boy, it was fun sitting in for nicole on this of all days. >> you're special. >> the highest level of special. >> my thanks to our panel. here's a new thing for me. that does it for this hour. i'm katy tur. nicole will be back monday at 4 a.m. eastern for deadline white house. mueller indicts. let's play hardball. good evening. i'm steve car knack can i in for chris matthews tonight. 12 kremlin officials with russia's military intelligence agency are facing charges in the united states. in an indictment filed today the 12 defendants are charged with

conspiracy to commit an offense against the united states. including charges of identity theft and money laundering. the indictment links the election hacking campaign to the russian government. it comes just days before president trump is set to meet face to face with vladimir putin. the indictment also reveals the highly sophisticated methods the kremlin used to communicate. here's rod rosenstein today. >> the defendants hacked into computer networks and installed malicious software that allowed them to spy on users and capture key strokes, take screen shots and exfiltrate or remove data from those computers. they created fictitious online personas. they used the personas to

release information. including thousands of stolen e-mails and other documents. in an effort to conceal their connections to russia, the defendants used a network of computers around the world and paid for it using crypto-currenci crypto-currencies. >> one detail in the indictment stands out in particular. it specifically mentions the date of july 27th, 2016. saying, quote, on or about july 27th, 2016 they attempted after hours to spear phish for the first time e-mail accounts at a do main hosted by a third party profinder and used by the personal office. timing may be significant. that was the same day that trump made this infamous statement soliciting clinton's personal e-mails from russia. >> i will tell you this. russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the

30,000 e-mails that are missing. >> the revelations suggest but does not confirm that russian intelligence could have made new attempts to steal clinton's e-mails at the direction of donald trump. no americans were named as co-conspirators in the indictment. guccifer 2.0 and d.c. leaks. there's no allegation the americans knew they were correspondenting with russian agents but it states they shared stolen documents with a candidate for the u.s. congress, a state lobbyist and a reporter. they also, quote, communicated with u.s. persons about the release of stolen documents including a person who was in regular contact with senior members of the presidential campaign of donald trump. messages cited in the indictment indicate that person is former trump adviser roger stone who has come under increasing scrutiny in the special counsel's probe.

according to a report from abc news today, at least seen people associated with long time trump friend roger stone have been contacted by special counsel robert mueller. though stone has denied colluding with russians. joining me now our panel. just in trying to sift through everything that is in this indictment, we singled it out there. this line here, and i want you to translate. that wording is a little confusing in this indictment. do main hosted by a third party provider. used by clinton's personal office. the way this is being interpreted by the folks i'm reading is saying that's the day trump said hey, russia, i hope you go find those 30,000 e-mails from hillary clinton. remember, and that that language i read is a reference to russia trying to do just that. is that what it's saying there?

>> that's what it sure looks like, steve. and i don't think it's an accident that this date was mentioned in this indictment. there are a lot of dates that things happen where the russian hackers were active, and they didn't list very many of them. this is one particular date they listed, and i think mueller did it for a reason. because he knows that we would make this connection. he's not alleging that these russian actors did this because donald trump asked them to. a reasonable person can make that inference. if you remember, katy tur gave donald trump a chance after he said that to sort of take it back or to at least say he's kidding, he's engaging in hyperbole. no, he said absolutely. i would like the russians if they can get the e-mails, that would be great or the chinese, he said, and, in fact, the idea that they morphed from trying to hack the dnc to trying to hack hillary clinton and her people and they continued to do that i think looms very significant in this investigation.

>> okay. now, no americans indicted here. saying there's no allegation in this indictment. that the americans knew that mentioned here knew they were talking to russian agents. the speculation now is centering around roger stone. take us through what is in here about roger stone and do we have any sense what the next steps are there if there are any? >> right. we've known for some time the special counsel is calling roger stone's friends to the grand jury and asking questions about his knowledge. and the text -- the messages that were enumerated in the indictment today, the indictment does not mention roger stone, but he had previously published this exchange that he had with guccifer 2. at the time he published it he said he's never had contact with a russian official. at the time he was contending that was not a russian operative. this indictment makes it clear that is a fake per sew that

