we only have 15 seconds. >> last word. trump doesn't believe there are any better angels to our nature. >> right. he rode that belief to victory. time to wake up angels. my thanks. that does it for our hour. i'm nicolle wallace. i'll see you back here on monday for deadline: white house at 4:00 p.m. resisting trump. let's play "hardball." two huge stories tonight. first deputy attorney general rod rosenstein said trump used him. then he gave trump cover, the l alibi to fire fbi director james comey. second, the resistance emerges to trump as he grabs the chance to change the supreme court for generations and by doing so, drive his own reelection. good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. as the only person with ultimate authority over the special

counsel's probe, deputy attorney general rod rosenstein is the only person standing out there between president trump and robert mueller. his defense of mueller and the justice department have made him a prime target of the right wing. however, rosenstein has -- was also instrumental to the white house in may of last year when president trump decided to fire fbi director james comey. it was rod rosenstein who ultimately drafted that memo that the president used to justify comey's firing. in an explosive story tonight, "the new york times" is now reporting that rosenstein told colleagues he believed he was used. quote, in the days after the fbi director james comey was fired last year, rod rosenstein repeatedly expressed anger about how the white house used him to rationalize the firing, saying the experience damaged his reputation, according to four people familiar with his outbursts. well, those sources describe the deputy attorney general as seemingly conflicted. quote, rosenstein alternately

defended his involvement, expressed remorse at the tumult it unleashed and said the white house had manipulated him. however, if rosenstein felt manipulated, there may be good reason. that's because the president's behavior in the days that followed comey's firing suggested he used rosenstein's memo as an alibi. trump told lester holt, however, that the russia investigation was the reason he fired comey. >> but regardless of recommendation, i was going to fire comey, knowing there was no good time to do it. and, in fact, when i decided to just do it, i said to myself, i said, you know, this russia thing with trump and russia is a made-up story. >> well, the president also met with russian diplomats in the oval office and he repeatedly told them, i faced great pressure because of russia. that's taken off. well, it was after those statements that rosenstein appointed the special counsel to oversee the probe. according to "the new york times," upon learning of the

appointment, mr. trump erupted in anger, saying he needed someone overseeing the investigation who would be loyal to him. i'm joined by the author of this new "new york times" report, michael schmidt of the "times," who is also an msnbc contributor. democratic congressman eric swalwell, he sits on the house judiciary committee. and barbara mcquade is a former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst. i want to start with michael. this is a hell of a story because it talks about how we thought at the time that rosenstein was doing what the president wanted him to do, but not what he thought was really the whole story. >> rosenstein had been deputy attorney general for a week and a half when this happens. the president wanted to send this letter to jim comey that said why he wanted to get rid of him. the white house counsel saw it, don mcgahn. he said, this is not a good idea. we need to come up with a cleaner reason for this. the president's letter was rambling. it went on and on. and they did also mention russia, the russia investigation. so mcgahn brings in sessions and

rosenstein. rosenstein offers to write this memo. the memo is ultimately the main argument the white house uses to explain the comey firing. they stand on the white house lawn the night of the firing, and they read from the letter and explain to people that comey had to go because he was too harsh on hillary clinton. >> if you're robert mueller and his associates and you now realize or you've realized now for months perhaps that rosenstein felt he was used and he didn't feel i was being accurate and at all honest about the reasons for the firing, what would that tell you about obstruction of justice? >> well, mueller has known this probably for a year. this is nothing that -- >> but the public didn't know it. >> the public did not know it. this is the thing. this is a very important period of time. it's a little more than a week between when comey is fired and mueller is appointed. and what trump defenders and trump's lawyers would say, they'd say, well, rosenstein was more than happy to be part of the comey firing, and then several days later appoints mueller to investigate the same thing that he was a part of. he's now overseeing it, and he's

a chief witness in this. >> let me go to the congressman on this. congressman swalwell, thank you for joining us from stanford out there. what do you make of the fact that now we know on the record from "the new york times" that rosenstein knew and said so at the time he was used, that that wasn't the reason for the firing of comey. the reason was probably russia and the cover-up. >> of course the president used him, chris. the president uses everyone around him, and right now he's trying to fool the american people that he really cares about them. it's always been about donald trump. i don't believe rod rosenstein should recuse himself. this is a question that he has posed to the department of justice. i believe he was sincere when he asked them if he should recuse themselves, and they have advised that he shouldn't. so republicans now have a real interest in whether he should be recused. we saw that in our judiciary committee hearing, but that's not because they want to make sure that this investigation is done right. it's because they want to delay, obstruct, and do everything they can to stop bob mueller from

