does he govern like a baby, and when he believes people think he is a baby, does he respond like a baby? that's our show. "hardball" with chris matthews is up next. >> pruitt out. let's play "hardball." >> good evening, i am steve kornacki in for chris matthews. scott pruitt is out of a job. faced with an avalanche of scandal. president trump broke the news this afternoon with a tweet. i have accepted the resignation of scott pruitt within the agency, scott has done an outstanding job and i will always be thankful for this.

deputy andrew wheeler will assume duties. the president tweeting that out just a short while ago. pruitt has been a subject of 16 investigations. the spending on travel, questionable use on personal detail. the room that he rented from a wife of a lob wi at $50 a night. for months, president trump had stood by his epa administrator. just last month trump was praising his work. >> scott pruitt is doing a great

job within the walls of the epa. i am not saying that he is blameless, but we'll see what happens. >> in his resignation later he says, it is extremely difficult for me to cease serving you in this role first because i count it as a blessing to be serving you in any capacity, but also because of the transformative work that is occurring. >> with us our panel. >> heidi, let me ask you, we had the president there with what he said a couple of weeks ago, we had pruitt at the white house last night, what changed in

trump's thinking and when did it change? >> he said there was no final straw. but as an observer, major stories that broke recently including pruitt abusing his staff. putting charges on his credit card and not reimbursing him for them. what was playing all over the holiday, was the mother confronting him at the diner. a few hours ago, we found out from the ranking member of the oversight meeting, there is more information about him coming out about scrubbing his calendars. and there was still more revelations to come. >> it still raises the question, there had had been so much that was raised out there, what is the definition of too much be? >> the first one of these big

cabinet people to come down, tom price, he had gone down so swiftly. way overspending and he was gone. this has been going on for months and months, so many more allegations that were leveled at tom price. president trump spoke about this resignation on air force one tonight and basically said great guy, love the guy, couldn't take it anymore. things were tough on him. no apology whatsoever in his letter, his letter to the president. pruitt in many ways was like president trump. he was sort of that let's see if i can push it as far as i can, and get away with things. this grifting. things that he was doing was hard to justify.

>> senator from oklahoma last month said it could be time for the epa administrator to leave his job. every day something new comes up. inhofe later backed off that. ingraham herself weighing in, pruitt is the swamp, drain it. we see controversies all the time with this president, what we doesn't see all the time, is somebody like laura ingraham saying something has to be done here. >> he was going to quote-unquote drain the swamp. make washington run more

efficiently. and yet you have an alligator in your own administration that thrives in this quote-unquote swamp. other conservatives have publicly called for the president to remove scott pruitt. you cannot articulate this message and say the left has done xy and z wrong. and stood for law and stood for order and yet you have a president who has disregarded all of those foundational privileges of what it once meant to be a conservative in this country, saying it don't matter. folks have said we have had enough. >> what does that look like on the republican side, joanie ernst in iowa. i am seeing conservatives right

now getting immediate reaction, saying he got a raw deal. what is the divide on the republican side? how many thought he should go and how many shouldn't? >> many are wondering is this a temporary moment or a permanent moment. you do have so many leaders who are now going to the activist realm of the party. nobody wants to get out there too soon and anger that base if you will who we know are loyal it the president. >> i'm curious how you read the politics of this one. is this the president looking at growing concerns with his base? is it the president who received the wider political threat? what do you think it is coming from? >> i think the president has realized this is too much. we know for a fact that donald trump doesn't like anyone to get

more negative coverage than himself. if you can point tangible things, the other issues have overshadowed those things. lingering with his white house right now, making the decision it is time for him to go. i can choose somebody else who can do the same thing. >> does this solve a political problem for the president that is outside of his party, or the president reacting to his party. >> it gets rid of a big political head ache not just as for the president, who has publicly been behind scott pruitt. but if it were up to white house officials up from chief of staff to everyone down. scott pruitt would have been ousted yesterday if not weeks