created by russian intelligence to leak the stolen e-mails. now we have roger stone in contact with this persona. there's nothing particularly incriminating that stone did or said laid out in the indictment, but it refutes his denial that he engaged in the russians. we know a couple of months ago another story broke and he said he remembered he had contact with a russian down in florida who was offering him incriminating information about hillary clinton. so if there is a nexus, if there were members of the trump campaign or trump advisers who were participating with the russians and coordinating, roger stone seems like a likely person that investigators could be focusing on. no evidence yet. that's where everybody is looking right now. >> the immediate next thing on the world stage, the next issue on the world stage coming out of is that president trump is set to meet with vladimir putin. there's been some calls from democrats and i think john mccain to not go forward with

the meet. white house saying he will. congressman castro with the white house saying this meeting is going forward with this indictment now detailing what robert mueller and his team believe is this is what russia was doing in the united states in this presidential election in 2016. what message do you want president trump to bring to vladimir putin? what message do you expect him to bring to vladimir putin? >> well, given the news today in the indictments, president trump should not go bow at the foot of vladimir putin. and for him to do so is a disgrace to the american people. most especially because on the very day when he publicly called for russia to hack into hillary clinton's e-mails, they actually listened to him, and they did that. so for him to go there knowing what all of us know now would be a disgrace. >> carolyn, from a lawyer's perspective here, ken is saying he thinks that line, we're talking about the day that trump says go get those hillary e-mails russia if you're

listening. this line in the indictment saying it looks like something like that happened that night for the first time. do you believe that's something mueller put in there intentionally and from a prosecutor standpoint, what does he want us saying if he's putting it out there for us to see and notice? >> i do think he put that in there intentionally. there's an old saying and people have been saying it all day today, that prosecutors do not believe in coincidences. wouldn't it be quite a big coincidence that unbeknownst to president trump or then candidate trump, guccifer 2 .0 and the russian operatives starting the phishing the same day he told them to do so in i think there's more of the story. in the bigger picture this is part two of a third party series. the big part is what if anything did americans know. rod rosenstein was clear not to go that clear in a statement today. nobody is alleging any americans knew, but i think that's logically speaking the next shoe

to drop. zbl zbl zblen. >> and the white house saying the meeting with vladimir putin is still on. you could make the argument that today's indictment would give the president the evidence he needs to go into that meeting and hold vladimir putin to account for russian interference in the campaign. well, in advance of that meeting trump suggested he does not plan to confront putin very strongly. this is what he had to say earlier today. >> i know you'll ask will we be talking about meddling? and i will absolutely bring that up. i don't think you'll have any gee, i did it, i did it, you got me. there won't be a perry mason here, i don't think. you never know what happens, but i will absolutely firmly ask the question. >> putin has denied there's any proof that russia was responsible for the interference campaign. this is what he told megyn kelly last year. >> president putin you have repeatedly and passionately denied that russia was behind

the interference with our american presidential election. >> translator: i haven't seen even once any direct proof of russian interference in the presidential election in the united states. >> and now washington post columnist david ignatius is issuing a warning ahead of the meeting. trump's concession and his inability to hold putin responsibility makes him write trump should consider the possibility that held sen can i. improving relations with russia is a worthy goal so long as it doesn't undermine security or reward bad behavior. >> i read you have a new piece up on national review saying the witches are real. the president has been calling this mueller investigation a witch hunt. you're certainly taking it seriously. we talk so much about the president's been making the case that this is my enemies, the democrats. these are the clinton die hards who don't want to respect what

happened in 20 16. do you see anything in the news, in the indictment, in the coverage of it that's going to change how this is sort of percolating on the right? >> well, certainly not in the hard core trump base. immediately the response was yet again we see no collusion. even though there were the very interesting paragraphs in the indictment indicating that there was direct communication with unnamed individuals with guccifer 2.0. until you see some evidence that says that is screaming collusion, you're going to have a hard core base that's going to be unfazed by any of this. you have a lot of thoughtful conservatives that say it is becoming clearer and clearer that the intelligence agency's assessment that the putin regime tried to intervene what was first a disruption operation became an operation on attempting to hurt hillary

clinton and help donald trump. it is clear that mueller needs to be free to do his work and let the chips fall where they may, and i think one thing that's key because he focussed on the actual russian interference in our election here, he illustrated that he's doing his work competently and professionally and according to core terms of his appointment. that's important. >> and congressman, i'm curious. have you had a chance to talk to any of your republican colleagues? have you felt the temperature change there at all in response to this? >> i haven't, steve. we ended voting somewhere around 11:00 this morning, and most of us had been on planes. i just got back home to texas about an hour ago. but in addition to the indictments and the fact that the president should cancel this summit, it also speaks to the need for two important things. first, greater election security. there isn't a single federal law, and i don't think there's a state law, at least nobody has been able to point to one, that

