that is our show. one programming update. we announced michael avenatti to be on the show tonight, and he got stuck in court. he will join us another night. "hardball" with chris matthews is up next. pay off. let's play "hardball." >> i am chris matthews in washington. release of the taped conversation between president and his long time fixer lawyer, michael cohen. getting a glimpse of his true self. the tape is real. but we do not know whether it has been altered or not. let's listen. >> i need to open up a company

for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend david so i am going to do that right away. i come up, i spoken to allen about how to set the whole thing up with funding. >> -- >> yes. >> all of the stuff. you never know -- correct. i am all over that. i spoke with allen about that. >> listen, what financing? >> no, no, i got -- >> the financing. it was cohen's team that made that public. his lawyer, lanny davis says cohen is trying to reset his life as not being donald trump's bullet taker or worse, a

punching bag for donald trump's it was strategy where he takes the bullets. president trump denies the affair but karen mcdougal says it is was a real relationship. ami, the parent company of the "national enquirer" had already purchased the story. the "national enquirer" purchased the story for $150,000 in order to conceal it. not to print it. a process called catch and kill. last while on fox, denying that the president did anything wrong. >> this is, i don't know of any attempts in this category of crime they are looking at. in any event, i don't think anyone can suggest that this

represents anything where the president did anything wrong. >> let me suggest it. the president lashed out at cohen tweeting what kind of a lawyer would tape a client. so sad. is this a first? never heard of it before. why was the tape so abruptly terminated cut, while i was presumably saying positive things. let's watch, this is a press conference with no press questions. >> thank you very much. thank you. >> did michael cohen betray you? >> thank you, very much. thank you. >> mr. president, are you worried about what michael cohen is going to say to prosecutors. >> thank you. >> press briefing on the rose

garden, the president took no questions there either. cnn reporting. while there, she was informed that she would be barred from attending a press availability at the rose garden. betsy woodrow. >> let's talk about this. so we hear the president of the united states talk about making a pay off to this company. the pruurpose of the pay off. get her to give up her story. give up rights and giving it to

anybody else so they can kill the story. that fall, when he is candidate for president, to kill the story, kill the bad news to protect him as a candidate, what is the significance to it. >> the white house lied about it. they talk about the idea that the president and his company could get hit by a bus and might change his mind about owning the rights to this woman's story so therefore they could have considered buying the rights themselves. the second issue is whether it amounts to a campaign violation. lanny davis said in an interview with msnbc news that he believes that is what happened. a payment made to squelch the story. the same way john edwards was

charged with felonies. edwards was acquitted. but this fact pattern is more incriminating because it was made right before the election. and it was about protecting trump. >> in those days, john edwards, he was getting help from a wealthy woman, who paid for the pay off, filmographer i think was the title. trump did all of this and paying money to shut up somebody, to help his campaign. it is him contributing to his own campaign, which under a constitutional ruling, you are allowed to give the money in the world. >> the law says the public has a right to know who is giving, even if it is you the candidate and how much you gave. you are right, the bottom line

is if this is all they ever get on donald trump, somebody would call this a chicken feed, using a different word. if there is a criminal conspiracy to violate campaign finance laws, that could be an important situation. >> times have changed under trump and not for the better. i guess there was a time we would all be thrilled in a negati negative way to hear the president on the phone with his lawyer to pay off. go back to clinton, go back to kennedy, wherever, wouldn't be shocked to know this kind of thing happened in the past. but we have a tape, the president's own voice, talking about funding, cash versus checks, all of the details of a

criminal conspiracy. >> it is shady, unseemly, and probably legal on the part of trump if all he is doing is paying hush money to people like karen mcdougal and stormy daniels. what would be a criminal issue is if in fact that is to aid the campaign, which the tape make clearly it is. >> how does it make it, it was a campaign contribution to shut her up. >> very concerned about the period before the election. cohen is now an agent of the campaign. and no longer just mr. fix it, and mr. trump's lawyer. he is making representations on behalf of the campaign. the other thing that worries

president trump is other members have been brought in. the cfo of the trump organization is implicated in trying to set up this shell corporation. both of these people may not only have exposure for conspiracy to violate the campaign law, but open up the pandora's box to the trump organization finances. pretty sure president trump does not want a prosecutor to go anywhere near his finance. >> ami, the company that owns "national enquirer" acts as a political reporter. they were contributing basically by helping trump out. that could pose legal problems.

ami, the close company of "national enquirer." sources tell when pecker took over he imposed a moratorium on negative stories about mr. trump. throughout016 presidential campaign, ami t you get it from lanny davis. or you get a transcript of it, this one would you think is being forth coming. i can remember that nixon tried to give a big pile of transcripts. if you give the tape out, it seems like you are closer to the truth. your thoughts. >> without a doubt. that is not to say you can't doctor audio.