making the progress he needs to make in this investigation. and now we must insist that rosenstein and mueller stay, and if rosenstein is fired, it would be treated the same as if mueller were fired. >> barbara, it always seemed to me and i think that most people following this whole russia investigation, at the heart of obstruction, if you want to believe there was obstruction, was the firing of comey because comey was coming at this president. and the president got rid of comey because of that reason. and rosenstein crafted a moment that claimed it wasn't a cover-up. it was really something to do with other issues, the way that comey treated hillary clinton in the campaign, et cetera. what does this mean to an obstruction investigation? >> yeah. i think this is one more piece of evidence that could add to a theory of obstruction of justice. you know, when someone lies about something they did or offers a pretext for something they did, it causes you to wonder if they are not hiding their consciousness of guilt. i know what i did was wrong. therefore, i have to come up with a lie that explains the real reason.

whenever there's a jury question on obstruction of justice -- and in this instance, maybe it would be a senate question -- whoever is the fact finder, they're told in their instructions that because no one can read someone else's mind to determine what was in someone's mind and their intent, you have to look at all of the facts and circumstances, the totality of the circumstances, what a person said and did. i think this is one more item on the list that robert mueller can point to about what was said and done that could add to the mix to establish obstruction of justice and that corrupt intent that's necessary. >> one more item on the list. to the congressman, earlier point, rosenstein was asked if he would recuse himself after overseeing the special counsel's probe because of his role in comey's firing. let's watch what he said. >> it seems like you should be recused from this more so than jeff sessions just because you were involved in making decisions affecting both prongs of this investigation. why haven't you done that? >> congressman, i can assure you that if it were appropriate for me to recuse, i'd be more than happy to do so and let somebody

else handle this. but it's my responsibility to do it. >> well, there we have a problem there. michael schmidt, your reporting today, what is it going to -- it seems like in the kind of almost twisted way in which the opposition to this investigation have operated, they might say, well, you know, the fact that this rosenstein was upset about the fact he was used by the president biased him to the point when he went out and hire robert mueller to investigate the president. i know how they think. it's another benghazi to them, another weird rabbit hole to go down. >> but this shows all the different sort of roles that rosenstein is playing at the same time. despite the fact that he was part of the comey firing, in favor of doing that, you have representative swalwell, a democrat, saying we really need to keep him around. for the democrats, they think he's their best bet. th >> congressman, it seems to me as we're sitting around here with the producers today for this program, we're trying to

figure out what stops this president from getting rid of mueller. what stops him is rod rosenstein, and jeff sessions to some extent, but mainly rosenstein, who appointed him. is that true, and is that why the republicans on your committee and elsewhere seems to be always targeting rosenstein from a variety of directions? >> first, chris, they're trying to put an asterisk on this investigation should it bring more indictments, especially against the president or his family. but what stops the president is public sentiment. he wants to be popular. he wants to be liked. that is more important than doing the right thing. we saw that when it came to separating mothers from their children at the border. only because it became unpopular did he do the right thing. and i think he fears because the american people have been quite loud about this and the public polling shows this, that if he were to fire mueller or if he were to fire rosenstein, that republicans would move on him, and they would view that as obstruction of justice. i fear, though, that the committee that would have to hold him responsible first, the house judiciary committee, is lost because they're doing all

they can right now to make sure that he has a green light to fire mueller and rosenstein. [ overlapping voices ] >> do you think if he were to fire mueller or try to fire rosenstein, raether that that would nixonize him -- trump? >> yes. to the leadership in the republican party, i believe that is their own red line because that's also where the public is on this. and the polling, again, reflects that. but in the house justice committee, they are his fixers in congress. that is about 20 michael cohens sitting there, trying to fix this investigation in the president's favor. >> it must be great sitting next to them. by the way, i thought it was interesting they separate the staffs, the minority and majority staffs by some kind of partition. do you think that was part of the effort so they could go about their business of saving this president's neck without your committee and staff people getting involved? >> yes. they have taken away the

bipartisan comedy that we've had in previous congresses solely to protect the president, not to protect the democracy or the ballot box in our future elections. i think they're going to pay a price in november. people want someone to push the big red button that stops the wrecking ball that's donald trump. >> i mention this as rod rosenstein finds himself under attack by house republicans seeking to undermine him or otherwise sabotage this whole russian probe. in a justice diciary committee g yesterday, accused rosenstein of hiding information from them. here's a tense exchange with congressman jim jordan. >> mr. rosenstein, why are you keeping information from congress? >> congressman, i am not keeping any information from congress. >> i don't know why you won't give us what we've asked for. >> sir, i certainly hope your colleagues are not under that impression. that is not accurate, sir.

