you react in those moments where everything isn't going perfect, that will

set the tone for everybody else. you have to put the emotion aside and look at things rationally. you take the emotional aspect out of it. >> another valuable lesson, never, ever overpromise to your customer. >> as a business, we are very careful with our words. it's better to overdeliver than overpromise. we try to overdeliver on our proposals, not overpromise and underdeliver. >> i saw the swatch but i didn't see the shoe. >> in just over seven years, ryan and adam have made apl a force to be reckoned with in the athletic shoe industry. the brand is sold online and in more than 300 luxury stores around the world. sgr we've been able to triple our business year over year. >> and recently, they celebrated a coveted partnership with lululemon. >> the thing that i get the most excited about is pushing the limit and seeing how far we can possibly go in these idea that's we have now.

and then to see us execute them on a very, very high level. that's what i get excited about. we've had some honestly truly life changing experiences and moments. then in my wildest dreams, i couldn't have imagined. but when you see people that have bought the product and are wearing them on the streets, to me that's number one. >> i am here in new orleans at the collision conference where 25,000 people have come to find out what is new going on in tech. and i'm with john hall, ceo of influence and co and author of the new book "top of mind." so good to see you. >> it's a pleasure to be here. >> i love the.topic of your book, which is how do you stay top of mind, right? it's what all of us as business owners want to do. >> absolutely. >> and you've dug into that. so talk to me about -- but i might meet you and i think influence and co are brilliant.

i want to hire you. and i leave tomorrow and forget about it. >> so being top of mind is so important because as you build trust, those barriers decrease. an opportunity comes to you. so for me, i became obsessed with this because i want people to trust me. i want people to engage with me and i want opportunity to come that fits well with what i can offer them. >> and it's not even just trust. it is simply when you need something, you need it right then. and the last person who came up to you who with offers that, that might be the person you work with. let's take a real example. let's say i am a party planning business, right? >> yep. >> and i meet lots of people all the time. i meet them at parties. i meet them at conferences, i meet them everywhere. how do i stay top of mind? >> the whole goal is moving from short-term to long-term memory. one, you can do consistent trust touch points. that means staying in touch over time doing a newsletter or something can it be a trust point where you're reminded that they exist. simple things will start to move you slowly from short-term to

long-term memory. >> so news media is easy. what other touch points could you have? >> you can do a variety. for me, i write all over the place in different publications, so i have a media platform. for others, it could be as simple as a touch point of sending an e-mail, a text. for me, we just did a study of just 20 different people that we studied on what makes you more engaged in a relationship that it actually matters. the number one reason, it was 90% of the people said simply staying in touch in a meaningful way. so it's the people that just connected. you meet somebody, i liked you, you were engaging when you sat down. i will stay in touch. i'll send an e-mail even if it's new year and say, hey, j.j., i hope things are going well. i'll have a note because i want to consistently engage you. i'm sure when something comes up in the future and you're like, wow, i need a guest, who can i call? i'll be top of mind in that moment. >> so you have these one newsletter touch points that are

just checking in and the other when someone needs you be there for them. what else? >> if i was a small business owner or anybody scale ago business, map it out and say what are the different ways i can engage someone? so there's one-on-one conversation, but it's hard to scale. i could have contact with you once a month. i can't scale that to thousands or millions. if it's someone who is trying to reach a mass amount ooh people, y you have to learn how to scale that. for example, i didn't like twitter at all. i didn't even like a lot of the social profiles and it's crazy for the company that i actually run. however, i knew it was an engaging way to reach people and have these touch points. so now i'm a little more engaged. i didn't start off on doing like 20 tweets a day. but i slowly eased into it. so i looked at social and said what step can i move forward to have a touch point there.

