monday morning. "morning joe," everyone, starts right now. ♪ good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, july 2nd. with us we have the president of the council on foreign relations and the author of the book "world in disarray, richard haas." he wants to talk about baseball. >> he's smirking. >> you won a game or two? >> we won the series. >> yankee stadium. what do you want? no. was that not crazy? >> look at him. >> three one sided. >> just three lopsided games. it was great. what a series, huh? >> september in june and july. >> i think neither team has been more than two games out for most of the year. unbelievable, mika. >> associate editor of commentary magazine noah rothman is here. columnist and associate editor of "the washington post" david

ignatius joins us and host of kcdc on m srsnbc kasie hunt joi us as well. she does her show sunday night and up bright and early monday morning. thank you, kasie. >> what a trooper. >> let me ask, we need sort of a wheel of fortune here that we can spin. i'll play vanna. we can actually spin it and i can ask richard and david ignatius, what dysfunctional foreign policy faux pas would you like to start with? >> oh. >> first, we could start with north korea. >> i like that one. >> north korea continuing to develop nuclear weapons and long-range missile technology that, yes, could kill all of us while we were sleeping at night with a nuclear weapon. we had that "wall street journal" and others reporting that yesterday. donald trump said two weeks ago the north korean nuclear threat is over. you can sleep well at night. well, we all knew he was lying and now we have proof.

or, the president wants to completely unilaterally withdraw from the world trade organization. >> there's that. >> that's a bad one. >> uh-huh. >> david ignatius, we also have donald trump floating the idea of possibly recognizing russia's invasion, vladimir putin's invasion of ukraine. that's kind of -- >> so many choices, joe. so many examples. >> i've given you those. there's also, of course, donald trump saying he he's not going to move on nafta until after the election. what do you guys think? >> i pick north korea. >> you think north korea? >> it's the most blatantly ominous one. >> well, that is true. >> you left out one or two. he's basically saying that the european union is as bad as china. >> yes. >> when it comes to trade. >> because i usually do when i think of the countries that helped us liberate europe from

adolph hitler, i usually think of chairman mou and the regime that followed. >> it's been nearly three weeks since president trump assured americans that they can sleep well at night. >> are you sleeping well at night, noah? >> generally because it has nothing to do with north korea. i'm just very tired. >> you can't have trees following. >> they're still falling. >> upon returning from the summit with north korean dictator kim jong-un in singapore, trump tweeted -- everyone can now feel much safer than the day i took office. there is no longer a nuclear threat from north korea. >> there is no longer a nuclear threat from north korea. noah rothman, really wick quicke watch this unfold, people want to know exactly where it ends, we have to play the game again. what if president obama were stupid now have have a unilateral meeting, to rush in a

meeting, with north korea and then on his way home declare that there's no longer a nuclear threat from north korea. hard to imagine actually the response. >> oh, i think we can all imagine the response actually. it would be very polarized, very partisan. barack obama was personally involved in the negotiations, i suspect the deal would be better received from the public. it was at the time most people were suspicious of this deal, democrats and republicans included. and i think that had a lot to do with the partisan effect. barack obama kept an arm's length distance from those negotiations. >> right. but here we have donald trump coming home -- the question is why didn't all republicans stand up and at the time of this where the president declared the nuclear threat over, when we had the president of the united states standing next to one of the most barber rouse dictators in the world, you had a few

complaining, but by and large most remained silent. >> some see this as a treaty so they can ratify it, but there's nothing to ratify at this point. there's no language. there's no documentation about verification regimes, timetable, disclosures. they're hoping to get something, some form of declaration early this week or early next. the return of some sort of urgency of these negotiations is remarkable. we were all on the same page before we started talking about this summit. time was not on our side. >> right. we need to go get to this very quickly, we don't have time. then we have the summit and the line became let's just lean back and see what happens. >> we get nothing out of the summit. >> no. it was actually i think there were give aways. let's back up. so the president added before taking office, people were assuming that we were going to war with north korea. president obama said that north korea was our biggest and most dangerous problem, no longer, sleep well tonight. >> dear god. >> now according to an exclusive

nbc news report, multiple sources say u.s. intelligence agencies believe despite the agreement, north korea has actually increased its production of enriched uranium for nuclear weapons at multiple secret sites in recent months. multiple u.s. officials also say there is evidence that north korea is trying to deceive the u.s. about its nuclear stockpile, arsenal and secret production facilities. that reporting has also been confirmed by "the washington post." in addition, new reports indicate north korea is nearly done with a major expansion of the key missile manufacturing facility which produces solid fuel, ballistic missiles and long range nuclear ballistic missiles. >> which of course right now can, richard, carry nuclear missiles to bases across asia but also carry a nuclear payload to the continental united

states. >> look, absolutely. this was going to be the inheritance of the 45th president no matter who is in the job. north korea had finally reached this point of development. and the question was, what are we going to do with it? really only three options. live with it and that was obviously unacceptable. go to war or try to do something diplomatic. the problem facing the trump administration, not that they tried to do something diplomatically, they did. but then they have dramatically oversold what it is they got. >> not only that, they rushed in. fools rush in. that was the definition of fools. >> they rushed in unilaterally. then again they claim way too much for it and so the question now is, can they walk things back to where they with r? can we resurrect any threats? sanctions are fast disappearing. all the pressure on north korea is beginning to unravel. north korea meanwhile is forging ahead. so can this administration

regain any control over this process as it goes forward not obvious right now. >> and david ignatius, it's not like just about every foreign policy expert in washington, d.c. and across the world that knew north korea, it's not like they didn't warn him against doing this, that if he gave kim jong-un this propaganda win, kim jong-un would want nothing else, need nothing else from it. that was the warning time and time again. sure enough, we find out while he's getting the propaganda win, they are still working not only on their nuclear program but on their long range ballistic program that again could deliver a nuclear weapon to the continental united states. >> i think the strange thing about this negotiation has been upside down. usually you have many months, sometimes years of preparatory work where the experts meet and categorize the weapons and make

decisions about what can be reduced and where it's located, do the inventories. and finally you get a document and you get the historic handshake agreement. in this case, it was flipped upside down. you start with the handshake and all the flags and trump comes home and claims a win. and then we get down to work in assessing what do the north koreans have? what do they have that they've been trying to hide? what are they continuing to build? so i think to be honest, i think it's still better to be in a diplomatic process even though you're running the catch up in a sense than where we were a year ago with the very direct threats of taking out the north korean nuclear capability. >> yeah. >> and we'll see now as mike pompeo, secretary of state goes to pyongyang for another round of conversations this week to

try to get the agreed list of what they've got and the schedule for how they're going to begin to dismantle it, whether there's anything real here. >> yeah. >> this is the moment. again, it's backwards. this should have happened six months ago, but we'll see now whether there's something there. >> well, donald trump should not have come back from munich waiving a piece of paper saying peace in our time. it's preposterous. this is the most direct threat to the united states. not only barack obama said it, everybody that knows anything about foreign policy said it. i think even trump had said it before, which is why, of course, he was insulting kim jong-un the way he was. but he came home and said the nuclear problem is over. sleep well at night. now we find out two weeks later they didn't even, you know, have the manners to wait until summer was out before, you know, they continued amping up their programs to obliterate us. to have the ability to

obliterate the united states of america. >> it's almost like they're north korea. >> it's almost like they're acting like north korea who has made fools of american presidents for a quarter of a century now. >> you should be concerned about that language that approach which is focussed on domestic politics. there's a domestic audience for that tweet. i was reading a new york times story about this declaration that mike pompeo is seeking to secure and in that was an unnamed official talking about this secret site of cascading sent ra fujs saying if they don't disclose this secret site we didn't know about for a year, then these negotiations are going to fall right apart. >> how many secret sites? >> let them disclose the secret site and we might know the extent they're serious. they know they have to disclose this site. it's kind of like a cheat. >> verification is not about searching for secret sites. verification is one side gives a full disclosure, a full accounting. this is everything we have. production facilities, weapons,

missiles, what have you. here is where they are. go check them out. you're welcome on this afternoon at this time to go check it out. that's what verification is. >> i always say of politicians, the past is always prologue. look what they did 20 years ago as the city council person and you'll -- just -- north korea, the past is prologue. so we found these sites. so they're going to reveal these sites now. and then we're going to find out two years later there's another site. >> might be an entire -- >> three years later there's another site. the north koreans lie. they've been lying to us for 25 years. they will lie to us for the next 25 years. >> this is the lucy in the football equivalent of international diplomacy. >> they will lie. it is what they do. and by the way, not only is it what they do, mika, it has been a great business practice for them because if you look at

where they have brought themselves because they had to dupe a guy that doesn't know how to negotiate anything, they have to dupe negotiating with him, putting their leader at the center of the world stage, putting their flags next to the american flag, think about what those two flags have stood for through the years. >> i know. >> think about it. they got what they want. they will do what they've been doing for the past quarter century. they will lie to us for the next quarter century. >> problem is that's what he does, too. you said they will lie. that's what they do. we have a situation that is going to come to a head one way or another with this president because he lies as well, which is proven. thousands of times in his presidency. let's bring one of the reporters behind friday's nbc news exclusive report, nbc news, national security and military courtney kubii. courtney, this is one of those situations where the president's lies and half truths or

exaggerations could come to a head because we have never seen something like this on the national or international stage where you're dealing with a dictator and we have a president of the united states who bends the truth on a daily basis. so the concern is that he will say that reports like the one you all came with on friday are untrue. what can you tell us about the work that has been done to put into getting the background on this story? >> so, there are a couple of things, mika. for starters, look, we're never surprised when the president says that one of our stories isn't true anymore, unfortunately. it happens. i can tell you that this was days of extensive reporting by my colleagues kendall and carol lee and i and we revealed a bunch of things that actually hadn't gotten as much attention as they were fascinating to me during the course of this reporting. one of them was that the u.s. intelligence has really stepped up its gathering on north korea.

one of the intelligence officials we spoke with said that it's paid dividends. you know, you've been talking here about this declaration that the u.s. is expecting, hoping to get this week from north korea. that was something that we spoke about as well. one of the reasons that this whole deceit, the u.s. is confident that north korea is engaging is so critical is that when north korea hands over this declaration that will includes presumably all of their nuclear facilities, their missile facilities, the full scope and extent of their nuclear and missile program, the u.s. was expecting to look at that and see how serious north korea is in this denuclearization, how serious they are about being open and transparent and really engaging in a full denuclearization which we heard president trump come out of the singapore summit extolling and saying how this is the beginning of the full denuclearization. but as richard haase said, he came out and seems that

president trump really oversold what is happening here. we learned from u.s. intelligence officials from about a dozen people who we spoke with over the course of last week that, in fact, north korea has not been decreasing its inrichment of uranium but increased it at one facility and they are actively trying to deceive the united states. here we are just days out of the summit and the u.s. confident that north korea is not upholding its end of the bargain. >> courtney kube, thank you so much for your reporting. >> by the way, kasie hunt, you also have "the wall street journal" reporting regarding the missile technology and the missile facilities expansion there, so donald trump is talking about fake news and he'll have to talk about rupert murdochs. where are the republicans on this on capitol hill? this is again a guy who told us we didn't have to worry about nuclear facilities, donald

trump, and here we are a couple weeks later we find out that they've increased not decreased uranium enrichment and continuing to try to hide from us the continued development of missile technology that puts the continental united states at risk. >> yeah. the thing is he didn't just tweet here, right? this wasn't just a case of the president saying oh everything is fine and leaving it at that. he actually cancelled our military exercises with south korea, which, you know, at the time, had a lot of republicans on capitol hill pretty incensed and there was a lunch behind closed doors with the vice president, several senators came out after the lunch and said, oh, no, the vice president assured us that we have not taken this pretty dramatic step, given away this significant concession to the north koreans. that didn't happen. then it turns out someone got their wires crossed. well, actually we did give that concession away.

