that's how we're going to make sure we return to exporting the values of opportunity inclusion that always made america great and will always make america great. >> that does it for "all in" catch us every week night here at 8:00 on msnbc. bob mueller indicting russians for hacking. this is friday, july 13th and a special counsel probe that donald trump spent his presidency degrading in which house republicans blasted in that nearly ten-hour hearing yesterday in which hangs over trump's foreign tour and putin's upcoming summit. tonight that probe has reached the indictment of russian meddling in american history. the security of the upcoming midterms and, most importantly, implications for potential

further charges right here in the united states. now, tonight, on the beat we have special coverage of all and a former roger stone associate. but, first, i bring you the facts tonight. tonight's indictment not aimed at say a lawyer who did work for trump associates like some past indictments. not aimed at unknown political operatives like george papadopoul papadopoulos. no, tonight, the who is quite clear and disturbing. mueller aiming squarely at top russian military intelligence officers. the white is a conspiracy to interfere in the 2016 election. the charges are conspiracy to commit an offense against the u.s., identity theft and money laundering among others. that means that right now we know more about bob mueller's strategy for pressing this case going forward than ever before. the political world talks a lot

about collusion, as we've reported, though, the key word tonight is conspiracy. mueller stating the object of this conspiracy was to hack u.s. campaign officials, steal documents and then interfere with the 2016 election. how did they do it? i'm going to read to you now some key allegations from this indictment. russian agents hacking over 3 million accounts and that includes 2.5 giga bytes of data. they did not steal and release this material, but instead explains they released it in stages. that's how this information was stolen and weaponized. we have to also consider how everyone is looking at whether this would happen again. >> we need to work together to hold the perpetrators accountable. and we need to keep moving forward to preserve our values, protect against future

interference and defend america. >> that means defending america in the midterms, presumably. if watergate was a domestic burglary that brought down a presidency. today mueller is alleging a burglary in cyberspace launched by an adversary in this international conspiracy. is this worse than watergate? it is a question you probably heard before. bob mueller is pointing out this operation was certainly bigger than watergate and certainly lasted longer than the watergate break in. whether it involves top political officials remains an open question. so, consider all that and then add this. tonight is the first time the united states has charged russians for stealing information on american voters. that's a whole other piece of this indictment alleging that they, the russians were hacking a website of state board of elections and stealing information not about 100 or

1,000 voters but about half a million of them. names, addresses, social security number, dates of birth, i.d. numbers. what state did that happen in? what happened to that information? this indictment doesn't tell us that but half a million voters is a lot. an impact on a state like say, michigan, that was decided ultimately by 10,704 votes. indictment also raises new questions about this moment in the 2016 campaign. >> russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. >> well, bob mueller puts that in this indictment and this may be one of the most disturbing things because i can report to you for the first time tonight that it was the same day july 27, 2016 that trump said that and the russians began, quote, for the first time hacking e-mails affiliated with the clinton campaign.

we have a range in our coverage and we begin with bill kristol, former federal prosecutor and evan a russia expert and diplomat. john, what speaks to you in this indictment? >> the thing that speaks to me is what i expect we'll see in our next indictment, the kind of one, two, three of the mueller investigation, which is pinning the tail on the donkey, being the in the west wing. two critical dates. you may notice on june 8th, these russians set up a special website, a facebook page and a twitter account all of which was to disperse all the e-mails they've stolen from the dnc and the next day they have a meeting at trump tower and published as a meeting that was going to give information to the trump campaign to go forward against hillary clinton. and then we have later in june,

we have another request for information. because they were afraid that the bernie sanders people would go with hillary after the nomination battle in july. and, so, about a month later, they had collected information and they did exactly that. they released it. days after they released that information the quote you put on the screen is the one that trump stated which is more. give us more and they did that evening, according to this investigation. >> you're suggesting that this indictment tonight adds detail to the theory of the case that donald trump was not joking, was not being reckless and making a rhetorical point but was actually publicly, actively trying to conspire with a foreign power in those remarks? is that what you're exploring? >> absolutely. he was taking an overt act in this conspiracy with russia to get elected in exchange for whatever his deal was with putin that they'll probably confirm in

