to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget... that your business is our business the united states postal service. priority: you ♪ ♪ ♪ welcome to "kasie d.c." i'm kasie hunt. we are live every sunday from washington from 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. eastern. tonight, trump/putin, the sequel, the leadrs meet in helsinki. things get tricky ahead of the summit. later republican congressman ryan costello joins me live. he says his colleagues' conclusions on the russia investigation should be taken with a grain of salt. but just hours from now, president trump and president putin are set to meet.

things were always going to be a little awkward to begin with. and then came the indictments of a dozen russians laid out in forensic detail. it leaves a lot of questions, like whether holding those accountable will come up in their conversation. >> the russians who were indicted, would you ask putin to send them here? >> well, i might. i hadn't thought of that, but certainly i'll be asking about it. again, this was during the obama administration. >> presented with all of this new information, there is also the question of how hard the president will press vladimir putin on his government's role. >> i know you'll ask will we be talking about meddling, and i will absolutely bring that up. i don't think you'll have any, gee, i did it, i did it, you got me. there won't be a perry mason here, i don't think, but you never know what happens, right? >> jonathan swan of axios citing sources close to trump if and

when trump confronts putin tomorrow, it won't be with genuine seriousness or enthusiasm. the president no longer doubts the intelligence assessment. quote, he just can't get past a senior administration official told us, his voice trailing off, quote, that it's about his election. all of this while the president casually recasts who is a friend and who is a foe. >> who is your biggest competitor, your biggest foe globally right now? >> well, i think we have a lot of foes. i think the european union is a foe. what they do to us in trade. now, you wouldn't think of the european union, but they're a foe. russia's a foe in certain respects. china is a foe economically certainly they're a foe. but that doesn't mean they're bad. it doesn't mean anything. it means that they're competitors. they want to do well and we want to do well. >> i want to welcome in my panel. former chief of staff at cia and department of defense and msnbc national security analyst jeremy

bash. politics reporter for the daily beast and msnbc contributor betsy woodruff. the man who puts memo, nbc news national reporter mike. joining us from london, london school of economics brian class. and from helsinki finland, chief correspondent affairs, host andrea mitchell reports nbc, andrea mitchell. it's such an honor to have you here. thank you for staying up with us. >> thank you. absolutely. >> i have watched so many of these meetings, dozens of types of meetings with foreign leaders over the years. this seems like everything this president does, stunning in a way that is extraordinarily difficult to kind of understand and explain. what's your latest reporting going into this summit? and can you put it in some historical context? what do you think is important here and different than what you've seen before? >> sure. i think this is unique because we've never had a summit with a

kgb spy master, someone who has, you know, completely studied and examined donald trump, and a president who spent the weekend golfing and has not been preparing. there were no principal meetings, no planning for the summit, no deeply organized strategy sessions, what is the agenda, what are the goals, what do they want to get out of it. so, we could be surprised, they could come out and say we've made progress on nuclear weapons, that we're going to revive, expand, extend, start nuclear weapons agreement which expires after 2022. but will donald trump confront putin on the fact he's already busted out of one medium-range, the inf treaty by deploying a banned missile? unlikely. he doesn't know those kind of details. he hasn't been with his advisors. we've seen him all over the lot as he crisscrosses europe the last week. and it's really startling that he's going to be meeting one on one.

we're not going to have a record of this one on one meeting. and that is alarming to a lot of former advisors in both political parties who have worked so closely to plan a summit like this. this is even less planned and more impromptu than singapore was, and that's saying a lot. >> andrea, i mean, this is somebody -- vladimir putin has a history of being, as you point out, the former kgb official who does things to either flatter and try to embrace his host in a way that puts them off guard as he did with george w. bush, or tries to unsettle them as he did with angela merkel at times. do we have any indication that that's kind of where vladimir putin might be going with this? and the last time that they did talk, there seems to be some agreement on how to handle issues in syria that then quite frankly putin walked away from. it seems like the policy stakes could be very high. >> well, there are a lot of issues there, especially with syria, because the administration is planning really ramping up its very

aggressive posture on both sanctions and other activities against iran. they are keen to some big decisions on iran coming and they have already, as we reported over the weekend, told the top three european allies who were very concerned about the iran nuclear deal, about our withdrawal from the nuclear deal, there would be no waivers, no exceptions -- their companies are going to have to get out of tehran or risk not doing business with the united states, which is not a choice for them. they have to be able to trade-in dollars, deal with american banks. so, they have to get out of iran. this is going to squeeze iran. there are other steps that are being taken on the energy front to compensate for what may be -- what will be a drop in iranian oil exports if these other major european companies, france, britain and germany have to pull out. so there's a lot there. and this conversation about syria where vladimir putin has been working with iran gets

really complicated on the ground. is this a way of the u.s. backing out of syria, abandoning rebels, saying we're doing it because of iran, and somehow working with putin but not to undercut assad, to continue propping up his client, bashar al-assad? so, there's that. but primarily on the mueller front, every signal from everything the president has said in the last days, months, particularly since the indictment, is to blame the victim, blame the democrats for not defending themselves better, blame obama for saying it happened on his watch out of context and give putin and the kremlin a free ride. >> jeremy bash, to andrea's point on that, how do you think these two things interact, what you learned in the mueller investigation? obviously the president knew that this was going to happen going into it. he's going forward anyway. >> first on the summit, we're going to see unfold here in the next ten hours, this is the most

significant shift in the american foreign policy in the post world war ii era. i don't think we should under play that. first on the economic front, kasie, we are reordering our trade relationships around the world, preferring more unilateral, in some cases bilateral cases. ending the regime. more politically, undermining the nato alliance, undermining our historical alliances including with the u.k. and really embracing russia. this is a fundamental shift. so then west virginia e of course, the indictments that show definitively russian government officials comprehensively not just meddled in the election, but actually launched a very sophisticated cyberattack against the united states. and yes, it did occur during the obama administration. the trump campaign happened during the obama administration. but it is very clear, and i think you see this from the president's own words leading up to the summit, he doesn't take this seriously. he doesn't accept the intelligence and he will not in any way confront putin about t. >> when you learned this -- forgive me for putting you on