>> it is accurate. we have caught you hiding information. >> mr. chairman, can we -- >> your statement that i'm personally keeping information from you, trying to conceal information -- >> you're the boss, mr. rosenstein. >> that's correct, and my job is to make sure we respond to your concerns. we have, sir. >> even congressman trey gowdy, who once defended the special counsel, piled on there, urging rosenstein to expedite the mueller investigation. here he goes. >> we've seen the bias. we've seen the bias. we need to see the evidence. if you have the evidence of wrongdoing by any member of the trump campaign, present it to the damn grand jury. whatever you got, finish it the hell up because this country is being torn apart. >> i've heard suggestions that we should just close the investigation. i think the best thing we can do is finish it appropriately and reach a conclusion. >> that's congressman's gowdy's criticism of the pace of the

russia probe is disingenuous at best. as the chairman of the benghazi committee, gowdy spent 2 1/2 years investigating hillary clinton, which concluded without a single indictment. it got nowhere because there was nowhere to go. in contrast, the mueller probe has gone on for a little more than a year and has already produced 20 indictments. i want to go back to congressman swalwell. this reminds me of an era of the nixon probe which led to removal of the president by resignation. there was an era toward the end when the nixon defenders, a small cadre still around, began to say get off his back. leave him alone. a rabbi basically led the cause. i noticed with 90% of republican voters supporting trump now, that people like gowdy -- even guys like he are jumping aboard the last-chance saloon here. >> that's right, chris. but, again, the american people want to see this investigation concluded. however, to mr. gowdy, i would

say, when you lie to investigators, when you tamper with witnesses as paul manafort has done, and when you refuse to sit in the chair even when you've been given the questions that the fbi wants to ask you, it's going to take longer. so if you do that, we could finish it the hell up. >> is the president going to testify this year or not? >> no, i don't think he would ever do that. no. i don't see him ever doing that. he's never met the truth in his life, and he does not want to meet this investigation team. >> thank you so much. michael schmidt, great reporting as always. congressman swalwell and barbara mcquade. democrats are facing a five-alarm fire now when it comes to the supreme court. even president obama is out there warning about this and warning his party personally. plus new reporting that white house chief of staff john kelly is on his way out the door. it's no wonder trump's apparently decided that his own instincts -- think about that. his instincts are better than anyone else's thoughts, and he's

sick of having a hall monitor. and further proof today that the president's looking for someone to be his trumpet. a fox news executive. isn't that great? is set to become communications director. the echo chamber will be official. the "hardball" roundtable tackles that. and the administration's secret campaign to get justice kennedy to retire at their time convenience. that would be this july so they could pick a substitute before they lose the senate. finally let me finish tonight with a word about what happened yesterday in annapolis among those straight news reporters for that paper. this is "hardball," where the action is. and the safey for "most parallel parallel parking job" goes to...

[ drum roll ] ...emily lapier from ames, iowa. this is emily's third nomination and first win. um...so, just...wow! um, first of all, to my fellow nominees, it is an honor sharing the road with you. and of course, to the progressive snapshot app for giving good drivers the discounts -- no, i have to say it -- for giving good drivers the discounts they deserve. safe driving! frump told report president trump told reporters i would announce his supreme court pick on july 9th. there are six or seven candidates including two women. there's a possibility he may meet with some of those contenders this weekend at his golf club in bedminster, new jersey. isn't that an appropriate setting to fill the supreme court? a little golf on the side there.

we'll be right back. i'll take. take this left. if you listen real hard you can hear the whales. oop. you hear that? (vo) our subaru outback lets us see the world. sometimes in ways we never imagined. when you barelyonto clip a passing car. minor accident-no big deal, right? wrong. your insurance company is gonna raise your rate after the other car got a scratch so small you coulda fixed it with a pen. maybe you should take that pen and use it to sign up with a different insurance company. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise their rates because of their first accident. liberty stands with you. liberty mutual insurance.

i couldn't remain silent after i saw those -- those nazi, neo-nazis coming out of fields carrying torches in one of the historic cities in america, followed by and accompanied by white supremacists and then being objected to by other citizens and the president saying they're good people in both places. come on. this is a battle for the soul of america. this is a battle for the soul of america. we cannot afford to lose it. >> welcome back to "hardball." for many people this week was a sad reminder of just how divisive president trump has been and made this country. on the border, there were reports of toddlers being forced into court because their families are seeking asylum. at the supreme court, the retirement of justice anthony kennedy created -- abrorortion

rights will fall to the hands of a partisan court firmly aligned with the republican party. at a fund-raiser on thursday night, in fact, former president barack obama gave some of his most pointed remarks since he left the presidency. according to politico, obama told democratic donors that night they were right to be concerned. but he said they should not wait for the perfect message or messenger i think in order to vote. while never mentioning president trump by name, he warned democrats not to underestimate trump's brand of politics. fear is powerful, he said. but he added, the majority of american people prefer a story of hope. the majority of the american people prefer a country that comes together rather than being divided. we'll see about that, won't we? we saw examples of this in last year's massive women's march which brought together millions of people to advocate for human rights, women's rights, and health care. look at this. all those cities converging in one point. yesterday roughly 600 protesters were arrested near the u.s. capitol demanding an end to

