last night he dropped this bombshell that you need photo id to buy grocery. that does it for me. ari is going to be in tonight for rachel maddow. chris matthews and "hardball" starts right now. >> caught in the swamp, let's play hard ball. acting like a ship's captain in a typhoon. calling the investigation a witch hunt, the media, the enemy of the people. good evening, i am chris matthews and steaming swamp like

washington that has just been drenched with rainfall. it is wet in this town and steaming. president trump is waging an increasingly desperate battle. case in point is the president's cavalier tweet in which he calls on the justice department yesterday to terminate the russian probe all together. quote attorney general jeff sessions should stop this witch hunt right now. one of the most overt message that president has taken to date to shut down the probe. trying to protect the president, trump's allies are trying to downplay the significance of his tweeting. saying president trump is only expressing his personal opinion. >> not an order, it is his opinion. the president is stating his opinion. i think i have clarified this

ten times. it is his opinion. once again, he is stating hiss opinion. >> as the white house has made clear in the past, trump's tweets are not personal opinions. >> are president's tweets considered official white house statements? >> the president is the president of the united states so they are considered official. >> made clear his intent that he wants the justice department to stop investigating him. but another reason he steps to stop the probe. tweets he needs a daily drum beat. his lawyers have told him he has no personal legal exposure and the only threat to him would be impeachment proceedings. no wonder in the last year alone

the president has made 78 official posts on twitter that the investigation is a witch hunt. all of this comes amid new signs that the special counsel continues to probe potential collusion. as new york times reports muell mueller -- joining me now is peter baker, shannon pettypiece, and clem kerrshner. i want to start with peter. it does get clamorous. what is trump up to right now in saying he wants the special counsel to be fired for the

probe to be eliminated and wants his attorney general to do it right now. that's his current position. >> yeah, it does seem like he is lashing out more and more lately. upset at the coverage of his meeting of vladimir putin in helsinki, upset at the news of michael cohen having taped his conversation about possible pay off to a woman who claims he had an affair with her. he is feeling the pressure, feeling the heat and he is lashing out. yesterday's tweet takes him further up towards the line. so far he hasn't been willing to cross. has to give an order saying fire rod rosenstein, fire mueller. so he inches up close to the line and makes his point of view well-known. but so far not willing to cross it. even he thinks that might be too dangerous. >> i would think this special

counsel hears a guy that says fires me and takes it seriously. not that is an eight-year-old bagging on the crib. it means something. >> and the president's defenders acts like an eight-year-old banging on the crib. >> when we look at the president's tweets, tweets equal evidence. statement of a party opponent. if the president would end up a defendant in a court, those tweets prove his state of mind. who he was angry with. and what he intended to do. guess what are not add missable in court, walk backs. it will never modify what the president tweeted about in court. the same holds true for rudy

giuliani. every walkback will never see the inside of a courtroom. >> this isn't going to be in court is what the president's lawyers are banking on. you cannot indict a sitting president. they are banking on that. if he is found to do something inappropriately, this is -- >> the donbut doesn't that soun obstruction. >> i view that as a political tweet. ahead of november 2018 to show what is at stake. and also what is at stake with a supreme court pick. if you get kavanaugh in there, that helps you in this impeachment. >> i take him literally. and his defenders are able to play the game, everybody knows

he is a precocious kid. at the same time the president tries to discredit, destroy the investigation -- he is talking about maybe talking. the "new york times" reports that after eight months of talks mueller is agreeing to accept written answers. however the president's lawyers are unwilling to concede the follow-ups in person, citing concerns that mr. trump will increase his legal. in effect he believes he can convince -- rudy giuliani tells politi politi politico tonight whether he will

grant the interview. he want to keep talking. are they going to let him in the room with seasoned prosecutors to grill him on his intention regarding obstruction? >> the answer is no. and mr. giuliani has been negotiating for months and months. >> you mean they are leaking all of this. >> i thought if that is accurate, here is what he is trying to do. question number 1 for example could be, mr. trump, did you tell director comey to layoff flynn. there is only two answers to. that if the president answers no, bob mueller i am betting he is lying about that. if he is answering yes, that is evidence of obstruction. lose-lose for the president. bob mueller will put those written questions together because he wants everybody to

believe he is giving the president an opportunity to say his peace and have his answer be heard. he is going to push that paper back and say i think we will pass. >> that is one of the reasons giuliani's proposal to mueller is we will answer questions on collusion but not on obstruction. they know if mueller believes comey or other witnesses trump is going to contradict them and there he is in perjury. >> the tease that has been going on is ask questions about motive. i don't think you can ask somebody as wily as trump about his motive. it is a subjective analysis. if you ask him these questions of fact, did you ask the comey, to let his buddy michael flynn off or did you not, i don't think they are ready for questions of fact. what do you make of that?