and you know, i'm trying to think of an example of something that the north koreans gave away. >> actually you couldn't do that because -- >> no. >> i'm serious. the north koreans gave away nothing. they got the greatest propaganda win in the history of their regime. >> and i think that the sense on the hill was that it was a mistake to end those exercises. i think people are biting their tongues partly because a lot of these members are seeing especially senators are seeing information that we're not privy too. there was a very serious fear that we were on that track to war that david ignatius was talking about. a year ago, things were dramatically terrible. people did want to give this president at least the chance to put us on a different footing. now, we'll see if what we have learned from this reporting ultimately leads people to be more concerned than they already are. >> richard, this sounds so much like what the obama

administration told us about the iran deal. if you're against the iran deal, oh, you want nuclear war with iran? there was no middle ground. you either supported a stupid deal with iran n my opinion, or they said you're for nuclear war. now what we're hearing is, oh, well, things were so horrible. this beats san francisco being reduced to thermal nuclear ashes. well, actually there's a middle ground between that. you can actually prepare for talks bilateral talks or actually oh my god, work to bring in other countries and you could actually begin a process that actually moved us down the road. the commander in chief could later meet with the north koreans after we already know that they're going to be giving us something instead of cheating and lying to us as they have for the past quarter century. >> there's that and one other

thing, this agreement is so ambitious, it's all or nothing. if that's the only definition of successful diplomacy, we have set the standard so high it is wildly unrealistic that north korea would ever agree to it. second to what kasie was saying, we introduced unilaterally without coordinating with south korea or japan, we're going to stop all of our exercises plus the president threw out at the press conference the possibility of withdrawing all u.s. forces from south korea and even if this agreement had been ironclad, guess what, joe, one thing never mentioned in the agreement was north korea conventional military threat to south korea. so, it's so unwarranted that we have gone this far. so we have basically given up something truly for nothing. >> which is the stupidity is the geostrategic stability is staggering. the president talking about

taking our troops out of south korea. the president floating the idea of taking our troops out of germany while russia is expanding west ward and then talking about recognizing russia's invasion of ukraine. of course, he wouldn't remember because he doesn't read and he doesn't know history. he would not remember this because actually he can't remember something you never knew, but we actually had a treaty with ukraine. we told them if you give up your nuclear weapons, we will make sure that your boundaries are secure from invasion. >> right. >> now donald trump is going to say -- he's at least floating the idea, of recognizing russia's invasion of the ukraine. >> so, we have the geostrategic

wheel. >> he's going to be saying we need to take troops out of everywhere, you name it. but we do need to send a lot of troops and build a wall at the border because there is a negative immigration flow from the united states to mexico. that makes sense. >> it all makes no sense, but first we'll go to bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> after a hot weekend, we'll continue with our heat wave. dangerous heat for 59 million people. one of the hottest spots is philadelphia. you have a chance of hitting 100. so we'll continue throughout much of the week. here is the actual numbers. d.c. 97. slightly cooler temperatures in new york city. how about our friends in vermont feeling like 103 later today. now let's get to the forecast for the 4th of july. lot of people making your plans. we are going to deal with stormy weather, minnesota, hit and miss storms through the great lakes and heavier rain in the afternoon hours through pennsylvania. it will be one of the weeks

where we'll get daily rounds of rain. now the key, of course, for the fireworks, you get the afternoon storms, you want them to die off and end before we get to the fireworks display. here is the forecast for 10:00 p.m. on the 4th. new york city macy's fireworks display looks fine, d.c. and boston should be good. hit and miss storms dying off down along the gulf coast and chance of showers detroit and chicago but most will be ending. anyone from denver to the west coast you're looking great and clear skies for all your fireworks display on the 4th. it's a very hot week. this is a good chance of being the hottest week of the summer pretty much across the board from the west coast all the way to the east coast. heat advisory washington, d.c., hottest temperatures lat latests afternoon. you're almost up to 100. and now for the rings. (♪)

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on air force one this week, president trump, when he was speaking to reporters, seemed to leave the door open to recognizing russia's annexation of crimea, saying -- we'll have to see what happens when the issue comes up in the meeting. is the u.s. endorsing the idea that international borders can be redrawn by force? is this actually a topic? >> no, that's not the position of the united states, but i think -- >> which is why it was newsworthy when he said it. >> i don't know that's what he said. the president often says we'll see to show he's willing to talk to foreign leaders about a range of issues and hear their perspective. president putin was pretty clear with me about it and my response was we're going to have to agree to disagree on ukraine. >> but that's not up for negotiation? >> that's not the position of the united states. >> but saying we'll see suggests it might be. >> well, we'll see. >> well, that's shocking for our european allies. >> i don't think it's shocking at all. as i said, the position of the united states is clear on this. >> right. but is that open to changing as the united states's position if the president is saying the door

is open? >> the president makes the policy. >> you know, when he said it's not shocking at all, everybody watching that could have finished the sentence, but john bolton couldn't say it but he probably wanted to say it's not shocking at all. donald trump is the president of the united states. >> just like he owns the separation policy of children at the border, if this policy is announced by this president, we'll see what happens. but it will be owned by him. >> to the extent there's any rule in international relations that keeps the world from being a jungle, it's the idea that you cannot use military force to change borders. the idea that people are even thinking about, thinking about -- >> playing with it. >> accepting what the russians have done in crimea is stunning. you know n a world where you think you can't be stunned anymore, that is stunning. >> so there's a lot of daylight between president trump and national security adviser john bolton regarding opinions of

russia and vladimir putin. as recently as a year ago, bolton wrote an op-ed in the telegraph president trump looked vladimir putin and lied to him. bolton called putin a serial liar who committed an act of war by interfering in the 2016 election. >> good on you. >> and russia's invasion of crimea was beginning, bolton wrote another op-ed slamming putin's agenda arguing the west should arm ukraine. >> here here. >> news. >> who is this guy, david ignatius, and where has he been all of my life and where has he been this week? >> just yesterday. >> actually for those of us who have been concerned about john bolton, the two areas, at least for me where i took some comfort that john bolton would be inside there would be russia and iran. it's going to be very interesting to see -- well, and north korea, my god.

>> he was the hawk who was always pointing out the fallacy of president to negotiate with the kim family. >> by the way, and talked about actually bombing north korea and bombing iran. we're a long way from that. >> well, that was then. this is now. >> uh-huh. >> i thought that that little passage you showed of bolton yesterday was one of the most squirm-worthy i have watched in the sense that every time he was pressed on what is our policy about russian continued holding of crimea, for example, he just said we'll see. do you mean to say that -- these officials are terrified of contradicting a president whose judgments from hour to hour, day to day, they just don't know. and i think that's one of the great untold stories in national security at the pentagon, at the national security council, at the state department you have people who literally don't know from one day to the next where

the president is going to end up. >> and short staffed. >> this is worrying our allies who try to look at this and are finally just shrugging their shoulders and saying we're going to have to make our own plans. in asia, the south koreans, the japanese, our key allies in asia, watched the negotiations with north korea in the same way. what's this guy going to do next? >> right. >> they don't know. my point is, they're beginning to make alternative plans for their security. and that's really what should concern us as they begin to move away from what's been a reliable american security umbrella toward different ways of thinking about how to stay safe. >> i only wish republicans on capitol hill would make alternative plans for what the gop's national security plan looks like kasie hunt, because on the hill for those republicans who were afraid of, more fearful of a tweet being directed their way than north korea taking advantage of us

when it comes to nuclear negotiations, republicans on the hill are in the same position where they're afraid to speak out because they don't know what donald trump is going to say tomorrow. here you have, again, the question hanging over congress this week even though, you know, russia is telling reuters that it's not on the agenda. russia doesn't know whether it's on the agenda or not because, well, donald trump may put it on the agenda. >> and you know we may not have any idea what the president actually says in this meeting. you'll remember one of the last times he encountered the russian president, he didn't have a translator with him that was on the american side. so, to a certain extent we have no idea what those conversations are about. and i think this is one of the things where you have actually seen members of congress come out and speak pretty forcefully about this president's relationship about america's relationship with the russians, about the dangers of russian meddling in the election.

you actually have the president acknowledge a little bit more along the lines of what happened and their attempts to sew discord in our elections than i heard before. but i do think there's a serious divide on this. there's a lot of republicans that didn't think he enforced the sanctions strongly enough. this is a potential opportunity, i think, for republican members to step out front on something here. >> well, and lindsey graham actually decided to do so, maybe it was coordinated with the white house, i don't know. lindsey stepped up pretty aggressively over the weekend. take a look. >> i'm concerned when the president tweets, you know, russia did not meddle in our election, when they say they didn't meddle, they're lying. i'm glad the president is going to confront putin, show him the evidence you got, mr. president, because it's overwhelming. in many ways this administration has been tough on russia. we've armed the ukraine, imposed sanctions and kicked out

diplomats, but the idea that russia did not meddle in our election is fake news. they did meddle in our election and they're doing it again in 2018. >> please nobody tell people on other networks that. i'm surprised more republicans haven't spoken like that. >> yeah. and you can be supportive of the president, a team player on the republican side and still be honest and forthright and critical of donald trump when he deserves to be criticized. if you're a russia hawk, there's a lot to be happy with this administration about. many have talked about the extent to which we supplied arms to ukraine, put intercepter missiles in central europe, sanctioned people who deserved sanctions, et cetera, et cetera. the exception to that rule is in syria, where the administration came in with the design of extra indicating america from syria, handing that responsibility over to russia essentially outsourcing our responsibilities as a superpower to syria. russia is not going to maintain

our interests. their working hand in glove with bashar al assad and bashar al assad sees a very valuable presence in the form of isis and terrorist groups, islamic groups. you are with us or against us. outsourcing our job in syria to russia, which i think is the extent to which there's any agenda for a summit between donald trump and vladimir putin, would be probably disastrous for american objectives. and beyond that, i see no reason to hold a summit, a presidential level summit with vladimir putin, especially just months after he was accused of using chemical weapons in ukraine -- sorry, in the uk. >> in the uk and allowing what's going on in syria. we're talking about donald trump retreating his cowardly retreat from the world, his cowardly proposal to retreat from germany, his cowardly proposal to retreat from south korea and

cowardly and disastrous proposal to retreat from the small presence our troops have in syria where he wants to turn syria over to russia, to assad, and to the iranians. it's hard to find a single place where the investment of fortified american troops can alter the balance of power more on the globe than right there with three countries who consider themselves to be enemies of the united states. >> no. look, there's a thread here and it's obvious and it's a pattern of american withdrawal from all these institutions and arrangements and american withdrawal of troops, an american underlining of our alliances. this is the worst possible way to walk into a summit with vladimir putin. you know, the idea that we're flirting with the idea of recognizing the annexation of ukraine, flirting with taking u.s. forces out of germany. three quarters of u.s. forces have already come out of germany since the end of the cold war.