the spot. should the obama administration done more? they want it had to go public. they stepped back because mitch mcconnell wouldn't go along. >> the president thought hillary is going to win, this isn't going to matter. let's not get involved lest she win and we be accused in the election. the united states should have done a lot more. >> there is tonight this from "the new york times" saying, quote, the same russian military intelligence service now accused of disrupting the 2016 presidential election in america may also be responsible for the nerve agent attack in britain against a former russian spy -- an audacious poisoning that led to a geopolitical confrontation this spring between moscow and the west. quote, british investigators believe the march 4 attack on the former spy, sergey skripalal and his daughter yulia was most probably carried out by current or former agents of the service known as the g.r.u. who were sent to his home in southern england, according to one

british official, one a american official and one former american official familiar with the inquiry, all speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence. nbc news has not verified the times reporting as this is all coming to us. betsy woodruff, pretty remarkable considering the president is leaving the u.k., having been there. this is a very physical manifestation of a, frankly, sweeping intelligence power that is systematically trying to undermine democracies across the globe. >> that's right. and the important context for this is none of this stuff happens without vladimir putin knowing about it. putin is critically close with the intelligence services, he's deeply involved with all these matters. it is unthinkable there would have been an operation like the one alleged to have happened against the skripals without putin knowing about it. unlikely the 2016 election meddling happened without putin knowing about it. what has the trump

administration tried to put putin on the spot? i don't think anyone is waiting with baited breath to see that happen. it puts it more to the forefront and more urjts. >> what is the view from london look like? this is a story you guys have been covering pretty closely. is there surprise? and what is kind of the orientation and the feeling -- are you exhausted having experienced a little of what we here in the u.s. experience every day having the president visit the u.k.? >> well, it was a remarksable visit. donald trump is politically toxic in the u.k. he has an 11% approval rating. that was the bombshell sun interview where he effectively tried to push theresa may's government off the cliff where she is already close to the edge. i think there was astonishment, bewhich wi bewhich wi b bewilderment. trump trashed nato, trashed the e.u. and trashed britain. those are all three things

vladimir putin very much wants to happen. for the last two decades he's been looking to drive a wedge into the core of the west, and donald trump has done this for him. something the soviet union couldn't accomplish, something putin couldn't accomplish. now trump is accomplishing it for him heading into helsinki. the british government is looking at this with trepidation and waiting to see what will come out of it and not too optimistic. >> on the eve of the president's meeting with vladimir putin, members of the trump administration and the president himself have sought to downplay expectations. >> it is a summit, i've heard it called a summit. it is a meeting. >> the russians have agreed it would be unstructured. we are not looking for concrete deliverables here. >> no state dinner, no joint statement. no deliverables that are going to be prepackaged. you don't know what's going to come out of this meeting. >> i don't expect anything. i'm going in with very low expectations. i think that getting along with russia is a good thing. but it's possible we won't.

>> you heard ambassador jon huntsman therein sifting tomorrow's meeting is not a, quote, summit but that didn't stop the president from sending out the tweets hours later no matter how well he does at the summit, the media won't give him any credit. andrea mitchell, what are your expectations inside this frame for this meeting? >> well, i think that they will come out and try to make some announcements perhaps on arms control. but we are all inevitably going to be focused on the indictments, on how he addresses it. it's a joint news conference. there will be two questions on either side. he can try to call on friendlier reporters. i'm really struck by the fact that going into this he again used the phrase on twitter, the press are enemies of the people. that is a stalinist phrase. and it goes against everything that the state department under both republicans and democrats have done for decades to project america's belief in a free press, america's belief in the

first amendment as american secretaries of state and presidents go to moscow or beijing or now erdogan's turkey. to any of these totalitarian regimes, they go in, hold press conferences, the new secretary of the state pompeo did, rex tillerson did not as a regular matter. emphasizing the importance of a free press. for him to use that phrase right out of josef stalin's book on the eve of a summit with vladimir putin is so deeply offensive to american values. it's quite remarkable. >> and, mike, to andrea's point, this is going to be something of of a stunning display. usually there has been this rule that you don't criticize the american president when he goes abroad, but also american presidents have a history of defending their own free press. you i know have covered carefully the russia investigation and have read through these indictments. what did you see in there that you think we should be paying attention to tomorrow? >> kasie, i'm going to send you

back to your 2012 romney rambler days because there was a moment that republicans are fond of bringing up in 2012 when of course obama on the hot mic was heard talking with president medvedev at the time, i'll have more flexibility after the election. romney pounced on that. this isness a moment for the american president to be holding his punches with the russian president. i think what we're seeing is exactly that. it's remarkable he's dispassionately speaking about the summit. there is not much he's expecting down playing his expectations. you know who is ready? he may have been basquing in the spotlight. that's vladimir putin. and this indictment from the mueller team on friday really carefully lays out their capabilities. and there is the need for the american president to respond to that forcefully to say this is unacceptable. what we heard from the president today doesn't sound like he's ready to deliver that message. >> it does seem like a remarkable signal. the detail, jeremy bash, that was in the indictment, it seems to -- almost as though they

intended to tell vladimir putin, hey, look, this is how much we know about what you've been doing. >> it showed the depth of intelligence collection about russian cyberattacks against the united states. but, look, the administration here is describing that as the seinfeld summit, the summit about nothing. and i think the reason -- >> i like that. >> the reason it is happening is because they have no idea. jon huntsman, the ambassador, john bolton the advisor, have no idea why we are having this summit. trump hasn't told them. it's a secret one on one meeting. this is not a summit with deliverables. there may be vague statements, i take andrea's points. it will be totally a more fuss, unenforceable. all we no is trump is going to walk out, declare victory, some important objective has been achieved, but we will never know. in fact, the administration itself has no idea what it wants to get out of this. >> betsy woodruff, is that essentially all this is, another media show? we've seen the reports in the wake of singapore, for example, that president trump said, oh, hey, looking there were more cameras here than at the oscars,

for example. is that all there that's here? >> i have no doubt that is the central idea for the coverage. it is as significant as what happens in that conversation. i think that is part of the reason the mueller indictment is such an important preface to this event. it is very much by design those were laid out at the granular level how much we know about russian hacking. counter espionage investigation is one of the most important deterrent steps investigators can take. it's called attribution. it's when you show here's how we figured out what happened. this is what we know. that's designed in an ideal world to deter future attacks, future hacks, future meddling. so on the one hand you have mueller and his team taking a shot across the bow at the russians saying we can name names. we've got individuals. we can zero in on who the alleged bad guys are. and at the same time you have trump gearing up for this summit about nothing, acting like it's not important all and the contrast couldn't be shafrper.

