good morning, coming up on your business how did the two founders of e-mail marketing mail chimp turn a side business into half a billion dollars of revenue without taking a side of outside funding. >> the family that owns a cookie cutter company got an invitation to the white house. >> and will the creator of a bra company get support from our judges and get the opportunity to present her company to thousands of influencers? when it comes to making choices for your businesses we've got your back. that's all coming up next on "your business."

hi there, everyone. i'm j.j. ramberg and welcome to "your business." the show dedicated to helping you grow your business. the marketing tool brought in more than half a billion dollars of revenue this year and is still completely owned by the two founders. we sat down with ceo ben chestnut to ask them why this tech company has chosen to do things differently than its silicone valley peers.

a lean and scrappy start. >> occasional interns here and there. it was tough. i remember being in a -- like a 900 square foot office. >> a quirky mascot. >> in the early days we had this fascination of monkeys. they make everyone laugh. >>nd attempt to solve a problem. >> our customers needed e-mail markets. >> ben chestnut and dan launched atlanta based e-mail marketing platform e chimp. today the company is doing more than half a billion dollars in revenue and it's likely you have an e-mail powered by them in your inbox right now. >> we send about a billion e-mails a day. >> as you walk around their offices it feels like a silicone valley tech company, cool art and modern architecture, a casual environment but where mail chimp differs from many fast growing companies is in the financing. >> you've taken how much money

in outside funding? >> i haven't taken any. >> that's right. it's 100% owned by the founders. in spied of the formidable competition they used only the company's profit to grow. >> was there ever a time you thought hey, if we want to go -- if we want to grow quickly we need an infusion of a lot of cash right now? >> i don't think we ever said if we want to grow quickly p we wanted deep strong roots so speed was never an issue. >> they believe their advantage was their deep knowledge of their small business customer. so ben and dan never went out to get adventure funding, a deliberate choice but one in the early days felt a little isolating like there was a club out there you didn't belong to. you have this chip on your shoulder and if you ever get mentioned there's a typo in your name or something, right, we kind of gave up. forget about validation and

getting coverage. let's just focus on our customers and i think that set us free. >> the company's growth started relatively slow. until the decision they made to offer a free version of the product. one of the first companies to capitalize on the free model. >> we were at maybe 100,000 customers at a time and within a year we were at a million and within another year we were at 3 million. >> and they kept on growing. today the company has 18 million customers and no surprise, the founders have gotten some tantalizing offers including one to buy the company for a billion dollars cash. >> and you said? >> i said no, thank you. >> ben says he and dan did meet to discuss the proposition. >> that lasted maybe 15 minutes. you know, when something like i have enough money, how about you? yeah, i -- i've got enough. but this would be more. but i don't need more. do you need more? no. >> something happens when employees join and it gets

bigger and bigger and you start to see this is more than a business. this is their sense of purpose. this is where they get their life fulfillment from. that makes it very hard to sell it. >> not to mention ben has hit his stride and has a confidence in his leadership that he didn't always have. there was one moment in particular where it was clear that as the company grew, the leaders would as well. when ben and dan wanted to do an all hands meeting without taking into account the company had gone from 20 to almost 200 people in one year things got complicated. >> we kept changing the location and the time and gossip started to spread that we were going to lay everyone off and we didn't know this was spreading and we walked right into the meeting with this sort of bra vado saying we've got a great future and people would raise their hands and say what's the plan? what's the future and we would say we don't know. we'll wing it this time again and you can just see fear in

everyone's eyes. i walked away feeling like a failure. it fete like i had built a machine, a company and suddenly i didn't fit anymore. and it felt like everything was broken because i just didn't fit. that was tough. >> a feeling he took home with him without even realize it. >> it was embarrassing and shameful and so i kind of kept it kwie kbrquiet and i didn't rt looked like animosity. and my wife came to me and said would you like me and the kids to move out for a while? and that really shook me and i got some leadership training and coaching. >> it's that willingness to change when needed that has helped both ben as a person and his company continue to grow. >> we have an internal model, listen hard, change fast. my cofounder is the listen hard part i'm the change fast. >> while e-mail is still a strong marketing tool, with the growth of social media in order

