for president trump to side with the american intelligence community over the assurances offered by president putin. in three days he contradicts his own intel chiefs. this time the question was about whether russia is still targeting the united states. something his national security team has testified under oath to be exactly what russia is doing. but donald trump's answer was no. >> is russia still targeting the us us, mr. president? >> in case you missed that, here it is again. >> is russia still targeting the u.s., mr. president? >> in the past 48 hours we can put up a count down clock for the double negative explanation from the president himself. so far no one has made a credible attempt at walking back 9 day three clean up of the day two walk back. sarah huckabee sanders tossed some word salad in the mix. the problem with her explanation is it came 2 1/2 hours after donald trump publicly disagreed with the assessment of his own

intelligence agencies and on the heels of his universally panned performance in hell sinch i, if it were a mistake, any white house, including this white house could have cleaned it up immediately. the press core sits ten steps away from the white house secretary. this is not what that appears to be. here's the press secretary trying to spin the president's latest disagreement with his own dni. >> i had a chance to speak with the president after the comments and the president said, thank you very much and was saying no to answering questions. the president and his administration are working very hard to make sure that russia is unable to meddle in our elections as they have done in the past and as we have stated. >> and to illustrate just how out of step the president is with his national security team on the threat that russia represents to our elections, here is his own director of national intelligence just last week. >> it was in the months prior to september 2001 when, according to then cia director george

tenet, the system was blinking red. and here we are nur two decades later, and i'm here to say the warning lights will blinking red again, these actions are persistent, pervasive and meant to undermine america's democracy on a daily basis regardless of whether it is election time or not. >> it's only wednesday, but "the new york times" tries to put the week in context. quote, mr. trump's comments were the latest in a dizzy being collection of conflicting statements from mr. president trump since he emerged from the meeting with mr. putin. michael hayden tweeted, omg, omg, omg. here to help digest the omg developments, jeremy bash, cia and the pentagon, washington post correspondent ashley parker. and with us on set, aaron blake,

washington senior political reporter and eli stokols, reporter for the l.a. times. jeremy bash, let me start with you. you have worked with and dealt with intelligence for your tour there. talk about what it does, not just to the heads of these agent sitz, but for the people who work under them, many layers under them, so hear the american president so blatantly and repeatedly contradict the universally agreed upon assessment of the intelligence community. >> here's the problem, nicole. when an intelligence officer of the united states goes out and tries to recruit a human asset, whether that individual is behind enemy lines or report on the actions of an adversary government or proliferation network, what our cia officers do is say to that humana set, listen, our president needs this information. our president needs in information to protect america, to protect the west and to protect flee dom around the

world. now we can't do that. the people risking their lives, the agents they're sworn to protect, those people cannot couldn't on the president of the united states. we have him taking the word of an adversary. vladimir putin has two moral enemies. one is nato because he sees that as a tool of america and he successfully got donald trump to undermine nato this week. and the second is the u.s. intelligence community and the fbi in particular because those are the entities that have been able to penetrate the russian government, find out what they're doing and actually roll up russian activities here in the united states. i wraant you to watch an intervw with dan coates. i want to put this in the context, what predates his presidency. i guess that in the transition, his war with the intelligence community was one of the flash points of that period between the election and his inauguration. and it seems to be his distrust

of his own appointees at the intelligence agencies ongoing. let's watch and talk about it on the other side. >> your dni dan coates said that america's digital infrastructure is at a critical point right now. >> yeah. >> similar to what it was like in some ways before 9/11 and we're susceptible to a large-scale attack. do you agree with that? >> well, i don't know if i agree with that. i'd have to look. >> who says that, i don't know if i agree with him. that is his own hand-selected leader of the intel jents community. >> and i think that clip, more than what the president said next to vladimir putin, more than what happened today in that pool spray at the white house, shows just exactly where the president is coming from. today was -- >> distrust. >> it was suggesting he differed with dan coates, something dan coates said, but he wasn't directly talking about it, he wasn't asked about it. he was asked directly about something dan coates said. dan coates wad quoted and

saying, i don't know about that. despite dan coates, admiral rogers, even mike pompeo, truhi is something that has been acknowledged that russia would try this again. the fact the president either wouldn't know that or wants to call this into question is clear from today. >> i think pompeo, not just his ally, someone he was close with, he's now head of the state department. rogers and coates are his appointees, these are not the career people he likes to rail against like he does the fbi and did doj. >> if you go back to the hearing in the senate intelligence committee, the warning was more pronounced than the hearing. dan coates was warning about the fact that basically trump was not taking this seriously enough. he had not been given authorization -- roger said this as well. they had not been given authorization to go above and beyond normally what they would

