wrote an episode of "the americans." i thank them all for me here. that does it for our hour. i'm nicolle wallace. "mtp daily" starts right now with katy tur. >> hi, miss you in new york. come back soon, please. if it's wednesday, the president muddling on meddling just got messier. tonight, the laws of distraction. >> there's never been a president as tough on russia as i have been. >> why many republicans are defending the president's contradictions on russian meddling. >> well, he said he misspoke. plus, war of words. we'll talk to former cia chief john brennan about his clash with the president. and russia's revenge. why moscow now wants to grill former u.s. officials. this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now.

good evening, i'm katy tur in new york in for chuck todd. welcome to "mtp daily." here we are, another day and another attempt pby this white house to walk back something the president said about the intelligence community. how many different ways does president trump have to say it for everyone, including republicans in congress, to believe it? he does not accept the intelligence on russia. does he literally have to stand next to vladimir putin on monday and tell the world that he doesn't believe his own intelligence chiefs? >> my people came to me, dan coats came to me and some others. they said they think it's russia. i have president putin, he just said it's not russia. i will say this, i don't see any reason why it would be. >> does he have to respond to the crushing criticism about not

believing his intelligence chiefs on tuesday by reminding us that he doesn't really believe his intelligence chiefs when they say that russia, not other people, attacked our democracy? >> i accept our intelligence community's conclusion that russia's meddling in the 2016 election took place. could be other people also. there's a lot of people out there. >> does he have to say it again on wednesday? that he doesn't believe the intelligence that russia is targeting the u.s.? >> is russia still targeting the u.s., mr. president? >> thank you very much. no. >> this afternoon, the white house claimed that the president wasn't saying what you just heard him say when he looked the reporter who questioned him in the eye and said no. >> i had a chance to speak with

the president after those comments and the president was -- said thank you very much and was saying no to answering questions. the president and his administration are working very hard to make sure that russia is unable to meddle in our elections, as they have done in the past and as we have stated. >> and the fact that we're now wondering if the president believes what he seemingly said he believes, that russia isn't targeting the u.s., is an astounding development. because here is what his own director of national intelligence, his own dni, said two days ago. quote, we have been clear in our assessments of russian meddling in the 2016 election and their ongoing, pervasive efforts to undermine our democracy. and here is what he said literally two days before that. >> in regards to state actions, russia has been the most aggressive foreign actor. no question. they continue their efforts to undermine our democracy.

these actions are persistent, they're pervasive, and they are meant to undermine america's democracy on a daily basis. the warning signs are there. the system is blinking. >> on a daily basis, the system is blinking. and here is what the director of national intelligence, the cia director, and the nsa director all said when they testified before congress earlier this year. >> have you seen russian activity in the lead-up to the 2018 election cycle? >> yes, we have seen russian activity and intentions to have an impact on the next election cycle here. >> director coats? >> yes, we have. >> anyone else? admiral rogers? >> yes, and i think this would be a good topic to get into greater detail this afternoon. >> mike pompeo was the cia director when he said that. he is now the secretary of state. he sat right next to president trump today when the president

seemingly claimed russia was not targeting the u.s. nbc white house correspondent kristen welker joins us from the white house. here with me tonight's panel, nick confessore, reporter for "the new york times" and msnbc political analyst. elise jordan, former white house aide to george w. bush and msnbc political analyst. jonathan alter, msnbc political analyst. kristen, another day. more fire for this white house for what the president said. how can sarah sanders say with a straight face that we didn't hear what the president said we heard him say? >> we were frankly astounded, katy, and here are the reasons why. one, as you pointed out, if you look at the tape, the videotape and the audio, what we can see and hear with our own ears and eyes, you see the president respond to my colleague, cecilia vega's question, does he still think russia is a threat.

