"morning joe." it is monday, july 9th. with us we have msnbc contributor mike barnacle and the president of the council on foreign relations and author of the book "a world in disarray" richard haass and the host of kasie-dc on msnbc kasie hunt. very good. you're doing well. >> thank you. >> we need to talk. >> world cup, boston red sox. >> no, we were watching kasie, d.c. >> it's difficult to overpoint the emphasis tonight he names his nominee. >> you have any ideas? >> i do. a off to europe on tuesday for a

meeting with the same nato allies he's ridiculed for months. he literally shoved the liter of montenegro at last year's summit. we'll see how this one goes. >> that's quite a moment. >> and there was this stair down with angela merkel at the g7 and an unprecedented attack by an american administration against canada. >> well, you know why? >> why? >> well, because they're stealing our shoes and they're scuffing them up. >> i hate it when that happens. >> is that what he said, richard, the president of the united states said the canadians are stealing our shoes and scuffing them. >> nation of shoe scuffers. >> so they will sound old. they send them across the border. >> stop. >> no, really, that's what he said. >> i know that's what he said. he is scuffing the shoes to make them sound old. >> just weird. then it's off -- >> he lifted that straight from

fdr in '43. >> a british woman died yesterday in the uk from the same poison that struck a former russian double agent in march. trump travels to london to meet with theresa may who condemned him last year for sharing anti-muslim videos on twitter. after a weekend stop at his scottish golf course, the president heads to finland for a one-on-one meeting with none other than his old pal, vladimir putin. no secretary of state, no national security adviser, no one from the pentagon just donald trump alone with the russian president. >> isn't that interesting? richard haass, fascinating that we're about to talk about all of the legal problems that people close to donald trump have had because of improper contacts with russians that they then lied about, but donald trump in

front of us all has told everybody to get away. he wants to have a secret meeting with vladimir putin, without any of his staff members there. how unusual is that? >> and what could go wrong? >> it's beyond unusual. you often have small meetings. i worked for presidents. usually the president and his opposite number and one staffer, most often the national security adviser. that would be the small meeting. then you have the larger meeting and each side would have six or ten people. >> this is unprecedented. you don't do this. >> last time it was done was singapore. we'll talk later. we'll be likely dealing for a long time with the fallout of that. >> and by the way, we are going to be talking about north korea later, but the meeting this weekend went terribly, regardless of what the secretary of state said. the north koreans are back to calling us gangsters, back to attacking us and fools rush in. donald trump rushed in.

not only made a fool of himself, hurt the united states terribly. >> going back to putin for a second. this meeting of all meetings, given the stakes, given the political backdrop, you really need a careful record for followup. you need to document what putin said. you would want to document what the president said. the consequences here of the united states and russia whether it's over ukraine, syria, we could talk about the specific issues of the two having the same kind of reaction of the united states and north korea where you essentially have two different read outs of the meeting is really dangerous. >> it's almost as if mike, he has something to hide. >> break it down a little further, richard. there's no note taker in this meeting? >> no. because the interpreters are busy interpreting. they do not take notes. >> there's no record of the meeting. >> again, for people at home that want to act like this is normal because they want to act like what donald trump is doing is normal, it's not normal at all. the only reason you do this is

because you didn't want people in the united states of america to know what you were saying. it reminds me of an oval office meeting he had where he didn't allow any american press in, where he told the ambassador from russia to the united states and russia's foreign minister that he had just fired the fbi director and not to worry about it, the pressure was going to be off, that it was all taken care of. >> exactly. we'll dig deeper into it. back here at home, staying on track here, his former campaign chairman sits in prison. his trade war is claiming its first victims. rudy giuliani is back on tv, which is -- >> oh my goodness. >> incredible. the north korean talks are unraveling. and thousands of parents still have no idea what the u.s. government did with their children. just let that sit for a second. that happened in this country. and it's still happening. >> so let's start with the

nuclear deal with north korea. the deal that is easier to talk about, which donald trump loves to do, than actually getting done. >> can't be executed. >> it was just over three weeks ago when donald trump tweeted there's no longer a nuclear threat from north korea. let me repeat that, donald trump telling americans there's no longer a threat, nuclear threat, from north korea. adding, quote, sleep well tonight. >> all right. well, following meetings with secretary of state mike pompeo, north korean state media called the talks, quote, regrettable. while accusing the u.s. of making, quote, gangster-like demands and calling for complete, verifiable and irreversible denuclearization, pompeo, who did not meet with kim jong-un during his latest trip to the country, hit back at the north korean statement yesterday. >> we had lengthy discussions about what complete denuclearization means.

it's a broad definition of denuclearization and north koreans understand that and have not challenged that. they also understand that denuclearization makes no sense absent verification and acknowledged that as well. i'm counting on chairman kim to be determined to follow through on the commit that time he made. and so if those requests for gangster like, the world is a gangster because there was a unanimous decision at the u.n. security council about what needs to be achieved. >> mike pompeo, very smart man. >> yep. >> dealt a very bad hand of cards, a horrific hand of cards, but he's doing what he needs to do. certainly glad he's there instead of somebody else, certain other people. but, we all heard what he just said. he's depending on chairman kim. depending on chairman kim, a man from a tyrannical communist family who has lied to five, six american presidents and building up their nuclear program.

listen, we know how this story ends. we predicted. donald trump wanted cheap headlines. the north koreans wanted legitimacy. they both get what they wanted. and now north korea is done. what else does north korea have to do? and so we ask for the same thing that donald trump claimed he was asking for several weeks ago. and now we're, quote, gangsters. >> he has been made a fool of. >> the only question is how the administration reacts. north korea never had objective to denuclearize. do we modify and try to go for smaller gains or ratchet this up to where we are on a march towards potentially war. we know one thing that will not have is complete, verifiable denuclearization. the question is what happens at home? >> there are some rules in

physics. i never took a science class. >> he's got the rules. >> i had to get eight credit hours in under grad, so i took two classes. my first was biology, we all had to take. the last one was geography, which i thought was coloring in maps. it wasn't. oh my god. but there are certain rules. physics, certain rules also in politics. there's certain rules in diplomacy. donald trump thinks that he can shatter those rules and he go goes -- i've done this my whole life. everybody cheers. i don't know why they cheer. he might as well say i'm eating dog doo because it means about the same thing. he's never done this before, mike. >> come on. >> and this reminds me of what we've talked about here since january the 20th, 2017. and that is this, the trump administration, which means donald trump and a couple of people around him, believe -- >> who clap at everything he

says. >> who clap at everything he says. everything is going great. believe that the world began on january 20th, 2017. they believed they were going to bring us middle east peace in our time. now they've moved the embassy to jerusalem, which fine. but not if you're going to bring us middle east peace. they're saying you can't trust the palestinian leader. so get him out of the way. and we are further from middle east peace than we've ever been because guess what, the weight of history fell on the weight of 1967 fell on them, the weight of 1973 fell on them, the weight of everything that's happened over the past 50 or 60 years, the history they don't read has happened. it's the same thing with north korea now. are they shocked, mike? no. >> no, they're not shocked.

>> they're just dumb. they're ignorant and choose to remain ignorant by not understanding that they are actually not even repeating the mistakes the past leaders of america have made -- >> they wouldn't know about those. >> they wouldn't know about those. they're actually doing it much faster. >> they live in their own self-defined bubble. the interesting -- well, first of all, remember, trade wars are easy to win. >> trade wars are so easy to win except the canadians scuff shoes so they'll sound old. >> the interesting thing about the north korean stuff is that you can clearly see if you think about it for just a second, this is now pompeo's deal, not trump's deal. they're going to hang this on pompeo. mike pompeo is going to wear this. >> well, the danger of that is if that actually comes to pass that they'll say then we tried diplomacy and diplomacy failed. then what? so one of the dangers is that -- i think it's really a choice of this president. does he continue to embrace, quote unquote, his success? or does he basically say mike

pompeo failed. kim jong-un betrayed me and maybe john bolton was right all along. that will be the decision point for this administration. and it's coming. >> so let's bring in senior adviser and korea chair at cias. what are our options, if any? >> i bet you're sorry you're not in seoul now, victor. >> the interesting thing is the natural thing to do now would be to go to china and say to the chinese, look, we tried diplomacy. we need you to put more economic regime to get them to be more come compliant in the negotiations. we can't do that because we're in a trade war with china. you go to nato and say, all of you must keep the sanctions on north korea and we must come with a very strong united

statement that north korea needs to denuclearize, provide a declaration, inventory all their weapons and allow verification. he is going to go to nato and pick on nato allies and saying you're not paying enough. you're not paying enough. the other thing and richard knows this well, the other collateral damage of this meeting was that we cancelled, secretary pompeo cancelled a two plus two with india. two plus twos are very difficult to schedule. it's meant to upgrade the u.s./india relationship. we postponed that to do this meeting. it was a big nothing burger. >> kasie hunt is in washington and has a question for you, victor. >> you paint a very bleak picture of all of these interconnected consequences of this president. my question i suppose for you is one focus especially for members of congress has been the military exercises with south korea that we cancelled from what it seems to me without basically getting anything in

return. is there any hay to be made there? is that a tool that the president has at his disposal? or would reversing on that essentially throw everything into chaos? >> yeah. so two very important points. the first is going forward we cannot start giving away more of these alliance equities because donald trump gets desperate that he wants to get some movement on this issue. the second is that we can reschedule exercises, maybe it's too late for planning for ufg, the big exercise in august, but we can continue different types of exercises, smaller scale, that again just help to re-enforce the readiness of our alliance and our alliance partners to deal with any potential provocations by north korea. >> wow. victor cha, thank you very much for being on this morning. now to the russia investigation where president trump's legal team continued to put off the possibility of an interview with special counsel robert mueller with the president's lawyers setting new

conditions for the sitdown. rudy giuliani told "the new york times," quote, if they can come to us and show us the basis and that it's legitimate and that they have uncovered something, we can go from there and assess their objectivity. giuliani urged the special counsel -- >> don't you like that, somebody that's being investigated says, show us the cards in your hands. we're setting the terms. then we will decide whether you're being objective or not, when of course they're all panicking, rudy lead panicer, made the president look foolish yesterday. he might as well just worn something on his forehead saying we're scared to death of cohen because they have completely lost their nerve. >> giuliani urged the special counsel to wrap up his inquiry and write an investigative report, saying that trump's lawyers plan to write their own summary of the case. giuliani addressed the subject again yesterday calling the probe the most corrupt he had

ever seen. >> have you simply determined that the president is not going to sit down? >> we have not. we're close to determining that. george, he wants to testify. he believes -- >> it's hard to believe that any more, mr. major. >> it is hard to believe that how tainted this investigation is. this is the most corrupt investigation i have ever seen, that the justice department is allowing to go forward. >> it would be breath taking if he had not beclowned himself such a long time ago. he will tell you that he's been knighted by the queen of england. the queen of england would probably tell you she wishes she could have her knighthood back. but since rudy mentioned most corrupt. let's look at some examples of corruption. after about a year and a half in the white house, here is a snapshot of donald trump and his administration that rudy giuliani is claiming to be this moral beacon for the rest of the world.

