my thanks to karine, jennifer, eugene. that does it, i'm nicolle wallace. katy tur is here for chuck. if it's monday, it's like a ross between a hurricane and a ship that's run aground. good evening, i'm katy tur in new york in for chuck todd. welcome to "mtp daily." are you all ready for this? the president's lawyer himself is denying the president himself hacked into the dnc and the clinton campaign, which is strange because no one has accused the president of hacking into the dnc or the clinton campaign. the president's lawyer is now denying that the president himself met with a group of russians at trump tower, which is strange because no one has

accused the president of meeting with a group of russians at trump tower. the president's lawyer is now denying that there was a meeting to talk strategy ahead of the trump tower meeting, which is strange, because no one has mentioned anything about a strategy session ahead of the trump tower meeting. so what the heck is going on? well, the president's lawyer is arguing that colluding with russia isn't a crime. which is strange, because the president has been telling us for over a year now that there was not any collusion. the president's lawyer, rudy giuliani, is also arguing that there isn't a single stitch of evidence of collusion. which is strange, because that's just not true, and it's even less true now than it's ever been. guys, you've got to wonder if rudy giuliani's bizarre string of claims today is a reaction to a string of rapid-fire developments, all of which raise legitimate questions about collusion. the president's long-time attorney is now suggesting that

the president lied when he said he didn't know that his campaign met with russians after being told those russians would have dirt on hillary clinton. that comes after the white house spent the last two weeks trying to clean up the mess after the president basically covered for russia's crimes while standing next to the guy who ordered those crimes be committed. >> the probe is a disaster for our country. it's ridiculous. it's ridiculous what's going on with the probe. i have president putin, he just said it's not russia. i will say this, i don't see any reason why it would be. >> that happened just days before we learned that the president's own deputy attorney general signed off on an fbi court document that said the fbi believes that former trump campaign advisor carter page has been the subject of targeted recruitment by the russian government. the fbi believes that page has been collaborating and conspiring with the russian

government. and that happened just days after the justice department said that russian hackers sprang into action after candidate trump said this. >> i will tell you this, russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. i think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press. >> i remember that. the justice department also said that a persona cr a created by russian hackers was communicating with someone we now know is long-time trump advisor roger stone. and all of what i just mentioned are new developments, which only add to the previous suspicions about the trump campaign's contact with russia and the president's effort to undermine the investigation into his campaign's contact with russia. guys, at the end of the day, perhaps the only thing more suspicious than these developments is giuliani's sudden pen chant to denies

things that nobody has alleged. jake sherman is a senior writer with politico, zerlina maxwell is the director of programming at sirius xm and susan percio is a republican strategist. guys, it's not just me, it's also fox news which he went on to try and clear things up. listen to harris faulkner. >> why do you feel it's necessary to get on the record with things that haven't been asked yet or that are not public yet? what's coming? >> well, when i thought -- when i thought -- when i thought it was going to be published, i wanted to get out in front of it. >> so apparently he thinks that there's a report coming. that report still hasn't surfaced, which is interesting because he's been on tv talking about it all day. you know rudy giuliani, why is he denying things? >> they did that when they thought the payment was going to come out to stormy daniels. and they did show that they know sometimes things are in the

works. it is bizarre, though, because like you said, this isn't something that's coming out in a required report, this is just a potential news story, which we know if it's not to their advantage, they will immediately push back on and discredit or try to discredit. all i know is that if rudy giuliani is doing this, it means that they have a reason to be afraid and they are trying to muddle the waters. >> yeah, but if you -- i say hey, zerlina, do you like hamburgers an you respond, i didn't rob the bank! i would say did you rob a bank? >> they started out we didn't talk to the russians. no, that's crazy. well, we talked to the russians. we talked very benign things. then it's we talked to them to get dirt on hillary clinton, which would be the definition of collusion under our current understanding. but now they're saying that's not a crime. an i think that we've -- move the goal posts in a very intentional way. but what he's doing is setting the stage in the pr realm, when