to survive mail chimp has to be about a lot more than just mail. >> we're going from act one to act two. we've done really well in the e-mail world. the brand is all about helding small businesses build their brand and grow. so i never thought of it just as an e-mail company. we started as an e-mail company, so it never really worried me. if e-mail did die or fall off a cliff or something we'd figure something else out. >> the white house recently hosted business owners from across the country for the made in america product show case. ben clark of ann clark cookie cutters had the chance to meet vice president mike pence and talk about the company's success. all of the coocookie cutters ar in the usa and he told us hoe he is's trying to win over those

from his competitors who manufacture overseas. >> ben clark doesn't mince words. >> i want to win. f i want to own the market. i want to be the player and that's what's driving me. >> his fight is personal, backing down is not an option. >> i have everything wrapped up in the business. this is not a hobby. i've moved my family here and said we can make it in the cookie cutter business. the owner of ann clark limited, the largest manufacture of cookie cutters in the u.s. runs his company knowing that full way that for his brand to succeed someone else has to falter. >> every new business that's successful, some other business has to fail. >> which is why ben has his sights set on the competition. he wants to steal their customers. >> we can say it 87 different ways but ultimately when we're winning, somebody's losing. for us to grow our market we're going after our chinese competitors. so we're trying to get their business. and that's become our strategy.

>> ben's mother ann who founded the company in 1989 says her son brought a new dynamic to the business. >> i'm not a real competitive person. he is a really competitive person. >> for them it was a fun neat, y but i was like no, i need to grow this. >> nobody knew cookie cutters could be so cut throat. >> you see it as a fun family oriented product and it is but there's a reason we are where we are and it's mainly because ben is competitive. >> the number of people buying cookie cutters doesn't change which explains why ben wants a bigger piece of the pie. >> we assume the number of cutters sold in america is constant. >> a crucial pitch that they make to retailers is that ann clark's steel cookie cutters are made here in the u.s.a.

>> a business is supposed to be carrying products that their customers are looking for. are your customers asking for chinese product? of course not. why is that what you're selling? you have an option here. >> efficiency is a top priority. production costs need to be on par with the competition. ben doesn't want pricing to turn off any customers. >> what they were doing is buying from whoever had it, whoever had the best price at the moment. we thought, you know, the hardest thing for us to do was to get our cost of manufacturing equal to what it cost to import a cookie cutter from china and we're there so now we can match their price. >> using newer technology ann clark now fulfills retail and wholesale orders kwkly and the company can offer more cookie cutter designs than ever before. >> we launch a new shape every week and now we have 2,100 different shapes we can sell. we have constantly looking for what's new, what's the market want and we can launch those

shapes. we can do it in a week. china is three or four months. >> when ben realized that ann clark wasn't reaching the entire crowd he wanted he turned online. >> we had stayed away from e commerce because we didn't think you could sell a cookie cutter. that was my biggest mistake. when i walk in in the morning there's a report that tells us how did amazon do, how did our website do. >> and he's created an influence network of cookie decorators and other ambassadors who help with name recognition. >> we've been working with a lot of people through social media. they're in turn helping us to develop our brand. >> ben keeps a constant eye on his competition but he knows his company has been watched too. >> we've seen them launch product which is a direct product line of what we've launched. when somebody does something on the web the other one will do something on the web.

