>> this is your friendly friday reminder. our podcast, why is this happening, why not check out some of the episodes we already have on, from mass incarceration, school segregation in 2018, political tribalism. we talk about it all. this week we have nancy to talk about the past and future of roe v. wade. i'm from new york following breaking news out of seattle. a small commuter plane carrying no passengers crashed after

unauthorized takeoff from seattle airport. the county sheriff says the turbo plane was stolen and doing stunts when it crashed about four hours ago. >> there's no indication there was any attempt to attack anybody or anything other than taking an airplane without permission. stealing an airplane and flying it around. apparently the person had enough training, enough sense or whatever to be able to maneuver it somewhat. this might have been a joyride gone terribly wrong. >> two f-15 military jets jaced the airplane but did not cause it to crash on a small island on puget sound. video captured from the ground as it flew past. no reports of casualties on the ground, where the plane crashed or damage. authorities have not identified the mechanic but say he's a

29-year-old male from pierce county, washington. a statement was posted on youtube. >> i'm sorry to share with you this evening that at approximately 8:00 p.m. one of our q400 airplanes made an unauthorized takeoff from sea-tac airport. we believe it was taken by a single horizon employee and no other passengers or crew were onboard. our hearts are with the family of the individual aboard as well as al of our alaska air and horizon air employees. >> the national transportation safety board will investigate. we'll keep you posted on the latest developments. i'm dara brown, now to "dateline." i didn't do it. something's doing a? job on me. >> any vendetta against stephen avery. >> absolutely not.

>> interrogation overturned. >> a confession. >> we need you to be honest. >> right from wrong. >> those officers wanted that information in the worst way. they got it in the worst way. >> the prosecutor fights back with an explosive people. >> people are going to hear the other side of the story. >> and a promise from steven avery's high-powered new attorney. >> do you think you have new evidence that could free steven avery? >> we do. welcome to "dateline." it's an extraordinary case that defies easy answers. at the center of it all, steven avery. he and his teenaged nephew were convicted in the brutal murder of theresa malbook, then investigators forced to fight

back. two sides. one truth. who will you believe? >> reporter: the mystery of what happened here in the sprawling fields of rural wisconsin captivated the country. >> we the jury find the defendant steven a. avery guilty. >> reporter: in 2016, convincing many both convicted of murder railroaded by law enforcement. it's a case "dateline" has been following for more than a decade as their lawyers worked tirelessly to free them from prison, we pose the questions everyone's been asking, to do men who help put avery and dassey behind bars. >> why would steven avery do this? >> a great question. >> we speak with ken kratz who has writ an book revealing his provocative theory, that steven

avery made himself a murderer. >> steven avery started planning this event the day he went to prison. >> we talk with tom fassbender, a lead investigator under fire for this controversial interrogation. >> you've stayed silent through the firestorm. why are you sitting here today? >> finally realize that someone needed to speak out to bring forward the truth of what happened. >> reporter: so what did happen here? our story begins with the woman at heart of this case. a 25-year-old photographer from kaukauna, wisconsin, named theresa halbach. >> she loved being behind the camera. >> reporter: kim peter sson and she became friends in college. kim said theresa had a special way with her suspects. >> she loved to make other people smile. >> reporter: the two stayed in touch an graduation as they launched their careers, but that

would all change suddenly in too 2005. >> the 25-year-old photographer on assignment for "auto trader" magazine when she disappeared. >> my heart dropped knowing it was somebody i knew. >> reporter: quickly a massive search was launched. after two days a big break. >> we have found -- >> reporter: they found her vehicle. >> reporter: tom fassbender then a special agent hustled to the stretch of land, home to the salvage yard and auto mechanic steven avery. >> are you heard his name before? >> only through the media. >> reporter: steven avery was a big storied convicted of rape in 1985, but 18 years later, dna evidence exonerated him and he

was freed a wrongfully convicted man welcomed back into society with open arms and looking for justice of his own. >> oh god! >> reporter: were you aware he filed a lawsuit against the local sheriff's department. >> i heard that. >> reporter: avery hoped winning the $36 million lawsuit would help him get back on his feet. >> he had an opportunity to make something of his life and was headed in tra direction. >> reporter: now two years after being released from prison this poster boy was back in the news and not in a good way. >> i hope she comes back so she can go back to her family. >> reporter: when fassbender arrived on site he learned theresa halbach at an appoint to take photos of a van avery's sister was selling. theresa left a message that morning. >> this is theresa with "auto auction" magazine.