forced family separations at the border. among them was a u.s. congresswoman from washington state along with sam stein, politics editor of the daily beast. and jason johnson, editor of something more calm, the root. congresswoman, you're at the ramparts as we used to say in the '60s. you were out there. y what did your protest involve, and why did you do it? >> 2,500 women from all over the country came to really show their moral outrage at the president and his policy, zero tolerance, zero humanity policy. they were there to say we're putting ourselves on the line. i went to speak to them actually, but i was so moved by how passionate they were and, you know, the stories that we were all telling. and so i sat down with them, and i got arresteds. i believe civil disobedience is

an important tactic to push an issue to the forefront. >> it's going to watch. it's participate tory democracy as we call it. he's about to pick the decisive member of the supreme court, someone who will be there for 45 years perhaps, sitting on the bench. >> this is a horrible, horrible thing. i do think if we can make it clear to the american people what's at stake, that this will also help us to get a wave out across the country, make sure we win back the house, make sure that we introduce some checks and balances. that's what we don't have anymore. >> what good it to have the election and pick the court justice, the decisive fifth out of nine people before the election. >> as you have said over and over -- [ overlapping voices ] >> if mcconnell passes it by one vote, everybody in the press will say what a brilliant parliamentarian he was to do it with one vote. if he's brilliant to do it, it doesn't take brilliance to stop him. >> there's two issues.

it's always hard to run on the supreme court, but now people can't. it's not just abortion, but it's also this is the justice who will decide if the president can pardon himself because that's the end game. >> you mean this president? >> yes, this president. >> if he gets his way. >> so those are the two issues. i think it's not just about the first person he picks. the republicans play the long game. they may pick somebody ridiculous at first, let the democrats fool themselves into thinking, okay, we got that person to go, and then pick someone more moderate. they've got to be prepared to fight all the way until the end. there's got to be some brilliant parliamentarian out there who knows how to stall this. >> i think this changed in 2000 when the supreme court picked the president. i know presidents pick the supreme court. in 2000, they picked the president. i always want to know how somebody in florida, jim baker, somebody got the word to supreme court, come on down here and take over this election. stop the count, and you guys vote. by the way, they voted entirely on partisan lines. five republicans on the court gave the presidency to w. w. gave us the iraq war.

it all happened because of the court. >> yeah. i mean -- >> partisan voting. >> there's a lot of anguish among democrats about the likelihood that the court will be pulled to the right and tarnish the court. >> to the republican side, not just the right. >> tarnish the court as essentially. but the truth is the court's reputation has been damaged for a while now. it's not just bush v. gore. citizens united was a case that people thought was unfairly decided. a bunch of 5-4 cases that have come down where it's almost predictable in advance what the decision is going to be. we had an era of bipartisan that the court was immune to -- >> when was that? >> the truth is i'm not really sure because you can go back to the fdr days, but certainly there was an aura and an era where the -- >> i think with nixon when they came out unanimously and said release the tapes. [ overlapping voices ] >> to that point, some of those judges were appointed by nixon.

to your point about how this court will have to decide the potential that trump gets to pardon himself, there is maybe a small sliver of hope that there can be people who rise above. >> your thoughts about this because you sit in the legislative branch. did you hear trump today? he referred to "my government." i have never heard that -- we don't have a government. britain has a government. we have the legislative branch, the executive branch, and the courts. there's nobody that can say my government. >> he has been saying about the department of justice, the loyalty pledges. that is how he thinks about this, which is what is so dangerous. i do think one of the things that worries me about how we are electing supreme court justices -- or appointing supreme court justices today is the influence of big money. you look at gorsuch and how much money was put into that race in order to -- >> you're calling it a race. it was a race. >> it was because the senators vote on that, and they put money into those targeted states with those specific senators, and they're going to do it again. they've already started doing it

again. so that -- you know, that does worry me, and i think that we have to continue to call for everybody to play hardball. >> it's an amazing coalition now, which is fox, the president, and now increasingly perhaps the supreme court. president trump sat down with fox news today to discuss what he's looking for in the supreme court. here's what he said. >> are you going to ask your nominees beforehand how they might vote on roe v. wade? >> well, that's a big one, and probably not. they're all saying don't do that. you don't do that. you shouldn't do that. but i'm putting conservative people on, and i'm very proud of neil gorsuch. he has been outstanding. his opinions are, you know, so well written, so brilliant. and i'm going to try and do something like that, but i don't think i'm going to be so specific. >> i can't imagine this particular president -- he's obviously as smart as most