do to guard against this. this has been a subplot a long time and the president knows it probably. >> there is a law in white houses that are admired in crisis. i know, i was in one meyered in crisis. this white house took a shovel and dug itself 2 feet deeper. was what sarah huckabee sanders said a gaff? it was the president again doubling down on this known instinct of disbelieving the intelligence community. >> the white house is donald trump. donald trump is the one who keeps digging because i responds to every question. he's in that meeting room today. the cameras are leaving and he can't not respond to that shout of -- he's trying to, but he mouthed the word no. it's pretty clear what he was saying and it makes what sarah said in the briefing, oh, he was just saying no, i'm not answering the question. it's not credible. and so you sit there and you watch all this stuff and you just see this constant gaslighting over and over from not just trump but especially the people trying to explain

what he's saying. if you view it in the larger context of all the statements, standing next to vladimir putin monday, refusing to say anything tough or reality based what russia did in the elects, this is a president who for 18 months manufactured his own reality and republicans have gone along with it. what was different and why so many are not going along with it the same way is this is about our national security. and you could sit here and say we don't need to pass legislation. trump understands the threat. monday made it very plain and obvious, it showed the entire world he does not appreciate or care to see the threat posed by rush skpij that's why the reaction to this has been different, you see a white house and president who doesn't apologize or backtrack, backtrack being from the statement he made in the cabinet room and backtracking from what he said on monday. >> let's go a little deeper. the reason we know they're lying

in they are clean ups, you know instantly when you're a press officer how something is playing. you see it on twitter instantly. for them to come out and say, he meant to insert a double negative. for her to come out and si say, she would have to walk 15 steps to tell the entire press core and the world that is not at all what donald trump meant. their efforts at clean-up have no credibility. >> i think back to being in europe last week. the sarah huckabee sanders statement that came out was inexplicable about john kelly grimacing at the table when president trump was grimacing. he was unhappy with the breakfast. he thought there would be pastries. the white house is throwing their hands up, sarah huckabee sanders saying, i can't come up with anything, just kind of giving up. yes, they have to make the effort. but deep down, you get the sense

that they know that their explanations, their walk backs -- >> their credible. >> not credible at all in the totality of the things donald trump has said. >> ashley areparker, you have s remarkable reporting. sarah huckabee sanders described her job as press secretary as serving as an 2einterpreter of e president's words. >> i am interpreting what the president said. i'm not reversing it. a was in the room as well and i didn't take it the way you did. >> i've never heard her use that word before. is that something she says behind closed doors, that she's trying to interpret the more bizarre things he says in tweets? >> that jumped out at me, too. i will say it sort of seemed candid. it did seem like a candid assessment of what a lot of these people in the white house do. maybe a charitable or maybe overly optimistic assessment. take the vice-president.

i've been on a number of foreign trumps with him where he is acting as an interpret earn or reassure error whisperer. what that really means with a wink and nod, this is all to the aides, the thing the president said that alarmed you and the rest of the globe, don't worry, that's not quite true. but at the end of the day as we've seen, donald trump is the president. the entire white house is president trump. everything else emanates out from him. his aides can do whatever they want. they can do them credibly, credibly. if you have a . who hours later is going to make their statement, it makes their jobs incredibly hard. what she was saying, all they can do is interpret because they certainly can't control. >> what we saw today comes on the heels of some extraordinary reporting you have in today apartments paper. let me read from a piece.

folks were a little freaked out today, almost like zombies about how bad this was. talk about what you discovered, i think you were reporting this out when you were last on the show. talk about sort of the picture that has come together on what is only the third day of this helsinki week. >> sure. in talking to a number of aids and people who are in touch with the white house, there is a sense that, for whatever they might say publicly, they knew this was bad. there was on some level a kind of radio silence which is frustrating as a reporter. and just a sort of resignation. some people i talked to, what were the meetings, what about bill shine say. we knew this was bad. no one needed to tell us how bad it was. everyone was trying to figure out how to clean it up. there were a number of challenges through the president

himself. they didn't understand. i'm speaking of the helsinki comments. if he wanted to clean it up or double down, not so much because he believed what he sid there standing next to president putin. he didn't like the negative criticism. the white house communications operation, there is confusion about who is in charge, who is running it. for rapid response, something basic, which you know, getting talking points out till hours after trump's comment to putin and it was too late to shape the message in those crucial 24 hours. >> there are two nuggets in your story that jump off in the point you just made. one was how rattled the president was from criticism of someone who often serves as a surrogate, newt gingrich.

