president making big claims after north korea, and of course a strong economy. so a president with peace and prosperity at the moment, republicans down the ticket are going to help they can get a rbi rbi -- a little bit of that halo. >> thanks so much. >> happy getaway day and holiday weekend. >> thanks. you too as well. we're going to be reading axios again. that does it for us on this friday morning. "morning joe," everybody starts right now. they keep talking about the 13 angry democrats that are running the investigation. >> congressman i'm trying to do this job apolitically, and i consider -- do not consider myself an angry democrat. >> are you a democrat? >> no, i am not. >> mr. rosenstein, are you a democrat? i'm not a democrat and i'm not

angry. >> you know who else isn't a democrat? probably not angry either. bob mueller. >> no, he's not angry. >> i think -- >> angry's not the word. >> focused. >> calm, not angry. >> life long -- >> good morning everyone. >> unlike a lot of those republicans yesterday that were on that committee. they were just sort of unhinged. really angry and unhinged. >> hair on fire. >> just sort of spewing a lot of facts that weren't true, but they were so angry and unhinged, for an fbi director, life long republican like chris ray who's committed his life, certainly, did this, came in donald trump asked him to be his fbi director. came in and is doing such a great job.

rod rose enstein, a life long. >> they're yelling and shouting. for them to be so unhinged and screaming and yelling like that at two of america's top law enforcement officers. a lot of americans are looking and saying why are they so unhinged. >> because they're worried. it's that simple. if they weren't worried, they wouldn't about. i thought with the tie undone, they are worried. if you're backed in a corner and think a train is coming, you're going to be worried. >> i know what i would be worried about. if i were wearing a bow tie like you today. >> this is once again -- >> what's going on? >> i know you're going to the hamptons this weekend but this wasp. >> it's called sartorial splendor. >> don't ever --

>> don't have kids watching. >> the poliest ter. >> this is a blend. >> by the way, the kids that wat watch. >> with us we have donnie deutsch. we re- >> $400 million gets you? >> by the way, that number you threw out there. >> is that low? >> the number's robust and it was good out there. >> republicans -- >> political analyst susan -- hopefully she'll stay, former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama and msnbc contributor. and also senior writer at politico and he has no choice but to be here. and pulitzer prize columnist, eugene robinson.

you could get up and go if you wanted to. >> i just wish i had a suit like donnie's? >> gene, you and i talk fashion a lot. please help me out here, sir. >> coming up this morning, the -- there are so many things to get to that it's hard to figure out what to lead with but the latest in the looming fight over the supreme court. president trump reaches out to red state democrats while democrats try to woo moderate republicans. latest on the deadly shooting in maryland where a gunman opened fire on the "capital gazette" news room in annapolis. that is straight ahead. also, new reporting shows migrant children -- stay with me here -- as young as 3 years old are being ordered into court alone for their deportation proceedings. we had one 3-year-old climbing up on the table at his own deportation hearing. there, alone. >> it shows you, joyce, it shows

you just how preposterous this is. >> if we needed a mental picture. >> that donald trump's centralized stay. all these congressman screaming and yelling and unhinged and losing, making fools of themselves. they're concerned about properly executed fisa warrants that have been already approved. by the way, lying, trying to put words in rod rosenstein's mouth, and yet, at the american border, you have toddlers who are being taken into court and are being represented in front of judges who are climbing up on tables. >> you know, it's been a week of stark contrasts and i think that is absolutely the worst one. we have this preposterous exchange yesterday where rod rosenstein's who testifying under oath is accused of lying yet there's no outcry.

>> they're berating rod rosenstein and yelling and not letting him finish his statements. obviously, i guess playing to their home crowd, but why doesn't their home crowd care about 3-year-old infants that -- rather than beat up two loyal republicans, i guess. i don't understand why they're yelling and screaming and being unhinged at these royal republicans who are law enforcement officers. they don't care about the 3-year-old kids that are being dragged into court. >> the truth is that process has been broken for a really long time. if there's one silver lining here, i here, it's the flash light shined upon it. that idea of a 3-year-old child in a courtroom with no lawyer, no ability to defend itself and people treating it as though it's a legitimate procedure. >> totally agree it's a broken process. >> you would hope if they were

going to become unhinged and angry about something, they to become unhinged about 3 month old children ripped from their mother's arms and put on buses. >> they don't know where these kids are. red cross, after last week saying, oh, we're not keeping kept out. red cross, yoi don't think ---i haven't heard. we don't know where the kids are, we don't know when they're going to be reunited with the parents yet you've got republicans on capitol hill in the house at least. senate would never behave this way. certainly not this senate because they're running a bipartisan investigation because they care. they want to find out what vladimir putin did in two years leading up to the 2016 campaign. >> he did nothing. donald trump said he did nothing. >> but unfortunately for those republicans that were unhinged

yesterday, unfortunately vladimir putin did and you had the head of the fbi. >> donald trump said he didn't, though. >> trump's cia director who's now trump's secretary of state. you can go down the list. they all said it. they all said that vladimir putin was trying to rig that election and he is still trying to rig the 2018 election. >> and the president of the united states is pushing back on this. >> he obviously didn't. >> the president doesn't care that vladimir putin -- in fact, he's having a summit with him. >> i think that -- >> and these republicans, republicans we used to stand up. we used to stand up against the russians. i guess, though, that you don't if you're jim jordan. >> no. my goodness gracious. >> and even trey gowdy yesterday going -- i think benghazi was more than twice as long, we'll

show how long white water went. i didn't hear them becoming unhinged about that. >> in a party line vote, house republicans passed a non binding measure demanding the justice department produce sensitive documents about the russia investigation within the next seven days, with some threatening to impeach deputy attorney general -- >> let me get this straight. they want the fbi and the justice department to release sensitive documents about an ongoing investigation against russia. i think that says just about everything you need to know about how unhin ijed they are. >> alongside fbi director christopher wray, rosenstein appeared yesterday where republican lawmakers berated him with accusations. >> mr. rosenstein, why are you keeping information from congress? >> i'm not keeping any

information. >> in a few minutes i think the house of representatives is going to say something different. >> i don't agree with you congress -- >> i don't know why you won't give us what we've asked for. >> i certainly hope your colleagues are not under that impression. that is not accurate, sir. >> it is accurate, we -- >> mr. chairman can we allow the witness to answer? >> let me make this one point. >> sir -- >> statement that i am personally keeping information from you. >> you're the boss, mr. rosenstein. >> that's correct. and my job is to make sure we respond to your concerns. we have, sir. my understanding is the production is going very well. but our. >> point of order, may the witness be permitted. >> it's not personal. we just want the information. >> i appreciate your saying it isn't personal. sometimes it feels that way.

>> being a former felony state judge, if it i had somebody like you come before me and now it was -- >> i'm not -- >> later that the guy that signed and approved an application for a parewarrant h not even red the application that would allow spying on somebody, i would look at everything he signed from then on with a jaundiced eye. i'm telling you, i was a little concerned about. >> give me a chance to explain, sir. >> you have. you've hade. >> no i have not. >> mr. rosenstein did you threaten staffers on the house intelligence committee? media reports indicate you did. >> media reports are mistaken. >> sometimes, but this is what they said, having the nation's number one law enforcement officer threaten to subpoena your calls and e-mails is down right chilling. >> no, sir. there's no way to subpoena phone calls. >> i mean i'm just saying.

>> so, susan, you just wonder why these respects are so unhinged. i know donald trump is. i know that he sends out unhinged, all-cap tweets all the time. but, if it you saw the testimony, if you listened to the testimony, rod rosenstein, time and time again, they were mischaracterizing everything that had happened in that investigation. and all they would do is say we're unhinged and yelling at him and making accusations that were false and then when he finally got a chance to speak, he would say exactly what had happened, and that is exactly what's happening inside there. any fair reading of the facts show that he's doing a straight job. why would the republicans so unhinged and acting crazy

yesterday? >> the only thing i can think is they think it's a casting call. auditioning for donald trump. i won't say when they're done with the public service because if it you want to see what public servants are, look at rod rosenstein. these are people that served their country with integrity. what we saw yesterday was so disrespectful to the american public, not just to those gentlemen but to all of us as americans. they don't care about finding what the truth, all they want to do is get their name and face on tv. and that's -- maybe please donald trump because they want to get something down the road. these members of congress are disgraceful. >> and, you know, gene, they're playing -- this is what the kids in advertising call microtargeting. they're playing to a very small crowd. i know there's some people, some hosts, late at night on "fox news" that sort of regurgitate

this out, but even "fox news's" president is starting to send out memos and having meetings. that's happened here before in the past. it's happened here like a decade ago, where you had the press say enough. enough. there's guardrails here. but those people that were unhinged yesterday, lying, using their positions, gosh, i guess susan's right, i guess it's just casting calls for donald trump because they're in this alternative reality where the only people that liked what they were doing yesterday would be people that were brainwashed, the small percentage of americans, not many. donald trump, and vladimir putin, because they are trying to stop the investigation into how vladimir putin influenced the 2016 election and how he is still trying to influence the 2018 election, according to our cia director, according to director coats, according to

mike pompeo, according to all of the intelligence chiefs, all of whom were appointed by donald trump. >> yeah. they're playing to an audience of one, donald trump. they're in pretty safe distribut distri distribut distributes, but they rely on the support of donald trump or at least on his not attacking them in tweets, and you know, they're trying to deep six this investigation that every professional intelligence official, everybody who's at all objective has looked at, says it's a totally valid investigation. >> gene, gene, can we underline the fact these are not obama officials? >> they're not. >> saying that vladimir putin is trying to rig american democracy, that these are all

intel officials who were appointed by donald trump? >> right. they were appointed by donald trump. in the main republicans, life long republicans like bob mueller and rod rosenstein and director wray. they are not at all handling this in a partisan nature. quite the contrary. i think they have bent over backwards to try to do this investigation without sort of, you know, running afoul of the ego maniac in the white house, who is -- was just crazed because of the way it implicates his campaign. >> yeah. >> and that's just where the chips fall. we will get to the bottom of this, i trust, but it's just disgraceful that those officials had to go through that yesterday. >> well, add on to this. >> it is disgraceful, such good,

loyal americans, good republicans. loyal republicans. do you think when these republicans came to work for a republican administration they actually thought they were going to be screamed and yelled at by unhinged people in their own party? quite a divide from the republican party that we all grew up in. abraham lincoln and ronald reagan's party. those two officers who were just treated shall treat treated shabbily. >> two and a half years, well he said it's time for this investigation to close up shop. >> russia isn't being hurt by this investigation right now. we are. this country is being hurt by it. we are being divided. we've seen the bias.