he says thank you, no. pretty direct lly as he looks a cecilia. we've all been in those cabinet meetings and shouted questions at the president in those more intimate settings, and typically if he doesn't want to answer questions, he says thank you, and that's the endi of it and h moves on. he said thank you, no, and then went on to answer another question. in that second part of the answer he said no one has been tougher on russia than he has been. so sarah's explanation that he didn't want to answer questions goes against what he did in that room which is he did go on to give another robust answer to another follow-up question. so we were quite surprised but that is what sarah sanders says the president told her. so it's hard to refute that. but the bottom line is, katy, the fact that there's been so much mixed messaging here and the fact that when it mattered, when plump was standing on the world stage next to president putin, he didn't say that he had confidence in his intelligence

community. he did break with the findings of his top intelligence officials, katy. >> do you buy what the white house is selling today, guys? >> katy, to paraphrase bill clinton, it all depends on what the meaning of the word "no" is and in this case no means no. we all know what he was doing. we've all watched it play out for the last two or three days. the president is at war not with the bureaucrats but with his own hand-picked advisers, and not over questions of policy and what the government should do, which is his purview, but over basic questions of fact. he personally does not want to accept these facts and that's what we're seeing. >> you know, this reminds me of the old story of the guy who's in bed with his mistress and his wife comes in and busts them and the guy says to his wife, who do you believe, me or your lying eyes? >> it's like shaggy, it wasn't me. >> the shamelessness of the

orwellian lying that is taking place, the erosion of standards of truth that are essential to our democracy and have been essential to our greatness as a country are the backdrop to all this. so it's not just about the intelligence mess, it's about a government which has lost all contact with the truth. >> if it wasn't so horrifying, it would be laughable. >> exactly. i think that the words, the exchanges, the statement to recant yesterday, it really doesn't matter all that much. what people saw was donald trump on monday with vladimir putin, and donald trump looked very weak. and that bothered his base. that bothered a lot of americans. and the criticism of it bothered donald trump at the end of the day. >> kristen, nothing happens in a vacuum. we've heard this president talk about the intelligence community, talk about their assessment now for years. and he has always said it could be other people. he said that again yesterday, it

could be other people. he doesn't like looking weak. the idea of them still meddling could potentially make him feel like he looks weak, if i try to psychoanalyze a man i've been following for three years, which is always a dangerous prospect. but talk to me about what we've been hearing from the president and why given what we've been hearing, the "no" fits in more neatly to the explanation that he doesn't believe it rather than the explanation that sarah huckabee sanders was trying to proffer. >> reporter: well, it speaks to this point, katy, of why did it take him more than a day to clarify his original comments in the first place. and that question was put to sarah sand today as well. why did it take him more than a day to say, look, i do stand with my intelligence community. was that really what he believes or was he responding to the barrage of criticism he was getting from democrats, republicans and people within his own administration. his vice president, his secretary of state saying to him in private conversations, look, you need to clarify these

comments. he looked at newt gingrich's tweets and realized that this was a big problem. so his walk-back came after all of that criticism and then, katy, he was on twitter this morning again defiant and digging in, essentially walking back his walk-back. so all of this mixed messaging. but the bottom line is to your point, we all heard what he said when he was on the world stage in helsinki. >> not to mention all that criticism he was getting from his besties over on fox news, especially in the morning. the white house communications team doesn't have a very good history, though, of being, i guess, accurate about how the president feels or what the president did. they said trump didn't fire james comey because of russia. trump said he fired james comey because of russia. they said trump did not dictate the trump tower statement for don junior. trump dictated the trump tower statement for don junior. hope hicks admitted during congressional testimony that she tells white lies for the president.

