lost in sseinfeld's "the opposite" episode saying -- >> but it's president trump's own intelligence agencies who have determined that north korea has increased nuclear production at secret sites. that reporting is based on interviews with more than a dozen u.s. officials. but president trump didn't stop his attack on american intelligence agencies there. this morning, he also carved out time to attack the nsa, led by admiral mike rogers tweeting -- >> if you're keeping track at home, that's two more new breaks

between the president and his own intelligence agencies. he may find himself at odds with the bipartisan assessment of the senate intel committee. in the last hour, they released their report on the intelligence community assessment that russia interfered in the 2016 election in order to help trump and hurt clinton. did you get that? they agreed that the intelligence community assessment to help trump and hurt clinton is true, writing the conclusions of the assessment are sound. here to discuss the day's surreal developments, some of our favorite reporters and friends. joining me now is hans nichols, and with us at the table, jason johnson, politics editor, and jonathan capehart. most msnbc contributors.

i have to start with you, malcolm. let me read you this list. who says russia meddled to help trump? the cia, fbi, dni, senate republicans, senate democrats, house democrats and trey gowdy, who doubts that russia meddled to help trump? vladamir putin, donald trump, and devin nunez. did i miss anybody? >> you can throw in there everybody that voted for trump, because whatever he says goes. and whatever vladamir putin says goes for president trump. you know, this is very disturbing, especially that comment about nsa a little bit earlier. first off, 6 million phone calls and e-mails is about ten seconds of collection of nsa. so that's not very significant. but it just goes to show, they are declaring war on anything credible in america. and it will undermine us. it will damage our national security. and mark my words at some point, it will kill someone.

>> that's a chilling thought. matt miller, i feel like we started having this conversation before president trump was sworn in. preinauguration, he was at war with the intelligence community over the same issues. and i know general hayden and people who have worked for democrats and republicans have called this an all-out assault on the truth, an assault on evidence-based sciences, on journalism, on intelligence collection, on law enforcement, on the rule of law. where do you put today's audacious tweets? we shouldn't become numb to them in any other climate, the things the president tweeted today would be two scandals in and of themselves. >> that's right. to understand the president's attack on the intelligence report, you have to look at his tweets on law enforcement, on anyone that can be an independent arbiter of the truth, because he has to create

this alternative reality for what he says is true and what everyone else says is not, even if it's backed up by evidence. and so when you see the president attack like this, first you have this bizarre thing where his attack on the nsa, it's like someone who is the president of the united states, has access to the most sensitive intelligence information in the country. ultimately, you have the effect of his attacks, which are, number one, overseas. you'll see our adversaries use what the president says against us overseas. vladamir putin's interference with elections doesn't just happen here, it happens in europe. when you see trump cast doubt on it, you will see vladamir putin turn around and use that to his advantage all across the world. second at home, there is going to come a time when the president is going to need the assessments of the intelligence community. he's done so much to sow

distrust, and they're not going to believe what the intelligence community says. >> i haven't seen an official response to this brand new report from the senate intel committee, but the president has cherry picked in the past what he likes and doesn't like from the intelligence committees and always comes down on the side -- on the other side of the capitol, the house intel committee where his good buddies are running rough shod over the justice department and fbi. any sense of how they might respond or whether they'll respond to this at all? >> no indication of that yet, nicolle. the president is generally predisposed to these reports that tend to exonerate them and the's dismissive of the ones that call into question his statements and his core belief that this is one giant hoax. and yet, as you said in your intro, we have another xhaexamp of an independent, bipartisan committee saying that russia was behind and meddled in the elections. we just saw ambassador bolton in

moscow, he said he raised this issue with putin and they seem to be inclined to believe vladamir putin's denials. we'll see how this plays out at this nato summit, where the topic of russia will be front and center, and when president trump meets with vladamir putin after the nato summit. i think it's going to make it very awkward for president trump to perhaps put pressure on him to raise it yet again with vladamir putin. >> i want to ask you, hans, because you're doing double duty today, what do you think secretary mattis thinks when he hears that president trump believes that if not for donald trump, we would be at war with north korea, do you think that's the pentagon's assessment of the relationship? >> yeah, i think especially on north korea, mattis has been very reluctant to involve himself. i think mattis' goal is just stay out of the line of fire. keep the pressure on to let the