and weeks beforehand. every time a negative story bubbled up until recently, there are been people whisper in donald trump's ear, that he had to stay. obviously, that only took pruitt so far, but took him a long way. what ultimately brought scott pruitt down was among other factors, him waging war on his own staff. many, some of whom have come out publicly to speak out and blow the whistle against him if he has not engineered this campaign of smearing, there is a chance of this torrent of leaks and testimony wouldn't have come out so aggressively towards him. >> what is going to happen right now? he gets those two words here, senate confirmed for the replacement, andrew wheeler. the president pointing out he has been confirmed by the

senate. 51-49 senate department. where the policies have been contentious as we are here. are we looking at the permanent epa administrator or? >> depends on how much pressure he comes under from his president. wheeler is quoted that he did not want the job, never wanted the job. but a lot of insiders thinking he is more effective than pruitt was because he is low key and has the same agenda. i think this is a steving moment as well -- teaching moment as well in terms of what it means to drain the swamp. draining the swamp was never about corruption, it was about draining the agencies. if you look at donald trump's

comments, he thought pruitt was doing an excellent job. he had rolled back wo two regulations. holding a lot of new regulations at bay and even folks like christine todd whitman had said when pruitt came in, that was going to be a danger. now you see a lobbyist like pruitt and now wheeler coming in to push through this agenda. pushing out civil servants, that is going to continue. that is not why scott pruitt was fired. >> quickly beth, on that point, democrats for policy reasons did not like the idea for pruitt here. do you see a continuation of these policies. >> of course. and that is why it is strange that pruitt was able to hang on

as long as he could. look at this, this is our list of all the people in trump's orbit who have disappeared since he became president. long list compiled by our white house unit. >> departures from the administration. >> from the administration. cabinet officials to staff. this is an administration that bleeds people. they just go. remarkable that he hung on as long as he did. joins a long list of people who have joined in and since been departed. >> all right. thank you all for being with us. also coming un, set your dvrs because the president says he is planning to announce his supreme court pick on monday at 9:00 p.m. probably not coincidentlily there. sources say we should expect

someone straight out of central casting. bob mueller faces a difficult addition. launches blistering attacks on everybody from german chancellor angela merkel to senator warren. this is "hardball" where the action is. 10 miles on every dollar they spend at thousands of hotels. all you have to do is pay with this... at hotels.com/venture. 10 miles per dollar? that is incredible. brrrrr. i have the chills. because you're so excited? because ice is cold. and because of all those miles. obviously. what's in your wallet? i'm not sure. what's in your wallet?

scott pruitt may be out, but president trump made a senior appointment today. tapping bill schein. former copresident of fox news and fox business. schein will be the first formal head of communications at the

white house since hope hicks left that job back in march. be right back. what's a gig of data?

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welcome back to "hardball" and then there were three. narrowing his list to three finalists. president tease the big announcement at the rally going on in montana. >> as you know there is now a vacancy on the supreme court. if you tune in monday at 9:00, you are going to be extremely happy with the selection. and they are all great. and i want to thank justice kennedy for his lifetime of truly distinguished service. he had confidence in me.

he left because he said you are going to pick somebody great. >> a source close to the white house tells politico the president is looking for someone who picks a central casting image. the president's pick will become a rallying cry for the base in both parties. a amy cohn barrette is being pushed the hardest. adding barrett. quote if roe v. wade is ever overturned it would be better if it were not done by only male

justices with every female justice with dissent. >> thanks to both of you for being with us. this is interesting. you are both looking at the same issue and the same potential nominee and coming to completely different conclusions. ramesh, i will start with you. here is a conservative. >> i just think in politics representational claims get made and have a certain amount of legitimacy. about a quarter of the u.s. population is pro-life women. they have never had anyone on the supreme court that represents them. >> well, ruth, let me turn that around on you then, the energy that we have seen directed

towards opposing a potential barret nomination on the left, is that the reason. more palatable for a court to overturn roe with a female justice part of that. >> i don't think so. i think the most direct and real fear, and i don't think that ramesh disagree on this. this is measurably more willing to do the deed than perhaps some of the other leading candidates including judge kavanaugh. it is the choice between very, very conservative and super conservative. i don't think you look at judge

kavanaugh's decision on abortion related things. he might be able to -- which i think if that were your goal in picking a justice and you wanted somebody willing to take the plunge, it would seem to be that you go for judge barret whatever her gender. her gender is a plus in this political matter. and i think it would be great to have a another woman on the supreme court. women span the ideological spectrum too. on this topic of roe, a key vote there, susan collins was asked for what she is looking for in a