i were come out in the afternoon around 2:00. >> reporter: steven avery confirmed to investigators theresa had been on the property that day and left around 2:30 p.m. avery didn't tell them much more, but for investigators, a dark tale started emerging from the physical evidence. especially when they made a gruesome discovery in the back of theresa the suv. >> we found theresa's blood in the vehicle prime hairly in the cargo air. >> reporter: and in the front more blood. >> there was blood, some of the upholstery and very telling swipe of blood near the ignition switch of the vehicle. >> reporter: tests showed that blood was steven avery's, taking him from person of interest to prime suspect. >> you believe you can explain the blood? steven avery? >> yes. absolutely. steven avery had a cut on his right-hand middle finger that was freshly scabbed over, and if you took that key and put it in that ignition switch and lined

up perfectly with a contact pattern sweep. >> how did he explain cut? >> i'm not sure if i remember that. i think he claimed he cut it in the yard doing work on vehicles. >> reporter: fassbender feared the worse. after four days of severance his team found something disturbing. >> what appeared to be bone fragments. >> reporter: human bones. most interesting, because family members told investigators that steven avery had built a bonfire hours after theresa hadn't been at the yard that day. >> huge bonfire. flames from the edge of the roof on the garage. >> reporter: was it all making sense to you? >> looking at the whole picture, absolutely. >> reporter: and that picture came into sharper focus when fas bender's team found another clue, theresa's key inside avery's bedroom. >> a key connected to a fob. >> reporter: this is huge.

>> it's huge. >> reporter: especially when his dna was found on it. the evidence was stacking up against steven avery and fassbender says that rav4 would later them investigators one last thing. >> we tested the hood latch and found dna matching avery on the hood latch. >> reporter: avery had explaining to do. nine days after theresa's disappearance he and his partner brought avery in for an interview. we obtained the video. >> he was in your bedroom. you know the key is there because you put the key there. >> reporter: avery was defiant and claimed cops were framing him, planting evidence. >> no way. the cops put that evidence there. >> reporter: they weren't buying it and placed steven avery under arrest arrest. >> i didn't do it. somebody's doing a good job on me. >> reporter: investigators were

convinced they had their man. still, they didn't know how or why theresa had been killed. coming up, shackle, handcuffs. strange behavior. >> theresa's creeped out. >> reporter: could something in his past have led him to murder? when "dateline" continues. ♪ protect your pet with the #1 name in flea and tick protection. frontline plus. trusted by vets for nearly 20 years.

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in a two-hour window so you're up and running in no time. show me decorating shows. this is staying connected with xfinity to make moving... simple. easy. awesome. stay connected while you move with the best wifi experience and two-hour appointment windows. click, call or visit a store today. >> in january, steven avery pleaded not guilty and ken kratz began chronicling his case. >> what do you feel people know the least about in this case? >> the book is about steven avery that is setting forth a better representation of what the real evidence was. >> better, he says, than the way the evidence was presented in "making a murderer." for the first time, kratz lays out his theory with new details

he's never shared before. for one thing, kratz tells "dateline" he believes steven avery had set his sights on teresa halbach in the weeks leading up to her murder. >> as we move closer to october 31st, we see steven's behavior changing. >> as kratz got auto trader's record, he learned teresa had made five earlier visits to the salvage yard to take photos, some at steven avery's request. >> he starts making calls directly to teresa halbach. >> and kratz determined on the day before one of these visits, avery purchased these shackles and handcuffs. >> when teresa arrives -- >> he answers the door wearing a small white towel. and teresa, we know is creeped out by that behavior. she tells friends and co-workers about that. >> kratz believes avery's behavior shows signs of a sexual obsession with teresa that led

to murder. >> why would steven avery do this when he was on the verge of getting this big windfall, potentially millions of dollars? >> that's a great question. you know, i don't know. we know he's a psychopath. we know that he has -- >> do we know that? >> well, i -- let's say, i allege that. i believe that, deep down. >> kratz discovered more in avery's past. 18 years before teresa's murder, avery wrote this letter to his estranged wife from prison, saying, i will kill you. and a former fiancee told police he had physically abused her. and kratz said he learned something even more disturbing. this 2006 police report accuses avery of raping a teenage girl. it all together for kratz. he believed avery had developed a deep resentment of women which had started with his wrongful conviction and had only grown over the years.