says -- sets any bar or minimum bar for cyber security protection for our voting. and russia hacked voter registration systems. there's got to be laws put into place and greater cooperation among all levels of government. the second part is we need the equivalent of a cyber nato where nations come together and are able to act defensively when one of them is attacked. nato accomplishes that when a country is physically intruded upon but what's missing is the cyber component. >> carolyn, we have a lawyer here. a question i'm dying to ask. i might as well ask you with you sitting here. we've been talking about the idea that trump says russia, get the e-mails and we have the indictment. looks like russia turned around and tried to do that. people are using the term collusion in public. we've been looking for the idea of was there a back channel?

was there a behind the scenes meeting? what if this was a situation where the president said that, russia heard that, or the candidate then said that, russia tried to do that. certainly that looks terrible. but is there a crime in that if that's what happened? >> there is not enough right there if those are the only facts. there's such a thing in the law known as constructive knowledge. if trump knew something like if for example he knew that day they were going to listen to him and he knew that he would be sending them a message, then yes, that could go to a constructive knowledge of a knowingness that this was going to happen. however, just as the facts as you lay them out there, unfortunately that's not enough to get to a crime. >> all right. carolyn, ken, and congressman, david french, thank you all for being with us. a very busy day and night certainly. coming up, president trump's wrecking ball diplomacy. they're calling it that. it continues to tear through europe. massive crowds gathering for

protests in london. this one day after leaving nato allies uneasy with trump's go it alone threat. and days before the president holds that big one on one meeting wi meeting with vladimir putin. the white house says it's still on. with the mueller investigation ratcheting up in a big way, what do voters think of it and of the president's dismissal of it? we have fascinating numbers to look through at the big board and much more on the indictment of 12 russian intention officers on the eve of the trump/putin meeting. a meeting democrats calling for the president to cancelling. the round table weighs in and rosenstein's stark warning to congress that cases should not get tried on television or in congressional hearings. and finally the round table tells us three things we might not know. this is hardball, where the action is. ♪ [ screams ] ♪ [ laughs ]

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>> i would give our relationship with the uk and now especially after this two days with your prime minister. i would say the highest level of special. am i allowed to go higher than that? i'm not sure. but it's the highest level of special. they're very special people. it's a very special country. >> welcome back to hardball. that was president trump trying to mend fences after taking his wrecking ball diplomacy between the u.s. and the united kingdom. trump tried to explain away his comments to the british tabloid,

the sun, trashing tree heresa m handling of brexit. >> i would have done it much differently. i actually told theresa may how to do it, but she didn't listen to me. >> what did she say? >> she didn't listen. no, i told her how to do it. that would be up to her to say, but i told her how to do it. she wanted to go a different rout. >> so you would be prepared to walk away if they didn't give you the right terms? >> oh, absolutely. i think what's going on is very unfortunate. >> at their joint press conference this morning president trump tried to walk back these comments. >> i didn't criticize the prime minister. i have a lot of respect for the prime minister, and unfortunately there was a story that was done which was generally fine, but it didn't put in what i said about the prime minister. once the brexit process is concluded and perhaps the uk has left the eu, i don't know what they're going to do, but

whatever you do is okay with me. that's your decision. >> the embarrassing diplomatic episode comes as thousands of demonstrators protest trump's visit. of course, days ahead of trump's face to face sit-down with vladimir putin on monday. for more joined by beth and bobby gauche. bobby, the other context for trump and may is her government in england, these things can fall fast over there. it came into this week pretty unstable. so he goes over there and hits her in that interview where she's most vulnerable in her own party on brexit. then he's standing there and acts like nothing happened. where does she emerge politically this weekend and her government. and the u.s./britain relationship. >> ironically for completely unexpected reasons she might come off looking slightly better because she held her nerve. she remained graceful while he

was a screw mumbling usual self. her government is very vulnerable. what we didn't show is he repeatedly praised her biggest rival within the party, boris johnson. >> who had just quit. >> quit the party leaving her in a crisis. you me, he basically not only put pet row over the situation but a match. this is an awkward moment for theresa may. the brits respond well to grace under fire. and i think she gave a good account of herself given how awkward that situation is. that might win her a few brownie points just like that. >> and how does something like that, and i wonder beth play over here. on the one hand we don't see presidents go to britain and behave this way. trump said we're getting ripped off by the world.