a couple days when they ask each other what to do behind closed doors. this has been a conspiracy, a conclusion and explains why trump gave the false statement about the meeting was on june 9th. it was about adoptions of russian children. >> you're bearing down on something bill kristol and i have discussed before that donald trump is sophisticated about his defense here. bill, john is quoting from page 13 of this indictment which says on june 8th these russians launched d.c. leaks and they use it to release stolen e-mails and he's pointing to the fact it was the next day you had the trump tower meeting and the donald trump we now know has been exposed in interfering with the trump tower meeting which he did not attend and there's never been, bill, a very good benign why the president involved himself in something he would only have second-hand information about if he is innocent, bill. >> i think that john could be right. i would say the more modest

version of this, mueller goes out of his way to put a couple dates in this indictment that he doesn't need. the july 27th date is put in. it doesn't add anything. it is not required that he shows that and knows that. he wants us to go do some research and discover trump said what he said on july 27th which you played and mentioned and john mentioned. what is striking about that, you guys are prosecutors, i'm not. why does he do that? signaling an awful lot of people out there. we know everything. think of what he has to know to be able to say, he has to have access to communications presumably among these russians and between these russians and people else where. people running wikileaks and so forth and also, presumably, communications between the russians and others perhaps in the united states. if you're on the fence whether to flip and if you're on the fence, gee, maybe i can get away with this. you look at this indictment and you think, maybe i should place a call here to the special prosecutors office or someone in

the justice department and say, maybe i will come clean. i think for michael cohen and paul manafort because he is already indicted and for many, many others and many others we don't know much about at this point. this is a signal that mueller knows an awful lot. assuming there is some collusion with americans, which i think is pretty hard to doubt at this point, i think this is his way of signaling those americans, you know, let's play ball here. >> in the first indictment -- >> let me go to evelyn and back to you, john. >> all right. >> what strikes me, ari, no 400-pound guy in new jersey, 12 faces with names and mueller actually lays out the organization. he says these are the two guys in charge. here are the people who did x, y and z. most of them were actually taking information out and a couple of them were then sending the information into that, you know, the twitter sphere and the other part of it or the other indictments that we have already seen from him. those are the social media

folks. the iri and they took that data that was stolen. so, we're seeing the picture coming together very accurately and the other thing, i think, i would absolutely agree with the point it's demonstrating how good our intelligence is. i have gotten in trouble coming on tv saying, i know, i know. what i meant is in my gut. because i know we have good intelligence on russia. what administration officials were saying is well informed and this is proof. >> and, john, i will put up on the screen some of the more important pieces of this that mullser putting out. person in regular contact with the senior members and shows the russians had a request for stolen documents from a candidate for the u.s. congress. wow. and that russians were contacting u.s. reporters with an offer to provide these stolen e-mails. to bill's point as, shall we say, a logical, journalistic analyst who also worked in the

white house, bill kristol, and your view as a prosecutor, both of you know and evelyn knows, he doesn't need to mention those things for these charges. what does he do? >> the irish like to do it one, two, three. three-act play. the first act was how the machinery was set up in the first place with all this bogus ways to contact people and to spew information out. that, i thought, was an indictment to shake the tree that would help identify people that may have helped in the second phase. in the second phase is precursor to the final chapter or the final act in this play. and it's going to be to identify the people in the campaign, in the trump campaign right up to, i think, the obstruction activities of mr. trump. and that's going to be when the curtain falls down and i think that there is enough notice given to the target of the

investigation. mr. trump and his associates that that's why we're getting such a persistent, strong pushback. now, the congressman is important because it shows we have another country -- >> candidate. >> well, we have another country -- >> congressional candidate. >> candidate, yes. and the way it's described in the indictment, he knows that these documents are stolen. >> right. >> now, whether or not the fact and the evidence supports that. that is a very strong accusation and this person is involved in a crime himself in which the documents were intercepted in federal law. >> it seems to show, john. he is certainly implying, bob mueller, that he's willing to per se that, indict candidates who traffic in stolen material. now, john and evelyn are staying with me. i want to get your view on one more thing. take a listen to how this statement from donald trump days ago sounds given that the doj confirmed today that at the time he was making a statement he