>> we are just getting started here. peter strzok reminds us why it's a bad idea to text, never text ever. why it's difficult for allies to decipher which president trump to believe. "kasie d.c." back after this. insurance that won't replace the full value of your new car? you'd be better off throwing your money right into the harbor. i'm gonna regret that. with liberty mutual new car replacement, we'll replace the full value of your car. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ my mom washes the dishes... ...before she puts them in the dishwasher. so what does the dishwasher do? new cascade platinum does the work for you, prewashing and removing stuck-on foods, the first time. wow, that's clean! new cascade platinum.

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i want to pick back up on the point andrea mitchell was making before we went to break. as the president prepares to meet with a world leader whose government is known for jailing

and allegedly killing journalists, today he put out this tweet. writing in part, quote, much of our news media is indeed the enemy of the people. here's what happened when the two met just over a year ago. >> president trump reached out twice to shake president putin's hand, then as reporters started to leave, putin, leaning over to whisper something. a joke jabbing the journalists, asking if they're the ones who insulted president trump. >> the largest newspaper in finland put up 300 billboards along the route from the airport to the summit aimed at both leaders reading, quote, mr. president, welcome to the land of the free press. time and again on foreign soil, flanked by world leaders, the president has lashed out at the u.s. press. >> take questions from -- cnn is fake news. i don't take questions from cnn. john roberts of fox, let's go to

a real reporter. you can pick a reporter. baltic reporter. real news, not fake news. should i take one of the killer networks that treat me so badly, fake news? who are you without of curiosity? >> cnn. >> i figured, fake news, cnn, the worst. >> it wasn't until i became a politician that i realized how nasty, how mean, how vicious and how fake the press can be. they have been fake news for a long time. they've been covering me in a very, very dishonest way. do you have that also, by the way, mr. president? >> i want to make sure we're looking at this in the broad strokes with the idea of press freedom being one of the key indicators of democratic freedoms and how much any given country embraces the freedom of the people that it governs. and, andrea mitchell, you had mentioned this earlier. i have to say, previous white

houses of both political parties had track words of defending journalists who were traveling with them in foreign countries. there was an incident i remember with the chinese government in particular where the u.s. administration pushed back and insisted on access. is this something that is doing long-term irreparable damage to the perception of america as a leader on this? >> i think it is. and in particulate a time when you have hardline populist movements, far-right movements also being supported in one instance by an american ambassador in germany, very offensive to angela merkel and to a lot of people in the state department, foreign service officers, not at all criticized, of course, by this state department. back in the day i remember being in sudan in kartum with

condaleeza rice make sure we got in for a photo opportunity. when i was dragged out she demanded an opportunity before she would continue the trip with the foreign ministry when the leader let this happen in his version of the oval office. so, they have all been fierce defenders of a free press. far-right, center, doesn't matter who. that's why this is so bizarre, frankly. >> incredibly sharp contrast. as you pointed out earlier, stalinist rhetoric. let's go back to frankly what happened earlier this week, which has perhaps been lost in the news the last 48 hours. throughout his visits to brussels and the united kingdom last week, the president repeatedly said things he would either go on to completely whack back or at least soften. here he is talking about germany. >> germany is totally controlled by russia. germany as far as i'm concerned is captive to russia because it's getting so much of its energy from russia. so we're supposed to protect

germany, but they're getting their energy from russia. explain that. we have a very, very good relationship with the chancellor. we have a tremendous relationship with germany. we have had tremendous success and i congratulate you, tremendous success. >> and here's what he had to say about nato. >> in many countries -- tremendous amount of money for many years back where they're delinquent as far as i'm concerned because the united states has had to pay for them. >> the spirit they have, the amount of money they're willing to spend, the additional money that they will be putting up has been really, really amazing. >> and here he is talking about british prime minister theresa may, brexit and a possible u.s. u.k. trade deal. >> i would have done it much differently. i actually told theresa may how to do it, but she didn't agree -- she didn't listen to me. >> what did she say? >> she didn't listen.

no, i told her how to do it. that will be up to her to say. but i told her how to do it. she wanted to go a different route. >> so you would be prepared to walk away if they didn't give you the right terms? >> oh, absolutely. i think what's going on is very unfortunate. >> i didn't criticize the prime minister. i have a lot of respect for the prime minister. it's called fake news. we want to trade with the u.k. and the u.k. wants to trade with us. >> brian, which version of the u.s. president do european leaders think is telling the truth? >> the one where he insults them. and the problem is that these alliances take decades to build. they literally take decades to build the trust and they can be destroyed much more quickly. and donald trump is acting like a wrecking ball coming into these alliances and then standing over the rubble and saying, i didn't mean it, and getting back on air force one. and the problem is that the reverberations from these attacks are still rippling through u.k. politics.

theresa may had to give an interview today trying to clean up some of trump's comments. and she said that what trump told her to do was to sue the european union, which is a nonsensical thing that just betrays how little he knows about international affairs and bre brexit. and so it's a punch line already. the damage has been done. it's exacerbating internal did he virgin islands in german-- i u.k. he's trying to save face. it doesn't go away. that's why relations are at the worst point they've been, certainly the iraq war if not the end of the cold war in the early '90s. >> andrea mitchell, we have talked so many times on so many issues with this president about whether there is a change to a norm or a rule or a law or, you name it, some piece of our system that will be irreparable on the other side. and for the most part, people have at least many members of

congress who i talked to every day argue, hey, our system is resilient. this, too, shall pass. we will get through this. in your view, what would you say is the scope of the damage that was done to the american/european alliances over the course of the last week? and is it reparable? >> i think it is reparable, but as brian said, it's now really becoming part of the unpredictability is becoming part of their expectations about u.s. policy. so we are no longer involved in climate change talks. we are no longer involved in population and women's health issues. we have left all sorts of u.n. panels. now, they need reforms, perhaps, but reforming from inside is always a lot more effective than being on the outside looking in. the tpp is perhaps the most profound thing where we got out. therefore, all of the changes