>> intelligible if you don't like a line or two. was it edited. >> i can't speak to that. if you are trying to project confidence, releasing a tape is stronger than releasing transcript. needing to slow things down, look at a transcript, it doesn't look right. >> what do you think that most americans would think when they hear the president is talking to his fixer lawyer in this conversation. comfort with the conversation. >> what is striking is how cavalier the president's tone is in his audio. he talks about paying off a tabloid company to cover up a story related to his alleged affair to a playmate. >> you said alleged. he knows it happens apparently.

>> talks about it n as an average day to donald trump. that is what makes the audio so striking and significant. it speaks to the way trump does business. imagine if president obama had something like this, it would have been impeachment. >> he would have been gone. >> reince priebus dismissed it as nothing special. >> i was one of the people who would freak out over every one of these stories and over time what i figured so out to the president is nothing sticks to him and what i found out about his character is he is a person who is able, which i am not one of these kinds of people, that

can handle 50 total massive bullets coming at you. >> i don't want you to be a media critic because that is not your role, and neither is it mine. there he is, where they are bragging together in avoiding responsibility of behavior. they are raving about his sneakiness and doesn't get caught. supposedly that is a journalistic conversation. >> one of the reasons nothing sticks to him is he has a white ring media apparatus that tells you black is white every night. what is interesting about the tapes, nixon might have survived watergate if not for the tapes. the tapes were brutal unvarnished.

machinations. it may affect how these middle of the road people start to look. >> he set up the tapes, i am sure he thought about the rest of the life, why did i tape myself. the lawyer fixer preparing himself. but ended up today being here on te television. thank you, betsy woodrow. thank you paul butler. thank you ken delaney. what was discussed in the big first meeting in helsinki. is he, the secretary of state in the trump loop. making extreme campaign ad and he won. does the democratic candidate

have a chance. also, a late afternoon truce on one front. the president still wants to prop up u.s. farmers. one member of his party say that is what communist do. cnn is served up on melania's tv. he is trying to make sure the tv tvs are only on with his favorite network. it is not us. place to start, advanced oils for those hard-working parts. fuels that go further so drivers pump less. improving efficiency is what we do best. energy lives here.

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welcome back to "hardball." the president planned to meet again with vladimir putin here in washington this fall. the white house rescheduled the potential visit holding it off until next year. that was a big decision after a quickie decision last week. national security advisor john bolton blamed the special counsel. the president believes that the next bilateral. he talks like trump. it is not clear who ultimately made the decision. and raises new questions. then less than a week later

pushes it back until sometime next year. it comes after continuing to struggle after the performance. secretary state mike pompeo appeared enable to explain the president's behavior to the satisfaction of bob corker. let's watch that back and forth. >> i would love to have some insights into you as to for instance at the helsinki conference to create an equivalence to what putin is saying that is shocks people. is there a strategy to this? what is it that calls as the president purposely, purposely create distrust in these institutions and what we are doing. >> senator, i disagree with most of what you said. somehow there is this idea that

this administration is free floating. president trump is directing each of these activities. >> i notice you are not responding to what i am saying. >> i think i responded to everything that you said, senator. >> no, you didn't. >> the question is why is the president taking the side of the kgb guy putin against our own intelligence people. the american public appear to have a hard to comprehending the behavior. a new quinnipiac poll. >> joining me now, heidi

przybyla. the president somehow compromised to put it lightly by something that putin has in his bag over there. what do you make of that? >> not surprised by that poll. one of the things that jumped out at me is even about a fifth of republicans think the russians have something incriminating on president trump. we have so far been unable . you played the excerpt. we have reporting that suggests that on multiple occasions when the administration was taking a

hard line on russia, president trump opposed it. once he learned how many diplomats were being dispelled from the country. all of these ways which he has repeatedly demonstrated. >> to make your point today, i think i heard pompeo who does impress me said today he agreed with the chairman of the can committee, bob corker that they should be looking into tougher sanctions against russia. >> the way the president describes how he has reacted to russia, the tougher he has ever been. people may remember the u.n. ambassador. there are all these ways in which president trump is doing separate from the administration

and he tries to take credit for it. >> the administration has been reluctant or unable to say. the need for secrecy and contentious back and forth with senator bob menendez. >> have the president told you what he and president putin discussed. >> presidents have a prerogative who they choose to be in meeting. >> did he tell putin that our relaxed sanctions. >> senator, what you need to conduct, your appropriate role, i will provide you today. i understand the game you are playing. >> i don't appreciate you characterizing my questions. my question is to get to the truth. we don't know what the truth is.