>> he has no remorse for his behavior, feels incredibly entitled. >> but as he continued to investigate the case, kratz had a problem. >> you still didn't know how she was killed, exactly where she was killed. was that bothering you? >> yes, but sometimes you have what you have. it was all coming together in bits and pieces. >> he and his team kept digging until they got a big lead. >> have a seat. >> in march, 2006, four months after teresa's murder, tom fassbender spoke with avery's 16-year-old nephew in a series of highly scrutinized interviews. >> what was your opinion of brendan dassey? >> a shy kid, somewhat introverted. >> but once he opened up, the details he revealed would stun investigators. >> what else did he do to her? >> raped her. >> did he tell you that?

>> fassbender says dassey described a brutal scene. on that halloween afternoon, his uncle asked him to come over to his trailer. dassey said they each sexually assaulted teresa in avery's bedroom. and avery later shot her in his garage, burning her body in the bonfire. >> it's a game-changer. he told us stuff we weren't really aware of, like teresa was shot in the garage and had died there. >> and after speaking about dassey, fassbender had his team return to the avery property once more. and they found this in his garage, a bullet fragment. >> and that was missed the first time around. >> well, i guess i could say it was missed. but you're talking about a bullet fragment, looks like a piece of dirt probably. >> and it was tested? >> it was tested. >> and do you now believe that teresa was shot in that garage? >> yes. >> one strange thing, though, when they searched the garage for blood, they never found a drop.

>> how could you clean up all that blood? >> well, he did it to the best of his ability, i guess. bleach, paint thinner. >> teresa's friend kim said when she heard the details about teresa's final moments, she was heart broken. >> i remember crying and just hoping she was who she was and fought. because she was a very strong person. >> ken kratz charged brendan dassey as a co-conspirator in her murder. >> i intend to hold each of these defendants accountable for the rape, the torture, and the murder of teresa halbach. >> but not so fast. dassey recanted his statements. just before avery's trial, the judge dismissed the rape charge against him and didn't allow any of those allegations about avery's treatment of women, saying they didn't prove anything about teresa's murder. and avery was never charged with assaulting his ex-fiancee or with raping the teen.

to this day, he denies all the allegations. and those handcuffs and shackles, no evidence ever linked them to teresa. still, in the spring of 2007, juries convicted both dassey and avery of murdering teresa. they were each sentenced to life in prison. >> you are probably the most dangerous individual ever to set foot in this courtroom. >> it seemed like the avery saga had ended. but eight years later, "making a murderer" would put fassbender, kratz, and their entire team in the hot seat. coming up -- >> did they plant evidence? >> sure, they did. >> was steven avery framed? >> is it possible that that blood could have been planted? >> when "dateline" continues. ib from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? most pills don't finish the job because they don't relieve nasal congestion. flonase sensimist is different. it relieves all your worst symptoms, including nasal congestion,

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in december, 2015, netflix released "making a murderer" and it ignited a bonfire over the convictions of avery and dassey.

now many viewers believe the claims avery had been making all along, that he was framed by law enforcement. >> who would want to set you up in something like this? >> the only thing i can think of it manitowoc county with the money, so they wouldn't have to pay nothing out. >> did they plant evidence? sure they did. >> kim is avery's cousin. she said she predicted something bad might happen to him after he was exonerated in the rape case. he had recently filed a lawsuit against his local sheriff's department for his wrongful conviction. >> i did tell him, manitowoc wasn't done with him. >> why did you tell him that? >> something told me they weren't going to hand steve avery $36 million or any kind of money, that they were going to be watching him and look what happened. >> avery settled that lawsuit for $400,000 before his trial. the county did not acknowledge any wrongdoing.