already knew that these russian agents were going to be charged for this very serious crime. take a look. >> we will, of course, ask your favorite question about meddling. i will be asking that question, again. well, he may. i mean, look, he may. he may deny it. it's one of those things is say did you and don't do it again. but he may deny. well, you'll be the first to know. >> bill, how does that look now? >> and this morning i think he said it was a rigged witch-hunt the whole investigation, right? briefed that 12 russians senior officials and their government and their intelligence service are going to be indicted with all this evidence behind them and that he still calls it a witch-hunt. he's doubling down and not going to go gently into the good night here and he's going to look at pardons and look at doing things at the justice department, i think, to derail this investigation if he feels really under threat. >> bill kristol, we appreciate you joining our special coverage.

i'll turn to the other panelists and bring in another voice. mueller charges come a day after the house republicans were hammering a former investigator on this probe. my next guest, florida congresswoman val questioned the entire motivation yesterday. >> i never thought as a law enforcement officer i'd ever have to defend the department of justice from my republican colleagues on the other side of the aisle. >> florida congresswoman val is here along with a former congressperson from the other side, tom coleman. he wrote earlier this year there is no longer, quote a fantasy to raise the question of whether donald trump committed, quote, treason. put today's indictment in the context of what house republicans were doing yesterday. >> well, first of all, ari, thank you so much for having me on your show. >> sure. >> look, yesterday was absolutely painful. it just showed me the extent that my colleagues on the other side of the aisle would go to to protect the president as opposed

to pursuing the truth. i mean, i think that's what we all want. but, today, today was really, i think, a sad day in american history. 12 military operatives from russia acting in their official capacity charged. and i think it sends a clear message that vladimir putin is very much aware of what was going on. the interference in our election, the effort to undermine our democracy. discord and when we also know that the president, every time he speaks of putin, it's almost from a position of weakness and not a position of strength. i just want to see the end of this case and see where it takes us. >> do you think yesterday's attacks on a former member of this team in light of today's charges and that donald trump was warned about them earlier something inappropriate or a

particular style of mccarthyism against a legilegitimate investigation? >> as a former law enforcement officer i used to say where there's smoke, there's fire. i just believe that looking at the anger yesterday, the desperation yesterday to basically undermine agent struck. even though it was inappropriate, he admitted that from the very beginning. but the efforts to undermine or discredit him but what shocked me more, ari, was the effort to undermine the reputation of long-standing, good reputation of the entire federal bureau of investigation. i believe it shows the desperation of the white house and the desperation of my republican colleagues, at least on the judiciary and oversight committee to cover for him. >> a former republican colleague from the house, congressman

coleman here has spoken out earlier. i want to read for you what the president's lawyer rudy giuliani is say about this, the other side of the table. the indictments are good news, rupgz russians are nailed. number one, your response to that and, number two, how does your past decision to raise the question of treason look in light of today's indictment to you? >> thank you, ari, for having me on the show. rudy giuliani is, i don't know if he's a performance artist or a lawyer or a friend of the president, but he doesn't make sense. the fact of the matter is, i would not go out if i were he and declare my innocence because i wasn't charged in this indictment. there is going to be more indictments. as john said earlier, he is setting the table for the next shoe to drop. two analogies that were put together. but the point of it is, we have for the first time confirmation

that what happened in this instance was state sponsored cyberattacks. >> right. >> that is different from what we heard before with the other 13 people that have been indicted. these people who were officials of the government and used to call them kgb agents. >> and that government is led by vladimir putin, who the president is about to meet with. in your view, is the president's preparations and public comments for that meeting make him look more or less guilty? >> i don't think he's prepared. i have dealt with the former communist party and the kgb when i was a member of congress. and they know what they're doing. they're tough. they're in your face. he'll fold like an accordion if they do with that with him. the problem is that donald trump has not condemned these hackings and these cyberattacks on our democracy. it's always about him. how does it affect the image of him, his victory, the size of the victory.

