i really don't know. >> these baseless charges provides inappropriate legitimacy to accusations with zero evidence. >> that was sarah sanders yesterday accusing longtime public servants, get this, of exploiting their security clearances to criticize the president and make money. it's another hair on fire headline that generates clicks and has donald trump and his white house trying to pull attention away from the fact that america's commander in chief has significant exposure in the mueller probe and also a way from the flailing foreign policy. like the birther conspiracy bri i -- before it, another dull idea wrapped in camouflage. we thought it's a public service to all of you who might have been distracted by the shiny penny they threw out on the streets that we be clear what the leading headline is, should

be and what it will be. person president pawned for putin. promotes soviet strategy on nato, because that's exactly what's going on. good morning. and welcome to "morning joe." it's tuesday, july 24th. mika has the morning off but along with willie and me we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. president of the council on foreign relations and author of "a world in disarray" richard haass. nbc news political reporter heidi przybyla and columnist and associate editor for the "washington post" david ignatius, and the co-founder and ceo of axios, jim vandehei. you know, willie, there are so many ways that donald trump and his team always try to distract, but there can be no mistake about what this week's, this month's, this year's most shocking headline really is politically and that is that

donald trump went to helsinki and he adapted, he adopted -- and don't believe your public servants on "morning joe." listen to commentators on russian state television and they will say that donald trump has adopted the soviet union's position on nato. and that he's -- what he did in helsinki was nothing short of disregard u.s. national intelligence, and also drive a wedge between our allies in europe that, well, helped us win a cold war. >> well, helsinki was a disaster and the white house knows. the week that followed helsinki a disaster, white house knows it. the president of the united states forced to say yes i agree with the intelligence communities assessment, yes, russia meddled and erasing that going back to a tweet saying the russian investigation was a hoax.

we know how he truly feels and putting out another shiny object. talking about way taking away the security clearances of former security heads. there are questions of monetizing which is preposter s preposterous, fair to say, talking about monetizing security clearances, but i think the other thing to throw in the mix, too, joe, is as you did, this idea that the white house and the president is offended by "baseless accusations" when donald trump, of course, was the ringleader of the birther movement beginning about six, seven years ago. >> yeah. and mon tidesing public service. mike barnicle, you can talk about the trump hotel. you can talk about all of the foreign countries and everybody else that are trying to curry favor with donald trump by making money, by handing him money. you can talk about how -- i

mean, we'll go to the list soon, but every time that there's a moment between china and the united states, it seems that ivanka gets three or more clearances for patents for her products in china. i mean, this is -- you could write a book on this and i'm sure somebody is writing a book on this, on how much donald trump is monetizing the presidency and how much his entire family is monetizing the presidency and most importantly, how much the corrupt republican party in washington, d.c. is helping them monetize the presidency. >> yeah, joe. this is the first white house in the histories of this republic largely filled with grifters. people grabbing what they can while they can grab it, but the largest story, the one that you raised at the top of the program, the removal, a threatened removal of security clearances from people like michael hayden, and john brennan

and others is so small, so petty and so predictable, and it is the behavior of a man, mr. trump, who knows that the cops are at the door, and he continues -- he continues -- and he did it within the past few days, to stick his thumb in the eye of the american intelligence community preferring to go with the russian theory rather than with what the american intelligence community has told him and warned him repeatedly. >> you mow, willie, these headlines are ripped straight from the fages, as they would say, fox news. certain hosts on fox news that when there is damning news about donald trump, something that should really concern americans now, they'll do hillary clinton e-mail stories. and, of course, were we joking about this six months in. we're now 18 months in. they're still doing it. this whole smoke screen yesterday about taking security

clearances away from -- from former cia directors and other intel giants. i mean, that came off of a fox news segment with rand paul who then, again, as we said yesterday morning, shamelessly says he was going to go over to the white house and what was he going to talk about? not about vladimir putin influencing u.s. policy, not about helsinki or the destruction of our 55, 60-year alliance with nato. instead, rand paul said that he was going over to the white house to try to strip john brennan and others of their security clearance. again, smoke screen, distract, try to get people's attention off of what's right in front of them and i really -- i'm quite confident that there aren't that many people out there that are still so stupid as to not know

that they're being manipulated. >> we'll talk about why some of these people have security clearances after they've left their positions in the administration in a moment, but let's get into one of these real stories, joe. iran is reacting to president trump's twitter threat of total destruction of their country taking to the same media platform, javad zarif tweeted this -- color us unimpressed. he tweets, be cautious. and yesterday president trump stood by his tweeted threat. >> mr. president -- with javad? >> not at all. >> this president put iran on notice and as he made clear last

night, we will no longer tolerate iran sowing terror across the world. >> the president's responding to iran and he's not going to allow them to continue to make threats against america. if anybody is inciting anything, look no further than to iran. >> what would it take to have direct negotiations between the president and president zarif that is a determination the president would make. >> when the president pulled out of the jcpoa he did not reveal an alternate plan to address v. he planned to get them back to the table. is that still his plan b.? >> as we have said, our goal, make sure iran doesn't get a

nuclear weapon. when we have specifics we'll let you know. >> doesn't president trump plan to move u.s. carriers to the -- >> i don't have specific announcements on that at this point. >> richard haass with the council on foreign relations. yesterday was iran's lucky day. they look back in history, as they mentioned, donald trump threatened north korea, then donald trump gave north korea everything they wanted. donald trump made his secretary of state fly half way around the world to try to resolve the dispute with kim jong-un. clean things up in the press, and kim jong-un basically spit in our general direction and went out picking potatoes with potato farmers. so the iranians must be, like, getting the brinks trucks ready to back them up and get money from donald trump, because whenever he starts talking like this, he's the sucker in the end. what should the rest of the world think of donald trump's opening round of bluster which

always ends in weakness and groveling on his part? >> well, joe i don't think it's thought through, because we don't have much of an iran policy other than economic pressure. we're not willing to counter them around the region, be it syria or anywhere else. the short run, it's actually good for the regime. the currency is plummeting, didn't get the benefits they wanted from the nuclear agreement, but this strengthens them for rouhani, for the foreign minister. this makes them look tough. people are rallying around them. it's actually strengthening the regime -- >> hold on, richard. what you're saying is that another rogue regime is strengthened by donald trump's bluster and missteps? i mean, the north koreans have been waiting for what they got this past week for 45 years.

and now you're saying the iranians were on the ropes. donald trump attacking the iranians with bluster again just strengthens them at home? >> i think it does. hurting them economically, helping them politically. a real disconnect. secretary of state gives a speech and sunday calling for regime change in iran. the leadership corrupt. cites chapter and verse. suddenly the administration is discovered the value of human rights and democracy, at least in one country which is iran. so that's a real shot across their bow and then the president is tweeting in a manner that again makes it, i think, much more difficult for the opposition in iran to attack their government lest they look like they're doing the work of america. a real disconnect between what the secretary of state is doing and what the president is tweeting. >> and david ignatius, of course, the president being, going on twitter and, you know,

just being bellicose and blustery with his words, again, has a negative impact for u.s. interests in iran, because it strengthens that regime, makes them look tough standing up against the united states, but in europe, more -- more heads shaking. more questions raised. more reasons to believe that they have got to find their own way forward without the united states. >> well, i think there is a real u.s.-europe split coming as the u.s. begins to impose unilateral sanctions august 4 and another round coming november 4. i think, joe, we're looking at the north korea playbook as you suggested initially. this is "fire and fury 2." we have very belligerent rhetoric, there's no way to read the president's all-caps tweet other than as a reference to possible use of nuclear weapons

against iran. on what grounds is not made clear in the tweet. as with north korea. there's a hope that the u.s. is going to have a key regional partner with north korea. it was china. i think the administration increasingly feels after helsinki, maybe we can work with russia to try to squeeze iran both at home and in syria, and then there's this idea that crippling economic sanctions will weaken the regime so much that it will be pliable and then we'll be ready to come to the negotiating table, as north korea did, or maybe we'll veer towards some kind of regime change. i think the problem with this policy is that it's long on rhetoric speech by pompeo, tweets by trump, and very short on on the ground systematic planning. if there's one thing we need learn in this part of the world is do not start a fight that you

do not know how you're going to finish. we're seeing a classic example of that right now. >> just like, again, with north korea. we started a fight on twitter, and obviously, a lot of pressing issues when donald trump became president of the united states, but it ended in a summit, and right now there seems to be very little follow-up to it, and just the president of the united states and the secretary of state being embarrassed on the world stage. hey, willie, let's take a sharp tomorrow domestic politics a second. i saw a poll out last night from nbc news that certainly casts, well, just reflects, on the debate that's coming up on kavanaugh. when he goes before the -- before the united states senate. roe v. wade. this nbc poll, had support for roe v. wade at 71%. a majority of republicans now

even say they don't believe that roe v. wade should be overturned. should roe be overturned? no. 71%. yes. 23%. willie, i know that that's been the dream of conservatives for years, to get five judges on the court that will overturn roe v. wade, but that's a 45-year precedent. that's a 71% approval number, and it's going to be a heavy, heavy lift for any judge going under the court, and a heavy lift for anybody that wants to go into the court with those sort of numbers. >> you mentioned inside the numbers. republicans, among republicans, 52% support the supreme court ruling in roe v. wade. 76% independent and 88% you might expect under democrats. heidi, as you look at the whip count traveling around dlocapit

hill and who will vote for kavanaugh and who wouldn't, wiggle votes, susan collins, a couple of others, is this in peril for president trump? any chance kavanaugh is not seated here? >> we've been looking to susan collins and lisa murkowski and known the answer to that at least a week or two ago expected them to come out in stronger opposition to whoever the candidate is going to be to signal that this may be in peril. the one vote that chug lactualls in question is rand paul based on privacy concerns but i don't think that in the end will pose any danger. i think he is trying to draw attention to what has been a longstanding issue. i do think roe will be a huge issue during the confirmation hearing. i don't expect kavanaugh to answer the question, but we can go ahead and look at his previous writings about kind of

executive power. we can look at his previous writings about referring to abortion, and a recent case he ruled on as quote/unquote abortion on demand which is the language used by a lot of the anti-abortion crowd, but i think at the end of the day, willie, a lot of democrats know that the real risk to roe is not necessarily a direct overturning of roe but it is the upholding of the flurry of restrictions that are being passed at the state level, which would essentially, if allowed to stay in place, render roe irrelevant in a lot of states. so you could just see big disparities in terms of state-level access to abortion. >> yeah. and you know, when we look at the senators who may or may not support kavanaugh, jim vandehei, let's just not even put rand paul on this list. he does this every time. i'm going to vote against that.

i'm going to vote against this. and always ends up supporting donald trump blindly. he's going to vote for kavanaugh. it's a joke for him -- any reporter that thinks he's not seriously should look into another profession. he's going to vote for kavanaugh. the question, though, is, jim, you've got two republicans and two democrats who are still trying to figure this thing out. of course, we've talked about lisa murkowski and susan collins but also heidi heitkamp and joe manchin. you get a feeling they will as a block one way or the other. all either vote against kavanaugh or for kavanaugh and provide each other a little cover. >> yeah. if you listen to what they had to say and their pasts, much more likely they vote for him than against him. more likely that he picks up democratic votes than he loses republican votes.