diplomats do the work. where president trump complicates things for mattis is on nato. when trump brow beats nato officials saying you need to spend more, spend more, mattis will then be having conversations saying can you help us in afghanistan, stand up a training mission in iraq. when you look at the argument president trump is making, it's not controversial that nato members need to spend more. the issue really is, why they need to spend more. and the argument from mattis is always, you need to spend more because you don't know what russia is up to. a great power competition. you hear that all the time inside the pentagon. nato countries need to spend more because of the threat from russia. that's not exactly what we hear from president donald trump. nicolle? >> and jason, hans brought us there. "the new york times" reporting trump warns nato allies to spend

more on defense or else. president trump has written letters to germany, belgium, norway and canada, taking them to task for spending too little on their own defense and warning the united states is losing patience with their failure to meet security obligations. as hans said, there's nothing wrong with encouraging them to spend more. but diplomacy is usually about talking to your friends in private and harassing your adversaries in public. president trump has it inverted. he harasses our friends in public and cozies up to our adversaries privately without -- like when he met with kim jong-un, without a staffer. he's met with vladamir putin without an american translator. so he seems to have this, again, sticking with the opposite frame, he seems to have this backward. >> it's that old analogy of keep it in the locker room. this is why this is significant.

we're about to go into a nato conference where no one is going to want to talk to him. do any of our nato allies believe that president trump suspect going to take any secret information they share and run to his best friend putin a week and a half later? that's what we're facing here. the president doesn't just have an attack on our intelligence community, but an attack on american intelligence. he wants to create this fahrenheit 451 news speak. that making it dangerous for any allies that share information with him, because he's more interesting in appeasing russia and north korea than he is in keeping the united states and our allies safe. >> it struck me when i saw this report released in the last hour from the senate intel committee, chaired by republican richard burr and by senator mark warner, that burr fought to release it, hoping the president would be on a golf course somewhere and no one at fox would have time to attack them for coming down as

fuddy duddies and not taking the hannity line on russian meddling. >> or trying to hide completely in plain sight, hoping fox news doesn't do anything with it at all. look, what we're watching here, and just everything that we've been talking about, is the president of the united states, dismantling america at home, while at the same time dismantling the western alliance that the united states spent 70 years putting together and maintaining. this nato summit, to jump off what jason was talking about, is extremely dangerous. the fact that the president of the united states is basically it seems willing to give russia just a pass on annexing crimea, if you are the baltic states, if you're poland, if that happens in helsinki, if there are any signs that the president of the united states is just going to let vladamir putin stay there, then those countries should be

scared to death, because then the united states' treaty obligations under nato to come to the defense of the nato alliance is now legitimately -- would then legitimately be thrown into question. even a year ago, my saying this would be oh, you're being hyperbolic, you're just being super crazy. we're a couple of weeks away finding out whether or not that is indeed the reality. >> malcolm, first of all, if you accept the thesis there, russia is doing pretty well. i guess i've asked this question this week, but what is left on vladamir putin's honeydew list that trump hasn't done? that's the better question. we're all too timid. we're afraid of being accused of hyp hyperbole, but what hasn't trump done that vladamir putin would have wanted him to do? >> the only thing left to do is lift sanctions against russia,

and just give carte blanche to believe that crimea -- >> he tried. that's not even really -- just to take up in president trump's defense, which i don't think has ever happened in this hour, he tried, and democrats and republicans in the u.s. senate stopped him. but we know he wanted to. >> i think he will arbitrarily, straight across the board, in defiance of law, at the end of the putin-trump summit, will declare russia good boys and say we need to hift tlift the sanct. going after nato is amazing. nato is not just paying with nar m -- their money, they are paying in blood defending with the united states in afghanistan. donald trump doesn't get that. in his mind, russia is his base, a critical part of his base, and he's going to pay them off one way or the other. >> matt miller, let me ask you what robert mueller thinks about

the crafting of such pro putin foreign policy, do you think he would want to talk to the men and women who help shape u.s. foreign policy in a way that's favorable to vladamir putin? do you think that's a line in the investigation at all? we know some of his national security officials have been into meet with mueller's team. but do you think that is something they want to understand, how foreign policy is crafted? how something like, i'm glad i fired comey, how a u.s. president says that to two top u.s. russian officials, is that of interest to robert muleer? >> it's a difficult call. he is the president of the united states and he has the authority and responsibility to conduct u.s. foreign policy. but if you go back to the central question bob mueller is looking at is whether the president was involved in the russian attempts s ts to inter with the election and whether he