the legal realm is working every single day and it won't matter what he says on television. >> now speaking of moving the goal posts and saying collusion is not a crime, listen to rudy giuliani trying to claim collusion is not a crime. >> i've been sitting here looking at the federal code trying to find collusion as a crime. >> it's not. >> i don't even know if that's a crime, colluding about russians. the hacking is the crime. the hacking is the crime. >> that certainly is the original crime. >> well, the president didn't hack. >> of course not. >> he didn't pay them for hacking. >> also the federal prosecutor would use the term coordination, not collusion, if you want to get technical. >> but my question and i mean this genuinely and i don't know the answer to this and i wonder if anyone does. i'm not sure if this is a strategy or this is just rudy giuliani speaking. and i don't mean that in a demeaning way to giuliani, it's not clear to me what they were trying to achieve. usually in politics you can look at a set of events and say,

okay, this person is trying to move a conversation in this direction for this purpose. so it seems a little obscure, i don't understand where are they're trying to go. >> is it a pr strategy or is it a legal strategy? >> is he a lawyer or a spokesman -- >> we have michael avenatti, lanny davis and rudy giuliani out there just talking away. i don't think any of them are actually coming up with a cohesive legal strategy for what they need to do because they want to win the pr battle. >> lan ny is not allowed to talk. >> whatever we're talking about now, i have a feeling robert mueller has already been over that. >> but rudy giuliani is acting like a squirming coil an going all over the place. he's saying donald trump never hacked the dnc. no one ever claimed that.

he's also saying that donald trump didn't attending t the me with russians. take a listen to what else he said. >> this russian meeting, he wasn't there. he wasn't at the meeting. he did not participate in any meeting about the russia transaction. >> the president. >> the president did not. >> what russia transaction? >> no one ever alleged any of the things he's talking about. >> no, but is there a transaction? is there now a transaction? >> the whole campaign, you know that, this is just donald trump via -- channeling through rudy giuliani. >> but doesn't this make it so that the senate judiciary committee or the senate intel committee will have more reason to say, you know what, i've got to get all these people pack in front of us and only extend the investigation and the news around the investigation within the senate. slow things up for the rest of the legislative season? >> i don't think so. >> no? >> feinstein wants to see him, don junior. >> they don't have the majority and so don't set the rules.

i think republicans think we need to just move on from this because this is what we've been doing for almost two years now. so i don't think this sparks some sort of new -- >> but when the pressure starts to build and it's out there, out there, out there, and there's denials and contradictions, it's hard -- >> but the senate has been so respected in how it's handled it. the house has been a mess. >> i'm not talking about the house. i'm talking about the senate. it hasn't seemed to be as partisan as the house has. wouldn't you think if contradictions keep coming up and there are real questions about who said what and who may have been lying, at some point they'll be pushed to ask more? >> i think they can say we want to wait until we see what the findings of robert mueller is. >> they also have a responsibility to -- we need to know all of the facts around the collusion or potential collusion and what the russians did and who helped them because there

wasn't voter targeting or targeting without some of that data potentially. so i think that it's an all connected story where the senate does have a role and they have a responsibility and obligation to the american public to ensure integrity in our elections. >> i agree with both of you which is going to be hard because you're saying contradictory things. i think they are connected stories and they are connected questions, but the senate judiciary -- the investigative committees are going to say, listen, we went out to determine whether russia interfered in the 2016 election. they did. we've said that. it's unambiguous. the intelligence community is unambiguous in its view that russia colluded in the election. yes, all these figures are saying different things which is good because we have a federal investigation going by bob mueller and he's going to come to a conclusion of his own. we've done what we wanted to do and determined russia had an influence. >> and if they bring in those other people -- >> people have compared this cyber attack to the attack of