it's never about the country. it's never about our democracy. it's about him. i think he needs to condemn what went on, cancel the meeting and if he doesn't cancel the meeting, ariy think he is giving us reason to believe that he's not just falling into the hands of putin, he may already be in the hands of putin. >> i'm running late on time and especially from the former republican congressperson like yourself. congresswoman demings, do you think he should leave this meeting. >> i was shocked he had no intentions to cancel the meeting. he should definitely cancel the meeting. not prepared before today's announcement and certainly not prepared after. >> to the congresswoman and the former congressman, i thank you both. sam and back with me for context, evelyn farkas. people in politics say, oh, we knew there was hacking. the man you used to work for

donald trump and many people around him long and still doubt about who did it, how it happened and whether it mattered. do you think today's indictment, which donald trump was briefed on should change his mind about undermining both the fact that the russians did this and attacking the probe? >> well, first of all, i think that this should change the mind of any republican voter that doesn't want to vote this midterm because donald trump will be impeached by a democrat congress, if you look at this indictment. the fact that they would release this indictment before his meeting with putin, too. >> you think this is a predicate for impeachment, why? >> mueller is clearly setting up the narrative. the next indictment is coming, i assume, roger and maybe others. it's been reported by cnbc. i was never asked about this that somebody was asked about a meeting roger had now his name -- the one who worked for manafort. right under him. >> rick gates. >> he had a meeting with him. who knows what they talked about with the e-mails.

>> rick gates, of course, has pled guilty. >> and is cooperating. >> and is cooperating. you say today you think it's more likely that roger stone will be indicted? >> i think from the very beginning as i said after i left the grand jury, roger was, it would be nice to say he was a subject. he was clearly a target. my question -- >> that was clear to you in the way that you were being questioned? >> yes, i said that to you before. it was 100%. >> you said before it was like they were trying to set up a perjury trap, which hadz hs to with statements testifying. this does not look like perjury, sam. this looks like laying out the predicate for the fact that roger stone was talking to the russian military agent who were claiming to be and they went in and pretended they weren't russian. had a romanian cover story and roger backed that up, too. do you think roger may have knowingly committed a crime as he went down that road? >> i had this argument with him. i talked about this publicly. i said to him, i don't know why

you're associating yourself with these people so publicly. our intelligence community has said that the russians did it. and he says to me that he didn't believe the russians hacked. >> do you think roger is that stupid is the question. >> i think roger is conspiratorial. i think roger alex jones -- >> that defense that you're sharing and i appreciate you coming on -- >> this is all i know. >> you're explaining what you know. let me finish. you're explaining your understanding of the situation. that theory of the case to defend roger suggests that roger stone is stupid or a novice. you and i have both dealt with him. he strikes me as neither of those things. >> roger is someone who does not trust in the government sometimes. and it has seen information put out. i disagree. it was clear that putin did this. i think putin is not an ally, he's an adversary. by the way, the president should confront putin about this publicly in his press conference with him. >> you think that donald trump should do that, do you think he will do that?

>> i hope so. >> evelyn? >> you know where i stand. if the president meets with putin which i thought was a horrible idea before this, but it's still a horrible idea. even worse now unless he comes back with 26 russians in handcuffs because we need them extradited now. >> as a matter of diplomacy, does it look weak and soft to go give putin this meeting after this has been exposed? >> you are leading the witness, yes. i mean, you don't -- >> sam, would i need a witness? >> you're leading the witness. right now the russians, this kremlin. this russian government only understands firmness. if the president goes and meets with putin, i mean, unless he takes his shoe off like the former head of the russian the soviet government and pounds it on the table publicly, he's not going to appear firm to putin privately nor to the russian people, nor to the russian government and the russian military, et cetera.