the idea that we're criticizing the eu in the transatlantic relationship. we have no more special relationship with our allies. we have no more special commitment to our allies than we are open to doing things with mr. putin. >> i know we have to go, but david ignatius, donald trump accused barack obama of being the founder of isis, of creating isis because of the speedy retreat from iran -- i mean from iraq. and so, he wants to -- he's wanted to repeat the same mistake in afghanistan. he wants to repeat the same mistake in south korea. he wants to repeat the same mistake in germany. he wants to repeat the same mistake in an area that you know a great deal about. again, that's syria. he wants america to cower and retreat from the world. this isn't leading from behind. this is just being behind. >> joe, why president trump has decided he wants to pull these

troops out after what were hard-won victories, the truth is that in four years under a policy initially launched by president obama, embraced by president trump, carried through by him in a sensible way, we had an overwhelming victory against isis. it's nearly completed. why trump now wants to lose that leverage is a puzzle that, you know, generals, admirals, all the senior pentagon officials just are struggling to understand. in effect, we're in the process of turning the future of syria over to russia and seeing syria as a battleground simply to contain iranian influence moving west. it's an important goal, but it's not the end of syria's policy. one of the most interesting things that's happened in the last few months is that russia and israel now have found common cause on some elements of syria policy, that's what's really

driving the agenda towards this helsinki summit is the israeli/russian agreement about what syria should look like, which the united states is going to go along with. in the meantime, all that hard work that we did in the east, i've been there three times traveling with our troops, i'll tell you, they worked hard to get the stability that they have there now. it's going to go away as soon as those troops come out. >> so speaking of russia, a controversial call in the russia/spain match. >> vladimir putin actually -- >> leads to one of the greatest upsets in world cup history. >> it's not really an upset if it's a scam. >> oh, now. you don't know that. >> they tackled -- >> a lot of people are wondering -- >> they tackled two spain players in the box. >> we'll discuss that ahead on "morning joe." my digestive system used to make me feel sluggish

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welcome back to "morning joe." so, i've got this friend -- >> uh-huh. >> who tells me last week -- >> this is true. >> he keeps telling me russia -- >> amen is here because we're talking about soccer. >> this is fixed. said the officials are scared of putin. >> he predicted exactly this. >> he did. let me tell you, russia is going to be outplayed by spain. they're going to get a penalty

kick to tie it, and then he said you watch, they will be tackling spanish players and the refs will be afraid to call it. yesterday -- by the way, i was rooting for spain because i didn't want to hear from this guy for the rest of my life. i'm going to hear from him, because guess what, he's right. it looked fixed. i'm going to say it. i'm going to say it, it looked fixed. when you're near the end of the game, there's a corner kick and two, count them, two spanish players are grabbed and tackled to the ground in a move that if it happened to just one player -- >> it would have been a foul. >> we know in the premier league it would immediately be a foul. instead, what happened? >> this is the crazy thing in this play -- everything is on the line. you mad two spanish players going in for this header and they were both tackled. and i think everybody who watched that immediately thought -- now, here is the interesting thing. >> by the way, let us explain to

american viewers, not tackled as defined by what americans call soccer. tackled by what americans call american football. they were literally grabbed. >> pulled to the ground. >> and pulled to the ground. >> denied a chance to make a play. the interesting thing is there was this moment where the referee had this pause where he was consulting the virtual assistant referee or the kind of referee back in the video referee. >> the replay thank god has actually worked in this world cup. >> yeah, absolutely. interesting enough, in this play it didn't. i think that's why a lot of people on twitter blew up saying there were all these memes vladimir putin making the call there. >> men in blazers. live look at the room right now. it was a clear penalty. as you said, what was so shocking is how quickly, how quickly they said, oh, nothing to see here. move along. >> exactly. the thing about v.a.r. throughout this world cup is they wanted to slow the game down to make sure they got the

calls right. they have made some very important decisive games in these games using v.a.r. this is one of those that will be looked back upon as a negative example of how v.a.r. was not used. >> adding to the ugliness, russia's very -- the awarding of the world cup to russia and qatar at the same time were both questioned as fifa being paid off. >> i don't think anyone looks at fifa and says this is a model organization of transparency. there's a lot of questions about fifa and its process. >> we were talking about this yesterday, just how corrupt fifa has been in the past. the only reason they brought in the united states, canada and mexico for 2026 is because american sponsors said this brand is ugly and there were reports that american sponsors were backing away from the world cup because, again, its reputation had been so tarnished. >> the last couple years fifa has taken a big hit. there was a report about how

fifa officials were getting all kinds of kickbacks and the football federations of the various regions, the asian, europeans have had their own set of problems about how money has tainted the sport. it's something that fifa has struggled to really grapple with for years. >> so let's talk about what's happening today. mexico and brazil. that one -- >> seismic. >> that should be an incredible match. >> mexico is playing with confidence after beating germany, although they struggled in the last two games. brazil is starting to hit their stride, but they are certainly playing an opponent that knows it can rise to a big game. this is as big of a game as it gets for mexico. brazil has the upper hand but mexicans will come with a lot of confidence after beaten germany 1-0 in their opening game. >> a lot of people in britain excited. it looks like england has about as easy pass to the finals that they will ever get. doesn't mean they won't lose to colombia. >> if you're an english fan you're watching since 1966 when they won the world cup, you now

have a chance to make it to the final. everybody on that side of the bracket with the exception of england will be a first-time world cup winner. so you've got countries like croatia has made it. >> croatia looks surprisingly weak yesterday. >> they hadn't played as well as they did in the first round. this was a team that was favored to do really well. they struggled against denmark. >> taking after his father, huh? >> it was really incredible. so do you have -- what team right now, if you had power rankings, who would you put number one right now? >> definitely france. they have the youngest team and playing with so much confidence. the fact that they were losing to argentina, came back and blew them out of the world. they have a 19-year-old who scored two goals. to have a 19-year-old play at that level score and perform. the only thing with france is their inexperience. they're such a young team. >> people comparing him to pele, of course, nobody is pele, but

that said -- >> if there is, it's possibly -- >> he has a great attitude. what about ronaldo and messi never scoring a goal in elimination? >> i elimination. >> it's hard to imagine a world cup without the two best players bust they can't carry a team. argentina never thart stride. portugal did well in the first-round. people thought they would win. again very flat. >> you think france win? >> i think france and brazil on this side of the semi-final and then croatia. >> you think england will let croatia win? i think you'll have england and russia. because they will rig it again. england and russia on one side of the bracket. >> regardless of all of that around the game you have to give it to the russian fans they made the atmosphere very fun.

>> we'll expand out to a story that everybody knows. lebron to the lakers. holy moley. >> 154 million. >> i have some mixed feelings about that. >> four years. >> yeah. >> okay. >> you want to talk about the world cup or lakers. >> on the world cup i just want to say i thought spain played rope a dope soccer and to go all the way to the penalty kick shoot out, i have to say they didn't deserve that win. lebron is a very good scorer. >> real quickly on spain. russia can win a sing game by playing defense. spain had thousand passes. spain had 80% ball control. all these statistics shows spain

dominated the game. but russia will not win a world cup by playing defensively. you can win one game. >> they have an expression in soccer, you talk about parking the bus, literally, 11 players guarding the goal and putin. putin parks two or three buses. thank you. still ahead, canada responds to donald trump's tariffs by hitting u.s. goods with billions of dollars in taxes on everything from strawberry jam and ketchup to toilet paper and ball point pen. >> that will help struggling americans. >> we'll discuss the implications ahead on "morning joe". it was here.

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still ahead on "morning joe" amaid nationwide protests over immigration -- >> i'm sorry -- >> a handful of democrats are calling for i.c.e. to be abolished. we'll show you how donald trump seized on their comments and

asked the question if they are overreaching. >> didn't most democrats also come out against that idea. >> yeah. got to be careful. deputy attorney general rod rosenstein has publicly defended his involvement in the firing of james comey, but behind-the-scenes comey said he felt used by the white house. >> you know why he felt that way? he was used by the white house. >> we'll be right back. (vo) this is not a video game. this is not a screensaver. this is the destruction of a cancer cell by the body's own immune system, thanks to medicine that didn't exist until now. and today can save your life. ♪ ♪

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it's monday, july 2nd. we have noah rothman, president of the council on foreign relations richard haas. columnist and associate editor for "the washington post" david ignatius, nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host of kasiedc, hunt. and "new york times" reporter jeremy peters. also with us -- >> do you have any fourth of july plans david ignatius? >> you know, i am trying to get started on a new novel, joe. this would be my 11th. the so my fourth of july plans is to write another chapter or two. i think my plans has plans to drag me out of the house and watch fireworks.

>> what an exciting weekend. really great. watching you hunker down and write a book. i was going to say, i was going to come down, i decided i told mika we'll change our plans and go down to washington for fourth of july because the red sox are playing the 3rd and 4th and playing at 11:30 in the morning against the national. but it's 99 and humidity is going to be about 200%. >> that washington heat is not -- >> going to be hot. >> we still might. >> a lot to get to. canada has begun implementing billions of $of retaliatory tariffs. >> the president said they would get our shoes and smuggle them over the border and scuff them so they look old. >> if they look old and sound

old. no way they could smug tell shoes. >> tariffs worth $12.6 billion in response to trump administration's steel and aluminum tariffs. a lengthy list of u.s. goods including chocolate, beef, whiskey now will be subject to 10% or 20% tax. in the words of canada's foreign minister quote, we'll not escalate and not back down on the dollar for dollar response. china is set later this week to impose a tough 25% tariff on u.s. soybeans in addition to rising pork duties on its own retaliatory tariffs on american products. >> harley-davidson moving production. >> there's that. general motors says if the trump administration imposes its threatened tariffs on car imports, it may be forced to cut american jobs, wages and investment. this is going well.

and the "financial times" database >> winning trade wars is easy. ichts easy. you know what he said. >> this is the art of the deal. >> so, richard, i've been noticing much of the same way i started reading articles before the 2008 crash of some concerns about these trade deals causing smart capital to flea markets to get out of markets. not smart capital not investing in flea markets, they are fleeing markets. >> thank you for that. >> you're welcome. a and scaramucci over the weekend said he was hearing from his investor friends that helps tariffs are starting to cause a real panic among smart money. and there's going to be consequences if he doesn't back down. >> we're already seeing the consequences. the markets are getting spooked by this.