and, again, once you get into the hearings on this and he's getting grilled, he obviously knows the abortion question is coming and obviously knows how to hand that in a public setting. i don't think they'll be enough out there to convince republicans even moderate republicans to turn against him and you have these democrats sitting in these states, not just the two you mentioned. you have basically ten seats occupied by democrats. look at trump's numbers in the states, they're basically what they were on election day. he emains relatively pop la in those states, and an asset in those states. a lot of pressure to put on those members and they have to have a real justification going against someone they think is a real person for the court. >> and also talk about susan

collins in maine, and you now have the question whether obamacare is, if reviewed again, would be deemed constitutional? now they've stripped away that tax that john roberts -- what john roberts called a tax. so the issue of pre-existing conditions suddenly comes up. for a guy lie jke joe manchin. hard for joe manchin to vote for a judge to rule roe v. wade -- not roe v. wade, rule obamacare unconstitutional. a lot of issues affect a lot of voters that this fifth vote is going to determine, a lot more than just abortion. >> yeah. i mean, this story has a couple different tracks to it, joe. heidi accurately pointed out, what's going on in various state legislators around the country will do more to diminish access and make it more difficult to get access to a woman's health than anything that happens in the next few months with the

hearings. the other aspect, the other track that is really interesting is, look, to be realistic about it. to just follow the barometer that is going on in washington right now. judge kavanaugh is going to be confirmed. he is going to sit on the supreme court, which raises the larger question -- what are the democrats going to do in pursuit of rewinning the house, winning the house in 2018, and winning the presidency in 2020? where are they going? what direction is the democratic party headed in? >> hey, jim before we send you off on your day what are you looking at looking at the verizon of axios? >> bad news for trump, putting aside the tweet stuff, the house is looking worse. handicapping races, study districts putting way more republican seats in play. now you have the ingredients it would take to have a wave that

would put democrats in control. 60-plus seats in play, almost all republican. you have democrats outraising republicans in many of the seats which should never happen when republicans are the party in power and you have democrats showing in race after race sthe have record turnout. in terms of things democrats can be hopeful about, the house is looking better and better. the senate, still difficult as can be for democrats. >> jim, thanks so much. and still ahead on "morning joe," back to the administration's accusations against former servants. we'll compare how that contrasts with money makers from current white house officials. from ivanka trump's clothing line to jared kushner's family business. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. thank you clients?

well jd power did just rank them highest in investor satisfaction with full service brokerage firms...again. and online equity trades are only $4.95... i mean you can't have low cost and be full service. it's impossible. it's like having your cake and eating it too. ask your broker if they offer award-winning full service and low costs. how am i going to explain this? if you don't like their answer, ask again at schwab. schwab, a modern approach to wealth management.

happy anniversary dinner, darlin'. can this much love be cleaned by a little bit of dawn ultra? oh yeah one bottle has the grease cleaning power of three bottles of this other liquid. a drop of dawn and grease is gone.

man: we hold these truths to be self-evident. woman: that all of us are created equal. woman: until we became one nation under trump. man: these truths are self-evident. woman: brett kavanaugh on the supreme court endangers protections for people with pre-existing health conditions. woman: puts a woman's right to choose gravely at risk. man: and threatens to continue selling out america to powerful corporate interests. woman: we hold these truths to be self-evident. man: and we will hold our senators accountable. end citizens united is responsible for the content of this advertising. so let's promote our summer travel deal on choicehotels.com like this. surfs up. earn a $50 gift card when you stay just twice this summer. or, badda book. badda boom. book now at choicehotels.com

not only is the president looking to take away brennan's security clearance he's also looking into the clearances of comey, clapper, hayden, rice and mccabe. the president is exploring the mechanisms to remove security clearance because they've politicized and in some cases monetized their public service and security clearances making baseless accusations of improper contact with russia, influenced by russia against the president is extremely inappropriate and the fact people with security clearances are making baseless charges provides inappropriate legitimacy with accusations with zero evidence. >> yeah. they're also looking to take away the security clearances of dean rusk and millard fillmore. the white house announcing yesterday that president trump is considering taking away the security clearances of several former intelligence officials. you just heard sarah sanders emphasizing those officials

having -- it's hard to say this with a straight face -- "monetizing their public service and security clearances." now it's true and it has been true that the private sector does reward high-level officials for their expertise and access after years of service. but as we said, the key word is "after" years of service. unlike this president and members of his administration who are doing it now. so let's go through the list. shall we? so just this week the united states paid donald trump's scotland golf course $77,000 to stay for a weekend. that's -- more than a lot of teachers make in an entire year. the secret service paid at least $63,000 to trump's mar-a-lago club in the span of a few moss last year, and that is the same club that has doubled its initiation fee and they did that

right after donald trump got elected president. and that was where patrons could hear trump discussing foreign policy just -- chattering on the patio about it, and the "usa today" found dozens of lobbyists, contractors and others who make their living influencing the government. two-thirds of them playing on one of the days that donald trump was there, and in case you forgot whose course it was, the trump organization, which means donald trump, ordered golf tee markers bearing the presidential seal. an investigation by pro public found at least $16 million was spent at the trump organization, managed properties by the campaign, and government agencies since he announced his candidacy. the vast majority of the money more than $13 million put into the president's pocket by the trump presidential campaign.

and politico found by september of 2016 a trump-owned airline and properties received more than a million and a half dollars from the secret service. then there's the web of foreign deals from which the president continues to benefit. and the blatant buck raking of a white house counselor on the lawn saying, "go buy ivanka's stuff." now, speaking of ivanka, the first daughter and presidential adviser got rare chinese trademarks approved on the night she was to have dinner with china's president. wow. now that's serendipity. jared kushner's family business got loans after his white house meetings with financial exec.tives and the two presidential advisors earned $82 million in outside income last year and then, of course, there is commerce secretary wilbert ross who continues on in his

role after admitting to holding on to stocks that he told the office of government ethics that he had divested from including companies linked to russia and china and carl icon resigned after an article he pushed to change a rule way negative impact on his energy investments. and, of course, the list could go on and on and on, and, willie, again, we know it's a distraction from the fact that donald trump acted like putin's dupe when in helsinki. that donald trump actually disregarded 50, 60 years of u.s. foreign policy and adopted basically what the old kgb's line was in the soviet union. we know it's all for a distraction, but you think they could do a better job than throwing something out there that only turns the attention back to just how this is the most corrupt administration in modern history.

>> joe, i would add to the list just yesterday the trump organization announced a new $196 million investment in one of its golf clubs in scotland north of aberdeen. eric trump who runs the organization now said the time is right for us. perhaps because the president of the united states is, sits where he sits and it's good for business. richard haass, all that hypocrisy joe laid out is there and good to remind people of all that. back to the claim initially made by sarah sanders yesterday that john brennan, that people like james comey, michael hayden are "monetizing their access to clearance." first, why do former officials like that still have clearance and are they monetizing that clearance? >> usually former officials keep their clearances. it's a part of an act of courtesy. even more if you're in government it is smart every now and then to check in with predecessors. they've sat in those chairs, dealt with the policies. in a normal administration, you meet with vladimir putin, you might call in the national

security figures who sat in on meetings with vladimir putin. okay. what did you learn from the interaction in that meeting or deal with this issue on ukraine? you want them to keep clearances so you basically have the ability to consult. the idea that people go ot and give speeches for money or consult and -- that's one thing. that's based upon their name and all the years of government service, but the idea they're out there talking about secrets, just the opposite. you're actually extraordinarily careful that you never cross this line. be honest what this is about, willie. this is an abuse of executive power. this is -- this is erdogan's turkey. this is not what the united states of america should be. this is using state power to penalize enemies or perceived enemies and seeing it not just here. think about the use of antitrust to go after time warner and at&t but not to go after rupert murdoch. this is the use of state power in a politicized way. this has nothing to do with people monetizing secrets.

this has everything to do with an abuse of presidential power. >> and, joe, like everything else with this president it is personal. it is about ego. it's about the president of the united states turning on the tv and seeing the people on that list yesterday being critical of him and his policies. >> that's what sarah basically said. that people had been critical of his policies on russia. this is -- this "is," talk about erdogan, reminds me, david ig anywa ignacious, he went after first the generals, the military. where his purge started, and this is donald trump's own mini version of it. going after -- some of the most esteemed foreign policy minds of a generation. general hayden, for instance. and doing it as a purge, because you don't like the fact that he's being critical of some of your policies. >> this is a political enemy's

list, pure and simple. it was so sloppily drawn that it turns out that two of the names on it don't have security clearances any longer to be removed. what these people have in common is that they have dared to criticize president trump's policies. sometimes in quite sharp terms. i do think as richard haass said, this is an attempt as we've seen earlier in the attacks on peter strzok, the former fbi agent, the repeated attacks on james comey that led to his firing, an effort to say that criticism of the president, calling attention to the president's actions, especially in the russia investigation, is somehow wrong. there's been an attempt to web some sort of criminal conspiratorial tone around this,

and this is the latest chapter. let's just look at one person on this list. jim clapper has been an american intelligence official in one way or another for 50 years. starting in the air force. he's been all over the world. there is no tough job in american intelligence that jim clapper didn't take on over the years. i've interviewed him on the record many times when he was director of intelligence. the one thing i always knew was that he would tell it straight. he said some things that deeply embarrassed president obama. one interview he said the administration just did not see isis coming, didn't take them seriously enough. that's the kind of thing you want a real intelligence officer to say, to tell the truth, and to see jim clapper on this list along with the others, i have to say, it's shocking, having watched his career over so many years. >> yeah. again, the ignorance of this administration. first of all, putting people on the list that already had lost their security clearances. they might as well put dean rusk

and millard tillmore. just as relevant as a couple of those people. i want to circle back to something that happened last night, and, richard, get your input. david, your input. also, heidi, maybe can give insight what exactly, what the hell happened on capitol hill? we were talking how donald trump's company, richard, had gotten 200 or 300 million dollar, a grant, i believe from the chinese government for a project or at least a grant to a project the trump organization was affiliated with and soon after we saw that there was a clearance for zte, this chinese company that -- well, that our intel community said was a risk to america's national security. the senate put language in to strip that deal out, because donald trump said he -- in a

tweet he wanted to save chinese jobs. these chinese jobs, though, were, of course, detrimental to america's national security. richard, we found out that now during a conference, that actually congress stripped the zte penalty provision from a must-pass defense bill. so donald trump had congress in the dark of night slip in language that would protect this company that our intel community and our united states military said was actually a risk to america's national security. talk about that. >> well, the evidence is strong that this is a company that has been creating real security problems to the united states. it should not be used in any way to deal with communications. because one has to assume those communications would be compromised and intercepted by the chinese. so the idea that essentially

this legislation was changed to allow them to continue unpenalized to me is outrageous. now, there's obviously the appearance of something of a conflict. i don't know the details, quid pro quo or the motives, it looks awful. again, there ought to no place for this company doing business in anything that involves the security of the united states of america. >> zte, joe, stood alone, really, as the one example on capitol hill of republicans being willing to stand up to the president when the senate put that provision in, and as you saw the reaction last night from some of the members who spearheaded that effort, specifically marco rubio was incredulous. he said he basically got played on this. the explanation that will be given by lawmakers when i'm up

there asking them about this today will than they did receive a concession and that zte will no longer be able to sell to government agenciesthat will be a gradual phasing out, but everything points to danger in terms of this because this type of telecommunications equipment is, as you all know, a primary tool used to spy on america. >> all right. coming up here, clearing up the misinformation regarding the fisa application into carter page. talk to a top lawyer at the national security agency about that when "morning joe" comes right back. ♪ ♪

♪ let your perfect drive come together at the lincoln summer invitation sales event. get 0% apr on select 2018 lincoln models plus $1,000 bonus cash. booking a flight doesn't have to be expensive. just go to priceline. it's the best place to book a flight a few days before my trip and still save up to 40%. just tap and go... for the best savings on flights, go to priceline. i couldn't catch my breath. it was the last song of the night. it felt like my heart was skipping beats.

