>> glenn, you and i are going to have a head of hair like danny savalas before that happens. i appreciate the sentiment. glenn kirchner is former federal prosecutor, danny is nbc's legal analyst. that brings this busy hour to a close for me. "deadline white house" starts right /s hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. i'm katy tur in for nicolle wallace. donald trump gets the last claim this is a witch hunt. vladimir putin, deputy attorney general rod rosenstein, today announced a dozen new indictments in mueller's probe. 12 russian military officers charged with hacking the democratic national committee. hillary clinton's campaign and voting technology ahead of the 2016 election. >> today a grand jury in the district of columbia returned an indictment presented by the special counsel's office. the indictment charges 12

russian military officers by name for conspiring to interfere with the 2016 presidential election. according to the allegations in the indictment, the defendants worked for two units of the main intelligence directorate of the russian general staff known as the gru. the units engaged in active cyber operations to interfere in the 2016 presidential election. the conspirators corresponded with several americans during the course of the conspiracy through the internet. there is no allegation in this indictment that the americans knew they were corresponding with russian intelligence officers. >> the indictments place the blame for the 2016 election meddling squarely on the shoulders of the russian state, not as donald trump has previously alleged, china, a 400 pound man, or, quote, other people in other countries. according to rosenstein, the

president was briefed earlier this week that the indictments were coming, but trump and his white house have offered no condemnation of russia, putin, or the individuals charged. in fact, trump has continued to repeatedly praise putin throughout his foreign trip and malign the investigation. calling it a witch hunt as recently as this morning. >> i think i have a very good relationship with president putin. if we spend time together, i ma i be wrong. other people have said that, didn't work out. but i'm different than other people. i think that we're being hurt very badly by the, i would call it the witch hunt. i call it the rigged witch hunt. i think that really hurts our country and it really hurts our relationship with russia. i think that we would have a chance tomorrow a very good relationship with russia and a very good chance -- very good relationship with president putin. i would hope so. >> okay. ken dilanian, intelligence and national security reporter for nbc news, frank figliuzzi, matt

miller and former u.s. attorney joyce vance. matt, i do want to start with you. given that donald trump today called this a witch hunt and given that rod rosenstein briefed him on this indictment days ago, what does that say to you about how seriously donald trump is taking this investigation? >> he's taking it seriously. in one way i think he's always taken this seriously in that he's been very concerned about it. he's clearly been concerned about the aspects that relate to him, the obstruction of justice aspects that he's under investigation for. and the other part of it, he's never taken seriously. he's never taken this seriously as an attack on the united states. he cares about anything that might affect him. he cares about implications of wrongdoing of people close to him, around him. whenever it is discussed as an attack on the united states, an attack on our democracy, an attack on our free and fair elections, you see his defensiveness from him and this need to lash out against the

investigators. and it is remarkable, i think, that days after he was briefed on this indictment, when he knew it was coming, when he knew there would be public evidence unsealed about a russian conspiracy to attack our elections and just before he went to meet with vladimir putin, he was still out attacking the investigators, still out making excuses for the russian government. it is at best an irresponsible course of action by the president. >> given that, if he was completely innocent of all the charges and if this was nothing for him, he was not involved in any way, his campaign wasn't of involved in any way, if he knew he was innocent, why wouldn't he take this seriously and say this is a big deal and i want to get to the bottom of this? why can't he separate those two if he is innocent? re: well, the best theory that you can give, the best possible explanation for his behavior is he just thinks all of these allegations about russian meddling, whether there was any collusion between his campaign or not, but just the allegations

of russian med allegdling dampe win. that's the best possible explanation you can give for it. the other explanation, of course, is that he did something wrong or he knows people around him did something wrong. and i will say to your point about if he is innocent, why doesn't he take this more seriously? the other thing, if he is innocent, he has nothing to hide, why does he keep delaying, why does he keep refusing sitting down talking with the special counsel about what he knows, about what happened in the campaign and what he did -- what he may or may not have done to obstruct the investigation into the campaign activities ones he became president. >> ken, the timing of this comes a day after the peter strzok hearing, that contentious hearing where republicans were trying to make him the boogie man. three days before trump's meeting in helsinki with vladimir putin. >> katy, it is an incredibly strong move by federal law enforce. . not just federal law enforce