he used the money to hire his defense attorneys, dean strang, and jerry butting. >> we knew going in it was going to be a difficult defense. >> we spoke to butting in early 2016. >> we had a very tough defense in this case, because nobody wants to try and use as a defense that the police deliberately tried to plant evidence or frame somebody. >> it goes against society. those people are there to help us, they're the police. >> right. but it's where we thought the evidence pointed. >> avery's attorneys believed the fact that officers from the county he was suing were part of the search, made for a huge conflict of interest and for possible mischief at the crime scene. >> what i can say from the evidence i've looked at, i think he was innocent, is innocent. >> preparing for trial, butting learned about a vial of avery's blood left over from his

overturned rape conviction which had been sitting in the county clerk's office. >> and saw that there was still a sty row foam box that had been slit open with evidence tape. >> that's really the big a-ha moment? >> yeah, it was. >> and for many viewers, it was the a-ha moment in "making a murderer." the attorneys theorize that someone could have poked a hole in that vial and spread avery's blood inside teresa's suv. >> and your theory is that the key was planted in the residence? >> that is where we thought the evidence was pointing. >> by the police? >> by someone. we're talking about a trailer. it didn't add up. >> co-lead investigator tom fassbender worked with local

sheriff's deputies but was employed by a different agency -- the wisconsin department of justice. this is the first time he's responded publicly to the accusations against him and his law enforcement colleagues. >> did you have any kind of vendetta against steven avery? >> absolutely not. i didn't know steven avery, didn't know his family. never been there. >> fassbender bristles at the idea the local investigators could have done anything unethical. >> the people that were there that i worked with were hard-working. they only wanted to do the right thing and to do this investigation the right way. >> is it possible that that blood could have been planted? >> no. everything, all the evidence says no. >> fassbender notes that a chemical called edta had been used to preserve avery's blood in the vial. and that at trial, tests showed no presence of avery's blood found in the suv. >> it didn't match. >> fassbender's argument, since that blood found in the vehicle didn't contain the chemical, it couldn't have come from the vial. and he notes that a nurse was prepared to testify she had made that hole in the vial as part of her usual routine when she drew

blood from avery. >> so the fact that there was a hole in the top of the vial is normal. >> and regarding teresa's car key, not found until the seventh search of avery's trailer -- >> why was that key missed during the other searches? >> primarily because of where it was located in a small bookcase that wasn't searched. >> why not do the thorough search earlier? >> i guess part of it is because we didn't lock and load on steven avery. we went in there, did that first search, but we had 12 more buildings and four more residences to search. so we had a lot to do. >> still, it wasn't just when the key was found that has avery supporters skeptical. it's who found it. these two men. lieutenant james lenk and sergeant andrew colburn of the manitowoc sheriff's department. turned out, they had just been deposed in avery's lawsuit. >> well, they were deposed, that we later found out.

>> do you think that maybe just them by nature, being with manitowoc that maybe they haven't have been in there at all, just to avoid all of this speculation? >> it's easy to arm chair quarterback and second guess. i think we would have done that maybe if we had the resources. but you're talking about a small, rural county, being assisted by another smaller rural county. you need resources. >> steven avery says these guys had it out for me. that whole department was angry at me. this was the perfect opportunity for them to have access to my trailer, plant the key. >> i never absolutely saw that. never saw that from anyone in manitowoc county. >> fassbender says he believes a conspiracy to frame avery would have been virtually impossible to carry out. >> i could go on and on about the planting defense and how absurd it is, with the multiple agencies that we had in there. >> i'm your friend right now. >> but it was that video of brendan dassey which would

really put fassbender at the center of the storm. an interrogation so controversial it might get avery's nephew out of prison. >> how much of brendan dassey's confession was true? coming up -- >> those officers wanted that information in the worst way, and they got it in the worst way. >> when "dateline" continues. any object. any surface. if you've got a life you gotta swiffer can be used almost everywhere on almost everybody. like the fingers of a flight attendant.

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the hour's top stories, u.s.

welcome back to "dateline." i'm craig melvin. investigators deny they framed steven avery for the murder of teresa halbach. afterall, his nephew, brendan, confessed. but did he tell detectives the truth or what he thought they wanted to hear? here with more of our story is andrea canning. >> all the renewed attention in the steven avery saga has shed light on the other defendant in the case -- brendan dassey. the teenager had been convicted of rape and murder, but to his family, none of it ever made any sense. >> and brendan someone capable of rape? >> no. no. i don't even think he knew what that was at the time. >> in 2008, attorneys took up dassey's case for his appeal. they saw a mentally challenged