politicians, but sitting down and reading the opinions of judge gorsuch. i don't think he sat down and read them. that contradicts what the president promised to do back in october of 2016. let's listened to what he promised as a candidate. >> do you want to see the court overturn roe v. wade? >> well, if we put another two or perhaps three justices on, that's really what's going to -- that will happen, and that will happen automatically in my opinion because i am putting pro-life justices on the court. >> that's pretty clear. >> that's pretty clear. >> how does he know they are when he doesn't ask them? >> he has lots of conversations long before. and, you know, i read that article that said he was -- he's actually been courting kennedy, i mean through his son and -- >> we'll get to that tonight, this elaborate se ducduction no just this year but by a date certain. >> the thing about the supreme court confirmation hearings and processes, it's so much kabuki theater. everyone will say, i can't answer these things. it's potentially going to come before me, when in truth we know that donald trump wants someone

to overturn roe. we know that the federal society is pushing this. we know that mitch mcconnell and senate republicans are mostly interested in this. and the question we really are waiting for is will susan collins and lisa murkowski demand that any prospective nominee answer that question? and to be honest, they're going to dance around it. >> i think it's going to be amy barrett and i think they've got it figured out already. >> they probably do. i don't know if that's going to be their first run. the other issue is this, and barrett qualifies, and there will be probably some surprise people. they're going to pick somebody who is 15 minutes out of law school. >> 45 years. >> exactly. >> in a surprise appearance on the late show with stephen colbert last night, jon stewart also called on democrats to fight. here he is, the cheerleader for the right side. let's watch. >> i just want to say if there's one hallmark to your president say that we're finding the most difficult is that no matter what you do, it always comes with an extra layer of gleeful cruelty.

donald, you could have absolutely made a more stringent border policy that would have made your point about enforcement. but i guess it wouldn't have felt right without a dick enzian level of villainy. what donald trump wants is for us to stop calling his cruelty and fear and divisiveness wrong but to join him in calling it right. and this we cannot do. [ cheers and applause ] and by not yielding -- and by not yielding -- and i say by not yielding, we will prevail unless, of course, the democratic leadership -- >> the last outburst, he w -- >> you need to say that. look, jon stewart always represented that sort of rage of the left, and it was first the new york left. now it's sort of the entire left. but resistance is the only way to go at this particular point. the leadership of the democratic party is behind the times for

how frustrated and angry their base is. >> yeah. >> and perhaps when they're all gone, if the democrats take over the house this fall, we'll see some more active leadership because right now -- >> maybe new york will take over the house this fall. anyway, u.s. congressman jayapal, sam stein, and jason johnson. real simple pronunciations. up next, rumors are swirling that chief of staff john kelly, the four star general is on his way out. if a four star general can't keep this guy in line, nobody will? he wants to go it alone. trumpinstincts. he believes they're better than anyone else's thinking. this is "hardball." hore breaks h actual coconuts. tea, organically. treats for celebrations. water with added minerals for taste.

dear future us, that's why we're striving to do good. and help our communities get the education they deserve. we're doing this today... ...so you can do even more. the coca-cola company

is it to carry cargo... greatness of an suv? ...so you can do even more. or to carry on a legacy? its show of strength... or its sign of intelligence? in crossing harsh terrain... or breaking new ground? this is the time to get an exceptional offer on the mercedes of your midsummer dreams at the mercedes-benz summer event, going on now. receive up to a $1,250 summer event bonus on select suvs. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing.

back to "hardball." we're about just a month away from john kelly's one-year anniversary as white house chief of staff. it comes up on july 31st. actually when the judge is about to leave, anthony kennedy, same date. according to a new "wall street journal" report, general kelly may not be able to make his own deadline. this report says president trump is now openly consulting advisers, asking them about who to replace kelly with. one person close to the white house said mr. kelly doesn't believe he can serve mr. trump well because the president has stopped listening to him. this person said mr. kelly no longer likes the job and doesn't believe the president genuinely wants a chief of staff. the report in the journal adds

that the top two choices to replace the journal are nick ayers and mick mulvaney. whether they'll have better luck restraining trump's mercurial instincts than a retire the four star general is an open question. nbc reported kelly was likely to leave by july 31st. i'm joined by the "hardball" roundtable, anita kumar, phil rucke rucker. every time i see the general, i look at a grown-up. every time i see the president, a see something a little different. all right? how does he get to tell the president what to do? it looks to me like he can't, and he has realized now he can't. >> well, he probably can't. he's having trouble with that. if he leaves, the situation at the white house, a lot of things are going to remain exactly the same, right?