we need to rethink. the posture and the attitude is something he talked about running for president. >> 100%. and we've seen this many times. he sort of lives in his own reality bubble. he seemed to think that theresa may wouldn't have listened to the aud yes before he had the dinner with her and appeared with her at the press conference. he could say what i said now, i didn't say what i meant to say. what i said was this, and yes, we're used to this with donald trump. up is down, and he creates his own reality. he's persuasive when he does so. he can perhaps convince a few people what he claimed to have said doesn't matter. to the point you make about him doing things that the presidents typically don't do. he went over and criticized their prime minister in her country. and then he criticized the press. he blamed the press for this mishap of communication. there wasn't any. the american press on foreign soil. again, something presidents typically don't do.

because we're numb to everything he does, we sort of said well, here he goes again. >> it was a fascinating contrast. you're reading it and he was very confidently dissing her. he gets face to face and it's a different attitude. >> trump and putin, the sit-down is t white house is saying it's on. democrats are saying it shouldn't be. are the indictments today going to impact what donald trump does in that meeting? >> it ought to. by every rational logical reckoning, it ought to. it gives him something to take to putin and say enough of these blanket denials we have proof now. your people were involved. what are you going to do about it? but this is donald trump and he's repeatedly shown as you said, he's capable of living in a bubble, a fact-free bubble. and so i suspect if he says anything at all, the fact that

they're not going to be any aides in the room means we won't hear much about it. it doesn't look like he's going to strike a combative pose with vladimir putin. so if i were putin, i wouldn't be particularly worried with any of it. >> and trump on this subject, he defended his performance arguing his behavior does not undermine the alliance. his behavior in britain does not undermine the alliance ahead of the meeting with vladimir putin. >> let me explain something. we have left nato with more money, with more unity, with more spirit than nato probably has ever had. when you look at what we've done in terms of russia, i guarantee whoever it is in russia, they're saying oh, gee, do we wish that trump was not the victor in that election. we have been far tougher on russia than anybody, anybody. >> well, beth, bobby said it a second ago. right now it sound like the

president is one on one trump. a virginia senator saying the president of the united states should not be one on one with vladimir putin. there needs to be another american in that room. but it looks like the plan is one on one. what can he come out of that room and say in light of what we have tonight? >> that was controversial before the indictments that he would go just this v this meeting the two of them with no american to give witness to what was said. apparently we are told by the white house press office that everything is as planned. there's not going to be any changes. what i don't quite understand is with respect to sort of how he loves to appear with everyone including with our allies and nato, g7, very tough. i'm the tough guy and the alpha male. i'm going to exploit weakness, call it as i see it. he doesn't want to appear tough at all in russia. this would be a great opportunity for him, for a normal president to go over there and say as part of my image of projecting strength, you're never doing this again to

us, vladimir. but he just won't. he won't. he's always so in twith whether they like each other. it's a kind of place of fear. as opposed to the projection of strength which is important to him in any other way. >> in terms of europe, obviously relations there have been tested in other times since donald trump has become president. did anything this week surprise our allies in terms of how this went down? >> no. i don't think they're surprised. i think this was a moment of reckoning for them and a moment for them to recognize there's been a tendency outside the u.s. to think about trump as it's play acting. surely when it comes to the crunch and the rubber meeting the road, surely this is all for the cameras.

the reality is different behind the scenes he'll be more sensible. this was a reality for them to see what you see is what you get. there is no second trump. this is exactly who he is, and he is 100% authentic. however, you feel about it. so this was a moment, i think, for european leaders, for nato allies to recognize the guy is who he says he is, and even behind closed doors, that's how he's going to behave. >> thank you for joining us. up next with the mueller investigation ratcheting up in a big, new way, who do voters think of the president's dismissal of it? i'm going to head to the big board next. this is hardball, where the action is. not us. because southwest has $69 one-way sale fares for travel throughout september and october. so you can fill the rest of your year with amazing trips. from football games to reunions, or just a break from the office. these $69 one-way sale fares are ready to make your september and october a whole lot better.