robert mueller's investigations brought charges against four ex-trump advisers, top trump political advisers, including his former campaign chief who is now sitting in jail after allegations of witness tampering after his own indictments on fraud, false statements and foreign laundering of money, yeah. that's what you call corrupt, rudy. or maybe the fact that his ex-national security adviser, michael flynn, pleaded guilty to lying to investigators, top campaign aide and transition official rick gates also pleaded to conspiracy and lying to investigators and foreign policy adviser george papadopoulos pleaded guilty to misleading investigators about, you guessed it, his contacts with the bulgarians? no, with the russians claiming to have dirt on clinton. some, four of donald trump's hand-picked ex-advisers, one of his lawyers, one of his digital marketing strategists, 14

russian nationalists, three russian companies and five guilty pleas in all, all connected to donald trump, his campaign, his organization, the election of 2016. now three months ago today federal investigators raided the office of the president's long-time fixer michael cohen. donald trump called disgraceful, an attack on our country. funny, that's not what cohen said. cohen said the fbi treated him with the utmost respect. the court items said the items that were seized were all fair game and yielded 1.3 million items of material for the government. that's almost all of it fair game. and cohen helped buy the silence of a porn star in the final weeks of 2016 election, which the president denied knowledge of until his lawyers said he funneled the money to cohen and cohen was involved in another woman who became pregnant and didn't want to continue with it. turning to the president's

business within weeks of the election, the president paid $25 million in the trump university class action lawsuit because people said they were bilked by his promises. corrupt, rudy? have you had enough yet. easily the most corrupt president the first year and a half of his presidency. easily. but the corruption it continues rudy. this is a counselor to the president urged tv viewers to go buy ivanka's stuff. go buy ivanka's stuff. and did it from the white house lawn. now i'm sure some people out there say that's much ado about nothing. well, only if government ethics is much ado about nothing. a lot of other people would be thrown in jail if they had done the same thing. also as we talk about corrupt, rudy the most corrupt ever, you shouldn't say things about a marine who is a war hero, who served this country ably and

protected us after 9/11, that was him. and unlike you, he hasn't beclowned himself since 9/11. you know, rudy, "the washington post" blew apart trump's claims about giving millions of the dollars to charity, finding less than $10,000 over a seven-year period. he even hung on to money donated for veterans until reporters pressured him to actually give it to veterans. his campaign manager allegedly directed the use of some foundation money before the iowa caucuses. leading new york attorney general to sue to dissolve it and the palm beach post reports that trump's foundation donated over 700,000 to charities who then turned around and put the money right back into trump's pocket. raiding his florida club. some, rudy, would call that corrupt and a misuse of power.

but you know, rudy, there's so much corruption to go around and you brought this up, you opened the door, so let's all just merrily walk through this monday morning. back to the investigation, forbes has been uncovering wilbur ross who is saying his signed statements claiming to die vest in stocks were actually just misunderstandings. that's when he was awake. administration officials says he's only good 11:00 a.m. in the morning then he starts to nod off. but let me tell you, in those hours that he's still awake, the corruption swirls all around him. senators have asked for an investigation into insider trading based on their reporting. then of course there's interior secretary ryan zinky who spent $139,000 on three sets of doors in his office. yes, friends, you, too, can have not only his gold collection but also three doors, three doors

for $139,000. oh, wait, you can't because that's coming from your pockets. that's your hard earned tax dollars. you work hard so this corrupt administration can buy three doors for $140,000. now, zinky denied having a role and a friend from his montana hometown getting a $300 million contract to restore power to puerto rico. >> where 5,000 people died. >> if you don't remember that, there's good reason because this is the most corrupt administration in the history of our life time, certainly over the first year and a half. we can'tfect h.h.s. secretary tom price. he billed you for dozens of private jets before he resigned. then of course there's scott pruitt, used your taxpayer and taxpayer money as no object in the pursuit of luxury living. before reporters caught on,

pruitt flew exclusively first class and sent aides on personal tasks like searching for a $200,000 a year salary for his wife or a used trump hotel mattress and also that chick-fil-a franchise he wanted for his wife. pruitt saw no problem saving money in a sweetheart deal for a condo tied to a lobbyist for business before the epa. they lied about that, by the way, time and time and time again, until reporters, you call it the fake news media they actually uncovered the fake news which was lies from the trump administration. while pruitt is also spending $43,000 for a soundproof booth. fleet of 19 vehicles r, a request for bullet proof seat cover and 19 agent security detail who he tasked with picking up his dry cleaning and fetching fancy lotion from the ritz carlton. by the way, we didn't even talk about, we didn't even talk about the president's hotels and the

millions and millions and millions of dollars he has made from people trying to get on the right side of this administration. that will go down in history, rudy. i so thank you for opening the door. >> yeah. >> and talking about the most corrupt because we certainly know that robert mueller is not corrupt. we certainly know he's a marine, a war hero, a guy who like donald trump didn't skip out on serving this country, claiming deferments and bone spurs. of course, robert mueller was fighting in the jungles of vietnam while donald trump was graduating from an ivy league university on the same day that dozens of americans were killed. we know. we know who is corrupt here. we know who is not corrupt here. we just want to thank you for reminding us of all the corrupt

things, the guy that you're shaming yourself for, is engaged in over the past year and a half. here is the amazing thing, it's only a year and a half. rudy, you know how things get when somebody is out of power. can you imagine what we're going to find about donald trump when he's out of the white house? and you're out there shilling for him, attacking an american hero, attacking a vietnam hero, attacking the men and women of the justice department, attacking the men and women of the fbi, attacking the men and women, the professionals who every single day are working around the clock to keep all of us, taxpayers across america, safe. good job, rudy. still ahead on s"morning joe," we'll talk to michael schmidt, coming up, there's a remarkable rescue mission in thailand to free the stranded boys from a flooded cave. four have been saved so far.

and the mission continues right now. plus, a judge in arizona could hardly believe what he was really supposed to question a 1-year-old child who drank from a bottle of milk and played with a purple ball during an immigration proceeding. that toddler is one of hundreds still separated from their parents. >> by the way, i hope we have the story, alex. i hope we have the story that on friday a judge asked if one of trump's lawyers, one of the government lawyers, could stay out and work through the weekend to help unite these children with their parents, these babies with their parents, these toddlers with their parents, the infant with their parents. and the response was, according to the reports i saw, no. i have dog sitting duties back in washington. i have to go back home. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. covering virtually every part of your healthcare business. so that if she has a heart problem

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breaking news from thailand, there are reports that a fifth boy has been rescued from that cave in thailand this morning. rescue efforts resumed more than six hours ago for the remaining eight boys and their soccer coach, who have been trapped for more than two weeks now. joining us live from thailand, nbc news correspondent janis mackey frayer. what's the latest, janis? >> reporter: well, this second phase of the operation got under way about 6 and a half hours ago. and if confirmed, if there is this fifth boy who has come out, then this mission appears to be gaining pace. there are reports that an ambulance with sirens going has take an boy from that staging area near the cave's entrance. following the protocol, he'll put on a helicopter at the end of this street and taken by ambulance to the hospital behind me. the boys are kept in a special isolation unit so they can be medically assessed. they're not allowed physical contact with their families yet,

probably not for one to two day. officials are saying that things are going well there. they're dealing with less water in the cave system. they seem to be satisfied with the stability of the oxygen environment. and they did take several hours to make sure that their oxygen canisters were replenished from last night's mission. mika? >> janis mackey frayer, thank you very much. keep us posted. we'll be watching that. let's turn back now to the rudy giuliani comments. joining us now, michael schmidt, new york times reporter. you have new reporting how trump's legal team shifted their conversations with special counsel mueller. of course rudy, the comments were focussed on him calling the investigation corrupt. michael? >> so, if you take a larger look at what's gone on since april when rudy came on, they've become much more aggressive publicly and privately with mueller. the white house has basically tried to put guardrails on an interview with john kelly before under the previous regime of the

president's lawyers they would allow any white house official to meet with the special counsel's office. they provided them with a lot of documents. this is the new body posture and we see it playing out constantly with rudy who goes out and throws a lot of different things at the wall for the president on the investigation. >> and what about what john dowd told "the new york times," specifically about swinging public opinion? >> well, so what has gone on here is that the president's lawyers have concluded that the only threat that they think he has is impeachment. they don't think he will be indictmented by mueller. they don't think he has any other exposure. what they have tried to do is move public opinion in their favor because they realize that the only thing that they could really face is a vote in the house of representatives. and that vote would be based on the public sentiment. if you look at polls that came out or one that came out at the end of last week, the

favorability for the president in this has really increased. there are a lot of questions out there about mueller. 45% of the country saying they have an unfavorable view of the special counsel's investigation up 14 points from january. that's a significant movement for the president on this issue. and they think if rudy continues to pound the way he has publicly they can continue to erode any type of confidence there is in the investigation. >> mike barnacle. >> michael, giuliani indicated that he and the defense team have interviewed everyone who mueller and his team have interviewed. according to your reporting, do you think that's accurate? >> i'm not sure that that's true. i don't think the president's lawyers sat down and actually interviewed many of these officials. what i think has gone on is there are often discussions between the lawyers for witnesses and the president's lawyers through these joint defense agreements in which they learn some insights into what is discussed in the meetings with

mueller. but i find it hard to believe that the lawyers would allow for their clients, the witnesses, to sit down with the president's lawyers to be interviewed. i haven't seen much evidence of that. >> kasie? >> mike, is your sense of the legal team's view of a potential showdown over his testimony something that they think that they could win? as in, do they think that getting into a back and forth over a subpoena to get his testimony would be something that they could win in the court of public opinion as well? are they trying to avoid that entirely? >> they think it's a coin flip whether they could win it or not. they think it's basically 50/50. what it would do, let's say if mueller said, okay, enough of this back and forth. we have tomorrow the negotiations over this interview have been going on for six months. the president's lawyers said they're two weeks away from a decision multiple times over that period of time. if mueller went ahead and subpoenaed the president, there would be a fight in court and ultimately go up to the supreme court. and from the president's side, allot of folks think that's a

good thing for him because it would bring this argument even more into the public and it would make it even more of an issue and mueller would have to sort of defend his investigation and face the risk of losing a subpoena fight and not being able to compel the president to testify. now, on the other hand, if you're mueller and you're doing an investigation into the president's intent, what was the president's intent when he fired comey, what was his intent when he took all these different measures in regards to obstruction, you would really need to know what's in his mind. mueller told dowd earlier this year that he needs to ask the president why did he do these things? if mueller is going to finish that investigation, you would think he would want to question the president about it. >> michael schmidt, thank you so much for being with us. as always, we really, really appreciate it. >> mike, i'm reminded at the end of one of the great scenes in movies, end of "absence of malice" where sitting there talking about subpoenas.