he's had two chief of staffs. they've had very different backgrounds. >> remind me. reince priebus. >> reince priebus and then john kelly. they have very different backgrounds, right? reince came from the rnc, political guy. and a lot of things have stayed the same. now, some things did change when john kelly came in there. but still trump is going to do what he wants to do, right? >> yeah. maybe the chief of staff's yob is job to say before you sit on a summit meeting with the dictator of north korea, you might check with the defense secretary, little protocols like that. trump does what he feels like doing when he feels like doing it. >> trump refuses toi be managed in a traditional sense. the president chafed against it. now kelly is very much in an operational role. he's helping run the government, but trump is really calling the shots, making the decisions, deciding where he goes, who he talks to, and deciding to have that summit with kim jong-un. >> trump is his own chief of staff, senior adviser, and

communications director all rolled into one. >> chief cheerleader for himself. >> as time goes on in the white house, he gets more comfortable with his instincts. you can have a chief of staff who tries to control what kind of paper he sees, but the president is going to get around it. >> i think a lot of not just dictators but a lot of people go, my hunches seem to be better than the people around me. >> on things like tariffs, the president didn't do that in his first year. he listened to people around him. but this year as time goes on, he listens to himself more and more. >> is he the smartest guy in the white house -- trump? >> he thinks he is. and he thinks he's smarter not only in terms of intelligence, but he think he has better political instincts than the political professionals, and he's felt that way all along. >> who agrees with him, anita, what he decides we're not going to deal with the europeans anymore. we're breaking the nato alliance. we don't like the canadians. we don't like anybody. the people we like are kim jong-un and putin. we like the world's dictators.

does anybody think like him in the white house? i know bolton doesn't think like this. who does he have around him that says good point and honestly mean it? >> the question is what do they say to him after? are they really saying to him, you shouldn't have done that? are you going to say that to the president of the united states? >> would that work, phil? >> no. they manage the fallout of it. they let him decide what he wants to do and then manage it within the government. >> or try to manage it. >> the last king of scotland, that movie with forrest whitaker, he fell in love with certain people for a while and then he fell out. nixon was like that. nixon liked people like pat moynihan for a while and then he dropped them. is that the problem we have with the president? >> he gets bored of people. we know he gets bored of people. we know he values chemistry between himself and the people around him and that usually fizzles unless it's his family. >> meanwhile the fox to white house pipeline continues. nbc news has confirmed that former fox news president bill shine is likely to join the

white house in a senior role, probably as trump's next communications director. shine has a long-standing relationship with trump ally sean hannity. shine would add to a growing list of fox news staffers who have worked for this administration. there's a picture. it's not just a personnel list. others have become the president's unofficial advisers. new york magazine reported last month that the president and sean speak multiple times on some days, often at night. "the daily beast" reports in april that during the president's first year, lou dobbs would be patched into the oval office via speaker phone to weigh in on decisions. anita, this is a close relationship between fox -- >> it's a close relationship. remember, this is a president who loves television, the tv moment, right? those are the moments he tries to orchestrate himself. >> "fox & friends" begins his day. >> right. so this is not a surprise, right? >> so he tweets, and he foxes or whatever the verb is. >> and bill shine coming in, he's not just going to be a

communications director. he's going to be a deputy chief of staff likely. he's going to have a big purview in this sort of third era of the trump white house. i think he's going to be helping the president not only deal with the press and messaging but figure out a political strategy for the midterms and more importantly in the 2020 reelection, how to get this presidency more on track than it is right now. >> there's a mind meld there clearly between the president and fox news. the president watches them a lot. in many cases, some of the personalities amplify his message. it wouldn't surprise me if someone like the former president of that network would be running communications. >> the roundtable is staking wi -- sticking with us. unmention, "the new york times" runs down all the times the trump administration worked behind the scenes to help create a second opening on the supreme court. how they wooed justice kennedy into leaving. you're watching "hardball."

oh don't... it's early 90s sitcom star dave coulier... cut...it...out! [laughing] what year is it? as long as stuff gets lost in the couch, you can count on geico saving folks money. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. yes. it's a targeted medicine proven to help prevent severe asthma attacks, and lower oral steroid use. about 50% of people with severe asthma have too many cells called eosinophils in their lungs. fasenra™ is designed to work with the body to target and remove eosinophils. fasenra™ is an add-on injection for people 12 and up with severe eosinophilic asthma. don't use fasenra™ for sudden breathing problems or other problems caused by eosinophils.

fasenra™ may cause headache, sore throat, and allergic reactions. get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth, and tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. tell your doctor if your asthma worsens or if you have a parasitic infection. fasenra™ is a targeted treatment for eosinophilic asthma. that's important. ask an asthma specialist about fasenra™.