we've seen the bias. we need to see the evidence. if you have evidence of wrongdoing by any member of the trump campaign, present it to the damn grand jury. if you have evidence this president acted inappropriately, president it to the american people. whatever you got, finish it the hell up. >> it's very easy for him to say that. we'll give him a break because he's never actually practiced law or went to law school. in fact i think he was a plumber by trade before he got there. he doesn't understand the law or investigation. so let's give him a free pass. for the rest of you who aren't lawyers, let's just -- >> and joyce can help out. >> joyce, you can help out because you're a lawyer. >> understanding of the law. >> i went to law school but i was never a good lawyer. >> this, joyce's case, very talented. >> first of all, this russia investigation, just a fraction

of the other special prosecutor's investigations. it's at about the 400-day mark. iran contra, why they lasted 2,420 days. and white water, which all republicans were cheering. they loved that one. that was a good one. seemed like the thing to do for an entire decade. 2,978 days. i didn't hear tray gowdy or anybody else while that was going on saying hurry the damn up. and his own benghazi investigation, i don't know if he remembers this but that went like what 297 days, and filed a final report in december of 2016, a month after hillary clinton -- i'm not making this up -- filed it after she lost the presidential campaign. now. >> it was important to him. >> 14 months after the republican house majority leader

deav mer mccarthy said this. >> everybody thought hillary clinton was unbeatable. but we put together a benghazi committee. what are her numbers today? her numbers are dropping. >> wow. guess what? also trey gowdy said nothing's been proved. just bias. nobody in the trump campaign did anything wrong. just bias. if you have evidence, prove it. that could come, i must tell you, congressman gowdy, as a cold -- cold comfort to paul manafort, who actually -- i know congressman gowdy, you actually around during the -- a lot of people would call it the russian campaign, donald trump's campaign -- but paul manafort was actually donald trump's campaign chairman. and donald trump told me during the campaign he had to hire

manafort if it he wanted to win the republican nomination, because manafort knew how to get delegates. so manafort indicted, sitting in jail, congressman gaudowdy, micl flynn, the guy who flew around with donald trump everywhere, because he kept him calm. michael flynn, congressman gowdy, said nothing's been proven. guilty. he was also donald trump's first national security adviser. rick gates, also a top campaign aide also helped, believe it it or not in the transition toward the inauguration, guilty, also cooperating with robert mueller, george pop a dop plis. if republicans are cursed with short term pmemory loss, the fat

that trey gowdy said nothing happened. man that donald trump told the washington post in spring of 2016 in the middle of his campaign was one of his top two foreign policy advisers. guilty also. cooperating. and, by the way, what -- we don't just have to talk donnie deutsch about all of donald trump's campaign aides that are now guilty. some in jail, but most of them cooperating, we could talk about the 13 russians. >> oh. >> who have been indicted. >> talk about the three russian companies that were indicted. why, there's a vertable cornucopia of indictments flying around of plea deals flying around of you name it, flying around evidence, and yet they're just saying -- could we get that clip? i hate to do this, but i don't -- i think maybe i have

short-term memory loss because i really can't believe trey gowdy said what i'm remembering him to have said. did he say nothing's happened? >> he said nothing's happened. >> can i hear that clip again. >> we can play it again for you. >> i'm a little worried. >> here it is. you can see it. you won't forget. >> russia isn't being hurt by this investigation now. we are. this country is being hurt by it. we are being divided. we've seen the bias. we've seen the bias. we need to see the evidence. if you have evidence of wrongdoing by any member of the trump campaign, present it to the damn grand jury. if you have evidence that this president acted inappropriately, present it to the american people. whatever you got, finish it the hell up. >> i got to say, listen to that the second time. >> you got it now? >> trump confused.

>> hold on, donnie. cold glass of water on a hot mississippi day playing dixie baseball. in my youth, because i'm not as concerned anybody. i'm comforted, because what he said is completely wrong. he said russians aren't hurt by this. they actually are. >> yeah. >> hold on. they're hurt badly, and there have been thousands of reports that have been out over the past six month that is this is hurting russia. also he said we've seen the bias. we need to see the evidence. if anybody in the trump campaign -- could you put that chart up one more time. he said if anybody in the trump campaign did anything wrong -- okay. yeah. we're going to have about 10 seconds of silence in memory of the congressman's memory. and let's just look at this and soak it in. then talk to a guy who's wearing a bow tie that shouldn't.

hold on. let's listen. shh. >> okay. there we go. >> here's why i think everything gets cleared up. and why i think probably trey gowdy is right. >> are you really wearing that bow tie? >> yes i am. i'd like the viewers to write in. >> it's a real one. >> donald trump said that vladimir putin said to him they didn't get involved. they didn't mess at all. so we know that must be true because putin, our number one geopolitical enemy said to our president, no, we didn't. i feel better that they didn't. i'm not worried. >> because vladimir putin said they didn't. >> the dimindictments don't mat. it doesn't matter rob mueller is doing what he's doing because

he's going to come up and said wait, putin is right. >> i was going to say by trey gowdy was right about one thing. it is an investigation that's hurting this country. it at least the senate is doing something. but mr. -- >> republicans are acting like public ser haven'ts. >> they're doing their job, but the house are hurting and they are helping russia by not acting responsibly. >> i hold, joyce -- there was a great -- i think it was george conway wrote a gray law fair column saying you know when donald trump goes out and balla about this, we hold him to a different standard. we hold non-lawyers to a different standard. there was somebody who was like talking about how

unconstitutional robert mueller's investigation. and it would be you one thing if it was donald trump but this was one of the cofounders of the society so he should be ashamed of himself in the words of former chief justice renquist -- he is an officer of the court. i consider somebody who's been a lawyer an officer of the court. for an officer of the court to lie like that, and he knows what investigations are like. he understands that robert mueller is moving at a fast and furious pace, and he understands that he's in the middle of investigation that his move with ruthless efficiency over the past year. trey gowdy knows better. >> there are two things that really stand out here. first thing is how quickly

mueller has moved. every federal prosecutor will tell you that public corruption cases, which is what this is, they're complicated. they take time. this one has international financial legs, and yet here mueller is moving at lightning speed with indictments in double budgets in the first year. that's really remarkable. second thing that gowdy knows is that everything that happens in the grand jury happens behind a veil of secrecy. gowdy doesn't know what mueller has been doing. we know the russian troll farm indictment is there. we know he's been talking to folks like roger stone. there's clearly another shoe to drop and i think the question is how many shoes and how close they land to donald trump's front door. >> it's obviously that's what they're trying to stop. >> absolutely. yesterday, to me, looked like they were trying to come up with a reason or hook to pull rod

rosenstein out of the justice department. they accused him of lying under oath. i've never seen rod rosenstein that agitated in any situation. i thought he handled himself remarkably well standing up for the best preseincipals. >> standing up for the men and women. christopher wray, donald trump, you appointed somebody great there. >> really good hire. still ahead on mrng t"morni joe," the latest in the investigation of the shooting. plus nbc reported earlier this year that john kelly was stepping down as chief of staff. new reporting it could come sooner than expected. will he be replaced? "morning joe" will be right back. i like chillaxin.

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papadopou what i said in 2016 is that

we shouldn't feel a supreme court vacancy in the middle of a presidential election year. the last time i looked there was no presidential election this year, and in fact, three current members of the u.s. supreme court were completed in election years, non-presidential election years, and the president's nominee to the kennedy vacancy will be confirmed in a non-presidential election, election have jake sherman her. tell us about it. >> joe manchin and several democrats were at the white house last night. and i think it's becoming abundantly clear that democrats are absolutely in play when it comes to the supreme court nomination that's going to come down in this midterm election year. and we'll see who trump picks but it could go beyond those

three senators. there are a couple candidates from michigan. she could be pushed for voting for at least considering some of these nominees. so i think it's obviously an extraordinarily volatile situation for senate democrats, and it's going to infuriate the democratic base if, obviously, any of these democratic senators vote for trump's supreme court nominee. >> you know, gene, six months action oh, we were talking about how hard it would be for republican senators to hug donald trump in the general election, then run in some of these swing states. or in the primary and run in the general election with trump wrapped around them. it was sort of a lose lose situation. i think you have the same thing here with these democrats. >> first of all, how do you run in west virginia, indiana or

north dakota if it you vote against donald trump's supreme court choice? and then, how do you stay in the democratic party if you're the one that helps them -- donald trump put a second person on the supreme court before the election? i mean it's a lose-lose situation but it's almost like i can vote with donald trump again on the most important thing to the democratic base but after i do that i'm going to have to switch parties. >> yeah. you're really between the proverbial rock and hard place if you are manchin or heitkamp. you're in trouble, because they really need to worry about the democratic party and democratic base, which is in no mood to sort of roll over on this nomination. you know, let's be real. donald trump will get to make this nomination. whether before the election or after the leaelection. it will be somebody most

democrats don't want and don't like. in that sense the democratic party is going to lose this fight. but they have to wage this fight, i think. and the base will not settle for not having a fight. and they need to motivate people to vote in november. there's a lot the stake and the senate is a heavy left for democrats. house very much in play. and they need people to come out and vote. i think, to get people out to vote, they're going to have to show some spirit and resolve on this. >> jake, when people look lack at hillary clinton's loss in 2016, a -- there's a lot of to ex cuss on the white working class guys that voted for obama and voted for trump. there's not enough focus on the fact that the democratic base, black democrats, hispanic democrats, just did not go out in sufficient numbers for hillary clinton to win. if you're heidi heitkamp or joe

manchin or donnelly, and you want democrats to come out in big numbers in the general election so you can win, you can't vote for donald trump's supreme court nominee, or you will have the political mark of can efr ka kane on you for the rest of your life. >> in order to make this a salient issue they cannot talk about it being unfair for mcconnell to give this nominee hearing when he didn't give merritt garland a hearing back in 2015. what democrats are saying is we need to focus on the fact that this justice is going to, in their estimation, roll back rights for abortion. they're going -- this nominee is going to presumably roll back health care rights. they need to make a salient political argument, they think, that doesn't have to do with process, because the supreme court has been, for many many

years, a massive issue for republicans, and for republican turnout. it has not been the same sort of galvanizing issue for democrats. they think this time they can make this an argument that will energize the democratic base. >> vote. this is the vote that determines roe v. wade. justice kennedy was the republican appointed justice that was that fifth vote in abortion, 5-4. i do think that while it's always been conservatives like me who have been genned up by the supreme court. if it's not one of the most important things for the democratic base now with roe v. wade hanging in the balance for them, i don't know when it would be. >> if the democrats don't frame

this election properly, it is an election for the soul of this country, starting with roe v. wade, starting with putting a check and balance on this president, because if we don't get the house back, if the democrats cannot tee it up, this is a more important election than even 2016. >> the message should be clear. >> if it we can't get that right, the democrats -- >> certainly roe v. wade for the democratic base, but there are so many -- for pro-life catholics in pennsylvania, there's a great message to vote democratic. for pro-life baptists in virginia, there's a great message forevoting democratic. this crosses all idealogical boundary, but, for the base itself, this supreme court pick is the most important. >> consequential. >> joyce, for how long? my god, 20 years? >> 20, 30 years.

right? >> jake sherman, thank you very much. >> thank you. still ahead, president trump has attacked both canada and mexico over nafta and now there's reporting he wants to with draw the u.s. from the world trade organization. >> did you hear he tried to get macr macron -- good luck with that. >> we'll talk about that, next on "morning joe."

