♪can i get can i get a connection?♪ ♪ohhh can i get a connection? ♪trying find the old me ♪ ♪ welcome to "kasie d.c." i'm kasie hunt. we are live every sunday from washington from 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. eastern. tonight, insider rumors fly as the president prepares to make a primetime announcement about the supreme court. plus, alan dershowitz joins me live. we'll get his top tips for summering on martha's vineyard, oh, and also talk about the president's evolving legal strategy in the mueller probe. plus, some actual good news as divers emerge with some of the boys that stranded that soccer team alive.

we'll get a report on the ground as monsoon rains fall and thai navy seals prepare to go in again. but first we are just over 24 hours away from president trump's primetime announcement of his pick to replace anthony kennedy on the supreme court. by the way, for those of you watching at home, abc says it is prepared to break into the bachelorette to bring you that news. president says he has narrowed his short list to 4. the finalist s were reportedly brett kavanagh, amy and kethledge. mitch mcconnell has been nudging the president in the direction of just two of those candidates. senator mcconnell reportedly told the president that kethledge and hardiman present the fewest obstacles to being confirmed. the times has since reported that the president is expressing fresh interest in hardiman as the process enters its final hours. and here's what trump had to say on his way back from new jersey just this afternoon. >> i'm very close to making a

decision. i've not made it official yet obviously. i've not made it final, but we're very close to making a decision. let's say it's the four people. they're excellent, everyone. you can't go wrong. i'm getting very close to making a final decision. i'll probably be decided tonight or tomorrow sometime by 12:00 and we're going to all be meeting at 9:00, and we have a great country, folks. we have a great country. >> a great country. i'd like to welcome in my panel. chief washington reporter boston herald kimberly at kinz. former press secretary for mike pence, mark lauder and deputy editorial page editor and columnist for the washington post ruth marcus. thank you all for being here on this quasi-holiday sunday night. but of course headed into a busy week here in washington. mark lauder, i want to start with you just because you have been behind the scenes at the white house as the president has made these kinds of decisions. at this point it does seem like he is getting this outside pressure from mcconnell to steer his attention towards it sounds

like two people who have less of a paper trail that might be more likely to be easily confirmed in the senate. is that an argument that you've seen sway this president? >> i'm not sure it sways the president, but -- >> what does sway the president? >> the fact a name has not come out, they've not floated anyone other than these four people i think truly supports the idea that he is still making his decision. hardiman doesn't surprise me as being a last-minute kind of rising to the top because he was -- most people say he was number two when justice gorsuch was selected. he's already been up there in that consideration, so wouldn't surprise me that his name would suddenly start to emerge again. >> kimberly atkins, one of the things that has struck me is brett kavanagh has been a favorite and the concern about him in these final hours seem to be the fact that he used to work for another republican president. >> right, has close ties, very close ties. >> very troubling. >> yes. that's this whole idea that he is establishment, right?

he's close to the bush family, very close to the bush administration. he also played a role in this independent counsel investigation of ken starr which could be problematic for the president if he's pushing against this idea that a special counsel, if he's trying to discredit that. there is a lot of concern inside and outside of the white house. also the paper trail. as you say, the more decisions, the longer someone has been on the bench, the more decisions they have, the more things there are to pick through. with republicans having one slim majority, they don't want to take any chances at all on anyone who would seem to be qualified. you may not like what he rules, but if the qualifications don't seem to be at issue, everything is going to be on the table. that's why mitch mcconnell is frying to take the path of least resistance when it comes to confirmation. >> in his case it's not opinions and other documents, it's all of the documents associated with his tenure in the white house. mitch mcconnell, ruth marcus, is

essentially warning according to reporting democrats could use this to push it off for months and months. it feels like republican are remarkable at eating their own. this is -- >> i agree with you. this is a little crazy. we have four people here and they range on the ideological spectrum from very conservative to super conservative. it's a very narrow range. and the hysteria of some people on the conservative end of the spectrum about not just brett kavanagh, but about the two other judges, judge hardiman and judge kethledge. to suggest that they're open border zelle oughts and crazy things like that, this is just wild. so that part is crazy. to me the majority leaders' concern is real in the sense that he has a very narrow majority. he's got a majority that's even narrower than it looks on paper because senator mccain is sick. so his -- because he understands it, any of these four is going

to be -- his kind of guy on the court, he wants the path of least resistance. that makes sense. but just fyi, you know what a staff secretary does. staff secretary at the white house pushes a lotte of paper the president has a lot of paper trail. the notion this is what could hold up brett kavanagh veers over into silliness. >> the picture that's been circulating with carl rove -- you've been in this republican party, he was the genius in the republican revolution. >> boy genius. this is like what i would consider a primary election. it's an electorate of one, but you have the election. the various sides jockeying. at the end of the day the party will rally behind who the president introduces. >> it's very much like a reality show. it's fitting they cut into the

bachelorette. it's really fitting for a former reality show host. >> i think it was amy walter who tweeted something to the effect of this is 2018 in a nutshell, this president back-to-back breaking into the bachelorette with a supreme court pick. i want to read to a piece ruth marcus wrote this week about roe v. wade. of all the potential supreme court nominees the president is considering, the one who seems most inclined to undo kennedy's work, is amy barrett. she has the shortest paper trail, her academic writings are the flashing neon sign, i'll do it. this is already a court that has proved its willingness to overrule in convenient precedence by a single vote, adding barrett would pose a clear and present danger to abortion rights. so, ruth, kind of explain where you're coming from here especially people who may see she's the only woman on the short list. why is she the biggest threat to abortion rights? >> it's important for us to

understand that you can be a woman and a pro-choice -- i'm sorry, you can be a woman and oppose abortion rights. and many women do. so -- and it would probably be politically easier for a court majority with a woman on it to overturn roe. the reason i say she's the most likely to do that has to do with two strands of her writings. one talks about the responsibility of catholic judges in death penalty cases. her hostility to abortion rights becomes clear. the second has to do with her very interesting position about the importance of what the lawyers call starry dee isis is, sticking with precedent. she has a well expressed and developed view when a justice looks at a case and concludes especially a case based on constitutional law, the justice's responsibility is to the constitution and not to the precedent. the justice, she thinks the precedent is wrong, she should

overrule it. therefore, watch out, roe. >> interesting. kimberly atkins, one of the things interesting about the dynamics and some of the reporting last week was around this idea that perhaps a woman would be a better choice if you're trying to convince lisa murkowski, susan collins to vote for you. it seems the indication coming out of republican leaders in the senate is that actually picking amy coney barrett would be a very real risk for people like collins and murkowski. >> i think that's right for all the reasons ruth laid out. the paper trail, and somebody who expressed hostility toward keeping roe v. wade as the law of the land. that would be the nonstarter for her. i don't know if this quite raises to the level of hostility but it sure doesn't look good. it looks like she's headed in that direction. she would have the most trouble with senators murkowski and collins in this case. that's why i think for a while it looked like it was between kethledge and kavanagh until mcconnell sort of made this last