9/11 and that was an independent commission which resulted in actual readout of actions that the government could take. >> but it couldn't potentially interfere and that's a difference between 9/11 and the commission they set up. this investigation right now, robert mueller, first of all, i think a lot of people in the senate both sides of the aisle want to see it come out. second of all, if the senate starts doing other work that can potentially interfere with that investigation, that's problematic to the senate. >> let's go back to rudy giuliani and denying things that nobody has alleged, and then also just contradicting himself in the span of a couple of hours. listen to him first on cnn and then on fox talking about a strategy meeting that nobody had reported until today. nobody has reported still in fact. >> there was a meeting two days before the meeting took place with donald junior, jared, manafort and two others, gates and one more person. >> and that's a real meeting. you're saying that that's -- >> that's a real meeting on

another provable subject in which he did not participate. they were talking about the strategy of the meeting with the russians. the people in that meeting deny it. the people we've been tiebl interview. the people we've not been able to interview have never said that before b that meeting. >> so it's a meeting two days before the trump tower meeting with the russians and giuliani says that is a real meeting on another provable subject in which he would not participate, being the president. i guess he's saying it's not a strategy meeting here but it is a real meeting. here is what he told fox a couple of hours later. >> that meeting never, ever took place. it didn't happen. it's a figment of his imagination or his lying. the second meeting was brought to my attention through jay sekulow. both of us dealt with it with two different reporters. essentially the same information about this meeting that took place three days earlier with a whole group of people, every one of those people says it didn't

happen. >> so, jake, he says there's a real meeting on cnn and then a couple of hours later, four hours later, he says that meeting never took place. is rudy giuliani -- what's he doing? is he actually acting as the president's lawyer here or what is going on? did somebody get to him and say, oh, wait, no, no, no, you misspoke or we're not telling anyone about that yet? >> the person controlling the overall communication strategy is obviously the president. there's no sort of infrastructure that would dictate anything else. so again, i go back to my original point, it's not clear what his strategy is here. it's not clear what he's trying to do. it's difficult to discern what his motives are. >> if people are confused, is giuliani winning? >> yes. >> yes. >> i do think so. >> it's just adding more uncertainty into the situation. >> it muddies the waters and that's his goal. but to your original question about did he get a message saying that he made a mistake? i think so, because two days before the june 9th meeting is

the day donald trump stood there and said he's going to have dirt on hillary clinton on monday and miraculously didn't have anything on monday because donald trump jr. said they didn't get any dirt out of that meeting. >> it is so stupendous living in this tube. ahead, president trump's mysterious claim about a mueller conflict of interest and his attorney, rudy giuliani, isn't making things much clearer. -we're in a small room. what?! -welcome. -[ gasps ] a bigger room?! -how many of you use car insurance? -oh. -well, what if i showed you this? -[ laughing ] ho-ho-ho! -wow. -it's a computer. -we compare rates to help you get the price and coverage that's right for you. -that's amazing! the only thing that would make this better is if my mom were here. what?! an unexpected ending! new laptop with 24/7 tech support. yep, thanks guys. i think he might need some support. yes

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♪ tryna find the old me you might or joints.hing for your heart... but do you take something for your brain. with an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish, prevagen has been shown in clinical trials to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. welcome back. more than 14 months into the special counsel investigation, president trump has decided to go aggressively after robert mueller for what he says are conflicts of interest. the president tweeted yesterday is robert mueller ever going to release his conflicts of interest with respect to

president trump, including the fact that we had a very nasty and contentious business relationship. i turned him down to head the fbi one day before appointment as s.c., as in special counsel, and comey is his close friend. president trump's attorney, rudy giuliani, was asked to clarify that tweet this morning. here is what he had to say. >> he's referring to a dispute which i imagine mueller -- i imagine he disclosed it to rosenstein when he appointed him because it would involve something that actually wasn't settled even to this day. >> what's the conflict? >> i can't tell you. i'm not sure what the conflict is. it's one that would have kept me out of the investigation. >> joining me now is chuck rosenberg. chuck, we don't know this for sure but it's believed that the conflict the president is talking about is a -- maybe a dispute over fees at one of the golf clubs, we think. what is rudy giuliani trying to