it's not just direct tariffs. in some cases they do different things. the idea the secretary of treasury was surprised that foreigners shockingly enough would not put tariffs on the same products but they would be strategic, they don't take your pawn they take your rook. i thought trade wars were to be balanced. >> it's called a war. donald trump calls it a war. they are going to fight the war back. >> asymmetrical responses to inflict pain on us. we're seeing with gm and everybody else it's the government of the inputs going up. whatever small number of jobs we save will be overwhelmed in the much larger number of jobs are lost when americans stop buying goods that were far more expensive. this is so not thought through. >> should this have been thought

out through before. >> everybody warned him inside the white house, outside the white house. everybody warned him. and as we have been warning on this show, it's not going to be donald trump's billionaire friends after passing tax cuts for them. they are not the americans that are hurt. it's going to be the americans that you spoke with last week in your article, people who support donald trump. the same people that will be hurt when later this year they realize that if they have pre-existing conditions or their children have pre-existing conditions, those are no longer going to be covered by their health care insurance. >> that's right. people do feel pretty good right now. of course, we're still a few months out from the election. if this market pressure, economic pressure continues to grow and build, and we get closer to november and people aren't seeing those bonuses in their checks any more, they

aren't feeling the impact of the tax cut because gas prices keeps spiking or costs of consumer goods keep rising that could be a big political threat. i think big picture here, trump's tariff wars, his immigration car, everything is cultural with trump. you have these threats from foreign nations who are trying to punish the united states, taking advantage of us because we are weak. and at the same time you have the immigration wars going on because there are invading forces coming in to overtake and remake our culture. so i think all of this fits together perfectly with the kind of president we knew we were getting. >> we're beginning to see a pattern. to add to this new reporting, the white house drafted a bill that would allow the u.s. to operate outside the rules of international trade. the draft legislation essentially abandons the framework set by the world trade organization without a formal withdrawal while the united

states fair and reciprocal tariff act would face an uphill battle on capitol hill because it allows the president to raise u.s. tariffs at will without congressional consent. the report comes days after trump reportedly told government officials his desire to withdraw the u.s. from the world trade organization, so let's look at the pattern. it seems to me -- and you talked about the culture wars or the red meat issue, like, for example, the separation policy. the president throws out the red meat. he separates over 2,000 kids from their parents at the border and then couple of weeks go by and he realizes it's really bad pr so he pulls back on it to try to clean up the mess but then realizes it's not that easy to clean up. so we're still sitting here with over 2,000 kids separated from their families with absolutely no word on exactly how they are going to be reunited airlines and concern some may never be.

this seems to be a pattern for the president in terms how he carries out his foreign policy which is act first, throw out the red meat and then realize it's a mess later. >> i think what president trump has tried to get credit for when it comes to the separation of families is he's someone who creates crisis and then attempts to fix it. i interviewed a young boy who hasn't seen his dad for over a month who was separated in mcallen, texas in dad and that 17-year-old cried the entire interview. there's a lot of images and 4-year-olds. i talked to the 17-year-old. he's 17, a bit more mature. shattered by the fact that he doesn't know when he'll see his father again. this culture war, it's the idea president trump is saying you have to make a decision. will you choose these families who lost their loved ones to undocumented immigrants who killed them.

those numbers are small. undocumented immigrants are not committing crimes any more than anyone else but this idea president trump is saying its these families that lost their loved ones and these immigrants that are brown that are crying. which one do you feel more sympathic for. i talked to trump supporters who said to me there are programs that helped me personally, if the president takes them away i'll have to do my part because we have to stop these people from invading our country. i suspect when trump supporters start feeling in their paycheck the trade wars hurt them they can justify to themselves i have to do my part. that's what people will say. >> jeremy is talking about culture wars. at least in my experience there were just a small fraction of republican voters who would want you to get out of the world trade organization because they see it as part of some

international order of bankers and, you know, the george soros' of the world and tri-lateral commission and, you know council on foreign relations. i'm looking at you, richard. this is a very small subset of the republican party and yet donald trump is guiding u.s. policy based on that and i'm -- i'm just talking pure politics. i don't see that this is a big payoff unless you're a john burger at the end of the day if we start paying consequences for it. >> yeah. depending on the poll you read, and i've seen a couple that suggests faith in trade and people's believe that immigration is a valuable asset to the united states is on the rise in the trump era which is counter intuitive. at the same time, donald trump is beholding to a very narrow, as you say, politicnarrow const.

>> why is that? why is he narrow casting? why is he to concussion on such a small group of supporters when, when he can be expanding. most politicians go in -- this is sort of what i've never understood about him. i mean we always thought that the guy would, you know, said from the beginning i was voting against him. but i always thought the guy would go in and do whatever was the most calculating political move to make. instead he has been narrow casting in a way that should have him sitting at 25% right now. >> well, i mean he's doing better in the polls but not all that much better. he won the vote with 46%. he's about at 45% job approval. if you voted for donald trump you support donald trump. that hasn't changed. if it doesn't change in 2020

he's at a problem. democrats face the obstacle that they face every time there's a good economy and a republican president they have to run it down. every time they have attempted to do that like nancy pelosi making cynical remark about consumer confidence at an 18 year high it's difficult for democrats to rally against an administration where the economy is good. >> if people feel they are doing better with these economic policies, trump is going to keep sailing. i do think that we've seen the last three, four months that all the rhetoric about a trade war, which people tend to discount, they thought the damage that would to be done here would be too significant, that our trading partners would pull back, that what trump is really after is compromise. that's ended up proving wrong.

this is now accelerating. and we're beginning to see real effects. and i do think, as you said earlier, anthony scaramucci, not my favorite expert but he's warning as others on wall street that this will have financial market consequences and if you begin to see the stock market to take a hit between now and the mid-terms a couple of months before the mid-terms people getting nervous and saying wow this trade war is really happening in a global economy that will have negative consequences for producers and courtroo consumers and trump voters, people will re-evaluate. the economy going well who is going to complain. >> if peter navarro can talk the market out of a sell off, the market does want to be talked out of a sell off. >> the market is ready for a sell off. you've seen what's happened in the emerging markets. they done down. it's very hard for democrats to

attack trump on trade policy because so many of them support it. >> this is -- donald trump has taken bernie sanders position on trade. actually it's a position donald trump has had because donald trump was a new york democrat his entire life. this is a position he had when he was on the "today" show in 1988, 1999, except then he was talking about trade wars with japan. >> only issue hillary clinton, bernie sanders and donald trump agreed on was what? they all opposed the transpacific partnership which was in the interest of the united states. >> which shows you how screwed up political incentives are, because all three of those took a position that helped our number one economic competitor over the next 50 years, china. what a windfall for whine. >> it shows you where the politics are, and it's one of

the real challenges. technically take a step back you mentioned the i.c.e. issue before. where the democrats are, and are they going to be a left party or are they going to be a center party? are they going to be a party of opposition or a party of potential governing? they got to decide. >> they are so challenged. >> issues of trade. >> this is something we'll talk about this weekend, which is the best way to explain donald trump is not donald trump, it's who donald trump ran against and who donald trump is running against now, which is you tell me if somebody wasn't going to vote for hillary clinton, are they going to vote for the party of nancy pelosi, chuck schumer. and you just -- you add the list. >> let's get to the "new york times" reporting attorney general rod rosenstein felt shaken, unsteady and overwhelmed in the immediate aftermath of the firing of fbi director james

comey. michael smith and adam goldman report that in the months since rod rosenstein reached out to people including in late night texts to discuss how his reputation fared and his fraugs with the white house and members of congress who targeted him. michael schmidt joins us now. how has rod rosenstein private relationship is different from publicly. he seems cool. you can see he's obviously frustrated with what's going on. >> he's very angry. he thinks that the president really wanted to fire comey but used him in his rationalization as the basis for that. that deeply bothers him. this gets at a critical period of time last year between the firing and the appointment of mueller and how rod rosenstein dealt with that. he had provided the memo to the white house, to the president. they went out. they read it on the north lawn of the white house the day that comey was fired saying that

comey had to go for how he treated hillary clinton. it blew back on rod rosenstein, he had only been the deputy attorney general for two weeks at that point and then in the days that follows he comes to a decision to appoint mueller, obviously the biggest thing to happen to the president but most consequential, worst thing to happen him in office so far. >> we've seen rod rosenstein especially in the past three to six months, we've seen that edge grow sharper on him, especially in public, in no mood to be toyed with by republican house members who were trying to twist his words, and trying to undermine his credibility. >> yeah. i think it was either a commencement speech or a forum where he was, he had -- i was surprised how sharply he was willing to step out. just bring it at me. i'm used to this. but michael schmidt, i'm curious

your story says he's worried how his reputation is faring. what exactly is he most concerned about looking like? is he worried he's going to get fired? >> well, i think he was concerned about looking like a lackey for the president in the decision that blew up. this was something that the white house, at least the president thought politically would be a winner, to get rid of comey. obviously a big mistake on the president's behalf not understanding the politics of how that issue would shake out. rod rosenstein still has his job. nothing the president would like to do more than get rid of sessions and rod rosenstein. but the president has scar tissue left over from the comey firing. he knows what folks on capitol hill will say if he goes further. he's not willing to pay that political price. he has had discussions of doing this after the mid-terms. the president has discussed this at many points in the past year but hasn't done it. >> david ignatius?

>> michael, let me ask you, we're now almost at mid-summer. got the mid-term elections coming up, obviously, in november. i'm curious about mueller's timing whether he's likely to make any significant moves or when he begins to go into a phase down period prior to the election. do you have any feel for that? >> no. you know, this is one of the things we struggle with every day on this is getting an idea of what robert mueller is thinking. we spent that time to do that and we have very little insight. keep two things in mind. one, rudy giuliani said mueller should not do anything after september 1st. if he goes beyond september 1st he's heading in to comey territory. i don't think robert mueller will listen to everything that rudy giuliani has to say believe it or not. but what i will say is that i think mueller understands what, you know, what giuliani called was comey territory. doing anything in the lead up to

the election. obviously that's a hugely sensitive election because of what happened in 2016, and my guess this will be in the front of mueller's head and he won want to do anything that look like it is playing into the politics of the moment. >> all right. michael schmidt as always thank you so much for being with us. jeremy, we were talking before about trump voters, there's a lot of focus now, a book out on counties that went for obama in '08, obama in '12 and then trump in '16. you were out talking to trump voters again. very interesting. actually, i found pretty comforting. others were horrified by your article. yes these people are voting -- it's actually in line what i've always said. i remember the first time i campaigned, i looked at people going into the voting booth and i was like okay i don't think they have been going and listening -- for some reason i got the sense they were going to

go in and vote on gut. >> very emotional. >> not policy on how to balance the budget and cure the entitlement crisis. and reading your article i got the sense it just hasn't changed. again these are people they can vote for reagan twice, clinton twice, w. twice, obama twice and vote for donald trump. >> the candidate matters. who would have thought. this is also more about, i think trump's appeal generally and his -- how unconventional he is as a politician. he's republican, sure. he's not a conservative. he's more anti-left. and that has a real appeal. >> it was a brilliant thing you pointed out. he's not a conservative. >> no. >> he's anti-left. >> and i think he does a good job of seizing on some of the more radical, for example, abolish i.c.e. proposals in the democratic party at the moment and saying see look at what

these people want to do. >> by the way, noah rothman is here -- he supports abolishing i.c.e.. seizing on the more extreme moments in academia, hollywood, in corning, on the maxine waters. grab the nfl players not showing respect for the flag. put that into a stew, stir it up, throw in, of course, his blatant racism, and -- >> goes right into donald trump's caldron of culture wars. he's good at exaggerating and embellishing. we're a big target too, the fake media. i can tell you -- this is one of the most distressing things i found in covering voters lately is the number of people who believe that people like me just make things up. fabricate sources and facts out of thin air, sit at our

keyboards and write down whatever i want to be true. >> by the way, saying that and you said that donald trump is very good at doing certain things, one thing he's not doing good at -- people said chinns are very good at being liars, donald trump is a horrible liar. one donald trump saying i urge republicans to vote for good lap two in all caps. the next one over he then later goes after it fails i never wanted them to vote for one or two because it's horrible for america. it was a wonderful line. he said he didn't even bother to delete the first one. you wonder -- you wonder what voters are thinking. and how they have the nerve to cast aspersions on anybody else

for quote fake news or lying when the guy that they support not only lies, but he doesn't even bother covering his track because he has learned he doesn't have to cover his track, he lies and they don't care. i think it's safe to say none of us have ever seen anything like that. >> no. we'll continue to have that conversation. still ahead on "morning joe" we have an update on the fallout from the trump policy of separating families. for every child we've seen reunited with their parent there are hundreds more still miles apart. we'll go live to miami for new reporting on where things stand right now. you're watching "morning joe". we'll be right back.