789, the entire intelligence community. it flies in the face of everything donald trump has been saying about this. what's more, we have breaking news. dan coates, director of national intelligence was at a public event. he specifically called out russian hacking and interference. he was asked what he would say to vladimir putin. he would say we know what you're doing, how you're doing 2, we know you run the shots, you're making deal significances. you can't pass it off to some hacker somewhere we don't know. we know what you do. you make the choice. it is explicitly calling out, as nbc news has reported, vladimir putin directly supervised and was directly personally involved in the election interference op rangs. donald trump knows that. that's not in this indictment, but it's in the intelligence he has been briefed on. it is inexplicable why -- we can understand why he wants to say it's a hoax that his campaign was colluding with russian interference effort. but why he is unwilling to come to grips with the fact that a

foreign power attacked our election, he's got the evidence, and he needs to sort of reorient the government to do something about it to prevent it from happening again, katy. >> there is also a little bit more news coming out of this indictment, some connecting of the dots that we had been reporting until now. on page 13 of the indictment, frank, the mueller team talks about when d.c. leaks, an election leaks, the domains were made. it says this. on or about june 8, 2016, they launch d.c. leaks.com which they use to release stolen e-mails. before it shutdown in around march 2017, the site received over 1 million page views. the conspirators falsely claimed on the site that d.c. leaks was started by a group of american activists when it was started by the conspirators. the russians. june 9, the day after this website was created, there was that trump tower meeting with don junior, jared kushner, paul manafort, the russian lawyer.

>> so, we don't know what the nexus is other than proximity and time. but if you read through this indictment and every american who cares about the threat to america should read this indictment carefully. it's a great read. put down the spy novel you're reading, pick up the indictment and read through this. but when you look at the passage you're talking about, katy, you can see there is great effort made to deceive, obfuscate by the russians, attempt to blame it on americans. we see the proximity and time as that is going on, we have campaign officials for trump sitting down, breaking bread, meeting with russians. the proximity of that, i don't believe in hunches. i don't believe in coincidences. i believe there is a familiarity and comfort level with what the russians are doing in the campaign and that is what we're seeing play out in the face-to-face meetings. >> that seems to be a theme, i

don't believe in hunches. federal investigators, i should say. there is also this, and i think it's interesting as well, talking about trump campaign official or someone who is in contact with trump campaign officials, talking directly with gucifer 2.0 who this indictment names as well as a russian. the conspirators posing as gucifer 2.0 talked about the release of stolen documents on or about august 15th, 2016. the conspirators posing as gucifer 2.0 wrote to a person who is in regular contact with senior members of the presidential campaign, of donald j. trump. thank you for writing back. do you find anything in in the docs i posted? on or about august 17, 2016, the conspirators said please tell me if i can help you anyhow. it would be a great pleasure to me. ken, back to you for a moment on this. that's roger stone, right? >> yeah, and we know that because roger stone -- this has been reported on previously and

roger stone took it upon himself to release screen shots of these messages which are still on the web. you can find them. and they read verbatim like this exchange. and so roger stone has said that he never communicated with any russian intelligence official. this indictment suggests that that is not the case. he may not have known it, but clearly he was communicating with russian intelligence here, katy. >> joyce, the white house has released a statement on this today, and they say that the charges include no allegations of knowing involvement by anyone in the campaign and no allegations that the alleged hacking affected the election results and that's what they've been saying all along. but let's be clear, joyce, this indictment doesn't say that's not what they're going to find. the investigation is still ongoing. and if you ask pete williams, our justice reporter, he makes it clear that there is more coming. >> i think that that's absolutely right. you know, rod rosenstein, when he announced this indictment today, did not look like a man

who was delivering the last chapter in a book. it was clear that he was in the middle of the story. we have now seen the irs indictment which talks about social media manipulation by russia. here we have the russian hacking piece with a little glimpse of roger stone and perhaps others. it would be very unlikely if mueller did not have additional indictments to drop here. but, katy, i think what's so disturbing about the white house's statement is that they only seem to be concerned with risk to the white house, with risk to trump from this investigation, and they miss the bigger picture, that russia attacked this country as certainly as japan bombed pearl harbor. this was a cyberattack on our elections. and the president of the united states doesn't seem to be concerned as long as mueller doesn't indict people from his campaign. >> does mueller pay attention to the president's reaction to the white house's reaction? >> i suspect he pays attention to the reaction of a lot of people. you know, federal prosecutors do

something called tickling the wire in drug cases or other cases where they have wiretap. you see the reaction that defendants or subjects have as there is activity during a wiretap, and perhaps as it's revealed and taken down. so mueller is definitely looking at how people react to the announcement of this indictment because the most important element of the case, if there will be cases against american citizens or others, will be whether they have knowledge and intent. whether they were unwitting dupes for the russians or knowing participants. you know, this indictment makes it very clear in the conspiracy count it is naming people who are indicted today, but there are others who are known and unknown to the grand jury. mueller will be deciding whether there are other coconspirators. >> in talking about roger stone for just oomt momeanother momen his name has been swirling so much, one thing i think is interesting, frank, so far as we know, he has not been interviewed by the special counsel.

