weather, to understand fuels better. so there are things that can be done at the federal level. but you know what, when you look at what happened at redding, when you look at what happened at santa rosa, when you look at what happened in ventura, where fires have gone from the wild land/urban interface right into the suburbs, right into towns, that's at the state level. we have to look at our zoning. we have to look at our construction materials. we basically have to look at where we have people on the land and how we protect them. >> right now we just have to thank those 14,000 firefighters that are on the ground. >> incredible. >> glen, thank you. thank you for watching this hour of "velshi & ruhle." i'll see you tomorrow at 8:00 a.m. i turn you over to andrea mitchell for "andrea mitchell reports." former paul manafort deputy rick gates back on the witness

stand. >> reporter: they're going to say he's damaged goods, he comes to court as a convicted felon. he was convicted of lying to the fbi when agents were investigating manafort's political consulting in ukraine. and they'll argue that because he cut a deal with the prosecutors, he would be able say anything to save his own skin. election day, the last special election before november. today in ohio, will president trump's weekend appearance there help or hurt the republican? >> he definitely brought major excitement. and they were excited to see him up here. he is the president of the united states. >> reporter: how much is donald trump on the ballot in this race? >> well, he's not. and california burning. 14,000 firefighters struggling against the state's wildfires, including now the largest in california history, taking lives and leaving thousands homeless. >> there's a lot of fire on the landscape and not a lot of good

ways to catch it. >> they say evacuate, go. take what you can grab and go. good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in washington. president trump's former deputy campaign manager back on the witness stand today in the paul manafort bank and tax fraud trial. rick gates revealing new details on criminal acts he says were committed at mr. manafort's direction, including falsifying loan documents and hiding millions of dollars in overseas accounts. the manafort legal team is waiting for their chance to cross-examine gates, hoping the jury will ignore a long paper trail and believe that their client was not involved in any of the wrongdoing. joining me now, nbc national security reporter ken dilanian outside the courthouse. former u.s. attorney joyce va e

vance. nbc's phil rucker. ken, first to you for an update on what is happening in the courtroom today. >> andrea, rick gates continues on the stand. i just witnessed some really powerful testimony by gates. yesterday he laid out a summer of what he was going to say. today the prosecution is using a maxim we use in journalism, "show, don't tell." the effect is really powerful because they are showing, for example, e-mails where paul manafort was complaining about his tax liability and wanting to reduce it. for example in 2014 there was an e-mail where manafort said, "i just saw this, wtf, how could i be blindsided by this," a higher tax bill than he thought would happen. his strategy was to lie and to say that income was in fact loans. and gates testified that he falsely created documents suggesting that income was loans

to essentially avoid taxes. i can't stress enough, andrea, how badly this trial appears to be going for paul manafort. a week ago the washington nationals were beating the new york mets 19-0 in the fifth inning. the mets had a chance to cam back, technically, but the mets won 5-4. that's what it feels like, there is a chance for the defense to make a case that gates is lying but there are these documents that seem to buttress what he's saying. it will be interesting to see how they cross-examine rick gates. >> i won't forget that game. the defense has had their chance at bat, to keep the metaphor going. joyce, what are you seeing, especially because of the very prominent role judge ellis is taking in keep the prosecution from what it seems to feel is key evidence? >> well, the prosecution would i guess to stay in tune, have to hit the ball completely out of the park to get an acquittal in this case.

and that would be difficult to do. what ken is talking about is precisely what everyone examined prosecutors to do with gates. they're using him in essence to give the jury access to paul manafort's own words through his e-mails. this morning the prosecution had gates discuss his e-mail exchanges with manafort where manafort in essence directed the illegal activity he's charged with. it will be difficult if not impossible for manafort to lay this one off on gates, even though the next thing the defense will have the chance to do is to thoroughly cross-examine gates, so we'll see how he holds up. >> franklin, you wrote this extraordinarily evocative portrait for "the atlantic" of manafort and how he was trying to relate to the jury. now, what we've seen and has been described is that he's kind of staring down rick gates, his former deputy, his pro toe jteg