>> this rivally has had some tense moments. a one point the two businesses took legal action. >> we were now competing directly with our chinese competitor, so what did they do? they stopped labeling their product made in china. so we had to sue them to have them label their product made in china. >> cookie cutters don't carry the label. for ben, that's frustrating. >> customers look at our cookie cutter and ours says made the the u.s. all over it. the chinese competitor doesn't have to say anything. >> so even though ann clark sales now make up about 40% of the market locking up deals is even a challenge. >> you can buy from china or a cookie cutter made in vermont. we thought it was a no brainer. it's not. >> and so he's continue to build his brand and tell his story and for now, ben and his team are

celebrating the little victories in hopes of toppling the competition. >> mostly it's one store at a time. you know, our sales people will come in and say hey, sally's kitchen store in wherever has just converted from china to ann clark limited. it's one cookie cutter at a time. i'm here in chicago at the internet retailer convention and you cannot talk about internet retail or any retail without talking about amazon and that's why i've invited jeff cohen to come chat with us. good to see you. >> thank you for having me. >> i mean, thank you for coming to talk to us. you are an expert on selling on amazon. it does so much good and causes so much trouble for companies, so if you are a brand, right, i manufacture something, i sell something, how do i get it so that my amazon sales do not cannibalize my own sales? a lot of brands struggle with the idea of do i want to promote

on -- my traffic to amazon? do i want to sell on amazon? the truth of the matter is your shoppers are shopping on both. and so you have to be on both. and unfortunately, if you don't put your product on amazon, there's a good chance somebody else will. so you want to control that channel, that cycle so that you can know what your shopper is going to see when they are on amazon and when they are on your site. you own the brand, you own the voice, you own the message. ? and how do you decide whether you send them to amazon or your site because for most people it's going to be easier to buy it from amazon, but you make less money. >> when you decide, what you want to think about is what the is the bigger sales opportunity and amazon has a lot of shoppers looking for products like yours and your competitors and if you can use a little bit of your traffic to send them to amazon, you can take advantage of

amazon's larger ecosystem. let me give you an example. there's a company called vermont teddy bear. so it's a great example of sending traffic to amazon and sending traffic to their own website. within their catalog they actually have amazon exclusive products that you can only buy on amazon and they also use their website. so on february 12th, two days before valentine's day they knew their shoppers would need the products overnight and they sent their traffic to amazon saying if you want to buy this product and you have amazon prime then you know, go to amazon and buy it. >> interesting. now, let's talk about once you're on amazon. it's really important to get reviews. i know i always look at the reviews. and sure, you can get all of your friends and family to go on there and review, but how do you get the thousands of reviews? >> yeah, so let's start with what you can and can't do on amazon. you should not ask your friends and family to come and give reviews for you. amazon has a policy that states that anyone with a financial

interest if your business should not leave a review for the product. of course they're going to leave you a good review. so a lot of people tend to go that way, but just be careful and know what you should and shouldn't do. >> so how do you get your customers to give them? >> one, you've got to build a great product. if you don't have add product. >> that goes without saying. but then how do you get them to do it? >> you've got to build a brand experience on amazon. this is the thing that a lot of brands miss. from the listing to your photos, to your product descriptions, to your enhanced brand content to your product packaging you need to tell your whole brand's story so that when you come to them after wards and you ask them for review, you send them an e-mail and ask them for review, they have a connection to you, your brand and your story and therefore, they're willing to do thi something for you. >> thank you so much. it's all such an important part

of retail these days. i appreciate your insight on how to sell some stuff. >> thank you. appreciate it. >> getting the word out about your product or service is hard. it's really hard as we all know. so for this elevator pitch series we wanted to do something different. we wanted to have our pitchers get to show their product or service to influencers. people who can help them spread the word. we're in the offices of she knows media. a lifestyle brand and they have a conference this summer called blog her. if our pitcher gets the heart emoji which you'll see in a second from our panelists then they will get to go to blog her and present their product or service in front of 3,000 people and that could totally change the trajectory of their business. let's see how our pitcher does. >> hi. >> so nice to see you. >> welcome! >> excited to hear you pitch. so tell me pepper does -- >> we make better fitting bras

for smaller chested women. >> how big is marketing to your company? >> it's huge. this is how people find out about it. we launched a press starter and this is going to help spread the word and get people excited and get people to, you know, try our brand out. >> and are you good, you think you're god at going to an influencer and pitching them an getting them to write about this? >> yes and this would be an opportunity that would be so good. it would be a huge opportunity to get in front of a bunch of them. >> congratulations first of all u. i know you are doing this as you are a full time student too. you're talking to two people. katy, she has a blog, an instagram, she's the one she wants writing about you because people care who you think. the second person is the president of she knows who runs blog her and has a lot of relationships with instagramers and bloggers. let's see how you do. >> thank you. >> hi.