do here by saying i can't say what it is, but it would keep me out of the investigation? >> katy, it's odd. he says he doesn't even know what it is. he thinks he knows what it is and it would have kept him out of the investigation, which are all sort of inconsistent with one another. i can assure you this having worked for bob mueller and having been on his staff and having been around that man for quite a while. if he thought he had a conflict of interest, he would step aside. the department of justice regulations are incredibly clear, and bob mueller knows those regulations inside out. this is just nonsense. >> so say he did feel he did have a conflict and he did flag it to rod rosenstein. he's still the special counsel. if it was a serious conflict of interest, would rod rosenstein continue to allow him to be special counsel? >> no, sure would not. there are plenty of ethics officials at the department of justice to whom you can go to seek guidance. if an issue came up and i thought it might create a conflict for me, there's a whole bunch of people i can talk to to

help think through the issue. by the way, the way most prosecutors handle this is if there's even an appearance of a conflict of interest, they'll step aside. so the fact that mueller has not stepped aside tells me, a, he knows exactly what he's doing and, b, he has no concerns about a conflict of interest. >> so bob mueller was interviewed for the fbi director. the president interviewed him, he did not choose him. is that a conflict of interest? >> no, absolutely not. by the way, i dispute -- i don't have firsthand knowledge but i have a pretty darn good guess. i dispute the president's recitation of what happened in the oval office. remember, bob mueller had been the director of the fbi f ten years when president obama asked him to do another two. so the man had one of the hardest jobs in the country for 12 years. that he would be in the oval office begging for another ten-year term when he was in his 70s strikes me as not credible. >> is it a conflict of interest if he did work for president obama and president bush, as you just mentioned?

>> not at all. no, not at all. the mere fact that you work in an administration doesn't mean that you have a conflict because you're investigating an official in another administration. that is not a conflict. nowhere in the department of justice regulations is that suggested that that would be a conflict. this is stuff they're just making up, katy, in order to dirty up bob mueller. that's all it is. >> he also tweeted why is mueller only appointing angry dems, some of whom have worked for crooked hillary and others worked for obama. why isn't mueller looking at all of the criminal activity and collusion on the democrats side, podesta, dossier? he's saying that everybody investigating him or the people investigating him are angry democra democrats. they have gone on and they have mentioned peter strzok a number of times, lisa page, peter strzok has testified in front of the house. the president seems to be indicating that he's running his fbi when his fbi is a deep state that is working against him.

does everybody in the fbi and the mueller investigation need to come in and present what they think of donald trump in order for this investigation to be fair, how they personally feel about him? >> no, absolutely not. look, it's perfectly okay for you, me and everybody else in the entire world to have our personal views and our personal opinions, right? we all think certain things. it doesn't mean we share them with everybody and it doesn't mean that it infects or infests our work in any way. the fact that mueller has a team of folks who may have voted, who may have contributed to certain politicians is completely beside the point. as long as they can put those views aside when they have to do their work. and by the way, katy, when bob mueller found out what pete strzok had been texting, he got him off the team that day, pretty darn quickly, because he understands better than anyone how important two things are, not just that outcomes are fair but that perceptions of outcomes are fair. he has a very professional team. what they do in their private life, how they vote, to whom

they donate is their private business. they can put that aside to do their work. >> rudy giuliani has visible today, let's put that mildly. we just talked about it a moment ago before the commercial break about how he's contradicting himself on air, he's denying things that so far have not been alleged, a strategy meeting, talking about the russia transaction, unclear what transaction he's talking about. it does seem that he's trying to muddy the waters to make this whole investigation very confusing, that this is a pr strategy rather than a legal strategy. do you think the president is being well served by rudy giuliani? >> well, katy, it depends on what the president wants. if he wants a pr strategy and not a legal strategy, i guess you could argue that mr. giuliani is executing on that. to put it kindly, mr. giuliani makes absolutely no sense, and as you point out, it is absolutely not a legal strategy. and by the way, katy, collusion is a crime. we just happen to call it something else. we call it conspiracy.