promised them something in exchange. so we do know there are parts of that, that mueller is looking at. if you go back during the campaign, the successful effort by paul manafort and others on the trump campaign to change the republican platform. obviously, the meeting in the oval office where trump said to the russian ambassador that he was firing comey had taken pressure off of him, which would make it to conduct foreign policy favorable to russia, that goes to his motivationis, and whether he entered into corrupt arrangements during the campaign. so there are portions that stray outside what is in his mandate. but when it goes to that core question of whether there is an arrangement, yes, it's something he will be looking at. >> hans, let me ask you if you're picking up anything from either of the buildings that you cover about what seems like a stray dog of a tweet this morning about the nsa. i accept the theory he saw

something on fox news that angered him, but the nsa is a serious and really vital agency in terms of battling terrorism and thwarting plots against the united states of america and tracking people that are already known to be a risk to americans here and abroad. the idea that he just wakes up and attacks his own nsa is stunning. i wonder if anyone said a word about that. i find it harder and harder to get folks to engage about the president's twitter feed at that white house. >> i made calls to the pentagon today and people are reluctant to talk on the phone, in part, because the nsa has the ability to listen to phone calls and there is a culture of clamping down on leaks throughout the administration. so the only thing i would report is i didn't get anyone to talk over the phone about this subject. it did strike me that the president was trying to give himself immunization and we were wondering what might happen

next? one quick thing back on the putin discussion, when president trump sits down with president putin, president putin will be in a position of strength, in part because of the price of oil. when oil is at $75 a barrel, that is in a much different situation when trump started his administration. and the europeans, merkel's government is so crucial on whether or not she's going to stay in power. if her government collapses, you can see the sanctions regime against russia fading away rather quickly, especially with a new government. these back-to-back summits, nato and he will skinglsinki are goi crucial for the coming years. >> hans, thank you for spending time with us. malcolm nance, as well. when we come back, fresh reporting on michael cohen's decision to break with donald trump as he contemplates jail time or flipping on the president. also ahead, the u.s. supreme court is donald trump's latest

backdrop for his selection process. what could go wrong? and how are the candidates stacking up in his mind? and tracking washington's most notorious swamp monster. the latest cabinet secretary to be confronted in a restaurant. find the remote yet? nah. honey look, your old portable cd player. my high school rethainer. oh don't... it's early 90s sitcom star dave coulier... cut...it...out! [laughing] what year is it? as long as stuff gets lost in the couch, you can count on geico saving folks money. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance.

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like a month, tops. oh boy. wi-fi fast enough for the whole family is simple, easy, awesome. in many cultures, young men would stay with their families until their 40's. new details on michael cohen's decision to break his silence on the investigation in his work as a fixer for president trump.

>> and cohen's allies pushing back on specktation that his comments came with an alterior motive. >> joining me now is emily jane fox, she's been in close contact with michael cohen throughout, and paul butler, former federal prosecutor, now george turn law professor. and bill chrrystal joins us. is he now in the clear? does he not believe there's any scenario where he doesn't go to

jail? >> i don't think there's anyone that would give him the advice that you can't be charged or indicted. i don't think that's where his head is. but there is a window that he feels like opened up at this point in time where he is switching lawyers at the end of this week, he's getting rid of a lawyer who was very anti-him doing this kind of interview and speaking on the record. he also feels as though he believes there is a time in the near future that someone close to the president will be coming after him and attacking his credibility and further distancing themselves from michael cohen. so he thought this is a time where i can get ahead of things. and he also, as you read from my story, has been told by a lot of people around him, this is your chance to change the narrative from you being this mobbed up bad guy to someone who can bring this whole thing down if you're willing and able. >> but that's all on the pr said. what are his legal pathways. he seems to be at a fork in the road where he cooperates with

the southern district of new york, turns evidence on anyone else they're interested in investigating, or he goes to jail. >> sure. >> is that accurate? >> yes. so the choice is -- >> he's either going to flip on the president and everyone else he had files and recordings of, or he's going to jail. >> but there's the possibility that prosecutors may not need him to flip. >> go to jail and do the pr. >> exactly. so there's a third option there. so for him, there are two options if the government is willing to cooperate with him. i think that they on the record statements, which are consistent with what i've been hearing off the record for months and months and months, it seems like he's leaning in one direction. >> flipping on the president. it was underscored by fox news, going very thegtive negative on. i heard you say this on rachel maddow, two of the most