weekend overture. republicans like, he's from pennsylvania, used to drive a taxi, has a great story. now he's back in the mix as somebody who the president can really get behind and so could possibly -- >> we should also mention his secret weapon, judge hardiman's secret weapon which is the president's sister. on the third circuit court of appeals and recommended him to the president and one thing we know about president trump is he kind of relies on family. >> i would point out, though, that senators collins and murkowski as well as senator mccain and three democrats voted for judge barrett when she was confirmed just last october. >> fair enough. mark, who do you think has the tougher job here, mitch mcconnell in trying to keep senators collins and murkowski in the fold, or chuck schumer, trying to hold the line with joe manchin, joe donley, heidi high camp? >> chuck schumer has a much more difficult position. many of those red state

democrats, if they vote for the president's nominee, whomever that nominee is, they're going to lose their base. they're going to lose their donors. a lot of their activists who knock on doors, make phone calls. if they oppose it, they're going to lose the voters they need to attract. in trump states, to winn win election. >> there was a good analysis on the front page of the times. they may have to be making a decision between do we hold the senate now in favor at the expense of a court for 40 years? >> a nominee by a republican president is not going to be -- fail to win approval from a republican senate unless republican senators peel off. so, i totally agree with mark. mitch mcconnell has a tough hand because of his slim majority, but he's got a way better hand than chuck schumer does. if i were chuck schumer, i would want to watch and see if you can lose a republican senator, get a republican senator to peel off, then yes, put pressure on your

endangered incumbents. if it's not going to be a winning battle at any event, why would you risk their seats? that's also crazy. >> we're losing a lot. we have heard that a lot tonight. mark, final question before we go. what is your sense of what conservatives want the court to look like after this particular choice has gone through? you referred to it as a primary. what are the primary voters looking for here? >> i think any of the four, they will be happy with. even though they might have some, you know, leanings one way or the other in the primary process, so to speak. they want someone who is going to uphold the constitution, who believes the constitution. >> and is that about abortion at the end of the day? >> i don't think it is about abortion. i think it's about being true to the constitution and the law in the way it's written, not how it can be shaped into something else. >> that's still code for the abortion fight. >> i don't know. it's not just about abortion, though. you look at the rulings from last week in the last two weeks in terms of free speech and the government cannot force you to say things that you do not believe in or force you to join a group and pay to join a group that you don't believe in.

those are basic fundamental rights issues that were decided by a conservative majority in favor of the individual, not bhat government was trying to do. >> all right. we have a lot more to talk about. congressman mike quigley joins me as the president's legal strategy evolves, and he prepares to meet with vladimir putin. and we're going to report from bill neely as divers prepare to go back inside treacherous caves in thailand to rescue the remaining boys trapped inside. and scott pruitt becomes the latest high-profile member of the trump administration to take a hike. as we go to break, a brief list of some of the others. >> i want to give special thanks to administrator scott pruitt. d.a. secretary david shulkin. >> h.r. mcmaster. >> i wish rex tillerson well. >> gary cohn, the president of goldman sachs. >> director comey. >> the greatest businessman in the world, carl icahn. >> amoroso is a nice person.

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we'd like to know if there is any factual basis for the investigation originally or they've developed one. that investigation is highly suspect. has there ever been an investigation of this magnitude with such obvious indications of

extreme disgusting bias which totally corrupts the process? >> that was president trump's personal attorney rudy giuliani giving us a preview of his legal team's new strategy for handling the mueller investigation. at least publicly. those comments came after "the new york times" reported the president's lawyers are telling mueller's team they need to prove they have evidence that the president committed a crime before he will agree to sit down for an interview. joining me now, member of the house intelligence committee democratic congressman mike quigley of illinois. congressman, it's good to see you. let's start with what rudy giuliani has been saying this morning across these sunday shows. he is essentially alleging corruption and bias in the people around robert mueller, although he would not go so far as to tell my colleague chuck todd that mueller himself is corrupt. what is your assessment of what these fbi officials did, peter strzok, who is set to testify this week not in front of one of

your committees but up on capitol hill, who has sent these text messages indicating that he was -- had negative feelings towards the president? and that has led to this claim of bias. >> yeah, look, the fbi, the cia, the intel community, the justice department the people who work there don't live in a vacuum. they have their own personal views and they're entitled to them. but there is no indication that any of this -- their personal views, whether it be the clinton investigation or the trump investigation or any other before it, had their views impact how they did their jobs. but rudy is just fishing. obviously what he's talking about here, some new legal theory. and i practice criminal law ten years. i can't imagine this one. that the justice department has to prove criminal violations of the law before the president is allowed to be subpoenaed. he could be subpoenaed at any moment.

supreme court has ruled on sefr several occasions, two pretty landmark cases involving nixon and clinton that the president is not above the law and they have to respond to, in one case, legally bound subpoenas. so, look, it's the same legal team that said that he could virtually use pardons to stop a criminal investigation, that they could decide which investigations go forward, those of their friends and which ones they don't against their enemies. that the justice department has to give them information, discovery, before a trial date. this is all total fabrications of a legal team i think that's a legal freaked out by concerns among many about mr. cohen flipping. >> i want to ask you as well about devin nunes, the republican chairman of the intelligence committee. he has been sending letters to congressman gowdy and goodlatte on the judiciary committee

asking them to interview a long list of people about the trump dossier. were democrats on the intelligence committee aware that those requests were going to be made? and what's he up to? >> we haven't had notification from mr. nunes about anything he's going to do for months now. he has under taken rogue investigations. he's working with the white house to prepare his own memo. he began the investigation with the midnight ride to the white house which was very clear that he was getting information, then turn ing it back to the white house to show some other conspiracy. he also stopped subpoenas on documents and people of critical interest. he's basically worked hand in glove with the white house to thwart the investigation, so what he's doing now, which is unilateral, rogue, against the rules of the committee and the house, is absolutely nothing new. >> congressman, do you or other

democrats on your committee have any questions about how the fbi has conducted itself? or if you take back the house, will you shutdown all of these lines of inquiry? >> look, we're the oversight committee. we should always be looking at how the intel community operates. but what we've seen so far is desperate attempts by the republicans in the house trying to protect the president politically and legally. nothing in all the wild allegations they've made for over a year and a half now has been found to be true. so we can only expect this to continue. as, again, i think this investigation -- >> would you urge democrats to shutdown these lines of inquiry if they take back control of the committee in >> look, if there is a reasonable line of inquiry, we'll follow-up on it. what is more important than all that, the most important investigation of our lifetime, i would say more important than watergate, especially to our democratic process, was shutdown unilaterally by the republicans on this committee. that would reopen.