>> his motives are plain. made them plain through his tweets and through his statements. the question, they are putting out is can he be charged with obstruction if he is the head of the executive branch. laying out a theory that because the president of the united states, he cannot be guilty of obstruction. it is in his authority to change the personnel or even end an investigation outright. particularly as shannon says might not hold up to a court of public opinion. republican house isn't going to go there. >> that is a fair assessment. all of these impeachments going back to andrew johnson have been through opposition parties. johnson was a democrat. let me ask you about this

subpoena question. nixon had a respond with the tapes. the supreme court require he turn over the tapes showing him basically obstructing justice. clinton had to turn over whatever he turned over. testify in open hearing on tape. why wouldn't they just subpoena the guy, do it and get it over with. >> the department of justice has a policy, that we, they, do not subpoena target of investigation. a target of investigation -- >> nixon was a target. >> yeah, but there is a doj policy, not a law. so we can't hand them a grand jury subpoena which is a court order and direct him to testify because he will be incriminating himself. there is an exception to that policy but in my thi30 years we cannot have it apply. >> can you make it jump in

civilian language. can't be indicted and therefore he can't be a target. >> can be a target because he could be indicted and they could delay a prosecution until after he left office. right now in real terms, i believe he has morphed into a target. how bob mueller chooses to proceed, it is open. >> do we know why mueller wants to talk to a guy as wily and slippery as trump. why does he want to do this. >> when you look broader at his mandate, it is to look into whether or not the trump campaign colluded. well, if he lies to you, then you have him on making false statements or perjury. he has an investigation to conduct. people who work with him say he is going to conduct a thorough

investigation. would not necessarily be a thorough investigation. >> more signs that the special counsel is still scrutinizing donald trump jr.'s meeting. nbc news is reporting that mueller has requested an interview with russian pop star emi emin, who helped set it up. >> he confirmed he did speak to donald trump jr. about the trump tower meeting. >> i think the president is unwise to walk into a perjury trap against a group of smart people -- no one is smart enough to take on all of mueller's team. >> this is knnewt gingrich.

you have been saying, people have been saying this is about politics. there is not going to be a trial, acquit or a verdict, or a judgment against him, a condemnation. in the end it is going to depend on who carries the house. if the democrats carry the house, most people think they will win. i simply have to deal with the fact that a partisan house is going to impeach me or narrowly not. and i will live that and still get elected in 2020. is that the strategy. >> certainly one strategy. and as you rightly pointed out. we have learned that they don't succeed unless they are bipartisan. the democrats weren't willing to

abandon bill clinton. right now, even if the senate were to go democratic, it would be one or two votes. they wouldn't have the 67 votes that they need for conviction. if he chooses not to resign, then if republicans bail on him like they did during nixon. that doesn't seem likely at the moment. we will see. if they decide he is more trouble than worth keeping. there is a scenario in which he gets hammered in the election this fall and if he rallies his base. bill clinton did well after impeachment. his approval ratings went up and not down. anything that can happen. >> nixon had nobody that was his problem.

and trump has fox. thank you. day three of the manafort trial. according to reports the president is monitoring what is happening over there. first big battle. first big test. the scarey world of q anon. who are these internet conspiracy theorist and why are they showing up at trump rallies. and ivanka, she does not agree with her father the media is the enemy of the people. and bringing you the latest going on in willkes-barre, pennsylvania. ♪ bright copper kettles and warm woolen mittens ♪ ♪ brown paper packages tied up with strings ♪ ♪ these are a few of my favorite things ♪

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a is attempting to interfere with the election. here is dan coats. >> we acknowledge the threat, it is real. it is continuing. and doing everything we can to have a legitimate election that the american people can have trust in. asked if the president has raised those concerns in his meeting with vladimir putin. coats said he still doesn't know what the two leaders have talked about. we'll be right back. like safe driver, paperless. the list goes on. how about a discount for long lists? gold. mara, you save our customers hundreds for switching almost effortlessly. it's a gift. and jamie. -present. -together we are unstoppable. so, what are we gonna do? ♪ insurance. that's kind of what we do here. it's a high-tech sleep revolution.