they're wonderful things. we could talk about it here or we could go up and give the judge a subpoena. you could start talking then. they all started talking. mueller can get one of those subpoenas. and the united states supreme court going to say looked good to us. i mean -- >> maybe. >> they will. this is the curt flood example. >> yeah. >> you never want to test it out because if you do then you open up free agency for everybody. if there's a smart lawyer around donald trump, he will say, we do not want to start a series of challenges that we will lose. >> well, he has a smart lawyer, joe. emmet flood is a smart lawyer. >> who knows that just as bill clinton was forced to testify, related to a relationship with an intern, chances are good the supreme court is going to give

an independent counsel appointed by the justice department an opportunity to talk to the president of the united states under oath in this case as it pertains to the 2016 election and what the president -- >> and our national security. >> obstruction of justice and our national security and russia trying to interfere in the 2016 race. >> we have two tracks going on here. you just referred to both of them. you have emmet flood internally in the white house a very smart lawyer knowing that his client the president of the united states, ought not ever to testify before bob mueller. and you've got rudy giuliani on the outside playing a very public track a foolish track. the internal intention at some point within the white house between the two lawyers -- >> i can't even imagine. >> emmet flood, from everything we heard a very, very, competent bright attorney. he knows at the end of the day the supreme court is going to allow mueller to sit down and talk to him. >> sure. >> so you don't want to

challenge. you don't want to challenge mueller on this because mueller will win it. >> all right. >> be careful what you wish for. >> there is that. still ahead -- >> i do wonder, though, what does donald trump think, mika? no, about having this attorney. he's done it yet again. he surrounded himself with an attorney who thinks that he's too stupid to sit down with robert mueller just because mueller went to princeton, was a st. paul's guy. >> he's really smart. >> he is. >> yeah. >> but the president says he's smart, too. >> i know. and that he relies on his own brain for advice. >> but again, he's got an attorney who thinks he's too stupid to sit down man to man, across the table with robert mueller. i know donald trump didn't go to an ivy league school for four years and maybe he's really insecure about that.

but i wouldn't think he would be scared. why is he so scared to sit down across the table from robert muler? does he think that mueller is that much smarter than he is? does he think he's so stupid. everybody around donald trump thinks that he's so stupid -- >> that he shouldn't talk. >> that if he talks that robert mueller would trick him. again, if i'm president of the united states, president of the united states, and everybody thought he was too stupid to get elected president of the united states. >> look at him. >> now he has people around him as president of the united states who thinks that donald trump is too dumb, is too stupid, too idiotic to sit down across the table from robert mueller. if i'm president of the united states, i would be insulted by that. richard, would you be insulted by that if you had people working for you who thought you were too stupid to sit down to talk to robert mueller? no, you wouldn't. exactly. mike, would you work with people who thought you were too stupid to sit down and talk to robert

mueller. >> you know, i think many people around the president totally misread bob mueller. >> that's not the question i asked. if you had people who worked for you who thought you were too stupid. >> might be right in my case. >> if i were donald trump, i know he went to st. paul's. and i know donald trump didn't. i know that he went to princeton and donald trump didn't go to an ivy league school couple years. warton is a great school. he only got into for two years. his dad gave money or something. i don't know. he says donald trump is really smart. if you're president of the united states and surrounded by people who think you're too stupid to talk to robert mueller, there might be time to get rid of those people. >> there's not a lot there. >> is there nothing that donald trump can do to prove that he's not dumb to these people that he hires? >> well, they keep leaving, you know.

still ahead -- >> i think he's smart enough to talk to robert mueller. >> he's quick on his feet and all. >> you saw him at the rallies. have you seen him at the rall s rallies? >> he makes perfect sense. >> he draws all those people. all those people know he's smart. do you think those people that he talks to thinks he's too stupid. no, be a man. do you think he's not going to be a man because some pointy headed liberal lawyer that he hired, whoever it may be in there, saying he's too dumb to talk to robert muler? makes me sad. >> we shall see. >> it's not that. >> yeah? >> he knows that he would shrink in front of mueller because mueller is everything he ever wanted to be. >> no, no, no, no. donald trump, he will tell you, he's smart. still ahead, president trump is expected to announce his supreme court pick. >> i would be so insulted. you're too dumb, joe to talk to anybody. >> according to nbc news, there are four candidates he seriously considering and trump is focussed primarily on two of

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coming up, we'll talk to a

member of the senate foreign relations skmee, chris coons who says he's very concerned about what the president might, quote, give away to vladimir putin during next week's summit. plus, hundreds of children who still need to be reunited with their parents after being separated under the trump administration's zero tolerance policy. one child reportedly appeared in court. that child is 1 years old. "morning joe" will be right back. (vo) we came here for the friends. and we got to know the friends of our friends. and we found others just like us.

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a federal judge's deadline for the trump administration to reunite some of the 3,000 migrant children separated from their parents at the border is scheduled for tomorrow. it comes as officials lost track of some of the parents of those migrant children. lawyers for the government revealed friday they can't locate the parents of 38 migrant children under the age of 5 saying half have been released from custody into the u.s. and their whereabouts are unknown

while the other half have been deported. during that status hearing government lawyers told a southern district of california judge who issued the initial reunification deadline that the health and human services department would only be able to reunite about half of approximately 100 children under the age of 5 by the deadline. the judge said he would agree to delay that deadline for reunifying the children if the government could provide a master list of all children and the status of their parents. the judge has schedule a status conference for later today. one of the government's lawyers said she could not attend the status conference over the matter, over the weekend because she had out of town dog sitting responsibilities. following a call with hhs officials on friday, democratic congressman cummings tweeted he was extremely disappointed with the lack of information they gave to members of congress.

he added that they refused to answer our questions. they do not have a concrete plan to reunite these families. i'm growing more concerned he says for the future of these children. then there's this example of a 1-year-old boy who reportedly appeared in front of an immigration judge in phoenix on friday. according to the associated press he drank from a both. milk, played with a purple ball while waiting for the judge and occasionaly asked for aqua. the judge could hardly contain his one ease with the portion of the hearing when he asked immigrants defendants whether they understand the proceedings. he's asking this to a baby. the judge told the lawyer representing the 1-year-old quote, i'm embarrassed to ask it because i don't know who you explain it to unless you think a 1-year-old could learn immigration law. so at this point, it really

hasn't sunk in this administration had no clue of the impact of this policy. they just did it. they thought they could send a message. in the process they displayed their extreme incompetence. there is no plan to track these people. there's no documentation. you can't find their parents. you couldn't document these children and find a way to track them as you were detaining them and keeping them from their parents? this in the united states of america? the president's lack of humanity, the dhs secretary's lack of humanity. ivanka trump's lack of humanity. melania trump lack of hufmanity. you go to the border some of you not all of you, but some go to the border and ask questions. you have no answers because your

incompetence is staggering. kasie hunt how could members of congress sep up and say this is okay? how could they not speak out? >> they are not arguing it's okay. i don't think any thinking person -- i mean delta airlines can tracheotomy bag wherever it goes with a chip and piece of paper. your cell phone tracks you wherever you go. you can put a gps tag on your dog's collar which is very easy to do and easy to do. we lost parents. this is not -- lawmakers have very little recourse here. their questions are not being answered by this administration. they are calling and saying where are these people, what can we do? they are not getting any answers. they are getting stone called. this was a deliberate policy if you listen to people who are the actual architects of this policy. they said it was to deter people from ever coming here and this

is the result. >> we'll continue this conversation. we'll continue to ask the questions that i think this administration simply cannot answer. coming up, the president narrows his list for supreme court nominees ahead of tonight's announcement. we'll have the latest on that plus nbc's mitandrea mitchell discuss about the president's foreign policy to his meeting one-on-one with vladimir putin and fallout after north korea claimed the u.s. is behaving like gangsters. "morning joe" is coming right back. from the very beginning ...

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appointments available now. to "morning joe". it is monday, july 9th. with us we have mike barnacle, president of the council on foreign relations richard haas. >> richard, what happened? i got your barbecue book. what's the title of it again? >> "a world in disarray." >> we saw some chapters about foreign policy, some about barbecuing. the briket chapter. it did not work for me. >> joe, i tried to explain to you when you barbecue you need to be patient you can't turn the meat over every 20 seconds. sit back and let the barbecue do its thing. >> i'm a little ocd. >> and kasie hunt is with us.

thank you. thank you. and joining the conversation associated editor noah rothman is with us. andrea mitchell is with us. >> andrea, what's wrong with the nats? >> we got a problem. bryce harper is in a slump. reynolds is doing great. >> you know what else you got, andrea? you got the all-star coming up mid-week. you going to it? >> i wish i could. i don't have tickets. >> you need to talk to barnacle. barnacle is our consignor. >> columnist at the examiner, kristen anderson and pulitzer prize winning historian, the

author of "the soul of america." >> i'm well. how are you all? >> what's your view on barbecue? >> well, haas is more a multi-lateralist than i think a lot of people are. but i do think that really look at what george canon did with his pulled pork. you begin to see haas' intellectual origins. >> i still read canon's long letter on pulled pork. it's insightful. >> all right, you guys. >> you have never held a spatula in life. >> andrea mitchell you have a new reporting on north korea

shatters trump's boast fful asse answers of an easy path to denuclearization. >> reporter: north korea is doing what it has also done. they are cheating. they are expanding their nuclear program. so here sarah huckabee sanders announces last week that the secretary of state is going to pyongyang and he's going to meet with kim jong-un. he meets snubbed. he doesn't meet with kim jong-un. kim jong-un, the secretary staff says he never intended to meet with kim jong-un, that was never planned. never planned until that happens that's the way the north does it. he was snubbed. treated terribly. as he was saying that they made progress and were productive and left pyongyang, flying to tokyo to brief the press the north koreans came out and said he was

pursuing gangster-like tactics. and that it was a regrettable meeting and that it had not accomplished anything and they are completely discrediting what had taken place, which is the first meeting, of course, to follow up on the empty promises from singapore. you have the north koreans and president, the president boasting you can sleep well because there's no longer a nuclear threat. how hollow that is. now how does that impact his nato summit and with vladimir putin. >> the great matt lewis, on his podcast this past week sat down with mark who said quote ronald reagan read every book there was to read about the soviets, probably more books than you and i have collectively read about it. he had experts on a regular basis and would quiz them. and we have -- you know reagan,

a lot of miscalculations about reagan about his life, after he died every time he sat down on a plane it was reagan and the note pad and he would be filling up the note pad going through, framing his ideological view not loin of america but of the world. we have donald trump, somebody who has replaced strategic insights and the understanding of need for long pain staking diplomatic process with just bluster. and he believes that bluster and his personal charm will win the day. here's a great example of right now how quickly things have gone south because there was no preparation. there was no insight. >> yeah. i'm starting to get a very familiar and disconcerting vibe that these negotiations where you engage with a rogue state and sort of fall into this diplomatic equivalent of

stockholm syndrome, you become hostage to the process itself. >> hold on. we do. you and i may believe this and nobody else around the table may, but you and i would say barack obama made that mistake with iran. >> absolutely. >> he was so invested in getting a deal that he didn't get the best deal for the united states and the world. >> the biggest objection people had that were opposed there were novi allocations of the deal it was so loose you could perform the kind of acts iran which was the violation of the spirit. officials now say the negotiations are being fruitful, on background they are producing nuclear fuel. it has nothing to do with nuclear weapons. clearly, when donald trump was talking about a denuclearization deal on june 17th and how kim talked about denuclearization with his south korean counterparts, that it was a lie. it was a fraud. there is no progress towards

denuclearization. there's no deal in place. when the administration goes out on background and says they are producing nuclear fuel or developing missile components and that's not a violation of any deal that's correct because no deal exists but they are trying to preserve a status of negotiations going south. >> how old is kim jong-un? >> early 30s. >> so president trump has been made a fool of by a kid 40 years younger than him. the loser is the united states of america and possibly our security. and here what i say are the dangers of the trump doctrine. you can't declare bankruptcy and move on. you can't move on to the next deal. this is the way he plays, putting everything on the table with some kid who is a dictator? what are the options now? >> every president comes into the oval office with an experience and a framing based upon what de. eisenhower the army.