>> so your point is, you just have to be in front of people's faces. right? >> you do. >> and, you know, i think about this all the time and then we're going to have to end this, but when you go to a conference and you don't know anyone and you're new, the first time, maybe, you feel a little uncomfortable and shy. the second time you talk to the person who you spoke to the first time. the third time, you're the old pro there and you know everyone and you feel more comfortable. and i think that's what you're getting at which is if you keep showing up, you become part of this and people trust you and you become top of mind. >> if i leave you with one thing, it's content triggering. the term content triggering is what i always leave people with. it's the spark of all of this. listen to people. when i see a smile on your face and see you engaged in some way, you're like, oh, that makes sense. that's a content trigger. go back, write that down. put it in a knowledge bank or a note and that's going to -- one, it's going to make you a better listener on what is engaging to people.

two, it helps you understand what content should you deliver. it's a spark and as you get better at that, it's going to be easier to get the content in front of the right people at the right time. >> so nice to talk to you. >> such a pleasure. >> and i hope you have a great conference. >> in the hilly fields of montana, happy sheep roam free. there a family herds them and uses the wool for a so-called sheep to shelf apparel line that's going up against some big brands. harry smith has their story. >> there is a part of montana that has a name, but it's not exactly on anyone's beaten path. it's called the beaver head deer lodge national forest. and if you are a sheep and it's summertime, this is your happy place. how happy are the sheep? >> near very happy. this is exactly what they would love to do. it's actually funny. when we're down in the lower elevations, if you leave them alone, they'll start coming up here on their own. >> really? korea. they love it up here.

green grass, lots of mountain flowers. that's perfect for sheep. they love it. >> ellen helly's family has run sheep in montana for a hundred years or so. >> what is it like to be doing the same work that your father has done, your father's father, his father? >> it feels great. carrying on the tradition is important. what they saw then is exactly what we see now. we're taking care of the sheep and that's our job. >> the sheep are grazing on public land, but are constantly moved to ensure there's no overgrazing. we were mesmerized by the dogs. watching dogs work sheep across a meadow is a sight to behold. the border colleys keep the sheep in order, and the big dogs keep predators away. >> they help protect the sheep against kieos, bears, if they see one, they'll bark at it and it turns around.

>> mon montana was once home to many sheep. duckworth raises the sheep, sheers the wool, looms it, and sews it, all in the u.s. >> is this a sort of kind of farm to table version of -- >> exactly. what we say is sheep to shelf. we always sold our wool into the commodities thyme type market. once it goes into that market, you don't really know where it goes. you never really see the finished product. it's always ban dream of ours to see that finished product that we actually grew on our ranch. >> but buyer beware. their apparel isn't cheap. >> how much is that shirt? >> this is $65. >> $65. >> uh-huh. >> for most people in america, thinking about buying a $65 t-shirt is a decision or no decision. >> right. well, i like to see this is buying gear.

so this is going to last you a very long time and it's also going to perform like high performance gear. it's not just any t-shirt. >> thanks to these happy sheep, duckworth is growing. their aim? to expedite with northfaces of the world. >> do you feel like david and goliath sometimes? >> sometimes. but, you know, david won, right? >> harry smith, montana. we have launched the second season of our pod cast been there built that and this week we're talking to alley web who is co-founder and ceo of the dry bar. she talked to us about how sme went from stay-at-home mom to creating this multi million dollar franchise and about the relationship with her brother and her husband who both work at the company. i hope you get a chance to listen to it. if you do, please give feedback. pod cast is still pretty new, as i tell you every week. so we love hearing what you think. go.

listen for free to been there built that on tune in or wherever you get your pod casts. for some people, entrepreneurship is in their blood. both my grandfathers started companies. my mom and my dad were each entrepreneurs and i go founded my business good shop with my brother. danielle is the founder of investor fill down. she was as practicing attorney completely indifferent to what they are father did until she decided she wanted more control over her life and mer money and she turned to dad for help. danielle along with dad details her journey in the new book "invested." father/and daughter both collaborate on their pod cast. i've been hearing before you for years. >> it's wonderful to be here. >> i want to know what it is like as a father or a parent to bring a kid into your business. right? because i think a lot of our viewers would love tour one of their kids be a part of their

business. and you guys have started kind of an off shoot of the business you've been running. >> it's a brand extension that we're putting into our business. and it is -- you know, it's a mixed blessing a little bit. i was a little bit concerned that it wouldn't be a good fit, right, because you really want your daughter to be happy. and i want to be happy. so you sort of step a little bit gently into that. and then make sure that there's a fit, that there's a connection, that there's something that we're going to do that really turns her on. >> my dad didn't even want to start to do our pod cast. first of all, i had to explain to him what a pod cast was. then i showed it to him and i said, but what would we really talk about? so we sat together on the couch for about ten minutes and talked about investing. and we went on for half an hour. and 2350i7finally he goes, we h record this. this is fantastic. >> so for you guys, you waded into this. so the pod cast came first. so you didn't say full, like, we're going to go and build a