that is a communications director admitting to congress that she lies to the american public and to presumably congress on behalf of the president. >> and you wonder why sean spicer struggled so much and hasn't really landed a job as a spokesperson for a major fortune 500 company, because he left with no credibility. a lot of these individuals in the white house are choosing to squander their credibility and for what? for donald trump's lies? to be continually made a fool of when donald trump tells another lie that erases the first lie they have gone out of their way to defend? this has just become beyond what nicolle wallace once called it a goat rodeo. i think it's easier to conduct a goat rodeo any day than what's going on in this white house. >> it's not merely his own staff that he throws under the bus. the walk-back or the first walk-back was crafted for the benefit of hill republicans, to

give them an excuse to come out today and yesterday and say, look, i take the president at his word, as rob portman said, senator portman. >> or marco rubio. >> and he just immediately threw all of them under the bus and made them all look like fools today. >> don't worry, lindsey graham has a statement that says there's no bus for lindsey graham, don't worry. i've just been reassured unequivocally by the white house legislative team that the president's response to shouted questions was not intended to suggest that president trump doubts the intelligence community's assessment that russia is continuing to attack our critical infrastructure in the 2018 elections. i'm very pleased to hear this and stand ready to work with the administration to harden our electoral system against all foreign interference, including russia. >> that's because lindsey graham is trying to keep the government together to resist this russian threat and not score political points right now. the problem for trump is that this issue is not going away.

george will calls them helsinki republicans. and they are going to have a real problem with what is now becoming increasingly known as the helsinki humiliation. these issues, unlike a lot of the other issues that relate to donald trump, do not respond to his teflon. in other words, this is a vel cr cro not a teflon issue. >> donald trump just told jeff glor who does hold putin responsible for russian election meddling. >> so now we have the statement, the walk back, the walk back to the walk back and now the walk back to the walk back to the walk back. >> why would he not say that to putin's face standing next to him. >> or say this is a man who has taken pride in being willing to offend everybody, to not being politically correct. there's one man in the world he seems deeply worried about

offending and that is putin. >> the word donald trump always uses when he's talking about vladimir putin is friend. he talks about friendship and he talks about wanting to be maybe during miss universe when he's in moscow, maybe they'll become best friends. that's perhaps the problem. he's more concerned about the personal friendship. >> god knows what they said in private. >> that's the big question. there is talk about trying to get the interpreter in front of congress for her to tell them what was said. we'll see what happens with that. in the meantime or at least for a short second here, let's listen to the president with cbs. >> so you agree with u.s. intelligence that russia meddled in the election in 2016? >> yeah, and i've said that before, jeff. i have said that numerous times before. and i would say that that is true, yeah. >> but you haven't condemned putin specifically. do you hold him personally responsible? >> well, i would because he's in charge of the country, just like i consider myself to be responsible for things that happen in this country.

so certainly as the leader of a country, you would have to hold him responsible, yes. >> what did you say to him? >> very strong on the fact that we can't have meddling, we can't have any of that. i let him know we can't have this. we're not going to have it. and that's the way it's going to be. >> do you believe that? >> well, the reason that i don't believe that, first of all, you can't believe a single word that comes out of that man's mouth. but also remember at their joint appearance, they talked about renewing this idea of a cyber security unit, a joint u.s./russian cyber security unit where mueller's people would go over to russia and find out from them, you know, information and then in exchange for that, according to putin, we would cough up bill browder, who has been trying to hold russia accountable. he would immediately be killed. >> and michael mcfaul, the ambassador that's always on our air. >> browder, they want to literally kill him if they could, like they did his

partner, sergei magnitsky. so these are killers, they're thugs, and the president has been licking their boots. >> all right, guys, i'm going to hold it here for now. kristen welker, thank you very much. nick, elise and jonathan, stay with us. ahead, the president's performance in helsinki is raising accusations of treason from some leading political voices. one of them, former cia director john brennan. he joins me next. [music playing] across the country, we walk. carrying flowers that signify why we want to end alzheimer's disease. but what if, one day, there was a white flower for alzheimer's first survivor? what if there were millions of them? join us for the alzheimer's association walk to end alzheimer's. register today at alz.org/walk. and now for the rings. (♪)