governors, senators. for trump it was a small family business and real estate. he was in a position often to overpower people, take them to court, not pay his bills. >> declare bankruptcy. >> none of this is applicable to what he's doing to people who are truly independent and have strategic foundations and they can just say no or in this case they can say sure and then ignore everything he says or he thinks they might have agreed to. the whole idea that anyone thinks north korea would denuclearize given the lessons they derived from ukraine. why would they give up the very assets -- it's not something we misplayed the summit, it's the entire assumption that we could set the bar this high and we would get everything we wanted and we western going pay anything for it essentially until the end. it's a flat out lie. >> especially post-gadhafi. after getting gadhafi to

surrender his wmd program, and then turning around and being a part of the killing of gadhafi, why would north korea ever do that? john meacham, a history book after this, someone will write the history of the kim family and they will determine that they were the shrewdest negotiators against one day trading president after another day trading president after the greatest trading state president. they had a 40 year plan that has actually ended with a despot from north korea sitting next to a president of the united states with a north korean flag and the american flags lined up

side-by-side by side. this is all they ever wanted. they have been recognized by a president of the united states -- game over. they win. >> yeah. because i live a really exciting life, i decided to rewatch "wag the dog" that movie -- >> 1999, i think. >> there's an amazing moment, rocket de niro is playing a david axelrod figure and he says something, the white house press secretary says it on television, dustin hoffman i think is playing robert evans the producer says that's not true. de niro says of course it's true, i just saw it on tv. that's the trump doctrine. right? there's nothing more complicated

here. he lives in this kind of fantasy world and we're all trapped in it. we're like the kids in a cave to some extent. and the divers won't come. come on, guys. so i think you're right about north korea. as richard knows, one of the things einstein all thought at the beginning of the nuclear age the technology would spread far more rapidly it has. north korea is the ninth or tenth state actor with the bomb, and i think the story of the last 75 years is really kind of remarkable more people haven't armed this way, and the question now is will the north korea example be a kind of a positive example in the way the gadhafi example is a negative one for states to accelerate, because they figure they can tell the

united states anything, flatter the president and move forward without consequence. >> that's a real danger. i've been told "wag the dog" was 1997. by greatest apologies. i also, john, apologize to your wife that she's married to a man who spent the weekend, this weekend watching "wag the dog." whatever. it's a little flat this weekend. >> if you have any money, you contribute to the counselling fund. so, i do wonder how do republicans respond to a president being duped by a tyrannical leader of north korea, after conservatives have spent the past five, six years bla blasting barack obama for his

overtures and i believe the bad deal, bad iran deal and his overtures to cuba. how do conservatives respond to this? how do republicans respond to this that it appears that donald trump has been duped by somebody that they would call a north korean mad man. my god i can't imagine if a democrat were duped this way by kim jong-un. >> you're completely right. in the alternate timeline where the universal is normal republicans are outraged that a president, a different president has gone in and effectively given north korea something that they wanted. richard was talking earlier about the tools that you have available to you when you're a real estate developer to get a deal done, whether it's suing someone, arm twisting of that type of nature, or there are the carrots in addition to the sticks. take someone out for a nice dinner, dazzle them, invite them for a weekend at mar-a-lago.

trump has tried to use this. unfortunately for jeong getting invited to mar-a-lago or getting to sit down for dinner a president at a fancy hotel in singapore, that's the end game. so we have already given kim jong-un what he wanted without getting anything in return. what i imagine is that what mike pompeo did this weekend is what more of a conventional meeting would have looked like where americans go over and say you need to get rid of your weapons, you need to do x, y and z and once you do these things we can talk about alleviating sanctions. that's what a normal universe republican party would be in support of. but the ground has been paved by this singapore meeting which led to the disaster we've seen. i don't think you're going see much vocal push back from the hill. republican politicians don't see any benefit in criticizing the president, republican voters want this president to succeed

so they are not looking for reasons for his actions to be a failure. you won't see anything remotely approaching the anger you would see from republicans had this been a democratic president doing exactly the same thing. >> mika, she talked about the pain staking negotiations. this is what it would normally look like. that's what people richard and andrea and others said this is what you do before you have the meeting. this is what you do for two years. you have meetings, quiet meetings, low expectations. they call you a gangster. you go awesome. we'll see you next -- same time next month. >> but -- >> you sleep slogging through it. camp david, we're coming up on the 40th anniversary of camp david this september. what a long rocky road to camp david. >> it was. and it still wasn't finished

when they got there. but if you look at the image, the video of the hand shake with kim jong-un, president trump and kim jong-un. president trump set this up himself. he produce this. he loves to produce images that send messages and show his grand self on the world stage. instead what he's done by saying sleep well at night, look at me. look at me. >> that right there, that's what north korea. ed. that's all they wanted. he gave them what they wanted. he gave them the american flags next to the north korean flags. >> he gave them a global platform. >> a global platform. now there's still nuclear arms. >> with images of this to go with it which allowed kim jong-un right there to make a fool, to make a mockery of president trump. >> there's a restaurant in new york called serendipity. you begin the meal with dessert. then you eat your vegetables.

we began with the dessert. north korea got the dessert. oh, now you got to eat your spinach and broccoli. no, we'll stick with dessert. >> we're still in a place where we don't have two years. they can develop a functional delivery vaerks reliable war head and we have no choice but to act. there are very few examples with states with a developed program or developing program that just give it up absent a significant change in the security environment or in the regime. we strengthened the regime so we have to destabilize the environment. >> andrea, just so everybody knows how long this has been unfuu unfu unfurling, back in the late '90s we had briefers coming in telling us north korea was working on nuclear weapons with the ability to strike the continental united states and it would happen in the next 10 to 15 years. this has been a slow motion,

but, again, long range plan by the north koreans. they've been planning this for decades. >> reporter: what was souterly predictable is that now secretary pompeo who is a very smart guy and a very realistic person about all of this but his leverage was damaged by the president's bragging after the summit. that boasting is what undercut our negotiating ability, and so now he's saying well we're going revert to maximum pressure. maximum pressure means going to russia, chinese, nato, u.n. security council, let's tighten up those sanctions. remember those sanctions. you got the president going to nato after d ircdissing the g7 quebec and take on nato and accusing them of being weak on defers and then he's going to vladimir putin after that which is so offensive to the nato allies, going to putin right

after the nato summit, looking ahead, and god knows what he'll do with that one-on-one with vladimir putin. how is he ever going to get china in the middle of trade war to tighten up the sanctions again. they can't university to maximum pressure. that's gone. and north korea knows it. >> reverting to maximum pressure would do exactly what kristen said they would not do which is donald trump would have to prove that he was, in fact, a fool. republicans on the hill don't want to hear it. his people don't want to hear it. and yet this is, again, this is, you know, the diplomatic -- this is the diplomatic equivalent of declaring bankruptcy. maybe he can scratch and claw his way out of it but it's now -- this battle is being fought on north korean terms. >> what they also don't want to hear and andrea referred to it, richard i heard from a well informed source that china is in the middle of this.

china's intent was telling north korean s let pompeo come and embarrass him. >> critical here is south korea. the last time when things went off the rail, south korean president met with kim to get diplomacy started. south korea is invested in its relationship with the north. it doesn't want to see a war happen because hundreds of thousands if not millions of south koreans would lose their lives in the first 24 hours. one of the other dangers of this bilateralism between the united states and north korea we're now going the find ourselves losing control of this process. >> especially with donald trump saying he wants to take american troops out of south korea. >> basically feels on its own the president never coordinated his exercise suspension with them, just watch now what happens out of seoul. you'll see this process spin out of control. >> tonight president trump is expected to announce his pick to replace retiring supreme court justice anthony kennedy.

according to nbc news trump has narrowed his list of contenders to four candidates. brett have nau, amy coney barrett, raymond kethledge and thomas hardiman. trump is to concussion on kavanaugh and hardiman. we'll continue to ask questions about this. joining us now prove of law, jeffrey rosen. president and ceo of the national constitution center and contributing editor of "the atlantic." >> good to have you on board. does your information line up with information that it's these four and narrowed down to kavanaugh and hardiman. >> it's important to stress, first of all, the huge significance of today. this is the 150th anniversary of the 14th amendment to the constitution, which guaranteed equality and liberty after the

civil war. the appointment president trump makes today could determine the shape of the 14th amendment for the next 50 years. so this is going to be most important decision of his presidency. and it's really important to stress similarities and differences between kavanaugh and hardiman. we know that kavanaugh is seen as an insider, he worked for the starr investigation. he's a conservative judge who favors executive power. trump fears he might resurrect a lot of impeachment concerns that would focus the nomination hearings on similarities and differences between the clinton impeachment and possibility of trump's own impeachment. hardiman has a lesser record. trump is impressed about i the fact he drove a cab when he was at georgetown law school. his decisions with social conservative matters like contra sepg and abortion are in a pro conservative direction but may not be as dramatic originalist

as the other candidates. the central question what is the approach to precedent. will they uphold decisions they might disagree with like roe v. wade or are they determined to overturn them? as inconsistent with original understanding. all four of these candidates are conservative, there are important differences among them and very important for citizens to read their records and try to understand what kind of judicial conservative each of them might be. >> so, kristen, barrett seems to be the grand slam some people said for social conservatives. at the same time, we've spoken with senators who say that is a nomination that will not get through the senate. just will not get through the senate. and then you have hardiman and the others. it's interesting, if this pick is seen as a pick that does, will ultimately lead to the ending of roe v. wade, certainly what social conservatives have