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very important now. bow ties. >> i started my career in advertising at a firm that was a kind of white shoe waspy firm. i used to wear spenders and bow ties, just a jew from queens. i lasted about a year and they threw me hout. >> new reporting from the washington post. >> i can tie a bow tie in college. >> college you were wearing bow ties? >> what college did you go to? university of alabama. >> a couple of events. >> i can't unsee that in my mind. >> very hard. very hard to tie those things.

>> new reporting from "the washington post" -- >> unless you have really little hands. like. >> people named donald. >> hey, hey, hey. look at these mitts. >> i have a little bunny. >> talking about you. >> new reporting from "the washington post" says that during a private meeting with france' emmanuel macron president trump asked him, quote, why don't you leiave the eu with trump offering he would offer a bilateral trade. white house declined to comment on the report and did not dispute it. >> that's not the only global institution he wants nothing to do with. now, on a friday, of all days, cofounder of axios, mike allen. mike? >> it's a sobering day for

journalists in the capitol. but for people who are headed out for the 4th of july, happy getaway day. >> thank you. >> so mike tell under the circumstanc circumstances -- us about your reporting on donald trump. i guess already wanted macron to get out of the eu, throwing candy at merkel. that's just the trtrifecta, isn it? >> that's a fascinating window how advisors manage the president and there's even worse stuff that happens behind the scenes. repeatedly, behind the scenes. president said he wants to get out of the world trade organization. he thinks it was designed to screw the united states. opposite. of course is true. after world war ii the with. it. o was set up to settle trade disputes. the president's own report says that in the last 20 or some

years, we've won 85% of our cases there. two thirds for china. and yet, he said 100 time, advisers tell jonathan swan, that he wants to get out of the world trade organization and they always brush him off, and they put it off, always try to buy time. but when we first heard this, we started to ask some other advisors, and they said oh yeah, we've heard him say that. so the twist here is that the advisers are realizing now that just buying time, that just pacifying him in the moment doesn't do it, because then you get tariffs that he just announces and goes out and announces the space force. just tweets that he's going to issue an executive order to deal with the kids. so, what they say now is you need to put a real policy process in place to deal with this and try to convince him otherwise, defuse it or he'll just tweak. >> this is exactly what the

times is reporting today about the military parade. nobody wants to do the military parade. they keep pushing it off. >> including the military. >> exactly. thank you so much. and thank you for bringing up the tragedy in annapolis, which we're talking about. >> continue to cover that. still ahead, yesterday's shooting at the "capital gazette" in maryland marked america's 154th mass shooting this year. latest on the investigation ahead on "morning joe."

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all right. we have been talking about a lot of issues this morning pertaining to the fate of our democracy and today the free press took a huge hit yesterday. the deadly shooting that killed five people at the "capital gazette," a newspaper based out of annapolis, maryland. overnight, the suspected gunman

was charged with five counts of first degree murder. a bail hearing has been set for later this morning. we've also learned that the suspect sued the "capital gazette" for defamation in 2012 after a columnist wrote a blog about his guilty plea to criminal harassment in 2011. a court ruled in the "capital gazette's" favor and an appeals court upheld the ruling. police were notified about an active shooter just before 3:00 p.m. yesterday. reporter phil davis who was inside the building tweeted that a gunman shot through the glass door to the office and opened fire on multiple employees. in a later interview with the baltimore "sun," he said it was "like a war zone" inside the newspaper's offices. he said others were hiding under their desks when the gunman stopped firing. according to police, authorities took a suspect into custody without any exchange of fire. despite yesterday's shooting,

reporters and editors at the "capital gazette" continued to report on the tragedy last night. this is the paper's front page this morning. a lot of people were worried about exactly where this came from. there were years of concern about this person and the defamation suit but it hits home for newsrooms across the country to see something like this happened there, it raises obviously the issue of guns in america but the job reporters do. they don't get paid a lot and they love what they do. they do it because they believe in the truth and bringing facts to the table and preserving our democracy. >> you wonder with the president saying the press is the enemy of the state is he fuelling more fire like this? >> this was a local dispute and this was a situation that went back to 2011 so certainly no

evidence of that there but i think everybody agrees when you see scenes like this, everybody agrees it serves us all well to tone down the rhetoric. coming up, the "new york times" michael schmidt and jeremy peters will be with us with their latest reporting. plus, more from the party of trump going after two of our nation's top law enforcement officers. republicans used to always be the defenders of law enforcement and would often castigate democrats for not being respectful enough of law enforcement authorities. if you look at at least the house of representatives, the senate are actually carrying themselves with dignity, republicans and democrats alike. not so in the house. and there was this. >> director wray, i'm going to ask you.

is there a deep state at the fbi? >> congressman, i've never completely understood the term deep state. what i can tell you is that we have 37,000 men and women working in field offices all over the country and legat offices all over the world and they are people of courage, character, principle, selflessness and patriotism and that's the fbi that i see. but i really love it. i'm on the move all day long, and sometimes i don't eat the way i should. so i drink boost to get the nutrition i'm missing. boost high protein now has 33% more protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals. and it has a guaranteed great taste. man: boost gives me everything i need to be up for doing what i love. boost high protein. be up for it. it's not theirs, it's mine. the new rx 350l with three rows for seven passengers. lease the 2018 rx 350l

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didn't think i was going to be spending the first ten months of my job staring down the barrel of a contempt citation for a dhaukt occurred long before i even thought about being fbi director. >> it seems like you should be recused from this more so than jeff sessions because you were involved in making decisions affecting both prongs of this investigation. why haven't you done that? >> congressman, i can assure you that if it were appropriate for me to recuse i would be more than happy to do so and let somebody else handle this but it's my responsibility to do it. >> okay. welcome back to "morning joe." it's friday, june 29. still with us we have donny deutsch. republican strategist and msnbc political analyst susan del percio. pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of the "washington post" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. and joining the conversation, "new york times" reporter michael schmidt and editor-in-chief of "law fair" and an msnbc legal analyst benjamin wittes. good to have you on board. >> we went last hour, showed a

couple of clips and, ben, why don't we get those cued up. a couple clips -- >> they're incredible. >> showing rod rosenstein going in there and not being asked questions, basically being shouted at by unhinged members of the house republican party who are not carrying themselves the same way republicans in the united states senate are. the chairman of the judiciary in the senate has said that there's an investigation going on on whether vladimir putin try to influence our election in 2016 and still is in 2018. you have chairman burr from north carolina who has been working very well with the ranking member from virginia and they're doing it the way you're supposed to conduct bipartisan investigations, trying to get to the bottom of what donald

trump's intel chief has said was a long concerted effort by vladimir putin to interfere with american democracy. i told you they did it flight the senate. let me show you the clown show in the house. >> mr. rosenstein, why are you keeping information from congress? >> congressman, i am not keeping any information from congress that is appropriate -- >> in a few minutes, mr. rosenstein, i think the house of representatives is going to say something different. >> i don't agree with you, congressman. i don't believe that's what they're going to say and if they do they will be mistaken. >> i want to know why you won't give us what we've asked for. >> sir, i certainly hope your colleagues are not under that impression. that is not accurate, sir. >> it is accurate. we have caught you hiding -- >> mr. chairman, can we allow this witness to answer? >> let me make this one point -- >> your statement that i'm personally keeping information from you, trying to conceal information -- >> you're the boss, mr.

rosenstein. >> that's correct. and my job is to make sure we respond to your concerns. we have, sir. now i have appointed mr. loesch who is managing that production and my understanding is that it's going very well but your use of this toy attack me personally -- >> point of order, may the witness be permitted to answer the question. >> it's not personal. appreciate your service, it's not personal. we just want the information. >> appreciate you saying it isn't personal. sometimes it feels that way. >> mr. rosenstein, did you threat threaten staffers on the house intelligence committee? media reports indicate you did. >> media reports are mistaken. >> sometimes, but this is what they said. having the nation's number one law enforcement officer threaten to subpoena your calls and e-mails is down right chilling. did you threat on the subpoena their calls and e-mails. >> no, sir and there's no way to subpoena phone calls. [ laughter ] >> ouch. i mean -- >> benjamin wittes, the display of these republicans, they were angry, they were unhinge d.