but it is absolutely a crime. you know, you probably won't find the word bank heist in the criminal code, but bank robbery is a crime too, so i'm sort of perplexed that it's come down to s synonyms. if they don't know this is a legal strategy. >> let's talk about how rudy giuliani and the president is going after michael cohen saying that he's a liar, saying that he can't be trusted and is inethical. they're very clearly trying to undermine cohen's credibility. if cohen ends up being somebody who cooperates with robert mueller and we don't have any indication that he is doing that or somebody that cooperates with the sdny, how does robert mueller's team turn him into a credible witness for the prosecution? >> well, first of all, prosecutors, and i was one for a long time, don't pick their

witnesses. defendants pick their witnesses, right? i mean it sort of comes down to who did you commit the crime with and who knows about what you did and so defendants pick witnesses for the government . e the government simply puts them on the stand. and how you do this and is going on every day is my corroborating your witnesses. you introduce documents, e-mails, telephone calls, bank records, other witnesses who can testify to what michael cohen knew, saw and heard, so while a case could technically turn on one witness, the law would permit that. that's not how prosecutors work. they find as many different things as they can or as they can to corroborate michael cohen. i am sure if they use him one day as a witness, he will be well corroborated, up, down and sideways. >> what does it say to you that rudy giuliani is going -- is attacking him so viciously, the way that he's doing so far?

>> well, it gets back to your earlier point, i think, that this is a political strategy. it's not going to make a bit of difference in a court of law. prosecutors know how to handle that. it may make a difference in the court of public opinion. and so if that's what rudy giuliani is trying to do, to some extent he's succeeding. look, here we are talking about it. if you're talking one day about a trial in front of 12 men and women in a federal court, it's not going to make a darn bit of difference. so it is what it is, katy. it's deeply unfortunate. all witnesses have some baggage. by the way, interestingly, the government is required, required to turn over any information it obtains in the course of its investigation that could impeach or undermine a witness. it must give that to the defendant and his or her attorneys. and so rudy giuliani isn't doing anything that the government one day won't have to do itself. >> we should also note that michael cohen has not been charged with any crime. the raid into his offices and

home was in april. he has not been charged with any crime. it is mid-july right now. >> that's right. >> chuck rosenberg, thank you very much. >> thank you. and ahead, the shutdown showdown. president trump says he's willing to close the government over border security. will republicans back him up? ♪ this is a story about mail and packages. and it's also a story about people. people who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams they're handing us more than mail they're handing us their business and while we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget... that your business is our business the united states postal service. priority: you ♪ new laptop with 24/7 tech support. yep, thanks guys. i think he might need some support. yes start them off right. with the school supplies they need at low prices all summer long. save $200 on this dell laptop

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robert wilke was sworn in in the past hour as the new head of the va, but he's expected to shake things up. "the washington post" reports that he plans to reassign several high-ranking political appointees. "the post" says wilke wants to form his own leadership team and address lawmakers' concerns. the va has become highly politicized. this comes after a lengthy leadership shuffle, not scuffle, you could call it a scuffle but it's really a shuffle on the va. now it will be on him to establish some stability. we'll be right back with more "mtp daily." oh!

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welcome back. president trump is doubling down on his threats of a government shutdown over immigration. the president reiterated in tweets and at a joint press conference with the italian prime minister today that he is willing to risk shutting down the government if it means fulfilling pledges like his border wall. >> as far as the border is concerned and personally, if we

don't get border security after many, many years of talk within the united states, i would have no problem doing a shutdown. >> except republicans in congress would have a problem doing a shutdown, especially if it were only about a month about the midterm elections. and as they found out the last time around earlier this year, it is not so easy to blame the other side for a shutdown when your party is in power. as oklahoma republican congressman tom cole told "the new york times," quote, we're going to have a challenging midterm anyway and i don't see how putting the attention on shutting down the government when you control the government is going to help you. but it is clear president trump is itching for a fight. i'm joined now by delaware democratic senator chris coons, thank you for joining us. >> great to be on with you again. >> are you concerned there could