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you know how painful heartburn can be. for fast-acting, long-lasting relief, try doctor recommended gaviscon. it quickly neutralizes stomach acid and helps keep acid down for hours. relieve heartburn with fast- acting, long-lasting gaviscon. welcome back. why won't president trump echo his country's own intelligence agencies and consistently and clearly say that russia interfered in the last election and is still interfering? and while the president avoids

criticizing vladimir putin, he did have harsh words for former cia director, john brenbrennan, called his putin press conference performance, quote, treasonous. >> well, i think brennan is a very bad guy. if you look at it, a lot of things happened under his watch. i think he's a very bad person. >> former cia director john brennan joins me now. director, thank you so much for being here. we appreciate it. >> sure, katy. >> do you want to respond to the president? >> well, you know when donald trump was elected president in november 2016, i was skeptical that he had the qualifications, the temperament or even the potential to be a strong president. i was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. soon after the election he started to denigrate the intelligence and law enforcement profession as well as professionals as well as their work. and then over the past year and a half, i think he has demonstrated time and time again that he lies to the american people and that he is not fulfilling the responsibilities of the office of the presidency

in terms of keeping this country strong and safe. i was hoping he was going to bring this country together after a very contentious election. and so i have been outspoken. i have taken to the twitter sphere. some of my tweets i will acknowledge are rather shrill, if not strident. maybe i'm just an intelligence officer and i'm trying to ring the bell, because i see all the warning signs here, especially when it comes to national security. i worked in national security in the government for close to 35 years. on issues related to iran and north korea and proliferation and russia. and when i see the types of things that mr. trump is doing, yes, i will speak out. i'm hoping to be able to shake some -- quite frankly some sense into the people around mr. trump and those on the hill, because the more that they tolerate and make excuses for his behavior and his performance, the more they're enabling him. the more they're encouraging him to do these types of things. i don't know whether or not he can change his ways or not. i don't know if my tweets are making any difference whatsoever. but i feel it's my personal obls

and i'm going to stay true to my principles. the fact that mr. trump calls me a bad person, well, i need to be able to speak openly and enclosurely about the concerns that i see in terms of the future security and safety of this country. >> you say you can see the threats coming. is the president of the united states himself a threat? >> well, i think the way he has behaved and the way he has acted, again, this two-hour one-on-one with mr. putin. >> but you know more than i know. you know more than any of us know. we know what we've seen in public. you know what happened during the 2016 election. >> i know what the russians did, absolutely, and i had good insight into it. i know how capable and sophisticated and cunning the russians are as well as how clever mr. putin is as a trained kgb officer. and two hours with donald trump, i have real questions about that. why did he not trust john bolton and mike pompeo and john kelly to be in that meeting when he

was there with his translator. was that translator excused? did he pass written notes to mr. putin and to the russian translator so that our translator would not see it? i don't know. but there's something that is very, very puzzling about this. i am concerned because i know how manipulative the russians are and mr. putin is. and as the special counsel's investigation continues to go forward, we are going to find out the facts, as bob mueller uncovers them, about whether or not there were individuals that were very close to mr. trump and in the campaign who were actively abetting and aiding the russian efforts to interfere in that election. >> why did july 27th, 2016, that press conference where he asked russia to hack into hillary clinton's e-mails, why did that raise so many red flags? >> because it was basically overt collusion, encouraging the russians to try to find her e-mails. and so we see, you know, collusion in plain sight.

now the question is were there things going on behind the scenes that may have in fact helped mr. trump get elected? he was elected. i know he -- whenever he sees this issue, he's concerned that this is undermining the legitimacy of his election and so he keeps going back to this issue, there was no collusion, no collusion. well, we need to get to the bottom of what the russians did and who they did it with. i have great confidence in bob mueller and going forward. >> do you think that he's concerned about it undermining the legitimacy of his own election because he knows that what happened helped him? he knows that the wikileaks leaks helped him? that he might know more than that? >> i think it's quite clear that the russian active measures and what they were doing was influential and changed at least one vote. did it change one vote or a million votes? you never can know the answer to that question. so whether or not it was the russian assistance that might have gotten mr. trump over the finish line is unknown.