they never stopped screaming and let rod rosenstein respond. it became clear what was going on with this investigation. what were your take aways from what i call the clown show yesterday in the house? >> you call it a clown show. that's a is generous word for it. all of this stuff is done in the name of oversight but this was not aboutor sig oversight. this is all about protecting the president from a lawful and proper investigation of a very serious set of matters and the idea that we drag our law enforcement leadership in front of a congressional panel to be hectored and berated and lied about and lied to for hours and

hours and hours, this sends a dangerous message to everybody who works in law enforcement that the congress of the united states is your enemy. they will try to destroy you and that is not the message that we should be sending to people in public service. >> well, it is -- they were angry and unhinged and gene robinson, it was disgraceful and it was dangerous because even the republicans in the united states senate, the republicans in the united states senate will tell you what they were doing is providing cover for donald trump and by extension providing cover for vladimir putin because all of donald trump's intel chiefs

told the senate that, in fact, vladimir putin is actively trying to undermine american democracy and while he's trying to undermine american democracy, you have a handful of these house remembers who are trying to undermine the investigation of vladimir putin. >> right. and so why wouldn't republicans want to get to the bottom of that? why wouldn't republicans want to know exactly what putin and the russians did, how they did it, who might have helped them. >> that's a great question. >> why wouldn't they consider interference in our election process just an outrage. an unacceptable hostile act by an adversarial nation like -- it's just amazing that they're protecting vladimir putin and

his campaign to disrupt western democracies. not just doing it here, he's done it throughout europe. ask european leaders if they don't feel under threat by russian attempts to mess with their democracies and yet one of our major political parties is not only just uninterested but wants two thwart an investigation into it and the reason is to protect donald trump. the investigation comes dangerously close to donald j. trump and they're trying to protect it. >> well, they're doing everything they can to try to stop the investigation while the investigation is moving at extraordinarily fast pace. you know, gene's right, this isn't just putin's plan for the united states of america. >> he tried to disrupt the election in france, he tried in

bulgaria. he tried in poland and austria, across central and eastern europe. he's trying it and our job is to elect leaders who are trying to stop and who will protect american democracy instead of trying to kill investigations by spewing out falsehoods at capitol hill hearings. here's trey gowdy again. i want to play this trey gowdy clip. it's breathtaking. >> russia isn't being hurt boy this investigation right now, we are. this country is being hurt. we are being divided. we've seen the bias. we've seen the bias. we need to see the evidence. if you have evidence of wrongdoing by any member of the trump campaign present it to the damn grand jury. if you have evidence that this president acted inappropriately, present it to the american people.

whatever you got, finish it the hell up. >> i've got to go back to ben wittes. ben, i'm going to show you a couple things here. let's look at timelines. trey gowdy knows better. that's what's so disgusting. the russia investigation that -- it's gone 397 days. it's cost less than donald trump's trips to his privately owned golf courses. check the numbers. that's the truth. and we've got four intel chiefs saying that russia is trying to influence and undermine and subvert american democracy so that investigation is going 397 days. iran can tra almost -- contra almost 2500 days, and whitewater 2900 days. no complaints from republicans about that. look at those numbers. you've got a guy who is an officer of the court saying

hurry the hell up and get this done quickly. he knows this is moving extraordinarily quickly and the results as well. ben wittes, let's look at the results of what's happened because you had him say if you have evidence of anybody on trump's campaign doing anything improper let us know. you've got paul manafort, trump's campaign chair that he said he had to hire so he could win the republican nomination because he said manafort knew how to get things done, knew how to get the votes indicted, in jail, michael flynn indicted, pled guilty cooperating, rick gates, campaign chair -- co-campaign aide who worked through the transition, guilty and cooperating, george papadopoulos, a man donald trump said in the middle of a heated

campaign told the "washington post" one of his top foreign policy advisers, arrested, pled guilty, cooperating as well, and, of course, 13 russians, three russian companies and this appears to be from how things look, ben, not the beginning of the end but it could be as winston churchill would say the end of the beginning yet you have these republicans trying to kill this investigation. >> so if this is as the president says a witch-hunt, it hasn't lacked for witches to catch and you can over and over and over again as gowdy did yesterday demand that it produce evidence but that doesn't mean it hasn't produced evidence and you can complain about the length of time that it's taken, but that doesn't mean it's taken a long time.

and you can raise questions about the integrity of the people who run it but that doesn't mean there are serious questions about the integrity of the people who run it. what's going on here is a systemic effort on the part of house republicans to protect the president by sliming the people who have been charged with investigating this set of matter s and you eluded to republicans in the senate as a counterexample. there's one in particular i think we should call out specifically which is senator richard burr who is running the senate intelligence committee investigati investigation. and if a lot of viewers have not heard his name, that's because he's put his head down and done his job and let his staff work with senator warner's staff to do their job and that's what a

congressional investigation in this matter should look like. and people think it's a wholly partisan thing. it's not a wholly partisan thing. you call it a clown show, i call it an inquisition. this is a group of republicans in the house behaving in an extraordinarily reckless and dangerous fashion. there are other republican that are not doing this and we should be aware of the fact that not all of them work this way. >> history will judge them very harshly. first of all, as far as trey gowdy saying how long this has taken. his benghazi investigation went two and a half years. he waited until after hillary clinton lost to wrap it up. please. the hypocrisy there is crazy, as far as richard burr goes, i came in to congress in 1994 with richard burr. he's a conservative's

conservative. he's a republican's republican. he's always been loyal to the conservative cause. he's always been loyal to the republican party. yet he puts america first. that's what you call america first. he puts america first, ahead his part party. the intel chiefs that donald trump hired say russia is trying to subvert american democracy, richard is working with democrats and republicans alike to figure out how they're subverting democracy. also, mika, ben was talking about well if there's a witch-hunt, they've found a lot of witches. actually, a lot of witches just sort of -- robert mueller walked out his front door, started to walk off the porch and all these witches fell right at his feet. it's not even been that hard of a witch-hunt so far if you compare the length of this to iran-contra or to whitewater.

the witches are falling out of the sky at his feet. >> so what were the republicans in congress trying to do and especially trey gowdy and this jim -- what was it, jordan? wow, a little outmatched there. just a tiny bit outmatched. michael schmidt, where is your reporting taking you as it pertains to attorney general rod rosenste rosenstein? is it 2 possibility he could be fired and what could be the fallout there? >> of course he could be fired and the president would like that do that but he realizes that politically that is too difficult. when he fired comey, i still think he has the scars from that. he understands how damaging that was to himself. he knows what mueller is going do and it looks like rosenstein is continuing to buy time,

continuing to buy off these republicans by producing these documents. he took a very adversarial tone yesterday, really pushing back on them harder than he ever has and really basically saying look, we are giving you everything we can so t question is, is he capitulating to keep his job or is he trying to protect mueller? is that the larger thing that him and his deputy ed o'callahan who is sitting behind him overseeing the mueller investigation are doing? that's the most interesting part of this calculation that i find. >> susan del percio? >> michael, how far do you think republicans are willing to push rosenstein on this? are they concerned about any type of backlash? because he is in a position to -- yesterday he was rather polite but he can potentially slap them down a bit if they go

too far with some of their allegations. >> i don't think so. i think for them this is really working out well, they, like rudy giuliani, are throwing a lot of different things at the wall, they're creating a lot of good fox news soundbites, jim jordan, that kind of back-and-forth is perfect for their base and plays into this narrative. that's something giuliani and trump's folks have done very well, they made this a much more difficult thing for the average person to understand and follow. there's always these different accusations, they were helped by the ig report that made this fbi bias issue come to the forefront and the more they push that, the better. this is something that worked well for them and their base. the president tweeted witch-hunt far more than it ever has. >> it's not fact-based. objectively it's not fact based. objectively it was donald trump who was helped the most by the

fbi, who was helped the most by james comey, who was helped the most even by mccabe. mccabe leaks information that we seized upon, that everybody seized upon, that the fbi was then looking at the clinton foundation and, of course, that letter that comey sent out for some unknown reason in the way he did helped elect donald trump. everybody knows that. but you're says this is still good for him? >> this is not an exercise of intellectual honesty that's going on here. it's not. this is a political fight and they're trying to muddy the waters. and since giuliani came on, they have hit the gas harder on that issue and you have to come back to where this starts. it starts with the fbi, questions about the text messages that come out at the end of last year. it's the issues of bias that republicans have seized on. this is what they push. this is what fox news pushes and

for their base it has been effective. i don't know how you could deny that. >> well, some do. >> peter strzok who text ed som of the messages wanted to testify in public, republicans wouldn't let him. >> gene, i want to share with you a bad dream i have and tell me if it's going to become reality. we're watching guys like trey gowdy saying things like this is a witch-hunt, there's nothing proven and we've clearly gone over the indictments and guilty pleas to date. let's say -- and i believe that it will happen because of the way donald trump has done business -- that it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that donald trump knew about the meeting, had his hands at the controls -- >> not proven beyond a shadow of a doubt but it will be. >> when it comes out. but when it comes out and it will and the republicans still control the house, will they

still be calling the sky green? what will push it to the point? >> let's play this out and say this is six months from now. will they still and is this at the end of the day a futile exercise if the democrats don't take the house? >> yeah. look, i've been writing month after month after month democrats need to take the house. this congress will not hold this president accountable. they made it very clear. how better can they spill it out than what we saw yesterday? they won't hold donald trump accountable under any circumstances. i cannot imagine them actually even proper oversight of this administration let alone proper investigation let alone if

donald trump is personally implicated in russian meting. that's why this is such an important election. they have to win the house. there's a lot at stage. more than the fortunes of one political party. we're talking about the proper functioning of this democracy. and it's not going to work with the benjamin, one of the reasons it would be hard for donald trump to fire rod rosenstein is because as susan del percio pointed out earlier, they can't find the number three at the justice department and if they fired rod rosenstein or jeff sessions or anybody, the republicans in the senate would revote and certainly wouldn't pick anybody to replace him, nobody wants to work there given the sort of disgraceful show boating we saw yesterday on the hill. >> so if you're a possible

replacement for rod rosenstein after he's been fired -- and leave aside whether the senate would confirm such a person -- and you watched that hearing yesterday, you would have to be stark raving mad to accept an appointment to subject yourself to that to take over this investigation when there is a committed group of people in the house of representatives who run the place and, by the way, include the speaker of the house who are devoted to undermining your position, that would be -- that's an act of throwing yourself on a pike and i think it would be very difficult to get somebody competent and serious who was willing to take the job under these circumstances and, look, chris wray all but expressed regret for doing so yesterday. >> benjamin wittes, eugene

robinson and michael schmidt, great conversation. thank you all for being on. still ahead on "morning joe," migrant children as young as three years old ordered in court alone for deportation hearing hearings. how does that work, exactly? you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. with my bladder leakage, the products i've tried just didn't fit right. they were very saggy. it's getting in the way of our camping trips. but with new sizes, depend fit-flex is made for me. introducing more sizes for better comfort. new depend fit-flex underwear is guaranteed to be your best fit.