candidate with roe v. wade. >> i think it is clear that if a nominee has demonstrated hostility to roe v. wade and has said that they are not going to abide by that long standing precedent, that i won't support that nominee. >> ted cruz and ran paul voiced their concerns about judge kavanaug. cruz warned cavanaugh is unreliable in the past. this is always the interesting part, right before the announcement, every stakeholder trying to get the message out

there. talking about these three finalist, you think barret is the pick that you would like of the three. who is likely to go wobbling from a conservative perspective. which of the three makes you most nervous. >> you can't just. when people say, kavanaugh is unreliable. he seems like he is a little more comfortable with the establishment i don't know that we have a ton of teevidence.

that said, you know, my sense of where they fall on the conservative index, they are bunched up close together. and my guess is that kavanaugh might be a little more moderate. but we are going based on slim pickings here. >> and ruth you made a clear point here, if you think barrett is the one of most conservative, who do you think is the most surprise? >> i don't think of it like that. and by the way, i covered the david sueder confirmation

hearings. and i am confident that none of these is not going to be. i would say of those three, barrett to me is the biggest risk to roe. i have doubts myself as to whether the chief justice is wanting to overrule a case like that explicitly with just five votes. i think it would be a toss up between bret kavanaugh, just to flip a coin. but i don't think they are going to follow the anthony kennedy model with sticking to an undue serious list. justice kennedy surprised all of

us when he not only stuck one due burden test but applied it. >> when this new nominee, whoever it is, if that nominee is confirmed, does it affect anybody else on the court, the chief justice at all in terms of how they go forward. thank you both for joining us. and up next, president trump may call it a witch hunt, but more evidence that the mueller probe might be expanding. and tiny. and this is laura's mobile dog grooming palace. laura can clean up a retriever that rolled in foxtails, but she's not much on "articles of organization." articles of what? so, she turned to legalzoom. they helped me out. she means we helped with her llc, trademark, and a lot of other legal stuff that's a part of running a business. so laura can get back to the dogs. would you sit still? this is laura's mobile dog grooming palace and this is where life meets legal.

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welcome back to "hardball." special counsel's investigation continues into its second year, new signs that the workload may be growing. bloomberg reports mueller taps more prosecutors to help with more legal battles. making more use of the career prosecutors from the offices of u.s. attorneys and from justice department headquarters as well as fbi agents a sign that he may be laying the groundwork for handing off his investigation. 20 people already been indicted. trump lawyer rudy giuliani had

said there would be an answer by july 4. however, cbs news reports that he has no decision to announce. joining me now barbara mcquade. on this issue of more resources. where this investigation is and where it may be going. >> i can think of three possible reasons, one is that he has big charges coming. a second theory and maybe more likely is that he has a lot on his plate. july trial of paul manafort coming up. motions for discovery. and the third reason is there may be parts of this case that are more tangential and might once he closes up shop as

special counsel can be farmed out. so those are three possibilities. >> the issue of trump talking to prosecutors, it is now july 5th, how much time can jewthey strin this out. >> moving the goal post. at some point robert mueller is going to have to make a decision on how much does he want this testimony. does he serve a subpoena on the president or let him move on. voluntary sit down so they can avoid what many people describe as a constitutional crisis. if you were to subpoena president, we might have that constitutional crisis, a strange

scenario ordering a judge to arrest the president. he may at some point say, you know, this is his chance, president trump's chance to tell his side of the story, and if he doesn't want to avail this opportunity, maybe mueller moves on. >> meanwhile, yesterday, more hints that michael cohen may be close to cutting a deal, maybe flipping on the president. cohen who once described himself as a personal attorney to president trump has scrubbed his profile page removing his affiliation with the president. showing his work for the president ended in june. this comes as nbc confirmed a report. lanny davis, saying michael cohen deserves to tell his side of the story subject of course