kelly did damage control. kelly urged lawmakers to share their opinion about trump's helsinki performance. believing that hearing would help the president understand the magnitude of his blunder. the white house chief of staff is green lighting messages that he as white house chief of staff cannot do himself. >> two points. one i should say up front. we did put this in our story. of the white house disputed that account, but we heard it from a number of people that believed it and we put it in. as you know, the president is someone who is often more receptive to criticism. he sees through the filter of hd lens. he will respond to a fox news host talking to him on camera or an ally on television or he sometimes tires of his actual aids and is more compelling to have a conversation with someone he trusts, maybe someone who is

in the government. maybe a long-time friend who has nothing to do with any of this, no security clearance but has been successful in business. the president gets inputs in a lot of different ways and it seems like general kelly recognized that. >> jeremy bash, try to put this whole week into context for us. oneness is no way to run a rodeo. two, we should have been focussed on dire changes in our foreign policy posture as a country. the distancing of ourselves from the u.k. and zwrerm any, the personal attacks on angela merkel and >> tracy: may. cozying up to vladimir putin. those are big shifts in foreign policy. yet we are on day three of walking back of the clean-up to the blunder they didn't acknowledge 36 hours despite we are getting our news in print news the next morning.

>> this week was the culmination of a dramatic shift in foreign policy since world war ii. it started with the break up of analogies then obviously went to the singapore summit where he kind of conceded on the fly we wouldn't be -- the secret summit with vladimir putin, which his aides had no idea what the purpose of it was. and to this day we actually don't know what the real agenda of that meeting was and i don't think we're going to know until we get some information about what was discussed during that two-hour one on one secret meeting. >> jeremy, do you have any doubt that there is a recording in the possession of the russians of that meeting? >> i'm not sure about that. i mean, there may be. it's possible. the russians could have done it because they wanted to hold it over the head of the american president. i think that's certainly possible and i think any prudent planning would assume that.

i don't know if we'll ever hear a recording or see a transcript. here's the peril of going into that room alone, no matter what the russians say we can't dispute it. even the act, competent act of doing a one on one meeting put the american country in a compromising situation, our adversary. >> the ava scary is watching president trump day three watching him take his foot out of his mouth. >> thank you for your reporting, ashley. is donald trump considering a deal with putin? americans including the former ambassador, our friend michael mcfaul. also ahead, should donald trump's translator from his putin one on one, expect a subpoena? the only witness to the president's advisor free meeting is asked to testify before congress about that incounter. the latest about a russian spy.

what we are learning about her ties to russian intelligence service. stay with us. we do whatever it takes to fight cancer. these are the specialists we're proud to call our own. experts from all over the world, working closely together to deliver truly personalized cancer care. expert medicine works here. learn more at cancercenter.com you may be learning about, medicare and supplemental insurance. medicare is great, but it doesn't cover everything ...only about 80% of your part b medicare costs. a medicare supplement insurance plan may help cover some of the rest.

learn how an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company might be the right choice for you. a free decision guide is a great place to start. call today to request yours. so what makes an aarp medicare supplement plan unique? these are the only medicare supplement plans endorsed by aarp because they meet aarp's high standards of quality and service. you're also getting the great features that any medicare supplement plan provides. you may choose any doctor that accepts medicare patients. you can even visit a specialist. with this type of plan there are no networks or referrals needed. also, a medicare supplement plan... ...goes with you when you travel anywhere in the u.s. call today for a free guide. your hair is so soft! did you use head and shoulders two in one? i did mom. wanna try it? yes. it intensely moisturizes your hair and scalp and keeps you flake free. manolo? look at my soft hair. i should be in the shot now too.

try head and shoulders two in one. are you ready to take your then you need xfinity xfi.? a more powerful way to stay connected. it gives you super fast speeds for all your devices, provides the most wifi coverage for your home, and lets you control your network with the xfi app. it's the ultimate wifi experience. xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome.

russian authorities named several americans they want to question they claim were involved in quote-unquote crimes in their terms including former ambassador to russia michael mcfaul. does president trump support that idea, is he open to having u.s. officials questioned? >> the president is going to meet with his team and we'll let you know. we have an announcement on that. >> is that a topic that came up in their conversation? did president putin raise this with president trump? >> there was some conversation about it, but there wasn't a commitment made on behalf of the united states and the president

will work with his team and we'll let you know if there is an announcement on that front. >> what? the fact that the answer to that question was an immediate instant and emphatic no from the trump administration, but it is not normal. the white house press secretary saying she'll let us know if the president decides he's going to allow vladimir putin and russia to question an american citizen. if we're lucky enough to have a loyal viewer, you might recognize former ambassador to russia michael mcfaul. a vocal russia critic and now apparently one of vladimir putin's targets. all of it over conspiracy theory having to do with alleged money laundering in the clinton campaign. trump and putin now supposedly talked about mcfaul confirmed by the white house press secretary in the one on one meeting that we still know nothing about. joining us on set, a.b. today art, columnist for real clear politics and jason johnson, politics editor for the root and msnbc contributor. eli and jeremy are still with