interesting things were on the advice of counsel, cohen refused to discuss any further the trump tower meeting, and there was one other, the payment, whether the president himself directed him to make that payment to stormy daniels or promised to reimburse him. we learned of a system that had been operationalized from rudy giuliani who said on fox news that the money was funneled from the president to cohen to other women. on the advice of counsel, cohen didn't want to go that far. >> it's part of his marketing strategy, probably to mueller, i've got some really good information. remember, cohen is the fixer, he's the payer of hush money. but he's also the intermediary between trump and the russian oligarchs. he's got information on the obstruction part of the investigation and also on the part of the collusion. the other really weird thing about cohen is he's got all of this money coming in, but he's

not acting like a rich dude. and, again, he's making money off of president trump's name. so a big question mueller is asking, does trump seem like the kind of dude who would let somebody make a whole lot of money off of his name and not want a slice of that? probably not. >> that's a good point. bill crystal, "the washington post" reports -- >> i remember being on the air that day around that time that news broke of this raid, and the president was heading into a meeting with his national security team to talk about north korea, called it an attack on the country, the raid on michael cohen was described as an attack on the country. i found that chilling, that this president sees no separation between his personal lawyer and fixer, and the country he now leads. but talk about the significance of michael cohen, and him sort of reaching this fork in the

road legally and with the prosecutors in the southern district of new york, what that might mean for the president. >> it sure looks like michael cohen is going to make a proficient tore the prosecutors, and i assume he'll want to accept that. i was very struck by his refusal to answer on the advice of counsel the trump tower question, which suggests that maybe there's something questionabquestion ab -- questionable about president trump's denying his knowledge of that. to me, the most striking thing of that, the president's reaction then, and what about now? what about this week? not a word from the president and not a word from rudy giuliani, not a word from the president's official defenders. i think they're very worried. they are now being intelligence

in the sense they're being cautious about saying anything. i think the silence speaks volumes. he's tweeting about the nsa, harley davidson. he's flailing around, but he's not tweeting around about the investigation or about michael cohen. >> he's tweeting about sean spicer's book and this and that, but not a word as this story comes up, and we know he never stops watching tv. >> so rudy giuliani is running scared. again, cohen, he's pushing back, even on the raid. so he told george step n stephanopoulos, actually, the fbi was pretty nice when they raided my home. he said, this is about family and country. and he seemed to put that in opposition to trump. >> do you get the sense that, you know, you said something a couple minutes ago that he may not be of value to prosecutors. is that a real worry that he has? is he really trying to market himself as someone who has

information that you be helpful to the collusion case, who has things on the hush money payments, is he really trying to make clear that he's got the goods on donald trump? >> i don't think that's a worry of his, it's just something i've been thinking about. if robert mueller decides he can't indict a sitting president, why does he need michael cohen to flip? i don't think there's any way -- this is what he said on the record, and not make the argument that he was trying to say that he knows things of value to the mueller investigation. >> and they're available for the right arrangement. >> it seems like that was the point he was trying to make. but my own thoughts, if they're not going to indict the president -- >> mueller may want to name the president as an unindicted co-conspirator, and report to congress about the president's

activities in 2016 or in 2017 and '18 when he seems to have communicated with cohen in a nonprivileged way. i thought this from the beginning about cohen, you cannot underestimate -- or overestimate the importance of michael cohen. nearly almost know one would know more than what trump did and said and be able to confirm all kinds of things that would be questionable. i think cohen will bes -- he's john dean. he's awfully important to this case. >> because this is not -- this is seedier than john dean territory, he literally know where is the bodies would be buried. >> and he's worked with president trump for a long time, you know, new york real estate, all that, it's down and dirty business. again, trump is very anxious

to -- sometimes there are few options as well. even if he pardons cohen, he could be forced to testify, because then he doesn't have a fifth amendment privilege. >> and we were talking about this in the green room. sk cohen could then try to refuse to testify, held in contempt and still goes to jail. so he's in a very clear spot. when we come back, as the president contemplates his pick for the supreme court, it will surprise no one watching whether the candidate looks the part. not cool. freezing away fat cells with coolsculpting? now that's cool! coolsculpting safely freezes and removes fat cells with little or no downtime. and no surgery. results and patient experience may vary.