>> let's talk about this. the president hasn't apparently told his secretary of state what went on for two hours. >> he says that he did. if that is a specific question, now you are telling me you got a full debriefing from the president. yes. good. pompeo would not answer it. and one of the things that he did in addition to saying we are not changing policy was continuely going back to the president's statement. for every single one of those statements, there is ten more calling it a witch hunt, calling it a hoax and standing beside vladimir putin and calling our own country foolish and denigrating the u.s. intelligence agency. he is telling the american people that he disagrees with their own eyes.

he disagrees with what all of us saw in helsinki and disagrees that we are all adults and we see for ourselves. >> i think a straight reporter will notice, if you watch anything about the body language and the way putin came springing out on the platform, he was in heaven. he jumped up on that stage. he got a swagger. he loves this moment. where the other guy, he looks like he has had a hard time. and that mischievous grin. he looks like he is specimirkin. i got this guy by the shorts. i own this guy. 55% of independent voters say i think the guy has something on

that big guy to the right. >> he looked defer rential. >> the great country, along this gas station with an army over there called russia. and that guy acted like he was the big shot. >> hard to explain. we don't know what happened. president trump says he wants to be friends with russia and part of his instinct is to do the opposite of what everybody tells him to do. so part of it is instinct. but runs contrary to everything we have seen from president trump. and we lack an information. >> if you live by the river,

make friends with the alligators. but this doesn't make sense. phil thank you. heidi przybyla. >> political ad shows him wielding a shot gun and vowing to personally roundup undocumented immigrants in the back of his truck. and he is probably the front runner down there for the race. this is "hardball."

welcome back to "hardball." republican voters in georgia sided with president trump's pick. there he is, defeated lieutenant governor by a landslide, by 39 points. ran a series of provocative ads. >> i am so conservative, i blow up government spending. i own guns. that no one is taking away. my chainsaw is ready to rip up regulations. i got a big truck. just in case i need to roundup criminal illegals and take them home myself.

yup, i just said that. i am brian kemp. if you want a politically incorrect conservative, that's me. >> trump congratulated him. wow, 69-30. kemp goes on to face stacy abrams. she could become the first african american governor. jason, thank you for joining us. first of all, let's talk about the republican guy. you know, you hear people talking, i guess people in the far right, who talk like that. but not a person who is running for governor of a state who talks about quote, criminal

illegals. that is all they are, and criminal because they didn't have documents and going to round them up like citizen arrest. little extreme. your thoughts about likability. >> it is tough for me as a georgian watching because it is embarrassing. he is pandering to a tiny group of people. the first thing i want to say, it doesn't reflect my state where i live. you are going to see regular mainstream georgians feel that is unacceptable. and it is going to leave the door open for abrams to walk through it. >> the president had to deal with that in georgia as lieutenant governor. how do you compare these two fellows, this guy, and that guy.

>> kemp is from a different era. >> is he as bad as lester maddox? is he? >> no. i think brian kemp is pandering in a terrible way. i don't know what is worse, to believe what he is saying. but i am not going to compare him. >> there was a new fawn for a state lawmaker, state representatives resigned today. in the episode spencer was pranked in shouting racial slurs over and over again. >> now i am going to teach you how to use your buttocks to

intim sta intimida intimida intimidate isis. >> go. if you want to win, show some skin. >> okay. >> she is to me. now, try to touch me. >> i will touch you with my buttocks. you better drop your gun or i will touch you. >> that was the people's choice for state senator until today. >> laook, i am tired of my stat being the butt end of jokes. he already lost in the primary, but i was in the georgia legislator, and there are good

people down there. i hope we get to spend some time talking about stacy, because she is the kind of candidate, i'm telling you, you put her out there against these folks and it is not going to be close. >> jason carter, good luck with your race. up next reality check. president trump was less than pleased to find a tv on other than fox news. he is controlling our minds. you are watching "hardball."

it is about truth. so if mr. president trump lied about wood versus would not and what he said to putin, he lied about denying that he knew anything about the mcdougal issue. this is about truth versus lying

and donald trump is going to be done in by the truth. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was lanny davis discussing the tape. on the tape, the two men discuss buying the rights to kill the story about an alleged affair trump had with a playboy model. let's bring in tonight's roundtable. eugene scott, sabrina saddici. the whole question . the cover up rng t, the pay off kill. how do you mr. president, explain that tape. >> he is going to deny it and say he wasn't addressing what clearly appears he was

addressing. >> what is he talking about. >> what did he want pastor burns or pastor scott to go to. >> cash or check. >> he certainly said cash. that is what we think of. >> cash is the way the dealers do that. >> the white house has been remarkably inconsistent in terms of what the president knew about these payments. also of course the payment michael cohen made. and the i shall question is what did the president know and when did he know it. now the question is you have a pattern submerged where close allies of the president or people directly work for him. what was the president's involvement in the practice. >> richard nixon telling chief