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tweeting. in the courtroom itself prosecutors are laying out just how lavish manafort's lifestyle has been. spent $450,000 on landscaping on a vacation home. and he spent more than $1 million on clothing. including $15,000 for this jacket made from ostrich. who wants a python jacket. facing multiple charges of bank and tax fraud. the charges predate itself. first test for special counsel mueller's prosecution. i am joined by cynthia ox nee and josh gershstein.

why is this guy ostrich jacket and loot from eastern europe. >> it is completely over the top. they are really being fought at every turn by the judge who is in charge. he is telling them move on. move on right now. you have seen more pictures that you have shown to the audience more pictures than the jury has seen. pretty much will allow one or two in and then makes him move on. dry testimony about the wire transfers, banks in cypress and going through line by line about how invoices were paid. >> it seems to me it is all

paper. accounting is tricky enough for most people. it seems they are going to buy the argument for the prosecution. >> if you looked at the indictment, the indictment goes and they will get a copy of the indictment in the jury room and it goes line by line and list after list. these kind of cases are boring. >> but they have it nailed. >> yeah. >> you are politically in tuned. >> well, it is a continuing to move manafort to try to get him to try to flip. he has this indictment and the indictment in d.c. and my guess is he will have a third indictment that has to do with obstruction and a conspiracy to violate campaign

finance laws. and mueller is trying to push towards that. and this is the first piece of moving towards that. >> and you were telling me, that you think maybe the manafort people are showing leg on this, niceness to the white house saying we have stuff that is going to come at you. >> when you try a case in federal court, you have to give to the defense all the statements you have. so everything gates said since he flipped about everything. and going against manafort, everything he has told the fbi. the defense has that. and they are using, going to use it in the trial. i don't think people realize that. interestingly, that comes right before trial, the prosecutors go through their file and make the

copies. >> let me jump over to josh. what would a smart defense attorney do. what is he going to say, i have on my hands all the dirt they have on me, but also the dirt they have on you mr. president. how about you give me a break like a pardon. >> a lot of people think the end game here is some kind of pardon. this is such a difficult case for the defense, they have these mountains of paperwork showing this guy was paying all these high, hundreds of thousands of dollars in personal bills from accounts like places like cypress and the grenadines. >> while trump may be willing to comment on the manafort case, it seems the white house is trying to keep the president's allies

from doing the same. according to politico, told them some interpret this as an attempt to keep them from talking about the trial on tv and to starve it from oxygen. it might leap over to him, this bad news from gates. and the white house is very careful to keep their fingers away from this thing. this manafort case. >> about the time the prosecutors give all of this information to manafort is the same time that giuliani starts to talk about how there was another meeting that gates was present. and so i think they are seeing this and it is affecting them. >> how is mueller looking at this. first battle he needs to win? >> he definitely has to win it.

they are being forced to limit the evidence that they put forward. the judge is moving them along. there really is a mountain of evidence here on tax evasion in particular and cutting it down to half a mountain may not do damage to mueller's case and denying the atmospherics. they probably can figure it out from the paperwork alone. >> the prosecution has the advantage. >> it will be done at the end of the week. >> thank you. up next, what is q anon and why are supporters of this fringe group and its conspiracy showing front and center at trump rallies. got pictures, another crazy group out there aligning itself with trump. elite group of people, out to screw you in every possible way

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welcome back to "hardball." over the past few months a fringe group of conspiracy theorist has gained a lot of attention. a group called q anon backed president trump. and here they are at tonight's rally in pennsylvania that is starting right now. a recent report in the daily

beast detailed some of the conspiracies. plotters in the deep state tried to shoot down air force one and foil president trump's north korea summit. a cabal of global elites. and now trump is going to fix it all with thousands of sealed indictments sending the likes of hillary clinton and barack obama straight to guantanamo bay. an area we are going to have to weigh into. we see real people, citizens of the united states wearing qs all over them. what do they believe? >> it is bizarre. this started on secure internet f forums and they believe that president trump is engaged in a good versus evil struggle.