be a shutdown this fall? >> i am. this doesn't help anyone. no one here in congress is itching for a government shutdown because frankly that shows that we're not able to do our most important job here, which is to compromise and to move things forward. president trump seems to think a shutdown is a great idea, and i'll remind you that what he's threatening to shut down the government over is getting full funding for his proposal for a border wall, which he campaigned saying he would somehow get mexico to pay for it. now he's demanding that the american taxpayer spend billions of dollars on a border wall that both republicans and democrats have said is not a smart use of money. now, katy, to be clear, this isn't a fight between republicans who want border security and democrats who want open borders. a lot of democrats, including myself, we voted for a significant investment in border security as part of the bills that we took up and voted on earlier this year in february to try and solve the dreamer problem by matching it up with

tens of billions of dollars of new investment in border security. that wasn't good enough for president trump, so he campaigned against those bills and killed them. frankly, this government shutdown threat by president trump over the border wall is just a renewed chapter in his bullying techniques on trying to get his way on immigration rather than working together across the aisle to find a bipartisan compromise. >> you are correct to point out that he did campaign on making mexico pay for it, but you also talk about compromise. and if the president demands this, demands that his border wall get funded, what would the democrats be willing to compromise on in order to get something like dreamers, would you give him the border wall funding in return for protections for dreamers? after all, at one point senator schumer said all of the funding for the border wall was on the table earlier. >> that's right. that's right. so, katy, back in february, i worked with senator john mccain of arizona, we introduced in the

senate and had a vote on the floor on a bipartisan bill that had its origins in the house where evening i think 54 both republicans and democrats co-sponsored a bill that had a pathway for dreamers in exchange for strengthening border security. that only got 52 votes. we also had a vote that same day on a much stronger border security for dreamer pathway to citizenship bill led by senator collins and senator joe manchin, a bipartisan group of two dozen senators negotiated hard on that. that included $25 billion in secure long-term commitments for border infrastructure. and frankly, that bill only failed on the floor because president trump personally campaigned against it that day lobbying to bring it down. we had 60 votes when we brought it to the floor. he peeled them off. so if the president is committed to killing any responsible bipartisan proposal that would give him the border wall he

claims he needs and wants, then it's frustrating and difficult for those of us willing to work across the aisle to see a path towards a successful completion of what the president says is his main goal. >> senator, given what happened in 2016 and how expectations were divide by donald trump getting elected, there's a lot of questions about what's going to happen in 2018 and whether or not it is a good idea to count on what normally happens, which is the party not in power taking over for the midterms or that the president's approval rating is so low that the democratic party will have a blou waue wav the fall. are you concerned that a shutdown won't work to your benefit in the way that it has historically? we did a survey monkey poll back in january that talked about who voters would blame for a shutdown. yes, given this is january and it's july right now, but the blame was split pretty equally between democrats and between president trump at 39% and 38%

respectively. are you concerned that that could hurt democrats in the midterms? >> look, katy, first to your first point there, i don't think we can take anything for granted. i don't think we can take for granted that polling that shows that a democratic base voters are more enthusiastic we are likely to take back the house. i don't think we can take that for granted at all. i think it's important that anyone who's watching who would like to see some change in congress, would like to see the house in particular or the senate able to act as a real check and balance on the president, don't trust the polls. get engaged, get out there and work for the outcome you want in this fall's elections. but on the specific issue of who would bear the blame for a shutdown, i agree. it's very tough to predict how the average american would read this. i do think because it's president trump who is calling for the shutdown and who would likely cause a shutdown, that he would end up bearing most of the responsibility. but given this unpredictable nature of the last 18 months here in washington, i think it's

hard to predict exactly what would happen. >> one quick question on the russia investigation. michael cohen is, according to sources that have spoken to nbc news, now alleging that don junior told donald trump about the trump tower meeting before it happened. he testified in front of the judiciary committee that he did not know, the president did not know in advance of the meeting. do you want to see don junior come back? >> absolutely. i have said for months that we should have him back in front of our committee. there are a number of critical witnesses and pieces of evidence that the republican majority declined to compel in front of the senate judiciary committee. we know that there was a blocked cell phone call just before and just after that trump tower meeting, yet the majority would not issue a subpoena so that we could see who that call was to. i'm not at all surprised that michael cohen is alleging that president trump knew about that meeting. it happened on a day when then candidate donald trump was in the same building just a floor away from his campaign manager