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it all started when donald trump tore thousands of immigrant children away from their parents. we the people challenged him in court and in the streets. then trump was forced to admit that his policy was wrong. and he caved. the court just ruled that trump must reunite every family he broke apart. (clock ticking rapidly) time is ticking. these children must see their parents again, and they're counting on us to act quickly.

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administration's immigration policies. from coast to coast there were more than 600 families belong together rallies. joining us now from miami, msnbc correspondent. you were there when a mother was reunited with her 7-year-old daughter yesterday. tell bus what you saw. >> reporter: mika, i was with that mother hours before. she brought clothes for her little girl and a toy as she walked the hallways of the airport clinging to those court documents and her 10-month-old baby boy, and then finally that first embrace. two months in the making. this little girl had been kept in a child welfare agency in michigan. the dad prosecuted and jailed in atlanta. he's facing possible deportation. so families scattered, due to the trump administration's zero

tolerance policy. i asked the mother what her message is to other families seeking asylum. >> what's your message? [ speaking foreign language ] >> advise you to find another country to seek refuge in. the law here is too tough. people here don't have a heart. because a skid a treasure you have in life. when they take it away it hurts a lot because the kids are a blessing in your life. >> reporter: you saw especially the little girl's face, mika, when one talks about the language barrier with these families, this girl's first language is mom. it's an in language out of

guatemala. barely speaks any english. barely speaks spanish. the trauma as he had makes phone calls to her mother asking when they will be reunited. they only got the information a couple of days ago. again the long term trauma of a family that's still separated because the dad will be deported is something that any family can i've with. >> there are so many, so many others still waiting and not knowing if they will have this moment. thank you very much for being on the show. president trump is criticizing democrats who have called for abolishing immigration and customs enforcement or i.c.e.. last week senator gillibrand and mayor de blasio called for dismantling the agency. on saturday senator elizabeth warren said i.c.e. should be replaced. not all democrats are on board.

senator schumer said i.c.e. does some functions are needed and pushed for reform. president trump weighed in tweeting democrats are making a strong push to abolish i.c.e.. one of the smartest, toughest and spirited law enforcement groups of men and women i've ever seen. i've watched i.c.e. liberate towns from the grass of ms-13 and clean out the toughest situations. they are great. in a follow up tweet he wrote in part to the great and brave women of i.c.e. do not worry or lose your spirit the radical left dems want you out. next it will be all police, zero chance it will never happen. joining us now is the acting director of i.c.e. and forming acting general counsel of the u.s. department of homeland security, former acting director. >> yes. >> i look first of all, give us a sense exactly the functions that i.c.e. performs for those who are asking and what you think of the call by some

democrats to abolish it. >> i think it's unfortunate and misguided. i understand the frustration when you see policies like we've seen at the border where you're separating kids, when you see the interior immigration enforcement policies we're targeting the wrong people and no longer going after criminals. i can understand where this frustration stems from. it should be an abiolush trump movement not i.c.e. movement. it's not i.c.e.'s fault that the administration adopted these policies. >> it's not. jeremy peters, we see these parallel -- we have the political fight over issues like i.c.e. and trying to throw that into the middle of the conversation and then you have the reunion that we just saw that's going to be so hard fought for about 2,000 children. >> right. >> if they get to this moment. >> exactly. so that woman said this country doesn't have a heart. >> isn't that what trump wants? >> yes. this was supposed to be a deterrent. inside the department of

homeland security despite what kirstjen nielsen said this was meant to be a deterrent. >> kirstjen nielsen was not prepared for that briefing when she said that when she took over for sarah huckabee sanders and proceeded to say everything this policy was not. it was not sending a message. they sent the message. you saw that mother saying don't come here, americans, this country doesn't have the heart, this is not the place to come. that's what trump wants. that's what they got. >> that's exactly right. this is exactly what we were talking about earlier, how trump plays in these culture war fights. he's casting the democrats as the lawless ones. he's the law and order, very nixonian leader who will crack down on these democrats who basically want to turn the country over the bands of illegal gangs. >> exactly right. i was curious, okay, democrats, some of them are now saying abolish i.c.e.. mr. trump jumped all over that

for political reasons. let's put the politics aside. if you had a mandate to reform i.c.e., if there could be a democratic piece of legislation, i would say here's what we want to keep, here's what we need to change. what would i.c.e. 2.0 look like? >> well, i think i.c.e. 2.0 -- first we need to look how we use immigration detention. we adopted this concept we have to detain people to be tough. that's not true. advances in technology with alternatives to detention, ankle bracelets we can reutilize those technologies to have effective immigration enforcement without detention. i.c.e. does a lot of critical work. i.c.e. is divided into two halves. one half is criminal special agents. when i was there we were doing amazing cases like saving children from child exploitation. large so fist indicated money laundering case. the joaquin "el chapo" guzman

case. that's the kind of work that needs be emphasized. i.c.e. is filled with men and women trying to do a great job and committed to public safety. it's how this administration chose to use it. you're starting to see that from i.c.e. itself. 19 said break us away and our criminal work because the way this administration is using the agency as a whole is making us less effective. >> director, you touched on essentially what i wanted to raise. essentially where this bureaucracy is coming to, some controversy when it begins to perform police functions you noticed it was designed to be an investigative mechanism. in the trump era we've seen warrantless raids in oregon and new york and on greyhound buses and arrests that are not necessarily legal, according to democratic senators. is that necessarily an abuse of this agency or is the agency prone to abuse, meaning that as it designs to perform a law

enforcement function and there really is no way to get rid of that as it is designed? >> it's a law enforcement agency to be sure, but i think really the problem is at the end of the day they are tasked with enforcing a set laws that this country is divided upon. we have not modernized our immigration laws. we privately need immigration reform. we have 11.5 undocumented immigrants in this country which the majority have not committed any crimes. 86% have been here since 2006. when you have a law enforcement agency that's tasked with enforcing that law again that pop laying and you have an administration that says unlike the obama administration that says let's focus on the bad guys this administration says let's get all these people who have been here a long time, let's separate families. i think the backlash is inevitable. >> thank you very much for being on the show this morning and i want to go back to the children and ask you what are we learning about where the remaining

children are. we saw a little girl. i've been asking the question on air where are the girl, where are the babies. little guardrail was traumatized and so relieved to see her mother crying. but there are so many other little girls, aren't there? where are the children and what's the plan to reunify them with their parents and are there hiccups in reunifying them all. we've been told repeatedly this would happen. days are turning into weeks. why? >> mainly because the federal government can't answer the critical question of how are you going to reunify each and every family. john was just on. he said on the record that some of these separations might be permanent. permanent separation happens, it happened under his watch, it might happen under the trump administration watch and it happens because adult cases might move faster through the court system. so you might have someone like i talked to a 17-year-old whose father is being held in a new mexico facility. his dad might be deported before

the 17-year-old's case comes up. as a result the 17-year-old might be staying here for years hearing when he's going to get asylum. if you deport the parent to a foreign country, honduras, guatemala, el salvador and leave a 4-year-old in the united states that 4-year-old might become an orphan in the system and end up in the system so long that that 4-year-old ends up getting adopted. the other thing that's important while the government says they have a plan to reunite 2,000 families, there hasn't been a tracking system, at least from what i've been told, there's no track system that will tell you where every single child is. some people got a number, some were photographed with their child. the agency that is supposed to be working together, department of homeland security and department of human and health service have bureaucrat issues to work through to make sure

their systems work together. it could be weeks or months before these families could be back together. >> for some never. thank you. that, you know, i truly will be a stain on this presidency. separating children from their families. in order to throw, perhaps, red meat to the base, perhaps not. it's cruel. it's not who we are. richard, amidst all of this there's an election in mexico. tells us how that plays into this. >> another example of anti-establishment populace winning an election, very vague about what he'll do. stands against corruption, against crime and so forth. what's so interesting about it, it's the example about how establishments have been overwhelmed around the world. have all sorts of implications for him. >> you know him? >> i do. and the question is how successful is mexico, whether, for example he and trump two

populists can get along despite some of the rhetoric coming here, whether or not nafta can be preserved or modernized. if mexico succeeds on so many levels it's good for us. if mexico descends, ironic jalgly enough that will create once again pressure on our southern border. for many reasons it's in our strategic interest that he succeed. but, again, his plans are at the level of 36,000 feet generality how he'll deal with the pressures of office, of translating the promises, but what you have is mexican people so fed up with the corrupt failing establishment that they will turn to someone who is a true outsider who can be pinned down. just shows you what happens in democracies when people feel that traditional politics failed. and they are willing to turn to an alternative and that's what we have in mexico. >> so, coming up conservative groups break with the president on trade. americans for prosperity

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are backfiring? >> the tariffs have been incredible our country is doing great. you're seeing the results. we're doing really good. >> should you be calling out specific companies? you're the president. >> yes, i should. i devoted a lot of time to harley-davidson. i treated them good. everybody who bought a harley-dividendson voted for trump. harley is an american bike, american motorcycle and should build them in this country. i had them for lunch six months ago. i have a feeling that maybe harley -- i think they are going to take a big hit. those are my voters. they don't want harley-davidson to get cute to make $2 more. >> hard to keep track of the sort of circles of lies that the president keeps pushing out there. but there are so many around him that are still willing to destroy their reputations. i want to keep a tally and then move back into tariffs.

definitely bolton on "face the nation". that was good. done. good luck with that. we'll see what the next one is. we haven't heard from rudy in a while. that was a what show. whoa. >> called for regime change. >> rudy did? >> yes. >> i guess no one was listening. when he does he destroys his reputation. kudlow, deficits have been going down. he's willing to do that. okay. because they are not. let's go back to tariffs. joining us now -- we should keep track people willing to put their reputations on the line permanently for donald trump who clearly openly does not tell the truth to the american people and the world. here's the president of americans for prosperity tim phillips. thanks for being on this morning. i'm curious. we heard the president saying that everything is going great.