former intern. >> if the documentary evidence against manafort is so strong, why hasn't he cut a deal with prosecutors? manafort has always had a sense of impunity, and when you watch him in the courtroom you do get the sense that manafort still believes, against all the evidence, that he can get away with it and that he can still win. >> and you described him, i just want to read a little bit of your description, after spending more than a month in lockup so he hadn't had access to the high style designers, but you wrote that while his hair maintains the same sweeping part, the edges are jagged in an imprecise, jailhouse barber way that the unincarcerated paul manafort would never abide. sitting at the defendant's table, he not infrequently -- i

love that, it captures so much right there. >> there's so much of his personality that's marched through this trial. this focus on his clothing. and i think the clothing does suggest something about the man. he wasn't just buying these things in order to launder money through these tailors. he was doing it because he had an obsession. he accumulated vast sums in the ukraine, yet it still wasn't enough for him. gates described this today, the way in which manafort by the year 2015 was in desperate financial straits. and so in those desperate straits he did desperate things, like lying to banks about loan applications. that trail led him to take this job with donald trump for free in 2016. >> for free, but of course he expected great payback down the road. >> of course. >> he lived in trump tower, was closely connected to trump.

but phil rucker, you say know better than anyone, the president has been trying to say oh, he was nothing, he was on the side, he was only there for a little while. >> and that's just not true. he was the chairman of the campaign. he was close to donald trump and had been around donald trump for years. but he was leading the trump campaign at a really critical moment. it was as trump was nearing the end of the republican primaries but had not yet sewn up the republican nomination. there was concern in trump's orbit that the establishment forces of the party would try to play a delegate game at the convention to install a different nominee. it was manafort who worked the system on behalf of trump at the convention and helped develop the strategy for the general election through that summer. so he was a key figure on the campaign. he saw a lot, he knew a lot. he was in a lot of meetings including that trump tower meeting with the russian lawyer. that's why he's of such great interest to robert mueller and the special counsel team investigating the russia component. >> ken dilanian, one of the

complicated things for the prosecution, as with any cooperator, is how to cloak him in sort of the -- i don't know, something that's acceptable to the jury, even though he's admitting to crimes and he's admitting to turning against his former boss and mentor. how does all that play out in the courtroom? >> that is absolutely their challenge, andrea. they don't expect the jury to like this guy. ayes a crimin he's a criminal and he's betraying his long time mentor. but they hope the jury will believe mr. gates. they did that by essentially being up front about all his bad acts. they went through all the crimes he's admitting to. he was indicted along with manafort for all these charges, and he said on the stand yesterday that i'm guilty of bank fraud and tax fraud. he described crimes he reported to prosecutors, including that he embezzled from mr. manafort

by padding expense accounts to tune of several hundred thousand dollars, and other things he did including being late for curfew and violating the conditions of his bail. nothing the defense can bring up that the jury hasn't already heard. prosecutors are hoping, again, they may not like him but they will believe him. >> and joyce, as someone who's been in the courtroom in these situations, when you've got a witness like this, what happens on cross-examination? their whole defense they laid out was it was all rick gates, not manafort. so he can expect a really tough cross-exam. >> it will, it will be a fierce cross-examination. their strategy will be to get underneath his skin, get him agitated and get him to make a mistake. presumably gates would have disclosed the embezzlement to the government will in advance

of this trial and perhaps manafort and his attorneys learned about it when they received discovery from the government, because the government is obligated to turn over all this information on gates to manafort. but there is a little bit of doubt here. perhaps gates was late to disclose this. and so if that in fact is the case, the later that he disclosed the embezzlement to the government, that might give manafort's lawyers some opportunity to cross-examine him. the bottom line here, andrea, is the government will suggest to the jury the reason they can trust gates is because the deal he is getting from the government is contingent on his truthful testimony during this trial. if he is found to have lied in any way, even in small detail, then he will lose the deal he has with the government, the greatly reduced sentence that he will expect the government to recommend for him. and that will be the circumstantial guarantee of gates' truthfulness. >> so just switching gears for just a moment, another figure