teen with a low iq. >> how do you spell garage? >> g-a-r-a-g-e. >> what did you think of brendan dassey when you were able to meet him in person? >> brendan is a simple soul. i was struck by his humanity. this is not somebody i could see committing a crime like that. >> that's the psychological power of interrogation. >> the two attorneys are based at the northwestern school of law outside chicago. they've worked to free a number of wrongfully convicted defendants and say what they learned about dassey's case astounded them. >> nobody was in brendan dassey's corner at the moment he needed help the most. >> beginning, they say, with this man. >> gimme one word to describe len kachinsky. >> unbelievable. >> unconscionable. >> he came on board to -- and they discovered he had made legal mistakes that caused him to be removed from the case. >> is it okay if i read you some of the comments? >> sure, go ahead. >> disgusting human being. disgrace to the wisconsin judicial system, a man with a

sickened soul. >> i've seen it. >> in one instance, kachinsky, working to cut a plea deal, had arranged for his client to speak with investigators, but kachinsky himself didn't show up. >> that was clearly a mistake. >> this is huge, though. >> i agree. >> you have a 16-year-old kid with a low iq, with no attorney present, no parent. it's kinda like feeding someone to the wolves in a way. would you apologize to brendan dassey? >> well, i'd apologize to him for not being at that interview. >> so there were mistakes made? >> sure, there were mistakes, but none of them contributed to the verdict in dassey's case. >> there are people who disagree with that. >> oh, sure. >> but as dassey's attorneys delve further into the stunning statements the teen made, they came to believe something more

disturbing -- that investigators tom fassbender and mark wiegert had coerced the teen into making a false confession. >> these officers took advantage of a disabled youth and got him to say what they wanted him to say. >> don't lie to us now, okay? come on. what happened there. >> just hurting yourself if you lie now. >> he's got severe learning disabilities, inability to respond in narrative-type answers. and they're in precisely the areas that make him vulnerable to the kind of tactics the officers used in this case. >> the attorneys say the investigators manipulated with coaxing statements like these from fassbender who was seated just off-camera. >> i'm your friend right now. it's all right. you are doing the right thing. >> they should never have made

those kinds of suggestions, that they wanted to comfort him. that all would be well. those kinds of tactics when used on a kid like brendan are a recipe for false confessions. >> and they say the investigators manipulation of the teen escalated far beyond simple coaxing. >> the officers needed brendan to provide information that only the real killer would know. and they knew what they wanted him to say. they accused the investigators of planting details about the crime in dassey's mind, to get the answers they wanted. for example, remember steven avery's dna found on the car hoot latch? the attorneys say investigators asked dassey leading questions to confirm that his uncle had looked under the hood of the car? >> did he raise the hood at all or anything like that, to do something to the car? >> yeah. >> what did he do under the

hood, if that's what he did? >> i don't know what he did, but i know he went under. >> and dassey's attorney say in that same interview, the investigators used another crucial detail they learned from the case from the forensics. >> tell us what else did you do, something with the head. >> they had received a report from the wisconsin crime lab, indicating for the first time, how teresa halbach had died. she had been shot in the head. they worked extremely hard to get brendan to say that. >> we have the evidence, brendan. we just need you to be honest with us. >> they cut off her hair. >> what else was done to her head? >> they punched her. >> what else? it's okay. >> cut her. >> what else happened to her, in her head? >> extremely, extremely important you tell us this. for us to believe you. >> come on, brendan.

what else? >> that's all i can remember. >> all right, i'm just gonna come out and ask you, who shot her in the head? >> he did. >> why didn't you tell us that? >> because i couldn't think of it. >> those officers wanted that information in the worst way, and they got it in the worst way. by feeding it straight to brendan dassey. >> even they know that that's bad police practice. >> then they discovered something at the end of that interview which was a revelation to them, something jurors in his trial never heard. dassey speaking to his mother. >> i never did nothing. >> did you? >> not really. >> what do you mean, not really? >> at the first moment that brendan gets outside the influence of those interrogators, he says, nope, this is not true, they got to my

head. >> but tom fassbender, the interrogator himself sees it all very differently. >> coming up -- >> this was seen by many as a false confession. >> i feel it was a real confession. he knew right from wrong. brendan was involved in this. >> when "dateline" continues. today... back pain can't win. now introducing aleve back and muscle pain. only aleve targets tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. aleve back & muscle. all day strong. all day long. i'start at the new carfax.comar. show me minivans with no reported accidents. boom. love it. [struggles] show me the carfax. start your used car search at the all-new carfax.com. until i held her. managing my type 2 diabetes wasn't my top priority. i found my tresiba® reason.