the russians will only stop their meddling. remember, they're still meddling. they will only stop it today if our president is firm. >> evelyn farkas with the we will bury you reference. >> quickly. >> quickly and then i'll play something. >> this shows why the special counsel affects and releasing this indictment today was selective. i don't know why they had to do it. i love this indictment from the point of view that we're holding the russians accountable and i hope these people never enter the united states. this is our president of the united states. >> hold on. let me push you on that. there's nothing new. there's nothing new about the doj going after spies when they operate here. it goes through. the president was briefed in advance. you're not alleging anything wrong with that process. >> i don't think the president could have delayed this. what happened if the president or his white house said -- >> why would you want to delay this? why would you want to be tough

when the facts show interference in our elections. >> we have to meet with this guy, why don't we do it the next friday. >> let me play for you the other part. organization number one is named in this indictment and appears to be wikileaks and appears that did more than release information which is sort of old school wikileaks transparency and involved to try to help your former candidate, the trump campaign with the timing and then you have the fact that donald trump was very publicly boisterous about wikileaks during the campaign. take a look. >> this just came out. this just came out. wikileaks. i love wikileaks. >> you see so much from the wikileaks. unveils horrible, horrible things about hillary clinton. >> boy, that wikileaks has done a job on her, hasn't it? >> do you think during the campaign trump or his team had an actual understanding of what his team had in here today regarding wikileaks and the

russians. >> i kdid not communicate with them. everybody on the republican conservative and media side. i saw this and i thought it was hypocritical wanting to be when they said it wasn't the russians. >> the benign interpretation is that a lot of people shade a lot of things for their team. a benign interpretation. what we keep learning with the coordination whether donald trump sounded so loving about wikileaks because he knew something. hang with me. evelyn, thanks for your experti expertise. how today's indictment carries national security implications. mueller not only indicting the 12 agents but putin's famous denials. >> you and the russian government did never try to influence the outcome of the u.s. presidential election and there will be no evidence found. >> translator: watch my lips. i said no. >> no. well, today, mueller says yes

tracing this hacking of our election all the way back to two buildings in moscow housing putin's own intelligence officers. the theory of the case that mueller did all sorts of things to hurt the campaign including malicious code and deleting files and stealing social security numbers in america. also cast a wide net. you can see here, they went after many others in the democratic party beyond clinton. over 300 people and mueller alleging these russian officers recruited and deployed to hide putin's footprints. the idea was to trick you, if you're watching, as an american voter into thinking that that damaging information coming out about clinton maybe came from some more neutral sources. getting a leg up during the campaign as he embraced these leaks. russia went another step further and i was just discussing this with sam stratogizing allegedly with americans and timing the leaks of stolen material to

maxemax s maxmize the damage to clinton. john and sam is riding along for any thoughts you may have. john, walk us through what this means when you see the nature of the russian operation and the idea that there was american intel or american expertise along for the ride. >> i think it's a disgraceful sign of betraying our country. and anybody who would participate in that deserves exposure to the most serious criminal punishment. i'm fascinated by the continuing lie by putin that we ask trump to ask him, do you really believe what you're saying? and if they're both in the same conspiracy as i suspect and believe that many do, then they're both part of a public lie. both are going to say that, oh, i didn't do anything said putin

and trump is going to say, well, that's what he said. that's the way it must be. i think the law and the truth are ultimately going to bring down at least this fellow that he h we have in the white house presently. the question is, when you think about it, we talk about the russians. puten and being compared if we don't do something, trump will bury us. already compromised the function of government and taken our allies and because they cooperated in the intelligence and that made it possible. we're withdrawing from economic alliances that made our lifestyle what it is. is he doing this for putin or just bad and evil and judgment for what is best for americans. the implications of this conspiracy are enormous and dangerous and roger stone is not the only one who is invaurveled in this and there's a whole host of characters and we had no

contacts with russians and now we know 11 or 13 or how many specifically documented. so, i think that we're in a place where we're really fighting to keep the republic as benjamin franklin, you have a republic, if you can keep it. this man is endangering it and he's unamerican and he is a criminal and until we do something about it, this nation will be at risk. >> sam. >> well, i have a lot of criticisms of him, personally. but to say he's a criminal and not an american he cares about this country and a different view of the country and to talk about what the economy is doing and not get into his accomplishments here but this is one perspective which, once again, shows that donald trump's presidency is on the line in the midterms. and we're going to have to find out mueller has played a very good game here. he has, look, prosecutors and this gentleman has said it. they set up narratives. he has a narrative here to