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is president trump casting the next season of "the apprentice" or choosing a judicial nominee for the supreme court? by the looks of the last few days it's hard to tell.

he's treating his nomination to fill justice kennedy's seat by teasing the get to know interviews. he's met with four judges, and today, the white house confirmed that senator mike lee of utah spoke with the president on the phone about the position yesterday. the president plans to announce his pick on monday. joining us from "the washington post," host of washington week robert costa. and matt miller is back with us. robert, you write about this today. take us through your reporting. you've been updating your reporting all day. take us through where things stand. >> a couple things to pay attention to. the former kennedy clerks, they are certainly high on the list, along with judge barrett from indiana, who is very popular with social conservatives. but it's the debate over cavanaugh that i'm paying attention to in my reporting.

some conservatives are scrutinizing his rulings on health care and abortion, wondering if he's conservative much. cavanaugh is liked by white house counsel don mcgann. where cavanaugh goes in this process is the important thing to watch. >> brett cavanaugh is a former white house colleague of mine. he's one of the most intelligent people i've worked with and he's incredibly decent. i don't know if that counts for or against you with this president. i think that today there was an effort by white house officials to make sure -- that might hurt his chances. >> that's the important point, because the belief we've been told that the president is quite aware that the bush connection that he served in george w. bush's white house. the president is a political animal as much as he's make a

legal and judicial decision here. he knows his base is paying attention and will rally to whomever he selects. but he doesn't want to be seen as too much of an insider. he did pick neil gorsuch for the supreme court last year. cavanaugh is liked by many republicans in washington. at this point, cavanaugh is a front-runner. the president is hearing out the criticisms. it doesn't mean he's tilting in a certain direction. >> let me ask you to pull back the lens a little bit and read you something from "the new york times" about whoever he picks, what they might face in terms of their role on the court. this -- people under the cloud of investigation do not get to pick the judges over their cases.

>> do you agree with that? and do you think there's any chance that this can be slowed down? it already feels like a runaway train? >> i do agree with that argument. no man should be able to pick who prosecutes him or pick who ultimately sits as a judge and jury. there are several questions in this investigation that could make it to the supreme court, whether a president can be subpoenaed or pardon himself. so it is a very real argument, i think. the question is whether it's one that has any saliance to republicans. no democratic senator ultimately

will vote for whomever trump nominates, and they keep their powder dry and keep their leverage for as long as they can to execute what is the second part of that strategy, that is to pick off that one republican vote they need. i think you'll see them making this argument and arguments about roe versus wade and preserving health care. whether any of those can be successful, you know, i think that depends on how the hearing goes and whether something disqualifying comes out about one of these candidates. that's why you try to keep every democrat committed for as long as you can, in case something happens you're in a position to block the nominee. >> let me ask you real quick, i want to get your thoughts, are you aware of anyone in the white house counsel's office scrubbing all of the potential candidates for this vacancy for their opinions about whether or not any -- a president can be indicted or opinions what a president can be subpoenaed or

things that might pertain to the mueller probe? >> no. and because the process based on my reporting has been quite contained, it's don mcghan and the president meeting. he has been with the president since the start. he's had his own clashes with the president over the russia investigation, has been interviewed by bob mueller. he's aware of the sensitive nature of that. so they're trying to keep this process at a surface level, knowing the president has been briefed, and others have gone over the candidate's records, provided files to the white house. so this is really about a rapport with president trump, and that's how the white house privately says they would like to keep it to avoid getting in any territory, whether it's roe versus wade or the russia investigation. >> i am sure that robert costa is absolutely right about what they strive for, but i'm also sure that president trump wants

to know whether all the nominees come down on whether or not you can indict a president. and he's going to get to the bottom of this. >> he already knows, because his selection process has been outsourced to the federalist society, which is a very conservative right wing organization of lawyers and law professors who have given him this list of 25. they would not let anybody on this list who was not against roe versus wade, who did not support marriage equality, who was not against affirmative action. so this is an extremely important -- but this is something that president trump actually does really well. this is one presidential authority that he knows how to do. >> hit the pardon button, right? >> this is constitutional. 11 days after his inauguration, this will be two weeks with that