they said i had afib. what's afib? i knew that meant i was at a greater risk of stroke. i needed answers. my doctor and i chose xarelto® to help keep me protected from a stroke. once-daily xarelto®, a latest-generation blood thinner significantly lowers the risk of stroke in people with afib not caused by a heart valve problem. warfarin interferes with at least 6 of your body's natural blood-clotting factors. xarelto® is selective, targeting just one critical factor. for afib patients well managed on warfarin, there is limited information on how xarelto® compares in reducing the risk of stroke. don't stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor, as this may increase your risk of stroke. while taking, you may bruise more easily, or take longer for bleeding to stop. xarelto® can cause serious, and in rare cases, fatal bleeding. it may increase your risk of bleeding if you take certain medicines. get help right away for unexpected bleeding or unusual bruising. do not take xarelto® if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. before starting, tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures and any kidney or liver problems. learn all you can

to help protect yourself from a stroke. talk to your doctor about xarelto®.

president trump continues his calls to end the russia investigation on the heels of the fbi's release of documents related to the wiretapping of former campaign aide carter page. president trump took to twitter yesterday tweeting, we now find out it was indeed the fake dirty dossier paid for by dirty hillary clinton and the dnc knowingly and falsely submitted to fisa, and responsible for starting the totally conflicted and discredited mueller witch-hunt. end tweet. declassified application shows

investigators did not base their request solely on the dossier but other sources of information as well. documents also showed investigators informed fisa court judges of the source of their information contrary to the president's claims. joining us now, former senior minority counsel for the russia invest gays and senate select committee on intelligence and for intelligence law for the national security agency, april doss. april is now chair of cyber and privacy at sol ewing. thanks for being with us. this store and this piece gets complicated for a lot of people. why there was a fisa application, what was in it, what informed the approval of that application. what's your takeaway from what we've learned here? >> i think the big takeaway is that the fisa statute puts in place a lot of protections to make sure that any surveillance of u.s. persons is properly grounded. in facts and in law. what we see in these lengthy

documents, 412 pages for four applications is the government going through that really painstaking and thorough process of putting together the case for probable cause. as you point out, the documents make clear there were a whole lot of bases for the government's probable cause case, not just the dossier. it's important to remember that and that the standard for these documents is not the standard for conviction. it's not proof beyond a reasonable doubt. it's probable cause. does the government have enough information that it should be given authorization to continue to investigate, to see if there's reason to be concerned. >> so, april, on that issue itself, probable cause, clearly they felt there was probable cause, because they got renewals, two, three, i think four renewals. the question i have and several other people have raised is, why hasn't carter page been indicted? >> so, you know, we don't know. we won't know until there's an

outcome, sort of an ultimate outcome, if you will, on mueller's investigation or any other investigations that may be related to this, an it's important to remember that, you know, fisa is above all an intelligence gathering tool. it's used for intelligence and counterintelligence investigations and those don't necessarily lead to criminal charges or convictions. it's possible there's an intelligence investigation that leads nowhere and also possible there's an intelligence investigation that is useful for intelligence purposes but doesn't really take prosecutors down the path of pursuing a criminal conviction. >> april, this is david ignatius. i want to follow up on what mike asked you. one of the most interesting things about these documents to me is that the fisa application was renewed three times and each time the redacted material kept

growing. i believe it grows from roughly 5 pages of redacted highly classified material, the first one to roughly 60 pages by the last one. what does that tell us about what's been happening as this investigation actually went on and what kinds of things they were finding out? >> yes. of course, a great question. we can only speculate, because what's redacted we can't see. but in a typical series of renewals like we have here, what you would see is every time the government comes forward with a new application, a renewal, they have to re-establish probable cause. and what they'll do is incorporate previous information to the extent it's still relevant and valid and allow in new information. one would ordinarily expect that from a first initial application, if anything useful is turned up through the surveillance itself, or perhaps from other sources that would be

incorporated into the second application and into the third and so forth. that's part of the probable cause case, if you will. so we can only speculate because we don't know what's behind those redactions, but that would be the typical course of things. that as new information is found that gets added over time. >> april doss, interprets this for us well. thank you for your time. appreciate it absolutely. thank you. joe, president trump thinks he's on to something here. he's been hammering on twitter this carter page fisa application connecting it to the steele dossier, back to hillary clinton and all the way back to the 2016 campaign and his election as president. what is he setting up here? what is he trying to do? >> first of all, i've got to say, i'm reminded, you would, of course, appreciate this, mika wouldn't. it's good she's not on the show this morning. i think one of the most moving parts of "star wars 7" was when they go up to hans solo and they're asking about the jedi and asking about luke, and he

turns there and at the end, ultimate senate goes -- it's all true. >> it's all true. >> all of it. >> chills. chills! yes. >> and as we -- chills? oh, my chills. >> i can't wait for 9. anyway. and by the way, kathleen kennedy is doing a great job, i don't understand the criticism, but anyway, mika would have me kicked off air now talking this much about "star wars," but the further we get down the road, the more you have people like politico's editor. had blake on yesterday saying i used to be a skeptic. after helsinki, after all of the indictments, i'm not a skeptic. you saw fox news pull out saying the majority of americans want mueller to take his time and they want him to get it right. donald trump has to know the

firing of james comey led him to where he is today and that the firing of rod rosenstein or robert mueller would end, would be far uglier. the political fallout would be absolutely earth shattering for him. you have a lot of republicans in the senate especially that have already said that, willie. it would cast the actions in the sharpest terms with democrats and i think you would have a 1974 post watergate sweep by democrats. i don't know, willie, what do you think? i don't think he has a lot of good choices, also leaves the state attorneys general saying mueller will give himself this information, we'll leave the charges on the state level and he can't pardon them. >> i think you're right, but it is donald trump, that's the thing you have to keep reminding yourself. you know the man well. it is still on the board that he

would get rid of rod rosenstein and robert mueller because he is a man that lives in the moment and does what feels good without thinking about consequences. i wouldn't rule it out. still ahead, joe, russia pushed back and russia found an audience for their reality. ahead on "morning joe."

this is frank. sup! this is frank's favorite record. this is frank's dog. and this is frank's record shop. frank knowns northern soul, but how to set up a limited liability company... what's that mean? not so much. so he turned to his friends at legalzoom. yup! they hooked me up. we helped with his llc, contracts, and some other stuff that's part of running a business. so frank can focus on the beat. you hear that? this is frank's record shop. and this is where life meets legal.

with tough food, your dentures may slip and fall. new fixodent ultra-max hold gives you the strongest hold ever to lock your dentures. so now you can eat tough food without worry. fixodent and forget it.

but one blows them all out of the water. hydro boost from neutrogena®. with hyaluronic acid to plump skin cells so it bounces back. neutrogena®

so coming up at the top of the hour, after helsinki, cohen tapes and the upcoming trial, there's no shortage of headlines that the president would love to knock off the front pages. will he and has he mastered the art of the distraction? and from the foreign relations and armed services committees,

we have senator jeanne shaheen, also congressman seth moulton from armed services committee. "morning joe" is coming right back. i was there, just not always where i needed to be. is she alright? i hope so. so i talked to my doctor about humira. i learned humira is for people who still have symptoms of crohn's disease after trying other medications. and the majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief and many achieved remission in as little as 4 weeks. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection.

be there for you, and them. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, remission is possible. booking a flight doesn't have to be expensive. just go to priceline. it's the best place to book a flight a few days before my trip and still save up to 40%. just tap and go... for the best savings on flights, go to priceline. it's a high-tech revolution in sleep. the new sleep number 360 smart bed. it intelligently senses your movement and automatically adjusts on each side to keep you both comfortable. and snoring? how smart is that? smarter sleep. to help you lose your dad bod, train for that marathon, and wake up with the

patience of a saint. the new sleep number 360 smart bed, from $999. smarter sleep will change your life.

for travel throughout november and december. so you can fill the rest of your year with all the fun. book now at southwest.com low fares. no hidden fees. that's transfarency. not own is the president looking to take away brennan's security clearance, he is looking into clearances of comey, clapper, hayden, rice and mccabe. the president is exploring the mechanisms to remove security

clearance because they politicize and in some cases monetize their public service and security clearances, making faceless accusations of improper contact with russia, being influenced by russia against the president is extremely inappropriate. the fact that people with security clearances make these baseless charges provides legit me see with zero evidence. >> yes, yes, yes. also sarah huckabee sanders said the security clearances of kinen, rusk, thomas skbrejeffer were considered by donald trump and others that already lost their security clearance, they didn't even try to figure out who didn't have security clearances when they did that stupid list. speaking of a stupid list, and a stupid political move, "the wall street journal" editorial board is out this morning with a blunt

op-ed simply entitled dumb idea of the week. and "the wall street journal" had it right in part. sometimes we wonder what kind of discussions take place inside the white house. on monday, press secretary sarah sanders disclosed that president trump may revoke the security clearances of six former officials that criticized him. when someone came up with that idea, did everyone on the staff shake their heads and say yeah, that will show him. someone should have said that's a dumb idea, it will make us look petty and it won't accomplish anything and also perhaps somebody else could say some of those people don't even have security clearances any more. welcome back to "morning joe." it is tuesday, july 24th. mika has the morning off.

along with willie and me, we have mike barnicle, president of council on foreign relations richard haas, heidi bryzgalov. and now nbc national news security analyst, jeremy bash, julia yafi, and political reporter for "the washington post," moderator of washington week on pbs and msnbc political analyst, robert costa. we were talking about, robert, the distraction effect. here you have donald trump obviously embarrassed by helsinki or what was told by a lot of people he should have been embarrassed by, by what happened in helsinki, and the fox news equivalent of hillary

clinton's e-mail server. instead of talking about what's in front of you, go to past administrations, start attacking them. "the wall street journal" said this was a dumb idea, but is this just donald trump's attempt to distract from what happened when he and vladimir putin met? >> editorial writers of the journal may have been surprised, but the reporters covering president trump know by nature in president is a revoker. he revoked press credentials for "the washington post," revoked trade agreements with u.s. rivals and allies. he likes to exert power by taking away things, a trademark of his career. >> jeremy bash, talk about names on the list brought up yesterday in the briefing room by sarah huckabee sanders. former cia director john brennan, michael hayden, james comey, deputy director andrew mccabe whose office says he no longer has security clearance,

same for james comey. to begin with, james clapper, susan rice, former national security adviser to president trump. give specifics of the idea of taking away security clearance and this idea of monetizing the clearance. >> yeah, i think the president has a theory somehow he is going to try to harm his critics, all it is going to do is harm the united states government. why do i say that? the reason officials retain security clearance for a period of time is so the current objecting pants of the offices they once held can consult with them and say how did you deal with the situation. we're going to be meeting with leadership of this country. what was your experience meeting with them? how should we approach a certain complex issue. really benefits people trump had running his current national security departments and agencies, if they can't reach back to former officials and consult, they're going to not have all of the tools in their tool box to deal with complex

problems. the president somehow thinks he is harming his enemies list when in fact he is harming his own efforts. like the scene from the movie where the person holds a gun to his head and says one false move and i'll shoot. >> sarah huckabee sanders talked about monetizing, what she's saying is leveraging experience. i wonder if sarah huckabee sanders might seek a job once she leaves the white house for which she will be paid based on her experience inside the administration. >> you can look at people that have already been in the administration, a lot of them have gone back out and made money, they're looking to make money. there are people inside the white house. we had report after report after report of people in the white house fretting because donald trump's reputation is so bad around washington, d.c. business community that they can't get a job when they leave the trump white house. it is preposterous. but it is trump. like we both talked about, this

is donald trump trying to distract from the fact that he made a fool of himself in helsinki and has been called out on it by just about everybody. >> looking to punish people he has seen on tv critical of him. >> julia, want to talk about your piece in "the washington post." you write putin it turns out is no longer alone in the world. after years of churning out fab list explanations for russian actions, the russians found a willing audience for putin's reality. putin has been playing a game of chicken with the united states. and finally the ufs in the person of trump has blinked. the tweet he put out about america's foolishness and stupidity with russia and the foreign minister tweeting we agree. >> not just that, i'm talking