who reappeared over the weekend was hope hicks, traveling to ohio with the president and back. a lot of lawyers are suggesting that that really was not smart because she could subject herself to being reinterviewed by mueller. she and the president could have been talking with the president about the key explanation for the july 16th trump tower meeting that is of course such a key part of the mueller investigation. >> they could have been, andrea. we don't know if they were or not. regardless, the optics were very bad for hope hicks because of everything that's swirling around, because she was on the plane the very weekend there was this heightened focus on the trump tower meeting and the false explanation that the president dictated for his son. i know from my reporting that she was sort of there on a friendly visit. she's living in new york now, she's not looking to come back to join the trump white house in any official capacity. but she of course remains close

to the president. his daughter ivanka, son-in-law jared kushner, others on the white house staff, were taking advantage of being nearby to check in on them. >> thank you so much for being here. coming up, the last special election before the midterms. can an ohio democrat pull off the first upset over a republican in this district since the 1980s? nbc's steve kornacki, the one and only, joining us at the big board right here on "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. ng. hey dad. if he'd taken tylenol, he'd be stopping for more pills right now. only aleve has the strength stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. tylenol can't do that. aleve. all day strong.

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it's special election day in ohio. a key political test for president trump in a congressional district that has been reliably republican for years. president trump won it by 11 points in 2016. republicans, though, are now scrambling as democrats threaten to take the seat. this could be a clear warning for the gop depending on the outcome, of course, heading into the november midterms. >> we have an opportunity to send a message about what type of country we have, what type of economy we have, what type of health care system we have. these things are worth fighting for. >> we started this campaign in september and have been working relentlessly ever since. i feel good about it, i feel positive. we'll bring it to the finish

line. but yes, it is definitely tight. >> that's the matchup. joining me now, msnbc's garrett haake in ohio and nbc national news correspondent steve kornacki, at the big board at 30 rock. garrett, you've been watching this, how is it shaping up, is it all about turnout as most election days are? >> reporter: i'll save you the turnout cliche, andrea, but it is a big part of it, trying to figure out not just how many but who actually comes out to vote in this district. you talk about how reliably republican it's been for the last 30 years. one of the things i'm tracking on the ground and i know steve will talk about more, is this shift in the district. you've got exurban voters who are leaning more towards donald trump. then you have the suburbs closer to columbus like where i'm standing now. i'm hearing from republicans and conservative democrats who may have voted for republicans like john kasich, for example, whose

home political base is here in columbus, in the past, but they cannot get behind donald trump and they can't get behind his version of washington. you've got a democratic candidate who is not using any special sauce here, he's running on core democratic issues, leaving the trump bashing to others and saying if you want a more sane washington, vote for me. and it seems to be resonating. here is one voter i talked to about this this morning. >> i really think the republicans have just totally caved in to trump. we need a break from somebody like that. >> reporter: do you normally vote for republicans or democrats? >> i tend to be a conservative determine. >> reporter: was it something about o'connor or about trump and the republicans? >> this is more about sending a message. the republicans have to wake up, you know? if they're not going to be a break on this guy, then we vote for the other side. >> reporter: so andrea, bottom line, if that's the sentiment that prevails here, voters want

that check on donald trump. you might see a democrat go to washington from this district for the first time in a very long time. >> as i heard you say earlier, this is kind of the stefan of "snl," something for everyone. thanks, garrett, for setting us up. steve kornacki, let's take a closer look at how this breaks down. and especially balderson's stumble on the leave of the election, dissing voters in franklin county. >> it's interesting, balderson saying that is a gaffe, sure. but it reveals the giant cultural divide in this district. look at this 2016/2012 presidential result, it looks like nothing changed in four years. the reality is that everything changed politically in this district in the age of donald trump. here is what i mean. take a look at this map. these are the counties that all

or some of them are part of the district. balderson who says we don't want somebody from franklin county representing us, he was saying that in his political base, zanesville, blue color, working class, non-college whites who flock to trump. where balderson is from, this is his county here. when barack obama ran in 2012, barack obama won this portion of the district. when trump ran four years later, donald trump won it by 30 points, almost 30 points. so that swing, when balderson is saying that, he's talking about this part of the district. culturally this is light-years from zanesville. the columbus suburbs, we're talking upscale, college educated, white collar, professional class. hillary clinton won it by 20 points. this was a major swing. when barack obama ran in 2012, it was basically a tie in the franklin portion of the district. then clinton wins it by 20.