of staff to cover up. he was caught leading the cover up. here we have the president leading the cover up. >> this is no the tht that. >> this has to do with sex instead of break in. >> one of the more interesting things here is the different denials. giuliani said trump said don't pay with cash. meanwhile, saying he may have been talking about cash, but using it as a powerpoint of financing. all over the place on this. >> one campaign which is led by lanny davis, puts out a tape recording. and the other put out a transcript. mane while, president trump the president of the european commission -- resolving trade disputes. >> we agreed to work together

towards zero tariffs, zero nontariff barriers and zero subsidies on nonauto industrial goods. work to reduce barriers in increase trade. >> this comes -- that was the key phrase, soybean. this came after the time the trump administration announced a $12 billion bailouts. it didn't sit well to some republicans. sabrina, it seems like he is showing the heat. >> those who hit hardest by his tariffs are those who voted for him. and a lot of republicans have penned the proposal.

what are they going to do about it? senate voted to limit the tariffs but not binding. require congressional approval. >> when i watch that press conference today, i kept thinking back to two weeks ago where the president came back afterwards and said all of these chr countries are going to be chipping in more. macron from france denied there was any agreement here. it was all a bunch of we are starting a dialogue. trying to change the subject of what happened yesterday. >> more evidence of trump's love to all things fox.

when the president boarded trump raged at his staff for violating a rule that the white house entourage should be tuned to fox. white house official confirmed that tuning the tvs to fox is standard operating procedure. >> the first lady spokeswoman responded today that she can watch whatever tv she wants. >> the president of the united states heard the first lady's tv was turned to cnn. so he had it changed. >> even for members of his own family, that says a lot about what kind of bubble of information. >> this isn't exactly organic farming. these people are cultivated with thought. >> this was the latest example of melania trump saying i am

going to do whatever i want to do. >> like the coat? >> like the troublesome she put saying if i want to watch cnn, that i i am going to watch. >> she would be a great guest on "hardball." >> the president can only live within his own eco chamber. the white house barring reporters from events as he was telling people yesterday don't listen to or believe what you hear in the news. part of this broader authoritarian view that he has of the media. he is now normalizing the attacks made on the freedom of the president. tries to discredit the media and the institutions that are a key credit to this democracy. >> also watching, big brother is always talking. >> could be happening but he needs to know that people are

watching him as well. >> thank you. you turned the tables. up next, these three will tell me something i don't know. be right back.

>> in a combative interview, sean spicer. at one point the interviewerer confronted spicer about his

first press gaggle by the size of the crowd let's watch this. >> it became a joke, something that defined you. you joked about it when you presented the emmy awards. you have corrupted discourse for the entire world by going along with these lies. >> i'm sorry, emily, you act as though everything began and ended with that. taking no accountable of the false stories. >> only to communicate them to the public. just like a cipher. we'll be right back.

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letting us know how women view trump. nearly 60% of suburban women which was a group that got on board in 2016, disprove of them. >> the democrats this fall will get the vote that hillary thought she was getting. >> a federal judge in maryland allowed the clause, first -- >> what was the case they are looking at? >> they are looking at basically the trump hotel and whether this constitutes the president doing business. >> decided to reserve a bunch of rooms. >> is he still enriched by it and is that a conflict that rises to a constitutional level.

>> arafat used to do that in ramallah. you had to rent a whole floor. >> tomorrow is the deadline to reunite families. and a quick update on the numbers. the administration has reunited 1,012 parents with their children, or families. but as many as 914 families will not be reunited by tonight's deadline. >> how many people lost cause and never found the mom. >> 463 parents deported without their children and led to believe that they had no choice. >> the toddler, you put them on a plane to guatemala or some place like that. >> the administration doesn't

know how exactly it will proceed how they will keep these children in some of the facilities. trying to track down some of these other parents. >> we are learning a lot and some of it bad. eugene scott, aaron blake, sabrina. ♪ a hotel can make or break a trip. and at expedia, we don't think you should be rushed into booking one. that's why we created expedia's add-on advantage.

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trump watch wednesday

july 25, 2017. i grew up hearing people in communist countries only heard news from the government. didn't trump remember hearing about that. and how could he allow a -- didn't thomas jefferson were it left to me that we should have a government without newspapers or news without government. freedom of the press. doesn't that bother supporters, especially trump supporters. so afraid of press freedom of criticisms that he is trying to

smother it. shouldn't the american citizen be able to listen and decide the truth for themselves. thanks for being with us. all in with chris hayes starting right now. >> michael cohen's secret recording is out. tonight what we are learning about the trump tape and the president's pr effort to contain the fallout. as the second putin summit is called off -- >> it's the president that calls his people to have concerns. >> what we learned today about what the president agreed to in the first meeting. plus, 104 days out -- >> i stand for our national