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attorneys in texas, california, and washington, d.c. say that migrant children as young as three years old are being ordered into court alone without their parents for their own deportation proceedings. i don't exactly understand how that works but we can try and find out. while unaccompanied minors have been going through this process for some time, the trump administration's family separation policy led to more young children, including toddlers, being affected. on capitol hill women marched on the senate office building singing "free our families" and

abolish i.c.e. democratic senators elizabeth warren and kirsten gillibrand spoke to the crowd. joining us now, jeff denham of california. after the compromise immigration bill failed in the house, the congressman penned an op-ed entitled balanced bipartisan solution needed on immigration refo reform. good to have you on board this morning. what do you think solves this problem? but there's two at this point? there's the huge issue of immigration which clearly we would be -- i think it wouldn't be honest to say there have been problems every step of the way for years and children in terrible situations every step of the way for years but this policy was imposed on families seeking asylum and we don't know how these children will be reunited. we don't know where some of them

are so we have on ongoing crisis created by this president and then the bigger issues of immigration. how do we approach this issue and is it possible? >> i think it's possible because we have to. congress operates under deadlines and there's never been a deadline on immigration other than this president putting a march 5 deadline out there for daca but the courts will self-impose a deadline just like we did with the discharge petition but we have to get this done. especially now where you're seeing kids being pulled away from their parents. they're not seeking asylum through our ports of entry vrj thi -- they're crossing the border illegally and saying they want asylum. so it's a conflict in current law which is why we have to pass a new law to fix this. >> where do you begin? what are you proposing and who will work with you on the other side of the aisle? >> i think on the overall dreamer issue we have a few partners on the democrat side.

there are extremes in both parties that want to politicize the issue and use it for political gain but there are enough of us that want to get it done in a bipartisan way. we were going that route on the discharge petition. we have to go along that route as we do narrow bills and the first has to be keeping families togeth together. i'm a father, i'd never let anybody take my kids away from me now matter how old they are. our challenge on the republican side is every time we propose an immigration bill we suddenly want to make it a big bill even though we said we wouldn't do a comprehensive bill. we have to deal with the kids being separated issue first and move on to dreamers but they have to happen quickly. >> you say they have to move quickly but what is that timeline?

does it have to happen by the end of next month? the month after. how do you get that done? and it seems to me the freedom caucus is holding members who want to work in a bipartisan way like yourself hostage. they're always threatening. when is it time for -- i don't even want to say moderate members but just responsible members to say to the freedom caucus and the leadership if necessary -- and i know you tried to do it with the discharge position but enough is enough and we will take this to where it has to go and leave them behind even though the president may be sour on what you propose. you are in a position to lead. when are we going to see that happen? >> i think you're seeing it now. we started with a rule first. i just spent time with the parliamentarian to learn the things the freedom caucus has gotten good at. how do you use parliamentary procedures to take down rules or

to stop your party from making big mistakes so we will make sure we are able to govern. if you're the majority party and you're elected to lead you better lead. >> when will we see a vote on the narrow bill? >> well, it was the amendment in our compromise bill. we have the language there, we should have saw it before we left town. we anticipate it will be one of the things we bring up next week but nothing moves quickly in congress. so we're taking the july 4 week in our district. that means at least two more weeks you'll see kids in this dire situation so now under the executive order you're keeping family units together but as you said you're having kids being treated differently. >> we live in a free society but we're still not letting -- not us, the government is still not

letting cameras see what is going on. what country have we become? we are not letting our press see if these children are okay. >> we have to look at the safety of the children first. there are privacy concerns there. but as we've seen media be able to block out faces or take pictures of the backs of these kids the conditions ought to be reported on. this isn't new. under the last two administrations we've had unaccompanied minors, thousands, come across the southern border every year that get bussed or airplane rides to different parts, here in new york and close to my home in california. that is nothing new, but pulling kids away from parents as they're coming across the border and criminal proceedings is something new. >> that's trump's policy announced by his attorney general in march. announced many times and then he backtracked and said he didn't

mean families would be separa d separated. he should look at what's happening in these -- are they detention centers? holding facilities? whatever you want to call them. the attorney general should look himself. congressman jeff denham, thank you very much. up next, democrats may not have the votes to block the president's next supreme court nominee but the "new york times" jeremy peters says there may be a way for democrats to level the playing field. he explains next on "morning joe." directv gives you more for your thing. if you've been waiting for a sign to quit cable, then here's some signs. it came from the toaster.

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>> i can handle the idea of donald trump being president for a few years. what blows my mind, though, is that he will be able to fundamentally reshape america for generations. donald trump is going to shape america. this guy. >> i'd like her right in n that fat ugly face of hers and say rosie, you're fired. >> the power to redefine what america is. this guy. >> bing, bing, bong, bong, bing, bing, bing. [ laughter ] >> seriously? this guy. >> trump steaks are by far the best tasting most flavorful beef

you've ever had. >> out of all the people it could have been, it's this guy? >> i've said that if ivanka weren't my daughter perhaps i'd be dating her. >> ew. joining us now, "new york times" reporter jeremy peters. also with us, founder of cnbc, contributor tom rogers. tom is former ceo of tivo and former president of nbc cable. he serves as the executive chairman of winview and served as counsel to a congressional committee. good to have you on board. >> great having you with us. t tom. you raise an interesting question and suggest that the democrats neutralize the nuclear opti option. >> you write this in your piece, which is fascinating. "many may be surprised to learn that the constitution does not specify the number of justices on the supreme court, it only

dictate there is be such a court. it has been left to congress to determine the size of the court. the judiciary act of 1789 set the number at six. in 1807 congress raised the number to seven. amended in 1837 to nine. 1863 raised to 10, 1866 set back to seven. in 1869 it was changed again back to nine. if the democrats take the house, senate and presidency in 2020 this neutralization of the nuclear option by expanding the court is very viable. moreover, there is much his store kag precedent for doing o so. the democrats could simply increase the number of justices to neutralize any ideologically extreme appointments that president trump is successful from making in this point in time on forward. >> this obviously several years ago would have been a laughable premise and then mitch mcconnell

decided he was going to change the rules. well, the democrats decided first we'll change the rules so we don't need a filibuster proof 60 to vote on federal judges. then republicans switched it to 50. did the same thing for the supreme court first time ever. then mitch mcconnell decided we won't even have a hearing. we won't even let him come to capitol hill and talk to us so ben wittes and miguel estrada, a man treated horrifically by senate democrats because he's a hispanic, that simple, a conservative hispanic, was treated horrific alally, they we a column for the "washington post" say iing let's stop pretending there are rules. there are no rules on how we appoint justices. and that scenario, why wouldn't a part yy in power later on say

it's been changed one, two, three, four, five, six times already. so constitutionally congress has the right to change it a seventh time. maybe we'll make it 10, maybe 1 11. maybe we'll make it 12. but wouldn't you create a climate where there are no rules then you have to understand the other side is going to respond accordingly. that's what these republicans don't seem to understand. >> they don't but all the commentary on every channel over and over again is hey if they get the appointment through it will change the direction of the country for a generation or more. the fact is, just because of what you said, they may change the direction of the courts for the next two years but the democrats win the presidency and house and senate, they have the ability, not just doing what you said, the more recent actions which are without historical precedent but to go back and

increase the [abort] there has been plenty of precedent. if we do this, this is about restoring centrist moderation to the court. putting an additional justice on for every far right justice -- >> the logic doesn't matter. what the court will be looking at is precedent and there is precedent for the united states congress doing this. this reminds me of what i said to republicans in 1999 when we were talking about impeachment. i said you all are acting -- at the beginning when it was like republicans are going to be minority forever. like we're never going to be in the white house again. you better start judging this impeachment process and the decisions you make understanding the next president may be a

republican. and the next year, of course, bush was the president. >> i guess what's also concerning is that we take these actions and take such a substantial action simply because we didn't like the result of an election. because we don't like the current president. that makes me a little uncomfortable when we start looking at why we change the face of the court. that's just in political interest. i understand the fight from the democrats' side. they wouldn't need to get control of all three but have 630 in t60 in the senate. >> not necessarily. under the mcconnell rule 51 is what you need for the supreme court. they could amend the senate rule and make it for legislation defining the size of the court. >> why hasn't it been changed in so many years? >> interestingly, the reason it went up and down for so many years is supreme court justices used to have to travel to sit

with the so-called circuit courts, the courts of appeals and each justice had a specific area so as they increased the number of circuits they increased the size of the court. it got political during the time of andrew johnson where lincoln expanded the size of the court to 10. noted, the father of the republican party expanded the court to 10. they wanted to reduce abilities of johnson to make appointments, brought it down to seven. then it was brought up to nine. it stayed at nine. fdr tried to bring it up to 15 but the fact is there is an immediate response -- again, all about elections and taking both houses and the presidency but if they do it there's nothing that says what trump does here defines a generation or more of the court. >> we're talking about what mitch mcconnell did, you can talk about what both sides have

done. what chuck schumer did to miguel estrada and others. you can talk about legislation. barack obama changing one-sixth of america's health care based on majority vote. getting 50 votes in the united states senate. that's shocking as well so we have set up an environment where there are no rules, no traditions, no history. whether you're talking about court justices or health care reform, so the supreme court if you look at how john roberts has been ruled in the past it's always been i'm not going to get involved in your business, you guys figure this out, you all have gone down this path. you all clean it up. >> it's scary when these pillars start to crumble around us. jeremy, you have a great piece that this is basically what the republicans live for, it's in

their dna. they've been bourqued in the past and you have people lining up with a lot of money to make sure this falls their way. >> one of the smartest democratic strategists i know when the kennedy news broke texted me in a despondent tone saying this is very, very bad because the right is better at this than we are. and it's so much more central to the political culture of the republican party, these supreme court battles, because they've been on the losing end of the culture wars for so long, often because of anthony kennedy's vote and the right sends to see the battles in terms of 20, 30, 40 years. and for them this is the culmination of that. the ability to flip the kennedy seat to somebody who is more reliably conservative. this is the reason they voted

for donald trump. republicans, the polling shows, vote more based on the supreme court. it's more of a driving factor than it is for democrats. >> and jeremy in large part it comes from the person who kennedy actually replaced -- not replaced, i think ginsburg -- it was bourque then ginsburg, he smoked pot once so he got pushed to the side but bourque was forever a scar on american conservatives. the way he was bourqued with ted kennedy's speech on the senate floor which i will say even today was horrific and we conservatives looked at the moment that sandra day o'connor didn't always vote the way we thought she was going to vote, kennedy didn't vote the way he was supposed to vote and souter, souter, good lord.