been after since 1973. at the same time i saw a poll yesterday that showed 60% of americans don't want that to happen. interesting, very interesting here. only 31% do. very interesting how this short of plays into trump's one-third focus on one-third of america. >> sure. so i think i would be surprised if any of these four in a confirmation hearing were to come out and say, yes, it is my goal to overturn roe v. wade. yes, if apointed to this position i would do so. i suspect that any of those four would say i defer to precedent. i think it does not mean all past precedents are right. take something like citizens united which is a case where public opinion shows that 90% of america does not like the decision that was made in citizens united. but if you're going make adherence to precedent the thing you're looking for, does that mean a judge who says i would be open to overturning citizens

united is disqualified? there's so much focus on roe v. wade but there are a lot of cases that have been decided where if you have a judge take a position that's potentially unpopular, what you'll have is a lot of red state democrats, bear in mind the makeup of the senate, there are a lot of democrats in states trump won. if they can find any plausible excuse to say look i didn't want to obstruct the president, i wanted to confirm his person, but here's this one thing that gives me an out, that will make it much more challenging for mitch mcconnell to get it through. the reason why you want to pick someone who maybe doesn't have as much of paper trail or potential for doing something in a hearing that could get them in trouble is precisely that put to maximize pressure on those red state democrats don't give them an excuse to say why i'm out. >> it's important to understand all conservatives are not created equal. you have justice thomas who is more in the barrett line of thinking which is every day is a

new day. a new opportunity to overturn existing precedent that i find offensive. and not aligned with the constitution. hardiman who there are suing begs he may be more like john roberts who balances precedent a bit more. >> kavanaugh has a record of threading the needle as it were. that can frustrate conservatives. can make conservatives happy at times. but that would actually make him harder to confirm because he has such a paper trail which leads me to my question for you, jeffrey, what's the president's best confirmation strategy here? is it to pick somebody who is unoffensive and sail through the senate and get this out of the way or is it better for the republican position to pick somebody who engages conservatives who enlivens the base ahead of a probably a difficult election year even though this will be out of the way by september or october. >> a great question.

mitch mcconnell has told the president he thinks kethledge and hardiman would be the easiest topix because kavanaugh and barrett would inflame the country. on the other hand, on the assumption they will get through anybody they nominate you want to motivate the base. the interesting thing is overturning roe, many people understand could be the worst thing to happen to the republican party because there's a lot of pro choice women and men who are republicans who don't want roe to be overturned and for that reason trump, like president bush 41 might choose a nominee who doesn't overturn roe v. wade. trump winning all these calculations wants to assure his base the person is conservative and someone who can get through easily through the senate and prereceive roe v. wade. so a sensible calculation might

indeed mean hardiman or kethledge. >> what's interesting for a president who uses the nfl season to pick a fight with the nfl and nfl players, and who actually tells people close to him that that's really good for his political brand, why not barrett, why not pick the fight, and if she does end up getting defeated then all the more -- >> that's what i think. >> all the more ammunition. >> in terms of how he thinks. jeffrey, thank you very much. andrea mitchell, we'll be watching andrea mitchell reports at noon on msnbc. we hope to have you throughout the week as the president heads overseas. still ahead president trump offered a warm embrace of north korea's dictator. >> sleep well tonight.

>> none at tmontenegro's leader much. we'll preview the upcoming nato summit with senator chris coons. we'll be right back. >> that's sort of embarrassing. look at this. -looks great, honey. -right?

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plus come in today and ask about xfinity mobile, a new kind of network designed to save you money. visit your local xfinity store today. welcome back. joining us now member of the senate foreign relations and injuries committee, democrat chris coons of delaware. chris, kasie hunt has the first question for you. >> senator, good to see you this morning. i want to start with what we were just talking about a few minutes ago the supreme court nomination that is pending coming up tonight and some of the pressure that your colleagues in the democratic caucus are under. what is chuck schumer telling all of you right now, and is there a sense that if there were to be some red state democrats who broke with the party to vote in favor of president trump's

nominee that, you know, that would cause an unhealable rift in your caucus? >> well, as you know one of the thing that senator schumer has been particularly skilled at is keeping our caucus together. as we have dealt with an onslaught of issues from president trump that might have divided any other caucus at any other time. we're in the minority. so our ability to challenge this nominee is going to be difficult and senator schumer will work hard to hold us together as a caucus. i'm a member of the judiciary committee. i'll do my job and review the nominee closely before reaching a conclusion. we shouldn't be having a discussion. this is an unprecedented level of hypocrisy where the republicans are playing by different rules when if there's a different president in the white house. for ten months they refused to even hold a hearing on the vacant seats that previously had been held by justice scalia after president obama nominated an imminently confirmable

moderate judge. we're just four months before an election. and the conversation is about rushing this through. i don't think we should be rushing. i frankly don't think we should be considering this nominee. >> richard haas. >> senator, i expect you and a lot of your colleagues disagree with this president on north korea, china, russia, the trade war, 000 handle nato. what can you aldo? do we have the imperial presidency when it comes to foreign policy or do you and your colleagues have any tools that can you bring? >> richard, as you know i returned from a bipartisan, bi cameraal delegation trip. we visited four countries in northern europe. we visited two vital nato allies. in every meeting they raised those issues. tariffs and divisions between the united states and our key european allies. their sacrifice alongside us in

iraq and afghanistan. their improvement in their defense spending. and their grave concerns about what president trump might give away to putin in helsinki a week from today. i do think there are things we can do. senator corker and senator flake were on the decision. senator flake was leading it. senator corker has made a strong stand for to us pull back some of the power that the senate should have to review any attempt by the president to impose tariffs, especially on close security allies. i'll remind you last monetary quebec at the g7, president trump picked a whole lot of fights particularly with canada and for us to be facing a trade war with china and at the same time have president trump be picking fights with our key allies in europe and north america, strikes me as just nonsensical and many republican senators feel the same. >> senator, you just said that you don't think that the senate should even be considering a

nominee for the supreme court based upon past history and yet we're going to have a nominee at some point today, probably tonight. what is the democrat strategy in the senate to slow walk this nomination or run out the clock. >> there's precious little we procedurally can do. if republicans are willing to change the rules of the senate which they demonstrated they are in changing the majority threshold required at the fight over now justice gorsuch, they changed the rules on filibuster margins, we could pull something that would last a day or two. but if they are willing to change the rules there's very little we can do with just 49 members that would prevent them from moving ahead with a confirmation. so what i'm doing and what i expect my colleagues to do is to remind our viewer and constituents just how important this is, to ask them to speak up and express their pinto their senators and to remind folks that elections have

consequences. if you don't like the ways that this new justice will impact everything from reproductive rights to health care to pre-existing conditions, to labor reits and voting rights, speak up, get active and vote. that's our best tool. >> senator chris coons we thank you very much. it's great to have you on the show. coming up roger bennett is here to explain why he says so many english babies will carry the name harry nine months from now. okay. >> a baby boom in london. >> just got his book there too. he joins us next with all the world cup action right here on "morning joe". [music playing] (vo) from the beginning, wells fargo has supported community organizations like united way, non-profits like the american red cross,

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and here we go. joining us now nbc sports soccer analyst, choft of "men -- co-ho "men in blazers." you're saying the brits are in the snienl. you're the self-loathing brit. still you're saying england is

in the semis but not played anybody. >> semi-final of the world cup. england in the semi-final world cup words that i never thought i would say in my lifetime. england in the semi-final. alan dershowitz on the cape. saturday's quarterfinal win for my generation battle for britain. their finest hour. they played sweden. they were clinical. they out classed an ordinary team. did what they needed to do. there's maguire with his meaty english forehead. in nine months time every english baby whether boy or girl will be named harry. so you can show the world his fortnight celebration. england 2-0. here it comes.

that's all soccer is. england -- what's remarkable in my lifetime there's a cycle we've always had where the english players went over there, we'll win it all. we're going to do it. they would fail. self-sabotage. this young team went over and they said we're going -- this is radical for english people, we're going to have some fun. we're going to enjoy. the life lesson, when you roll that ball up the hill and crushing yourself these kids took the pressure off themselves. when you do any job when you watch "morning joe" with passion, with enjoyment with love you can really succeed. success is the ability to go from one failure to another without a loss of enthusiasm. those were churchill's words. that's what this national team has shown the world. >> they remind me a bit like the 2004 red sox who called themselves idiots. they were too stupid to realize

you don't come back from a 3-0 deficit against the yankees. and this -- >> we have to go now. >> you know what's interesting. you can see the character of the team the second they step out on the field and you can see from match one, even before, before the first goal -- listen these kids, they were kids and they didn't care what the tabloids were writing. >> roger touched upon it. it's a level of internal genius. when you take the pressure off yourself, any endeavor, sports, take the pressure off yourself you're home free. >> these kids are too young to know what they are meant to be afraid and they bring that to the field. they will play in the semi-final. they will play croatia. >> are you surprised this game wasn't fixed? >> not sure it wasn't fixed. >> can we go, play this again.

play this again. i've never seen this in all the football i have seen, i have never seen this. this is, near the end of the game -- i'm dead serious. near the end of the game. you get a -- russia gets a free kick. they have to score this kick to get into extra time. at this point maybe putin maybe didn't fix this. right? look at croatia. nobody gets off their feet. every black jersey stands there -- i want to you show one more time. >> this is conspiracy theory. >> somebody at wimbledon at implement sitting down. not one moves their feet. one, two, three, four, five, six, seven croatians standing flat foot. i'm dead serious.

they all stood on their feet. >> bag job. >> i thought it was the best thing of russia. but the same player in the penalty shoot out, look at this penalty kick from glory to the gulag. the croatian he wraps it up. you can't do penalty kicks. again if soccer was penalty shoot outs in three or four years it will be bigger than nfl in america. television producers, celebrity shoot outs. they would love it. be massive on nbc. croatia will play england then moscow on wednesday. belgium-france on tuesday. the ratings have been enormous even without the u.s. >> let's talk about the russians. we won't talk about fixing any more. but i will tell you it was so moving, despite everything else. it was moving looking up in the stands and looking at the

russi russians, how much pride they took in their team and what it meant to that nation and it's hard for americans to understand anything quite so unifying. >> which is what's happened with england in a remarkable way. england that's ripped by brexit, united by its football team. whatever happens on wednesday there's an old saying about the second world war there was one winner, america, one loser germany, and one hero great britain. what was happens in the semi-final england will become the hero of this world cup. >> tell me that is not the line of the morning or the week or the month from glory to the gulag. >> from glory to the gulag. >> if only it was a joke. >> thank you very much. >> thanks, roger. >> roger, i'll keep talking. belgium-france what an

incredible game that will be. who do you like? >> this world cup has been written where it's impossible to predict. mika said belgium. she pretends to hate soccer but she knows more than any of us combined. >> i'm going france. france-england final. seriously it's 1066. >> still ahead this morning information clinton aide lanny davis might not be the first person you would think of to be teaming up with michael cohen, so exactly how did they get-together? "vanity fair" has the inside story on that. plus an update on the ongoing rescue effort to save a youth soccer team from a flooded cave in thailand. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe".