so there is a cultural and demographic chasm between these parts of the district. what are we looking for tonight? it's a question of how much energy, how much turnout is going to be here in what's become the democratic heart of this district. will that swamp everything? also these voters who went from obama to trump, are they still with trump and the republicans tonight? or are we starting to see them go back? >> steve, when are we going to see results tonight? >> 7:30 eastern, the polls close. by 8:00 we'll start to get it. one cautionary note, there is a lot of early absentee voting in this district. that is expected to be strongly democratic. i'll expect early on you'll see danny o'connor ahead probably by a wide margin. it doesn't mean the thing is over. it means those votes are being counted first. >> that's why we have to keep watching and watching and watching you through "the 11th hour" at least. >> i hope so. >> thank you, steve kornacki, we will all be there.

coming up, party down? how will president trump's support impact races around the country outside of ohio? you're watching "andrea mitchell reports," election central right here on msnbc. you're turning onto the street when you barely clip a passing car. minor accident - no big deal, right? wrong. your insurance company is gonna raise your rate after the other car got a scratch so small you coulda fixed it with a pen. maybe you should take that pen and use it to sign up with a different insurance company. for drivers with accident forgiveness liberty mutual won't raise their rates because of their first accident. liberty mutual insurance. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty ♪

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president trump, testing the limits of his popularity with the republican base, now supporting kris kobach, the controversial kansas secretary of state running against an incumbent governor, a republican from kansas, the president ignoring the advice of his own aids who are concerned that kris kobach is so unpopular. joining us now, the new co-host of the new "words matter" podcast. and jim massino, welcome both. what we're watching, violating what used to be the commandment of ronald reagan, you do not get involved in a primary and oppose another republican. >> that's the problem with donald trump, no one ever really knows exactly what he's going to do at any given moment.

while it seemed possible he might endorse kris kobach, he was advised against it because there is a sitting republican governor. donald trump has such strong views on his personal allies and the need to support people who strongly stuck with him, that you really can be nothing less than a trumpab so lawsuiti ab s his endorsement. >> people talk about the trump effect. there's really two trump effects. one inside the republican primary and one with general election voters. inside the republican primary voters, he's changing these races. >> look at florida recently with ron desantis. >> exactly right.

another race, former congressman adam putnam is by far the best general election candidate but trump endorsed a guy who can't win the general election. democrats are sitting back, having a great time, loving this, watching donald trump nominate people like kris kobach who probably can't win a general election. >> elise, what does this mean for the mitt romney, jeb bush traditional republicans? >> they're basically facing extinction if they're not already basically extinct. mark sanford of north carolina voted with the president pretty much all the time, and he was ousted in his primary. you see strong candidates like that that just even the slightest dissent against donald trump, they are no longer tolerated or welcomed in the republican party by donald

trump, who is, for better or worse but i would say for worse, the standard bearer these days for the republican party. >> and taking a page from "meet the press," chuck went through the data download, and wea've seen a big increase in the number of democrats voting since the midterms of 2014 through the june primaries, 13.6 million people voted in democratic primaries, that was an 84% increase over 2014. during that same period in republican primaries, there was also an increase, 10.4 million people voting. that was up 24% since 2014. now, we don't want to put too much stock in these numbers, but jim messina, what does this say to you about democrats' hopes in the midterms? >> that we're looking at a blue wave. in 2006 the democrats took the house for the first time in 12 years and took the senate for the first time in eight years. year seeing in race after race, 46 seats around the country have gone from red to blue in the past year. and in every single one of those

raises, including alabama, virginia governors, et cetera, you're seeing mammoth democratic turnout. tonight in ohio is another good bellwether. even if democrats don't win tonight, there are 60 congressional seats up in november that are more democratic than the seat that is currently tied in ohio. this blue wave is starting to look bigger and bigger. if dems win tonight, if you're a republican, you're in serious trouble. >> if you're a republican, elise, what are the issues you're hoping the democrats stumble on? let's say you're a traditional republican. some of the issues that they perhaps, if you look at danny o'connor in ohio, should not be talking about. they should not be talking about mueller, they should not be talking about trump under fire on these legal issues, they should be talking about pocketbook issues, right? >> right. and they shouldn't talk about abolishing i.c.e. they need to keep the strength away from donald trump on