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welcome back to hardball. again, the mueller investigation ratcheting up today in a big way. the 12 indictments of russian intelligence officials and in that indictment they're really the most thorough documentation from the mueller side so far in terms of what exactly russia was up to. oh, it came up early. what exactly russia is up to. we wanted to show you numbers at the big board. with the investigation and all the coverage of it ratcheting up right now, the possibility certainly is that there is more to come. we wanted to see where public opinion is on this and where it might be going. there's been broad support overall for the idea of having an investigation, but we've been seeing some polarization start to set in too.

for instance, here you go. this basic question here. this was the most recent nbc wall street journal poll asking did trump from what you've seen, you think it's like lie truly t colluded or not with russia 37-34. 28 say they don't know. overwhelmingly from democrats 68 to 5. they think there's collusion. republicans, 7 to 69 they say there wasn't. we start to see polarization. there's also this. how about this question. do you have confidence that the mueller investigation is fair and impartial. the president's been out there saying this is a witch hunt. the president has been out there calling for this thing to be wrapped up. overall there is a majority here that say they are confident this is a fair and impartial investigation. that number underneath it is sitting there at 4-10.

a key question as this thing plays out, is that going to tighten? look, you can see the polarization among democrats, overwhelming confidence it's a fair and impartial investigation. 77-18. flip side, more than two to one. among independents it's confidence there at a bare majority there, 50%. keep that one in mind. and then how about this? how does russia investigation the coverage, how it's played into public opinion? we took a poll and asked that question. we always ask what's trump's approval meeting in the number came in at 44%. but how about this? how about when you ask the question do you follow the russia investigation closely? among those folks trump's approval rating is at 40 %. i don't follow the russia investigation that closely. among those folks it's 52 %

approval rating. all sorts of possibilities about what's driving that but there's a disconnect. the folks following it closely, their opinion lower than the folks who aren't following this closely. again, the question here as we say, though, let's see as it plays out. if it ratchets out more, does the polarization start to dissipate? coming up after today's indictment of the 12 russian officials, democrats are calling on the president to cancel his sit-down with vladimir putin. senator john mccain republican warning the meeting could only happen and should only happen with the world is ready to hold putin accountable for the meddling. we'll get to that straight ahead. ly helps me...relax. please don't, i'm saving those for later. at least you don't have to worry about renters insurance. just go to geico.com. geico helps with renters insurance? good to know.

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gee, i did it, you got me. there won't be a perry mason here, i don't think, you never know, but i will firmly ask the question. >> welcome back to hardball. president trump says he plans on bringing up election meddling during his meeting on monday with vladimir putin. but in light of today's indictments, democrats are calling for trump to cancel that meeting if he's not going to confront putin. let's watch. >> if he and his team are not willing to make the subject of this indictment of russian interference a top priority in the helsinki meeting, the meeting should be cancelled. >> i wouldn't trust what he says there. >> we should certainly cancel any meeting without other americans present. >> if president trump is unwilling to confront vladimir putin about this strong piece of evidence, he should cancel the meeting. he should tell putin it's unacceptable to do this. there's going to be more penalties if he continues too d

it, and make sure president trump can say he made the contribution to putin. if he doesn't do that, it makes us and our president look weak. >> in a statement today senator john mccain said that if president trump is not prepared to hold putin accountable, the summit should not move forward. the white house said late today the meeting is still on. let's bring in the round table phillip bump, isha moody-mills. he says he's going to bring it up. he immediately says don't expect anything out of it. and i think among other things that's been the knock on the president in term of how he's addressed it in public. do you think this will force him to change that? >> no. there's nothing over the course of the past 18 months which suggests that in any way donald trump would feel any pressure to put pressure on vladimir putin on this issue. we know the part of his hesitance is he thinks the idea that russia meddled on his

behalf somehow undercuts his victory. he doesn't want to reinforce it in that regard. i feel like at this point there's a built in intransige e intransigence. he hears everyone say you should do this thing. that makes him want to do it less. i think honestly, yes, i understand the point being made, but it's a little bit like going to exxon mobil with a new bit of climate data and saying now you have to stop selling oil. they're not going to do that because there's new data that reinforces we what already know. exactly the same. >> is there anything the president could say coming out of the meeting or in it that would get democrats to say okay, i mean, realistically, saying he handled that all right? >> aside from being a partisan issue, let's make it american. the guy ran on poking out his chest and talking about how he was going to defend americans and he was our guy and the only person who could talk tough to the world on our behalf. and here he is acting like a