we're doing really good with these tariffs. is trump's trade wars prosperity in action? >> no, it's not. this administration deserves a lot of credit for this economy doing better. there are tax cuts, tax reforms, eliminating barriers on the regulatory front but these tariffs risks undermining everything good that's happening and we're seeing the impact already. you know this protectionist talk makes a politician feel tough whether it's right or left. it's tough on american consumers. that's who is being hurt by this trade war. >> kasie hunt? >> mr. phillips there's a push in congress to kind of take back some of the tariff power from the president, there's some republicans in particular, jeff flake. but mitch member connell won't give it a vote on the floor. i'm wondering what's your message to mitch mcconnell and would you consider put your

organization's resources to get behind congress. >> we support senator corker and others to allow votes in the senate on this. look, congress ought to have a role on something like this. tariffs, trade policy, we see the danger to nafta right now. nafta has been good for this country, creating a lot of jobs, a lot of prosperity. it is now potentially in danger down the line. we do think congress ought to have a bigger role, and we're calling for that consistently. >> all right. noah? >> tim, so i have seen a lot of controversial comments in the public sphere about how the democratic party is the new free trade party. i'm not buying it. i don't think their members are either, but republicans are clearly turning a wedge against free trade. is there a free trade constituency in the country anymore? >> there is, but it will take a genuine effort to explain the good trade does because it is easy to demagogue this issue. there are folks on the left who do it, on the right.

elizabeth warren stood in beijing a couple of months ago and praised some of the president's early moves on tariffs. so when you have that happening on the left, it is clear there's a demagogue going on. i can tell you americans for prosperity announced a multi-year, multi-million dollar effort to explain how consumer prices are brought down by free trade. people on fixed incomes or those struggling can have a better life because of free trade, and american industries can be hurt, like we're seeing right now, whether it is harley-davidson. i was in new mexico a couple of months ago, and they need new perri peltz lin pipelines to get the oil production booming there to market. guess what. it is going to cost 25%, 30% more for the pipeline because of the tariffs and the trade wars, so it has ripple effects. it hurts real american jobs and companies, and it hurts american

consumers. that's the point we have to make, and we're determined to do it. >> tim phillips, thank you for being on the show this morning. >> you bet. >> still to come on "morning joe" michael collins gives the strongest indication he would be open to coop i thinking with prosecutors against the president. that is ahead on "morning joe." ♪

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still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> we signed an incredible agreement. it is great, and it is going to be great for them, too. because now north korea can develop and north korea can become a great country economically. it can become whatever they want, but there won't be nuclear weapons and they won't be aimed at you and your families. >> that was president trump after returning from his meeting with kim jong-un, but now exclusive nbc news reporting indicates the president might be getting played in a big way.

also ahead -- >> i'll do anything to protect mr. trump, the family, now vice president-elect pence as well as the campaign. >> no, maybe not though actually. the president's long-time fixer michael cohen once said he would take a bullet for donald trump. that no longer seems to be the case. we will tell you what he is saying this morning. we'll be right back. booking a flight at the last minute doesn't have to be expensive. just go to priceline. it's the best place to book a flight a few days before my trip

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"morning joe." it is monday, july 2nd. with us, we have the president of the council on foreign relations, an author of the book "a world in disarray," richard haas. >> why, joe? >> you know why. who wants to talk about baseball. >> i think he does. you guys won a game or two. >> we won the series. >> yeah, in yankees stadium. what to you want? >> yeah. >> was it not crazy. >> look at him. >> three, one-sided -- >> it was great. >> what a series, huh? >> september, june and july. >> i think neither team has been more than two games out for most of the year. >> stunning. >> unbelievable, mika. >> associate editor of "commentary" mag ah zee noah rothman. columnist for "the washington post" david ig ignacious joins us. and host of "kasie dc" on nbc

joins us as well. i love it. she does her show from midnight and is up bright and early monday morning. >> what a trooper. >> what a trooper indeed. >> so let me ask. >> yeah. >> we need a wheel of fortune here that we can spin. i'll play vanna, we can actually spin it. i can ask richard and david ignacious, what dysfunctional foreign faux pas would you like to start with? we could start with north korea. >> i like that one. >> north korea continuing to develop nuclear weapons and long-range missile technology that, yes, could kill all of us while we were sleeping at night with a nuclear weapon. we have that "wall street journal" and others reporting that yesterday. donald trump said two weeks ago the north korea nuclear threat is over, you can sleep well at night. actually we knew he was lying and now we have proof. that's one. or the president wants to completely unilaterally withdraw from the world trade organization. that's a bad one. >> uh-huh.

>> david ignacious, we also have donald trump floating the idea of possibly recognizing russia's invasion, vladimir putin's invasion of ukraine. >> that's -- so many choices, joe. >> where do we start? >> so many examples. >> i've given you those. there's also, of course, donald trump saying he's not going to move on nafta until after the election. what do you guys think? >> i'll take north korea. >> you think north korea? >> it is the most blatantly ominous one. >> well, that is true. and -- >> but also you left out one or two. basically saying that the european union -- >> oh, yes. >> -- is as bad as china. >> as china, yes. >> when it comes to trade. >> because i usually do when i think of the countries that helped us liberate europe from hitler, i think of chairman mao and the regime that followed.

>> it's been nearly three weeks since president trump assured americans they can sleep well at night. >> are you sleeping well at night, noah? >> generally, but nothing to do with north korea. i'm just very tired. >> you cut down all of the trees in your yard, so you can't have trees falling on your -- >> i still have trees falling. >> it is what you can do. upon returning from his summit with north korean dictator kim jong-un in singapore, trump tweeted, everyone can now feel much safer than the day i took office. there is no longer a nuclear threat from north korea. >> there is no longer a nuclear threat from north korea. noah rothman really quickly as we watch it unfurl, we want to build the drama a bit so people don't know exactly where it ends. we just got to play the game again. what if barack obama were stumped enough to have a unilateral meeting, like to rush in a meeting with north korea and then on his way home declare that there's no longer a nuclear

threat from north korea? hard to imagine actually the response. >> oh, i think we can all imagine the response actually. it would be very polarized, very partisan. if barack obama was personally involved in negotiations with the mullahs in tehran, i suspect the bill would have been better received by the public. at the time most people were suspicious of the deal, democrats and republicans included. i think that had a lot to do with the partisan effect. barack obama kept at arm's length distance from the negotiations. >> right. but here we have donald trump coming home. the question is why didn't all republicans stand up and at the time of this, where the president declared the nuclear threat over, when we had the president of the united states standing next to one of the most b barbarous dictators in the world and a few complained, but by and large most remained silent. >> some see it as a treaty, whatever is put before us to ratify it, but there's nothing to ratify at this point.

there's no language, there's no documentation about verification, regimes, timetable, disclosures. they're hoping to get some form of declaration i think this week or early next, but the return of some sort of urgency into the negotiations is remarkable. we were all sort of on the same page before we started talking about this summit. time was not on our side. >> right. >> they need time, china needs time, we don't have time. we need to get to it quickly. then we had the summit and the line became let's lean back and see what happens. >> and we got nothing out of the summit, absolutely nothing. >> actually, i think there were giveaways. let's back up. the president added, before taking office people were assuming we were going to war with north korea. president obama said that north korea was our biggest and most dangerous problem. no longer. sleep well tonight. but now according to an exclusive nbc news report, multiple u.s. sources say that u.s. intelligence agencies believe despite the agreement north korea has actually increased its production of

enriched uranium for nuclear weapons at multiple secret sites in recent months. multiple u.s. officials also say there's evidence that north korea is trying to deceive the u.s. about its nuclear stockpile arsenal and secret production facilities. that reporting has also been confirmed by "the washington post." in addition, new reports indicate north korea is nearly done with a major expansion of a key missile manufacturing facility which produces solid fuel, ballistic missiles and re-entry vehicles for long-range nuclear-capable missiles. >> which, of course, can right now, richard, carry -- "wall street journal" report right here -- could right now carry nuclear-tipped missiles to bases across asia, but also carry a nuclear payload to the continental united states. >> look, absolutely. this was going to be the inheritance of the 45th president, no matter who was in the job. north korea had finally reached

this point of development, and the question was what we were going to do with it. really only three options. live with it, and that was obviously unacceptable. go to war or try to do something diplomatic. the problem facing the trump administration is not that they tried to do something diplomatically, they did, but they have dramatically oversold. >> not only that. they rushed in. fools rush in. that was the definition of fools. >> they rushed in unilaterally. then again, they claimed way too much for it. so the question now is, can they walk things back to where they were? can we resurrect any credible threat? sanctions are fast disappearing. south korea wants no part of them. china and russia obviously. all of the pressure on north korea is beginning to unravel. north korea meanwhile is forging ahead. so can this administration regain any control over this process as it goes forward? not obvious right now. >> david ignacious, it is not

just about like every foreign policy expert in washington, d.c. and across the world that knew north korea, it is not like they didn't warn him against doing this, that if he gave kim jong-un this propaganda win, kim jong-un would want nothing else, need nothing else from it. that was a warning time and time again. sure enough, we find out while he's getting the propaganda win, they are still working not only on their nuclear program but on their long-range ballistic program that, again, could deliver a nuclear weapon to the continental united states. >> i think the strange thing about this negotiation has been that it has been upside down. usually you have many months, sometimes years of preparatory work, where the experts meet and categorize the weapons and make decisions about what can be reduced and where it is located, do the inventories, and then finally you get a document and you get the historic handshake

agreement. in this case it was flipped upside down. you start with a handshake and all of the flags and trump comes home and claims a win, and then we get down to work in assessing what do the north koreans have, what to they have that they had been trying to hide, what are they continuing to build. so i think, to be honest, i think it is still better to be in a diplomatic process, even though you're running to catch up in a sense, than where we were a year ago with the very direct threats of taking out the north korean nuclear capability. >> yeah. >> and we'll see now, as mike pompeo, the secretary of state, goes to pyongyang for another round of conversations this week to try to get the agreed list of what they've got and the schedule for how they're going to begin to dismantle it, whether there's anything real

here. >> yeah. >> this is the moment. again, it is backwards. this should have happened six months ago, but we'll see no whether there's something there. >> well, and donald trump should not have come back from munich waving a piece of paper saying peace in our time. it is preposterous. this is the most direct threat to the united states, not only barack obama said it. anything that knows anything about foreign policy said it. i think trump said it before, which, of course, was why he was insulting kim jong-un the way he was. but he came home and said the nuclear problem is over, sleep well at night. now we find out two weeks later they didn't even -- you know, they didn't even have the manners to wait until summer was out before, you know, they continued amping up their perhaps to obliterate us, to have the ability to obliterate the united states of america. >> it is almost like they're north korea. >> it is almost like they're acting like north korea, who has made fools of american presidents for a quarter of a

century now. >> and you should be really concerned about the language, that sort of approach, which is focused on domestic politics. there's a domestic audience for the tweet. i was reading a "new york times" story about this declaration that mike pompeo is seeking to secure, and in that was an unnamed official talking about the secret site of cascading centrifuges, saying if they don't disclose this secret site that we didn't really know about for a year, then these negotiations will fall right apart. >> how did they get the secret sites? >> let them disclose the secret site and we know the extent they're serious. if anybody is reading the paper they have to disclose the site. >> verification is not about seeking for secret sites. verification is one side gives a full accounting, this is everything we have, production facilities, weapons, missiles, what have you, here is where they are. go check them out. basically you are welcome on this afternoon, at this time to go check it out. >> still ahead on "morning joe",

vladimir putin stole territory from ukraine by force. is the trump administration poised to legitimize that? in the words of john bolton, we'll see. that is straight ahead on "morning joe." but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> heat continues to be the big story, especially in areas of the northeast. we cooled you off in areas of the great lakes and ohio valley at least for now. 59 million people at risk of the excessive heat warning and advisories, from maine to northern vermont into areas around norfolk and virginia beach. who will see the hottest heat indices later today, that's the combination of heat and humidity. it looks like norfolk. look at this, looks like 115 this afternoon. at one point in connecticut there was a city that felt like 120. connecticut, yes. today, 109 in d.c. new york city will feel like 102. even in northern vermont, burlington, will feel like 103. a lot of people wondering about

your plans on wednesday, there will be a lot of downpours on the gulf coast especially from houston, down to baton rouge and new orleans. you is a chance for getting rained out for your plans. hopefully not, but there's a potential at least. storms going through minnesota and hit and miss showers and storms from detroit to new york city. here is the 10:00 p.m. forecast, the important one when the fireworks are shooting in the sky, the showers and storms dying off on the gulf coast, and hit and miss showers on the east coast. macy's show looks fantastic with 77 degrees and partly cloudy skies. new york city one of the spots under an excessive heat warning today. temperatures in the mid 90s with a heat index of 100 to 105. you are watching "morning joe." we will be right back. this is your wake-up call. if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis, month after month, the clock is ticking on irreversible joint damage.