>> i want to show you something that the president had to say about his upcoming meeting with vladimir putin and then get your take. let's take a look. >> i'm meeting with president putin next week, and getting along -- let me tell you, getting along with russia and getting along with china and getting along with other countries is a good thing. it's not a bad thing. it's a good thing. they're going, will president trump be prepared, you know, president putin is kgb and this and that. you know what? putin's fine. he's fine. we're all fine. we're people. will i be prepared? totally prepared. i've been preparing for this stuff my whole life. they don't say that. they don't say that. >> congressman, do you agree that putin is fine? >> yeah, he's a ball of fun. he's a dangerous man. he isn't a kgb person. he was kgb.

he kills journalists. he is engaged in a war with one of our allies in ukraine. he annexed crimea and our president who is not prepared for this has opened up the possibility of recognizing the annexation of crimea and bringing russia back into the -- it would be the g-8. so he's talking about attacking our allies and going along with one of our great adversaries. it's okay to talk with him. it's important to engage. but what he's doing now is turning over the world order. the liberal democratic world order that began right after the second world war. that world order is under attack by its primary architect, the united states of america. and at the same time embracing president putin, refusing to acknowledge what the russians did to the democratic process which the entire intel community agrees to, and a bipartisan

senate committee agrees to. so he believes putin more than his own intel community and our allies. >> congressman mike quigley, thanks so much for your time today. really appreciate it. >> thank you, sure. >> ruth marcus, i want to pick back up on what we were talking a little about the house intelligence committee, the inquiries from devin nunes. if democrats do get a chance to run -- go back to running these committees, how does that sort of unwind? it seems to me they would shutdown most of the nunes inquiries, most likely, but there is potentially quite a few threads for them to pickup going forward. >> yes, and we just had this very interesting, very compelling, very telling report from the senate intelligence committee. but there are additional things to look at, and i think for me, taking back the house is going to be -- would be significant if it happened, not just for the russia inquiry, but for all of the other -- i would be worried if i were the white house and republicans about all of the

other strands of inquiry that could go on. imagine what an actual functioning house that was going to be willing to engage in oversight could have done with the late lamented scott pruitt. >> i was just going to say there was reporting in "the new york times" today, mark lauder, before we go, officials said there was no way we'd be prepared to fight against those investigations. >> let's remember when the democrats took control during president george w. bush's presidency, they established a war room just to deal with the endless string of inquiries and subpoenas and investigations that were coming then. >> do you think your former colleagues were ready for it? >> it would multiply 100 times over now. in these circumstances, i don't think they have to be prepared for it today. i think as we get closer to that time, which i don't think will happen, but they will -- there is time to prepare. >> all right. ruth marcus, thank you so much for your time tonight. really appreciate it, all of your insights. as we go to break, if the president says a certain yiddish word on tv, journalists can,

too. >> the way he talked about us and nato, for example, am i allowed to say this on msnbc? that we're just a bunch of schmucks. >> they want to protect against russia yet they pay billions of dollars to russia and we're the schmucks paying for the whole theg. >> they enjoy hearing him say we've been treated like schmucks and we're not going to take it any more. >> very nice. very nice. whoooo.

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how far does crystal geyser alpine spring water travel from its source to the bottle? less than a mile and a half. crystal geyser. always bottled at the mountain source. naturally. welcome back to "kasie d.c." we are continuing to follow breaking news out of thailand. eight boys and their soccer coach are still waiting to be rescued from the cave where they've been trapped for more than two weeks. so far four of the boys have been safely rescued, but oxygen tanks have been depleted and heavy rains have returned to the area and so the team of 90 divers is getting ready to go back in. nbc news chief global correspondent bill neely is on the ground near the site of the rescue operation. bill, this has been such a tense time. we had some good news with those nes initial rescues, but still so much to be done. >> reporter: yes, hi, kasie.

yes, so much to be done. it's dawn here in northern thailand. this was an operation that began with the dramatic words, we have to act now. and it has started well. the commander calling it a masterpiece. but it was triggered by an emergency. falling oxygen levels in the boy's cave and by thunderous rain. and right now behind me, the divers are getting ready to do it all again. nine lives still to be saved. for one small boy, the earned of a nightmare, carried on a gurney to a waiting helicopter, then off to the hospital. it's a moment many feared would never come. another helicopter poised for a second boy. they had battled through this, swirling water, narrow passage ways, a route that's already proved a death trap. the boys clinging to ropes guided by elite divers for more than two miles. commanders chose the strongest

boys first. they told divers they were ready. this is d-day, said the commander. we have to act now. the rescue began at 10:00 local time this morning. ten divers reaching the cave and attaching two boys, each one to two divers. less than eight hours after it started, the boise merged. two hours later, a second pair. four were free. one diver told nbc news the boys were totally calm. their escape route widened hours before as rescuers drilled through cave walls. but it was a rescue made urgent by falling oxygen levels in the caves and falling rain outside. the monsoon rains have begun with a vengeance and this is why the commander says it's d-day, because these rains will flood the caves very quickly. the rescue, he said, was a masterpiece of planning.

it's been paused overnight to resupply the 90 divers with air tanks and will restart in the coming hours. so, eight boys and their coach remain trapped. their lives still hanging in the balance. this isn't over, but the boys' long journey home has begun. >> so, bill, it's a great start. but the conditions are getting worse as rescue divers prepare to go back in? >> reporter: yeah, we think the pattern will be much as it was on day one. so the boys will come out two by two. we understand that the strongest boys were chosen to come out first. two were 14-year-olds, one 13-year-old, and one 16-year-old. but we don't know who will be chosen next. but 90 divers were there on day one, so we expect the same number to be there today. the operation will start in a few hours' time, although it may take as many as ten hours for

the first boys to come out. and again, the same pattern will come. they will be met with gurneys, taken to a hospital, and med evac'd to a hospital which is about a 15, 20-minute flight from here. so, eight boys have spent the night with their coach, done half a mile underneath me here. it must be a difficult ordeal for them. many of them are weak. it said that the coach may be the weakest of all. and, of course, for the parents, terrible ordeal. one mother said she didn't know her son was being evacuated until she read about it on social media. so, everyone here has their fingers crossed. the four boys who came out apparently with stood the ordeal extremely well according to one diver who spoke to nbc news. the divers themselves a bit apprehensive. and, above all, they do not want to be complacent. day one went well.

they need day two, and maybe day three to go just as well. kasie? >> bill neely, thanks so much for your reporting and our thoughts continue to be with those eight boys and their coach still trapped in that cave. when we continue on case deeg "kasie d.c.," we'll talk about the mounting war on lobsters and newspapers. up 30%. if it holds, will likely lead to pay cuts, according to one industry advocacy group. plus david farenthold joins us with his reporting as mar-a-lago looks abroad to hire dozens of workers. in 5th grade. we got married after college. and had twin boys. but then one night, a truck didn't stop. but thanks to our forester, neither did our story. and that's why we'll always drive a subaru.