to the advice of counsel. what do you make of the maneuverings of michael cohen in the past week. this thing about lanny davis right now, some debate about whether the court of public opinion or the court of law that we are talking about, what do you make of what he is doing and does it say anything about his legal situation? >> it seems that michael cohen is working hard to rehabilitate his public image as much as anything. i don't think the southern district of new york finds value on what he says to george ste stephanopoulos. it seems that michael cohen is trying to, as he has said, i won't be the villain in this story and lanny davis is not only a lawyer, but he also runs a pr firm. and michael cohen already has a fine lawyer to handle the legal

matters, and adding lanny davis in this seems like an effort to win over court of opinion. maybe it adds to his value or credibility as a cooperator. but at any rate, he does seem to be signaling a severance with donald trump and that probably bodes well for anyone who is hoping that michael cohen will cooperate against him. >> thank you. >> and up next, more on today's top story, scott pruitt out of the epa. plus, president trump is doubling down on his demands. will congress be forced to act on this latest immigration move. you are watching "hardball." y t. i need an insulin that fits my schedule. ♪ tresiba® ready ♪ (announcer) tresiba® is used to control high blood sugar in adults with diabetes.

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more on our story, embattled epa chief scott pruitt has resigned. he says in his letter is because of the unrelenting attacks on me personally, my family and has been taking a sizeable toll. let's listen to how president trump has responded to questions of pruitt. >> do you support scott pruitt? >> i hope he is going to do great. >> he has done a fantastic job. >> do you have confidence in scott pruitt? >> yes i do. thank you. >> scott pruitt is going a great job within the walls of the epa. setting records outside and being attacked viciously by the

press. >> i am not happy about certain things but he has done a fantastic job over at the epa. >> joined by the "hardball" round table, former spokesperson for the california republican party. and national correspondent for new york magazine. the president is saying i am not saying he is blameless. is that the delay. reflexively, the president saying if there are critics of him and critics of me, i am not giving anything. >> i think this is more the straw that broke the camel's back. the up coming ig report. and i am from oklahoma and i

hate to critique a fell low oklahoman. it is hard for republicans like myself who wanted fiscal responsibility in washington. and then you have this spending on a desk and office furniture. this underscores what the president just said, this nastiness now that existed in washington d.c. and across the country. confronting in restaurants and pushing back on them on the streets. that is a little bit why you saw president trump sticking with pruitt. >> and the number of investigations, over a dozen, i think one of the things i am trying to figure out watching this is, where is the line here.

until today everything that was out there was not enough to prompt a resignation. is it just this ig's report? >> realistically speaking, every tame the president has been pushed it is because the president is saying, this person is distracting from my administration's goals and that is clearly what you saw here. the shear number of investigations in pruitt and these investigations are not going to stop any time soon. sounds like the president is saying it has gotten to the point that it is counter productive. if anything, the line is this is not helping the administration. as we have seen over and over, the president wants the headlines to be about himself. when they are about the swamp,

or his cabinet, he doesn't like that. if there is a line, this is it. >> we see how fast the news mus. is this something that people remember in november? >> to gabe's point, trump doesn't like it whether it is good news or bad news, if somebody in his cabinet is getting more press than him. nothing that taxpayers dislike more when they feel their taxpayer dollars are getting abused. and whether it is the speeding down 14th street, or you know, paying for expensive furniture, he was constantly abusing taxpayer dollars and that is unforgivable to taxpayers and unforgivable to trump. >> something else in the headlines continued public

outrage of children separated from their parents. she was taken into custody after a two and a half hour stand off. the president calling her out. >> you saw that clown yesterday on the statue of liberty? you see the guys that went up there? >> i wouldn't have done it. i would have said let's get some nets and wait until she comes down. just get some nets. >> and earlier today, president trump doubled down on his demand to deport undocumented immigrants without undue process. he wrote when people with or without children -- tell the people out. and they must leave. just as they would if they were standing on your front lawn. jen, we had a poll that we put

yesterday, might have been two days ago, asked a simple question, the president's handling of immigration. do you prove or disprove. it is 39-58. 39 prove and 58 disprove. is this hurting the president? >> i look towards the rasmussen poll which apolopolled. and that 54% of all voters think the parents of these illegal immigrant parents are to blame. and the interesting number out of that rasmussen poll is 56% of independences thought that. that is an alarming number for democrats. sharp left turn calling for the abolishment for i.c.e. it is not my job to interrupt