direct ceremonial and a week from yesterday, you know -- >> paul butler is ready for late night, too. >> he knows how to pick the heroes and we know he's not reading anything. he doesn't care what the legal ramifications are. somebody gave him a list and he'll pick the two two or three on the list. that says to me he probably picks a woman. that's probably what he'll do. he'll probably pick barrett, because that's the kind of things the democrats wouldn't be strong enough to go heavy against her. >> you write about her in your reporting today, too. where do you put her, middle of the pack, who is she in sort of your supreme court watch process? >> she's someone who i think is right there with judge cavanaugh, probably i would say top two or three pick.

but i did hear that judge kesledge had a good meeting with president trump on monday. so he's in the mix in the center. mitch mcconnell, don't discount his favorite, judge thapar, who is a potential nominee. if judge barrett is not picked now, she could be put on the court should judge bader ginsburg step down. >> you just made liberals in our audience reach for the liquor cabinet. when we come back, reports of lavish spending and conflicts of interests. two of scott pruitt's top aides have spoken to officials. (vo) we came here for the friends.

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so you can add epa administrator scott pruitt to the list of trump officials to be confronted in a restaurant. but what's worse for pruitt, "the washington post" revealed two of his top aides provided fresh details to congressional investigators in recent days about some of his most controversial spending and management decisions. here's the second paragraph of the story.

>> for nearly anyone else, and nearly any other time, this would be career threatening. but for scott pruitt, it's another day at the epa. this isn't his first time at the rodeo or his second or third. over the last few months, he's faced an onslaught of negative press over actions he's taken during his political career, from spending taxpayer dollars on fountain pens, wanting a soundproof phone booth and something called tactical pants, to having a top aide get a chick-fil-a franchise for his mouth. people are shouting, how does this man still have a job working for a press and media obsessed president? bill crystal is back with us. i'm going to let you take the first stab at that, how is he still there? >> i don't know. it's not as if they can't get someone else in there with conservative views how the epa

should regulate. there are plenty of people who have pruitt's views without the baggage. >> he could pick someone at a rally that would agree with that and not have this much baggage. >> yeah. it shows in a way once trump decides to be stubborn, for all the media pressure, even some congressional pressure, if you control both houses of congress and if you don't have serious oversight from either house, and the democrats a s have just don miserable job of causing trouble, cauyou hear almost nothing. have senior democrats in the house or senate been affected in calling this and making this more of a fuss about this? trump is helped a lot about the incompetence of the democrats. >> even republicans have become

critics. this is the former acting director for bush and obama, who says that pruitt is the gift that keeps on giving in terms of how senior officials in this administration abuse power and position. >> it's like a ticker tape parade of scandals. >> the president gets mad about something buried on the inside of "the new york times." >> the story is the one from vox, where he told two employees to pay for his hotel and said i'll get you back and didn't pay for it. he's like horrible bosses, washington edition. it's not just you can find

someone else to do this position, but scott pruitt is going to start showing up in campaign ads and be used against republicans this fall. there is no value he brings to this administration, that is outweighed by the scandals that he's causing. all he does is damage and bring down anything else that the republicans are trying to do. cy factor. i'm sorry, there's nothing normal -- if you fly out of lg an, they've got those little phones, i always see them, like, someone should just buy him one of these. like, a lack of self-sufficiency. wanting the cream. that's super weird. there is a weird factor. it's the bad headlines weren't enough. the idea you can pick any man or woman or child out of any trump rally and they could do the sail job without that bad press. there's a weirdo factor. >> i'm not looking for president trump to fire him and i'm not looking for democrats to say anything about him because why. let him just be crushed by the weight of his own scandal. turn him into campaign ads so they can show the culture of

corruption that is the trump administration and you just asked a moment ago what are tactical pants. i did a google, went to tactical gear, you're going to love this description. tactical pants guide at a glance. tactical pants a peer to s app simple cargo but one strategic placement of tailored pockets for the real-action figure. >> let me ask you -- >> total weirdo. >> ethical lapses become legal concerns? >> maybe the check just like muler is doing some of the checking that congressional republicans should be doing under the president, a prosecutor can check pruitt and so it's against the law to self-deal. you can't use your government job to try to get people -- >> why isn't he looking into him? >> the next step would be a