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so, the thing about a trade war is that one side fires a shot, then the other side fires back. in the latest round, china has responded to the white house with $25 million in tariffs and while recent polling shows international trade at the top of just a few people's minds, there's growing evidence that it is changing opinions of some voters. joining me on set is pulitzer prize oner david favorite hold and jo ling kent who covers business and technology. joe, i want to start with you. can you just help us understand? we see these headlines, x million or x billion in tariffs on these goods. at what point are people really going to start to feel this in their daily lives? >> we're going to see it soon. what we'll see is how this will actually impact jobs throughout the country. our team has been reporting on how layoffs have begun to happen even throughout the midwest

ranging from textiles like nails to other kinds of factory goods and agriculture as well. so, the issue here is not just the back and forth between the u.s. and china. this is really about the american consumer. when does the cost get passed down, because these companies are going to be taking a big hit. soybean farmers, folks who make cheese, all kinds of different manufacturing industries and almost every single type of food category that you can think of at the grocery store is slated t to be impacted because of this back and forth between beijing and washington, d.c. we're expecting to see probably 170,000 jobs according to one economist eliminated within the year. and then if president trump goes forward and continues to implement more trade changes and tariffs on other countries including those in europe, mexico and canada as he has forecasted, you may see us enter a recession territory and that would be about 700,000 jobs, american jobs, on the line here.

for a president who is looking to create american jobs, bring them back and highlight manufacturing, a lot of workers are finding themselves between a rock and a hard place here, kasie. >> yeah, some reporters have been looking at anecdotal impacts in key midterm races. they interviewed a hog farmer. they said tosh, a third generation farmer who always votes republican said he's voting for black burn's democratic republican in part because trump's trade wars are hurting his family business. a sizeable one with some 400 employees and 30,000 pigs. the cost of steel needed for new barnes is up, he said, and the expanding pork market stands to suffer under new tariffs. so, kimberly atkins, at what points and mark lauder, i'm going to give you a chance to answer this question, too, in a second. at what point do trump voters start blaming the president? for things going on in their lives? >> i think there is going to be a tipping point.

his fans were in favor of his strong message the u.s. is in unfair trade deals, we need to fix them, we need to get tough with countries like china. but in the actual starting of a trade war, maybe not this initial salvo may not be felt across the country. but if it escalates and they do more and more and he said he's willing to go up to $500 billion in tariffs on china, that's really going to have an impact on farmers, on consumers, on businesses. if people start feeling it in their pocketbook, they're going to realize this perhaps was not the best way to sort of rectify any unfairness he sought in the trade war. i'm not sure it will happen in the mid terms, but he has to worry about 2020. >> mark lauder, are voters -- these are the states that gave president trump the presidency. and by this much, very slim number of voters who handed him the electoral college victory. is he completely teflon with them or is there aeries?! >> i think they're giving him a certain benefit of the doubt. there was a stud that i just came out early this week, i believe from investors business

daily, which showed consumer and economic confidence the highest in rural areas of america since the turn of the century. the highest in the midwest since 2002. and this was just recently done. so it includes the most recent back and forth on trade. i think they are giving him a fair shake because they know that we have been involved in these trade -- unfair trade practices for decades. presidents of both parties have talked about needing to do something about it and they see that this is the president that they elected who said, i would do it, and he's actually doing it. there are bumps in the road, sure. and i think there will be a certain amount of forgiveness to allow this -- i won't put a time line on it, but i think there is a certain amount of time they are going to say you're doing what you told us you would do. now let's see it work. and we'll see how that plays out. >> david farenthold, you've done reporting on the president's own businesses in china. is there any interplay in what is going on in this war and his

bottom line? >> the connection between trump's business and china are these two overseas developments. one in dubai and one in indonesia where trump has a licensed deal, he's being paid to operate a golf course, put his name on a business that is being built. and the same developments have chinese state companies helping to build them. trump and the chinese businesses aren't doing business directly, but he benefits from the infrastructure and the developments they are building. >> okay. >> so there is not -- i don't think the trade war will have a direct impact on those relationships, but this is certainly a case where the government of china controls businesses that could help donald trump down the road. >> and interesting -- >> jo, go ahead. >> very good point he just made. you have to think about these multinational companies that are really driving the american economy like apple and these big technology companies that manufacture so many of their goods in china. they also sell to the chinese market. in some cases it's their second biggest or maybe their biggest market out there. how is it going to impact those ceos, those shareholders, so many of those stocks, of course, are in your 401 k, and you have

ceos like apple, tim cook going to the white house trying to make the case here to ask the president to tread very carefully because this is a complicated issue that could really have a major economic impact not just on what you're buying and spending, but your investments. >> that's a really great point. at a time the u.s. economy is humming, the latest round of chinese tariffs is expected to cool demand from everything from american cars to crustaceans. vaughn hillyard reports from maine. >> see the nice beautiful shiny shell? >> reporter: off the coast of maine, lobster season is at its summer peak. >> i've been lobstering since i was 13 and i'm 63. >> reporter: he's one of 12,000 mainers in an industry that accounts for the state's economy. in a global trade war, china fired back with a 25% tariff on the lobster so many people rely on. >> we'd like to see prices go

up, not down. we'll see how it affects us. >> reporter: it had been a booming open market for the fishermen. the rising tide had exploded in recent years. lifting all boats with it. >> how many lobsters are you sending out a day? >> we probably send out 15 to 20,000 lobsters, almost every day. >> reporter: and how much of that is going overseas? >> overseas, over 60% of our b lobsters. >> reporter: how much to china? >> china alone is 20%. >> reporter: tom adams is a major lobster distributor. he exports them from hundreds of local fisherman and co-ops to overseas markets. he invested $1.5 million in the expansion not foreseeing what was to come. how long can you afford to be patient in this? >> we can't afford to be patient at all. >> reporter: it's the same story in our down the road in portland where mark's company had just entered the chinese market place. >> i just spent three months with the potential new buyer in shanghai that wanted 40,000 pounds a week.

and then when the tariff scare came, now it's radio silence. >> reporter: then there are the people who haul the traps day in and day out, like cyrus sleeper. he's fished these waters since age of 9 and now brings in 50,000 pounds of lobster every year. are you frustrated? >> yes, yes. frustrated. it seems like they had just gotten rolling and had been building good relationships in china to put a damper on that at this point is very frustrating. >> reporter: some here look to the president to be a boon for the economy. >> i was hopeful. >> reporter: you were hopeful for the trump administration when it started? >> yes, absolutely. >> reporter: where is that now? >> i'm concerned. i'm concerned. some of the decisions and the way those decisions are being made aren't considering the ripple effect. >> reporter: now there is worry that china will look elsewhere for its lobster, like canada just to the north. and the people here in maine are stuck quickly searching elsewhere to make up those millions of dollars. >> everything that i have, my

car, house, everything that i own is from lobstering. >> that was our vaughn hillyard reporting a very difficult hardship assignment. summer eating lobster. i want to turn to david farenthold's post, mar-a-lago looking to hire 61 foreign workers during the season. still about american businesses facing interesting challenges under president trump. we know that there are some other places that are struggling to get the foreign workers they need. we had covered the crab industry in maryland, for example. they can't get the visas they need. first of all, do we think the president is going to get preferential treatment for these? these are not sure bets if you apply for the visas. >> they said the president won't get preferential treatment. he's lucky if they break it up by summer and winter. the 33,000 put out for summer needed for crab picking,

landscaping, golf courses, he's applying for winter when people fly down to new york. >> people go to florida in the winter. >> there is not much workers in the winter. >> he got yeah, how lucky, exac. he may be better off anyway because of the season. >> this is something where he has tried to limit these visas dramatically, right? >> there's a broader effort by the trump administration to try to restrict means of illegal immigration on the logic that temporary workers, low scale immigrants drive down wages for american workers, that they make it possible for employers to pay less to give less benefits. and so doing this, this is exactly the kind of thing people like tom cotton said we shouldn't do. why don't you pay them more and give benefits for people here in america looking for a job. they're not rocket science jobs. they're cooks and waiters.

a lot of people in florida should have those qualifications. >> i think this is in your story, david, is that mar-a-lago has to prove to the department of labor that it has sought to advertise and hire americans before these visas could be proved. and it's also not usual and other seasonal clubs in the area also do the same thing. >> that's right. palm beach has a lot of seasonal work. trump's club has always done what's legally required to show they're trying to recruit american workers, but it's less than what you think. >> i'm sure every people have fax machines in this day and age. thank you all for your time tonight. we really appreciate it. kasie d.c. coming up right after this. get your groove on with one a day 50+.