sheep when the one person in the world has done what he could to try to alter our democracy. literally 12 people were indicted because it has been proven that the russians have been involved in something nefarious in the united states and it's a big deal. and now where is he with the tough talk? as an american if he wants me to feel like he's got it, clearly he doesn't have it. i'm curious as to what happened to all the bra video doe. >> the question and not the first time we've asked it is republican leaders in congress. we have john mccain saying if he's not willing to go in and confront putin, should be no meeting. ben sass said this is serious. is there going to be any change? if donald trump has this meeting and doesn't confront putin in a different way than we've seen, will there be any change in how republican leaders react? >> no. if the base gets angry, then republican leaders will.

>> what will change that? >> they're buying whatever comes out of the president's mouth, even my words were taken today and used against me in the sun against theresa may. it's just absolutely frustrating. let's be honest. on january 20th, 2017, he put his hand on the bible and swore an oath to protect and defend the constitution against enemies foreign and domestic. he's going to have a love fest with vladimir putin and say i have to ask you about this. it's like an abuse of relationship and somebody is attacking you constantly and abusing you and you say we want to improve the relationship. the first thing is stop the abuse. russia's going to do it in 2018 and 2020. maybe it won't benefit republicans this time, but we need to have a president who stands up and does it. and the president is having a dereliction of duty moment and it's frustrating. >> and during the 2016 campaign then candidate trump made this plea to russia from his golf club in florida.

>> i will tell you this. russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. i think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press. >> as we were talking about earlier, according to today's indictment, this was the same day. you heard july 20th, 2016 when russian intelligence officers aat the present timed to spear phish for the first time e-mails used by hillary clinton's personal office. phillip, the terms out there collusion in plain sight. collusion in public view. i'm trying to figure out with so much attention on what was happening behind the scenes if this ends up being he said this, russia heard it, russia went and looked for it. if those dots are connected here, what does that mean for this investigation? >> i mean, honestly, i'm going to take a contrary position to sort of the conventional wisdom.

i think what you saw, the link between what donald trump said and what's in the indictment, undercuts the idea that the trump campaign had a secret back channel with russia. >> why say it in public? >> right. >> but not only that, there's also evidence in this indictment that shows how it is that this facade of the russian intelligence services made contact with wikileaks to share information. that too, it seems according to robert mueller's team was done through a direct message over twitter. if that's the case, maybe there wasn't a conduit in the campaign. there's a lot of questions about donald trump and his campaign and russia. i think the evidence that came out today doesn't reinforce very strongly the idea that the two are working behind the scenes. >> round table is staying with us. after yesterday's hearing on capitol hill for peter strzok

rod rosenstein had what seemed like a very pointed message for congress. and whiskers on kittens ♪ ♪ bright copper kettles and warm woolen mittens ♪ ♪ brown paper packages tied up with strings ♪ ♪ these are a few of my favorite things ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ these are a few of my favorite things ♪ with i get rewarded explowherever i go. going out for a bite. rewarded! going new places. rewarded! learn more at theexplorercard.com at outback, there's one way to cook a steak. perfectly. and three ways for perfect shrimp. introducing steak & shrimp, starting at $15.99. whether you choose bbq, garlic butter or sweet & tangy shrimp, it'll be perfect. and for a perfect outback meal at home, order now.

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counsel robert mueller's investigation. fbi agent peter strzok, who was criticized for personal messages he sent during the campaign that disparaged then-candidate trump came under intense fire by republicans on the house judiciary and oversight committees. departmenty attorney general rod rosenstein today seemed to have a very pointed message for congress. >> we do not try cases on television or in congressional hearings. we follow the rule of law, which means that we follow procedures. and we reserve judgment. we complete our investigations and we evaluate all of the relevant evidence before we reach any conclusion. >> how did you read what rod rosenstein was saying there? was he going to say that no matter what or was that a reflection on what happened yesterday? >> i think he was going to say it no matter what. i think every time he has a chance to speak, he could double down on the fact that, we're trying to get justice here. i know you want to have a partisan war.