impeach the president which the democrats, if they control the house will impeach him on. if the republicans control the house, we'll have to get into whether this is too circumstantial as a conspiracy. i have no doubt the russians hacked. i think the president, once again, will be well served, if he confronts putin the same way m maco macron did and we can put this to rest. >> you seem to think that this new indictment goes further in the case that democrats and some republicans, depending on their views might use to say if this goes to the top, something has to be done to hold someone accountable. otherwise, you have potentially an election conspiracy that changes the outcome of who's in control of the country. how could you not deal with that, if it goes that far? >> rosenstein said i do believe in the press conference that this does not affect the election outcome. >> he did say that? >> he did say that.

number two, i can make the case that trump has been very hard on putin, not publicly. but look at what putin -- >> secretly. >> which is a mistake by him politically. he inherited very tough sanctions and put more sanctions on putin. you know -- >> i hear john flanary grumbling. we get the whole range of views. i'm so over on time, john, you have to go quickly. >> well, i think that we're so far past it with this president. he makes errors in every direction and when has a president ever been treated with a baby floated over head and a nation that is our ally. >> i would not call him a baby. i think it's well documented. he can appreciate that. but what i'm going to do is go on to my next guest who i have especially booked for a different perspective on this and i'm thankful for john and sam to make time for us tonight. as we turn the page, bob mueller's indictment marches on.

they raise suspicion on how much the russian operation shape the race and what if questions that are intense for both sides. losing by the narrowest margins and trump fans who feel they were underestimated the whole campaign only to find their victory greeted by a delegitimizing story. now now, i say that because mueller's boss showed the divide. warning to trump allies who did potentially benefit from russia's crimes. >> we confront foreign interference in american elections. it's important for us to avoid thinking politically as republicans or democrats. instead to think patriotically as americans. our response must not depend on which side is victimized. the blame for election interference belongs to the criminals who committed election interference. >> but one side was victimized.

i'm now joined by top clinton official hack during that campaign. a man who chaired the party that was hacked. today's indictment showing while my guests there was fighting trump, there was a second front in that war. quote, anything hillary related at the exact time that could overshadow the nominating convention and take a look, it sort of worked. >> we already have our first major controversy. >> the e-mails which reopened a riff in the democratic party as it tries to present a united front. >> we can see signs of intense disunity in the arena. >> disunity that everyone agrees was caused by those timed e-mail leaks and then within days trump said this. >> russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find 30,000 e-mails that are missing. i think you will probably be

rewarded mightily by our press. >> and look at the other side of your screen. the political world tonight processing this charge in the mueller indictment that trump said that and russia began hacking clinton staff e-mails for the first time the same day he made that request. i'm joined now by top aide to hillary clinton who was hacked during this campaign. center of american progress and former dnc chair howard dean. your response? >> you know, i think that i'm really gratified that the department of justice actually investigated and found that the specific russians who targeted americans, who stole from americans in order to influence the election. the fact that we have an impartial enough department of justice and really mueller investigation to actually find the truth is vital for our democracy. i think it's, frankly, insane

that the president of the united states is going to have a summit with putin and after we have these facts in front of us, i would call on the president to not have a summit. to actually be a president for all of americans and act in the defense of our country. at the very least say to putin that your acts against america are intolerable because i do not trust that's possible from a president who is aided and, you know, we may still have evidence that he colluded directly for these results. i think the president needs to basically cancel the summit. >> governor dean, raised a foreign policy implications. it is so remarkable to learn today that donald trump was briefed and knew that we were moving as a country further at

indicting these russian military agents for this election interference for what is called in the law, quote, a conspiracy against the united states farther than we've ever gone. and that with that knowledge he went out and praisedpu putin an said that would be the easiest meeting on this trip. your person who didn't replace you immediately, but someone who has come after you to chair the dnc has said this about it today. >> what he ought to do is hand him over his indictments. demand the immediate extradition of all involved and that is what he should be doing. he is playing into the hands of putin right now. >> your view, governor? >> i think that's true. look, trump, i have long said i think he's crazy and i think he is. there's -- this has been a disastrous foreign trip and it's not going to get better when he meets with vladimir putin who just had 12 of his people indicted. this nonsense this is all some