any reason to believe that he could be cooperating? >> yeah, his public person a doesn't lend itself to cooperation. that's not what i'm get forgive him. i'm thinking he's not been interviewed yet if that's accurate because they're saving this up. they are building their case and they are only going to sit him down when they're ready to present be document after document, evidence after evidence. the white house, fox news, rudy giuliani can come out today and say, this somehow proves that there is no evidence involving trump or campaign members. what we do see in reference to u.s. persons, like roger stone, are that they are knowingly engaged with a hacker presenting stolen property, stolen data and they're exchanging -- they're in a conversation with these people. so, it may not be that they knew they were russian intelligence officers. it may not be they knew they were russians, but they knew they were dealing with some form of criminal conduct. >> july 27th, matt miller, is a

date that keeps coming up. it's the date that donald trump asked russia, if you're listening, find hillary clinton's e-mails. let's listen to that moment. it was july 27, 2016, in the middle of the democratic national convention. donald trump comes out, holds a press conference at his doral golf club in miami. >> russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. >> matt, i was at that press conference. i heard it. it raised a lot of red flags for me and i said, are you serious? does it not give you pause to ask a foreign government to hack into anybody's e-mail in the u.s., let alone, a political opponent? and he said, no, no, no, it does not. you're just trying to save clinton towards me and reiterated again, i'd love to see those e-mails. now we are learning from this indictment that on that very day, after hours, so presumably after donald trump said that, for the very first time,

according to the indictment -- and they say for the first time in this -- there was a spear fishing effort by the conspirators named in this indictment to hack into hillary clinton's e-mails. >> katy, that was an incredibly damning moment for the president when it happened and it's become only more damning with the benefit of hindsight and the benefit of finding out just what was going on in the campaigns. we have since found out that in the spring of 2016, donald trump's campaign was approached by someone who said the russians had obtained hillary clinton's e-mails. in june of 2016, they were approached by russian attorney seemingly acting on the kremlin's behalf who told them that -- who offered to share information after an intermediary said the russian government wants to help your campaign. the president then goes out and publicly asks for russian intelligence services to hack hillary clinton's e-mails and we now know that that very same day they jumped into action. it's kind of astonishing if you think about it. what was happening is the gru, russian military intelligence

service was essentially acting as donald trump's personal concierge. he asked hem to get hillary clinton's e-mails and they jumped to respond. >> frank, i know you say you don't believe in coincidences, but could this be a coincidence? >> highly unlikely, katy, highly unlikely. >> who is jumping in a second ago? >> katy, i want to say your questioning of donald trump looms very important because you gave him a chance to say, i was just kidding, it was hyperbole, and he did not take that chance. and so he is on the record saying, i meant what i said. i wanted them to get the e-mail. and whether he knew that they were going out to get it -- apparently according to the indictment -- or not, can you imagine if barack obama or george w. bush had made a statement and then found out later foreign operatives tried to steal something pursuant to that statement? can you imagine them not addressing it in public, not being grilled about it? it's just incredible. >> i think trey gowdy's head might explode if that happened. talking about rudy giuliani as well who has never shied away from getting involved in

anything, he's got a statement today. the indictments rod rosenstein announced are good news for all americans. the russians are nailed. no americans are involved. time for mueller to end this pursuit of the president and say, president trump is completely innocent. joyce, it sounds like he's saying the president is a target of this investigation. >> it does sound a little bit that way. and rudy giuliani as a former u.s. attorney knows or at least should know that prosecutors don't like to give defendants -- and, in fact, under the u.s. attorney's manual, do not give defendants, whether they are targets or subject, a clean bill of health because you don't know where the evidence might go in a case. but this is really damaging for the president. you participated in that press conference where he called for russian participation. he then tried to cover up at least this one meeting in trump towers. and this really brings the obstruction case into focus because one of giuliani's complaints has been, you can't obstruct if there's no