that had been won by american negotiators are waived and tpp goes forward and china is the big winner because our asian friends and allies and economic competitors are all dealing with each other and with china, and not with the united states. there is a lot china has done, you know, badly in terms of intellectual property and other egregious trade practices, but we're not in the game in the way we're negotiating. and nafta is perhaps the best example where, aside from the other european and china tariffs that he's imposed, nafta, we walked away from a really improved deal with both mexico and canada, and now i don't know where that goes. but i don't think they're going to be able to negotiate bilateral agreements that are at all advantageous as nafta was to many sectors of the american economy. >> andrea mitchell, thank you so much for staying up till 2:30 in the morning. i hope you can get a little bit of rest ahead of your busy day

tomorrow. >> my pleasure, good to be with you. >> coming up, robert mueller's indictments against 12 russians came one day after fbi agent peter strzok testified on capitol hill. we'll dig into the politics and partisanship surrounding the russia probe up next. we're back after this. of the y. [music playing] (vo) progress is in the pursuit. audi will cover your first month's lease payment on select models during summer of audi sales event. i receive travel rewards. going new places. (oh!) going out for a bite. going anytime. rewarded! learn more at theexplorercard.com

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the ruling of the chair my motion to adjourn is not in order. >> the gentleman is not in

order. >> you're out of order. >> i'll show you out of order. you don't know what out of order is, mr. trash. >> i and the other men and women of the fbi every day take our personal beliefs and set those aside in vigorous pursuit of the truth. >> i want the truth. >> you can't handle the truth. >> you've embarrassed yourself and i can't help but wonder when i see you looking there with a little smirk -- >> wipe that smirk off your face. the doctor's deposition will be part of this record. >> this hearing is not even meritorious of an investigation by ace ventura pet detective. >> swoosh, and that's the game. nothing further, your honor. >> oh, man. so -- >> wipe that smirk off your face. >> you sat and watched all, how many hours? >> 9 hours 41 minutes. >> there you go. >> counting. >> right. none of us were at the time.

>> 60 rounds of questions. >> endless, the whole thing was endless, and made for television as our producer very expertly showed our audience. did we learn anything new? >> so, he testified behind closed doors for 11 hours, but they wanted to do it in public. and they did it for nine hours 41 minutes. what republicans are after and sources have told me in terms of what the larger investigation is about is they believe, and they think there is evidence to support it, that politics infected the original decision to open up the counter intelligence investigation against the trump campaign. but you wouldn't know it from the questions they asked. they all asked questions about the text messages which are hard to defend and peter strzok tried to apologize for them. i thought a democratic staffer had an interesting point. they all want to be part of the highlight reel there is one they're targeting, the president of the united states. whether they did themselves any

favors in terms of the public, i don't know that's the case. they tried not to defend peter strzok because his conduct is not defensible. but to call attention to what is a show trial and an attempt to undermine the mueller probe. >> they did defend him at times when it was personal. >> the purple heart. >> betsy, what was your take? >> there was one important new moment in the hearing that kind of got buried in the nine-hour marathon, and that is strzok, my understanding, is the first fbi official to say on the record in his official capacity that the steele dossier, which republicans have made a central part of their attack on the mueller investigation, confidential much substantiated dossier, what he said was the steele dossier was not a predicate for the opening of the mueller probe. the house intelligence committee's report that came out said george papadopoulos was the reason they opened the probe. but even the hpse investigation run by devin nunes close ally of the white house, even they

didn't go so far as ruling out any role the dossier had in opening this investigation. so for strzok to say that, it's actually a new piece of information that if anything is good for mueller to be out there. >> the important thing is strzok hasn't been involved in the investigation for more than a year. so you can't indict or attack the mueller investigation as it stands today by talking about someone who was involved a year before. and now after friday we have a grand total of 32 indictments, five criminal convictions, people sitting in prison at this hour or facing significant prison time for their relationships with the russian federation. i think the mueller investigation is professional. it's nonpartisan. it's out of the press limelight and i think it is proceeding very well. >> mike, what's the next piece of this? i mean, the committee spoke to lisa page behind closed doors. we may learn new information from her testimony? >> they are going to continue talking to her tomorrow. it was a friday, get away friday as you know on the hill. only so many people wanted to

stay around and talk with her. they're going to continue the conversation tomorrow. what some republicans coming out of the interview with her on friday were saying -- they were very critical earlier of her this week because there was back and forth whether she would appear. she was credible, mark meadows one of the strongest critics of her and strzok was saying. we'll find out what they said -- she was willing to answer questions peter strzok was not able to. in terms of the larger investigation, devin nunes is, even though his own committee put out a report saying the origins were this papadopoulos moment, he's been referring witness after witness to the judiciary and the oversight committees because he's not convinced. he thinks there was a deep state plot within the state department, within members of the obama campaign to get this investigation before the fbi to undermine the trump campaign. >> one of the points that strzok made -- we had talked through this on the set at different points throughout covering the story. betsy, he said that, look, i couldn't have done this by

myself, right? you want to think that this entire probe is politically motivated? yes, i sent texts that now i regret. the reality is there was an entire system that was built around me. i couldn't have launched this by myself. >> one of the conspiracy theories we've heard from some corners on the right about the mueller probe is peter strzok as an individual is sort of the key to the kingdom. he was this puppet master. he was involved in everything. and slowly as we learn more and more about the investigation, that conspiracy theory has just fell apart. one thing i can tell you, when peter strzok went in for his behind closed door interview a couple weeks ago, republicans pressed him whether or not he was involved in drafting and moving forward the fisa application that set up the surveillance of carter page. >> right. >> peter strzok said, nope, wasn't me. that's not a question that came up publicly because they didn't want to hear peter strzok once again reiterate he wasn't secretly controlling this entire probe. >> jeremy bash, betsy woodruff, mike, thank you for a great discussion at the top of the show. just ahead republican

congressman ryan costello. we're going to talk about a fascinating tidbit buried in the wave of mueller investigation. now members of the house wonder fft person is one of their own colleagues. we're back after this. no? do you want the same tools and seamless experience across web and tablet? do you want $4.95 commissions for stocks, $0.50 options contracts? $1.50 futures contracts? what about a dedicated service team of trading specialists? did you say yes? good, then it's time for power e*trade. the platform, price and service that gives you the edge you need. looks like we have a couple seconds left. let's do some card twirling twirling cards e*trade. the original place to invest online.