opponents when they make a mistake. but i would say be very, very careful on this issue. the majority of americans like law and order. >> in terms of the level of outrage. and i have seen polling that says when you get away from the separation issue, it is more complicated. but does the separation issue touch people at an emotional, visceral level? >> this included the separation issue. this was taken the last few days of june when the separation issue was already -- >> we know the separation issue polls terribly. and there is a lot more complexity and public opinion. what i am asking is the emotional impact of seeing children separated from their parents. and reading stories that they are going months after months. does that reach people in the way that this issue does. >> the numbers don't show that

it does and that is why i say if i were to advise democrats i would say be careful. by the number, and that is how i lived and died at the ballot box. the numbers don't represent. >> do you see this in the numbers. >> i think we are looking at different polls. this is the one issue that has gotten, dipped into the evangelical base. this is the one issues that has caused these voters to have major concern with him. they can't live with the facts that parents are being separated from their children, and these are parents that are seeking asylum. the majority of the people we know that are seeking asylum are seeking it from horrific situations. and that is where you see the dip. >> more to come. don't worry, they are not going

anywhere. and you shouldn't either. trump wrapping up the wild rally. we will take a look at it when we come back. ♪ ♪ ♪ raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens ♪ ♪ bright copper kettles and warm woolen mittens ♪ ♪ brown paper packages tied up with strings ♪ ♪ these are a few of my favorite things ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly away. ♪ things ♪

during this evening's rally, president trump railed against our country's cost sharing in nato. and had sharp words for german chancellor angela merkel.

>> and i said you know, angela, i can't guarantee it, but we are protecting you, and it means a lot more to you than protecting us, because i don't know how much protection we get by protecting you. they pay billions of dollars to russia and we are the schmuck that are paying for the whole thing. >> and we'll be right back with the "hardball" round table.

welcome back to "hardball." at his rally in montana, the president launched in a tirade on democrats. >> they know it is the right thing to do, but they think it will help me. not even the republicans, they think it will help trump. >> president again mocks senator elizabeth warren for her claim

about her heritage. >> in the middle of the debate, when she proclaims that she is of indian heritage because her mother says she has high cheekbones, that's her only evidence that her mother said she had high cheekbones, we will take that little kit and we have to do it gently because we are in the m too generation, so we have to be gentle. >> trump also continued to talk about his loss of the popular vote and to advance that baseless claim that fraud is what kept him from winning the votes. >> where people vote four times. >> we are back with our "hardball" round table, a dreeien, jen, and gabe. some of the greatest hits there in montana. >> and of course his opponent's

platform is all about the 2016 election and senator warren and all of these thissother things. of course not. it is true that he won montana by 20 points. but montana has a history of electing democrats including their current governor. it is going to take more than this to win over an elector. but again, greatest hits. >> tester is interesting. he has not been voting with the administration that much. voted against gorsuch last year. you have the supreme court nomination coming up. can there be enough, can trump turn up the political heat? >> to your point, montana does elect democrats but at the same time, it is a largely republican state.

trump won it by 20 points. this is what he does. he goes in and delivers red meat to a base that supports him. but what he is not realizing here, is there is a population in montana that is turned off by this rhetoric. you know, so i don't know if it is going to work, but i don't think that it is actually going to bring in more voters. >> tester is up, high digit polling. >> trump administration is rightly depending on the good news that come republican's way. you have a card carrying socialist win an election here in new york. rvr republicans are seeing the far left movements of the democratic

party, that is going to help. people are paying attention and they don't like it. >> montana is going to be an interesting test. this is a state that obama nearly carried. three points and then 20. >> if we are talking about civility and violence, montana just elected. donald trump jr. is out there campaigning for him. >> he is in political trouble too. stay with us, you are watching "hardball." (burke) at farmers, we've seen almost everything

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and thank you that is "hardball" for now. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. >> tonight, scott pruitt is out. epa administrator resigning in disgrace among 15 ongoing investigations. >> i love. we love. >> what happens now and what tipped scott pruitt's exit. >> we put a bigger swamp creature in there. >> scotus