underlying crime. well, now we are seeing whether trump is guilty or not, there was, in fact, underlying activity by russia. and that really casts obstruction and trump's efforts to end the russia investigation into a whole new light. >> ken dilanian, matt miller, joyce vance, guys, thank you very much. frank, stick around with us. coming up, in the wake of today's indictments, some democrats are calling on trump to scrap his summit with vladimir putin. so far the white house isn't saying anything has changed. we'll look at what we can expect. plus, memo to congress. rod rosenstein appears to be fed up with shenanigans like yesterday's hearing on capitol hill. his message to lawmakers trying to meddle in an ongoing investigation. next. her salon was booked for weeks, until her laptop crashed this morning. you never know what the day's going to bring when you're running a small business, it might even bring a blue screen of death. having it problems? ask a business advisor how to get virus and spyware removal, and 24/7 tech support.

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i know you'll ask her will we be talking about meddling and i will absolutely bring that up. i don't think you'll have any gee, i did it, i did it, you got me. there won't be a perry mason here, i don't think, but you never know what happens. but i will absolutely firmly ask the question. >> on the heels of a dozen new indictments in robert mueller's russia investigation, trump's reluctance to condemn vladimir putin for election meddling has led to calls from both sides of the aisle for trump to cancel his summit with putin now just days away. republican senator john mccain just put out this statement. despite repeated warnings from our nation's top intelligence and military leaders, the kremlin's efforts to weaken our institutions have continued unabated with insufficient action taken by the administration or congress to

strengthen our cyber defenses, safeguard our election systems, and deter further destabilizing activities. president trump must be willing to confront putin from a position of strength and demonstrate that there will be a serious price to pay for his ongoing aggression toward the u.s. and democracies around the world. if president trump is not prepared to hold putin accountable, the summit in helsinki should not move forward. joining now from london, associated press white house reporter jonathan lemire, and here at the table evan mcmullen, former cia operative. he ran as an independent candidate for president in 2016. "the new york times" op-ed columnist and msnbc contributor brett stevens. and former republican congressman david jolly. jonathan, let's start with you. you're there with the president. any word whatsoever from the administration on this summit with vladimir putin changing, not happening on monday?

>> the president left england a short time ago. in fact, he has since landed in scotland and he's making his way to his golf course in turn bury where he is spending the weekend before that summit in finland on monday. in fact, press secretary sarah huckabee sanders said that is still on. it has not changed in light of today's indictments. it shows you this president is always shadowed by the russia probe. these questions surrounding his involvement with or the possible involvement of his campaign with russian officials back in 2016, whatever links he may have to russian president vladimir putin are just going to be that much at the forefront as we go into monday. you heard the president say yesterday at nato, again today in his press conference, rather wild press conference with prime minister may, that he is going to talk about election meddling with vladimir putin. i'd like to point out, though, he has never really pressed him before. he saw him in germany last year at the g-20. he was with him at vietnam at a

summit there last fall. neither times did he press him on it. in fact, i was there in hanoi when he told us putin said he didn't do it. he insisted he didn't do it. trump said, and he believes himself he didn't do it. only to later suggest, wait, no, he would side with his own intelligence agencies over the russian president, but there is going to be, as the weekend goes on, just further calls for this summit not to happen. >> yeah. >> but the white house wants it to. >> you know, that statement from sarah sanders came out as i was asking you. good job on that. evan, given the president this morning called it a witch hunt and given he's known about these indictments for days, he's still going -- he hasn't yet condemned the russians, condemned the state, even said a word about it publicly. do you think he's going to take it seriously when he sits down with vladimir putin? are we supposed to trust that he's going to push him? there is not going to be a note taker there as far as we know, only a translator. >> yeah, well, look, i think we are all still in the space where we are applying traditional

expectations for a u.s. president to donald trump. and i think that's a mistake. and john mccain, who i have an immense amount of respect for, i think is being very diplomatic and the states man that he is by making that strong statement about what the expectations for trump should be. the reality is that trump continues to cover for putin. he's doing putin's work against nato, against the european union. he's calling the investigation a witch hunt, even on the day that 12 new indictments of russian intelligence officers are announced. i mean, the president is, in my view, under some sort of influence by putin that prevents him from behaving like a regular president. and i don't think we should expect him to do that. >> he behaves this way because donald trump does not believe in the liberal international order that the united states created in the wake of world war ii. >> that's right. >> and we sustained overall of these generations.