in just a moment, justice gorsuch will be sworn in by justice kennedy, a great man of outstanding accomplishment. throughout his nearly 30 years on the supreme court, justice kennedy has been praised by all for his dedicated and dignified service. >> that was president trump praising anthony kennedy last april at a swearing in ceremony for justice neil gorsuch. as the president now looks to make a generational choice in picking a successor for justice kennedy, whose replacement trump plans to announce on july 9th, "the new york times" reports the president's kind words for kennedy were part of a strategic campaign to create an opening on the high court. part of the strategy was to assure kennedy that his legacy would be in good hands. but according to the "times,"

allies of the white house were more blunt, warning the 81-year-old justice that time was of the essence. there was no telling what would happen if democrats gained control of the senate this november. it had the power to block the president's choice as kennedy's successor. i'm back with the "hardball" roundtable. what do you make of this? this story is so interesting because it's subtle because you put all these little points together. were all these points like ivanka going to talk to justice kennedy and get a sort of a tour of the supreme court -- it could have been just a social thing. you don't know. was it part of a strategy to endear them to him somehow? >> i know it was resideally interesting for all these little pieces put together. it's no surprise. presidents always want to appoint a new supreme court justice and solidify that for decades to come. so that's not a surprise. you know, liberals wanted ruth bader ginsburg to retire so president obama could appoint someone else. so that's not a surprise. but when you look back at the last year and a half, president trump has talked so much about

neil gorsuch. it's one of his biggest accomplishments. it's not a surprise that he would want a second chance at that. >> one thing trump has, despite his sort of known lifestyle, whatever you want to make of it, it would not normally side him with the reverends of this world, the religious right. but on the issue of abortion rights, on life issues, i think it had a lot to do with him winning pennsylvania in '16. i think he's playing this really hard. he wants to pick another pro-life judge. >> and publishing that list of potential nominees for the supreme court that he did during the campaign sent a clear signal to the christian right, to the evangelical base that he was going to prioritize the court, and he thinks -- trump thinks that's what happened him lock up the base and win that election. and don mcgahn, the white house counsel, has been the hand behind all of this, and it's not just the supreme court. but they've been stacking the federal bench, the appeals courts. >> how did they get kennedy to quit? >> i think a combination of factors, including kennedy just

deciding it felt like the right time. >> sahil, i wonder if they were determined. i think the republicans have a very good shot at keeping the senate. we don't know which wave is going to be dominant come october. but they may have been worried. it looks to me on the reporting, justice kennedy wanted a republican to replace him. >> it sure seems that way. it's true there's no telling what would happen if democrats take over. i still there's still a lot of animosity for the republicans treated merrick garland. what's interesting here is i think getting kennedy to step down was less about kennedy's legacy and more about president trump's legacy. there are things that kennedy has done that has sided with the right flank of the court that are going to be cemented now, things like voting rights, gun rights. >> but that's why president

trump's comments, the praise you talked about to justice kennedy was so interesting. a lot of conservatives don't like him. >> i know. he knew what he was doing, didn't he. ? it looks like sean hannity is blaming yesterday at tragedy at the "capital gazette" in maryland on a couple of democrats. let's watch him in action here. >> i've been saying now for days that something horrible is going to happen because of the rhetoric. really, maxine? you want people to create -- all your friends. get in their faces. obama said that too. get in their faces. call them out. all your friends. you know, get protesters. follow them into restaurants and shopping malls and wherever else she said. >> no connection between the horror yesterday and anything to do with politicians on either side of the aisle. hannity blames it on two democrats. >> yeah, and look, maxine waters is among a number of politicians who you could blame for contributing to this environment. but the main contributor is president trump. he's the one who calls the news

organizations fake news, calls reporters disgusting and despicable. >> i don't think it had anything to do with politics. the roundtable is sticking with us. up next, these three will tell me something i don't know. you're watching "hardball." like, say... your car. well, good news. the esurance app lets you keep an eye on your repairs when your car is in the shop. it's kinda like being there, without being there. which is probably better for everyone. that's insurance for the modern world. esurance. an allstate company. click or call. let someone else do the heavy lifting. tripadvisor compares prices from over 200 booking sites to find the right hotel for you at the lowest price. so you barely have to lift a finger. or a wing. tripadvisor.

after that deadly shooting at the "capital gazette" in maryland yesterday, staffers vowed to continue working and to put a damn paper -- put out a damn paper despite their grief. here it is. on the front page photos of the

five victims with profiles inside. on the editorial page, however, just 56 words including these. today we are speechless. the rest of the page was intentionally left blank to commemorate the victims. the editorial board promises to return the page to its steady purpose tomorrow of keeping readers informed. that they might be better citizens. we'll be right back. i would not want to pay that insurance bill. [ ding ] -oh, i have progressive, so i just bundled everything with my home insurance. saved me a ton of money. -love you, gary! -you don't have to buzz in. it's not a question, gary. on march 1, 1810 -- [ ding ] -frédéric chopin. -collapsing in 226 -- [ ding ] -the colossus of rhodes. -[ sighs ] louise dustmann -- [ ding ] -brahms' "lullaby," or "wiegenlied." -when will it end? [ ding ] -not today, ron.