about propensity for these wacky, outlandish sweeconspirac theories. trump mentioned the pakistan gentleman, the dnc servers, he completely debunked conspiracy theories, what do they have in common, they exxon rate trump and the republicans. after the russians shot down the airliner over ukraine, there was a conspiracy theory going around about pedro, the spanish air traffic controller who spotted allegedly a ukrainian plane next to the malaysia airliner and shot it down. a year ago, putin brought it up at one of his press conferences and said what about pedro, the

equivalent of the pakistani gentleman that trump cited. more importantly, it is this willingness to believe anything that validates your decisions, that the facts have to fit your narrative, no matter how crazy they are. i just want to get back quickly to what we were talking about with the security clearances. nobody is talking about the fact that susan rice for some reason is on this list. i think, you know, she was -- i think this is kind of a bone toss to the fringe of the republican party, not even the fringe. she, the two fall people for gaza were hillary clinton and susan rice. susan rice was supposed to be secretary of state after hillary clinton but was denied it because republicans dragged her for her role in gaza, and i think it is telling that it is two women that were the fall women for this other conspiracy

theory. >> want to turn to the question of russia for a second. former russian senior official basically said the other day that russians were making a mistake, putting all their eggs in the trump basket, that they were alienating large swathes of american elite and public opinion. do you see any debate about this, to what extent should russian foreign policy be trump policy, to what extent russia needs to deal with congress, journalists, academics, have a broader u.s. policy to deal with the united states? >> that's an excellent question and i think there are people in russia that recognize this is a risky strategy, and they worry at any point trump could turn on them. on one hand he is being the peruseful idiot, and the

administration is being tougher and tougher on them. on the other hand, what do the debates mean in an authoritarian country. there's one decision maker. he, like donald trump, is increasingly isolated informationally, surrounded by yes men and again this propensity to believe conspiracy theories that validate his decisions and increasingly skewed view of the world. on the other hand, on the thirdhand, people like benjamin netanyahu who also risk big, took a huge risk, gambled really big, for example, weighing in for the republicans during one of our elections, weighing in for trump during the 2016 election, and it has paid offhand some offhand -- paid off handsomely. for leaders like bb and putin, but right now this is

benefitting us. >> a sense of the pulse within the white house, you measure the pulse on a daily basis. only a week since helsinki. we have multiple news stories each and every day since then, the fisa warrant applications release for everyone to read. can you give us a sense of the level of anxiety within the white house about this rapidly, seemingly rapidly increasing pace of the mueller investigation into the president? >> mike, it depends which corner of the west wing you decide to stroll into. today, for example, "the washington post" said fiona hill, a hawkish voice on russia in this administration will meet with former ambassador mike mcfall to try to talk through some of his issues, but after being put as part of a possible proposal deal with russian president putin. you have the white house almost

isolated and the president working with congressional allies, taking a shot every day at the mueller investigation, calling it a hoax. it is the president and his inner circle, the president himself on social media driving one message and the official administration, but it is clear in reporting that they're discorded messages out of the same white house, the same administration. >> heidi, it is a great thing i personally think that ambassador mcfall is going to the white house. that's the thing richard haas will tell us the white house has not done in the past, refuse to talk with people with experience that may disagree with their experiences moving forward, so it is a great thing the ambassador is going after the debacle last week, but suggests there's been pressure put on the white house to be more

inclusive. what can you tell us about what you're hearing on the hill again, back to this question of what are you hearing from republicans on the hill because this does seem like when more republicans spoke out with a unified voice against donald trump's cave to vladimir putin. >> this is one issue we saw unanimous resin the senate to tell president trump that we are not going to be allowing any u.s. officials to be interrogated or sent to russia, yes, there was definitely a push back there. and this administration also knows that tomorrow is a really important day, joe. secretary of state mike pompeo is coming to the senate foreign relations committee for what's effectively his first foreign policy grilling before senators who are very agitated because not only do we not know what specifically happened in helsinki, we don't know what

happened in singapore. and it is now a month and a half since pompeo came back from singapore without members of congress knowing anything about contours of what may or may not have been agreed to with kim jong-un. so i think the administration is also greasing the wheels there for what may turn into a contentious hearing with the democrats and republicans as well on the senate foreign relations like jeff flake, bob corker, one of the few republicans willing to speak out against the administration taking center stage. >> russia meanwhile, talked about the russian investigation and not talking up to putin helsinki, russia continues attacks. hackers were able to gain access to control rooms of u.s. power companies where they could have caused massive blackouts, according to homeland security officials. "the wall street journal" is reporting that last year hackers working for state sponsored groups isolated negotiation

owned by power companies, penetrating key vendors with trusted relationships. the chief of industrial control analysis at dhs says they got to the point they could have thrown switches and disrupted power flows. officials add the campaign likely continues. it is unknown whether hackers used access to prepare for some future attack. department of homeland security has been warning utility executives about russian groups' threat to critical infrastructure since 2014. russia has denied targeting that critical infrastructure. jeremy bash, this may be what the director of national intelligence dan coats has been saying over and over again, that the red lights are blinking now, warnings from russia as the attacks continue. what would be your concern here, does this look like a dry run for russian hackers to shut down the power grid? >> i do think this is a sleeper issue, not only has russian government officials perfected use of social media, not only have they perfected use of

hacking and dumping e-mail, they're looking to ping and penetrate critical infrastructure. a lot of that is held in the private sector, it is not supported by necessarily government defenses, and it is an effort to perfect and improve russia's cyber weapons. this is part of a broader effort by russia to engage in asymmetric warfare. they're never going to defeat us, but they're going to use espionage, cyber attacks and efforts to undermine and attack us. i think this is an effort to beef up their cyber weapons. >> as you read this story, richard, the russians sort of waltzed in and having access to power grids could cause blackouts. >> the chinese got into the office of personnel management and things like this. this is a real message to the united states. this is a way of saying you do

things with economic sanctions, you put pressure on us, and then we have ways to push back against you. so this seems to me this is not simply when we move to all out competition on confrontation with russia, it is a shot across our bow saying you hurt us, you can hurt us with economic sanctions, there are things we can do to disrupt the american economy and society. again, this is a whole area of international relations where there are fewer rules than any other area, whether nuclear, conventional warfare. when it comes to cyber, it is the wild west. a lot of people with the equivalent of guns. there's no sheriff, no rule of law. it is in some ways the most frightening area of international relations today. >> and makes it all the more crazy that vladimir putin and donald trump would have a cyber security committee to discuss this, discussing cyber security with the russians is like discussing beheadings with isis.

makes no sense from the perspective of national security. >> jeremy bash, bob costa, thank you for your reporting. thank you all. still ahead on "morning joe," next guest served four tours in iraq, leading a marine platoon to baghdad. is the united states poised for another conflict in that region? massachusetts democrat is next on "morning joe." who would have guessed? an energy company helping cars emit less. making cars lighter, it's a good place to start, advanced oils for those hard-working parts. fuels that go further so drivers pump less. improving efficiency is what we do best. energy lives here.

improving efficiency is what we do best. booking a flight doesn't have to be expensive. just go to priceline. it's the best place to book a flight a few days before my trip and still save up to 40%. just tap and go... for the best savings on flights, go to priceline. if yor crohn's symptoms are holding you back, and your current treatment hasn't worked well enough, it may be time for a change. ask your doctor about entyvio, the only biologic developed and approved just for uc and crohn's. entyvio works at the site of inflammation in the gi tract and is clinically proven to help many patients achieve both symptom relief and remission. infusion and serious allergic reactions can happen during or after treatment. entyvio may increase risk of infection, which can be serious. pml, a rare, serious, potentially fatal brain infection caused by a virus may be possible. this condition has not been reported with entyvio.

tell your doctor if you have an infection, experience frequent infections or have flu-like symptoms or sores. liver problems can occur with entyvio. if your uc or crohn's treatment isn't working for you, ask your gastroenterologist about entyvio. entyvio. relief and remission within reach.

♪ it's so hard to believe ♪ but it's all coming back me. ♪ baby, baby, baby. all you can eat is back, baby. applebee's.

are you ready to take your then you need xfinity xfi.? a more powerful way to stay connected. it gives you super fast speeds for all your devices, provides the most wifi coverage for your home, and lets you control your network with the xfi app. it's the ultimate wifi experience. xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome. joining us, seth moulton of massachusetts. always good to have you with us. >> thanks for having me back. >> start with yesterday, with the all caps tweet telling iran to be cautious, threatening that country and rowhani responding, and the foreign minister there.

you served four tours. what's your concern as you ratchet it up. there are people around the president in john bolton and pompeo. >> you don't conduct foreign policies with temper tantrums on twitter. they look to me for a plan to stand up to terrorists, i said i don't have a plan but i will start tweeting it. that's essentially what's going on from the commander in chief. second of all, he doesn't seem to understand the stakes here. iran actively worked to kill american troops in iraq. i saw that myself firsthand. we actually had to fight iranians. we need someone strong and sure against this enemy with a plan to hold them in check. we had an imperfect deal in the nuclear deal to make sure iran

didn't build a nuclear weapon. it wasn't a perfect deal, i don't think any of us thought it was. it prevented iran building a nuclear weapon. trump came in, ripped it out without any alternative in place. >> congressman, here's your morning softball. throw it right over the plate for you. you have been traveling the country on behalf of candidates and you hope to get engaged in politics. many of them veterans. you have been in many states, you are mentioned as a potential candidate yourself. tell us this morning, you as a democrat, what's your story? where do you want to take us as a democrat, the democratic party, where are we going? >> the reality is a lot of americans are hurting, feeling unsafe, feel like they can't pay the next health care bill that comes to them. what we need are leaders that have courage to be honest about problems we face in america, and are actually going to develop an

economic plan for the future so every american has a job that matters in the new economy, not going back into the coal mines like trump says but in the new economy. we need leaders that understand how to make us strong and safe in national security. people with strong plans to keep us safe and smart plans to make sure we have plans for the future. and democrats that can reform the government. if we're the party to help, show how government works for everybody in america. the kind of leaders i see across the country that are stepping up, many serving again, put their lives on the line for the country again, people like mj hager in texas, hero that says i want to serve this country again. a navy helicopter pilot up in new jersey who said i don't care about how hard this challenge

is, took on the chairman of house appropriations and is going to win that race. there are extraordinary leaders who are stepping up, who have courage to be honest about problems we face and are going to lead not just because they're democrats but because they believe in this country. >> little homework, but i am getting an a minus. >> congressman, in terms of iran, the other thing besides the president's tweets, the secretary of state's speech essentially calling, supporting dissidents, supporting protesters, and essentially supporting an alternative iranian leadership. what do you think of u.s. policy that tries to bring about a different iran? >> that's a very smart policy. that's what we had under president obama when he pushed this nuclear deal which was opposed by the iranian hard

liners and supported by dissidents that trump says he is supporting. the problem is that there's a complete disconnect between his rhetoric and what he is actually doing. when trump ratchets up tensions against iran with their leaders, he is empowering hard liners, empowering people that say the only way out is to have war with america. and what he should be doing is empowering the dissidents, empowering people that say it is okay to give up nuclear weapons, we want to be partners with the west. this is a tough international negotiation and i understand that we have a commander in chief that dodged the draft five times to get out of serving himself, but if it brings to the foreh fore a leader that understands what it means to be a soldier on the ground in iraq and have iranians target you and your

buddied. >> you keep mentioning the iran deal, that echos what i hear from a lot of lawmakers, that they're concerned about uneven treatment as they see it between iran and north korea. we had a deal with iran which like you said we had benchmarks, there was every indication they were meeting benchmarks. we tore it up. now we have something with north korea that is not even really a deal, we don't know what they agreed to. why do you think there's uneven treatment in what's at the root of it? >> i think at the root is a president with no idea what he is doing. it does actually when you hear what's going on in iran, it does make you think of north korea. he had a temper tantrum against the north korean leader, next thing you know, he is sitting down, making some sort of deal, which isn't a deal. all trump did in north korea is he gave up military exercises with one of our most important allies. the single american ally in the world under the greatest daily threat of annihilation, south