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circumstances is trying to help. >> we want to show you this video elon musk shared just a few hours ago. but essentially he's putting together a prototype using the liquid oxygen tank of what is full kn rocket hull. we saw someone coming out today in an l.a. high school pool. it was going to create a kidicized submarine that was light enough to be carried by two divers. and he actually got ferrell time feedback from divers in thailand to see if they could do it. he was planning to ship it out today, saying he wants it to be useful if not now in the future. he said it's obviously not going to be needed at this juncture in time, but he says it could be used an escape pod in space. more to come on that story. >> props to the kid who was

helpful in testing that. i personally would have been terrified to have gotten into that thing. in our next hour professor allen dershowitz joins us live as the president's legal strategy shifts yet again. our team of subburnnburned prod watch so you don't have to. we're back after this. (vo) progress is in the pursuit. audi will cover your first month's lease payment on select models during summer of audi sales event. overwhelming air fresheners can send you running... so try febreze one. with no aerosols and no heavy perfumes. so you can spray and stay. febreze one.

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we have a lot to get to today. the troubled nuclear talks with north korea. >> north korea is accusing the

u.s. of making ganger-like demands. >> gangster like tactics. >> of course we're going to hear hard talk coming from north korea. >> the north koreans are following a standard play book. >> this is standard operating procedure. >> this weekend we're seeing a tough new line from robert mueller's legal team. >> setting new conditions for a special counsel interview for president trump. >> we'd like to know if there's any factual base for the investigation originally or they've developed one. is this with witch hunt many people think it is or is there a factual basis? >> that is a preposterous position. >> look at how bias the people who started this investigation were. some sort of vicious bias against drchonald trump. the president did nothing wrong. i'm defending a man who's being wrongfully accused probably more than any other. we can't find incriminating

anything. 13 angry democrats working for him. i don't like political considerations to enter into this. >> really? really? welcome to the second hour of "kasie dc." michael steel, nbc news intelligence and national intelligence reporter ken dilanian and congressional reporter for "the washington post," paul kaine. we want to start with rudy giuliani, who surprise, surprise has resurfaced and is signaling it is unlikely that he would sit down with robert mueller. they would need to have evidence that president trump kmied a crime and that his testimony is essential to completing the investigation. giuliani clarified that comment

today. >> i have to modify that a bit. my yoet is noteds of a crime. it's a factual basis for the investigation. we've been through everything on collusion and obstruction. we can't find an incriminating everything, and we need a basis f for this investigation. >> then there was the june 2017 memo from trump's lawyer mark kasowitz to mueller, which revealed some of the legal team's strategy and blasts james comey as machiavellian. and today he pushed the basis that the entire investigation has been sullied. >> this is the most corrupt investigation i have ever seen. the fact is that that investigation is highly suspect. it's under investigation right now by harowits. >> he was talking about the clinton investigation.

>> let me finish. but then the guy who ran it was made in charge of this investigation and has unbelievable bias against president trump. now, how you can say that's a legitimate investigation, well, then there are no illegitimate investigations. you talk about the counter intelligence investigation, well we know it happened. we know it's highly suspect because the people doing it were extremely bias immediately. we know they came over into the this investigation. >> you think robert mueller is a biased man? >> no, but i think he's vund surrounded by biased people. has there ever been an investigation with such obvious indications of extreme bias which totally corrupts the process? >> there's so much there. ken dilanian, he's essentially arguing there that the president has already exonerated himself, that they have gone through all this information, that they have

found no evidence of collusion or obstruction and therefore there's no need to talk to mueller. make any sense ? >> well, they know what they know. they don't know what robert mueller has, they may not even know all the documents at this point that mueller has. look, giuliani is playing the hand he's been dealt, which is a pretty good hand on the fbi agent. he's talking about pete struck, and the inflammatory comments. and the inspector general is actually investigating now how the russia investigation got started. i'm not sure we'll see that report. but this one fbi agent was not the decider. there's a whole judicial system of warren and many fbi officials who got this russia investigation started. we don't have the time to talk about all the evidence that's already been accumulated of contacts between the trump

campaign and russia, of potential collusion and things no other campaign has done before. >> and joyce vance, to a certain extent aren't they getting exactly what they want here and we're sitting here having an argument about the investigation and whether or not it was corrupt than the president's own objections? >> i think he's masterful at getting us to comment about whatever his criminal de jure is. but they don't get to challenge that investigation while it's in progress. there's a time and place and that's after indictment when they can challenge with a judge what went on during the investigation. not at this stage in the game. >> paul kaine, what's your sense on capitol hill how this all kind of resonating up there? do you think there is starting to be real traction for a push to end muller's investigation or an undermining of the main

stream of the party? >> bill frist has been out of the senate for 12 years. still respected but off the top of my head, only about 30 or 40 u.s. senators served with bill frist. what you heard from mitch mcconnell as the recess began almost 12 days ago is that time is beginning to run short. trump continues to maintain an incredibly high approval rating among republicans. he's much higher now than obama was at this point in 2010. and that just puts the fear of god in the republicans. and i think i don't think they are anywhere near ready to break with trump, and whether that means protecting mueller or even much worse through impeachment. >> yeah, there's a certain degree of cog nissant dissonance here where giuliani says trump

did nothing wrong, we know there's no collusion, mueller is not biased. and trump wants to talk to mueller but because of this bias text message to this fbi agent two years ago, no, we can't have him talk to the mueller investigation. it doesn't make a lot of sense and when we look at historically these investigations can take years. >> joining us now is an attorney and former law protesser allen dershowitz who has a new book hitting shelves tomorrow. really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> let's start where michael steele left off and especially considering your argument in this book there is a case against impeaching the president. how can you possibly know that if you don't have a conclusion of this investigation? >> you can't know that, of course, but any good lawyer anticipates all the problems. your previous guest says a lawyer should wait until after

the indictment to challenge the investigation. i wouldn't hire any lawyer who had that attitude or work with any lawyer who had that attitude. waiting until after the indictment too late. you of course challenge, challenge, challenge leading up to the indictment. and as far as this argument which we hear all the time which shows only inexperienced people in the criminal law make it. if he did nothing wrong, why doesn't he speak to the prosecutor? i've been defending criminals and accused criminals for 53 years. i have never had any one of my clients speak to a prosecutor. prosecutors aren't there to help you. they're there to find perjury. when comey wrote his book he said -- >> so you don't think the president should sit for an interview with robert mueller? >> as a criminal defense lawyer, it'd be insanity. he said prosecutors never call the subject until after they've gotten all the evidence and then they call them in to see whether

they commit perjury. that's comey talking. so of course any experienced criminal lawyer, for an ordinary charged person or an accused person will follow exactly the tactics being followed. now, he may have to testify. they could subpoena him, and he will challenge the subpoena on grounds of executive privilege, exceeds the authority of the mandate. and all of that will be mitigated in court. >> and that's by the supreme court, right? >> it could get up to am supreme court. when it got up to the supreme court with clinton the two justices voted against him and the same idea with nixon. so the idea a president should be recused from making an appointment because a justice of a supreme court might have to rule on his case essentially would mean no president could make an appointment. they block the legitimate appointment by president obama, and that was unfair and in my

view unconstitutional. >> are you preemptively arguing whoever president trump nominates tomorrow should recuse themselves from the investigation that the supreme court might decide? >> i don't think so. justice scalia recused himself but very, very rarely. unless a -- just because it was nominated by the president would not be grounds for recusal. remember the courts said you would have a duty to sit unless you are recused. rod rosenstein, how he could be conducting an investigation in which he is the key major central witness just defies any logic. i taught legal ethics for over 25 years, i i would think that would be the most basic thing. you can't be both a prosecutor and a potential witness in a leading major case like this.