us. jeremy, i want to start with you. governor mcfaul someone you worked with over the years. he's a friend of many of ours. this is stunning. we throw around the term banana republic a little too loosely these days, but this, if anything, is it. >> michael mcfaul has been an expert on u.s. soviet affairs, u.s./russian affairs going back 20, 25 years. he worked on the national security council. he was united states ambassador to moscow. the fact that the president of the united states would talk with vladimir putin about an investigation of a u.s. ambassador of an american citizen and american government official just shows the extent to which i think president trump in that one on one kind of gave it all up, gave it all up for team america. and basically he was led around by vladimir putin, vladimir putin dictated the agenda. we had no agenda going into that meeting. the president didn't know what he wanted to talk about. and when putin said, i want to investigate your people. he turned the tables on the president and it's amazing that

the president capitulated. goes to show the extent to which president trump is just totally deferring to one of america's most capable adversaries. >> and, jeremy, we throw around the term obliteration of norm of tweets that are rude and crude and crass. we throw around the term of behavior and conduct usually. but i've never seen an example of an obliteration of norms that could seriously endanger american diplomats around the world. we put a lot of career diplomats in dangerous places and you now have an american president talking to an american adversary about letting him investigate him in a criminal investigation. can you talk about the implication for american government employees and officials in the intelligence community and the military if a statement like that sets a precedent for the u.s. government? >> you know, we have ambassadors both political appointees, but also career ambassadors all over the wrorld in most of the capitals around the world. i think you're going to see a

very strong reaction nicolle to say don't hang us out to dry. we need to know we have the full backing, the full political backing of our government when we go out there and do the work you ask us to do. not only to diplomats. it applies to military officials, joint chiefs, combatant commanders, applies to intelligence officers. it applies to every single american who is doing the work on behalf of the american people all around the world. if the president of the united states doesn't have their back and is going to stab them in the back, we're not going to have the people on the front lines to protect us. a.b. stoddard, he was asked did you have any idea the government was going to do this to you? >> i'm asking honestly do you have any expectation your government will do that? >> i do. i don't expect president trump to do it, but there's a lot of good people in the trump administration. they know how crazy this is and

i hope they understand that by not responding to these outrageous claims, somehow some symmetry between an alleged cockamamie money laundering scheme, there is no symmetry to that and they have to push back publicly because if they don't it's yet one more victory for vladimir putin. >> your thoughts? >> it's so interesting what's happened since the walk back which seems like a long time ago now. the two letters and an a p-- apostrophe, it sounds like the cover they wanted to go back to business as usual. they want the focus of the conversation to be on how to confront russia and how to assure our allies in europe. they want it off of trump.

>> you just named three things they're never going to get. >> but with this sort of dramatic question that maggie haberman -- thank goodness she asked that question and her follow-up question in which sarah sanders admitted it was part of the two-hour meeting with vladimir putin. republicans now have to respond to ambassador mcfaul and they have to respond. what happened in that two-hour meeting? we can't move on even after this clarification from president trump and an insert of a few letters. we can't move on until we know why russian state media is pushing out propaganda saying there were some commitments that were made by the u.s. government to the russian government. the republicans -- it is incumbent on them to get those answers and they cannot move on and say there was a clean up effort so i want to talk about something else. if they don't drag the translator in, they have to find the answers from the secretary of state. but they have to find the answers out not only from ambassador mcfaul, but what else was discuss ed in that meeting.

it's frightening. >> jason, there are calls to bring up the translator. i don't know if there is any precedent for that. what is there precedent for these days, as well as the secretary of state. do you think republicans -- i'm tired of hoping against hope they'll find their voices, steel their spines. do you think they'll be pacified or do you think we'll see the translator testify? >> i don't think we'll see the translator testify. even if we did, they're not stenographers. the translator doesn't remember everything -- >> it's not their job. >> it's not their job to remember that kind of information. they may not be versed enough in everything that was talked about. what i find so disturbing about this, on two levels. number one, it demonstrates the fact that vladimir putin was so much more prepared in this conversation than the president was. he knew every single alt-right conspiracy theory -- >> he probably created a few of them. >> i wrote this one for you. he had the whole thing prepared. but also the fact that the president of the united states has consistently demonstrated he