plot or fake news or whatever trump calls it, 33 indictments including guilty pleas from an impartial grand jury. i mean, the american people who are presumably populated in this grand jury think that there is something to this. we have not yet gotten to the nub of the question. we have now established that is incredibly likely that the russians did hack. now we have to find out if they have done it with the trump campaign and it looks like they may well have. >> neera, this was something that your candidate mentioned at debates and you tried to get a traction for, do you think this is why you lost the election? >> hillary clinton lost the election by 70,000 votes across three states. the idea that wall-to-wall wikileaks coverage driven by donald trump and his 164 mentions of wikileaks in the last month of the campaign did

not create 70,000 votes across those three states. none of us will know. the idea that anyone can say that it did not actually create the loss. we can't say that. and i think that is what we have to recognize, which is, the russians did this for a purpose. it was to help elect donald trump and he was elected in a very close, competitive election in which their work was used in the national media daily with a constant drip, drip, drip. that is why i think this information is important. i think it's really vital so we get to the bottom of whether there was direct engagement by donald trump himself. i will remind all of our viewers of one simple fact. which is, the wikileaks dumps started within minutes of the "access hollywood" video going live. the idea that there is no connection seems to me we have to get to the bottom of that.

because at the end of the day, whether donald trump new about this before the election is the central question and over the last year we have learned stronger and stronger and stronger connections. >> bob mueller has moved further on it tonight that's for sure. thank you, both. we're fitting in our first break as part of our special coverage who is mueller looking at next? stay with me. owners always smiling? because they've chosen the industry leader. subaru outback holds its value better than any other vehicle in its class, according to alg. better than rav4. better than grand cherokee. better than edge. make every adventure a happy one with subaru outback. get 0% apr financing on the 2018 subaru outback. [stomach gurgles] ♪when you have nausea, heartburn, indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea... girl, pepto ultra coating

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it gives you super fast speeds for all your devices, provides the most wifi coverage for your home, and lets you control your network with the xfi app. it's the ultimate wifi experience. xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome. our special coverage continues now and i'm joined by our friend howard fineman who has been talking with roger stone today. what have you learned, howard? >> well, i learned that roger stone is defiant, he's playing for time. he's issuing through me a couple of statements that go to denying the particulars that people may assume from the indictment today. and also raising questions about how the federal prosecutors might actually prove this case

against the russians since it's unlikely that the russians will ever show up. to read you the second tweet for him. i asked him, text, that is. roger, when did you learn that it was the russians? he said today that is still an allegation and unproven at trial. do you expect the russians to show up for trial? will there be an inspection of the dnc servers to prove the government's allegations? in other words, what he's saying is if you come after me, i'm going to counter with demanding to see all the dnc servers which is, of course, republicans have wanted to do for a long time. and i will say this, also, he knows as does paul manafort and the two of them have known each other and worked on and off together for 35 years. they know that their chief protectors here, ironically enough, are donald trump and vladimir putin. there are no two people in the

united states more interested, other than bob mueller, in what is said over in helsinki than roger stone -- >> do you think mueller is trying to use the indictment to scare other people into cooperation? >> no question. and roger can be as defiant as he wants. there are other people here and the key question now is now that the witch-hunt has found in moscow who knew what when and who communicated with them knowingly. you don't have to know the identity of the person you're in a conspiracy with but you have to know about illegal behavior. everybody in washington knew that the russians were behind this. the notion that roger stone didn't have a clue is ridiculous. >> i appreciate that fact check. something we were exploring earlier. howard, we appreciate you joining us with your reporting. up next, the reverend al sharpton reaction to this

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we've got more reaction on those mueller charges today and since this is the beat, we might get into some other i'm joined by rev al sharpton. top 100 artist who's collapse rated with macy winner macy gra. and rapper young paris who's on jay z's label rock nation. this is quite a panel if i could say so. rev, when you look at this week's news, what's on your mind? >> i look at what happened with the whole question of this mueller indictment. i think when you see 12 russians. they informed the president in advance. he still called a witch hunt and is going to meet with the president of russia. other than if he's going to say i want you to extradite the 12 russians, what would he be doing in the room? >> what's there to talk about?