>> does he not believe in the sanctity of our democracy as well? >> i don't think donald trump believes in liberal values as you and i understand. i don't mean liberal in the progressive left wing sense. i mean liberal as in free speech, pluralism, democracy, civil rights, and so on. he believes in something much closer to what putin calls sovereign democracy, nationalism, protectionism. it's why both of them find people like angela merkel in germany and theresa may in england weak, despicable and are seeking to undermine them. the ideological affinity between putin and trump is actually rather strong. i mean, we'll find out what bob mueller has to say about collusion on a tactical level, but the real collusion is ideological. >> why are republican voters embracing that? >> this is one of those moments we have to be careful to not get

drawn into a debate over president trump's psychology. what we saw today from rosenstein is a moment in american history, and we should be unequivocal in our response. and the president of the united states should be unequivocal. the monday meeting should be canceled. the bilateral meeting with putin. we should eject russian diplomats and we should bring our u.s. diplomats home from russia. the president is not going to do that and the president has known for days about this and he did not pivot in the press conference today to change his message nor is he changing the meeting. and what americans should feel today -- and i say this carefully -- but we should feel fear. the department of justice today issued a statement on behalf of the united states government saying that one of our greatest adversaries in the world, russia, had intelligence agents interfere with our elections. note that when the department of justice alleges that, that is a position, a statement of the top law enforcement agency in the united states. we should be fearful about the allegation. we should be fearful about the statement of facts.

at the end of the day we should be fearful we have a president who has known about this and did not change his behavior. >> very quickly, to those conservatives who are watching this program right now, let me ask them a question. if the facts were the same but barack obama were president, if we had just indicted 12 russians for interfering in our election and yet president obama was going to meet vladimir putin and doing so against the advice of so many members of his own party, with a suggestion there is a possibility of collusion, what would republican leaders be saying today? i know what they would be saying because in 2012 when president obama had that hot mic moment -- >> after my election. >> republicans went berserk. they ran campaign ads about it. to those republicans and conservatives watching this, just apply the same standard to donald trump that you would have applied to president obama. >> what does it say about our institutions that donald trump is siding with a dictator, or is

more aligned ideologically with how a country should be run, with a dictator than he is with how we actually run things, and the democracy he was born and raise ed in? >> that's right. i think he is aligned with a dictator. he's aligned with the broader authoritarian movement, antidemocratic movement in the world led, in part, by vladimir putin. yes, that's where he is. but that's not where our country is. that's not where most americans are. thankfully, much of our institutional system is still working well. i think congress, the house is failing. the senate is doing better. the department of justice is doing pretty well. but when you have a president that repeatedly attacks these institutions, they come under pressure that eventually starts to create cracks. >> but enough americans are out there that embraced a man who was even siding with vladimir putin during the election and saying these things during the election and talking about a global conspiracy, et cetera.

enough to put him in office. and there is fear among democratic strategists and democrats behind the scenes that the blue wave is not going to be such a wave in the fall. so, what do you say to that if you believe everything is still okay? >> i am hopeful that, call it a blue wave or whatever kind of wave you want, i call it an american wave. i am hopeful that the american people see what's happening now, will say this is unacceptable. this threaten our sovereignty, this threatens our ability to elect our own leaders and hold them accountable. i believe that the american people, i'm hopeful, will respond to this in a way to set it straight, to check the president through congress. now, let me say, the president is still under water with his approval rating. yes, there are millions of people who came out and voted for donald trump. we are as a nation climbing a learning curve here. we have never faced this exact sort of thing. the media is facing or climbing a learning curve. political leaders are climbing a learning curve. some of them refuse to. american voters are. we as a nation are climbing

this, this -- rising to this challenge. i believe we will -- >> are you guys that optimistic? >> no, because it turns out people fall prey to populism and fascism very easily. you have to look at turkey, argentina, all kinds of examples. we are not immune. it can happen here. you're right that some institutions have held up pretty well. the courts, the senate, certainly, you know, looking at what happened with peter strzok the other day. >> the house. >> not the house. one of the things that happens is because trump's outrage has come so fast and furious, it becomes so hard to keep track of them. >> true. >> stalin's famous line is the death of one man is a tragedy. the death of a million is a statistic. one presidential lie is an outrage, but a thousand of them, who can remember? >> he's muddied the waters, he's made it impossible to keep up so whenever you go and report on all these things, it looks like you're piling on when in reality you're just trying to keep up. jonathan, one last one to