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for his interrogation of brendan dassey, now seen by millions, tom fassbender has come under fire in court and online. >> this was scene by many as a false confession. do you see it as a false confession or a real confession? >> i feel it was a real confession. >> were you ever trying to extract a false confession from him? >> absolutely not. >> fassbender denies that his expressions of sympathy for dassey were manipulative.

>> i legitimately was concerned for him. that wasn't staged, that wasn't strategy. >> why do you think people took it the other way, the more sinister way? that you were taking advantage of him? >> i think that's easy to do. from -- it's a cynical approach, so to speak, watching tv, watching movies, how cops are depicted on those movies, trying to trick people into saying stuff. everything about the interview with brendan was soft, was comfortable. >> but comfortable might not be a word dassey's supporters would use, especially given his age and intelligence level. >> what about his iq? because when you watch him, you can tell that he has a lower iq. >> i don't -- i don't know his iq. >> could you tell that he maybe wasn't like other boys his age? >> more socially probably. i don't know how to cross the iq social line, but he could think and he knew right from wrong. >> is it possible that he's easily manipulated?

>> it's possible. >> he sounded confused at times. >> quite possibly. >> he didn't know what was up and down. i don't know, just watching it. >> i don't know about that. >> my thought is, he had a million things going on in his head at that time. >> fassbender resists charges that he and his partner inappropriately planted ideas in dassey's head, like in that exchange about the hood latch. >> what did he do under the hood, if that's what he did? >> what did brendan say? >> he agreed that steven had gone under there. >> you used word agreed. >> yeah. >> so you brought it up first. >> i believe so. >> that's one of the areas that you came under fire for. >> yes. >> that you were planting things in his mind. >> yes, that's what they said. and there were instances that we did ask him specifically about things, yes. and that can happen in an interview.

>> can we take that as a reliable answer given awe it was spoon-fed to them. >> their side would argue no. and i would say, based on the entirety of the interview, i would say yes. >> and as for the other moment that has angered so many followers of the case. >> i'm going to come out and ask you, who shot her in the head? >> he did. >> any regrets about that? bringing it up yourselves, about putting that in his head? >> there's always things that you can improve on. there were instances because of brendan's personality that, yeah, we had to talk to him about and ask more specifically certain questions. and it happens. >> what do you say to those people who have made you part of this big discussion about false confessions and who are yelling at their tvs because they didn't like the job that you did? >> just that it's easy to arm chair quarterback. it's easy to second-guess.

that i -- that's partly why i'm here, to explain that there was nothing nefarious done. >> but even fassbender wonders if everything dassey said in the confession was true. >> we didn't try to manipulate brendan. we tried to get at the truth. and i don't believe that it was a false confession. are there parts of it that he may have not done? i don't know. you know, i just don't know. >> in august of 2016, a federal judge weighed in with a bombshell. in response to a brief filed by dassey's attorneys, judge william duffin ruled that brendan dassey's confession was involuntary. with that, the judge overturned his conviction and ordered dassey to be released from prison. >> what was that like for you, hearing that news? >> mixed emotions. i know we did everything above

board, that one magistrate rules that it isn't fine, in his opinion, which is all right. because that's the system. >> are you okay if we walks free? >> i'm not okay if the family's not okay. i believe brendan was involved in this. that he was there and he was involved in it. >> the wisconsin attorney general also believes brendan was involved in teresa's murder. he appealed the judge's order for release, asking a full panel of federal judges to review the case. in september of 2017, that request was granted. the seventh circuit u.s. court of appeals heard evidence about whether dassey's confession was coerced. nine weeks later, the seven-judge panel ruled that his confession was voluntary, meaning the young man will remain in prison. dassey's lawyers have vowed to appeal the decision to the u.s. supreme court.

>> coming up -- >> he told me to watch "dateline." >> how a 6-year-old "dateline" led to a brand-new attorney. >> i said, that's the man that's going to get steven out of prison. >> when "dateline" continues.