security. it hasn't been resonating, these tax cuts. they only have been getting more unpopular with voters. so it's hard for republicans to brag about and laud the tax cuts and they're increasingly unpopular with the electorate. >> jim, i was listening to charlie cook last night with lawrence, i believe. is this now a case where this is a small blue wave, where let's say they win the house but by such a small number that you still have a center of gravity with mark meadows and jim jordan and the others in the freedom caucus and you can't get anything done, or it's a large blue wave? >> that's the question. history teaches us we're probably looking at somewhere between 25 and 50 seats. 25 would be a very small wave. they need 23 seats to take it back. usually the house moves back and forth on big waves. i think we're probably looking at somewhere north of 30. and that's still not a huge

majority for either party. i think what the country is saying is, we want to be able to work together, we want to put a brake on donald trump, he's starting to scare swing voters. and we'll see how big that wave is in november. >> of course the issue is whether this becomes a national race with trump as the main figure, but also whether democrats can figure out their own, you know, mood swings, let's say, between the progressive wing of the party, what happened in the bronx, and what happened in western pennsylvania with the conor lamb district, whether they can tailor their message to the districts rather than figure out their national message this far ahead of 2020, elise. >> you look at the candidates who have successfully navigated local races, and they have managed to, you know, speak to the concerns of their people. doug jones is the premier example of that, even though he was running against an historically terrible candidate

in roy moore. but also conor lamb, the other example you gave. if national democrats give space to local candidates to tailor their messages, they are in a much better place. >> jim messina and elise jordan, it's great to have you both, thanks to both of you very much. and now a terrible situation on our west coast, california, more than 14,000 firefighters are battling 18 major blazes across the state, one of which has become the biggest the state has ever seen. here is nbc's correspondent. >> reporter: this has become the largest fire in state history. some 450 square miles has now been torched. that's larger than new york city and philadelphia combined. this fire is 30% contained but still threatening 11,000

structures. it's a blowtorch on the front lines. firefighters say today they will be dealing with triple-digit weather. they say they won't is containment for a matter of weeks. back to you. >> miguel almaguer, thank you. the president tweeted about the wildfires, blaming environmental laws and water policy in california. we'll talk about that, and why instead of offering home, the president is criticizing california's governor, democrat jerry brown. when my hot water heater failed, she was pregnant, in-laws were coming, a little bit of water, it really- it rocked our world. i had no idea the amount of damage that water could do. we called usaa. and they greeted me as they always do. sergeant baker, how are you? they were on it. it was unbelievable. having insurance is something everyone needs,

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the trump administration is considering a plan that would make it harder for legal immigrants to become citizens or to get green cards if they've ever used a variety of public welfare or social programs. in a nbc news exclusive report, immigration lawyers say it would be the biggest change to the legal immigration system in decades, impacting more than 20 million immigrants. let's get the inside scoop from nbc's national security and justice reporter julia ainsley. jeff mason from reuters and ruth marcus, "washington post" editorial page editor and columnist. how close to reality is this

change, julia? >> pretty close, andrea. we understand this will be published in the federal register in coming weeks. it doesn't need to go through congress. what they're doing is redefining the term "public charge" that was first used in the 1800s, think ellis island time. they didn't want immigrants coming in who would be a burden on the country and not able to support themselves. but under this new rule, they would vastly expand that definition, meaning that any immigrant likely to become a public charge, whether they themselves have been on a social program or someone in their family has or their household, that could now be used against them getting citizenship or green cards. these are people who entered the u.s. legally and are following the steps. what a lot of immigration lawyers have pointed out is the programs on this list, the drafts that have been described, it seems that the programs actually would increase that poverty level. right now if you make about 125% of the poverty level, that may hurt you getting a green card or