i think the republicans made themselves look absolutely ridiculous at that hearing. i mean, the fact they were having a yelling match, the fact they were attacking this guy, and frankly, the fact that even though, you know, that no one is coming up with any real solutions on what to do to actually protect and safeguard america from these threats that are being investigated, to me, is just, like -- i can't even believe that's happening right now. >> and evan, it speaks, though, i think to something you were saying a minute ago about what you saw on that committee, among other things yesterday, i think you saw a demonstration of a lot of energy on the republican base being channeled through jim jordan, some of the more aggressive mebls of that committee. that does seem to be where the guts of the republican base is right now. >> yeah, there's this belief that it's a witch hunt, but you had louie gohmert going off and attacking peter strzok -- peter strzok is no ajen. and he made that into a side show that just didn't work. i think that democrats were

puffing their chests, as well, trying to score political points with their base. i thought that steve cohen was out of line when he tried to make a martyr of peter strzok, saying, you deserve the purple heart for this. at the same time, we really deserve to have members of congress from both sides of the aisle asking the real questions. okay, why did you send these? yes, it was inappropriate to do that. and playing sort of investigators and prosecutors, not politicians looking to send out a fund-raising e-mail and prove to their base they're tough. >> that's an interesting point, too. seems like there maybe should be a line that you can draw between say egg, okay, this idea that the bias that's shown in these texts turned up in the investigation, turned up in the actions of the fbi, where is the evidence for that, and we haven't seen any evidence for that. but then to turn around and say that strzok should get a purple heart -- you could make an argument in terms of the mueller investigation, it's probably for the best that strzok is not continuing as apart of that, just given the questions that could be raised. >> sure. absolutely. the reason we know about peter strzok is because robert mueller

fired him from his team in july of last year because he found out about the texts. it is -- there is certainly a case to be made that peter strzok is an example of how mueller is going out of his way to ensure his review is objective. again, the point here is, republicans want to reinforce president trump's key rhetorical point is that the mueller probe is biased against trump. that's what this is all about. what they were trying to do there is make peter strzok, if nothing else, unsympathetic who people will dislike and dislike the mueller probe. but i think something else happened yesterday that hasn't gotten as much attention, which is a fox news poll came out, and it asked people how they felt about the mueller investigation. if you could say to mueller, either, take your time and do the job that needs to be done or wrap it up already, which would you say, and 54% of americans said, take your time and do the thing right, which is a majority and a higher percentage that the percentage who said they approved of the probe itself. i think that's important to remember. >> we're missing something ironic. the entire hearing was about bias could impact an

investigation and we saw a lot of bias impacting a congressional investigation. >> roundtable staying with us. up next, these three will tell me something i don't know. that's a very easy job. you're watching "hardball." (vo) what if this didn't have to happen? i didn't see it. (vo) what if we could go back? what if our car... could stop itself? in iihs front-end crash prevention testing,

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and we're back with the "hardball" roundtable. philip, tell me something i don't know. >> here are the fruits of robert mueller's rich hunt so far. 23 counts that were dropped as part of a plea deal. 32 people and three businesses who have been named.

six guilty planes from five defendants. 25 russian nationals have been charged with crimes, including 13 individuals linked to russian intelligence. >> and i definitely could not have given you those numbers, so, i did not know that. aisha? >> the emmys just broke another glass ceiling, broke records for the number of diverse nominees again this year. 36 people of color have been nominated for an emmy. last year it was 27. >> and evan? >> well, the white house and the epa are trying to is up press a department of defense report that says that 126 military bases across the country, the water there, that the troops and their families are drinking, are contaminated almost to the points of flint. >> wow, okay. that is a a sobering note to end it on and we've got the -- let me -- we have a -- 30 seconds here, let me just asking one exit question on this, surprise question, does anybody think there's any chance that trump backs out of the putin meeting? >> no. >> no. >> absolutely not. going to be a love fest.

>> okay. that is still scheduled. the white house says it's still on. democrats will probably escalate this calls this weekend. we'll see if there's any republicans who join them, of course, john mccain earlier coming out with a statement saying the president should call it off if he's not ready to confront vladimir putin we'll see. if there are any surprise additions of thele toings calling for that. i'm going to say thank you to the roundtable. that is "hardball" for now. chris matthews will be back monday. bob mueller indicting russians for hacking for the first time, the biggest development in this probe since paul manafort's indictment. this is friday, july 13th, and the special counsel troeb that 2kr probe that donald trump has spent his entire presidency degrading. well, i can report for you tonight that today that probe has produced the most far-reaching and detailed indictment of russian ele