will sell out the american people to any of these world leaders he wants to have a better relationship with. he didn't go against erdogan when his own team beat up american protesters. of course he'll sell an american ambassador. everyone in foreign service has to worry. if this nation accuses me of spying is trump going to sell me out? that weakens us internationally if people don't think they're safe. >> we know about the cockamamie idea of having putin and mueller co-interview the 12 or 13 indicted russians because they talked about it at the press conference. but this is one of the first real bombshells to come out of the secret meeting. what do you think the sort of vast scope of potential secret deals and, you know, shenanigans is that took place in that two-hour meeting? >> it certainly raises the question. that was another thing that sarah huckabee sanders was asked today. the fact they were talking about things like this does make you

wonder what else they were talking about. >> it certainly shows they weren't talking about big things. they were settling scores. this is about people that bugged them. >> that's a pretty bad omen. it's worth noting maggie's question was great and i'm glad she asked it. a lot of people skipped it twice on monday. the president described this from president putin. he called it an inkreshl offer. he wasn't pifl responding to the broader aspect of it, but the broad strokes of this idea mueller would interview russians and russia would interview americans of some stature was addressed by the president and he liked it and that kind of got lost in all this and now we're could be fronting something that got lost because the president was so friendly. >> it's a great point. of the president did give putin's proposal and because the president brags about not preparing, we have to assume it came from putin, his seal of approval. seal of approval for the

commander in chief about this idea they would do a swap of suspects of enemies of each state. >> this is why people were worried about the president being alone. >> why wasn't john bolton worried? why wasn't -- when is someone going to say he might giveaway an ambassador? he might giveaway a country? >> we haven't seen that yet. we don't know where the line is wrest. the president stood up next to putin. there was confusion. he teased it. putin has come up with this interesting idea. he didn't even explain what it was. he kind of dragged it out. you can see from having dealt with trump and having see how he is easily duped, led into positions even by his cabinet members like to tell him something they want him to do is his idea, there is so much manipulation going on. you can see putin going with this way. to trump it sounded like of a

great plan. it sounded like collaboration. and that was the way that he meanted. even though he wasn't specific about it monday. the first time he was talking about introducing it and laying it out, he was saying it was incredible. he was framing 2 as an act of good faith on the part of putin, that putin was willing to do this. pretty incredible offer. just tells you why people were so concerned about having the president alone with this former kgb agent for two plus hours with nobody in the room. >> donald trump making russia great again. after the break, the president picking up another russian talking point. this one is on tape. we'll show it to you after this. without starting from scratch. it brings your business up to speed, doing more with systems you have in place. it can bring all your apps to life and run them within your data center. it is... the ibm cloud private. the cloud that's built for all your apps. ai ready.

secure to the core. the ibm cloud is the cloud for smarter business. secure to the core. when it comes to strong bones, are you on the right path? we have postmenopausal osteoporosis and a high risk for fracture, so with our doctors we chose prolia® to help make our bones stronger. only prolia® helps strengthen bones by stopping cells that damage them with 1 shot every 6 months. do not take prolia® if you have low blood calcium, are pregnant, are allergic to it, or take xgeva®. serious allergic reactions, like low blood pressure; trouble breathing; throat tightness; face, lip or tongue swelling, rash, itching or hives have happened. tell your doctor about dental problems, as severe jaw bone problems may happen or new or unusual pain in your hip, groin, or thigh,

as unusual thigh bone fractures have occurred. speak to your doctor before stopping prolia®, as spine and other bone fractures have occurred. prolia® can cause serious side effects, like low blood calcium; serious infections, which could need hospitalization; skin problems; and severe bone, joint, or muscle pain. if your bones aren't getting stronger isn't it time for a new direction? why wait? ask your doctor about prolia. until her laptop crashed this morning. her salon was booked for weeks, having it problems? ask a business advisor how to get on demand tech support for as little as $15 a month. right now, buy one hp ink and get a second at 30% off at office depot officemax

i have president putin. he just said it's not russia. i will say this. i don't see any reason why it would be. >> it should have been, i thought it would be a little unclear on the transcript or unclear on the actual video.

the sentence should have been, i don't see any reason why it wouldn't be russia. sort of a double negative. >> is russia still targeting the u.s., mr. president? >> no. >> forever ruining the double negative for me. that was the president's long side journey from i believe putin on election meddling and back in just three days. it raises the glaring questions we've been talking about all hour, what did trump and putin talk about in the one on one meeting behind doors with no aides president and why is the president repeating this russian talking point now. >> membership in nato obligates the members to defend any other member that's attacked. let's say monte negro. why should my son go to montenegro and go to attack? >> i've asked the same question. montenegro is a tiny country with very strong people. >> or all bain i can't.