business. >> right. >> it was more let's just -- we try this out. if it works, then we can move on from there. >> right. i wanted her to find her own life, right? and she's a terrific attorney. and i think that actually helps, that she went out and got a career before we got into this because she's really bringing something to it that is her own knowledge and her own skill set. >> how do you step out of the role of daughter, particularly because much of what this is built around is the idea of you being the daughter and learning from your dad about investing and talking about your relationship. >> yes. >> all of the ups and downs. >> yes. >> so how do you, as then a business owner, step out of that role and become co-founder, right, or owner/adviser? >> i don't think i do. i think our relationship as father and daughter, it's been really an extraordinary experience for us to learn to respect each other in that role of partner, collaborator, ko cowriter, copod cast host and at

the same time find a deeper relationship in our father-daughter relationship. so we always come to it as our relationship comes first and the rest of it is a wonderful way to get to know each other even better and differently than we otherwise would even be able to. >> do you disagree ever? >> oh, yeah. oh, yeah. >> what do you do when that happens? >> that's the basis of our company. >> when we wrote this book, we would yell at each other on the phone or somebody deleting somebody else's edits. >> yeah. or in the pod cast after we set it up with the idea, i set it up with the idea that i would be teaching my daughter, right? >> didn't occur to you that she would be teaching you. >> that was not even entering my mind at all. and the fact that she was pushing back was such a surprise, actually, because i really know my stuff, i think. right? it's my business. i know what i'm doing. so i'm going to lay it all out there. and the very ff ifrt thing that happened was she's pushing back on some of my favorite things.

what i started to realize is number one, maybe i didn't know as deeply as i thought i did and she was opening up areas that i should have explored deeper. second, she was teaching me some things about my own business, my own practice of investing that i actually -- i was doing, but i had never really recognized how important they were. one example of that is she found practice shares or buying a bit of a company to get started was something really valuable. and i was like, no, you don't want to do that. that's ridiculous. >> told me tilt was the dumbest idea he had ever heard. >> do you take everything personally, the two of you? >> i think we have a deep enough respect for each other that we know we're both on the same page ultimately. we both are going for the same goal and that is supporting each other. and so we just really, like, kind of work it out through chatting about things. >> yeah. actually, that's how it works. and i find she does not defer

very well, in my opinion. >> and that's -- but that's hopeful, it sounds like. >> she should defer. >> yeah, uh-huh. >> but, actually, it's made the business better. >> well -- >> that's huge. >> >> and i think that for anyone wants to know more, your podcast and the book really detail not only investment strategies but also your relationship. and i think there is so much to learn from both of those things. so thank you both for stopping by. so good to see you both. >> thank you. balancing life between your work deadlines, social calendars and family commitments can take an emotional toll on you. so here are five foods to help you combat stress levels. number one, of cad dose. heart-healthy fatty acids have been proven to stress-proof your body. two, blueberries. the antioxidants found in

blueberries help improve your body's response to stress and increase your immunity. it's easy to throw some in your oatmeal in the mornings. cashews is a great source of zinc. low levels of zinc are linked to anxiety and depression. it is important to get some every day. four, chamomile tea. your mom probably gave you this before bedtime to calm you down, and she was right. it relaxes muscles and reduceseer tablt. irritabilty. and next is dark chocolate. it causes the walls of blood vessels to relax and improves circulation. when we come back, an owner's conflict stepped in to help his employees or let them figure things out themselves. and what you need to know about

health insurance changes for next year. it's pretty amazing out there. the world is full of more possibilities than ever before. and american express has your back every step of the way- whether it's the comfort of knowing help is just a call away with global assist. or getting financing to fund your business. no one has your back like american express. so where ever you go. we're right there with you. the powerful backing of american express. don't do business without it. don't live life without it. so how much time do you spend teaching and coaching your employees versus letting them

figure it out on their own? >> so the time i spend is up front hiring people who are resourceful. because in a growing business, you need people who can figure it out for themselves. that's not to say you're not coaching but it is coming in the form of modeling the right behaviors. how do you give them feedback, how often do you give them feedback, how you communicate and keep people in the know. it is the modeling of the behaviors. you need to spend your time finding folks who can figure it out for themselves. we have the top two tips you need to know to help you grow your businesses. the head of the marks group and columnist for the "washington post". and a network of more than 70 franchise online papers. good to see you both. because you've done such a fascinating job growing your business. you have a law background,