referral to a criminal prosecution. but you worked in the district, you worked for the federal government, so you know that any regular gs eight or nine would have been fired fast -- >> richard painter was my ethics officer. a reporter couldn't buy me a soda. i heard you trying to get back in. >> i think honestly people are kidding themselves if they think scott pruitt is going to be in a lot of ads. no one's going to advise the candidate to put up an ad about an epa administrator no one's heard of. the weekly standard calls for pruitt to resign or be fired. so i'm appalled by pruitt's behavior. but the system doesn't correct itself. even if you're in the minority, you can threaten to hold up a prop p appropriations. different than us sitting around, boy, can you believe this headline? i'm embarrassed that republicans have done so little. honestly interest there are 49 democrats in the senate.

couldn't a call of them make this their theme and hammer away on it? they really have been so passive on this. >> the political argument seems to be the only thing that holds any water with this white house. there's a political case to be made that pruitt is so against brand. i mean, he's against the trump brand in every way. he's the swampyist guy they've got. donald trump likes rich guys like gary cohn. always trying to scam everything. he's got his aides putting hotel rooms on their personal credit card. i don't even know if that's legal. he's so against everything that donald trump ran on. won't say believed in because who knows what he believes in. he's certainly against the trump political brand. do you think that at any point will bring -- you know, make his job less secure? >> it's possible. trump does turn on people. eventually gets rid of them. it would be kind of amazing if john kelly goes the next month.

pruitt's hanging in there. look, it's pretty appalling. on the other hand, when donald trump is president of the united states, and look at what he does and gets away with. so even i feel silly sitting here being all indignant about the epa administrator when trump has done things that are much worse. >> yes, you're right. h.r. mcmaster couldn't stay but pruitt can. we have to fit in our last break. it's getting in the way of our camping trips. but with new sizes, depend fit-flex is made for me. introducing more sizes for better comfort. new depend fit-flex underwear is guaranteed to be your best fit. there's nothing more important than your health. so if you're on medicare or will be soon, you may want more than parts a and b here's why. medicare only covers about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. you might want to consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan,

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that's a picture of deputy

attorney general rod rosenstein leaving the white house about an hour ago. looks like he's smiling. he's had a surreal couple of weeks. >> he's kind of smiling himself these days. >> haven't heard that in so long. >> he put it out. he got played by president trump with the comey memo and trump's leaning on him to do this, do that. he's like no more. when he went off at that congressional hearing, again, i've known the guy for 25 years, i've never seen him that mad. >> at the hearing? >> when he got into it with the congressman. all i'm trying to do is stand up for the integrity of the justice department. >> he knows everything bob mueller knows. i would smile like that too if i were -- you may have gowdy and whoever -- jordan and desanleti but i got bob mueller. >> the president is kind of boxed in because the republicans

have said that's a line you do not cross. you cannot fire rosenstein. >> what do you think? >> i don't think he will. i think there's been enough talk about it. i think the president's focus now is trying to get a supreme court justice to say it's okay to pardon himself. that would make all of this unnecessary. he can let all of this go through, i'm pardoning myself and everybody gets off scott free. >> bill kristal, last word? >> i get nervous because i don't put it beyond trump to fire him. >> agree? >> 100%. >> you can keep going. >> you said you were going to give bill last word. >> all of these possibilities -- >> 100% agree. >> all these possibilities that we are talking about are within the realm of the possible. anything -- any prediction about donald trump can be 100% true or 100% false. you just -- as he would say, we'll just have to wait and see. >> the republicans won't allow that. i think if trump tries to -- >> are we sure about that? >> we don't know anymore. >> i don't trust any of the

republicans. i just don't think it's necessary. i don't think he's going to do anything. look, he also said, hey, what have you got to lose? he doesn't have anything to gain right now because the pressure hasn't quite got to him. >> i'm with the three people who don't want to go on vacation. my thanks to our panel. thank you so much. that does it for our hour of nicolle wallace. "mtp daily" begins with chris jansing. >> i guess we don't want to go on vacation. nicolle, thank you so much. if it's tuesday, heated rhetoric and the heated search in the heated political environment. tonight, meet the picks. >> has got a great list and we're excited about who -- >> what the president's supreme court short list tells us about the long-term political fallout ahead. plus, war and peace. the president slams nato allies while once again boasting his