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moments. that brings the total number of rescues to seven. just five boys and their coach are now awaiting their turn at freedom. they've been trapped for more than two weeks. we'll be following that story. and still ahead, the president's legal team sets a new condition for meeting with the special counsel. meanwhile, rudy guilliani calls the mueller probe the most corrupt investigation he's ever seen. >> yeah. >> we'll show him what corruption really looks like, help him out there, plus donald trump has nothing but good things to say about, quote, chairman kim. but the word north korea uses to describe the u.s., gangster. >> not in a positive way. >> not good. >> not like it was a gangsta move. >> foolish. >> this is a negative. >> i think somebody has been duped. >> we will be right back. i'm a four-year-old ring bearer with a bad habit of swallowing stuff.

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on select hotels right until the day you leave. ♪ add-on advantage. discounted hotel rates when you add on to your trip. only when you book with expedia. what a beautiful morning in washington. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, july 9th. with us, we have msnbc contributor mike barnacle and the president of the council on foreign relations and author of the book "a world in disarray," richard haas. also with us, nbc news capitol hill correspondent and the host of "kasie dc" on msnbc. casey is up -- >> i was watching last night. good stuff. >> very koogood, kasie.

we need to talk. she is great. it is difficult to overstate how much is at stake in the coming days for president trump and also for this country. >> it is a big week. >> yes, it is. tonight he names his nominee for the u.s. supreme court. >> do you have any ideas who it is? >> i do, but we've argued about that. a decision with lasting consequences, far beyond his own time in office. then it is off to europe on tuesday for a meeting with the same nato allies he's ridiculed for months. he literally shoved the leader of montenegro at last year's summit. >> it was quite a moment. >> yeah. just last month there was this stare down with angela merkel at the g7 and an unprecedented attack by an american administration against canada. >> well, you know why. >> why? >> well, because they're

stealing her shoes and scuffing them up. >> i hate it when that happens. >> isn't that what he said? that the canadians were stealing our shoes and scuffing them. >> a nation of shoe scuffers. >> they send them across the border -- >> stop. >> no, that's what he really said. >> i know it is what he said. >> he said they were scuffing the shoes to make them sound old, which -- >> it is just weird. >> he lifted that straight from fdr in '43. >> i know. then it is off to the uk where a british woman died yesterday from the same poison that struck a former russian double agent in march. trump travels to london to meet with theresa may, who condemned him last year for sharing anti-muslim videos on twitter. after a weekend stop at his scottish golf course, the president heads to finland for a one-on-one meeting with none other than his old pal, vladimir putin. no secretary of state, no national security adviser, no

one from the pentagon, just donald trump alone with the russian president. >> isn't that interesting? richard haas, fascinating that -- i mean we're about to talk about all of the -- all of the legal problems that people los to donald trump have had because of improper contacts with russians that they then lied about, but donald trump in front of us all has told everybody to get away, he wants to have a secret meeting with vladimir putin, without any of his staff members there. how unusual is that? >> and what could go wrong? >> well, it is beyond unusual. normally -- you often have small meetings. i worked for presidents, and it is usually the office and his opposite number and one staffer, most often the national security adviser. that would be the small meeting. then you would have the larger meeting and each side would have six or ten people. >> but it is unprecedented. >> well, the last time it was done was singapore.

>> right. >> and we'll talk later, but we are still dealing, likely will be dealing for a long time with the fall-out of that. >> by the way, we are going to be talking about north korea later, but the meeting this weekend went terribly regardless of what the secretary of state said. the north koreans are back to calling us gangsters, back to attacking us, and fools rush in. donald trump rushed in, not only made a fool of himself but hurt the united states terribly. >> and going back to putin for a second, to do this meeting, of all meetings, given the political backdrop, given the stakes, you really need a careful record for follow-up. you need to document what putin said. you would want to document what the president said. the consequences here of the united states and russia, whether it is over ukraine, syria, we can talk about the specific issues, of the two having the same kind of reaction of the united states and north korea where you essentially have two different readouts of the meeting is really dangerous.

>> it is almost as if, mike, he has something to hide. >> well, break it down a little further, richard. there's no notetaker in this meeting? >> no, because the interpreters are busy interpreting. they do not take notes. >> wow, okay. >> so there's no record of the meeting. >> and again for people at home that want to act like this is normal because they want to act like what donald trump is doing is normal, it is not normal at all. the only reason you do this is because you didn't want people in the united states of america to know what you were saying. it reminds me of an oval office meeting he had where he at any time allow any american press in, where he told the ambassador from russia to the united states and russia's foreign minister that he'd just fired the fbi director and not to worry about it. >> to relieve the pressure. >> the pressure was going to be off, that it was all taken care of. >> exactly. we'll dig deeper into it. back here at home, staying on track here, his former

campaign chairman sits in prison. his trade war is claiming its first victims. rudy guilliani is back on tv. >> oh, my goodness. >> which is incredible. the north korean talks are unraveling. thousands of parents still have no idea what the u.s. government did with their children. just let that sit for a second. that happened in this country. it is still happening. let's start with the nuclear deal with north korea, the deal that is easier to talk about, which donald trump loves to do, than actually getting done. >> can't be executed. >> it was just over three weeks ago when donald trump tweeted, "there's no longer a nuclear threat from north korea." let me repeat that, donald trump telling americans there's no longer a nuclear threat from north korea adding, quote, "sleep well tonight." >> all right. well, following meetings with secretary of state mike pompeo, north korean state media called the talks, quote, regrettable.

while accusing the u.s. of making, quote, gangster-like demands and calling for complete, verifiable and irreversible denuclearization. pompeo, who did not meet with kim jong-un during his latest trip to the country, hit back at the north korean statement yesterday. >> we had lengthy discussions about the scope of what complete denuclearization means, over the past two days. it is a broad definition of denuclearization. the north koreans understand that and have not challenged that. they also understand that denuclearization makes no sense absent verification and they acknowledge that as well. i am counting on chairman kim to be determined to follow through on the commitment that he made, and so if those requests were gangster-like, they are -- the world is a gangster because there was a unanimous decision at the u.n. security council about what needs to be achieved. >> mike pompeo, a very smart man. >> yeah. >> dealt a very bad hand of

cards, a horrific hand of cards, but he is doing what, you know, he needs to do. certainly glad he's there instead of somebody else, certain other people. but we all heard what he just said. he's depending on chairman kim. depending on chairman kim, a man from a tyrannical, communist family, who lied to five or six american families pha president up their nuclear program. donald trump wanted cheap headlines. the north koreans wanted legitimacy. both get what they wanted, and now north korea is done. what else does north korea have to do? so we asked for the same thing that donald trump claimed he was asking for several weeks ago, and now we're, quote, gangsters. >> he's been made a fool of. >> the only question is how the administration reacts, because north korea never had and doesn't have any intent to

denuclearize. the real question is do we simply let this happen, look the other way? to we modify and agree to go for some smaller gains, or do we try to ratchet this up to where we were six months or a year ago where we're on a march towards potentially war? still ahead on "morning joe", rudy guilliani is trying to define corruption in washington. he doesn't have to look far. we're going to run through some of the most egregious examples next on "morning joe." ♪ oor bell rings) it's open! hey. this is amazing. with moderate to severe ulcerative colitis, are you okay? even when i was there, i never knew when my symptoms would keep us apart. so i talked to my doctor about humira. i learned humira can help get, and keep uc under control when other medications haven't worked well enough. and it helps people achieve control that lasts. so you can experience few or no symptoms.

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now to the russia investigation where president trump's legal team continued to put off the possibility of an interview with special counsel robert mueller. with the president's lawyer setting new conditions for the sit-down. rudy guilliani told "the new york times", quote, if they can come to us and show us the basis and that it is legitimate and

that they have uncovered something, we can go from there and assess their objectivity. guilliani urged the special counsel -- >> don't you like that? >> i love it. >> somebody that's being investigated says, show us the cards in your hands, we're setting the terms, and then we will decide whether you are being objective or not. when, of course, they're all panicking, rudy lead panicer. made the president look foolish yesterday. he might as well have worn something on his forehead saying, we're scared to death of cohen because they have completely lost their nerve. >> guilliani urged the special counsel to wrap up his inquiry and write an investigative report, saying that trump's lawyers plan to write their own summary of the case. guilliani addressed the subject again yesterday, calling the probe the most corrupt he had ever seen. >> have you simply determined that the president is not going to sit down for an -- >> we have not. we're close to determining that. george, he wants to testify.

he believes -- >> it is hard to believe that anymore, mr. mayor. >> it is hard to believe given all of the things that have been shown about how tainted this investigation is. this is the most corrupt investigation i have ever seen, that the justice department is allowing to go forward. >> it would be breath theirs takitheirs -- breathtaking had he not becrowned himself. he would tell you he has been crowned by the queen of england, she would probably say she wishes to have her knighthood back. let's look at some examples of corruption. after a year in a half in the white house, here is a snapshot of donald trump and his administration that rudy guilliani is claiming to be this -- this moral beacon for the rest of the world. robert mueller's investigations brought charges against four ex trump advisers, top trump political advisers including his former campaign chief, who is now sitting in jail after

allegations of witness tampering after his own indictments on fraud, false statements and foreign laundering of money. yeah, that's what you call corrupt, rudy. or maybe the fact that his ex national security advisor, michael flynn, pleaded guilty to lying to investigators. top campaign aide and transition official rick gates pleaded to conspiracy and lying to investigators. and foreign policy adviser george papadopolous pleaded guilty. in sum, four of donald trump's hand-picked ex advisers, one of his lawyers, one of his digital marketing strategists, 14 russian nationalists, three russian companies and five guilty pleas in all, all connected to donald trump, his

campaign, his organization, the election of 2016. now, three months ago today federal investigators raided the office of the president's longtime fixer, michael cohen, which donald trump called disgraceful, an attack on our country. that's funny, it is not what cohen said because cohen said the fbi treated him with the utmost respect. >> interesting. >> the court item said the items that were seized were all fair game and yielded 1.3 million items of material for the government. that's almost all of it fair game. cohen helped buy the silence of a porn star in the final weeks of the 2016 election, which the president denied knowledge of until his lawyer said he funneled the money to cohen. cohen was also involved in another rnc officials payment to a woman who became pregnant and didn't want to continue with it. within weeks of the election, the president paid $25 million in the trump university class action lawsuit to the people who said they were bilk ed by his

promises. corrupt enough, rudy? you talk about corrupt, easily the most corrupt president in the first year and a half of his presidency. but the corruption, it continues, rudy. this as a counsellor to the president urged tv viewers to go buy ivanka's stuff. go buy ivanka's stuff, and did it from the white house lawn. now, i'm sure some people out there say that's much ado about nothing. well, only if government ethics is much ado about nothing, because i guarantee you a lot of other people would have been thrown in jail if they had done the same thing. also as we talk about corrupt, rudy, the most corrupt ever, you really shouldn't go around saying things like that about a marine who is a war hero, who served this country ably and protected us after 9/11. that was him. unlike you, he hasn't beclowned himself since 9/11. you know, rudy, "the washington

post" blew apart trump's claims about giving millions of dollars to charity, finding less than $10,000 over a seven-year period. he even hung on to money donated for veterans until reporters pressured him to actually give it to veterans! his campaign manager allegedly directed the use of some foundation money before the iowa caucuses, leaving the new york attorney general to sue to dissolve it. palm beach post reports that trump's foundation donated over 700,000 to charities who then turned around and put the money right back into trump's pocket, raiding his florida club. some would call that corrupt and a misuse of power. but, you know, rudy, there's so much corruption to go around, and you brought this up. you opened the door.