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it is an honor sharing the road with you. and of course, to the progressive snapshot app for giving good drivers the discounts -- no, i have to say it -- for giving good drivers the discounts they deserve. safe driving! the indictments handed down by special counsel robert mueller on friday revealed a great deal of new information including allegations surrounding a person running for congress in 2016. mueller's team alleges a congressional candidate reached out to russian agents in search of dirt on his or her opponent. the russians allegedly complied with that request and passed along damaging material. but we still don't know the name of that candidate, nor the race in which they participated. joining me now on set is republican congressman ryan costello of pennsylvania. congressman t' good to see you as always. i want to start with the question about who this person might be. you were on some of the initial lists of possibilities.

>> right. >> and you have emphatically denied it was you. >> i can do that again right here. >> please, go right ahead. >> it was not me. the statement that i wanted my press secretary to put out, she was unwilling to put out because it was something, no, but she didn't want to do that one. we went with absolutely no. >> you left the word that started with f off. is that what happened? >> exactly right. >> good to know. why did you take the stand you did in the way you handled information from the russians in your campaign? >> it's just a bad look, and i think that it's a slippery slope. if you start allowing people outside the realm of your political operation to somehow -- you don't know if the information is legitimate, number one. and number two, in the instance of it being a foreign entity, i think there is probably some criminality associated with that. >> do you think that the nrcc should make a commitment to do what you did in your race, and to not fund ads that are reliant on information that we know was hacked by foreign power?

>> i was surprised that that commitment wasn't made. my understanding is the nuance there is what if they already have that information? and by that i mean in my case, the information that i think was out there against my then opponent was stuff that you could find on a public database. if you can find something on a public database, somebody didn't pay their mortgage, a dui, whatever the case may be, that's fair game. but i think if you're going to -- in the case where like the podesta e-mail, if you're going to have a foreign entity go and crack open a political operation's e-mail system, that should not be used. it should be easy to make that commitment. >> essentially the argument is it was out in the public domain. the press is writing about it, et cetera. what you're saying is you should take a step back. would you call on the committee to take a step back? >> again, it depends upon what the information is. if we're talking about e-mails that were hacked, i don't think you should take hacked e-mails from someone's political operation and use them in

television ads. again f you're talking about -- otherwise available information, i don't see an issue with that. >> so, you have said of the mueller indictments more broadly that some of what your republican colleagues have had to say about the content should be taken with a grain of salt. what did you mean by that? >> because they're flying off the -- listen, rosenstein should not be impeached. that's ridiculous. this is not a witch hunt. i think actually the indictments that just came out demonstrate the validity of the investigation itself. russia is interfering in elections across the globe. i was in a bipartisan delegation last week, italy, bosnia. that's just two countries to name where russia is actively engaged in trying to press their political view amongst certain candidates in the campaign realm. i think that is a very serious issue and someone said this, and they were spot on. i think it was rosenstein. this isn't about even what the russians did to help donald trump. this is about -- because it's

going to be someone else next time. this is about russia seeking to impact our democracy and the integrity of our election process. >> so why won't more republican members in your auguste body -- >> is it auguste? there are people who do feel it is a legitimate investigation. and, you know, the circus that went on last week was just that, it was a circus. i think that most people feel that this is a legitimate investigation. it should proceed to its logical conclusion, whatever that is. i would also note at this point in time there hasn't been a demonstration that there has been american participation in what russia was doing to influence the election. that to me, what's the crux of what needs to be demonstrated or else the investigation should come to a close, whether or not there was any active participation -- >> the collusion question. >> yeah. >> take me sort of behind the

scenes of your conference in the wake of that strzok hearing. i mean, did you take that as one of our earlier panelists suggested, people were posturing to make it on reel on fox news to be seen by the president, is that your view of it? >> i think that's most people's view of it. let's be real here. >> clearly not the participants. >> i think they were all booked that night. i'm sure they got a lot of retweets for 30 seconds there. that's what some people do and democrats i think probably did it on the other side. but that's what that was. there was nothing terribly probative about that hearing at all. >> do you think that republicans are going to lose control of the house of representatives as of today? >> i think it's going to be close. i think that the democrat candidates are putting up some very big quarterly numbers. you still have to go race by race. and in the suburban districts you have a lot of talented incumbents, barbara come stock, mike -- >> virginia and colorado. >> yep. it's still going to come down to

the one on one match up. i do think the winds are blowing at republicans. we all know that. trump is not popular in a lot of these competitive suburban districts. so -- >> why is his approval rating so high, then? he a you ha >> you have to look district by district. if you were to look at a suburban district in pennsylvania, it would not be high. in his defense as a politician, republicans are all-in. they feel promises made promises kept. the issue they have is college educated republican women, number one, and independent voters. independent voters are not aligning themselves with the trump agenda right now. so as a republican you have to be an independent check and balance as an institutionalist on the presidency when you disagree. but still proffer why the economy is strong, why we are keeping america safe, issues of that sort where you can align policy wise with the president. >> congressman ryan costello, always appreciate your perspective. >> good to be with you. >> when we come back, signs the

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remember about the last trump putin meeting, we'll just say the past the pro log.

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tomorrow's meeting with russian president slads mere put putin. >> the stakes for this one-on-one summit rose dramatically this week. a new indictment of russian intelligence officers were interfering with the 2016

election. it's real thgreat that they ind russians, they're always up to bad things. >> russia attacks this country in 2016. >> i think we're greatly hampered by this whole witch hunt that's going on here in the united states, this russian witch hunt. >> i think the dnc should be ashamed of themselves. especially many of us think this that this summit should stand down. >> i think it's too late for him to cancel this summit. >> our most important strategic advantage in the world is that we're an ally ripp nation. today's russia is anned a very tear of the united states. there are certainlied y ed adve aspects of it. your first request of vladimir

putin should be tell us which airport we can pick up the 20 russians. >> i had. thought of that. welcome to t white house correspondent for the mcclatchey newspaper, staff writer for the atlantic, and former secretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs. sometimes to move forward, you is to look back, almost exactly one year ago came the first meetings dpens president donald trump and putin. it's easy do forget just how much happened. first the stated goals nearly identity. >> we'll be talk to president

donald trump about a number of things, syria, other parts of the middle east. >> ukraine and elsewhere and a support for hostile regimes including syria and iran. >> and the same reluctance to be definitive about election campering. especially i know you'll ask will we be talking about meddling, i will absolutely bring that in, i'll don't i'll have any gee i did it, i i did it, you got me. >> could have been other people in other countries, could have been a lot of people disappeared. putin and i discussed storming an impenetrable cyber unit so