business background. i have been watching you from a far. i would love to know one thing you have done work. >> well, i think kind of key to our success is being persistent without being annoying. i think that it's really important that when you're dealing with clients and customers that oftentimes they're not ready to make a decision or they're -- or they need more time to think about it. so it is important to stay in touch with the client and follow up without being annoying. >> how do you know? everyone has different points where someone becomes annoying. how do you gauge, okay, now i'm annoying. i have crossed over. >> if you are reaching out too frequently or too aggressively, you will not only lose the sale but the whole relationship. it is all about relationships. that's how we built this whole business, based on relationships. >> is it a feeling that you get.

this person i reach out to once a month, this person once a year. >> yeah. based on their response to you. you can tell if they're hot, warm, or cold. if they're cold, you might reach out once a year. if they are warm, you phaoeuplt reach out once every couple of months. if you're hot, reach out once every two, three weeks and get their pulse about what you're proposing and their reaction to it. >> do you segment who your customers are? >> well, there's a lot of different ways to do it. some of people like myself are old school and we have a paper planner. >> i put it in my calendar. there was one nonprofit who wouldn't work with us. it was a big national one. every six months it would say go reach out to them. after three years, they finally signed up. all right, gene, i know you're reaching out because i have been

getting e-mails from you recently inviting me to something. so you are very good about this. you're in sales. but what is something you are doing well these days. >> oh, gosh. one of the things we have been talking about is health insurance, right? we have been advising our clients of some of the options people have with health insurance these days. that whole landscape has changed. >> very complicated. >> it has become very, very complicated. this year, i won't get too political, but the trump administration will have association health plans. an association health plan is for any employer. what they can do is form their own association, j.j. the association can be like-minded employers, people in a certain region, or people in a certain area. the key is if you get more than 100 people that belong to this association, your employees and other company's employees, you are not subject to some of the

more own russ rules of the affordable care act. i'm not saying that's good, by the way. it's an option. >> just to know about. so do i need to make a relationship myself with other businesses, or are there brokers who are starting to put it together? >> that's a great question. first of all, you have to do it yourself. it is not like a national plumbers association. you can form your own associations depending who you know and businesses that are like minded. >> do one of us have to administrate it? >> yes. you go to a broker and negotiate for the best insurance plans that you can get. because you are dealing with a larger buying group, they can negotiate back with you and give you more affordable health insurance. it's an option. it's a good thing. >> it is important for us to know what is out there. >> absolutely. >> and that is what i found when i was looking for health

insurance for my employees. thank you. so good to see you both. >> thank you so much. this week's your biz selfie comes from joseph baker, owner of safe zone defenses in atlanta, georgia. joseph is a marine corps. veteran who started to provide training and safety measures to help promote responsible firearm ownership. we love hearing from you, business owners, and love seeing your pictures. so please pick up your phone, take a selfie of you and your business just like the one you saw and send it to yourbusiness@msnbc.com or tweet it to@msnbcyourbiz. be sure to include your name, the name of your business, its location, as well as as anything interesting that you want us to share. thank you so much for joining us today. we love hearing from you. to get in touch, all you have to do is e-mail us at yourbusiness@msnbc.com. or go to msnbc.com/yourbusiness.

we put up everything from today's show, plus a whole lot more for you. and then we put up more every single day on our digital and social media platforms too. check out our podcast, been there, built that. listen to it for free on apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. we look forward to see you. until next time, remember, we make your business our business. the line between work and life hasn't just blurred. it's gone. that's why you need someone behind you. not just a card. an entire support system. whether visiting the airport lounge to catch up on what's really important. or even using those hard-earned points to squeeze in a little family time.

no one has your back like american express. so no matter where you're going... we're right there with you. the powerful backing of american express. don't do business without it. don't live life without it. morning glory, america. i'm hugh hewitt. on friday afternoon, i sat down with secretary of state mike pompeo in his office on the 7th floor of the state department. almost exactly a year since is i interviewed him at cia headquarters in langley. here's part one of the interview. secretary pompeo, thank you for having us. >> hugh, it's great to be with you. welcome to the state department. >> great to be here. is the senate working with you to fill them so you can have the leadership for the best core in the world? >> the answer is we need to move