i'm leah and i'm the cofounder of pepper. pancakes are delicious and everybody loves them, but if i compared your body to a pancake it wouldn't make you feel good. and that's what women with small bobs are appearing. brau companies designed for the average 36c cup and they shrink those designs down but because that initial design wasn't thought out for this body type you'll get fitting issues. a gap between your skin and the cup. we created pepper to close the gap for small chested women to close the gap to garments that finally fit them. uniquely folded cups that have less depth and get an authentic lift without the pushup padding m we launched this on kick starter with a retail price of $49 and we raised over $47,000 from 950 backers and since then we continue to grow month over month. our brand is all about helping

women feel confident in their own skin so we're solving a big problem for small boobs. >> i'm going to hug you through the bra. you did a >> that's fascinating. >> you did a good job. any questions before you guys go confer whether she gets to go or not? i've got some bras here. >> yeah. i wanted to say, so you might think that i might not be interested in this product. >> why? >> she's a comedienne. but i actually -- coming from the space where it's an underserved market and the retailers aren't quite hitting the market with sizing, i really appreciate this. i wanted to know, do you have plans to expand your sizes up? because small chested, plus-sized women are very underserv underserved. >> totally agree. small boobs doesn't mean skinny frame. we go all the way up to 38. we start at 32.

that's because we just launched like two months ago. but eventually, the idea is to expand band sizes but keep the cup sizes small. >> exactly. >> so we can be targeted and, you know, be able to stand for this audience having small boobs but not discriminate against band size. >> what about teens or kids, girls who are developing, in development? seems a little underserved as well. i've seen some invasion in that area. i have a 13-year-old. i'm sure she's stoked i'm talking about her boobs on tv. >> our customers have been women that have graduated from college and don't want to shop at the teens department anymore. we want to be that brand where we graduate from that phase and be modern and simple and give them, like, products for the modern women. however, we don't exclude them from our brand so they can also wear pepper. >> teens can find it. >> of course. >> all right. ready? i'm going to give you guys a

heart and a sad face. you confer and let us know if leah gets to go. i thought that pitch was so good. i'm not making any decisions. these ladies are. to you two ladies laughing in the corner, bring the sign over and the moment of truth, which is? does leah get to go to blogger and pitch in front of 3,000 influencers who could write about her and get people to buy this product? the answer is? >> it's probably deliberate that i'm the one saying yes. >> great job. >> thank you. >> you're going to be serving up pancakes to 3,000 women. >> i thank you, because we're not in the same situation. i might be a user. i'm not saying anything, but there might be gaps and you might be serving them. >> thank you so much. >> you did a great, great job. i'm sure you are going to do great up there. >> i'll be wearing it on the

blogger stage. i'll be your test model. when we come back, some effective strategies to reach specific demographics on social media and how you can get more comfortable in uncomfortable situations. the line between work and life hasn't just blurred. it's gone. that's why you need someone behind you. not just a card. an entire support system. whether visiting the airport lounge to catch up on what's really important. or even using those hard-earned points to squeeze in a little family time. no one has your back like american express. so no matter where you're going... we're right there with you. the powerful backing of american express. don't do business without it. don't live life without it.