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president trump, when he was speaking to reporters, seemed to leave the door open to recognizing russia's annexation of crimea, saying, "we'll have to see what happens when the issue comes up in the meeting." is the u.s. endorsing the idea that international borders can be redrawn by force? is this actually a topic? >> no, that's not the position of the united states, but i think the president -- >> which is why it was news worthy when he said it. >> i don't know that's what he said. i think the president often says "we'll see" to show he's willing to talk to foreign leaders about a range of issues and hear their perspective. president putin was clear with me about it and my response was we have to agree to disagree on ukraine. >> it is not up for negotiation? >> it is not the position of the united states. >> saying "we'll see" suggests there might be. >> well, we'll see. >> it is shocking for our european allies. >> i don't think it is shocking at all. the position of the united states is clear on this. >> is it open to changing if the president is saying the door is

open? >> the president makes the policy. >> you know, i -- >> good job. >> when he said, it is not shocking at all, everybody watching that could have finished the sentence. john bolton couldn't say it, but he probably wanted to say it is not shocking at all, donald trump is the president of the united states. so -- >> just like he owns the separation policy of children at the border, this policy is announced by this president we'll see what happens. but it will be owned by him. >> to the extent there's any rule in international relations that keeps the world from being a jungle, it is the i dea that you cannot use military force to change borders. >> no. >> the idea people are even thinking about, thinking about -- >> playing with it. >> -- accepting what the russians have done in crimea is stunning. you know, in a world where you think you can't be stunned anymore, that is stunning. >> there's a lot of daylight between president trump and national security advisor john bolton regarding opinions of

russia and vladimir putin. as recently as a year ago, bolton wrote an op-ed in "the telegraph" entitled vladimir putin looked trump in the eye and lied to him." >> correct. >> we negotiate with russia at our peril. >> yes. >> thank you. where bolton called putin a serial liar who committed a, quote, act of war by interfering in the 2016 election. >> good on ya. >> and as russia's invasion of crimea was beginning, bolton wrote another op-ed slamming putin's agenda while arguing the u.s. should arm ukraine. >> hear, hear. who is this guy, david ignatius and where has he been all of my life? >> where was he yesterday? >> actually for those of us who have been concerned about john bolton, the two areas at least for me, where i took some comfort john bolton would be inside there would be russia and iran. it will be interesting to see -- well, and north korea. my god. >> he was the -- he was the hawk

who was also pointing out the fallacy of trying to negotiate with the kim family. >> well, by the way, and talked about actually bombing north korea and bombing iran. we're a long way from that. >> well, that was then, this is now. i thought that that little passage you showed of bolton yesterday was one of the most squirm-worthy i have watched. in the sense that every time he was pressed on what is our policy about russian continued holding of crimea for example, he just said, "we'll see." do you mean to say that that could -- these officials are terrified of contradicting a president whose judgments from hour-to-hour, day-to-day they just don't know. i think it is one of the great untold stories of national security, at the pentagon, at the national security council, at the state department. you have people who literally

don't know from one day to the next where the president is going to end up. >> and they're short staffed. >> and this is worrying our allies who try to look at this and are finally shrugging our shoulders and saying, we have to make our own plans. in asia, the koreans and japanese in asia, key allies, are watching it in the same way. what is this guy going to do next, and they don't know. my point is they're beginning to make alternative plans for their security, and that's what should concern us as they begin to move away from what has been a reliable american security umbrella toward different ways of thinking about how to stay safe. >> i utterly wish republicans on capitol hill would make alternative plans for what the gop's national security plan looks like, kasie, because on the hill, the republicans more fearful of a tweet coming their

way than north korea taking advantage of us in negotiations, republicans on the hill are afade to speak out because they don't know what dd onald trump going to say tomorrow. here you have again the question hanging over congress this week, even though russia is telling reuters it is not on the agenda, russia doesn't know whether it is on the agenda or not because, well, donald trump may put it on the agenda. >> and, you know, we may not have any idea what the president actually says in this meeting. you remember one of the last times he encountered the russian president he at any time have a translator with him that was on the american side. so to a certain extent we have no idea, you know, what the conversations are about. i think, you know, this is one of the things where you have actually seen members of congress come out and speak pretty forcefully about this president's relationship, about america's relationship with the russians, about the dangers of russian meddling. >> coming up on "morning joe",

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president trump's ex personal attorney michael cohen, who has said in the past he would take a bullet for trump, has reorganized his priorities. in an interview with abc news saturday, cohen said -- sent a signal if pressed he would cooperate with investigators. here it is. quote, my wife, my daughter and my son have my first loyalty and always will. i putnam family and country fir cohen said. once i understand what charges might be filed against me, if any at all, i will defer to my new counsel for guidance. asked how he might respond if trump's legal team tries to. he said i will not be a villain

of the story and i will not allow others to try to depict me that way. cohen said the mueller investigation should not be called a witch-hunt. that's disagreeing with president trump. he repudiated russia's attempt to interfere in the election and said simply accepting the denial of mr. putin is unsustainable. jeremy peters, it seems michael cohen has found his voice. >> it does. this was always one of the more peculiar story lines but one that was bound to erupt because as we all know trump loves his petty torments. he loves to humiliate people. we have seen it with jeff sessions, with rex tillerson. these are cabinet officials, and the humiliation that cohen was subject to over the years, not just that but the fact that he from what i'm told has a wife who is not very fond of donald trump and certainly can't be very happy with the way he's being treated, this probably was only just a matter of time. we have to wait to see what happens. >> kasie, what do you think?

i would think it would be nice if some republicans felt a little more concerned about their reputations, because at some point this presidency ends but their political careers, if they want them, what do they do? >> well, i think their political careers may still be brighter regardless than michael cohen's seems to be in the face of robert mueller quite frankly. and i think the sense, it seems to me, is that he is finally getting some very high-quality legal advice. clearly this interview, which took place off camera, was a very specific step in a certain direction. harbour town to ha it had to be designed to send a signal. one of the other things that age news is reporting is there was an agreement previously between michael cohen's attorneys and attorneys for the president about sharing information. that will be torn up now. that i think sends a real concrete signal here. of course, the question is, don't forget, michael cohen is intimately involved -- was intimately involved in the

discussions around a trump tower moscow. so i'm also curious, his comments about the russia investigation not being a hoax, you know, not saying that they meddled being unsustainable. what does he know? what does he have? how is evolved directly in trump campaign ties to moscow? >> good question. joining us now, host of msnbc "politics nation" and president of the national action network al sharpton. also co-host of amanpour on pbs, alisa menendez. good to have you both. you guys took part in marches across the country. what are you hearing from people who gathered? clearly they're on one side of the separation issue. did they get in, i guess, pushback from -- were there any counterprotesters? >> no, i was at the march in brooklyn, new york, and there were no counter-protesters and members of the national action

network around the country, i didn't hear of any. i think it is hard for people to look at the footage and videos of children literally being taken from the arms of their mothers and say that we condone that. even president trump uncharacteristically has tried to at least rhetorically say he's not for that, while his actions have been otherwise. the problem though -- and i think the reason that many of us that have been out there early on this. i went to mechanicccallen a cou weeks ago is the problem is we're not seeing the movement. we've seen the executive order, but only a handful of children reconciled with their parents. they're saying we can't even fill the order of the court, and this federal judge saying i give you 30 days to do it. oh, we can't do it, which is really admitting they had no plan in the first place for reconciliation. it is absolutely unthinkable

that they went into this, mika, with no plan even on their own schedule of what they were trying to do, to say at some point they had to reconcile. they never intended to even think about that, and that's a moral disgrace. >> it is a callousness that -- i mean, alisa, i would love for you to chime in not only with your experiences with this but on where the story is at. for me it is kind of a full-stop moment where, you know, the issues of family and country are being torn to shred. also the issue of the press and our ability to cover the story, our access to the story, the manipulation of the press, the propaganda video, the race issue. i mean the list goes on, and every issue that somebody may have a problem with this presidency, it is wrapped up in this separation policy. i just wonder what the organizing is like on the ground here.