so conservatives have not gotten the court right in all these years. they're ready to get their fifth solid solid vote. >> exactly. that's why they had donald trump sign a list. remember, this was unprecedented. never had a presidential candidate said, here, i'm going to give dwryou the names of the people i will appoint to court so you will not get suitered. they carry the scars, republicans do of previous confirmation fights because they have been so betrayed in the past. don't forget about harriet myers because the right felt she wasn't conservative enough. they have gotten it wrong. you are right. it's amazing to think, ronald reagan, the conservative lion of the last generation appointed sandra day o'connor and anthony

kennedy, two really, like the betten wars for conservatives in a lot of cases on abortion and affirmative action and gay rights. >> he elevated chief justice scalia. >> joe, for something people are afraid of, ginsburg is 85 and the oldest is clarence thomas who is 75. >> quick final thoughts? >> mitch mcconnell thinks his legacy is delivering the court for generations to come. i predict if they push it through on the 51 vote, the democrats are going to be left with a tactic i suggest here and he is going to be the catalyst for the counter reaction that delivers the court to the democrats through expanding the court. >> tom rogers, thank you very much. darren peters, great to have you on as well. thank you both. still ahead, we'll bring in

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white house chief of staff,kelly's days my be winding down. he may leave his post. >> stop us, if you have heard this before. >> kelly may step down as early as summer, possibly sooner. kelly told colleagues he doesn't intend to stay beyond jewel 31st. nbc news reported in late april the current and former white house officials expected kelly to leave in july, saying the chief of staff and president had tired of one another. stop us if you have heard that before. according to both the journal and politico, the president is

considering at least two candidates to replace kelly. vice president pence's chief of staff and anymore mulvaney. maybe. >> donny, these two have always butted heads, but, you know, john kelly doesn't need it. donald trump doesn't want it. >> yeah. i always felt better that kelly was there, there was a grown up in the room and clearly the two don't have much of a relationship now. i don't think it matters who is in that job. i don't think it matters. any other job than the guy sitting in the seat. >> he did his best, perhaps, but the chaos reigns supreme. donald trump lost all control of himself the last two, three, four weeks. it's obvious the russia investigation as well as cohen out there is just gotten to him. >> it's gotten to him, but i

keep thinking, now there is one. mattis. the one concern everyone had when the president was elected, what was his policy team going to look like, foreign affairs. now, three of the four people everyone had faith in is gone. there's general mattis left. >> wow. all right, still ahead, deputy attorney general stand their ground against the fiercest republican critics. more key moments, straight ahead on "morning joe." ery different s and pampers gives all of them our driest best fitting diaper. pampers cruisers with three-way fit. they adapt at the waist, legs and bottom with up to twelve hours of protection for all the freedom to move their way in pampers cruisers only pampers diapers are the number one choice of hospitals, nurses and parents.

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they keep talking about 13 angry democrats that are running the investigation. >> congressman, i'm trying to do this job apolitically. i consider myself -- i do not consider myself an angry democrat. >> okay. are you a democrat? >> no, i'm not. >> mr. rosenstein, are you a democrat? >> i'm not a democrat and i'm not angry. >> you know who else isn't a democrat? probably not angry, either. bob mueller. >> he's not angry, that's for sure. angry is not the word. >> he is very clear on what he is doing. >> focused. he is a focused republican. >> calm. not angry. >> lifelong republican. >> good morning, everyone. >> unlike a lot of those republicans yesterday that were on that committee, they were sort of unhinged. they were really angry and unhinged. >> they were on fire. >> just spewing a lot of facts that weren't true.

they were so angry. >> ugly. >> for an fbi director like a lifelong republican for robert wray -- chris wray, i mean, he committed his life like this. donald trump asking this fbi director. such a great job, doing a great job, lifelong republican. rod rose enstein, the lifelong republican. >> answering questions. >> they are yelling and shouting at him. for them to be so unhinged and screaming and yelling at the top law enforcement officers, americans are saying why are they so angry? why are they screaming and yelling? why are they so unhinged in. >> they are worried. it's that simple. i thought trey gowdy would do it with the tie undone, leaning over. they are worried. if you are backed in a corner

and think a train is coming, you are worried. >> i would be worried if i were wearing a bow tie like you today. >> what's going on here. >> i know you are going to the hamptons this weekend, but this does not work for you. >> what's going on. >> it's satorial splendor. this is a vest. >> no, please don't ever, ever wear that again. >> the kids that watch "morning joe." >> we don't have kids watching, thank god. >> this is a blend. >> the kids that watch "morning joe" stop me in the street and say donny, what are you wearing this weekend? >> with us, you have donny deutsche. we regret it. republican strategist -- >> see what 400 million dollar gets you. >> that number you threw out there, the number is robust. it's good it wut oas out there.

>> republican strategist susan dell percy is here with us. also from the northern district of alabama and msnbc contributor joyce fance and jake sherman. he has no choice but to be here. pulitzer prize winner, eugene robinson, you could get up and go if you wanted to, gene. >> i wish i had a suit like donny's. >> no, you don't. >> gene, you and i talk fashion a lot. help me out here, sir. >> come on. >> coming up this morning, there's so much to get to, it's hard to know what to start with. president trump reaches out to red state democrats why they try to woo moderate republicans. the latest on the deadly shooting in maryland where a gunman opened fire on the "capital gazette" knews room.

that is straight ahead. new reporting shows migrant children, stay with me here, as young as 3 years old are ordered into court, alone, for their deportation proceeding. let me give you a mental picture. we had a 3-year-old climbing up on the table at his own hearing, there alone. >> it actually shows you, joyce, it shows you how propostrouse this is that -- >> if we needed a mental picture. >> that donald trump's centralized stay. all these congressmen are screaming and yelling and unhinged and losing, they are just making fools of themselves. they are concerned about properly executed fisa warrants that have been approved three times four. by the way, lying, trying to put words in rod rosenstein's mouth, unhinged about that and yet, at the american border, you have toddlers who are being taken

into court and are being represented in front of judges who are climbing up on tables. >> you know, it's been a week of stark contrasts. i think that is absolutely the worst one. we have this propostrouse exchange where rod rosenstein is accused of lying and there's no outcry on the hill. >> they are berating rod rosenstein and not letting him finish his statements and obviously playing to their home crowd. why doesn't their home crowd care about 3-year-old infants? they would rather beat up two loyal republicans, i guess. i don't understand why they are yelling and screaming and being unhinged at those loyal republicans who are law enforcement officers, yet they don't care at all about these 3-year-old kids that are being dragged into court. >> away from their parents. >> the truth is that process has

been broken for a long time. if there's a silver lining, it's the flashlight shined on it. that has to end. the idea of a 2, 3-year-old child in a courtroom with no lawyer and no attorney to defend them, it's a mockery of justice. >> it's impossible to believe, but we hear they could break it more. it has been done. >> you would hope if they were going to become unhinged and angry about something, it would be about 3-month-old children ripped from their mother's arms and put on buses and driven 2,000 miles. they don't know where these kids are. nobody knows where the kids are. the red cross saying, we are not being kept out. the red cross, i don't think, i haven't heard, i don't think they are allowed to go into these facilities. there's black sites. we don't know where the kids are. we don't know when they are going to be reunited with their parents yet you have republicans

on capitol hill and the house. the senate would never behave this way, not this senate. they are running a bipartisan investigation because they care. they want to find out what vladimir putin did in the two years leading up to the 2016 campaign. >> he did nothing. trump said he did nothing. >> unfortunately for the republicans that were unhinged yesterday, unfortunately, vladimir putin did. you actually had the head of the fbi -- >> donald trump said he didn't, though. >> trump's cia director is now trump's secretary of state. you can go down the list. they all said it, mika. they all said vladimir putin was trying to rig that election. he's still trying to rig the 2018 election. >> the president of the united states is pushing back. >> yeah. he said he didn't so he obvious obviously didn't. >> the president doesn't care,

in fact, he's having a summit with him. republicans used to stand-up. we republicans used to stand-up against the russians. i guess, though, you don't if you are jim jordan. >> no, my goodness gracious. >> trey gowdy, yesterday, was going crazy, coming unhinged about how long this investigation was. benghazi was twice as long. i didn't hear trey gowdy or republicans become unhinged about that. >> house republicans passed a nonbinding measure demanding the justice department produce sensitive documents about the russia investigation within the next seven days with some threatening to impeach deputy attorney general rod rosenstein. >> let me get this straight. they want the fbi and justice department to release sensitive documents about an ongoing investigation against russia? >> mm-hmm. >> that says just about

everything you need to know about how unhinged they are. >> here is more. alongside fbi director, christopher wray, rosenstein appears where republican lawmakers berated him with accusations. >> mr. rosenstein, why are you keeping information from congress? >> congressman, i am not keeping information from congress. >> in a few minutes, i think the house of representatives is going to say something different. >> i don't agree with you congressman. >> i think -- i think, i don't know why you won't give us what we asked for. >> i certainly hope your colleagues are not under that impression. that is not accurate, sir. >> it is accurate. we caught you -- >> will you allow the witness to answer? >> hiding information. >> a statement that i am keeping information from you. >> you are the boss, mr. rosenstein. >> that's direct. my job is to respond to your

concerns. we have. my understanding is it is going very well, sir. you are using this to attack me -- >> may the witness be permitted? >> it's not personal. i appreciate your service, it's not personal. we want the information. >> i appreciate you saying it's not personal, sometimes it feels that way. >> being a former felony state judge, if i had somebody like you come before me and now the guy that signed and approved an application for a warrant had not read the application that would allow spying on somebody -- >> that would be atrocious. >> i would look at everything he signed from then on with a jaundice eye. i was concerned -- >> give me a chance to explain, sir. >> you have. >> no, i have not. >> mr. rosenstein, did you threaten staffers on the house intelligence committee?