>> he has enemies, he points to the president, enemies of the people. he has got the witch hunt. so three known groups of people he calls the enemy. it is a need of these people from the far, far, right >> hillary clinton hasn't been locked up. so they imagine this nefarious oo cults. >> who makes this t-shirts? >> he is enjoying himself, but look, somebody who is more serious. these are people who you go to amazon to buy these t-shirts. >> someone at this rally with a wooden q he is wearing. they are real people and had a

rally in d.c. in april. >> what do they agree on is this kwc q person, or group. who is the leader. this is a good conspiracy, right? >> they think q is their ally. someone in the trump administration. a reporter asking trump are you q. is it michael flynn. it is so crazy. but people believe it. >> and where is it going politically? >> they are hard core trump people. >> who are the good guys in the p pantheon. >> mattis, kim jong-un. >> good guys? >> yes. >> this seems like extreme trump. do a marvel comic figure. and take it to that dimension.

and the good are the trumpies. >> a fantasy world. >> look at this. are they going to endorse, is kwcq, going to endorse candidates. >> an armed man in an armored truck shut down a bridge. q targeted michael avenatti, it is strange stuff. >> where do you see it by this november, election day. >> if the democrats take back the house, maybe a conspiracy theory how they stole the election. >> we are going further into that sphere. william, you can have this beat. you keep this beat. thank you, up next, ivanka trump speaking out about an issue that she and her dad may not see eye

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remember that incredible night in november. remember that incredible night. and you remember that we were way up in pennsylvania and there was only 2% of the vote left and we were way up. if i lost every vote, we would have won the state of pennsylvania. and the fake news refused to call it, right? >> welcome back to "hardball" that was donald trump right now in will, pennsylvania. >> do you think the media is the

enemy of the people. >> no. i do not. >> that's not a view that is shared in your family. >> are you looking for me to elaborate. >> sure. >> no, i don't. >> trump tweeted that ivanka's answer was correct. >> i am joined tonight. i want to start with jennifer on this. trump is serious about this. he is not narrowing the group. we are the enemy of the people and i think he is getting into a frenzy. i am beginning to think there is something going on here. worried about the typhoon around him and he is attacking everyone. >> i think he is desperate at this point. he is not the master of his own ship. he sees the polls. he is in the last few months of

a republican congress. he sees a trial that is proceeding down the emollument trail. he sees horrible reviews with vladimir putin. he sees mueller not going away. and trump can't do anything about it. so what is he doing? he lashes out. i think this is a desperate man. >> i agree. >> and he is getting to a point where he is completely out of control. wh when. >> when he says fire mueller, i don't take it -- he is trying to obstruct justice. >> they have been telling us that we should take him seriously, but not literally.

>> he wants him out. >> he wants us talking about that instead of what his tariffs are doing to people getting ready to buy school supplies and to the farmers. he would much rather fight with the press. >> i think he is turning us third world. do we dare announce the results of the election, oh, no, because somebody might not like it. >> it is a lot like the third world. but the third world doesn't have the u.s. constitution. we see a lot coming to a head at this point. jennifer ran it down very well. from the emollument clause to the russian investigation. he has no new tactic. relying on pumping up the base.

we marvel how solid it is. and it is not growing. and then you've got the bashing of the media, which everybody does. he just does more relentlessly. and it begins to lose power. >> i want to stick on this point. nixon would say, the press is the enemy, meaning they are adversarial. >> enemies list remember. >> he meant by -- he didn't mean it enemies of the people. >> you know -- >> there is a difference. >> he wants to discredit anything that would have credibility against him. he is a man that cares about messaging and perception and if he can undermine all of the media, it undermines everything

they write about him. that's a problem that he is going to face. >> that rally tonight, trumped weighed in. let's watch him tonight. >> we got along really well. by the way, that's a good thing. not a bad thing. that's a really good thing. now, we're being hindered by the russian hoax. it is a hoax. russia is very unhappy that trump won. that i can tell you. but i got along great with putin. and everybody said wow, that was a great. couple of hours later, i started hearing these reports that you know, they wanted me to walk up here is the podium. they wanted me to walk up and go

like this. they wanted me to go up and have a boxing match. i said whatever happened to diplomacy. >> well here is a problem which is the russians according to all of the investigators that we got in the country are still at it. still poking around. always his top people came out tonight said they are up to him and here he says we have no problem with putin. >> and john bolton saying the president understands that. they don't agree with the president. and the president is exercising no leadership and he is telling you right there and then, he did not want to confront a power that is hostile to the united states. he has confessed, he is a patsy. doesn't have the nerve to stand up to putin in public.