that elections and other things will be guarded. >> what say you, sir? >> it's not the dumbest idea i have ever heard but it pretty close. >> the bigout come at least it seems was a big cease fire. our relationship with russia is worst now than it has ever been. yet, hope springs evernal. >> i think i would have a very good relationship with president putin, other people have said that but it didn't work out, but i'm denver than other people, they call it the winged witch hunt. >> one of the most controversial meetings came after the meeting when this story broke. >> donald trump jr., this is

during the campaign, jared kushn kushner, and then campaign chairman paul manafort, with ties to the kremlin. >> there is aparentally something about russian adoption. >> though the president's lawyer said president trump played no role in drafting the initial statement. we now know he did on the flight home. richard citizstengal, let's see this plays outs. sometimes this is referred to as

cya. this is just going to be these two men in private. >> the other advantage that vladimir putin has is that he speaks english. he would start answering the questions after i had asks them in english, so trump in a way is already behind a tennis players. the issue for trump is that is he going to give away the game. putin's fantasy is, an american president who unraveled eu, unravels nato, trump has already said, he's all right given half the game away, the deliverable was the meeting, and basically my my -- the cry means want to be part of the damt. >> it could have been that this

00 pound person in their basement that was not the case, and the president continues to say well it could be russia, it should be china, it could be something else. >> we have the president having his talking points saying it didn't necessarily have russia. but the biggest thing we lehred obviously in that indictment was that it was the gru, the same main apparently that was behind the attacks on the uk. putin has been trying to undermine and fracture the european union since it inception. he has been funding far right political parties in the eu

north to stabilize things in the west. he should be confronting him head on on this election experience. and one of the biggest issues i think that we're going to see coming out of this meeting and one of the biggest meetings that we have had to watch is what the dpreemt is on syria. the president is wanting to go in there and to said the united states really wants to pull out of syria, and can you eject iran from syria, and that's going to be another way for russia to inject it's power into the midwest. -- meet east. >> you have worked inside the republican party for many years, but this idea that the president kind or threw out there,

seemingly at random, he's asked, who are america's biggest foes, who are america's biggest foes, he these the european union. that seems like a fundamental writer that really reputating everything that the republican party has stood for the last 300 years. >> the way he acted at the nato sun -- was somewhere how rejecting lers to superhow a common regime. ronald reagan never met with any of his russian leaders in his first first term. and that was when the russian -- when the former soviet union was strong, russia is so week, that economy is not on par with rush

that's policy. they were thrown out not only because they annexed ukraine, they spent 1/10th of the their money on defense, but what's really important to understand, is that it a lot cheaper to endpauj in cyber war fare to meet your objectives than it is to -- that's what's happening, they're destabilizing not only our democracy, but democracies around the world which is a heck of another cheaper. >> it what did your -- in public, we see one thing, we see the strzok hearing, they're worried about their own politicalize and contribute sizing the president in public.

what is the depth of concern in your vow. when you talk with republicans not only on capitol hill, but in the white house, people who work for president trump, people who are reluctantly supportive of him throughout the election, is that they had kpartmental'sed in their michd mind storm over things like trade, or even immigration policy, but ultimately the party moves past them. they cat fwoirize the geopolitical angle of this administrati administration. this does not seem like anything sort of a wholesale reorientation of the republican party's approach with donald trump at the top of the party u towards major afairs. and ricknd i offset before we

came on, we're asked about republican party history, but if there's one thing that could be more shocking than anything else, if they topped in the le-laurean, when a president is asked about his foes, or his countries foes over the united states. he always starts with the soviet union. >> i think that there also seems to be a dwight within the white house himself, in some ways the president has divided himself and kind of a lot of the reporting over the weekend has been focused on idea that his advisors are over here. he also had to know that signal right before he goeses goes to

this meeting, someone asked him in a press conference whether pugh din was an enemy, and i think hi said, no, he's a competitor. you talked about how he talked about the journalist noding money, so as he was flying over to held cinco he congratulated president putin on the world cup. and yes, there are people that are worried that this is going to be him solo. there will be meetings that is going with with advise sorries. concern that all of this may be damage that can't be undone. >> i'm less concerned with what

he's doing with eu personally and what he's doing with the nato. this is the thing that has kept the world at peace for 740 careers. remember, it was coming after two world wars in one century where 100 million people were killed. my old office at the state department, was george marshals offic office. what i don't know is if we can recover from this behavior of this president that's unraveling this post war drama that we helped create. >> i think a lot of people will raching this president and asking why. why is he doing this? >> there are people who are of two minds about this, whether or not the president is just kind wanting to prove and with his ability to flatter, he can

foster a good relationship with vladimir putin who has been a rival and annen my of the united states really, for years and years, but ben there are another stream of fought that which is that the president is complicated in some way by tlad mere putin. and him meeting one-on-one does not take away that much from his idea. this is what mueller is investigating, why has the president had in -- to the point where he criticizes our allies, our close e allies, even after his own national intelligence community even after his top intelligence officer in the united states, dan coatses, the director of national spell negligence saying these war

beats are taking place, so the biggest question now is whether or not it's trump's policy that's running the show or if it's somebody else's problem. bill prouder says he has been vladimir putin's foreign visitor for a tech indicate. as we go to break, a brief reminder of what the president was up against in his russian counterpart. both mentally and physically.

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s. ahead of president trump's meeting with vladimir putin, a longe-time adversary of the russian strong man has been giving good advise.

the magnitsky. browder's advise for president trump, do not engage putin at all. he will lie to you, flatter you i trick you and betray you. bill browder joins now to talk more about this. bill, thank you so much for being here, i really appreciate it. your advise, your listening to advice advice -- for putin, money is greater than human life. >> well, first of all, let's just start out with the whole arrangement as it is right now. we have a country, russia, which

has an economy the size of new york, they have a military budget, which is 90% less than the united states and we have a leader of this country, vladimir putin who's effectively a war criminal, bombing women and children in syria, taking over large part of ukraine, he actually doesn't deserve to sit at a table with the most important person in the free world. and so as a first place, this summit shouldn't be happening, it ill advised and pugh pin is the big winner before it even starts. >> cha do you know about vladimir pugh tichb that could help explain or take us potentially behind the scenes of what that's going to be like. no translators, what kind of advantage does that give putin.