we shouldn't go there. what we should do is try to understand exactly who was doing what during that election and hold them to account. hold the russians to account and hold any american persons, u.s. persons to account for actively working with the russians. >> what happened within the cia when donald trump said that at that july 27th press conference? >> well, i think a lot of us were very, very concerned about what he was doing, encouraging the russians. now as we know coming out of the indictments that rod rosenstein announced the other day, that very day, that very night the russians were going and looking for e-mails and other things. so having a candidate for the presidency of the united states openly encourage the russians to do this i think was just an abomination and it's something that i find unconscionable. >> there was a joint press statement that came out on october 7th, you were part of that, that said that russia was trying to meddle in the election. did you know then or were you suspicious then that donald

trump or somebody on his team may have been working to time the release of those e-mails? >> we were concerned that the russians were going to take advantage of whatever types of contacts or intermediaries they had in order to further their aims. and so, again, i will defer to bob mueller and the fbi and those that have to investigate any type of u.s. person collusion or cooperation. again, witting or unwitting. during that september, october, november time frame, we were trying to understand the scope and scale of what the russians were doing. we were trying to understand exactly what they might in fact throw into this election discussion. but also be able to make sure that we were able to not just understand it, but also keep president obama informed as well as the congressional leadership informed. >> were you suspicious or concerned that there may have been collusion or coordination going on between the trump

campaign or donald trump and the russians after that july 27th press conference? >> i was very concerned that the russians were going to continue what they have done for many, many years, which was to use their presence in the united states and their contacts with american persons to be able to advance their objectives. >> that's not a no. >> that is not a no. that is not a no. i am concerned about, again, whether or not someone was an unwitting part of this master plan on the part of the russians or whether the people were actively working with the russians. i don't know. i'm not going to speculate on that. i just know that the russians take full advantage of the freedoms and liberties of this great country in order to ply their intelligence trade. >> what do you think those in the cia and in the intelligence community are thinking now, a year and a half into donald trump's presidency, and after we've seen him openly deny the assessment that they have made over and over and over again, after they saw him stand next to

vladimir putin and praise vladimir putin while attacking his own doj and his own fbi and passing off conspiracy theories about the dnc server? >> i think many of them are shocked and appalled and just continue to scratch their heads over why a person who is the president of the united states is doing this. but at the same time i have confidence that the women and men of cia and fbi and nsa are going to do their absolute best, irrespective of the person in the oval office, to try to keep this country strong. >> one last question. what do you think of sarah huckabee sanders today coming out and saying that the president is having conversations about allowing russians to question ambassador michael mcfaul and bill browder? >> i think it's the height of absurdity to say that we're going to allow russian officials to question former american u.s. officials on this matter. this is just continued efforts on the part of the russians, mr. putin and others, to try to have distractions and, unfortunately, i think mr. trump falls prey to

them. >> director jim brennan. >> john brennan. >> i'm so sorry. i'm really sick. cold medicine. john entreprenebrennan, i'm so . i know that. we do appreciate it. and ahead, the president keeps splitting with the intel community on russian meddling. is the gop still buying what he's selling? until her laptop crashed this morning. her salon was booked for weeks, having it problems? ask a business advisor how to get on demand tech support for as little as $15 a month.

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welcome back. president trump is once again questioning the core principles of the post world war ii global order. take a listen. >> membership in nato obligates the members to defend any other member that's attacked. let's say montenegro is attacked. why should my son go to montenegro to defend it from attack? >> i understand what you're saying, i've asked the same question. montenegro is a tiny country with very strong people. >> or albania. >> they're very strong people. they have very aggressive people. they may get aggressive and, congratulations, you're in world war iii. now, i understand that, but that's the way it was set up. >> yes. montenegro, which only joined nato last year. this is montenegro right here, a country that is smaller than connecticut with a population the size of baltimore. the answer to why the u.s. would defend montenegro if they're attacked is, of course, article