>> they're very aggressive people. congratulations, you're in world war 3. >> jeremy bash, what's wrong with these people? the reason his son should go and protect montenegro is because when america goes to war we call on our nato allies to come with us. >> that's right. and this alliance system has served americans and the american people so well. here's the president of the united states actually plotting with vladimir putin to undermine nato. nothing freaks out the kremlin more than nato. and so when the president says that nato expansion, which encompassed montenegro and it's been growing over these many years since the berlin wall fell, when the president kind of dises the nato enlargement, he is parroting a well worn well established kremlin talking point. >> let me put this up. montenegro, here was the

president shoving the leader. we'll try to rerack that for you. what gives? >> what's amazing about the fact that trump sees this firsthand as he reports on the white house, trump creates chaos on purpose. it's comfort zone. it's actually how he operates. there is no amount of shame or outrage, there is no regret. >> there it is. unbelievable. >> this sort of chaos makes him happy. so, when i was watching the nato summit last week, i realized that even the heritage foundation had released a report saying the central focus of the summit had to be -- the confrontation against russia and russian aggression. and the allies had to make that the number one priority they articulated. it is one of the purposes of nato. russian aggression is an existential threat to nato. putin's number one goal is to break up nato. the idea that trump made the

whole summit a circus about these payments and his bad comments about angela merkel kept them from a conversation about confronting russian aggression. so he could end the summit by saying, i've made it stronger. we're so committed. we're so united because we're all paying more. he was a little tense and dicey, but look, this is what he does. he does this two-step where he signs the communique after a really controversial summit -- meeting of the g7 in quebec where he wanted to invite the russians in and make it the g8 again. he signs the communique and look i'm really on board with nato, he is parroting the talking points and he is doing the bidding. it's fine for tucker my long-time friend to be anti-nato. it's not okay for president trump to insinuate that montenegro is going to start world war 3. >> let me push back. it's not okay. tucker is not my friend. it's not okay. the reason he would go to

montenegro, when we're in war against afghanistan, the coalition fought alongside us, either he's playing dumb or he's that dumb. >> some country could turn around and say that's america's problem. there are situations where we get attacked. when we got attacked on 9/11, the british could say that wasn't us, we didn't have to go. the very nature of this is you have to be prepared to go and help your allies. not only is the president helping russia one way or another, it's fundamental ignorance that he seems to have that some reporters are allowing him to have about what nato is actually supposed to do. i'm waiting for someone to finally call him on the fact he keeps saying our nato allies owe us money. they don't pay us. >> he thinks it's like golf dues. maybe he skims, i don't know. i don't have any evidence that he does. but this obsession with how much everybody pays, it's not like it goes into our -- this is about, you know, you lead by example

and you want people to pay more. but this doesn't -- it's not like a pot of money that then you can buy a bigger -- what is the obsession with dues? it's more than ignorance. it's either someone like john bolton, people are not informing him. we know he doesn't read his pdb, he's not going to observe it on his own. why do people accept flagrant lies about nato? >> his hypothetical involving montenegro is nonsense. he was talking about a situation in which montenegro is the aggressor. article five is about the common defense. this is if russia goes into montenegro and attacks them. this is if a nato ally attacks other people. we have gotten involved in wars. the nato hasn't come to our side in those wars because those were unilateral wars. this is not a blanket situation in which everybody in nato fights together in every single war. so i think that gets lost here a little bit, too, that this is a hypothetical that doesn't even make sense. >> any coalition, any trade

deal, multi lateral and the e.u. is a rip-off. everything is a rip-off if it's aiko ligs a a coalition and grouping. >> you were there. how does this hatred for nato manifest in terms of what the aides say, you know, there's a lot of time on foreign trips where you run into john bolton in the lobby. how do they -- do they duck and cover after he says something that's stupid? >> they step back and say john bolton's job -- this is from a spokesperson. his job is not to tell the president what to do. it's to help execute the strategy. everybody here is around the president, traveling with him on that trip is deferring to whatever he wants to do. and that's based on some hobby horse that he's been riding for decades about people ripping him off or whatever psychological thing that it is that roots that in him. and they just -- there is an acceptance of that. and being in brussels and at the summit for two days and sensing the unease from the europeans,

there were a couple american congressmen who were out there, senators actually who were there trying to reassure the europeans, look, there is full support for nato in washington. and people in the crowd said, no there's not. it doesn't matter what congress passes a resolution. 9702. what matters is that this president continues to make it unclear, to send mixed signals to the rest of the world and vladimir putin about how serious he is about article 5 commitments under nato. and that is something as long as there's doubt and the interview about montenegro is sewing more doubt about that, whether he'll follow through, that is something that really does not make the west and europe more secure. it makes it less secure and it plays right to putin's hand. there's no ability we've seen yet from anybody around the president to focus him on that and to get him to see it a different way. >> it goes back to every time he's been asked about it. h.r. mcmaster had to badger him into -- >> never been wholehearted from the president's gut. nothing has come from his gut.