you. any preparations whatsoever going to be changed over the weekend given this announcement by rosenstein? >> not that we've been told. our reporting indicates the president will do some preparing this weekend while in scotland at the golf course. katy, i know you know well. he also plans to have time to relax. we certainly expect him on the links, some of his family is there. they have flown in. the first lady, of course is there. and he departs sunday night as planned to helsinki. from what will be the longest meeting he has had with vladimir putin. he will be, as you have indicated, one on one with him for a while, with the translator. later on there will be a few aides in the room. he goes with no set agenda. he wants to trauk a little about cry me why, arms drol. as he said he'll talk about the meddling. we'll see how he does that. and that makes a lot of people nervous. this is a summit that's happening without a real purpose, but rather almost a summit that's happening just to happen. the president was so drawn to

the idea of the one with kim jong-un in singapore and he's told aides since then he loved how it was covered, he loved how it dominated the news. he wants something similar here. we'll take him at his word, he wants to have better relation was russia, he thinks it's good for the world. they'll tackle issues with syria. why do this putin summit now. >> one report i read a couple days ago maybe phil rucker, the president was bragging there were more cameras at the kim jong-un summit than there were at the oscars, as if that was a good thing. also, just go back and read that 2013 tweet where the president said he wanted to be best friends with president putin. that's all we need to know. jonathan lemire, good luck out there. ahead, rod rosenstein's message for anyone get ag head of themselves when it comes to the status of robert mueller's investigation.

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i want to caution you that people who speculate about federal investigations usually do not know all of the relevant facts. we do not try cases on television or in congressional hearings. most anonymous leaks are not from the government officials who are actually conducting these investigations. we follow the rule of law, which means that we follow procedures and we reserve judgment. >> once more from the people in the back, we do not try cases on television or in congressional hearings. a rather pointed comment from the deputy attorney general this afternoon and a timely one as well. consider peter strzok's testimony yesterday on capitol hill. conservative lawmakers, allies of president trump, made him out to be the boogie man of the russia investigation. and although he provided context for the messages that got him in

trouble in the first place, many on the right are using his testimony to dismiss the investigation as a whole. case in point, rudy giuliani. keep in mind what we just heard from rosenstein, that people who speculate about federal investigations usually do not know all of the relevant facts. here is what the former new york mayor thinks. quote, peter strzok's testimony was a disgrace. it taints the entire mueller witch hunt. president trump is being investigated by people who possess pathological hatred for him. all the results of the investigation are fruit of the poison tree and should be dismissed. frank figliuzzi is back with us and joining brett and david at the table, reverend al sharpton, host of politics nation here on nbc and jess mcinto be from the former clinton campaign. wow, that rudy giuliani statement, david, what did you think of republicans yesterday

and their performance with peter strzok? >> they behaved like children, it was a humiliating day to be a republican. we saw it time after time. note also this was not about getting answers from strzok. goodlatte toward the end of the day each get your five minutes but strzok doesn't get to answer. it reminded me of how mccarthy described the benghazi hearing. it was about hurting her poll numbers, not an investigation of facts. that's what we saw yesterday. this is part of the incremental strategy of both trump, yes, those in congress who go along with him to undermine the integrity of the investigation from the very beginning. when he with saw rod rosenstein today, there was a moment, that clip you just played, withhere wondered is he on his way out? he's saying i'm going to move in this direction, i'm going mack a statement about the law and integrity of the country despite what congress and the president might do to me as a result of that. but the reaction is important. the reaction is rnt to. not just what rosenstein said.

trump's reaction and congress's reaction is not to condemn. it's actually to defend and to try to undermine the integrity of the investigation. >> there is news, and we can hopefully put it up on our screen, that some house republic kands are trying -- republicans are working to prepare speech to impeach rod roasenstein. does that say they don't want this man in charge of the mueller investigation to continue on? >> when you look at the fact that this man said what he said about we don't try this on television, we don't try it in hearings, now there are some republican members of congress that want to have him removed. at the same time, you have a president that wants to put on the supreme court someone that says presidents ought not to be investigated. we are moving, moving very close to where there is no accountability in this country and that's very dangerous.