>> so pugh pin is a guy who's very clever, he was trainered in kgb tactics, he was ahead of the kgb, he looks for people's weaknesses and then capitalizes on them. the last two presidents who met with vladimir putin, both thought they could do business with vladimir putin. president president looked into and -- and then president obama had an idea of doing a reset with russia, which turned into an even bigger disaster. so all those people who think they can use their personal charm with putin, putin just laughs. i can get a whole bunch of free

byes in case everybody gets mad at me. >> you know how money is important to vladimir putin, you know earlier in the show, natasha ber trand, what is it that might make the president of the university feel as though as needs to solace it vladimir putin? i mean is that possible based on the president's business dealings? >> everybody's interested in knowing the answer was there collusion or wasn't there collusion, there's one person who does, robert mueller, he has the capacity to wiretap, to subpoena, to prosecute, to question witnesses. the markable the indictment he issued on friday, that the level

of detail the inboxes of emails, the web addresses and who they belong to, bit count the whole thing, he has the capacity to get to the bottom of this, is there or is there any speculation. it is odd that president trump is being so kindly towards vladimir putin, but at the same time, his administration has actually been quite tough on pughen the and his cronies. while trump is tweeting all these nice things about bu tin, his treasury secretary is sanctioning some of the giggest oligarchs. so out a very confusion situations as to who it's doing what and why they're doing it whatever happens in this conflict, sang decides if they

will lyft sanctions. >> rick stengel. can i get you to weigh in on the government's policies and the way the press talks about putin? >> bill browder has been a real -- he'd been under unimaginable pressure against the russians and i just convey them. i mean the manisky act which grew out of bill's trials to, putin desperately doesn't want to have the oligarchs to be sanctioned. his power comess through the people -- trump is always praising putin, but the government is continuing those sanctions.

what we have to watch out for in helsinki, is the president asking to release those sanctions. >> he hasn't ruled out out, just like he hasn't ruled out the possibility of reck nicing cry mia. we don't know what the agenda is, we don't even know what the president's sierraa policy is, because given his spans on what we have seen in the past, in terms of crimea already belongs to russia anyway, i would not be surprised in the least. >> thanks to all three of you,

really appreciate it. when we continue i'm kassie d.c. >> we learned that judge cal kavanagh enjoys people's pass dimes, and learned that he and his friends buy tickets to baseball games and that he pays his bills. >> the forrest, the trees and the likely next justice on the supreme court. we're back after this. (vo) why are subaru outback owners always smiling? because they've chosen the industry leader. subaru outback holds its value better than any other vehicle

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supreme court brett kavan h kavanagh -- here's what senate leaders in both peters told me about it this week. >> do you think there's any chance a republican votes with you on this? >> i do, they said that no one would vote with us on hca, there's senator helder, there are others who are in a real

pickle. >> is is there in vur you anything that could prevent brett kavanagh. >> they cant stop you, i sure hope not. >> supreme court hearings can be long and potentially unpredictable. but from where i sit and based on you know talking to a lot of senators up on the hill, it seems as if bet kavanagh as very little hope of becoming the next supreme court justice. it's possible with the long paper trail that kavanagh has not just in judicial cases, obviously, there's a lot of

stones to turn over, and democrats around town can turn them over as possible as they can. the point you made to mcconnell is the right one, democrats can't stop them, while we have seen republicans have been very good at stopping themselves, again, barring the very unforese unforeseen, he's going to be very unconcerned. >> this is an example of why, supreme court pick, he went with a choice, a very conventional, conservative choice, and when you talk to republicans like mitch mcconnell, he has made judges on the courts, the product of his political life. >> that's exactly right, i could praise president trump, he's made good supreme court picks f from my perspective, they're

trying to make calvanaugh a radical and he not a radical. i think that the democrats risk chances of not olding zmat seats in the united states, like west virginia, like missouri, by making in a litmus test, because if you have a trump state, with a trump supreme court nominee, and you've got a democrat in that senate seat and that democrat votes against trump democracies they're going have something to run on. they have made the supreme court -- they have both done it, america will end as we know it. roe v. wade issing go to end as we snow it. >> the whoug white house does seem to be mounting a behind the

scenes anyway. a pretty likable dpi who also who speak very highly of him, they are working to kind of inoculate -- >> for a white house that seems disorganized and late to counter criticism, this is actually organized for them, i mean they have put staff in charge of putting a message out, they have gathering good investigation about him, they want to get out. it's remarkable. they did the same thing last year for kneel gorsuch, that a lot of republicans will be very happy about it. while they always feel that missile mcconnell is going to get it done for them. >> it's the first time in quite a while to cover obama.

>> what you describe as exactly normal. >> yes, exactly. >> coming up, two members of congress join me to talk about what is still unresolved. you're watching kassi d.c.

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these may worsen with anoro. call your doctor if you have worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain while taking anoro. ask your doctor about anoro. ♪ go your own way get your first prescription free at anoro.com. i think what's happened to europe is a shame. i think the immigration allowing the imgragts to take place in europe is a shame. i think it changed the fabric of europe. and unless you act very quickly, it's never going to be what it is. and i don't mean in that a positive way. i think allowing millions and millions of people to come in to europe, is very sad. i think you're losing your culture. >> that was president donald trump speaking to the british newspaper the sun, about

immigration in europe this week. and those comments come ooze those reports continue to show, migrant parents struggling to reunite with their children here in the united states. i'm joined by democratic representative danger bass -i d think this is a story that very much deserves our continued focus. and congressman you were just down on the orderer, what did you see there, what is not under way, did you see the things you came to look for. i visited three centers with senator jigillibrand out of new york. we venn chured to brownsville and then to kearn county, there were lots of problems, you can tell that the trump administration was woefully unprepared to deal with

separates so many children from their family. and i think the most troubling thing that we saw, particularly at the detention center in mechaniccallen, that you had a girl that was two years old, and they wouldn't let herr near her father. and one of the hhs facilities that we visited in brownsville, you have eight boys for every case worker there, when we were there, there were 1,400 boy s there were there, they're only reunites 125 to 150 a week, and you just, when you leave, you tell yourself there's no way they're going to mr. able to unify al of those thin with their family. >> and the fact that we have actually misplaced the children with their parents. we don't know where the parents and children are. >> one of the thicker that wework is improving our foster