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as brendan dassey awaits his

fate, steven avery and his supporters hope for good news in his case. >> he's very gentle and very loving. >> sandy greenman is avery's long time friend and one-time fiancee. convinced of his innocence, she said she searched for years to find the right attorney to take on his case. during a call from prison, avery told her to watch "dateline." >> he had heard that there was going to be this ryan ferguson case on "dateline." he told me to watch it, just to see the lawyer. >> that "dateline" program from during a call from prison, avery told her to watch "dateline." >> he had heard that there was going to be this ryan ferguson case on "dateline." he told me to watch it, just to see the lawyer. >> that "dateline" program from august 2011, told the story of ryan ferguson, a young man sitting in prison for a murder he said he didn't commit. attorney kathleen zellner was determined to get him out. >> nothing's as riveting as this, when the trial's been lost, everything's been lost, and you've got something that's the ultimate challenge, i think. >> i said, that's the woman that's going to get steven out of prison. >> zellner specializes in

wrongful conviction cases and says she's freed 18 defendants, including ryan ferguson. sandy contacted her and she joined the case not long after "making a murderer" came out. we caught up with zellner at the correctional institute when she paid a visit to avery in 2016. >> million dollar question. do you think you have new evidence that could free steven avery? >> we do, yeah. >> zellner invited "dateline" into this war room she created in her office outside chicago. all dedicated to the avery case. >> do we know if that was tested? >> and she even showed us that rav4 she bought to get a better understanding of teresa's vehicle. then in august 2016, to much media fanfare, she filed a motion in manitowoc county court, seeking new testing of the evidence. >> we're going to find out one way or the other was the evidence planted. >> kathleen zellner is known as an aggressive defense attorney. >> she's looking for new evidence to argue the entire

case was done the wrong way. she's basically trying to put the state on trial. >> in her 45-page legal motion, zellner attacks law enforcement, tries to poke holes in the prosecution's case, and raises new questions. >> she notes that teresa's cell phone pinged off a cell phone tower 13 miles away later that day, suggesting maybe she left there alive. there's also indications that other people, not from law enforcement, entered the property during the investigation, raising the prospect of other potential suspects. >> and she's won an early round. in november 2016, a judge granted her access to some of the evidence, so her experts could perform new forensic tests, including more advanced testing on avery's blood from the rav4. >> in june 2017, zellner filed a motion requesting a new trial

for avery. in a statement, she told "dateline," we will be able to demonstrate exactly how the evidence was planted in the early part of the investigation. avery, she insists, was framed for a crime he did not commit. but in october, a wisconsin circuit court denied that request. in her ruling, the judge stated that based on the evidence presented, avery had failed to establish grounds for a new trial. but the battle continues. in november 2017, zellner filed a notice to appeal the judge's ruling with the state's highest court. as for former prosecutor ken kratz and his new book, zellner dismisses kratz's claims about avery's treatment of women and interactions with teresa. saying, there was no proof mr. avery was becoming obsessed with miss halbach, and that rehashing a story about inadmissible evidence seems pointless.

zellner also notes, mr. kratz has no qualifications that would allow him to diagnose mr. avery as a psychopath. kratz, who prosecuted both steven avery and brendan dassey, says he's undaunted. >> are you afraid of kathleen zellner? >> no. i'm not involved in the case anymore. i shouldn't be afraid of anything. my involvement -- >> she could unravel your work if what she's saying has some weight to it. you don't think she has a chance? >> i don't. >> she's so confident. why are you so confident? >> because we spent 18 months putting this case together. it wasn't just thrown together. it wasn't a bunch of keystone cops. it was done very professionally, very well. >> kratz does have personal regrets. in his book, he admits to past prescription drug abuse and says he's ashamed that he sent sexual texts to a domestic violence victim two years after avery's trial.

a scandal which led to his resignation. while he still takes issue with "making a murderer," he says he's moving on with a new life and a new girlfriend. >> i'm hoping this book will change the narrative. >> meanwhile, avery continues to fight and brendan dassey could be released soon, after more than a decade behind bars. perhaps for a new trial. >> she is the reason why we're even talking about this. and she just deserves to be remembered. >> i love hugs. >> for her memories, kim says she goes back to this grainy video diary teresa made three years before she died. it was played at avery's sentencing. >> i love taking pictures. i love holding a camera in my hand. >> it gives me the chills every time i hear it. because she talked about everything she loved. >> is there anything you would say to teresa right now if she could hear you?

>> just that you're still in my heart and i'll never forget you. >> i just want to know, whenever i do die, i just want people i love to know that whenever i die, that i was happy. that's all for this edition of date line. i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. i'm craig melvin. >> and i'm natalie morales. >> and this is "dateline." i said, "what's wrong?" and she says, "debbie's dead." we all wanted to believe it was an accident, there's no possible way he could do this on purpose. >> reporter: a dark house.