citizenship. now when you throw in programs like obamacare, you could make as much as 250% above the poverty level and still have a hard time getting citizenship. again, obamacare, s.n.a.p., food stamps for a lot of families, as well as some tax credits they've been using for some time. these are all things that a lot of migrant families depend on, particularly when they're doing low wage jobs that a lot of people born in the united states don't want to take. >> ruth, this goes against the whole -- well, more than 100 years of history of what we -- how we treat immigrants and how we welcome them to our shores and how we provide these basic support systems. >> you know, the mean-spiritedness of the trump administration, particularly when it comes to immigration policy, just seems to know no limits. we see the parents and children. we saw this just appalling story of the wife of a veteran, service members being deported

after years of living -- >> separating a family. >> separating families. and now this, which is -- one of the examples in julia's story which she didn't mention is the immigrant father of an american citizen, who the american citizen daughter is disabled. and so she receives public benefits. she was born here. she is entitled to those benefits. but that is being used or potentially being used against the father. we're a better country than this. and it's just appalling. >> jeff, what is the political resonance of this, though, does it reverberate in the midterms and in other ways? how do you see it being a benefit to the white house to continue doing this? >> it certainly might reverberate. one of the key points here is the word "legal." these are immigrants who came to the country legally. when the president cracks down or uses rhetoric against illegal immigration, that's very popular with the base. but talking along these same

lines and following this program that stephen miller, one of the president's top advisers, has been pushing, also attacks in a way these legal immigrants, because they want to reduce the number of people who are here or are allowed to stay here legally. that could resonate with the base as well. >> julia and team, i also want to talk about what we referenced earlier. we saw the devastation in california, the wildfires, the worst in state history. the president tweeting today and blaming jerry brown, the beleaguered governor, saying he must allow the vast amounts of water coming from the north to not be foolishly diverted into the pacific ocean. i don't know what he's talking about, but apparently, julia, this is a republican issue and has nothing to do with fighting the fires. >> yeah, i mean, this is an

example of a president who is taking anything that's making headlines, whether they be natural disasters, and using them to try to pull in people to -- and really make these issues divisive and make them very political. i never thought of a wildfire as political before but it seems we're able to make it that way in this case. and especially if you think about certain districts in california that are major swing districts going into the midterms, it seems that this would resonate as really annum pathetic twe the-- an unempathe. >> peter gleick wrote that the idea that somehow state water policies are leading to a shortage of water for fighting the fires is too stupid to rebut. "the los angeles times" writes that the most likely explanation is that the president is confused by demands for more i

go -- for more irrigation water he's hearing from republican officeholders in california. fire agencies haven't been complaining about a lack of water, especially water, quote, diverted to the pacific. >> the key thing there is the firefighters are not complaining about a lack of water, that is simply not the issue. there is a dispute in california about water policy between republicans and governor brown, about water that's being diverted for agriculture and water that's going to the ocean to help keep up and replenish fish stocks. but that is a separate issue. it is not related to fires. >> it has nothing to do with fires. and by the way, could we point out that people are losing their homes, people -- firefighters are losing their lives, others whose job is not to fight fires, family members, homeowners, are losing their lives.

why do we not hear any hint, i know this is a dumb way to ask the question, but why is there not any inter ohint of empathy e president for these americans who are in harms way? he only knows how to point fingers at political opponents. >> we've also asked the white house for clarification on that. and we got nothing. >> you got nothing. and the fact is he's on his beautifully manicured estate in new jersey where i'm sure there's no shortage of water. julia, it seems to me water has been an issue in california ever since the movie "chinatown" which wrote about the water disputes in the '20s and '30s. anyway, thank you all. julia, congratulations on another big exclusive for n nbcnews.com. >> thank you. coming up, short term solution. the white house continues to chip away at obamacare, now touting cheap medical plans that