>> usually spelled wrong. >> thank eli stokols for joining you. a foreign act takes an r-rated turn today as prosecutors argue she's a flight risk. i woke up in memphis and told... (harmonica interrupts) ...and told people about geico... (harmonica interrupts) how they could save 15% or more by... (harmonica interrupts) ...by just calling or going online to geico.com. (harmonica interrupts) (sighs and chuckles)

sorry, are you gonna... (harmonica interrupts) everytime. geico. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance.

booking a flight doesn't have to be expensive. just go to priceline. it's the best place to book a flight a few days before my trip and still save up to 40%. just tap and go... for the best savings on flights, go to priceline.

the russian suppiah rested on u.s. soil, maria butina in the last hour has been order to remain in jail pending trial after federal prosecutors argued she, quote, presents a risk of flight due to her connection to russian oligarchs. she offered seconds for position in a special interest organization. she was charged with trying to establish a back channel with officials including the nra under the direction of high-level officials in the russian government which she has pled not guilty to. the russian foreign ministry responded to butina's arrest tweeting a statement from its spokeswoman, quote, it looks as if the fbi instead of carrying

out their responsibility of fighting crime is implementing a political put-up job set by forces whipping up anti-russia hysteria in the u.s. injoining us now matt apuzzo, "the new york times" investigative reporter, paul butler now a georgetown law professor, both on red sparrow duty today. take us inside. >> today we're covering the leadership of the americans. what's so interesting about this is we now know why the fbi had to rush to arrest maria butina over the weekend. it turns out that she was packing up her things and moving money overseas and when the fbi came to arrest her, they found all of her stuff in boxes and a note to her landlord, terminating her lease. it appears the latest round of mueller crackdown may have inspired her to return to russia. >> the indictment on friday the 13th? >> exactly right. >> and she was here. >> she was here, exactly. she was here. she was operating with the

federal government is alleging she was operating as an unregistered foreign agent essentially operating -- they don't call her a spy, but the description is she's operating as a spy. she's operating clandestinely, she's answering to a top russian official. they have e-mails and twitter messages exchanged. i mean, she basically is being compared to the embedded -- in these e-mails she's being compared to the russian illegals living among us for years. >> paul butler, talk about what this means about how the justice department is approaching russian aggression on a parallel track really to the sound tracking presented to the country and the congress by donald trump. >> yes, so we have this indictment that suggests that maria butina is operating this back channel between the russian government and the republican party to try to funnel money through a group that sounds like

the nra. she's posing as a student and yet she's in constant contact with russian intelligence officers. and she's to arrange a meeting between trump and putin. but she's not charged with espionage, she's charged with these relatively low-level crimes, failing to register as a foreign agent. nicolle, prosecutors don't always reveal their whole hand, so stay tuned. this is not the last time we're going to hear about maria butina. i think robert mueller is really interested in what she has to say. >> jeremy bash? >> yeah, look, like matt said, this is like now season 7 of "the americans." this harkens back to the 2010 arrest of about a dozen russian illegals run by the russian intelligence services. they were living under deep cover for many years in the united states. one of the interesting notes from today's court filings was

the trade craft she employed, including it appears engaging in cohabitation, if we can keep it to pg-13, with a 56-year-old -- >> we're on cable, jeremy. >> this is the reminder to a 50-year-old male, when a 20-something russian finds you extraordinarily attractive, something is amiss. >> that's the homeland story line too. >> we've seen that trade craft. just take out your bingo card for one more moment, because i want to connect a couple of dots. first of all, the russian illegals in 2010 were sent back to russia. anna chapman. one of the officials who got free was skripal, who the russians tried to assassinate on the streets of the uk recently. who investigated for the fbi? bob mueller. he knows the russian file very well. who ordered the russian illegals operation from the beginning?