5 of the treaty established in nato. article 5 states that an attack on one member country is an attack on all. it was intended to be a deterrent to soviet aggression. the soviet threat is gone, but tensions with russia are not. 14 people are currently on trial in montenegro accused of plotting to kill the prime minister and stage a coup to bring a pro-russian party to power. which is why the president's latest comments are drawing criticism from folks like senator john mccain, who tweeted by attacking montenegro and questioning our obligations under nato, the president is playing right into putin's hands. and honestly, if history is in iguide, montenegro isn't usually the one doing the pushing. yeah, remember this from last year. the nato meeting. that's the leader of montenegro right there getting shoved aside by president trump. we'll be right back.

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welcome back. if president trump says jump, do republican lawmakers say how high? an if president trump says he misspoke about russian election interference while standing next to russian president vladimir putin, do republican lawmakers take him at his word? here is some of what we've heard so far from capitol hill. >> oh, i think it's a big step forward when anybody in public life or anybody in private life admits they made a mistake. it's good to confess it and say you're sorry. >> well, he said he misspoke. i know that's something that human beings do occasionally. >> i think, you know, people understand that it was a painful experience for him. just for what it's worth, look, i'm glad. >> i'm just glad he clarified it. i can't read his intentions or what he meant to say at the time. suffice it to say that for me as a policy maker, what really matters is what we do moving

forward. >> let's bring in msnbc's garrett haake on capitol hill. he's been talking to lawmakers all day. garrett, what are they saying about this latest denial from the white house? >> katy, you look back at those interviews, they were conducted throughout the course of the day as the white house story seemed to weave back and forth about how much the president was willing to say whether he did or did not believe with russian interference. you can see how much the bar has been lowered here. folks who were willing to accept the president was willing to make this one small grammatical change from would to would not, see, that's what he meant, can we move on. that sentiment was universal throughout the course of the day. this is not something republicans want to be talking about. they want to be focused on their economic agenda and other things particularly ahead of the midterms. but you did see this degree of frustration and, frankly, especially from some of these senators who are not running for re-election, disbelief at the

white house's attempt at gas lighting about what the president said or meant. here was jeff flake late this afternoon. >> i saw it. it sure looked like he was say no and it took him a while to respond back. the problem is, that's consistent with what he's been saying, you know, again and again and again, that he mistrusts our intelligence services and believes the word of putin. >> reporter: katy, that's flake on the specific question of whether or not the president believes russia is still meddling. he mouthed no, heard around the world from earlier today. flake says he sort of believes the president on the no, not on the walk-back later by sarah sanders. but his broader point is the same. republicans have gotten used to the idea that the president is going to hold these beliefs, no matter how hard they shake him and say this is a real problem, and it continues to be an issue, which is something we heard from even folks like lindsey graham, who allies with the president

pretty closely, except on this issue. >> jeff flake basically said nothing happens in a vacuum. what he said today is consistent with what he has been saying, no, i don't believe the intelligence assessment that the russians are still trying to meddle. so yesterday when he changed from would to would not, do republicans -- did they hear the rest of the news conference or were they just looking at anything whatsoever that they could use in order to say, oh, no, no, he didn't mean that. were they looking for any excuse to not break further with the president? >> oh, they heard it, katy. i think by and large your second point is mostly the case. again, republicans -- with the president with an approval rating somewhere around 90% with republican voters, they just don't see a lot of upside to make a big public break with the president. what you saw was sort of criticism of what the president had said, a sense of disappointment coming from republicans, and then turning -- sort of throwing their punches at vladimir putin instead, saying you know what, we should

do more to push back against russia. we should do more to protect our electoral system. we should do more to sanction russia and the oligarchs close to putin. they cannot hit the president, so they will hit russia where the president has chosen not to. i think that's been the consensus view of republicans here on capitol hill who want to show this is not what they believe, but they don't want to mix it up with the president and his 90% approval rating among republicans and his twitter account. they want this fight to be about russia and then they want to move on. >> is it all about what's going happen this fall for the midterms and that's when they will decide whether to break further and actually speak their mind? >> it's hard to say, katy. midterms are fascinating because they play into this two ways, especially in the house where every single member is up for re-election in november. the idea of russian meddling is not an academic exercise or something that's theoretical, it's something that could affect their races and their ability to continue to do their jobs. the second part of this is after