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president trump lost his battle to kill obamacare in a series of votes in congress. now he's trying to undermine it administratively by letting insurance companies sell scale down, bare bones plans that do not include basic coverage, including pre-existing conditions. that would eliminate coverage for as many as 20 million people. critics are calling this junk insurance. >> reporter: for the 28 million uninsured americans, short-term health plans may sound like an attract imalternative. certainly the trump administration is playing up the positive. >> they may be as much as 50% to 80% cheaper than the obamacare exchange plan. >> reporter: for example, in los angeles, short. term premiums start at i$141 a month versus $264 for the cheapest obamacare policy. critics warn you get what you pay for. >> people really need to know

exactly what's in these policies. the reason they're inexpensive is because they don't cover very much. >> reporter: what don't they cover? the kaiser family foundation found 43% offer no mental health coverage. 62% don't cover substance abuse treatment. 71% don't cover outpatient prescription drugs. and 100%, all of them, don't cover maternity care. the policies may also contain annual or lifetime benefit caps. unlike obamacare plans. we reached out to some of america's largest insurance providers, but none would comment on camera. in a statement, america's health insurance plans, an industry trade group, said consumers should clearly understand what their plan does and does not cover. the new requirement for short-term plans to make clearer disclosures to consumers is an important improvement. that knowledge, critics say, is crucial. >> in the case of a lot of cancer patients, when they get a cancer diagnosis, they found out they were not covered for things they thought they were going to

be covered for. that's the problem. >> reporter: critics fear the alternative plans could divide insurance risk pools. with younger healthier people opting for short-term coverage, while driving up premiums on obamacare plans because they have older, sicker patients. >> the better solution would be to have everybody in the same insurance pool. >> nbc's anne thompson joining us now. anne, that was the whole theory behind the obamacare, the american health insurance plan, to have the larger insurance pool. so you, you know, scale back the cost for everyone. >> right, that's why there was individual mandate, andrea, so that younger, healthier people, would pay into that insurance pool. now, because that mandate has been repealed and now because they have extended the time that these short-term policies can be offered under obamacare, you could only get these short-term health care policies or -- under the obama administration, could only get these short-term health

care policies for three months. now the trump administration is saying you can get them for a year and you can extend to three years. so the fear is that people will go and buy these policies because they'll buy them on price, not looking at what's covered, and if they get sick, they're going to find out these policies don't cover very much. >> democrats are at least talking about making this a big issue in the midterms because it is a significant change in what was obamacare. i don't know if you have seen that on the road in terms of a political debate, but it really is a basic issue that democrats say they're going to embrace. >> it is. and the other thing to remember about these short-term health care policies is that they don't cover pre-existing conditions. and that was one of the big benefits or one of the big positives that obamacare stressed, is that policies, then, did have to cover pre-existing conditions. with these policies, they don't

cover pre-existing conditions. some may offer a $500 benefit or some kind of coverage eventually, but they will cost you more. but as far as these bare-bone policy, no pre-existing conditions. and that will be an issue for a lot of americans. >> and how do they define pre-existing conditions? >> anything you had before. if you had cancer, if you had diabetes, if you had a heart attack before, that would not be covered under these policies. >> a really important consumer warning. thank you, anne thompson, great to see you. thanks for being with us. and coming up, much more with craig melvin. it was here. i couldn't catch my breath. it was the last song of the night. it felt like my heart was skipping beats. they said i had afib. what's afib? i knew that meant i was at a greater risk of stroke. i needed answers. my doctor and i chose xarelto® to help keep me protected from a stroke.

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that does it for today. tomorrow, we will have all the election results with chuck todd, right here from "meet the press." and remember follow the show @andreamitchell. >> i missed the big celebration, 40 years, congrats. >> 40 and counting. >> 40 more to go, my friend. good to see you. craig melvin here at msnbc headquarters in new york. whom do you believe? right now, paul manafort's right-hand man is on the stand walking jurors through not only manafort's financial crimes but his own role in those crimes. so whose story will the jurors buy? also, voice of the people.

an ohio congressional seat up for grabs. should be a win for republicans. the party's held it for more than three decades. president trump won the district by 11 points. but it's neck and neck. what it all could mean for november. also, record-setting wildfires. fires burning in northern california. nearly the size of los angeles. the biggest in the history of that state. are bad environmental laws to blame for the fast-moving blaze like the president suggests? we'll dig into that in just a bit. but we start with what may be the biggest day of testimony in the paul manafort trial. later today, the defense expected to cross examine the prosecution's key witness rick gates. today and monday, manafort' key deputy testified how he hid his money from the irs. but he had made an important admission the defense is likely to harp on today.