-when will it end? [ ding ] you finished preparing overhim for college.rs, in 24 hours, you'll send him off thinking you've done everything for his well-being. but meningitis b progresses quickly and can be fatal, sometimes within 24 hours. while meningitis b is uncommon, about 1 in 10 infected will die. like millions of others, your teen may not be vaccinated against meningitis b. meningitis b strikes quickly. be quick to talk to your teen's doctor about a meningitis b vaccine. ♪ hello. the new united explorer card hooks me up.

getting more for getting away. rewarded! going new places and tasting new flavors. rewarded! traveling lighter. rewarded! (haha) getting settled. rewarded! learn more at theexplorercard.com and get... rewarded! we're back with the "hardball" roundtable. anita, tell me something i don't know. >> i'm going to stick with the theme of yesterday's shooting. journalists were so used to doing things under terrible circumstances, hurricanes and other things. but i was just really struck by how these three reporters used -- got in a truck, somebody's truck, and filed their stories while a blues cd was playing. that's how they put out the paper together. >> look ahead to july 16th. president trump's going to be in helsinki for that summit with president putin of russia. he says today that he's going to

bring up russia's occupation of crimea as well as russia's interference in the 2016 u.s. elections. a lot of experts think he's going to shy away from doing that. so we'll have to see if he'll have the courage to confront putin. >> that's a week to the day after he announces his supreme court pick. what a month. >> chris, the left wing cause of abolishing i.c.e. took a step from the radical fringes into the mainstream of the democratic party after ocasio-cortez upset joe crowley. since then, kirsten gillibrand has embraced the cause as has congresswoman nydia velazquez. this is moving very quickly. >> this is like the right wing saying they're going after the irs. you still have to replace it with some functioning government. >> this will be one to watch. >> thank you very much. when we return, let me finish tonight with a word about what happened yesterday in annapolis to those newspaper people. you're watching "hardball." insurance that won't replace

the full value of your new car? you're better off throwing your money right into the harbor. i'm gonna regret that. with new car replacement, if your brand new car gets totaled, liberty mutual will pay the entire value plus depreciation. liberty stands with you. liberty mutual insurance. doespeninsula trail?he you won't find that on a map. i'll take you there. take this left. if you listen real hard you can hear the whales.

oop. you hear that? (vo) our subaru outback lets us see the world. sometimes in ways we never imagined. wemost familiar companies,'s but we make more than our name suggests. we're an organic tea company. a premium juice company. a coconut water company. we've got drinks for long days. for birthdays.

for turning over new leaves. and we make them for every moment in every corner of the country. we are the coca-cola company, and we're proud to offer so much more. means they won't hike your rateseness over one mistake. see, liberty mutual doesn't hold grudges. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise their rates because of their first accident. liberty stands with you. liberty mutual insurance.

let me finish tonight with a word of about what happened yesterday in annapolis. the "capital gazette" newspaper reporters that were killed in the line of duty died doing what they had committed their lives to, getting the news to their readers. they weren't reporting fake news. deadline reporting isn't grand or necessarily overly eloquent. it's about getting the news into

print accurately and before anyone else does. the people who manage to get careers, getting stories on the front page are into news, breaking news, hard news. there's a joy in that job of course. beating the round of clock pressure, landing what you've come up with on the front page, really breaking the story. i like how one of the surviving reporters from the gazette put it on msnbc earlier today. he said his colleagues that were shot were simply doing their bit. when i said earlier this week in my message that the foley legacy foundation honoring the life and moral courage of murdered conflict reporter james foley stays true. i come here tonight out of moral humility but also professional humility. all those times riding on a campaign bus with deadline daily reporters i've come to respect them. i know well when it comes to reporting, i live merely in the chain of custody from them to the viewer, the reporter, not the commentator is the hero. and that's "hardball" for now.

thanks for being with us. i'm ayman mohyeldin in for ari melber. we start with breaking news on trump's supreme court pick. moments ago trump saying he >> including two women, he said that it would be appropriate to ask his -- i should say, inappropriate to ask his pick of what they think of roe-v-wade, here is what he said about it earlier in the day. >> are you going to ask your nominees before hand about how they would vote on roe-v-wade? >> that's a big one, probably not, they are all saying, you should not do that. and i'm putting conservative people on, i don't think that i'm going to be