reports indicate you did. >> media reports are mistaken. >> sometimes. but this is what they said. having the nation's number one law enforcement officer threaten to subpoena your calls and e-mail is down right chilling. did you threaten that. >> no no, sir and there's no way to subpoena phone calls. >> i'm just saying. >> hmm. >> susan, um, you just wonder why these republicans are so unhinged. i know donald trump is unhinged. i know that he sends out unhinged, all cap tweets all the time. but, if you saw the testimony, if you listen to the testimony, rod rosenstein, time and time again, they were mischaracterizeing everything that happened in that investigation. all they would do is unhinge and yelling at him and they were making accusations that were

false and then when he finally got a chance to speak, he would say exactly what had happened and that is what's happening inside there. a fair reading of the facts show that he is doing a great job. why, why were the republicans so unhinged and acting crazy yesterday? >> the only thing i think is they think it's a casting call. they are auditioning with donald trump or a dig after they are done with their role in congress. when they are done with their public service. if you want to see what public servants are, look at rod rosenstein and director wray. they serve with integrity. what we saw yesterday was so disrespectful to the american public, not to those gentlemen, but all of us as americans. they don't care about finding the truth. they want to get their name and face on tv. and maybe please donald trump because they want to get something down the road. still ahead on "morning

joe," we'll talk to someone who was in the hearing yesterday. the ranking member of the house jerry nadler joins us. plus, trey gowdy led the benghazi investigation for two years. >> two and a half years, but he did shut it down after hillary lost. >> funny thing, he says bob mueller's investigation is taking too long. >> really? those numbers don't really add up, if you look. it was almost 3,000 days. >> that looks like hypocrisy. >> oh, it doesn't look like it. >> maybe it is. it doesn't look like it or smell like it, it is. just there, staring you in the face. first, let's go to bill karins with a check on the red hot forecast. bill? >> throw these numbers around. an impressive heat wave. 79 million people are under heat advisories, watches or warnings. the warnings today, chicago, st. louis, little rock, kansas city and minneapolis. that means limit your time

outside, especially if you have respiratory issues. check on the elderly to see how they are doing. now, for dangerous heat today, 220 million people, 90 degree heat index. 90 million will be 100 plus. that's a good chunk of the country. two-thirds of the country in this heat wave. who will be the hottest? who are the bigger numbers? the heat index is how it feels in the shade when you add in the humidity. 107 in little rock. 106 in chicago. 106 in kansas city. the south is hot, hasn't changed, it's been that way for a while. saturday, the dangerous heat creeps to the north. indianapolis, 98. des moines, 104. raleigh, 98. sunday, we see the peek in the northeast. look at new york city. high of 98 with a heat index of 105 degrees. it doesn't happen that often in new york city. maybe once or twice. the southeast is cooler. you are going to have showers and thunderstorms. that heat wave, by the way,

continues into monday. washington, d.c., feeling like 103. some other areas begin to cool off. for the northeast, we are talking five to six days in a row with temperatures over 90 degrees. that's a long-lived and prolonged heat wave. new york city into the 90s. the humidity levels are lower. sunday, you will feel it. you are watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. you always get the lowest price on our rooms, guaranteed?m let's get someone to say it with a really low voice. carl? lowest price guaranteed. what about the world's lowest limbo stick? how low can you go? nice one, carl. hey i've got an idea. just say, badda book. badda boom. badda book. badda boom. nice. always the lowest price, guaranteed. book now at choicehotels.com

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it all started when donald trump tore thousands of immigrant children

away from their parents. we the people challenged him in court and in the streets. then trump was forced to admit that his policy was wrong. and he caved. the court just ruled that trump must reunite every family he broke apart. (clock ticking rapidly) time is ticking. these children must see their parents again, and they're counting on us to act quickly.

russia isn't being hurt by the investigation right now, we are. this country is being hurt by it. we are being divided. we have seen the bias. we have seen the bias. we need to see the evidence. if you have evidence of wrong doing by any member of the trump campaign, present it to the damn grand jury. if you have evidence this president acted inappropriately,

present it to the american people. whatever you got, finish it the hell up. >> for trey gowdy to say that, we'll give him a break, he never practiced law or went to law school. in fact, i think he was a plumber before he got there. he doesn't understand the law or the investigation so let's give him a free pass. for the rest of you who aren't lawyers, let's just -- >> and joyce can help out. >> joyce, you can help out, you are a lawyer. i went to law school, but i was never a good lawyer. >> joyce is very talented. >> this russia investigation, a fraction of the special prosecutors investigations, it's at about the 400 day mark. >> interesting. >> iran-contra. that lasted 2420 days. whitewater, which all republicans were sharing, they loved that one. that was a good one, whitewater.

seemed like the thing to do for an entire decade. 2,978 days. i didn't hear trey gowdy or anybody else say hurry the hell up. gowdy's investigation, i don't know if he remembers this, it was 297 days and filed the final report in december, 2016, a month after hillary clinton, i'm not making this up, i promise, i'm not making this up, filed it after she lost the presidential campaign. >> it was important to him. >> 14 months after the republican house majority leader, kevin mccarthy said this. >> everybody thought hillary clinton was unbeatable, right? we put together a benghazi special committee, a select committee. what are her numbers today? her numbers are dropping. >> wow. >> guess what?

also trey gowdy said nothing has been proved, just bias. nobody in the trump campaign did wrong. this is bias. if you have evidence, prove it. i must tell you, congressman gowdy, that is a cold comfort to paul manafort who actually, i know congressman gowdy, you weren't actually around during the russian campaign, not the russian campaign, a lot of people call it the russian campaign, donald trump's campaign. paul manafort was actually donald trump's campaign chairman. donald trump told me during the campaign he had to hire manafort if he wanted to win the republican nomination because manafort knew how to get delegates. so, manafort indicted, sitting in jail, congressman dowdy. michael flynn, who was the guy that donald trump and all his campaign people told me flew

around with donald trump everywhere because she kept him calm. michael flynn, congressman dowdy, guilty. he's also donald trump's first national security adviser. rick gates a top campaign aide helped believe it or not in the transition, guilty, accused by mueller. i get tired of repeating this, but if republicans are cursed with short-term memory loss on capitol hill, i feel it a public service to keep reminding them. tray gowdy said nothing happened to anybody involved in the campaign. george papadopoulos, a man donald trump told in spring of 2016 he was one of his top two foreign policy advisers. guilty, also, cooperating.

coming up on "morning joe," the latest in the fight to replace justice kennedy. why it may be a lose/lose thing for red state democrats. "morning joe" is coming right back. directv gives you more for your thing. if you've been waiting for a sign to quit cable, then here's some signs. it came from the toaster. now you can quit cable. switch to directv and now get a $100 reward card. more for your quitting cable thing. that's our thing.

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what i said in 2016 is that we shouldn't fill a supreme court vacancy in the middle of a presidential election year. the last time i looked, there's no presidential election this year. in fact, three current members of the u.s. supreme court were completed in election years, nonpresidential election years and the president's nominee to the kennedy vacancy will be confirmed in a nonpresidential election election year. >> we have politico's jake sherman here. new reporting in the playbook about the supreme court fight and how it is playing out. tell us about it. >> that's right. joe manchin and several democrats were there. it's becoming clear democrats are absolutely in play when it

comes to the supreme court nomination that is going to come down in this midterm election year and we'll see who trump picks and it could go beyond those three senators. there are a couple candidates from michigan. debbie stabenow from michigan is up for re-election. she could consider some of these nominees. i think it's obviously extraordinarily volatile situation for senate democrats and it's going to infuriate the democratic base if, obviously, any of these democratic senators vote for trump supreme court nominee. >> we haven't seen, six months ago, we were talking about how hard it would be for republican senators to hug donald trump in the general election, then run in the swing states. i mean, it was sort of a lose/lose situation. i think you have the same

situation with these three or so democrats. first of all, how do you run in west virginia, indiana or north dakota if you vote against donald trump's supreme court choice, and then, how do you stay in the democratic party if you are the one that helps them, donald trump put a second person on the supreme court before the election? i mean, it's a lose/lose situation. it's almost like, okay, i can vote with donald trump again on the most important thing in the democratic base. after i do that, i have to switch parties. >> yeah, you are between the rock and hard place if you are manchin. you are in trouble because they really need to worry about the democratic party and the democratic base, which is in no mood to roll over on this

nomination. let's be real, donald trump will get to make this nomination, whether before the election or after the election. it will be somebody that most democrats don't want and don't like. so, in that sense, the republican party is going to lose this fight. they have to wage this fight, i think. and the base will not settle for not having a fight. they need to motivate people to vote in november. there's a lot at stake and, you know, the senate is a heavy lift for democrats. the house, very much in play. they need people to come out and vote. i think, to get people out to vote, they are going to have to show spirit and some resolve on this. >> you know, when people look back at hillary clinton's loss in 2016, there's a lot of focus on those white, working class guys that voted for o blbama an

trump. there's not enough focus that the democratic base, black democrats, hispanic democrats did not go out in sufficient numbers for hillary clinton to win. if you are heidi or manchin or donnelly and you want democrats to come out in big numbers for you to win, you can vote for donald trump's supreme court nominee or you will have the political mark of cane in on yo the lest of your life. swh >> what democrats are realizing, to make this an issue, they cannot talk it is unfair for mcconnell, as good of an argument as it might be, that they can give this hearing. what democrats are saying is we need to focus on the fact that this justice is going to, in their estimation, roll back rights for abortion.

they are going to -- this nominee is going to presumably rollback health care rights. they need to make an argument that doesn't have to do with process. the supreme court has been, for many, many years, a massive issue for republicans and for republican turnout. it has not been the same g galvanizing issue for democrats. up next, the top democrat on the house committee bumped heads with the fbi director. jerry nadler joins us next on "morning joe."

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who are we supposed to believe? staff members who we have worked with who never misled us or you guys we caught hiding information from us and tell a witness not to answer our

questions. who are we supposed to believe. >> thank you for making it clear it's not personal. you should believe me because i am telling the truth and am under oath. >> joining us now, jerry nadler of new york. thank you for being here this morning. >> thank you. i have a couple quick questions of what happened in new york this past week. a huge upset nobody saw coming. how did that happen? why did it happen? any insights a few days later? >> well, i think the analysis is going to go on for a long time. it was a tremendous change in the district. this should be something like 60% hispanic, very southern groups. joe hadn't kept on top of that, beyond that, i can't say. >> something that i picked up by looking at the returns afterwards, i'm surprised in new

york, in all the primaries, how low the voter turnout is. three, four, five, six, seven percent. >> ten or 12 is low enough. >> why is that? is it something about new york? it's shocking to me. >> new york turnouts have been trending downward for a long time. in particular, all our primaries for governor on down are in september, except congress, which is in june. nobody is used to voting in june. the people in joe's district hadn't voted in june in 40 years until last week. so, it's very hard to get people out to vote in june. when they are thinking, if they are thinking at all about a primary, it's in september. that's the primary. normally, we have several things on the ballot. together, they turnout. there's only one thing on the ballot, everything else is a few

months later -- >> yeah. what about nancy pelosi after the victory, the question was asked, should nancy still be -- should nancy be the democrats leader come next january. how is that turning out? how is that going to turn out? >> i don't know. personally, i think she has been a good leader, one of our best legislative crafts people in the way she got the affordable care act through, for example. but, you have a number of democratic candidates saying they won't vote for her. if, god willing we get the majority, and it's a big enough majority, i presume she will be re-elected speaker. if it's a narrow majority, you have a number of people say we won't vote for her and you can't get to 18, you have to -- things will get interesting. >> speaking of interesting,