and i think that we are going beyond left, right, liberal, conservative. we're talking about what are the fundamental tenets of this country. i was teasing that i feel like i'm getting older because i'm agreeing with brent and starting to read his columns in "the new york times." i mean, are we actually saying that president trump was told that 12 russians were going to be indicted, with that knowledge he still called this a witch hunt after being told this, went on to europe and began this badgering and he's going on anyway to meet with the russian president? he shouldn't meet with him unless he was going to demand he extradite those 12 russians to stand trial. he should bring someone from the justice department when the aides are allowed in and say, would you extradite -- i know we don't have an extradition agreement but would you do it? that would be the only way he could justify meeting with putin. i wouldn't hold my breath until

she gets finished talking, but i'm giving something that's suggesting that the only way that you could even remotely justify trump meeting with putin. >> jess, what do you think? >> trump can't stand up to angela merkel or theresa may. >> that is so true. >> he trash talks them. >> when the camera is rolling he can berate them. >> trump is a coward and he always has been. he has this strong man, bully appearance. he doesn't like firing people. he won't do it. it's tough to fire somebody. i've fired people. it's not a pleasant thing to go through. he's not willing to. he'll tweet while you're sitting on the tarmac. i was happy we saw that spectacle yesterday. i think it's important every now and then for what happens in the conservative echo bubble to spill over into reality every now and then. if you tune in to conservative media outlets, you will hear nothing but strzok and page as evidence that the fbi is

hopelessly corrupt. the second that spills over into actual reality, where you are hearing from both sides, where facts are introduced, where the man himself is a you loed to talk about what he did or said and why, it becomes immediately apparent their house of cards -- >> when you mention mccarthy, referring to kevin, i was thinking of a very different -- >> that's where i went, too. >> that's what it really felt like. >> are you prepared to go that far and make that comparison? >> this is a mccarthyite hearing in which -- joe mccarthy -- >> brent, i never thought i'd say that. >> in which a public servant, a fallible hughes man being was accused of some kind of deep state conspiracy. that's what joe mccarthy said, the stapt department was controlled by communists and nefarious agents. the good thing about that hearing, it gave agent strzok an opportunity to simply apply common sense and logic for the

first time -- >> let's play some of what he said. he tried to put those texts into context and i think that is so important to go back to 2016 and remember what was happening at the time he was sending texts. and also probably think back and wonder what republicans were saying publicly at the time. first, let's listen to the texts where he is referring to nato. listen. >> i would encourage you as i believe -- i forget who i said this to earlier this morning -- you need to read these texts in the context of what was going on at the time. so, when i make the comment about trump having no idea how destabilizing his presidency would be, that came on the heels where then candidate trump said he didn't know whether or not the united states should honor its commitment to mutual defense under nato. >> i appreciate that. mr. chairman, thank you very much. mr. chairman, in light of these actual -- >> no, no, no. >> everyone will suspend. i told the gentleman he could

answer briefly. he has answered briefly. >> he has not finished answering. >> we will now turn to the gentle woman from washington, d.c. for her questions. >> notice they cut him off when he started to put the text into context. let's listen to the other time, the we will stop him text. here's what was happening when peter strzok sent that message. >> i think it's important when you look at those texts that you understand the context in which they were made and the things that were going on across america. in terms of the texts that we will stop it, you need to understand that that was written late at night, off the cuff, and it was in response to a series of events that included then candidate trump insulting the immigrant family of a fallen war hero. and my presumption, based on that horrible, disgusting behavior, that the american population would not elect somebody demonstrating that behavior to be president of the united states. it was in no way unequivocally

any suggestion that me, the fbi, would take any action whatsoever to improperly impact the electoral process. >> think of the context he gives. hey, frank, what do you think of the context he gives? >> yeah, so listen, they clearly didn't want to hear the truth. they couldn't handle the truth, as jack nicholson would say to you. a couple thoughts, katy. first, if people are wondering what kind of man is this pete strzok, what does he do for a living, what kind of work is this counter intelligence division capable of that he comes from. read the indictment and you'll see the kind of amazing work that fbi people do every single day. secondly, katy, i've thought long and hard about yesterday's hearing. i watched most of it painfully, and then reading it in the context of today's indictment, and i think what we're seeing is a shift from pure political

interest, which is obvious and saving their own butts, moving into an atmosphere of fear. i sense increasing fear. and when you look at the indictment today, what i'm intrigued by is we're talking a lot about the hacking that went on into the dnc. we're talking about hacking into hillary's e-mails and others. but read the indictment and look at the democratic congressional campaign that was hacked into. we don't -- we were need to know more about that. what did the russians do when they were inside the network and the systems of the congressional campaign? why were they doing that? what members of congress on the republican side may they have been assisting? and what are the concerns of those republican members when they attack this investigation, what do they think or know that may have aided them that links back to russia.