the midterms, imagine what a democratic controlled house can do in terms of investigating this trump/putin meeting further. republicans are talking about the possibility of do they subpoena the translator. how they would go after president trump or this information without angering president trump. a democratic controlled house would not feel the same reticence to go after the president more aggressively, so yes, across the board these things are all related to the midterms. >> garrett haake, garrett, thank you very much. >> you bet. ahead, he's a familiar face to regular viewers on "meet the press" and "mtp daily." now vladimir putin says he wants to question former u.s. ambassador to russia, michael mcfaul, and the white house isn't ruling it out.

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(upbeat dance music) (upbeat dance music) (bell ringing) welcome back. today "meet the midterms," amid all the questions and confusion about whether president trump believes the u.s. intelligence community's assessment that russia interfered in the 2016 election, a majority of americans, 59%, said they aren't confident the government is doing enough to prevent foreign countries from influencing future u.s. elections. only 37% say the government is doing enough. but democrats are a lot more worried than republicans, not

surprisingly. 85% of democrats are not confident the government is doing enough to prevent election interference compared to just 35% of republicans. and 64% of republicans feel confident while just 15% of democrats say they feel the same. this is all while the number of people who think cyber attacks pose the greatest immediate threat to this country has gone up. 45% say that now compared to 31% back in october. and we should note this poll was done right before president trump's one-on-one meeting with vladimir putin. we'll be right back with more "mtp daily" right after this. ea? well, it means i can trade after the market closes. it's true. so all... evening long. ooh, so close. yes, but also all... night through its entirety. come on, all... the time from sunset to sunrise. right. but you can trade... from, from... from darkness to light.

♪ you're not gonna say it are you?

time now for "the lid." the panel is back. guys, welcome. sarah huckabee sanders today didn't rule out that the president would allow russia to

question two american citizens. this is in response to a question from maggie haberman. we saw the other day vladimir putin said he would exchange his investigators for our investigators, allowing mueller to go to russia to talk to those 13 russians if he could talk to some folks that he wants to talk to, that includes michael mcfaul and bill browder. take a look at sarah's response to maggie's question. >> russian authorities yesterday named several americans they want to question who they claim was involved in bill browder's, quote unquote, crimes in their terms, including former ambassador to russia, michael mcfaul. does president trump support that idea? is he open to having u.s. officials questioned by rubssia? >> the president will meet with his team and we'll let you know when we have an announcement on that. >> give us some background on brouder. >> he renounced his american citizenship for tax purposes but he's the one who has led this

impressive worldwide campaign to get the sanctions on so many high-ranking russian officials following the death of his lawyer in a prison at the behest of vladimir putin. so putin especially hates bill browder more than anyone else. and one comparison i heard else. one comparison i heard is that bill browder is his hillary clinton. donald trump is ranting about hillary clinton in his press conference in helsinki, he's talking about bill browder. and so sarah huckabee sanders, her answer, i don't know if it's ignorance or actually bad intention, and the trump administration is actually considering letting in the case of michael mcfall, a former u.s. ambassador to russia, be taken and interrogated by russian authorities. >> can we call it ignorance? listen to what the state department said in response to that same question. >> the overall assertions that have come out of the russian government are absolutely absurd. the fact that they want to question 11 american citizens and the assertions that the russian government is making