korea, and gave up military exercises with them for what? some promise from a leader that said he would get rid of nuclear weapons and we have no way to verify this? in comparison to the iran deal which i admit wasn't perfect, this nuclear deal in north korea -- at the same time, he is distracting from putin and the disaster in helsinki. we have gone from foreign policy in the united states where democrats and republicans can come together to one led by an erratic commander in chief. we have gone from kennedy and cuban missile crisis who stared down the russian bear until it backed off to reagan who stared down the russian bear until it fell apart, to trump who is cozying up to the russian bear and inviting him for a play date in washington. what the hell is going on here? >> congressman, as we talk about immigration, we have rightly

been focused on separation of families, we continue to be focused on that. but there's an element of the immigration story that you're looking at that hasn't gotten much attention. you went to the border, el paso, crossed into juarez, mexico, and that's deportation of veterans of vietnam and gulf war one, of iraq, afghanistan. who are these people, why were they deported? >> first of all, we went down to the border to try to truly understand this crisis. i took some of these amazing veterans running for congress across the country and we went down, rather than do a six hour trip with a press conference, we spent two days on both sides of the border, meeting with everybody on all sides of the immigration crisis. that means we met with i.c.e. and customs and border officials, met with women separated from their children. in juarez we spent a lot of time with deported veterans. that's a term that shouldn't

even exist. these are americans that served their country. most of them lived in america their entire lives and then didn't get their paperwork in order when they were on active duty, and as a result of some sort of infraction, they've gotten deported. i'll give you an example. we met a navy sailor, someone who proudly worked on the bows of destroyers, proud of ships he served on. he served in the navy ten years. came to america as a child. children and parents, all legal american residents. he got out of the navy, got a dui. that's a serious offense. it is an offense that many of my colleagues in congress have committed. and after serving time for a dui, for having his punishment, he got deported. now he is in mexico, a country that he has never known, his entire family is in the united states, and his record of service to the united states navy is impeccable. that's just a tragedy.

one of the things we learned about this border trip, everybody that touches the immigration system, whether an i.c.e. official, officer, customs and border patrolman or deported veteran or woman separated from her kids, everyone thinks the system is totally broken as it is. we in washington need to have courage to face that and fix it. and that's why we want to understand it on the ground, so we can come to washington and develop real solutions to this. >> we have numbers of families separated, veterans deported. feels like the story goes on and on, despite focus and outrage in this country. why hasn't it changed more quickly. you see progress getting families back together? >> it hasn't changed more quickly because we have the same leaders in washington taking the same old approach to new world problems. what we need is a new generation of leaders, not just to replace the republicans in congress that

can't get anything done but to step up in our own party and say let's be honest about this problem. it is a hard problem. we've got to have secured borders. that's the reality. we also have to make sure that people coming here for legitimate reasons that are fleeing violence, not coming here to try to take our jobs, but fleeing for their lives have a chance at the american dream. something we always promised the world. we need new leaders here, people with the courage to face these problems, that will have a vision for the future and can bring people together to solve them. you know, when i was on the campaign trail in 2014 in my own first tough race, i had to talk to thousands of people. one of the most memorable was the united states navy veteran from world war ii, he fought in the pacific. and i went up to him, introduced myself to him at a diner. i said i am running because i want to serve the country again. he said one thing to me. he said seth, promise me if you go to washington, you go as an

american, not as a democrat or republican but as an american. we need to get back to that, we need leaders in washington that do the right thing for the country, that put people before politics and are willing to get things done. >> congressman seth moulton. thank you very much. we appreciate it. coming up, sarah huckabee sanders says the white house shared details about putin. jeanne shaheen is not convinced. she wants the president's translater to testify before congress.

overwhelming air fresheners can send you running... so try febreze one. with no aerosols and no heavy perfumes. so you can spray and stay. febreze one.

these are the specialists we're proud to call our own. experts from all over the world, working closely together to deliver truly personalized cancer care. expert medicine works here. learn more at cancercenter.com

if during the course of negotiation they want to hit the farmers because they think that hits me, i wouldn't say that's nice but i tell you our farmers are great patriots. these are great patriots. they understand they're doing this for the country. >> that was president trump in april talking about fallout from a trade war with china. more than three months later, distress signals are rolling in from areas that largely

supported the president. vonn hilliard reports from nebraska. >> reporter: this summer president trump has antagonized this country's closest allies on the diplomatic stage. when it comes to trade, he's done the same, alienating the likes of canada, mexico, the eu. despite warnings from members of congress about consequences of isolation and american workers like the soybean farmers in nebraska pleading for relief from escalating tariffs, it is clear president trump is determined to go at this alone. >> you may even get tired of winning. >> it is going to be so easy. i alone can fix it. >> i feel like it was a kick in the stomach. >> reporter: oarai was where pork and corn exports are sidelined. >> other countries pick up that slack and we lose those markets maybe for good.

>> reporter: that reached the cranberry bogs of massachusetts. >> we don't want to be punished for just being from america. >> reporter: market uncertainty stretches into kentucky's bourbon distilleries, across potato fields of idaho and back here in nebraska, soybeans. >> right now it is a lot of pain we're going through. >> reporter: third generation farmer hopes the president he voted for will end this trade war. >> every day the tariffs are going on is costing farmers millions of dollars. >> reporter: as producers wait for trump's exit strategy, his chief economic adviser says we're in a stalemate with china. >> trade negotiations are kind of stalled. >> reporter: and the president's handpicked fed chair warns these tactics could stunt economic growth. >> countries that go into more protectionist direction have done worse. >> reporter: on capitol hill we caught up with lawmakers from trump voting states calling for the administration to pull back. >> do you understand what farmers and ranches need?

no, the administration doesn't understand. >> i understand the president's efforts but we are caught in the cross hairs. >> there's not a senator that's been over there that can come back and tell you has any earthly idea where this is going. >> reporter: now senators in both parties are pressing for legislation to give congress approval power over tariffs. >> i am doing this to do the right thing for our country. >> reporter: president trump seems set on going it alone, which frustrates this lobster retailer. >> he said in his convention speech that he alone could fix it. >> right, yeah, he is trying. the alone part is the problem, right? he doesn't have the full picture and he is making decisions without talking to enough people. >> joe, you can go across the country, saw maine, nebraska, iowa, idaho, you have farmers, the state of tennessee with a booming automobile sales economy, lamar alexander on the

floor of the senate last week saying 25% tariff would kill jobs and cripple the economy of our state. >> yeah. and talking about again i guess it is ignorance? i'm not exactly sure why donald trump would be pushing policies that damage some of his strongest supporters and actually damage the industries they work for. i still wonder why we haven't heard more from south carolina representatives about donald trump attacking germany and saying that they dump their cars here. gamble started a revolution in scare south carolina, you see it in alabama with extraordinary work by the good people of alabama on building mercedes, you can talk about tennessee, you can go across the deep south.

foreign car makers have created a boom, and richard, it makes little to no sense. i keep using south carolina as an example because the industrial, the manufacturing revolution that they started in south carolina that other republican governors and senators supported in the past, that led to an explosion of other businesses around greenville and around south carolina. why would any republican not speak out forcefully against a president who is so ignorant about basics of economics here? >> it is going to cost us far more jobs than we're ever going to save. we'll be shut out of export markets. consumers will start paying higher prices for imports

effected by tariffs. as the story pointed out, american exporters are going to be hammered. the administration is not careful here, joe, they're going to set in motion a chain of events that's going to not just hurt exporters and importers, it is going to lead american businesses to increasingly sit on their hands. no one will make certain types of investments, they're not sure what the environment will be. this more than anything else has the chance to undo what is the single biggest positive of the administration, do things to stimulate economic growth. they could do themselves in with this set of policies. >> yeah. let's bring in u.s. senator jeanne shaheen. she's of course from new hampshire and sits on the armed services committee and foreign affairs committee. senator shaheen, we're talking about the short sightedness of the president's trade wars, unilateral trade wars. last time i was in greenville, south carolina, the mayor was walking me around the town.

i grew up in the south, i've seen greenville grow from a sleep ee ba sleepy back watertown to this extremely automotive, aerospace hub. says the funny thing, walking my old hometown in greenville, south carolina, friday night what is spoken on main street, german because they brought their families here and brought so much money to our region, they've revolutionized it. i just don't understand what donald trump doesn't get and what republicans in that state don't get. >> well, i don't understand it either, and it is not just south carolina and states that have brought in big businesses to do auto manufacturing. in new hampshire on friday i visited a small mead maker, it is a form of honey who lost a large deal with china they have been working on for months and

months, had to layoff employees, they're also being hit by increased cost of aluminum because of their cans, and he is struggling because of this trade policy that makes no sense. it's something that's going to effect everybody, not just big businesses but small businesses. >> mike? >> yeah, joe, it is a policy that's carried out, con kokcocty the white house. people know very little about the intricacies of the policies, why it was outlined, put into place. but that's not the only policy that we're worried about here, senator. you're concerned about what happened in helsinki and you've called for the american interpreter who was in the room with president trump and vladimir putin to appear before the senate, but i would ask you, of course, there are a host of questions about what happened in helsinki, but we don't yet know, do we, what happened in

singapore. >> well, we don't. i'm looking forward to secretary pompeo coming before the foreign relations committee tomorrow, to have a chance to question him about singapore, what follow-up steps are and what the north koreans are doing and what happened in helsinki. the point of trying to get the interpreter to come before the senate is to find out what happened. right now, the information we're getting about what happened in that meeting is coming out of the russian defense ministry and other russian government officials. i don't think that works for congress. we have an oversite responsibility and doesn't work for the american people. >> senator, can you please confirm for us whether or not democrats and republicans on the committee have been pushing for pompeo to actually give a classified briefing as opposed to the briefing you're getting tomorrow which is unclassified because the concerns on the hill are so significant at this point that you haven't been debriefed

on all these secret meetings between the president and foreign autocrats, and secondly, what do you reasonably expect to get from pompeo in the way of answers on the most important issues given the briefing is not classified. >> well, i'm not sure whether the committee is supporting a classified briefing or not. i think classified is appropriate. i think the important thing is that we get answers, and i don't expect we'll get a lot of answers from secretary pompeo in an open hearing. >> senator, do you think it is realistic that translater will appear before congress? >> there's been a lot of push back from my republican colleagues. some people like senator corker remained open to the idea. again, the point is we need information about what was agreed to. several weeks ago lindsey graham and i were in syria. we saw the gains we have made working with the syrian democratic forces in northern syria along the turkish border.

rumors are that those gains are at risk by what president trump may have agreed to with vladimir putin in terms of turning over syria to the russians. think th questions that affect our national security, that affect the commitments we have made around the world, and we need to know what happened. it is not good enough to have russian government officials saying what happened in that meeting, and we don't even know. and it appears that members of the administration don't know. >> astonishingly, we may never know exactly what happened in that room. senator jeanne shaheen, thank you for your time. >> night to be with you. still to come, new reporting says michael cohen's relationship with the president is eroding thanks in part to jared kushner and rudy guilliani. we are joined for that reporting just ahead on "morning joe."

how do you win at business? stay at laquinta. where we're changing with contemporary make-overs. then, use the ultimate power handshake, the upper hander with a double palm grab. who has the upper hand now? start winning today. book now at lq.com.