>> what's there to talk about. so i think we're getting close to him really showing his true nature. >> what's on your mind? >> the fbi hearing, it was crazy. the questions were all over the place. like, who's on third, what's on second. and then the guy's like, i've been instructed not to answer that question. and it was just crazy to me. then the lady joins in at the end and asks the one guy, have you taken your medication, you know, so i was just watching that, like, what's going on. >> well, republicans have finally found something they don't like about part of the fbi for the first time. >> first time in history. when you think of how they are discrediting, the fbi, the pros ugs co prosecutions and investigations. when we did it, we were unpatriotic.

now you have republicans doing this. it's amazing to me. i think you're seeing the world look at this country saying what's going on. i was watching the president in england today and i was there three weeks ago when a lot of the progressives were getting ready for the march. it's almost like we're the laughingstock of the world because of our inconsistency as a country. i think everybody's seeing that because of donald trump. >> the thing i want to flag is something we touched on earlier in the show. mueller saying you have them posing as a fake hacker. and working with the u.s. congressional candidate for stolen documents. relating to the candidate's opponent. i mean, this is scary stuff. anyone who looks at this should care about what's happening to our democracy. not which side might benefit in

the short run. >> they're saying black lives matter, they had quotes, many of us that were dealing with the question of what happened in ferguson. this is frightening and it sets all of us up and we all should feel vulnerable about it. >> this is not your normal summer friday. young paris, i got to meet you. we do more than one topic on this show. the rev knows that. when we talk about who's fallen back, i understand you have one that might give us a little lighter moment here on a big week. >> actually just came off tour in africa and just getting off the plane, i got on my instagram and all i'm saying is this dance craze from drake released a new song called "in my feelings" and there's a kid in new york. i don't know if maybe you have some audio, can play it. this is the dance right here. how do you feel about it?

it's crazy looking at these things now because i feel like because of the internet and so much access to viral videos, like there's a time when things would take a week to go viral but now it's so incredible to see, like, millions of viewers and celebrities and people impactfully attacking this song in such a quick time. it's just -- >> the culture can spread so quickly. simon says, your big hit, has 10 million views. i imagine a lot of those have come since it came out. >> it goes away and comes back and it's a new bunch of kids rediscovering the record all over again so it's just amazing. >> these kids becoming deejays. you got viral videos. >> everyone can share whatever they find. >> a lot of kids didn't know what simon says was until he came out with it. like still standing because dwight, so you know. >> to bring it all together, i don't think people knew when you recorded that song you were talking about bob mueller when

you said control the game like tomb raider. so now we know that. if you don't know. i want to fit in a break. thanks for being a part of our panel. as always, check out politics nation sundays 8:00 a.m., we'll be right back. i love you, basement bathroom of solitude, but sometimes you stink. febreze air effects doesn't just mask, it cleans away odors. because the things you love can stink. looking for a hotel that fits... whoooo. ...your budget?

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in fact, drivers who switched from geico to esurance saved an average of $412. that's auto and home insurance for the modern world. esurance. an allstate company. click or call. it's been quite a news day and i want to share one progr s programming note. richard engel is broadcasting live from england. i'll be part of the special

coverage. make sure to check that out. that does it for us. please be sure to check out the beat weeknights at 6:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. watergate part ii. that is where america is tonight. we now have a detailed indictment of the people who broke into democratic party headquarters during the 2016 presidential campaign. the last time that happened was 1972 when burglars were caught breaking into the democratic national committees offices in the watergate office building in washington, d.c. the people who broke into the democratic party's offices in 1972 were acting to help the republican candidate for president and the people who broke into the democratic party's offices in 2016 were acting to help the republican candidate for president. no one caught the thieves in the act during the 2016 campaign because they broke into the of