yesterday, that hearing where we had two republicans, a republican fbi director and a republican deputy attorney general who were treated with respect by republicans in the senate and by the law enforcement community were berated by a handful of republican house members yesterday. they seemed unhinged and, i think, for most, it was a shocking spectacle. what was going on? >> this is a continuation of the attempt -- these republicans, jim jordan, trey gowdy, they are working hand in glove with the white house, trying to defame and discredit the fbi, the department of justice and special prosecutor, special counsel mueller and everybody associated with them. >> all republicans. the two men we saw yesterday were trump appointed. >> it's a very deliberate campaign to try to defame and discredit the investigation so

when it comes out with a report, the jury pool, the american people will have been poisoned against it. what is very interesting is that mueller and company cannot defend themselves. they are behaving properly. no leaks out of the investigation. all we know about the investigation is we know about the 20 indictments, the five guilty pleas. we know only what's been filed in court. we don't know the justification or anything else. >> we do know what rudy giuliani has leaked. the only leak has come from rudy. >> you said something interesting saying we are screwed being the democratic third party. no, we are not. now we fight, not just for ourselves but for our children, other people's children, women, black, brown, lgbt folks. a, what does the fight look like and b, there was a kerfuffle you

had on the floor that broke out yesterday? >> no. i don't know what you are talking about there. i had a vigorous debate. i led the opposition to the resolution demanding that the justice department produce documents that the justice department cannot produce. it cannot produce records of an ongoing criminal investigation, scoping documents that delineate the lines of inquiry and the judiciary republicans, both in the committee you saw that yesterday on the floor and we passed the resolution. you have to produce these documents or else they are demanding what they cannot produce, by law. the obvious reason is to give them more ammunition to defame and discredit -- >> i want you to go back. the democratic party, to me, is

lacking fight. those are fighting words you use. what do you do? you are in charge of dnc and every race that is happening. you see what is coming on as far as the supreme court. i still see them sleepwalking. >> i don't agree with people sleepwalking. inherently, the president of the party has the bully pulpit. he gets the coverage, whatever he says or tweets or whatever. the other party, the nonpresidential party gets covered moreso, if they have the majority in one house or the other. we are always putting out information and fighting at everything level. i'm not aware of what else we could be doing. i don't know how you say democrats in congress are sleepwalking. we are attacking all the time. we are using every means at our

disposal. when you see democratic members of congress going to ins facilities, going to the border, et cetera, whatever else that is. >> definitely see that happening. we appreciate it. what happened in that district there? what happened there? >> obviously, the district changed and joe didn't keep in touch with it enough. >> congressman jerry nadler. >> thank you for being on. up next, the money party returns. i can't believe this. dylan ratigan will be here on set. >> no way. no way. >> after his run for congress. keep it here on "morning joe." o? o? staff meeting. noon? eating. 3:45? uh, compliance training. 6:30? sam's baseball practice. 8:30? tai chi. yeah, so sounds relaxing. alright, 9:53? i usually make their lunches then, and i have a little vegan so wow, you are busy. wouldn't it be great if you had investments that worked as hard as you do? yeah. introducing essential portfolios.

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neutrogena®. see what's possible. . mika, i can't believe it. i can't believe it. >> i don't know what's going on here. >> you know what's going on here. >> it's a step back in time. >> ladies and gentlemen, it's a party. money party is back. it's money party, until, of course, somebody does what money party did on september 15th. >> oh, stop it. >> with us now, former msnbc host and future united states congressman, you heard it here first -- >> what? >> -- dylan ratigan, a successful run in new york's 21st congressional district finishing with the second most votes in the primary on tuesday. reminds me of a guy named bill clinton, who lost his first race. that was for congress. reminds me of a guy, george w.

bush, who in 1978 lost his first race in politics for congress and look what happened. >> him. >> you look good though, joe. >> he's already a politician. you look good. hey, hey, you've lost so much weight. how much weight have you lost? what diet are you on? i swear -- um -- >> i think american politics are broken. have you heard? >> well, but any party, though, you come here today -- >> mp. >> mp. not member of parliament but money party. you did something i wish everybody would do and that is get out, get involved, run for office, just so you could see just how difficult it is. you go from being everybody's friend to suddenly being suspect number one. there's nothing you do once you're running for something

where people don't suspect your every motive. i remember showing up and somebody saying, oh, you're only going to church because -- i said, buddy, my parents have made sure i've been here every sunday since i was 14 years old. i went to training union. i was here friday night. but you know what, they don't care, you're there -- >> you're opportunistic. >> it's tough. >> yes. >> it makes you respect, though, people that put on the uniform and get in the arena, right? >> my -- the change in my appreciation for the reality of what it takes to actually exist, let alone succeed, has changed me for the rest of my life because of the details. you don't know it until you do it. my sense of both the opportunity -- i guess to be a little bit less self-reverential. this whole thing is happening around this country. i think we'll have the biggest

political year since 196. i think when you saw five, six, seven, eight, in every primary, i think you guys are going to have an incredible year. this country is going to have an incredibly engage-year-old. so in other words, when you look at the problems with the political system, the contrast, the other side of the problems we have is the opportunity. and when you have the problem as big as the problems are that we have and when you have the appreciation and the respect for the process, when you actually -- >> what did you learn? what was your biggest lesson? the big takeaway? as donny deutsch would say, the big idea? >> yeah. >> the connection with human beings. when you have to go over the hurdle of skepticism in this tribalistic culture is almost impossible. >> you were just running in the democratic primary. >> doesn't matter. there's still tribalism in the democratic party primary.

there are 10 candidates. there are 5 candidate. the challenge to moving to communicate with another human being who has decided joe's in church because he's an opportunistic. dylan's at the heroin clinic in watertown because he's opportunistic. the challenge in getting over the hurdle is one of the greatest risks to this country i think because bright matter systems recruit for extremism and reward character assassination. politicians whose skills are extremism and character assassination and that's something we really need to figure out. >> when you were running, i read you had some very commonsense solutions. people would ask you questions and you were just labeled and thrown off as not being one of us. you couldn't be. how hard was it when, we know you, we know you love the policy behind it, how hard was it to talk about that and get slammed for -- >> it was heartbreaking.

it was heartbreaking. you walk into a room with a genuine desire -- i wanted to reconnect voters with the government and drive with pride and purpose in upstate new york which is a jewel, but has been largely neglected. there's all this opportunity for prosperity in that part of the world. and it was frustrating to experience the not being heard. at the same time, having worked here, having been a cable -- a news host, people say a lot of mean things about you when you do this job too. the meanness was -- sometimes you appreciate -- like, that was a pretty good one. like -- that was pretty insulting. true, but that's pretty good. no, it's frustrating, it's obviously -- it's frustrating, but i come with good news, which is that american engagement in our political system is the highest since 1968. you're going to see an

incredible political year in terms of overall engagement and i believe that is very good for our democracy. >> can we talk about money? >> any time you want. >> because there's a money party going on again. >> who's the host? >> you said there's a money party. >> that was my opening line, first day i met you. >> everybody's got money. you need money? i got money. we'll give you money. it's a money party. >> we'll take a bunch of money and throw it around. >> guess what, money's for free. so this is my question. >> yes. >> there are starting to be some signs out there, some concerns, that this money party, like the money party we were having through september the 14th, 2012, is about to come to an end. >> uh-huh. >> you have concerned about that? >> i mean, i have concerned about it, but i also know what they did with dodd/frank, to rewire the connection between the big banks and the federal reserve. so their ability to intervene is much different today than it was when the original financial

crisis happened. so the ability to mitigate anything that happened is actually much higher. now, you can argue -- >> the banks are stronger. >> the banks have a direct connect to the federal reserve. i mean, emanuel's speech when he was whipping votes for dodd/frank, he said if you want to have a vote, i suggest you vote yes to dodd/frank. the real issue with this economy is not the financial crisis, it's are we driving investment into places like upstate new york, into the places into pennsylvania, ohio, into rural america. or are we continuing to draw resources out? and as we draw resources out, we create more alienation, more fear, more frustration. and that's really where we need to drive our policy conversations. >> dylan, thank you so much. come back, money party. you look good. you're looking great. by the way, let me just say to this camera, to the people of upstate new york, money party,

dylan ratigan, he is your general macarthur. he shall return. >> and i really appreciate your insights of what it was like to be out there working on a grassroots level, trying to launch a political campaign. we appreciate your serving and committing yourself to it and we hope you try again. >> do it again. second time, easy for you to say, buddy. >> no, actually, he's been there. thank you, dylan. so before we go, we want to take, now, to remember the shooting victims at the capital gazette. american journalists gunned down at their place of work. it's their friends and their family who are telling their stories and we have them. reporter and news editor john mcnamara went by the nickname mack and spent decades living his dream, writing about sports, particularly his alma mater, university of maryland. assistant editor rob hiaasen

celebrated his 33rd wedding anniversary last week. yesterday was his wife's birthday. they have three kids. colleagues remember hiaasen for his humor. he was 59. 65-year-old reporter wendi winters chronicled her community, writing around 250 articles every year. a mother of four. journalism was a second career. winter's daughter said her life was a gift to everyone who knew her. editorial writer gerald fishman started at the gazette more than 25 years ago in 1992. the newsroom marveled when he married late in life to an opera singer from mongolia who he had met online. rebecca smith recently joined the sales office. a maryland native and self-described first class field hockey player in high school. she was engaged to be married and enjoyed time with her fiance's daughter. calling herself bonus mom to the best kid ever.

she was 34 years old. >> such a tragedy. but the capital gazette, as this tragedy was unfolding, kept their head down, and told everybody that they were going to keep the presses going, despite the fact that their newsroom looked like a war zone. just hours before they all came together and they put together an addition that they released this morning. and of course the shocking headline, a headline that we see too often, on mass shootings. but here, five shot dead at the capital. >> and, you know, newsrooms are, they're families, they're family units really. so we really -- i felt this one.

and we are praying for everybody who has suffered a loss at the capital gazette. what a week. another week of "morning joe" and another week of trying to figure out what's going on in washington and in this country. >> well, thank you so much for watching this week. and we hope that you and your family have a good safe weekend. we'll see you on monday. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much, joe, thanks, mika. i'm stephanie ruhle with a lot to cover, starting with those five people killed. two injured. when a gunman burst into the offices of one of the oldest newspapers in the country and he opened fire. >> that was a targeted attack on the capital gazette. his intent was to cause harm. >> the president and others in our nation's capital offering their thoughts and prayers to the