>> rosenstein was appointed by president trump, took the job after there was already a recusal from jeff session. do you think that the president would be in legal jeopardy if he were to fire rosenstein? >> i don't think he should fire rosenstein, but i think the lawyers would be in their power to recuse him. he's a defense witness. he's the most important defense witness. mr. president, you obstructed justice. oh, no, i was advised by rod rosenstein, and rosenstein says no i was fool into doing it. the only way he doesn't recuse himself is if they've already decided the president cannot obstruct justice for simply firing somebody he had the right to fire for whatever reason his motive may have been. >> do you think robert mueller

is biased? >> i don't. i think mueller is a very decent person. >> are the people around him biased? >> well, certainly struck should have recused himself. >> does that taint the entire investigation? >> i think it's overreaching to say the entire investigation is tainted. but i think struck should have reaccused himself. >> so you don't think giuliani was overreaching this morning? >> look, he's a lawyer. if i were a lawyer for donald trump, i'm not. i'm an objective neutral person who's making the same argument -- >> your friends on the vineyard don't seem to think so. >> hypothetically if hillary clinton was elected, and she were being subject to an impeachment investigation, i'd be making the same arguments. people would be applauding me and cheering me and loving me. these are hipicates who don't

understand you'd be making the same arguments, if you believe in the constitution, there isn't one rule for hillary clinton and one rule for donald trump. there's one rule that applies to all americans. that's the point i've been trying to make to blind responses, deaf responses and an unwillingness to listen. if the aclu were making these arguments i could be enjoying myself at martha's vineyard, but they're dead in the water. >> is there no difference between having a meeting at trump tower with a bunch of russians than what hillary clinton did on the campaign trail? >> i think so. but i think many people on the republican side thinks she is much, much more guilty. they're wrong. that's not my role. my role is not to decide guilt or innocence. my role is to make sure that the civil liberties of all americans, the constitutional rights of all americans are protected. i argued against special counsel when bill clinton was

investigated. i've been making that argument now for many years. i've been making an argument against expansion of the criminal law for many years. and i've been arguing that a president can't commit a crime, the actus reas of the crime. these are controversial arguments. read my book. i end the book by saying debate me, beat me in argument. come up with better arguments, but don't ignore and don't shutdown debate. that's not the american way. >> so you're saying there never should be a situation where the president should be impeached? >> of course the president should be impeached. >> so what makes a difference? >> you have to commit a crime. it has to be an actual crime. the frame of the constitution says it has to be treason, bribery or other high crimes or misdemeanors. they rejected the proposal it should be a miscarriage of office or negligence of office or being a terrible, terrible president. >> so you're saying it can't be

obstruction of justice? >> this cannot be obstruction of justice. and the only thing that could get president trump impeached is if he foolishly sat down willingly, said something which is then contradicted by cohen or somebody else, and then if he commits perjury while in office, that's an impeachable offense. but without that, if you find some things he committed before he became president, before he ran for president, that's not impeachable. i lay all this out. but the case is based on the facts as we now know them. of course those facts could change. this is not an argument against impeaching the person, donald trump. it's a case against impeaching anyone who was not accused of one of the specified crimes under the constitution. >> all right, well, the title and cover of your book would contradict the statement you just made. is the case against impeaching trump -- >> when you open it up it says the constitutional trump against impeaching trump. that's what it is.

it lays out the constitutional case, but also says on the basis what we now know or being accused with or charged with, there's no case for impeachment. >> fair enough. allen dershowitz your book is hitting shelves tomorrow. joyce vance, thoughts, feelings? >> well, this idea that prosecutors only talk to people to hang them up and to lead them into a perjury trap is just wrong. no prosecutor wants to prosecute a case against a defendant who's not guilty. because prosecutors, after all, have a burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. so someone who's understa an investigation, who is in fact guilty, their strongest hand is to talk to prosecutors and tell their side of things. and i can tell you from years of experience people do that and do that successfully. it's only a perjury trap if you're going to come in and lie. >> we've seen mueller use that

tactic, where he's gotten people even if they were coming in to cut a deal with him, on a prosecutor charge. >> but a good defense lawyer does not wait to attack the case. particularly if their client is guilty, they attack and they attack. and you know what, it's working in this case because a "the washington post" poll shows that mueller is unfavorable is going up. but mueller hasn't spoken yet. he doesn't speak to the media and hasn't spoken to the court system. >> what's the difference if you are negotiating, you're saying you go after the case when the indictment comes down. but it's different if you're not a public figure. what's their behind the scenes legal strategy. >> i think their number one is not to have donald trump speak to robert mueller. >> michael steele, is their campaign working? >> yeah, absolutely. you're seeing public opinion shift against robert mueller.

you're seeing people's perception of this sort of cloud -- at this point it's sort of like hillary clinton's e-mail scandal. people can't keep track of the details, but it creates this cloud over everything. and that muddies the waters for people who don't have time to follow every twist and turn. and i think ultimately this may be less a legal strategy and more a political strategy both in terms of protecting the house going into the 2018 mid-terms and in terms of a potential impeachment battle following a democratic victory if that were to happen. >> paul kaine, rudy giuliani was asked this morning, he kept talking about impeachment, bringing it up. and he said why are you focused on that, i didn't ask you about impeachment but clearly you're focused on it. how much of that laying the groundwork is going on? >> the person who would begin that step is jerry nadler, the congressman from the upper west side who would be the democratic

chairman if democrats win back the house. he is a constitutional law expert, but he is very hesitant to talk about it. nancy pelosi, who would be speaker presumably, gets very angry -- maybe. whenever anyone brings up impeachment, he says we're not there yet. the democrats have an idea how it might work if they get there, but they're putting all the eggs in the basket of robert mueller and him producing a report that's really clear and easy to understand, which as some of the lawyers here might say is not always easy. >> the deed. just ahead, as democrats in congress prepare for battle for supreme court, we're going to talk about why some of their voters may be shrugging their shoulders. we're going to talk about reports that he turned a blind eye to sexual misconduct when he