and his son. the odds that they had a meeting with a group of russians promising dirt on hillary clinton and it wasn't discussed beforehand or afterhand seemed very slight to me. if true, this would be a bombshell, because this is the moment where russia's organized and widespread campaign to try an interfere in our 2016 election meets up with a trump campaign team that was eager to receive their help. that would be a significant development in the ongoing investigation by mueller. this is also why i think it's important for us to protect robert mueller's investigation. >> senator, one quick question, it's a bit of a personal question. i'm going to get it through quickly. your sons, your twin sons are going to college. >> that's right. >> you told me a moment ago off camera that you have been saving since they were born for college, it's so expensive. given how expensive it is, do you have any thoughts about how people can afford to pay for college and whether or not, i don't know, bernie sanders' plan for free tuition for all is a good idea? >> i do think that we need to

reform our 529 savings plans to make them more broadly available to americans. the president is about to sign into law tomorrow the career and technical education bill which contains something called the american dream accounts that senator rubio and i have worked on that would help incentivize americans of all income levels to save for college at an earlier age. i frankly also think we ought to make national service an attractive and available way to earn a college education. the g.i. bill provides a well deserved opportunity for college education for our armed forces. i think we should have a comparable program for those who will dedicate several years of full-time service to our communities here at home. >> senator chris coons, thank you very much. and good luck with your kids in college. >> thank you, katy. and ahead, a supreme decision for red state democrats. back president trump's pick or not. hundred roads named "park" in the u.s. it's america's most popular street name.

but allstate agents know that's where the similarity stops. if you're on park street in reno, nevada, the high winds of the washoe zephyr could damage your siding. and that's very different than living on park ave in sheboygan, wisconsin, where ice dams could cause water damage. but no matter what park you live on, one of 10,000 local allstate agents knows yours. now that you know the truth, are you in good hands?

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confirmation. he was one of three democratic senators with indiana's joe donnelly and north dakota's hei heidi heitkamp who backed knene gorsuch's nomination. manchin's impression could set the tone. we are 99 days until election day. we will see if the kavanaugh vote will move the dial either way in red states. more "mtp daily" right after the break. ♪ ♪ let your perfect drive come together at the lincoln summer invitation sales event. get 0% apr on select 2018 lincoln models plus $1,000 bonus cash. i love you, basement guest bathroom.

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but behr premium stain y can weather any weather. overall #1 rated, weathers it all. find our most advanced formula exclusively at the home depot. welcome back. time now for "the lid." today after the president said he would meet iran without any preconditions, no preconditions, his secretary of state mike pompeo then went on cnbc and, you guessed it, just like the tires are the things on the car that make contact with the road, he listed preconditions. >> if the iranians demonstrate a commitment to make fundamental

changes in how they treat their own people, reduce their maligned behavior, agree that it's worthwhile to enter into a nuclear agreement that actually prevents proliferation, then the president is prepared to sit down and have a conversation with them. >> that is not at all what the president said. the panel is back. jake, zerlina and susan. jake, i think has just been the family berserker. i'm making you laugh, i'm sorry. >> i'm excited to talk about this. >> he's saying one thing in front of a bunch of reporters. i'll meet with anyone, no preconditions. the president of the united states issing a that. and then his secretary of state, no, actually we've got some things we want. they did the same thing with north korea. >> this crazy world, i know, it's crazy. so republicans -- this is not an exaggeration to say republican foreign policy for the last decade has been predicated in a large part on not meeting with dictators and bad actors on the global stage without

preconditions, period. the republican party went crazy when the president -- when president obama went to cuba to meet with raul castro. >> they were really upset when he upset when he talked to rahouni on the phone in 2013. >> he goes and meets with people and says he doesn't know if there could be a deal unless i meet with them. it completely throws out the foreign policy that tom cotton and mike pompeo when he was in office. >> they said in 2013 that obama is willing to negotiate with iran and others but not with congress and you get on the phone very willing to negotiate with putin, says i will shut