>> the trial for paul manafort

was set to begin tomorrow but it has been delayed until next tuesday to give the defense more time to prepare. the judge also granted immunity to five potential witnesses whom prosecutors may call to testify. prosecutors wanted to withhold their names until trial in case they did not testify, but the judge ordered the names be made public now. all five potential witnesses appear to work in various financial institutions that have been linked to manafort either in court filings or publish heed reports. none of them have been charged with a crime and it is unclear if they would be. the president's former campaign chair is accused of hiding at least $30 million he made while representing ukraine and its former pro-russian president. joe, this will be our first window into the mueller investigation as it was an indictment handed down from that special counsel's office. >> it really will. it will be the first trial that we see, if in fact it goes to trial. you never know. a lot of times you will have the defense take it all the way up to opening statements and then decide to do a deal. most people don't understand why

manafort hasn't already done the deal already, unless he fears retribution from russian oligarchs if he does start talking. but it is also -- it is not only the first trial. this is really -- he's the key player. manafort is the key player if you are looking at collusion, and we're not just talking about illegal collusion, collusion of any sort between the russians and the trump campaign. so i think we're going to learn a lot in this trial and learn a lot in what happens after the trial if he finally decides to start cooperating with robert mueller and the investigation. >> we will get our first window into that next tuesday when manafort's trial begins. still athey hhead this morn "vanity fair" emily jane fox joins us. how he went from taking a bullet for donald trump to refusing to roll over and die.

plus the white house trying to strip security clearances from former intelligence heads. best d and best in-class torque the f-150 lineup has the capability to get big things to big places --bigtime. and things just got bigger. f-150 is now motor trend's 2018 truck of the year. this is the new 2018 ford f-150. it doesn't just raise the bar, pal. it is the bar. welcome to holiday inn! thank you! ♪ ♪ wait, i have something for you! every stay is a special stay at holiday inn. save up to 15% when you book early at hollidayinn.com

dinner date...meeting his parents dinner date. save up to 15% why did i want a crest 3dk early white smile? so i used crest. crest 3d white removes... ...95% of surface stains in just 3 days... ...for a whiter smile... that will win them over. crest. healthy, beautiful smiles for life.

>> these baseless charges provides inappropriate legitimacy to accusations with zero evidence. >> do you accept that president obama was born in the united states. >> i really don't know. >> these baseless charges provides inappropriate legitimacy with zero evidence.

>> that was sarah sanders yesterday accusing long-time public servants -- get this -- of exploiting their security clearances to criticize the president and make money. it is another hair-on-fire headline that generates clicks and has donald trump and his white house trying to pull attention away from the fact that america's commander in chief has significant exposure in the mueller probe and also away from a failing foreign policy. like the birther conspiracy before it, it is another duly de wrapped in camouflage. so we just thought as a public service to all of you who might have been distracted by the shiny penny that they threw out on the streets yesterday that we would be clear about what this year's leading headline is, what it should be and what it will be. american president pawned for putin. promote's soviet strategy on nato. because that's exactly what's

going on. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, july 24th. mika has the morning off but along with willie and me we have msnbc contributor mike barnacle. president of the council on foreign relations and author of the book "world in disarray," richard haas, heidi przybyla. also columnist for "the washington post" david ignatius. and jim vanda high. you know, willie, there are so many ways donald trump and his team try to distract, but there can be no mistake about what this week's, this month's, this year's most shocking headline really is politically, and that is that donald trump went to helsinki and he adapted, he adopted -- and don't believe your public servants on "morning joe."

you can listen to commentators on russian state television, and they will say that donald trump has adopted the soviet union's position on nato and that he's -- what he did in helsinki was nothing short of disregard u.s. national intelligence and also drive a wedge between our allies in europe that, well, helped us win a cold war. >> well, helsinki was a disaster and the white house knows it. the wheel that followed helsinki was a disaster, and the white house knows it. you had the president of the united states being pushed into a corner, forced to come out and say, yes, i agree with the intelligence community's assessment that russia interfered with our election and totally erasing in a tweet when he went back to the idea that the russia investigation is a hoax. we know how he truly feels. now they're putting out another shiny object, talking about taking away security clearance of various cia members.

interesting that comey doesn't have a security clearance. former deputy director andrew mccabe doesn't have a security clearance. there are questions of monetizing, which is preposterous i think it is fair to say, if you are talking about monetizing security clearances. but i think the other thing to throw in the mix too, joe, as i did, this idea that the white house and the president is offended by, quote, baseless accusations when donald trump, of course, was the ring leader of the birther movement beginning about six, seven years ago. >> yeah. and monetizing public service, mike barnacle, you can talk about the trump hotel, you can talk about all of the foreign countries and everybody else that are trying to curry favor with donald trump by making money, by handing him money. you can talk about how -- i mean we'll go to the list soon, but every time that there's a moment between china and the united

states, it seems that ivanka gets three or four more clearances for patents for her products in china. i mean this is -- you could write a book on this, and i'm sure somebody is writing a book on this, on how much donald trump is monetizing the presidency and how much his entire family is monetizing the presidency. and, most importantly, how much the corrupt republican party in washington, d.c. is helping them monetize the presidency. >> yeah, joe. i mean this is the first white house in the history of this republican that is largely filled with grifters, people grabbing what they can while they can grab it. but the largest story, the removal or threatened removal of security clearances from people like michael haden and john brennan and others is so small, so petty and so predictable, and it is the behavior of a man, mr. trump, who knows that the cops

are at the door and he continues, he continues, and he did it within the past few days, to stick his thumb in the eye of the american intelligence community, preferring to go with the russian theory rather than with what the american intelligence community has told him and warned him repeatedly. >> you know, willie, these headlines are ripped straight from the pages as they would say of "fox news." you know, if there are certain hosts on "fox news" that when there is damming news about donald trump, something that should really concern americans now, they'll do hillary clinton e-mail stories. of course, we were joking about this six months in. we're now 18 months in. they're still doing it. this whole smoke screen yesterday about taking security clearances away from former cia directors and other intel giants, i mean that came off of a "fox news" segment with rand paul who then, again as we said

yesterday morning, shamelessly said he was going to go over to the white house. and what was he going to talk about? not about vladimir putin influencing u.s. foreign policy. not about donald trump embarrassing himself in the eyes of the world in helsinki. not about the destruction of our 55, 60-year alliance with nato. instead, rand paul said that he was going over to the white house to try to strip john brennan and others of their security clearance. again, smoke screen, distract, try to get people's attention off of what is right in front of them. i really -- i'm quite confident that there aren't that many people out there that are still so stupid as to not know that they're being manipulated. >> well, we will talk about why some of these people have security clearances after they've left their positions in the administration in a moment, but let's get into one of the real stories, he joe. iran is reacting to president

trump's twitter threat of total destruction of their country, taking to the same social media platform. iranian foreign minister tweeted this. color us unimpressed. the world heard even harsher bluster a few months agoer an iranians have head them -- albeit more civilized ones -- for 40 years. we've been around millennia and seen fall of empires, including our own, which lasted more than the life of some countries. be cautious, he writes, echoing president trump's words in a previous tweet. yesterday president trump stood by his tweeted threat. >> mr. president -- with iran? >> not at all. not at all. >> this president put iran on notice. and as he made clear again last night, we will no longer tolerate iran sewiowing terror across the world and we will not tolerate threats against the united states. >> the president's responding to

iran and he's not going to allow them to continue to make threats against america. if anybody is inciting anything, look no further than tehran. >> what would it take to have direction negotiations between the president and president rouhani? >> i'm not getting into specifics and certainly not negotiate with the press. that would be a determination that the president would make. >> when the president pulled out of the jcpoa, he did not reveal an alternate plan to address iran's nuclear ambitions. he seemed to bank on economic sanctions being enough to get them back to the table. is that still his plan b? >> look, as we have said, the president's number one goal is to make sure iran doesn't get a nuclear weapon. and when we have specifics on that front we will let you know. >> does president trump plan on ordering to move any carriers or additional military resources to the region should iran continue to pose the threat that he alluded to in his tweet? i also have a follow-up question. >> i don't have any specific

announcements at this point. >> richard oz with the council of foreign relations, yesterday was iran's lucky day. they look back at history, as they mentioned. donald trump threatened north korea. then donald trump gave north korea everything they wanted. donald trump made his secretary of state fly halfway around the world to try to resolve a dispute with kim jong-un, clean things up in the press, and kim jong-un basically spit in our general direction and went out picking potatoes with potato farmers. so the iranians must be like getting the brinks trucks ready to back them up and get money from donald trump, because whenever he starts talking like this he's the sucker in the end. what should the rest of the world think of donald trump's opening round of bluster, which always ends in weakness and groveling on his part? >> joe, i don't think it is thought through because we don't have much of an iran policy other than economic policy. we're not willing to counter

them around the region, be it in syria or anywhere else. in the short run it is good for the remember jiem. the regime has been on the ropes somewhat, the economy is failing, the currency is plummeting. they didn't get the benefits they wanted from the nuclear agreement, but this strengthens them, for rouhani, for the foreign minister. this makes them look tough. people are rallying around them, so it is actually strengthening the regime. what you are seeing from the administration -- >> wait, hold on a second, richard. so what you're saying is that another rogue regime is strengthened by donald trump's bluster and misstep. i mean the north koreans have been waiting for what they got this past week for 45 years, and now you are saying the iranians were on the ropes. donald trump attacking the iranians with bluster again just strengthens them at home? >> i think it does. i think beerwe're hurting them

economically and helping them politically. the secretary of state on sunday gives a speech essentially calling for regime change in eye rain. saying the iranian regime is corrupt. suddenly the administration has discovered the value of human rights and democracy, at least in one country, which is iran. so that's a real shot across their bow. and then the president is tweeting in a manner that, again, makes it i think much more difficult for the opposition in iran to attack their government lest they look like they're doing the work of america. so there's a real disconnect between what the secretary of state is doing and what the president is tweeting. >> still ahead on "morning joe", pulling security clearances from former officials would restrict their access, but it would hardly keep them from speaking out. so what's the end game here for the white house? we'll talk about that next. but first, bill karins with a look at the forecast. hey, bill. >> good morning to you, willie. pictures out of pennsylvania yesterday showing the potential for flash flooding is very low. i mean it doesn't take much. it only took about an inch of

rain to cause problems like this. it has just been so wet over the last three days, that these torrential downpours that are moving in and out are leaving their marks. this was pennsylvania yesterday. we did it again last night and now we're very concerned with the washington, d.c. to baltimore area because that's where the heavy rain has set up. the radar this morning shows torrential rains in eastern north carolina through jacksonville, newburgh, greenville, washington areas. coming over the top of for foek/virginia beach and smack into washington, d.c. the red pole gons in central pennsylvania, one to the rest of washington, d.c. and the beltway. 32 million people impacted by this significant wet weather threat today, and this four to five inches of rain is possible from central new york, pennsylvania, d.c. and all of eastern north carolina. then we take our attention to the other story which is the extreme heat in the west. 42 million people under excessive heat warning or heat advisories. how hot will it get today?

yesterday 115. new record high in phoenix today, which should be close to tying the record high at 116. not much cooler in l.a. 97 degrees today. and our friends in the northwest are sweating it out in the 90s. each coast has its issues. washington, d.c., we're concerned with the amount of rainfall you've had and the amount you're going to get. carry that big-boy umbrella today. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. ♪ you always get the lowest price on our rooms, guaranteed?m let's get someone to say it with a really low voice. carl? lowest price guaranteed. what about the world's lowest limbo stick? how low can you go? nice one, carl. hey i've got an idea. just say, badda book. badda boom. badda book. badda boom. nice. always the lowest price, guaranteed. book now at choicehotels.com you might be missing something.y healthy.

your eyes. that's why there's ocuvite. ocuvite helps replenish nutrients your eyes can lose as you age. it has lutein, zeaxanthin and omega-3. ocuvite. be good to your eyes. to me, he's, phil micwell, dad.o golfer. so when his joint pain from psoriatic arthritis got really bad, it scared me. and what could that pain mean? joint pain could mean joint damage. enbrel helps relieve joint pain, helps stop irreversible joint damage, and helps skin get clearer.

enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma, other cancers, nervous system and blood disorders, and allergic reactions have occurred. tell your doctor if you've been someplace where fungal infections are common, or if you're prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for heart failure, or if you have persistent fever, bruising, bleeding, or paleness. don't start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. since enbrel, dad's back to being dad. visit enbrel.com and use the joint damage simulator to see how your joint damage could be progressing. ask about enbrel. enbrel. fda approved for over 15 years. with tough food, your dentures may slip and fall. new fixodent ultra-max hold gives you the strongest hold ever to lock your dentures. so now you can eat tough food without worry. fixodent and forget it.

are you ready to take your then you need xfinity xfi.? a more powerful way to stay connected. it gives you super fast speeds for all your devices, provides the most wifi coverage for your home, and lets you control your network with the xfi app. it's the ultimate wifi experience. xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome. not only is the president looking to take away brennan's security clearance, he's also looking into the clearances of comey, clapper, haden, rice and mccabe. the president is exploring the mechanisms to remove security clearance because they've politicized and in some cases monetized their public service with the security clearances, making baseless accusations of improper contact with russia or being influenced by russia

against the president is extremely inappropriate. and the fact that people with security clearances are making these baseless charges provides inappropriate legitimacy to the accusations with zero evidence. >> yeah, they're also looking to take away security clearances of dean rusk and millard fill more. the white house announcing yesterday president trump is considering taking away security clearances of several former intelligence officials. you just heard sarah sanders emphasizing those officials having, quote -- it is hard to say this with a straight face -- monetizing their public service and security clearances. now, it is true and it has been true that private sector -- the private sector does reward high level officials for their expertise and access after years of service, but, as we said, the keyword is after years of service. unlike this president and members of his administration,

who are doing it now! so let's go through the list, shall we? just this week the united states paid donald trump's scotland golf course $77,000 to stay for a weekend. that's more than a lot of teachers make in an entire year. the secret service paid at least $63,000 to trump's mayr-a-lago club in the span of a few months last year, and that's the same club that doubled its initiation fee. and they did that right after donald trump was elected president. that was where patrons could hear trump discussing foreign policy, just chattering on the patio about it. the usa today found dozens of lobbyists, contractors and others who make their living influencing the government, two-thirds of them playing on one of the days that donald trump was there. and in case you for got whose

course it was, the trump organization, which means donald trump, ordered golf tee markers bearing the presidential seal. an investigation by pro publica found at least $16 million was spent at the trump organization, managed and branded properties by his campaign, republican party organizations and government agencies since he announced his candidacy. the vast majority of the money, more than $13 million, put in the president's pocket by the trump presidential campaign. "politico" found by september of 2016 a trump-owned airline and properties had received more than $1.6 million from the secret service. then there is the web of foreign deals from which the president continues to benefit, and the blatant buck raking of a white house counsellor on the lawn saying, quote, go buy ivanka's

stuff. now, speaking of ivanka, the first daughter and presidential adviser got rare chinese trademarks approved on the night she was to have dinner with china's president. wow. that's serendipity. jared kushner's family business got loans after financial meetings with executives. the two earned $82 million in outside income last year. and then, of course, there is commerce secretary wilbur ross. he continues on in his role after admitting to holding on to stocks that he told the office of government ethics that he had divested from, including companies linked to russia and china. and carl icahn resigned from an advisory position ahead of a "new yorker" article alleged he pushed to change a rule with a negative impact on his energy investments. of course, the list could go on

and on. >> coming up on "morning joe", few recent issues have generated more debate than roe v. wade and obamacare. now both are back in the spotlight with the nomination of brett kavanaugh to the supreme court. that discussion straight ahead on "morning joe." ♪ is this at&t innovations? yeah, wow..this must be for one of our new unlimited wireless plans. it comes with a ton of entertainment options. great, can you sign for this? yeah. hey, uh.. what's in that one? that's a shark. new and only with at&t, you can get unlimited data, 30+ channels of live tv, and your choice of things like hbo or amazon music. more for your thing. that's our thing. visit att dot com.

you might or joints.hing for your heart... but do you take something for your brain. with an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish, prevagen has been shown in clinical trials to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life.

willie, let's take a sharp turn to domestic politics for a second. i was seeing a poll out last night from nbc news that certainly casts -- well, just reflects on the debate that's coming up on kavanaugh when he goes before the -- before the united states senate. roe v. wade, this nbc poll had support for roe v. wade at 71%. a majority of republicans now even say they don't believe that roe v. wade should be overturned. should roe be overturned? no, 71%. yes, 23%. willie, i know it has been the dream of conservatives for years, to get five judges on the court that will overturn roe v. wade. but that's a 45-year precedent.

that's a 71% approval number, and that's going to be a heavy, heavy lift for any judge going on to the court and a heavy lift for anybody that wants to go into the court with those sort of numbers. >> yeah, look at the number. you mentioned inside the numbers, republicans, among republicans, 52% support the supreme court ruling in roe v. wade. 76% among independents, and 88%, as you might expect, under democrats. so, heidi, as you sort of look at the whip count here as you travel around capitol hill and see who will vote for kaf now, who want, obviously republicans feel like they have the votes, but there are a couple of wiggle votes, susan collins and a couple of others. is this in peril for president trump, is there any chance kavanaugh is not seated here? >> we have been looking to collins and mr. cow sky and i think we knew the answer a week ago, we would expect them to

come out in strong opposition to whoever the candidate is going to be to signal it may be in peril. the one vote that looks in question is rand paul based on privacy concerns, but i don't think in the end it will pose any danger. i think he is trying to draw attention to what has been a longstanding issue. i think roe will be a huge urge during the confirmation hearings. i don't expect kavanaugh to answer the question, but we can look at his previous writings about kind of executive power. we can look at his previous writings about referring to abortion in a recent case he ruled on at, quote, unquote, abortion on demand, which is the language used by a lot of the anti-abortion crowd. but i think at the end of the day, willie, a lot of democrats know that the real risk to roe is not necessarily a direct overturning of roe but it is the up holding of the flurry of he

restrictions that are being passed at the state level which would essentially if allowed to stay in place render roe irrelevant in a lot of states. so you could just see big disparities in terms of state-level access to abortion. >> yeah. and, you know, when we look at the senators who may or may not support kavanaugh, jim vandehei, let's not put rand paul on this list every time. i'm going to vote against this, i'm going to vote against that, and he always ends up lining up behind the president. he always ends up supporting donald trump blindly. he's going to vote for kavanaugh. it is a joke for him to even -- any reporter that thinks he's not, really seriously should look into at profession. he's going to vote for kavanaugh. the question though is, jim, you've got two republicans and two democrats still trying to

figure this thing out. of course, we have talked about lisa murkowski and susan collins but you also have heidi heitkamp and joe manchin, and you almost get a sense those four will vote as a block one way or the other. they are all either going to vote against kavanaugh or all either vote for kavanaugh and provide each other a little bit of cover. >> yeah, and i think if you listen to with what they've had to say and you look at their past, it is much more likely they vote for him than they vote against him. it is much more likely he picks up democratic votes than it is that he loses republican votes. again, once you get into the hearings on this and he's getting grilled, he obviously knows the abortion question is coming, he obviously knows how to handle that in a public setting. so i don't think there will be enough out there to convince republicans, even moderate republicans to turn against him, and you have the democrats sitting in the state -- not just the two you mentioned. you have basically ten seats

occupied by democrats. if you look at trump's numbers in those states, they're basically what they were on election day. he remains relatively popular in those states. he remains probably a political asset to republicans in those states. so it is a lot of pressure to put on those numbers and they have to have a real justification for going against someone if people think he's a qualified candidate for the court. >> coming up on "morning joe", you often hear it said but he put neil gorsuch on the supreme court. that's the defense cited by some conservatives when asked why they're not criticizing president trump. we will have that debate next. "morning joe" is coming right back. you're headed down the highway

when the guy in front slams on his brakes out of nowhere. you do, too, but not in time. hey, no big deal. you've got a good record and liberty mutual won't hold a grudge by raising your rates over one mistake. you hear that, karen? liberty mutual doesn't hold grudges... how mature of them. for drivers with accident forgiveness liberty mutual won't raise their rates because of their first accident. liberty mutual insurance. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty ♪ booking a flight doesn't have to be expensive. just go to priceline. it's the best place to book a flight a few days before my trip and still save up to 40%. just tap and go... for the best savings on flights, go to priceline.

♪ keep it comin' love. if you keep on eating, we'll keep it comin'. all you can eat riblets and tenders at applebee's. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood.

best-selling author and host of america on crtv, eric bolling and msnbc contributor, conservative radio host and author of "how the right lost its mind" charlie sikes. we will have these two gentleman

go back and forth and going to give them a minute each. going to try to be fair. at the end they will hear the alarm from my phone. willie, this is no high-tech operation. gene rayburn i am not. they will hear the opening lines of "baba o'reilly" which is my telephone. >> let me put a little grist on the table. we will do our best to distill the argument. it says a consensus seemed to emerge among conservative critics of president trump to oppose him when his policies and practices are counter to conservative principles but give him credit when he stakes out an agreeable position on any issue that matters. as andy puts it, serve as the loyal opposition is necessary but join the cause when possible. andy warns of the costs of that approach, arguing for the need to assess trump's actions in total instead of in a piecemeal

fashion. he writes in part, if president trump has a mode us open rmodus, it is hiding his tax returns, meeting with putin alone, firing the fbi director investigating him, pitting staff against each other. our constant need to cordon off specific trump actions from others is a red flag waving in the wind. he continues, leaders choices produce credits and debits and those must be reconciled. the problem in the case of the trump administration is that its moral debits are skyrocketing, material and irreparable harm is done to our nation, institutions and our norms as well as to conservatism and the republican party. when the stakes are low, itemizing and compartmentalizing may be sensible, but given the enormity of the steaks placing a gold star on the president's occasional successful assignment is unwarranted and unwise. the road to hell is paved with a piecemeal situational approach to morality.

joe, take it away. >> eric, we will start with you. one minute. do you agree or disagree? >> how could i agree with that, joe? i mean i read that and was blown away. you know what the piece forgets to mention is there's a reason why donald trump is able to appoint a second supreme court justice, maybe a third in his term, who knows. it is because he won, joe. the reason why he won is because he was donald trump. don't forget, there were 17 conservative, very nice people, men and women, on the right side who ran to be the nominee and lost to donald trump. so the american people are conservative. the american people really voted for donald trump to win, to be their representative, and what has he done? he's brought a conservative supreme court going forward, at least as long as i will probably live, maybe our children will probably live. i will tell you that's why he is -- by the way, "weekly standard" bill kristol was an anti-trumper from the beginning. part of the never-trump movement. it is no surprise that "the weekly standard" does this but it is damaging.