who was a line officer for the kgb back in the day? vladimir putin. >> you know, if she's a spy, she's a really lousy spy because at the same time that she picks up these federal charges from the federal prosecutors in d.c., he's also under investigation by federal prosecutors in south dakota and the fec for campaign violations and the senate intelligence committee. there was another part of today's hearing that was very much like an "americans" episode. the prosecutors say no bail because she might -- she's a flight risk. and in fact russian agents might try to whisk her away. and guess what, her defense attorney agrees and says in fact there are people from the russian consulate who are in the courtroom today. >> matt, can you talk about the -- step back a little bit and talk about the bigger picture. what does this tell us about what the justice department -- i don't know if this came out of the national security division or counterintelligence, but what does it tell us about how they are aggressively pursuing

russians in this country, charging people under violations is not that common, right? >> not common at all. this came out of the national security division at the doj rather than mueller. this began, this investigation began pre-mueller and then as they were sort of carving up the world when bob mueller came on board, it actually sort of stayed with the national security division, but mueller was getting updates because it was relevant. what's interesting to me is this began in 2013 and 2014 at a time when russia was seeing jeb bush and marco rubio as potential -- >> candidates. >> right. and these guys are not pro russia. so they were saying we're going to have to move the republican party a little bit towards russia, how do we do that? an then they said, well, man, let's use religious organizations and let's use the nra and we can make our contacts

and try to move the needle a little bit. and i think donald trump wasn't even on their radar screen at that point. obviously he comes in and is a sort of surprise candidate and suddenly he has pro-russia views so you can imagine them being like, wow, this is great. >> and talk about that. harry litman said on this program that this is collusion. it may not be the kind bob mueller is looking for, but this is the intersection of foreign assistance and assisting with political efforts, political plays in our democracy. >> right. that's why i've always said that collusion is like what do i do with that word, right? what does it mean, right? we've known that foreign governments are trying to influence our politics. it's really unusual that they -- the federal government lays bare kind of how this goes down. and i do think, as paul said, i think what you're going to see because this was a hurried case because they had to make the arrest over the weekend, this is only a criminal complaint. there hasn't been an indictment yet. so i do expect we'll see

additional charges in the indictment or at least a more fullsome and formal allegation by the justice department soon. >> eric, let's go back to the sex. just kidding. well, i don't want anybody to change the channel here. but there are questions about the nra and money and the trump campaign, and it is possible that as you sort of peel off the layers of the onion, there is more information and there are more details that could just raise new questions about the trump campaign and their interactions with the nra and potentially russians. >> i think the upshot of this if anything is that this is the story potentially that could make this something that regular americans can follow, just like they would watch "the americans," just like they watch "homeland." are people watching paul manafort's trial? of course not. do they know what 12 gru officials interfering is all

about? no. it's hard to follow, it's hard to grasp. half this country doubts it. if we see this trial move forward and the government lays out what is essentially and it's not technically a spying thing but for all intents and purposes that's what it looks like. if they detail this and kind of bring it from 2016 to today, everything she was doing, the russian government officials that she's talking to, this is the thing that can bring this home for people and make them understand exactly what the russian government is trying to do. >> paul butler, thank you. jeremy bash had to leave us. we have to sneak in our last break. we'll be right back.

the line between work and life hasn't just blurred. it's gone. that's why you need someone behind you. not just a card. an entire support system. whether visiting the airport lounge to catch up on what's really important. or even using those hard-earned points to squeeze in a little family time. no one has your back like american express. so no matter where you're going... we're right there with you. the powerful backing of american express. don't do business without it. don't live life without it. each of us is different. and each cancer is different. how it reacts, how it evades and adapts. and how we attack it. that's why at cancer treatment centers of america,

we use diagnostic tools that help us better understand what drives each person's cancer. this is what we mean by outsmarting cancer. and for some, it may uncover more effective treatment options. like christine bray. after battling ovarian cancer for several years, her test results revealed a potential treatment not considered previously a drug therapy that targeted her tumor. today, christine's metastatic cancer is in remission. this is precision cancer treatment. because at cancer treatment centers of america. we're not just fighting cancer. we're outsmarting it. visit cancercenter.com - and schedule an appointment with our cancer care specialists today.

man: it takes a lot of work to run this business, but i really love it. i'm on the move all day long, and sometimes i don't eat the way i should. so i drink boost to get the nutrition i'm missing. boost high protein now has 33% more protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals. and it has a guaranteed great taste. man: boost gives me everything i need to be up for doing what i love. boost high protein. be up for it. in the break this group wrote an episode of "the

americans." i thank them all for me here. that does it for our hour. i'm nicolle wallace. "mtp daily" starts right now with katy tur. >> hi, miss you in new york. come back soon, please. if it's wednesday, the president muddling on meddling just got messier. tonight, the laws of distraction. >> there's never been a president as tough on russia as i have been. >> why many republicans are defending the president's contradictions on russian meddling. >> well, he said he misspoke. plus, war of words. we'll talk to former cia chief john brennan about his clash with the president. and russia's revenge. why moscow now wants to grill former u.s. officials. this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now.