about those american citizens we do not stand by those assertions that the russian government makes. >> is it ignorance when you have the state department very clearly saying what most other american administrations, white houses would say? >> i'm not sure if the white house press secretary is trying to avoid getting ahead of her boss and doesn't know the answer, or does know the answer. what i do know is that the answer should be very obvious to everybody, that that would traditionally be completely off the table for any other president, any other white house as the state spokeswoman just said. it's beggar's belief. on the other hand, if the president is going to entertain the idea of letting the russian intelligence services examine the evidence and sources and methods that we use, i guess anything's on the table. >> it also could be retaliation for us arresting a russian woman and gun rights activist the other day. there's a lot of tit for tat in this. but just to talk about bill

browder for a second, this is something that's really important for people following this to understand. i want to take you back, you've been there, to the june 2016 meeting, the key meeting in trump tower, the russians come -- >> the don jr. meeting. >> so when on air force one president trump is arguably obstructing justice by making up a story about what the meeting was about, so it wasn't about getting dirt on hillary, what did he use? he used adoption. >> the magnitsky act. >> if they were talking about adoption, they were colluding and conspiring by talking about adoption. because suspending american adoptions of russian children was vladimir putin's retaliation for the magnitsky act. what they told trump's people that day in trump tower, as far

as we can tell, is if you lift sanctions on russia, if you get rid of this magnitsky act, which was done by bill browder, everything will be great in our relationship. your families will again be able to adopt russian children and we will be friends. in exchange for that, we will give you all this dirt on hillary clinton. that was the deal. that was the collusion. and that's what should, if there's some justice, if they can get the facts, send a lot of people to jail. >> but you're speculating on some of that. >> oh, it's a lot of speculation. obviously we don't know -- >> know exactly what was said. >> but this is the outlines, you know as those of us following the mueller investigation, not -- >> well, we do know -- >> what we know, we know that that letter was using adoption as a cover story. if they were discussing adoption, they were discussing the magnitsky act. and if they were discussing the magnitsky act, we were conspiring one another.

>> they did offer dirt to get inside that meeting. there is a link if you were to speculate. is this another example of this white house not standing up for americans in the face of a leader that the president has a crush on? >> well, i think we should also discuss ambassador michael mccall a bit, and why vladimir putin hates him so much. while ambassador mcfall was the ambassador in moscow, he was very up front that he was supporting democracy activists in moscow. and so vladimir putin was very personally threatened by him, and this continues today. >> he's on investigation all the time talking very frankly and bluntly about putin. >> exactly. there's nothing more than vladimir putin would love than to have his intelligence service, to have his law enforcement apparatus questioning ambassador mcfall. it's chilling to think that an american diplomat, someone who served the interests of our country, that took a vow, that

served abroad with honor that the u.s. president would even consider doing this. >> it just reminded me of that -- the attempts by michael flynn, the plan that he had to smuggle out the american citizen back to turkey, the cleric that's hated so much. guys, thank you so much, we appreciate it, john thnathan, n elise. ahead, the british baby invasion. alright guys let's go!

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in case you missed it, the trump baby balloon will be coming to america. it was aloft as thousands protested trump's visit. now activists are planning to bring it over from the uk and fly it above the trump national golf club in bedminster, new jersey. a gofundme page was set up to raise $4,500 to bring the blimp to the states. it has raised five times that amount, $23,000 and counting. but be warned, people, when it comes to oversized balloons, you never really know. it might not turn out so great. don't say we didn't warn you. how are they going to get it

here, you ask? maybe the balloon could fly itself to new jersey. i don't know, just floating the idea. that's surely all for tonight. "the beat" with ar lee melber starts right now. good evening, ari. >> now, katy, you covered donald trump as a candidate, you covered his presidency. you know he does not appreciate being referred to in any way as a baby. >> listen, i'm just reporting the news. >> as do i. but that's documented. i mean, you were around those players. he famously told -- >> he called marco rubio a baby a lot. >> i'm not saying that he can't handle what he gives out. i'm just saying he addressed paul manafort and said, do you think i'm a baby, you talk to me like a baby through the tv, which i always thought was odd because babies don't watch a lot of tv news. >> i've got to go rest my voice. so i'm just going to take my -- you're right. he doesn't like it. he doesn't like it. >> and i'm going