let's merrily walk through it this monday morning. back to the administration, forbes has been uncovering scandals involving commerce secretary wilbur ross who is now saying his signed statements claiming to invest in stocks were actually just misunderstandings. that's when he was awake. the administration official says he's only good until about 11:00 a.m. in the morning and then he starts to nod off. let me tell you, in those hours he is still awake, whew, the corruption swirls all around him. senators asked for an investigation into insider trading based on their reporting. then, of course, there's interior secretary ryan zinke who spent $139,000 on three sets of doors in his office. yes, friends, you too can have not only his gold collection but also -- with his face on it, but also three doors, three doors for $139,000. oh, wait, no, you can't because that is coming from your pockets. that's your hard-earned tax dollars. you work hard so this corrupt

administration can buy three doors for $140,000. now, zinke denied having a role, and a friend from his montana hometown getting a $300 million contract to restore power to puerto rico. you remember that? >> where 5,000 people died. >> if you don't remember that, there's good reason, because this is the most corrupt administration in the history of our lifetime, certainly over the first year and a half, because we can't forget hhs secretary tom price. >> i was waiting. >> he billed you, the taxpayer, for dozens of private jets before he resigned. and then, of course, there's scott pruitt. >> oh, good lord. >> who viewed you, the taxpayer and your taxpayer money as no object in his pursuit of luxury living before reporters caught on. pruitt flew exclusively first class and send atees on personal tasks like searching for a

$200,000 a year salary for his wife or a used trump hotel mattress. also that chick-fil-a fran chiles he wanted for his wife. pruitt saw no problem saving money in a sweetheart deal for a condo from a lobbyist tied to the epa. they lied about it time and time again until reporters -- oh, yeah, you know, you call it the fake news media. they actually uncovered the fake news, which was lies from the trump administration, while pruitt was spending $43,000 for a sound proof booth. a fleet of 19 vehicles, a request for a bullet-proof seat cover, and a 19-agent security detail who he tasked with picking up his dry cleaning and fetching fancy lotion from the ritz carlton. by the way, we didn't even talk about -- we didn't even talk about the president's hotels and the millions and millions and millions of dollars he has made from people trying to get on the right side of this

administration. that will go down in history, rudy. i so thank you for opening the door. >> yeah. >> and talking about the most corrupt, because we certainly know the robert mueller is not corrupt. we certainly know he's a marine, a war hero, a guy who like donald trump didn't skip out on serving this country, claiming deferments and bone spurs. of course, robert mueller was fighting in the jungles of vietnam while donald trump was graduating from an ivy league university on the same day that dozens of americans were killed. we know. we know who's corrupt here and we know who is not corrupt here. we just want to thank you for reminding us of all of the corrupt things, the guy that you're shaming yourself for has engaged in over the past year and a half. here is the amazing thing. it is only a year and a half and, rudy, you know how things

get when somebody is out of power. can you imagine what we're going to find about donald trump when he's out of the white house? and you're out there schilling for him, attacking an american hero, attacking a vietnam hero, attacking the men and women of the justice department, attacking the men and women of the fbi, attacking the men and women, the professionals who every single day are working around the clock to keep all of us taxpayers across america safe. good job, rudy. >> and next we'll bring in "vanity fair" reporter emily jane fox, who has brand-new reporting on michael cohen. she joins the conversation straight ahead on "morning joe." ♪

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so when i asked cohen if the president directed him to make the payments to stormy daniels, he said he couldn't answer on advice of counsel. did the president direct michael cohen to make that statement? >> as far as i know from his original statements and the president's statements and everything i've seen in terms of documents and the way it was reimbursed, no, the president

did not originally know. at some point, probably a little foggy as to exactly when, the president found out and reimbursed him. i think that's the clear point. >> that was on several times this weekend that rudy guilliani attempted the rewrite history on when the president misled the public and how the president misled the public and why the president misled the public. >> over and over again. >> let's bring in senior reporter at vanity reporter emily jane fox, the author of the new york times best seller "born trump" and is out this morning with new reporting on how the lanny davis era of the michael cohen story began. all right. so, you know, the old reesy's adds, you put peanut butter and chocolate together and you wouldn't expect that. wouldn't expect cohen and lanny davis together. how did it happen? why did it happen?

>> so michael cohen has a bunch of mutual friends who said to him, look, this is time, you need some help here, not only legally but pr wise. this has been out of your control for far too long. you haven't been able to talk because your lawyers won't let your talk, it is time to shift the narrative, particularly because michael and people around him believe there is an onslaught that will come. we saw rudy guilliani's comments yet and i think that's just the tip of the iceberg of what is to come. so he cold called lanny davis and lanny davis picked up and is like is this the michael cohen. >> yeah. >> michael said, is the lanny davis. lanny davis took about 30 seconds to hear that accent and figured out it was the michael cohen. they started talking for about two weeks. it wasn't something that davis was initially 100% sold on, but once he went on the record and made it very clear he is publicly breaking with the president and privately breaking with him as well, he decided to come on board. >> what does he want?

what does he want from lanny davis? >> i think he needs help on how to message this next phase of what is going to happen legally. this is a position that he never thought he was going to be in and he has been losing the pr battle for a really long time, and i think there's a sense where things could turn around for him. if he goes down one road -- >> right. >> -- he has the ability to change from a guy who everyone has been talking about as mobbed up and a criminal. >> right. >> and in much the way people talk about the president now and to become a different kind of figure. >> any hope remaining that trump will pardon him? >> there's certainly no talk of that in the world around michael cohen. that is not what he is after here. i think he is after more of a break with the president than something coming back -- >> so what does his family want him to do? >> everyone has a universal goal right now, and that is to say to him, loyalty is a one-way street with president trump.

he has not been loyal to you and there's no reason for you to continue to be loyal to him. >> is there an argument in his brain still about this? >> i don't -- i'm not inside his brain. i think that it is a complicated breakup of sorts. there is someone who has for a decade done everything that he could possibly to do further president trump's interests. >> but trump didn't let him come to washington. trump doesn't trust him. trump makes fun of him behind his back. >> i think that is -- >> does he understand that now? >> now. it took a very long time for him to get to the point of understanding that their relationship was not exactly as he thought their relationship was. >> in terms of legal peril, emily, according to your reporting, would he be looking at least right now at at least two avenues of charges, one having to do with bank fraud and the other having to do with tax fraud? >> look, from -- just look at what the search warrants for looking for when they were

executed in april. they were extraordinarily broad. it went from the payments to women, to any communication with the trump campaign, anything having to do with the taxi medallions, anything have to do with loans he got from banks, bank accounts, specific pell op he dealt with. so the number of charges and the range of charges just based on those search warrants alone, it could be extraordinary. i don't think there's a sense of exactly what they could be right now. >> you have a quote in here from one of his friends that says they believe that mike cohen, quote, won the hell out of that week. i'm not sure what week they're referring to, but i can't remember a week i felt like michael cohen really won it. what feedback mechanisms are they using to determine where michael's pr battle is at any given moment? >> i think last week was the george stephanopoulos week. so there was a sense in the coverage around that that this is starting to turn and perhaps this is a guy who may down the

road cooperate with the president, and that is something more positive for him than this guy's going to jail, this guy's a criminal, this guy's a crook. so it may be a small distinction, but when you are living your life basically under siege in your hotel room and watching unyielding negative headlines to see headlines that are slightly more positive. >> talking about his cooperating with investigators. >> yeah. i think it is a small distinction for everybody else, but for someone who has felt, like he is, under siege for a long time, that distivnction dos matter. >> "vanity fair's" emily jane fox, thank you as also. coming up on "morning joe", vladimir putin doesn't seem to like nato and president trump doesn't seem to either. we will preview their one-on-one private meeting straight ahead on "morning joe." ♪

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president trump is set to sit down with russia's vladimir putin one week from today. the meeting in helsinki will come at the end of a four-nation

week-long european trip which includes a stop in belgium for the nato summit. it also comes as new reporting shows the president's positive posture toward the russian president has left even some in his inner circle puzzled. "the washington post" reports that during his time in the white house, former national security advisor h.r. mcmaster would ponder why, quote, the president thinks he can be friends with putin. i don't know why or why he would want to be. that's a quote according to u.s. officials. a senior u.s. official adds putin complains to trump during their phone calls about fake news and how, in putin's words, the, quote, deep state is conspiring against them, with putin telling trump that it is not us. >> that's actually what sean hannity talks about. >> it is subordinates fighting against our friendship. at the president's relationship with putin seems to flourish, he continues to rattle nato allies, tweeting moments ago, the united states is spending far more on

nato than any other country. this is not fair nor is it acceptable. while these countries have been increasing their contribution since i took office, they must do much more. germany is at 1%. the u.s. is at 4%, and nato benefits europe far more than it does the u.s. by some accounts the u.s. is paying for 90% of nato, with many countries nowhere close to their 2% commitment. on top of this, the european union has a trade surplus of $151 million with the u.s., with big trade barriers on u.s. goods. no! joining us now, professor of international politics at the fletcher school of law and diplomacy at tuft's university, daniel dresner. >> dan, so much to talk about. i have to ask you have you like alan dershowitz been excluded from clam bakes on martha's v

vineyard? >> when i go there, i try not to talk about politics at all. that's my vacation. shockingly, that means i'm usually invited to some clam bakes. >> well, that's good. also, i loved your column in "the washington post" that was not about alan dershowitz. >> no, definitely not. >> it is becoming a little hard to escape alan dershowitz. i opened up "the boston globe" this morning and there was a huge op ed of alan dershowitz. i've had enough of him for the year. >> we've all had. >> you never had enough of the red sox winning, have you? >> no. that's the way it is supposed to work. >> it is working that way this year. we heard and saw much in those trump tweets. it is pretty extraordinary a man who kowtows to chairman kim as donald trump calls kim jong-un could be so bitterly critical of nato allies that helped us win the cold war. what is your take? >> my take is we're about to see

a week that is essentially a reprice of what happened a few weeks ago when trump first went to the g7 and insulted all of the leaders there and refused to sign the communique and flew all of the way to the sing sing important a -- singapore to have a love fest with kim jong-un. trump in some ways will be more isolated in belgium than in g7, there are just more nato members. he will probably try to put in his meeting with putin in helsinki the most positive spin available, which of course will fall apart once everyone realizes nothing much was agreed on in helsinki. it will be like the summit in singapore, a nice photo op and nothing beyond that. >> dan, did you ever imagine in your wildest imagination we would arrive at a point where the president of the united states is going to meet with, a, vladimir putin, head of russia without even a note taker in the road? just a one-on-one with just the