down the government over the border wall. >> and president obama didn't negotiate with congress, i was there for it. >> the funny thing is, as you say, what republican foreign policy has been based on, the one thing donald trump gets to say when he has this meeting is no other president has agreed to do this. that's all he cares about. he takes the meeting as a victory lap. he has no sense of policy. he doesn't understand the consequences of his actions. he does not respect the white house or the office of the presidency, so why should he care? he doesn't understand how it's giving putin something to invite him here because he literally does not comprehend what it means to sit in that office and how it affects domestic and foreign policy. >> let me take a different tact, they say, we have to talk to people if we want to solve problems. that's what president obama did. should they be applauding the

president for doing the same thing, if we want to solve problems we have to talk to people. >> small caveat, he's meeting without pre-conditions or saying he will do that but not doing the planning or staff planning associated with a meeting at this same level. on the one hand, the same thing, i will meet without pre-conditions, obama was criticized for that. but have a fully staffed state department that did the staffing work necessary to make sure we didn't go into one of these meetings and -- >> of course -- >> have somebody transcribed the interim. >> and have a president follow the notes, it says do not congratulate in upper case letters in bold at the top of the page, maybe president trump listens. >> he read the memos. >> presumably. he wants to shut down the government right before the mid-terms. we read some polling in january that said voters would blame both democrats and donald trump, 39-38% respectively.

obviously, it is july, things are a little bit different. showdown and shutdown, is that good for the democrats out of the midterms? >> it's difficult to say, right, republicans were in control and shut down the government in 2013 and gained the largest majority since herbert hover in 2014 and slid into more power. i think right before the election, shutdown would be 37 days before election day. i think the president now has said, basically, i'm okay with shutting down the government, not basically, he has said that. he is putting the onus, he's saying he's fine and comfortable with the shut down, not usually what presidents or politics say. again, i go back to this. today based on what we know, republicans will lose the house, based on something we don't foresee, that will happen. whether this will be dispositive or not in that political outcome i don't know the answer to it.

>> are you that sure democrats will have a blue wave and republicans will lose the house, are you that sure? >> they don't need a blue wave, they need 23 seats, not 53. >> a stick freeze. >> they don't need a current just a good riptide. >> is it a bad idea to believe in your own hype? doesn't that depress turnout? >> yes. you believe your own hype all the way to the finish line and you don't win. >> i'm a slave to the traffic light. time is up. jake and susan, thank you very much. ahead, andrea mitchell, breaking news and blazing trails. ♪

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xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome. in case you missed it we are marking a milestone at msnbc. it was 40 years ago andrea mitchell, "the queen" began her career with msnbc, a career that scanned seven presidents and countless major stories. >> joining us for our interviews, andrea mitchell, white house correspondent of nbc news. >> andrea mitchell, foreign affairs correspondent. >> senator, you've said what you're against, what are you for? >> with all due respect, gentleman, there is a perception out there, people in power,

particularly in congress in washington are a closed club. >> take a look at the e-mail trails and you will see -- >> i cover the state department. that is factually not correct. >> andrea mitchell. >> andrea mitchell. >> andrea mitchell. >> if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." >> go ahead, take a look at any major news event from the last 40 years and chances are you will find andrea in there potentially getting covered with a bunch of balloons, you never know. she's most likely in the center of the action, tenacious, always hungry for the next big story. after four decades, how does she do it? with drive and focus and unwavering commitment to journalism. i'm also pretty sure there are 16 expressos a day and that probably doesn't hurt either. maybe 16 bags of peanut m&ms as well. thank you for embodying what

journalism is all about and setting the standards and being a personal mentor for me. that is all for today. chuck will be back tomorrow with more. "the beat" starts now? what a remarkable inspiration. as everyone says, there can only be one queen bee in every newsroom. that's andrea, without a doubt. >> on that note i have to do my show. bye. >> bye. >> the pressure is building on president trump that there may be evidence linking him to that trump tower meeting and links him to colluding with russia. there's more bad news from trump but comes from his own current lawyer, rudy guilliani. to think about how tonight is so revealing about the mood at the white house, quite dark. if you're accused of murder, the best defense is usually