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welcome back. with the balance of the high court poised to shift to it right, there's antidotal evidence from "the washington post" that many liberal voters don't view replacing anthony kennedy on the high court with the same urgency as some conservatives. a group led by a former hillary clinton staffer conducted focus

groups in ohio nearly three weeks before kennedy announced his retirement. during a focus group of ten educated white female voters one woman said when it came to judges, quote, i don't see the impact on my day to day life. though kennedy who had been the swing vote for years voted just that week for a colorado baker who declined to make a wedding cake for a same sex couple. seven out of ten women in the focus group didn't know who he was. and when asked about roe v. wade, the landmark decision legalizing abortion would be oe overturned, one responded, quote, i think it's completely unlikely. this is one thing where it does feel i think to many americans who aren't tuned into the day to day news on that roe v. wade is not in jeopardy. but the consequences of it being

overturned i think would dramatically shift that immediately. >> i think that's right. democrats woke up the day after anthony kennedy's resignation perhaps with the understanding of the importance of the court. there's a whole generation who grew up assuming roe v. wade was the law of the land, and perhaps the afford care act that provided people with pre-existing conditions wouldn't be set aside in a meaningful way. but the risk here isn't an outright reversal of roe. it's eroding roe and eating away at its provisions. and that's what democrats i think will perhaps have to assimilate in term of the importance of selecting judges. >> michael steele, republicans particularly mitch mcconnell, have been relentless on this topic. >> and it isn't just this moment. this is decades of conservatives believing the courts are eroding our rights, passing things they

don't believe in, whether it's protection of unborn human life, school prayer, busing, and they voted for decades again and again for candidates who represented their values who promised them action on their items only to be overturned in courts. this frustration goes back to the 1960s and '70s and '80s, and there's been a long time building this understanding and infrastructure on the long side. >> this is what lindsey graham had to say about that. >> donald trump, josh washington, john marshal and they couldn't get through. maybe a handful of democrats will vote for a trump pick because they have to politically. this is nightmare for red state democrats to have to pick a highly qualified nominee. main stream judges and so red

state democrats are going to have very hard decision, and hope every republican will rally behind these picks because they're all about standing. >> paul kaine, how little is the vice that red state democrats are in right now in the senate? >> it's particularly tight for joe mansion in west virginia, had i had had i had had i haddy heidi height kchl. this is going to become an issue that's going to be a dividing line and it could rally the conservative base there to come out for his republican opponent marcy. it's a dicy move for three or four of them right now. >> and play that out kind of in the long-term. let's say a couple of democrats

do break, what happen tuesday the divide in the democratic party? >> it depends if they provide the margin of victory. right now we're a year a half into the trump administration, and there's only been one nominee who has actually gotten over 50 because of democratic support. that was cia director haskell. so if joe mansion and joe donnelly from indiana and someone else in a tough race, if they provided votes as 50-51 as susan collins and lisa murkowski were voting no, that would setoff a mini nuclear bomb within the democratic party. but if every republican votes yes and they're just adding a little bit to the margin of victory, it won't be as big an issue. >> so in some ways they're hoping that the republicans stick together and make their lives a little bit easier. michael steel, do you think the

president is going to listen to mitch mcconnell on who to pick here? >> yeah, i certainly hope so. it always comes down to gut and you always have last minute surprises, but it looks like senator mcconnell is as he usually does is making a smart call here. it's on those red state democrats that we especially mitch mcconnell and senate republicans desperately want to beat in november. when we return we're going to talk about the break down in reuniting migrant children separated from their parents and a 1-year-old boy who got his day in court. you like to be in control. especially when it comes to important stuff.

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i we worked with pg&eof to save energy because wenie. wanted to help the school. they would put these signs on the door to let the teacher know you didn't cut off the light. the teachers, they would call us the energy patrol. so they would be like, here they come, turn off your lights! those three young ladies were teaching the whole school about energy efficiency. we actually saved $50,000.

and that's just one school, two semesters, three girls. together, we're building a better california. about three weeks ago president trump signed an executive order ending the administration's policy of separating migrant children from their parents. but now we're learning that only half of the approximately 100 children under the age of 5 that are being held will be reunited with their parents by a july 10th deadline. in a status update with a judge

on -- in other cases uncertainty about the parents identities. some parents have been deported and others have been freed in the united states apparently without a system to monitor everyone's whereabouts. meanwhile just today the aclu confirmed the trump administration turned over a list of names of the nearly 100 children under the age of 5. that move comes tomorrow with extending the deadline for reuniting those children with their families. my cellphone in my pocket is tracking every single move that i make, so how the hell could our government have lost these

childr children? >> cattle men in texas track their cattle with better mordality thmor delty that our government is tracking these kids. the government is separating these kids from their parents at the border and putting no track in place so they know which child belongs to which parent. it's almost as though our government had no intention of returning these kids to their parents. >> what options does the court have? they've set this deadline. it's pretty clear the government is not going to be able to meet the deadline. they can't throw the human health and services department in jail. what's the recourse there? >> that's an interesting point. the court actually can hold people in contempt. it can bring attorney general sessions in contempt. but he's turned over a list of kids to the aclu perhaps thinking that the aclu may be in a better position to reunite

children than the government that took them away from their parents. >> really astonishing. i also want to share this remarkable section from an associated press report. it says quote a 1-year-old boy in a green button up shirt drank middlic from a bottle and occasionally asked for augua. then it was the child's turn -- quote i'm embarrassed to ask it because i don't know who you would explain it to unless you think that a 1-year-old could learn immigration law the judge told the lawyer representing the 1-year-old boy. 1-year-old, can you imagine a 1-year-old in a courtroom being asked if he understands what's

going on? there's also this from the pbs news hour earlier this week. >> this is from a mother whose 14-month old child was separated from her and from the father. they were reunited after 85 days. she wrote, the child continued to cry when we got home and would hold onto my leg and would not let me go. when i took off his clothes he was full of dirt and lice. it seemed they had not bathed him the 85 days he was away from us. >> some excellent reporting from lisa, a colleague of mine on capitol hill. michael steel, i want to go back to the origins of this policy. which if you listen to those in the trump administration who are being honest and straightforward about where it came from, it was to deter people from doing this. we're going to do this and convince people not to come. this type of policy and its resulted impact is so far from where we were ten years ago when we were talking about

republicans and you needed to be actually be able to talk to latino voters if you had any hope for political survival. where the hell are we? >> it's an absolute tragedy. we're in awful place, where a poorly conceived policy has resulted in images of astonishing callus brutality here in the united states which a national shame. and i think the bigger point and larger point is because our institutions, the presidency, the courts and the congress have not successfully grappled with the challenge of securing our border and providing with a sensible and orderly immigration system. it's been 12 years since the last serious attempt or for the beginning of the first modern attempt to rehave our immigration laws and subsequent attempts in '06, '07, '12, '13

have all failed. we have not dealt with properly in a decade. when we come back congressman jim jordan accused of turning a blind eye to the sexual abuse of a doctor who coached the ohio state wrestling team. and he fires back. we're going to talk about that next. ask if xeljanz xr is right for you. xeljanz xr is a once-daily pill for psoriatic arthritis. taken with methotrexate or similar medicines, it can reduce joint pain, swelling, and significantly improve physical function. xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections, lymphoma, and other cancers have happened. don't start xeljanz xr if you have an infection. tears in the stomach or intestines, low blood cell counts, and higher liver tests and cholesterol levels have happened. your doctor should perform blood tests before you start and while taking xeljanz xr,