like the women's movement, does it add up to something where we can continue to pursue the question as citizens? >> so, mika, i was reporting from the miami march, which was admittedly much smaller than some of the other national marches, a few hundred people. there were a number of trump counter-protesters there, a handful to the hundreds that came out to support family reunification and to protest trump's zero tolerance policy. that's what brought these people out. organizers were quick to point out, it is critical that the emphasis and attention stays on this issue until every parent has been reunited with every child. at the same time in the wake of president trump signing that executive order, effectively fixing a problem of his own creation, the contours of this conversation have shifted. so instead of talking about family separation, the conversation now becomes about indefinite family detention centers and whether or not we as a country are okay with that. it also becomes about some of

the reporting we've seen around doj's proposed plans to radically change asylum policy here in the united states, changes that will make it much more difficult for central american asylum seekers to seek refugee status here. and beyond that, one of the signs i saw at the miami protest that stood out to me said, "keep haitian families together." a reminder while we are focused on the border, focused on families and children being separated at the border, there's a reality happening for hundreds of thousands of haitians, salvadorans, hon durans who lived and worked in the united states legally for years, many who have american-born children who are on the brink of seeing their temporary protected status being revoked and having to face the same decision for themselves of whether or not they stay in the united states, living in the shadows as undocumented immigrants after years of having worked here legally, whether they leave the american-born children here who have all of the rights of american-born citizens and they return home to

their countries of origin. it is happening to people that lived here legally for years. >> as alisa points out, the magnitude of this issue which obviously goes far beyond the separation issue, but this separation policy is defining for this presidency. i guess now the question is politically for democrats. the handful of democrats that brought the concept of abolishing i.c.e., you have a certain network going wall to wall on that right now. how careful -- well, how precarious a path is this for democrats to not only be the response for trump -- to trump, but to develop a coherent message? >> i think that the moral premise of the argument of separation of families is one thing as well as we that have said that i.c.e. has to be changed or brought into a new level. but the politics of it is something the democrats have to be careful of, because when you

gain the moral high ground on a president that really on this one has stumbled, don't push too much beyond where you need to go. you know, i was taught growing up in the civil rights movement that if you get too far ahead of your troops they can't tell you from the enemy, you can get shot from behind. i think that you've got to stay with where you have finally got the public. i think most of the american electorate is either sympathetic or with us on separation of families. don't get too far ahead. i'm for the abolition of i.c.e., but don't replace something that everybody's not ready for until you achieve what you already have. >> i want to ask the question of where are the children? why can't we see them? how many babies are we talking about? are there possibilities that some will not be reunited with their families? that this president owns. that's a clear question. >> and why would you tell a federal judge you can't do it in 30 days? >> it is really clear and basic. remember, this president has

very basic instincts and he relies on them every day, a day trader, very low rent. don't think big and you'll stay with him and understand his thinking. >> right. >> don't think big, don't think long-term, don't strategize, don't try to think what the real impact might be. he's right here. it is red meat, it is all in front of his face, like watching tv. it is very basic. it is the cartoon president. >> it does seem like you have a good handle on what the political pit bulls are for democrats going too far. to the extent however they have kb embraced the anti-i.c.e. crusade when the problem is with cdp, the agency that polices the border. they retrofitted on to the existing things, the existing problem, suggesting it is essentially an agenda issue. and who is going to tell the protesters, which are providing new and vital energy to democrats, they are going too far, they've lost their scope, they're not focused on this issue but are -- you know,

advancing an existing agenda. >> i think people that are in leadership positions and that have been in this issue -- because a lot of people are just coming in. you have to see it in a larger context. i was in england a couple of weeks ago. you have a different kind of import of citizens there in terms of caribbeans. it is an issue in germany. this is a global showdown of how nations, particularly western nations, are dealing with exporting people of color. so there's a global kind of race issue in this. don't get in the way of what is the real bottom, fundamental problems we are facing here in the western hemisphere. >> alisa, jump in. final thoughts? >> you know, a lot of the people who i spoke with at miami, this was the first active protest they engaged in since donald trump became president. so there is a question of why this issue has ignited a passion in people that has taken to this point to do. you know, i also spoke with a lot of hispanics who said this

could have been me, this could have been my family. it is hitting close to home for a lot of people. >> alisa menendez and reverend al sharpton, thank you very much. up next, we have an early look at how the markets are reacting to the president's trade policy. we will be right back. you're headed down the highway when the guy in front slams on his brakes out of nowhere. you do, too, but not in time. hey, no big deal. you've got a good record and liberty mutual won't hold a grudge by raising your rates over one mistake. you hear that, karen? liberty mutual doesn't hold grudges. how mature of them!

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there's no bright line level of the stock market that's going to change policy. the president is trying to fix long-term problems that should have been dealt with a long time ago. there obviously is going to be some pulling and tugging as we try to deal with very serious problems. >> right. >> so there will be some hiccups along the way. commerce secretary wilbur ross this morning on cnbc saying there's no level of todown siden the stock market that could change how president trump approaches trade. let's see how they're doing.

cnbc's sarah eisen. the markets are set to face new pressure as billions of dollars worth of retaliatory tariffs on the u.s. take effect this week. are we seeing any differences? >> absolutely mika. this is an escalation of the trade fight, skirmish, call it what you want. it is getting worse and the commerce secretary's point about the market is about to be tested. global stocks are reacting to trade tensions. we are coming off a down week for stocks and looks like we're going to start lower. it has been a tumultuous few weeks here. if you are keeping score about the tariffs back and forth, the taxes on products, as of yesterday canada is in position of tariffs, took effect, $12.5 billion worth of u.s. products, everything from caffeine to chocolate, ketchup, toy let paper, going north of the border will be taxed, of course, in response to president trump's tariffs on steel and aluminum on canadian products. now, the big one is this friday. that is when the u.s. tariffs

will start to be imposed on chinese goods. $34 billion worth of chinese products. the u.s. administration is going to tax things like robotics and engines, other forms of technology. china has promised to immediately retaliate and start taxing key exports from the united states like soybeans and autos. so clearly this is starting to have an economic real world impact. businesses are responding. just want to highlight a comment from the chamber of commerce, which is the biggest business lobby, very much against what president trump is doing here, saying, "the administration is threatening to undermine economic progress it worked so hard to achieve. we should seek free and fair trade, but this is just not the way to do it." you will be hard-pressed to find a u.s. company in favor of these policies. just the make matters work, mika, there is a report that the u.s. is looking at a bill to take the united states out of wto, or at least not follow the

rules of the global organization that governs trade. of course, it is getting a lot of attention on twitter because it is -- it's acronym is the f.a.r.t., united states fair and reciprocal tariff act. wilbur ross told us it is premature. back to you. >> thank you, sarah, very much. david ignatius, what does your gut -- go for it. >> yeah. i think the financial markets are telling us that people with money at risk are nervous about the accelerating risk of a real trade war. we to have additional tariffs coming in to force at the end of this week. sarah in the last report made reference to a statement by the chamber of commerce president, tom donahue, as mainstream, traditional, a business republican as you can find. he warned last thursday that

these tariff/counter-tariff measures could have a destructive effect on the u.s. economy, could be damaging for economic growth and jobs. that came at the same time as a statement from general motors, a huge american auto company, that it will be hurt if the tariffs continue and expand, go into the auto sector. you are seeing more and more businesspeople warning that this trade war is not easy, as president trump likes to say, is not easy to win a trade war. it is going to have real consequences, and we are beginning to see the signs of that in the financial markets. >> all right. coming up on "morning joe", our next guest asks and answers the questions why families can't afford america. that is next on "morning joe."

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i do. check out the new united explorer card. saving on this! saving on this! saving in here. rewarded! learn more at theexplorercard.com joining us now, co-founder of the economic hardship reporting, alisa quart. she's the author of the new book "squeezed," why families can't afford america. the problem of not being able to afford to live in america can't be cured by self-help mantras. it can't be mended simply by creating a resume that utilizes several colors of printer ink or a regiment of cleansing green juices. the problem is systemic, being squeezed involves one's finances, one's social status and one's self-image.

the middle class is endangered on all sides. and the promised rewards of belonging toing ining to it ha it. what an important book. thank you for being on. >> thank you, mika. >> i guess define what the middle class looks like now. >> so the middle class was once a very stable category. it's the biggest difference. >> do you think that is part of the comment of understanding the middle class when politicians want to appeal to the middle east or when people want to describe themselves as middle class? i agree with you, it once was incredibly stable. it was a lot of things. but it was stable. and for that it had a real american dream appeal to it. now, what does it look like? >> now it looks like people who maybe earning $34,000, you know -- >> on the edge? >> on the edge, who are professors. it's lawyers who are out of work. it's -- >> when did that change?

>> well, it's been happening since 1979. but i'd say since the recession in 2008 some of this has really taken a downward turn. >> jeremy. >> i wonder what role higher education plays in all of this. because you see students getting degrees of questionable value, graduating tens of thousands of dollars in debt. there's been more of a push for vocational education, trade schools. nonfour-year degree-type programs. has that changed the composition of the middle class and maybe pushed some people out of the lower middle class? >> i believe so, because there's been a doubling. since the cost of public education and the college level since 1996, you know, adjusted for inflation. if we're looking at fancy private college, god knows. >> it's impossible. >> yes. >> noah, isn't this the opening for a trump-like figure? having said that, isn't the issue of broken promises what has actually led to this -- is

it fair to say -- decline -- >> yes. >> -- over the course of decades? >> it's possible you can get a figure in there who will say decrease the cost of college, of health care. to do that, they'd have to attack the chief sources of those cost increases which are generally from both parts, health care and college. administrative costs. top-down bloating. there is a way to address that, but i'm not sure it's fit for a populist candidate. like i kind of wanted to ask, because you say, you know, the problems here are systemic, that they're almost all encompassing. you have to do with every aspect of the economy and it's not your fault is the mantra, which suggests or connotes, rather, that it's beyond your power to address. agency has nothing to do with it. is there a recipe for fatalism here? is this something that voters could say i'm just going to check out? >> i do have some solutions that individuals can do for themselves. i spoke to people who live in kind of co-housing setups where

many families would live in the same home. they weren't together romantically, they weren't biologically relate. there's other things people can do for themselves. for me one of the crucial things is for people to stop blaming themselves. because i think there's a lot of anger at ones self that has welled up. that it's not helpful for people when they walk around like that. >> dave ignatius, i'd love your take on the implications of this sense of being on the edge that has sort of become part of the mainstream middle class. and then if you have a question for alisa. david. >> yes. so those numbers show a country that's really moving fast. my answer for alliisa is what - as we think about midterm elections ahead, the political turmoil the country is in, how do you read those numbers

against our politics? >> you're saying the improved numbers? >> yes. >> i think we have to look at long-term and short-term improvement. potentially right now we have some short-term improvement, although i'm questionable about wages. in the long term, we're still going to have all these same problems. we have only 14% family leave. we have paid family leave. we have very little pregnancy leave and very few safeguards against pregnancy discrimination. and we have very limited subsidized day care. for many of the families i spoke to, these were the major problems. they were spending 30% of their -- at least 30% of their income on day care. >> so in our closing, just in a nutshell, can you describe what a middle class family looked like? is 30 years ago far enough? or 40 years, a house and a yard -- >> yes. when i was growing up, my parents were college teachers. we had summer vacations.

they could pay for my college outright. they -- i had skating lessons. and now that -- >> you did better. >> and i did better than they did. and now we have people who are unable to pay for basic things like health care and food and housing. >> and so with that in mind, we close the show today with final thoughts. i'll start with david ignatius. >> this is a day when we're thinking about the turmoil in our foreign policy. we're thinking about president trump's summit meeting ahead with vladimir putin. we're wondering what exactly we bought in the north korea handshake deal. and i think as we head towards the fourth of july, we want to be thinking about our country and its security. those are the questions we want to put to president trump as he thinks about going to the nato summit, thinks about meeting with president trump, with putin. >> i think how anxious the news

cycle around the supreme court felt. demonstrates the extent to which things move so fast. >> don't lose track of the truth. jeremy, ten seconds or less. >> that's right because what's going to happen is things are going to change really fast. the supreme court nomination fight will take over the news cycle. >> the book is "squeezed." thank you very much. before we go, i will just say michael cohen, bold move. stay tuned, everybody. that does it for us this morning. chris jansing picks up the coverage. >> mika, thank you so much. i'm chris jansing in for stephanie ruhle. this morning, huddled masses. more than 2,000 kids still separated from their families, as tens of thousands take to the streets demanding an end to the zero tolerance policy. and this morning, the escalating fight over the future of the agency in charge of deportation. >> i think that mission of i.c.e. is no longer being accomplished. unfortunately, i.c.e. is becoming a deportation force. >> you get rid o