interpreters, no note takers so we, the publamerican pebublic, world at large will have no frame of reference as to what he on kurd at that meeting? >> no, it is truly galactically stupid. i want the hear if the white house why there should not be a note taker. it is not like the notetaker is going to leak the contents of the meeting. this is something from the perspective of u.s. foreign policy you want. "the washington post" story joe talked about in the beginning of this segment mentioned the fact that trump apparently had a phone conversation with canadian prime minister trudeau and no one else was in the room, that in fact even trump senior officials were not aware that the call had taken place. you want a note taker just to make sure that everyone is on the same page, and the more disturbing thing, by the way, is the recognition this is not the first time trump and putin will have this conversation while trump has been president without a note taker. during the dinner at the g20

trump apparently talked to putin for approximately an hour, relying only on putin's translator to communicate between the two. so i really want to know what exactly is so important that donald trump needs to talk to vladimir putin without any other americans in the room. >> and, of course, we talked about this before already, the oval office meeting with the russian ambassador, with the foreign minister, no american reporters allowed inside. that's where he told them, hey, got everything taken care of here. >> and shared israeli intelligence. >> yes, and shared israeli intelligence. just this past week, donald trump telling the crowd after attacking america's closest allies that putin's okay, there's nothing wrong with putin. >> yeah, in that tweet which is kind of broken up so it is hard to put it together, the president says, quote, nato benefits europe more than the u.s., which is probably the most horrifyingly ignorant thing america has said about their

relationship with the european allies. it is like the president doesn't understand the extent to which the world as america's sole superpower is drawn into conflicts in the world wherever they occur. it is almost like there's an abandonment of hard power that has guided foreign policy since the post-war era. i wonder if you think there's a model another republican can follow here? it seems like this is very much force of personality and republicans would be disconcerted with this if it were a democrat, for example, but are there republicans who want to aspire to this model of foreign policy, this force of personal, institutionalist, unilateralist approach to foreign relations? >> i think one of the things we've obviously witnessed over the last 18 months is that -- is that a lot of the gop rank and file will follow the president wherever he goes. so i believe there have been polls coming out that show that, for example, republican attitudes towards germany have plummeted since trump became

president because trump essentially talks down germany any chance he can get. i don't done there are some republicans who are probably going to sound very similar to the president because they don't want to alienate the base. but i agree with you. it is remarkable the degree to which a president who is seemingly obsessed with power doesn't understand the first thing about power projection, which is to say if the u.s. wants to actually exercise influence on the rest of the world, you know, power projection 101 says don't alienate your allies while you're doing it. trump seems to go out of his way to do this, in a way that -- you know, it is not like the concerns about other nato countries contributing to more on defense is unique to trump. bob gates when he was secretary of defense in the obama administration made a speech that was extremely critical about this. it is worth noting, by the way, trump lied in his tweets. >> yeah. >> european members of nato have been boosting their expenditures since russia went into ukraine, which happened under president obama, which trump is fond of

pointing out. it also points out that the increase of contributions from members began under obama. >> european powers spend more on defense when they're afraid for that positions and it is deteriorating. it is not something we want. >> right. one of the secrets about u.s., you know, defense spending as opposed to europe is one of the benefits of u.s. defense of germany is that countries in europe are not supposed to spend as much. when germany spends more on defense, shockingly their neighbors get twitchy about it. remember the whole point about -- remember the whole purpose -- you know, it was said about nato that the purpose is to keep the russias out, the americans in and the germans down. you know, donald trump doesn't understand any of those three principles. so as a result he doesn't understand nato. >> all right. senator ron johnson, who is one of several republican lawmakers who met with russian officials in moscow last week, says the

united states should revisit the current sanctions against russia. >> we need to take a look at the sanctions. are they actually changing russia's behavior? and right now, unfortunately, i don't think they've particularly working from that standpoint. >> in an interview with the "washington examiner" he said lawmakers should consider revising sanctions so they focus more on rush an oligarchs. he told the paint, quote, my sense is that the targeted sanctions to the oligarchs, to the members of the government, are the ones that really sting and offer the best chance of affecting their behavior. >> so, dan, we have republicans now in support of opening their arms to the north koreans and to the russians and yet kicking around the canadians because they scuff shoes to make them sound old and trashing our nato allies. what to make of this?

is now any time to let up on russian sanctions? >> no, now is not the time to let up, and the senator really should have thought, you know, i don't know for maybe ten seconds before opening his mouth on this subject. i understand the subtle point he is trying to make, which is to say if you want sanctions to work, you want to make sure you are targeting russia's elite as well as its larger population. i think what the senator doesn't understand is the overall purpose of the sanctions, which is not just to change russia's behavior but also that you are trying to defend normal world politics, which is not to use force to change boundaries in europe which is what russia did when it went into crimea. by the way, this is another area donald trump doesn't seem to understand. in the g7 summit he said, why wasn't russia's annexation of crimea a good idea, they all speak russian down there? not realizing that once you open up using force to change borders, again, that makes

europeans twitchy. >> also not understanding because he has no sense of history that the international community made a commitment to ukraine, that if they gave up their nuclear weapons we would make sure their borders would be respect. they gave up their nuclear weapons and their border is not respected. >> daniel dresner, thank you for being on the show this morning. great to have you. >> thank you. stop talking so much about alan dershowitz. >> it is getting boring. up next, december 2nd seems like a long way off, but you might want to clear your calendar right now. we have an early look at an exciting event, and that is next on "morning joe." ction? how about some of the lowest options fees? are you raising your hand? good then it's time for power e*trade the platform, price and service that gives you the edge you need. alright one quick game of rock, paper, scissors. 1, 2, 3, go. e*trade.

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and apartheid is not natural. it is man made. and it can be overcome and eradicated by the actions of human beings. and overcoming poverty is not a gesture of charity. it is the protection of the fundamental human right. the right to dignity and a decent life. >> that was nelson mandela speaking in 2005 to over 20,000 people in london, urging world

leaders to end extreme global poverty. the advocacy organization global citizen will hold a free event for 100,000 people to honor mandela's legacy and aim to make major strides to end extreme poverty. and today we're helping announce the artists who will be headlining the global citizen festival. mandela 100 event. among them, beyonce, jay z, eddie vedder, pharrell williams and chris martin. joining us now, a united nations sustainable development goal advocate, oscar-winning actor forest whitaker. also, president of the national action network reverend sharpton. and chuck robins, ceo of cisco, which is a major sponsor of the event. good to have you on board. >> how do you get involved and what do you hope to get -- what

do you hope the world to get out of this event? >> i've been working with global citizens since 2016. one of the things they do is bring together individuals, normal citizens, to be able to find actions they can do to help change the planet. i started working with them on that. one of their major goal, as you heard, about eradication of poverty in the world. and this is one of the main issues that affects me also because i work on conflict resolution. in that area, the lack of resources, lack of ability to have the dignity of a human being, is eradicated from them. so these two things come together for me. >> talk about also remembering nelson mandela. on the 100th anniversary. >> yes. >> and what that means to all of us in a time line this. >> i think that he served as an iconic beacon for all of us to understand that as an individual you can make it effect on the

planet and the world. he was able to fight against, you know, institutional racism with apartheid and he was able to move out of that and move into a space of trying to bring the country together, to forgiveness. these are lessons all of us need to follow as we continue to make our journey. >> isn't it extraordinary, it's not only that he triumphed in a generational battle, but also brought a country together that had been torn apart. whites and blacks coming together in south africa. that was as great of an achievement, a peaceful resolution, as was the victory. >> it's powerful. when he put together the truth and reconciliation committee to be able to deal with the issues that happened during the conflict of apartheid, i mean, he was able to, like, make the nation look at hearing the problems, then finding forgiveness in their hearts so they would be able to work together as people. i think this is a very powerful message to all of us. >> mandela's legacy is certainly

something to look at during this time and chuck robins, some would argue that it's a time where private citizens and corporations can step up where perhaps there might be an empathy void in the administration. why don't you tell us what is motivating cisco to step up. >> first of all, thanks for having us today. we're very excited to be partnering with global citizen. a couple of years ago, just in line with our culture, we made a commitment to positively impact 1 billion lives by 2025 around the world. recently, we just made a $50 million commitment towards homelessness here in silicon valley. when i met forest and hugh evans and rest of the team, this just is a very natural thing for us to be a part of in trying to end poverty. and i do think corporate america and corporations around the

world have to take a much more active role in helping solve some of the biggest problems. >> reverend al, just listening to forest's response and his explanation of why he got involved, nelson mandela, it is amazing when you reflect upon his life to think that here's an individual who spent a good part of his life in basically a 12 foot by 12 foot cell and emerged without seemingly any bitterness. and emerged to help lead the world toward a better place. incredible to think about that. >> it really is. and part of this celebration of mandela is to celebrate the best in the human spirit. how he turned his pain into power and suffering into redemption. and i remember the times that i was around him. there was no even off the record kind of bitterness or acrimony.

i think when all of us head to johannesburg, i went with evans and martin luther king iii and meet with the secretary-general to talk about how this is a world event to really challenge all of us to rise up like mandela, above ourselves, to make change around poverty by also changing those notions in us that lead toward a negative climate. that's what he exemplified. this year of celebrating mandela is to celebrate the best of us. that's why we're going with the best talent to johannesburg december 2nd. >> you brought it up. we're talking about it. the power of reconciliation. something we need in our own politics every day. i think, owe, the divisions are too wide. i remember lincoln, the second inaugural, 650,000 americans killed. talking about with malice toward none, stitching the union together, and that's what mandela did. what a powerful legacy.

>> it's an unbelievable legacy to bring them together. and still, after his own freedom, when he was released from prison after 27 years, he still focused on the freedom of others. i think there's something that's really powerful what you're talking about, separation. i think to bring together all of us under a banner of understanding that we're working towards giving everybody their rights of -- the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. the ability to have a home. the ability to be fed. all these things coming together are things all of us can relate to. as a people, as a nation, as a world, we have to bring ourselves together under these banners. >> and that's something that global citizen is talking about, as well as the continued fight to end extreme poverty. reverend al, we still have a long way to go in that area, don't we? >> we do have a long way to go, but we must be committed to it. i think mandela particularly in the century of celebration give

us the power of possibility. here's a man who literally went from prisoner to president. so you have to keep believing. you have to keep striving. we can do it and we're going to prove it. >> the global citizen festival. mandela 100. will take place on december 2nd in johannesburg. for more information on how you can earn your free tickets, glow to global citizen.org. forest whitaker, reverend sharpton, chuck robins, thank you all so much. >> thank you, chuck, for what you and cisco are doing. >> and that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much, mika. i am stephanie ruhle with breaking news this morning. starting with a daring rescue mission unfolding at this moment. at least five of those young soccer players have been pulled safely from a cave as rescuers race against time to save the rest. trapped deep inside a network of