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allegations that congressman jim jordan turned a blind eye to sexual abuse during his time as assistant wrestling coach at the university. jordan worked for the team from 1986 until 1994. four wrestlers told nbc news he would have known, and one says he told jordan directly. that makes at least seven people who now say jordan had to know about the frequent abuse that they endured at the hands of the team doctor. richard strauss, who has since died. for "the washington post" the latest person to come forward said, quote, everyone joked about it it all the time. and he often said strauss took showers with the team, staying an hour after it was done. and quote, sexually aggressive men who worked there or attended the school and he watched the wrestlers in the shaunas and saunas. one former coach described the

culture to politico as a quote, cesspool of deviancy. mark coleman told "the wall street journal," quote, there's no way unless he's got dementia or something that he's got no recollection of what was going on at ohio state. quote, i've got nothing but respect for this man but he knew as far as i'm concerned. but others have rushed to jordan's defense including former coaches and student wrestlers. some telling the washington examiner that jordan would have been incapable of ignoring abuse. jordan has maintained he knew nothing about the alleged abuse and suggests the story may have surfaced simply because of politics. >> i never saw, never heard of, never was told of any type of abuse. if i had been, i would have dealt with it. our coaching staff, we would have dealt with it. these are student athletes. a good coach puts of the interest of his student athletes first. no one ever reported any abuse to me. if they had, i would have dealt

with it. and what bothers me the most is the guys that are saying this thing, i know they know the truth. i think the timing is suspect. from when you thing about how this whole story came together after the rosenstein interview or hearing, with this whole talk about the speakers race. but it is just not accurate. >> ohio state is investigating dr. strauss, and that investigation actually undertaken by an outside law firm that jordan has also attacked. michael steel, to what we just saw him talking about, he did acknowledge that there was locker room talk. he said it was different than abuse. but something doesn't smell quite right here. >> no, i mean this is long time ago. standards of conversation were different. we should acknowledge that while at the same time recognizing that abuse is abuse. it is the requirement, the responsibility of someone in a position of authority as mr. jordan was to take it seriously,

whether or not it is portrayed as a joke, whether or not it's portrayed as a kind of chuckling sort of thing. and he seems not to have at least according to many of these folks coming forward. and that's a problem. >> paul kaine, can you sort of put in context for us what wrestling and the ohio state wrestling program would mean to jim jordan? >> jim jordan's political identity was really kind of formed in his days as a high school wrestler and can legolle wrestler. it is also increasingly become more of a rural and ei white sport. and that is what founded his identity. the jordan family has produced more state champions in ohio wrestling in high school than any family at all. it is -- to go after him on wres

llg ing is kind of like his crypt nite. >> the credible punch in the gut. we'll be back right after this. okay you gotta be kidding me. hold on, don't worry, there's another way. directions to the greek theater. (beep) ♪can i get a connection? ♪can i get can i get a connection?♪ ♪ohhh can i get a connection? ♪trying find the old me (man)(woman) beautiful just like you. (woman) oh, why thank you. [both scream] (burke) coupe soup. and we covered it. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪

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be putting his country and family first, who stripped his title as donald trump's attorney from his twitter page, and who hired clinton veteran lanny davis. davis has not only preached the gospel of tell it early, tell it all, tell yourself, he literally wrote the book. what remains to be seen is the extent to which cohen will cooperate with the ongoing federal investigations, which other longtime trump attorneys have predicted he would do for months. >> i think in many ways, and it's difficult to say this, prison has a racial overtone. and a person like michael doesn't see himself walking down broadway while people are clamoring, you're going to be my wife. and so, he's under pressure from his family to try to figure out what it would take to bring the government aboard as his sponsor. >> okay, so, some of those

content of those comments aside, rudy giuliani was on talk shows saying if michael cohen tells the truth, he'd have nothing to worry about. i read that as sort of like a warning, in a way, because they're saying, well -- or at least that they're setting him up to be a liar, if, in fact, he does provide damaging information on the president. >> and you know that's exactly what they'll do. cohen will be the newest coffee boy. nothing that he says will be the truth, according to president trump and his team. but the real question here is whether or not prosecutors are interested in talking to cohen. you know, they've only just gotten their hands on 1.3 million items that were seized in the search, so they have their work cut out for them. but as of yet, there hasn't been any indication that prosecutors are interested in cohen cooperating. that will likely turn on the information he might have to share with them. >> so, essentially, this only really benefits michael cohen if he has something on the president. >> that's the truth, and that's how cooperation works. you have to have something to offer prosecutors so that they can make cases on other people. >> fascinating.

when we return, what to watch for in the week ahead. i like chillaxin. the new united explorer card makes things easy. traveling lighter. taking a shortcut. (woooo) taking a breather. rewarded! learn more at theexplorercard.com

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marky mark wahlberg, the 21-year-old rapper from boston who rose to fame as part of marky mark and the funky bunch struck a pose from hip-hop culture, pants low and his calvin kleins exposed. >> mark wahlberg is a guy who always embraced hip-hop culture, always. always. of course, he wore his pants

where they would hang low. that's the way hip-hop culture wore their pants. >> this week "story of cool" explores iconic marketing campaigns and looks at how the industry tapped into the universal desire to be cool. the new series, executive produced by ll cool j, airs after "kasie dc" here on msnbc. before we go, let's talk about the week ahead. i had no idea i was going to be thinking about marky mark. paul kaine, what are you watching for in the week ahead? >> other than to see which of my first place philadelphia phillies got snubbed from the all-star game, um -- >> oh. >> which will be here in d.c., a week from now. what i'm looking for is who the nominee's going to be and where they went to law school, because three of the four finalists did not go to an ivy league law school. and if trump picks any of those three, they will be the first and only -- well, they will be

the only non-ivy leaguer on the court, if they get confirmed. >> very interesting. joyce, what are you watching? >> paul manafort filed a motion friday evening to move the location for his trial from alexandria in the eastern district of virginia to roanoke. of course, alexandria voted 2-1 for hillary. roanoke is just about the opposite, very conservative. looking forward to seeing whether the judge will entertain moving the trial or not. >> michael steele, what are you watching? >> first i'm going to watch piquet on "story of cool." before that, an incredibly groundbreaking supreme court pick will get almost completely ignored by the two days after it's announced because of the incredible flurry of foreign travel and consequential foreign travel president trump will be making right after making this announcement. >> and we hardly touched on pompeo's somewhat, it seems, disastrous trip to north korea, as well as -- >> or london or -- >> putin meeting. >> helsinki, yeah. >> honestly, this week i think this jim jordan story is

fascinating, both the next turn of any fallout with the wrestling allegations and also his questioning of peter strzok, said to be in public this week. that's it for kasie dc" tonight. we'll be back next week from 7:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. eastern. for now, goodnight from washington. this is an msnbc special series. >> two, two, three -- ♪ >> cool. if you could only define it. >> define it would diminish what cool is. >> find it. >> everybody's trying to sell you cool. most of the time it don't work. you can't measure, you can't market. it is what it is. >> catch it. >> i just don't actually think cool exists. i don't think it's actually a thing. >> you could make a killing. >> cool equals dollars. >> sounds like you're off to a good start. >> that's the eternal quest for those who try to capture cool.