>> he has basically said, i don't care if the supreme court burns down to the ground. as long as i am still standing. he is willing to destroy everybody's but his own. >> if he loses in congress, that is his to lose. where he goes from here, that say big question mark. >> do you think he knows all of this. >> he knows that much. >> nixon, when he got re-elected overwhelmingly. they are sitting there listening to victory at sea. he says we just lost the house again, we lost the power of subpoena. they are coming at me. do you think trump understands this? >> all of these guys are going

to have the power of subpoena. >> he understands. he thinks the way to do it is to shut down the government and talk about immigration and nobody over at congress agrees with him. >> we know barbara comstock says i am not shutting down the government. >> the last thing they want is a big fight about immigration and a wall that 60% of american people disagree with. every time donald trump does that, their skin must crawl. people saying why doesn't people stand up to this guy. making a majority that basically it has been. >> look, i don't have a lot of people in politics, a few people i have a problem with, but sarah huckabee sanders has a job to do. and she was asked do you believe the press are the enemy of the

people and she dodged. forced to choose between her conscious and her job. jim acosta asking sarah huckabee sanders about this contention. >> it is ironic that not only you and the media attack the president for his rhetoric. repeatedly the media resorts to personal attacks without any content other than to incite anger. the media continues to ratchet up the verbal assault against the president and everyone in this administration. and the media has a role to play for the discourse as well. >> all i am asking you to do is acknowledge that right here. >> i appreciate your passion. i share it. i have draaddressed this questi. i have addressed my personal

question. i am here to act on behalf of the president. >> the president blamed the press for bad coverage of his visit to the queen. >> here was the story by the fake news. the president was 15 minutes late for the queen. wrong. and then here is the rest of the story. here is the rest. er here is the rest of the store. they said i was late, i was actually early. i guess the meeting was scheduled for 15 minutes and it lasted over an hour. the president overstays. so i was late and i overstayed and honestly, folks, it was a beautiful visit and afternoon. but they can make anything bad

because they are the fake, fake disgusting news. >> i have no idea what he is talking about and i am not going to think about it anymore. the roundtable sticking with us. and these people tell me me something i don't know. you are watching "hardball." going new places. (oh!) going out for a bite. going anytime. rewarded! learn more at theexplorercard.com

right back with the "hardball" roundtable and these three will tell me something i don't noy. you are watching "hardball." trout.

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roundtable. ginger, tell me something i don't know. >> the fight between trump and the coke brothers. this is a fight that could cost some candidates a real problem. >> i can't say i have a dog in that fight. >> fun to watch. >> right to bear arms, how about the right to bear knives. for the last eight years, a crusade on trying to get rid of knife control laws. yesterday, august 1, louisiana became the twoinsds it shall. >> right now having the warm up

act on the nomination of kavanaugh. wait until they start demanding documents from the federalist society. and wait until they start making inquiries. but donald trump should not be picking the guy who is going to rule on an ongoing federal prosecution. >> thank you. when we return let me finish with trump watch. it's a big one. you're watching "hardball." ♪ ooh, heaven is a place on earth ♪ uhp.

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trump watch thursday august 2nd, 2018. president trump's behavior is increasingly growing frantic. a man facing unclear but imminent danger. as if the big woeful attack is coming and nothing he can do to stop it. his own attacks are going in all directions. it is a witch hunt. it is the deep state that is out to get him. the fake media that is advancing. converging upon him. what can a serious observer make of this weird behavior, is it paranoia. is it the man tweeting so

desperately at dawn lost touch with reality. all the accepted measures of truth and justice are now aligning. and to his present horror about the strike. i suspect for him is the stark and awful truth and ha is "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts now. tonight on "all in,". >> special counsel is negotiating with an interview of the man who set up the meeting. and bad news for roger stone. we are learning about where mueller is headed. bank fraud, oligarchs and more suits on day through of the manafort trial. >> the white house