that piece is more damaging to the gop and conservatism that donald trump ever will be. >> look at that. right in time. bob o'reilly, that's pretty good. the pressure is on you now. figure out how to stop this thing. thank you. the pressure is on you, charlie sikes, while i try to figure out how to stop "the who" from continuing. >> please don't. i love that stong. >> there's a problem. all right. go ahead. somebody get rid of this song. geez, look at that. i know how to get it started. i just don't know how to turn it off. all right. there you go. go ahead, charlie. >> okay. well, it is a faustian bargain and i appreciate the people who say, but gorsuch. the question is what is the price. in this bargain you get a lot of what you like but it turns out the price is more than you expect. the problem is that, you know, trumpism is making the conservative movement of the republican party, it is making it dumber, crueller, more dishonest, more disconnected

with reality, more extreme. i think they're going to pay a price. the republican party and the conservative movement need to be more than a culture personality and slogan on the hat. i think this is the balancing act. how many of your principles, how many lies are you willing to accept, how many outrages are you willing to enable and rationalize? what sort of behavior are conservatives willing to accept? >> so, charlie -- >> eric -- yeah. >> there it is. ♪ >> there you go. >> for me, eric, it was when donald trump very early on in december talked about a muslim ban, and that was in december of 2015. it was pretty open and shut for me. if you're going to stop 1.5 billion people from entering the united states just because of the god they worshipped, i can't be a part of that candidate or that party. for others it might have been charlottesville. for others it might have been when he was tweeting out fascist

videos. how do you look past that if you are a republican? >> joe, as you know what donald trump the candidate, what you call a muslim ban, actually put into play when donald trump the president -- not a muslim ban, it was moratorium. not a ban of dangerous people coming from dangerous places with failed governments. so that changed to the point where maybe it is a little bit palatable. >> but, eric. >> and the supreme court ended up okay with it. >> but eric. >> yes. >> in december 2015 donald trump wasn't talking about seven countries. he was talking about all muslims. my question then was, is this what germany looked like in 1932, 1933? donald trump, if he had his way, would have banned 1.5 billion people. he couldn't do it for constitutional reasons, but wasn't that a time for republicans to stand up and say, we want no part of this guy? >> they did. they had the opportunity to do that, joe, in november of 2016. they said en masse we want this

guy and we want this guy to represent us. what ended up being in practice, you talk about the muslim ban becoming a six or seven country ban that barack obama own state department put into play, he just enforced it. if anyone has a problem with it, then, yes, for me as a conservative, i will take that because it is in the true nature of keeping america safe, the intent of that what legislation or law would be. >> what about -- >> charlottesville -- >> listen, i captain defend charlottesville, other than it was a moment in -- listen, i agree with you, that was ugly. it was ugly what was going on in charlottesville and there's no time to stand up for that. >> what about when he denied knowing who david duke was and what the ku klux klan had done sunday before super tuesday? >> he's not a fluffy, soft president. >> that's racist though, isn't it? >> what's that?

>> isn't that racist? there's a difference between not being soft and fluffy and be -- >> fair enough, joe. fair enough to the general population it would look like it is racist. the man is not racist. he is not a racist. we know him. we can paint him with a racist brush if we don't like his policy, but that's not who the man is. when you dig deep into the guy, we know he is not racist. >> charlie? >> look, you know, part of it is what are you willing to accept. you know, how much of the racism, how much of the xenophobia, how much of the anti-muslim bias, how much of the treatment of when. i remember when conservatives said character matters. i remember when conservatives would have united behind, you know, a hard line on the russian attack. if barack obama had behaved the way donald trump behaved last

week, eric bollings head would have exploded. >> i think barack obama leaned over and said, don't worry when i get my second term, i will have more leeway to deal with you. >> and we criticized. >> charlie -- >> can you let me finish? we criticized that. it is the reversal of the position. it is the reversal of positions on free trade, on american leadership, on character, on corruption. because this cultive personality, look, i understand that donald trump won. i understand you are getting a lot of what you want, but the transformation of the conservative movement, what he is doing to american lit cal culture. >> charlie, you're right. >> we're paying for this. >> there's a new conservative movement in town and elections have consequences and trump is -- >> hey, hey, one at a time. let's go to willie with the next question. >> charlie, i want to follow up and look at some of the data we've seen lately. the argument you are making and the argument "the national review" is making may be compelling to a lot of 'em about, it is not compelling to

republicans. donald trump is rivaling george w. bush after 9/11 in terms of popularity within his own party. do you think it will be persuasive to anyone? >> it was the weekly standard. there's no question about it, the republican party is donald trump's party. there's no request about it. those of you who are conservative trump critics are very much in the wilderness, no question about it. this is a party that has moved from being, you know, the party of ideas to being the party of "fox & friends." i understand that. it is one of the reasons i'm making the appeal to conservatives, you know, who are you? are you willing to basically take the winds that you want but at least draw a line and say we're not this? with every passing week it will become harder for republicans to say, you know, we're not looking the other way on sexual harassment and sexual misconduct. we're not the party that looks the other way on racist dog whistles. we're not the party that accepts this dishonesty or appeasement of the russians, because with every passing week that's who

they are and that's a real long-term existential danger to the republican party and conservative movement. >> do you know what is not an existential danger to the republican party. low unemployment for african-americans, for women. across the board record lows. business attitude going forward is positive. let's not forget one thing, charlie? it is not just the supreme court justices that donald trump, the republican who won, who no one else could beat hillary, won, is putting in place all of the federal judges as well. if you are a conservative you have to say, i like what he's doing on the federal judge and supreme court level or, guess what, you're not conservative. >> all right, guys. thank you so much. round two, we really appreciate it. sorry for our sort of -- "the who" on the loop but we'll get it -- willie, we will get it together for the third segment of sykes versus bolling. we will call that one the

thriller in manila and get it right. >> we owe "the who" a lot of publishing money because you paid it throughout the entire segment. the piece in "the weekly standard" not "the national review." coming up next, it is not just audio tapes that michael cohen has of donald trump. it is years of firsthand knowledge of the president's actions. what are the chances investigators will hear all about it? we will talk about that next with emily jane fox on "morning joe." ♪ out here in the fields s this is not a bed. it's a high-tech sleep revolution.

the sleep number 360 smart bed intelligently senses your movement and automatically adjusts. so you wake up ready to run the world. the new sleep number 360 smart bed, from $999.

the smoother the skin, the more comfortable you are in it. and now there's a new way to smooth. introducing new venus platinum. a premium metal handle boosts control... to reveal up to 100% smooth skin. venus .

nbc news has learned that 12 audio recordings seized in that raid on michael cohen's office and hotel room have been handed over now to federal prosecutors. we know at least one contained the voice of donald trump discussing a playoff to playboy model karen mcdougal shortly before the election in 2016. attorney/client privilege had been granted but was waived by cohen and the president's legal teams. joining us is senior reporter at "vanity fair" and msnbc contributor emily jane fox. she has new reporting on the president's fractured relationship with his former fixer. one person familiar with cohen's thinking tells emily, quote, it's not the recording that's valuable, it's the back story. another person close to cohen said, quote, when michael says he wants the truth out there and that the truth is not the president's friend, he's not talking about marginal issues. he's talking about core issues at the heart of the mueller probe. and cohen himself reportedly told friends, quote, if they think for a second that the efforts to discredit me aren't

known to me, they are sadly mistaken. did they think i was just going to roll over and die? emily jane fox joins us now. what is the back story? we know about the sort of broad strokes of the tape, that they were discussing a playoff to a playboy model, but what's the back story that has people concerned in trump's world? >> i think that's the million dollar question and the not knowing is probably the most concerning of them. i guess donald trump knows. the president knows what the back story is. and perhaps that's why we see him so obviously distancing himself from michael cohen. it's not just the president who is distancing himself. there is a belief in cohen land that jared kushner is part of the operation to distance himself. that don jr., rudy giuliani, they all have this strategy, as cohen has been telling people, it's the "d" strategy, the distance and discredit and deflect some of the attention of what's going on with the russia story by focusing on

discrediting michael cohen. and what's interesting here is people around cohen are now starting to say sure, this recording exists. it may be damning for the president. but what's most damning is what has yet to come out and it's the back story behind what that recording represents. >> joe. >> so emily, any thoughts on whether -- from people close to michael cohen, any thoughts on who he's trying to send smoke signals to? is he trying to send smoke signals to trump or is he giving up on that? is this now him messaging the southern district of new york? make a deal? let's make a deal, i've got the dirt you need? >> i think the time of him trying to get messes to the president is over. that phase of trying to work things out between the two of them, that's done. there's no sense in -- from any of my reporting this is a bid to get a pardon. this is someone who is very

clearly expressed that his loyalty is now to his family. he has said it's to the country as well. what he's looking for is to move into the next phase. it's not to get back into donald trump's orbit. he hasn't been charged with anything. he's not going to get a pardon. his mind is how do i get to the next phase to get my life as back to normal as possible? if that is possible? >> emily, can you give us a then and now assessment of the relationship between michael cohen and donald trump jr.? >> you know, the first time i interviewed michael which was about almost exactly a year ago, he talked like don jr. was his brother, like don jr. was little brother who he expect a tremendous amount of time with. i think don jr. was the only one in the family who he actually socialized with. their relationship was very close. he also had a front row seat to many of the business dealings

that don jr. was engaged in. now they haven't talked in more than a year. they've no communication. from people around, from my reporting, he thinks that don jr.'s part of this strategy to discredit him. this evolution in a year is staggering. and what michael cohen may know, i don't think it's making anyone in trump world sleep soundly. >> do you think he knows more about mr. trump, the president's behavior, or does he know about donald trump's business? >> i think that for ten years michael cohen had a window into everything that happened within the trump organization. he had a window into what the president was doing in some of his business dealings. what the children were doing in his business dealings. this is a man who knows a lot and a man who feels he's been hung out to try. >> his attitude appears to be about this recorded phone call discussing a potential payment to the playboy models.

number two, so what, it just shows that the president -- that michael cohen in fact had authorization to make payments on his own, without even consulting with the president of the united states and then candidate donald trump. is the white house worried about what is on the other 12 tapes or all the other millions of documents seized from cohen's office? or when you talk to them really on the phone, are they confident about this? >> originally, said to me, we're not worried here. that was his attitude. very dismissive. look, they have seen all documents. they have listened to all the recordings. so what was seized from cohen's hotel room and office and apartment, they're aware of, but they don't know what was not seized. they don't know what is michael cohen's memory, what other notes he have that perhaps the government doesn't have in his possession. so they project add tremendous amount of confidence but they're not going to tell a reporter they're not confident about what they have. there's a lot of unknowns still

about what michael cohen knows that was not collected by the government. >> emily jane fox, as always, great reporting. deep inside michael cohen's world. by the way, her excellent book, born trump, is out now. good to see you. >> thank you so much. >> joe, final thoughts this morning. >> you know, let's end where we began, you've got a president -- we've reviewed it over the last three hours -- that's doing whatever he can to distract from the fact he went to helsinki and was viewed, according to european papers, as putin's poodle. that's what one british newspaper called him. and that he adopted according to even correspondence on russian state television, the old soviet line toward nato. that's something really that all of the -- all cap tweets is not going to erase and it's going to be worrying a lot of americans and a lot of american's allies across the globe for a long time to come. what about you? final thoughts? >> i would just add in, as the president continues to downplay the russian influence, as he

continues to play footsie with vladimir putin, we got another story today that russian hackers directed by the russian government made it all the way inside american utility companies and found, perhaps on a dry run, that they could shut down power grids and cause widespread blackouts in this country. so as dan coats and other intelligence officers said, the lights are blinking red. >> and are to include the fact that the president of the united states, despite all of the evidence that's on the table from our intelligence community, continues with his tweets and behavior and language nearly every day to diminish and demean the fib, the cia, the nsa and rather choose the russian intelligence services led by vladimir putin. >> i would just add in one tweet from the president, i won't read the whole thing, but the first line reads, quote, tariffs are the greatest, with an exclamation point. that from the president of the united states. that does it for us this morning. we'll see you back here tomorrow morning that the time.

for now, stephanie ruhle picks up our coverage. >> tariffs are the greatest, that sounds like a bumper sticker or maybe a tattoo. good morning, everyone. i'm stephanie ruhle. we start with access denied. threatening to revoke the security clearance of multiple intelligence officials. funny, it's those who criticized president trump. but is it all politics? >> they politicize and, in some cases, monetize their public service and security clearances. >> please. and motion granted, more court action today for former trump compare chairman paul manafort. and this morning, the names of five potential witnesses who have been granted immunity are now revealed. and tale of the tapes. a dozen audiotapes seized from president trump's former attorney and fixer michael cohen now turned over