care system. it is really our government inflicting child abuse. the idea that you would separate parents with children, and i'm convinced that of the 2,000 children, i think few will be reunited. when a parent is departed, how are they posed to find their child again. one mother knew where her child was, he said if you want your child back, you need to come up with 1$1,500. i believe that a lot of these children will wind unin the foster care system which is already overburdened because of the opiod crisis. this is just egregious. >> i want to get you guys to

both respond to also what we played at the president there at the top of the show. essentially saying that he thinks what's happening in europe, means that european cultures are losing their chul chur. what is he saying? >> i think he's talking about race, he's essentially saying, as he has said here, if you're coming from norway, it's fine, but if you're coming from other countries he has a problem with that. he's also talking about the fact that a large number of people are of the muslim faith. >> if you think about stephen miller, who's this top immigration strategist in the white house. this is a guy that grow up, and when he went to high school told one of his best friends that he was no longer going to be his friend anymore because he was latino. and this guy is absolutely warped, he is the one that said that he was actually happy to

see children willing separate from their families. he told other people in the white house this, and as long as he's being advised by someone like that, immigration is going to be a problem. it doesn't matter what you do. >> children in who our county threw are completely fraum advertised. even when the parent is not appropriate. we will talk years later and say you know my mother had afternoon addiction problem. why didn't you separate me from her. now you're talking about children who are being separated from political reasons, and the damage that is being inflicted on them, and now we're taking it so far as to we're making judgments as to whether they should be reunited. >> if you think there is an abusive parent, or if it's a smuller, that is catching up with people who are here

legitimately. while i have you here, i do want to speak politics every so carefully. my question for both of you, congresswoman, i'm interested in, we can start with you, do you think that whoever is the democratic leader come next year, whether that be the speaker of the house, or still the democratic leader, should there be changes to the senior rules in the democratic caucus to try to make ways to newer general ragal leadership, they put limits on their chairman and other things. >> i actually chaired the dramatic caucus rules committee. and the irony is that it is not absolutely. so all those -- >> do you think there should be

seniority limits? i think if you have a mechanical limit, i think that's problematic and i think that's manifested in the republican caucus because they have a dog eat dog environment. >> their leadership is a lot younger, congressman, do you have a take on this? >> i will tell you that we need to make sure as democrats that we get the 23 seats that we need in the majority, and there's been a lot of talk and speculation of who's going to be what, and all these things are going to take shape, and avenue election. which choose who's going to be on what committees, but until then, we need to be focused on who gets those 23 seats, because we won't have anything to fight over if we don't get to that magic number. >> i also come to a state from california, where we have term

limits, i can tell you the chaos where that ensued. finally the voters went to the -- >> thank you both very much for your time tonight i really appreciate it. still to come, they're running. back after this. brk

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elizabeth warren is not running for president. just ask her. but, wait. according to the "new york times," they reached out to key democratic office holders. what do the states have in common, iowa, nevada, and south carolina, just part of a new piece that looks into the allies of joe biden, corey bookers, sanders, and the steps that people have taken in reaching out early. this feels like the start of a 2020 campaign. great reporting by martin and burns who did it from the outside in, calling all the usual suspects in the early states, so to speak, discovering quite a few of them have received phone calls. >> and the folks in the early

states, as we know about the talk, they love calls from reporters, and they were more than willing to dish on the perspective 2020 folks. >> one of my favorites, i have to stay. >> and, look, i think all of us who are still mentally recovering from the '17 republican primary, buckle up. i spoke with the smartest person in the democratic party months ago about the still-forming, obviously, 2020 mason 2020 primary, and all joking aside, how many people run. he said straight faced, minimum 25, and could be 35, and, boy, oh, boy, if you wind up with a -- >> two kids tables. >> three or four, right? i think all jokes aside and all exaggerating aside, we're in for something that makes 2016 look light by comparison. >> being through that consulting for ted cruz, that wide debate by donald trump, what's advice to the democratic candidates?

i wonder if they are not going to run into the same problem republicans ran into in 2016. >> absolutely will. i believe donald trump is beatble, and he is beatable, but if you pick the wrong candidate -- like, elizabeth warren, so far to the left that people -- i know this makes viewers upset, but i just don't think that she -- i think she may lose to him. you got to get -- the problem with donald trump, is they talked about this before we came on air, is no one really any end knew how to deal with donald trump, like, how to counter act him. >> i, i guess, what's that leave for the democrats, oprah? >> oprah? i mean -- >> she says she's not running. >> mark cuban. oprah, i mean, look, howard schultz. >> leaders bracket. >> the real question is, you know, if, in fact, warren is too far left for flyover country,

democrats are desperate to be competitive in again is not the entire democratic primary field going to be racing far left on every issue under the sun. that's how republicans want to portray that primary. for sure. >> when we return, what to watch for in the week ahead. you're turning onto the street when you barely clip a passing car. minor accident - no big deal, right? wrong. your insurance company is gonna raise your rate after the other car got a

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in the week ahead, there's obviously one agenda item, but what are you watching? >> okay, from aside the summit, tomorrow is the day that a judge is going to hear, again, about the piece involving what we

talked about before, the children separated from the parents. friday, there was a a hearing, and the judge was not happy with the administration or justice department and called them back. we'll hear about it tomorrow and expect an update on what's going on. >> what are you watching? >> in austin, texas, the republican committee national meeting. >> love those. >> super exhilarating stuff. but for a political nerd, it's actually kind of fun. look, this is spinning it forward, people are freaked out talking 2020, but interesting rule changes could be able to help trump not ginoculated froma primary charllenge. >> i'm in on the putin summit. i want to see how one liar reacts with another liar and what comes from it. could be a turning point for trump. either he will roll over for pew tip. he's already raised him up, or

he could do the right thing and stands up to him. he shouldn't be asking any questions there, but telling putin. >> we may never know. >> may never know. >> interested in the hillary clinton tweets, great world cup, question for president trump meeting putin, do you know which team you play for? back to 2016. that's all for us tonight. back next week from 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. eastern, and for now, good night from washington. this is an msnbc special series. ♪ cool, can you touch it? buy it? become it? >> who decides what's cool and what's not? >> for a person, what's cool, doing something that no one else has done. >> every brand wants you to believe they have the edge on cool. >> cool.