we use social media to acquire our clients, and we really need help with how do we break through and reach them in their facebook streams where there are so many things that try to grab their attention? >> the best thing you can do is create really engaging content for your potential customers to find and engage with. we suggest using all parts of facebook that are available to you including pages, groups, events, and other things. we find that the people who are most successful at pulling in customers are those who really engage. it's like when you host a party, you're inviting people, introducing them to each other, responding to them kreeshgs year to date -- them, creating content they can interact with. >> brian heller is the owner of heller wellness and zach is the

founder and ceo of interactive advertising platform. so good to see both of you guys. both of you started your businesses and grew them. how old is your business? >> 23 years old. >> so you've got some staying power. yours is? >> about 6 1/2, 7 years. >> and fast growing. i'm happy to get to pick your brains. what's one thing you've learned in the last 6 1/2 years? >> you have to really get comfortable in challenging business circumstances. say you need to make sure you have a very, very strong comfort in confronting issues. say you have a performance issue on your team, or say you need to be comfortable taking vendors and negotiating contract prices down. those challenging situations, we find most entrepreneurs don't address those things head on and put them off. like, oh, how do i talk to this person about their performance issue? but it helps to have the conversations in advance. >> always falls down on to-do

list. how did you get comfortable with it? >> practice. pick out a friend, a spouse, a significant other, and practice that out and it's never nearly as bad as it is. >> you truly practice? >> oh, yeah. >> i have this employee, they're not showing up on time, you went and got a friend and said let's do this? >> and it was awesome because it's not nearly as bad when you practice. when you do it in reality, it's easier than what you thought it would be. >> 23 years of doing this. >> we're going to talk about patenting, getting your idea patented. i have four patents and i have a start-up in its research and development, and it was a device that was spawned from me being a chiropractor. but the two tips i wanted to mention very briefly is that when it comes to relating your idea to a patent attorney, just like any conversation, what i think occurred, there's what you think occurred and what actually

occurred. what's interesting is when you tell your patent attorney about something that has never existed in the world, that description has to be very precise, so an inventor needs to be a master editor. and finally, when you look at what is written there and give it back to your pal ent attorney, that is what is going to be submitted and literally what you came up with. >> basically, do not depend on their first interpretation of what you said. this is an ongoing process where you're going back and forth until they get exactly what's in your head. >> yes. and it's applicable to all relationships, in fact. >> it is true. i always said, so with our employees, i found many years ago my vision was not translating. right? i thought i was being very clear with what the vision is and people would come back and say we never heard this. i got to a point where, okay, repeat what i just said so i know. >> so impactful. >> so i know we are all on the same page here. yeah. same point. thanks, both of you.

congratulations both of you on the success of your companies. really impressive. good to see you. this week's "your biz selfie" comes from stephanie in sterling heights, michigan. she has created specially designed footwear for yoga and pilates along with other yoga apparel. pick up your cell phone, take a selfie of you and your business and send it to us. >> we love seeing your pictures and featuring them on the show. include your name, the name of your business, and the location. thank you so much for joining us today. we really love hearing from you. if you have any questions or comments about the show, just e-mail us at yourbusiness@msnbc.com. we got some great e-mails this week. you can click on our website. we put up everything from

today's show plus a whole lot more. and don't forget to connect with us on our digital and social media platforms as well. remember to check out our podcast, been there, built that. we've had some interesting conversations with founders and ceos. you can download it from apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. we look forward to seeing you next time. remember, we make your business our business. it's pretty amazing out there. the world is full of more possibilities than ever before. and american express has your back every step of the way- whether it's the comfort of knowing help is just a call away with global assist. or getting financing to fund your business.

no one has your back like american express. so where ever you go. we're right there with you. the powerful backing of american express. don't do business without it. don't live life without it. hey, everybody. this morning, the explosive tell-all from a former white house insider. yes, that white house insider. >> the president of the united states used not only the "n" word but other horrible things. >> robert stone robert mueller anything, defying a subpoena to testify. >> it is a weak precedent at best and the supreme court has the last word. >> and natalie allgna michael 1 aven