>> weren't republicans trashing trump talt? >> they were. even if you impugn strzok's character, he was removed from the investigation. it does not absolve the culpability of the russians that interfered in the election nor donald trump's behavior. there is only one person of those three actors. trump, the russians and strzok willing to go under oath and it was peter strzok, not donald trump. >> that sums it up. my thanks to frank figliuzzi. when we come back, clean up on aisle 45. now that trump has left england, who is left cleeb cleaning up his latest diplomatic mess? (door bell rings) it's open! hey. this is amazing.

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so try febreze one. with no aerosols and no heavy perfumes. so you can spray and stay. febreze one. donald trump and the first lady are now at his golf club in turnberry, scotland. leaving england and leaving everyone trying to reconcile what just happened over the last two days. a visit by the president filled with chaos and discord and cleanup. the interview trump did with "the sun" trashing prime minister may and the desperate walk-back we saw him give while standing right next to her.

>> i would say i give our relationship in terms of grade the highest level of special, so we start off with special. i would give our relationship with the uk, and now, especially after this two days with your prime minister, i would say the highest level of special. am i allowed to go higher than that? i'm not sure. but it's the highest level of special. they're very special people, it's a very special country. >> the highest level of special means i'll trash you to a newspaper, i guess. all as thousands of protesters flooded the streets of london. bret stephens can't stop laughing. vladimir putin could not ask for much more. our panel is still here. bret, i'll give it to you because you're laughing. >> it just reminds me of that scene in "spinal tap," he takes it to 11, that highest level of

special. it's so especially absurd given that he's like some kind of guest who ambles in your home, pees on your family carpet, destroys your family urn, wrecks your furniture, says send me the bill and doesn't pay. that is the nearest equivalent -- >> he didn't call eddie murphy special after he did it. the absurdity is for him to stand there, this is the most widely circulated newspaper in england. >> it's a murdoch newspaper. >> and for him to do this interview and then to stand there with her goes to what you said, he's a bully. he can't stand in front of someone and confront them. you know, i've watched him for decades and every time he sees you, he's like your best friend. he called me after he won the election. he does not confront you face to face. >> he called for me to get fired publicly. i had to get walked out of a rally by secret service.

he called me two weeks later and said we should be friends, seriously on the phone. >> after he called for you to be fired. >> disgraceful and third rate. >> listen to "the new york times" editorial. no, sorry, nato, trump doesn't believe in allies but in mr. trump's world there no longer is any concept of alliances. peering through mr. trump's twisted prism one finds not friends and enemies action but fans and enemies. fans are those loyal to you no matter what, they never expect reciproci reciprocity. enemies are also valuable because they help you solve problems. you can assert your power by breaking them or befriending the them. >> there's a little bit more than that. i think that's entirely correct that that's the way he sees it, but there's the added element of the strong men that he worships. putin may be a fan of his. he certainly sees him as useful when it comes to keeping a leg up on the united states. i don't know if he likes or respects or says anything

particularly great about donald trump, but trump worships him. the same thing happened with kim, with north korea. he's not a fan of trumps. he says terrible things about donald trump all the time. >> he's a very honorable man. >> he just worships the strong men. >> that's the man he wants to be. >> he doesn't believe in our allies, but he does believe in making strategic allegiances with dictators that he wants to emulate and that is terrifying. >> i will say this is a story that posted today on nbc news. pentagon goes into damage control mode to reassure nato allies. if that sounds familiar, take a look at these headlines. pence launches midwest damage control mission. trump officials kick into damage control mode with candidate. seeking to heel a rift, tillerson pledges new aid to africa. trump officials do damage control after staff turmoil. trump returns to crisis over kushner as white house tries to contain it, may 2017.

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boy, it was fun sitting in for nicolle on this of all days. >> you're special. the highest level of special. >> my thanks to reverend sharpton, bret stephens and david jolly. that does it for this hour, i'm katy tur in for nicolle wallace. "mtp daily" starts now with chuck. hi, chuck. >> katy, i'm thinking about taking this hour off. do you have time to anchor another hour? >> sure, why not? >> just keep going. >> take it away. you're going to knock 'em dead today. >> thank you. well, it's friday the 13th, who's feeling unlucky these days? the nightmare scenario for the trump/putin summit. tonight, new indictments in the mueller probe. >> the indictment charges 12 russian military officers by name for conspiring to interfere with the 2016 presidential election. >> so why is the president sti