everybody. his coaches, his teachers, his devoted friends. outwardly happy, inwardly who really knew? >> that is all for this edition of "dateline." i'm craig melvin. thanks for watching. good morning. i'm dara brown in new york. it is 7:00 in the east and 4:00 out west. here is what is happening. the clearance crisis, the first interview with john brennan since losing his security clearance. >> if they were normal times i would have expected it but these are not normal times. these are very frankly quite frightening times. >> what he plans to do about it and who may be the next to lose their clearance. and the best defense. new words of support by the president to his former campaign chairman. >> i think it is very sad what they've done to paul manafort.

>> but when the president's comments help sway the jury as they head into another day of deliberations. and time for new blood? the name emerging as a potential democratic speaker of the house. let's get right to new reaction from former cia director john brennan in his very first tv appearance since trump revoked his security experience telling rachel mad ow why he thinks the president is prompting him and there may be sec urt clearance of others. here is part of his interview. >> the other people on the so-called enemies list, i think that this is just another example of mr. trump trying to frighten and intimidate others. but i can tell you, having worked in the national security and intelligence community for many, many years, these are not the type of people that will be bullied or intimidated by

someone of the likes plaintiff trump. mr. trump time after time has really just disappointed millions of americans. which i'm trying to give voice to. and so i know a lot of people think that a former intelligence official shouldn't be doing this. i don't consider what i'm doing political. i've never registered as a republican or a democrat. in my entire life. but i feel such a commitment to this country's security and its reputation. i think this is a thing that lawyers and courts and others are going to be looking at in terms of whether or not mr. trump is doing any of this in order to obstruct justice, or to try to silence critics. whatever. but the fact that he's using a security clearance of a former cia director as a pawn in his public relations strategy, i think is just so reflective of somebody who quite frankly -- i don't want to use this term -- but he's drunk on power and abusing the powers of the office. i think right now this country is in a crisis.

in terms of wha and is liable t. and so are the have given him a pass, are they going to waitappy actually find their backbones and spines to speak up against somebody who clearly, clearly is not carrying out his responsibilities with any sense of purpose and common sense from the standpoint of national security. i think he's out of control. he has the steering wheel of the american vehicle in his hands and he's veering wildly right now. he's trying to preserve and protect himself. and so what more demonstration do you want? when things get really bad, i'm glad that -- if his revoking my security clearance is going to wake some people up -- >> let's bring in julie manhattan and john van allen from nbc news digital. good morning to you both. jonathan, picking up from where

director brennan left off, about these clearance revocations and waking people up. we know the dozens of former and current members of the intelligence community are voicing outrage but what about president trump's current officials like cia director happsell and bruce ohr is being targeted by the president. >> good morning, dara. you bring up an interesting point with dan coats. andrea mitchell and -- reported earlier this week that coats was not aware this would happen when it happened. this is a problem in terms of -- i would take it out of the national security realm for a just a second. there is a reasonable discussion about whether all of the people who have national security clearance after they leave office should continue to have that clearance and what it is used for and how it is used. there is a reasonable process discussion about that. what is -- what critics say is

not responsible is for the president of the united states to target people for political purposes to target people he sees as adversaries and the people that brennan said are on the enemies list, this is attempting to undermine people in the russia investigation or publicly critical of him or who are simply hobby horses for his base. >> and julia, i want to add on to that because president trump told yesterday that pulling security clearances might give brennan a bigger voice and what is the thinking in the white house as the president ties these security reffo case -- re vocations to russia and as -- as opposed to national security matters. is everybody on board with this? >> right. we're seeing former intelligence officials ban together and in opposing this move. we saw about 60 intelligence officials -- former intelligence officials came together to sign a letter basically pushing back on the move from the president. but i think from the white

house's point of view, this is a public relations strategy to really undermine critics of the russia investigation. we saw yesterday that the president was tweeting about g.o.j. official bruce ohr and his ties to the steel bossier and his past comments on that issue and it seems like he's the next official that will most likely be targeted in all of this. so i think it is a public relations strategy from their standpoint but critics will say that former officials keeping their security clearances is a good thing because it is -- it allows them to be able to communicate with government officials who are currently serving if they need any advice on a particular matter. so people would say it is a national security issue. >> and jonathan, talking more about the washington post report on how white house officials are planning to use letters like the one they wrote to revoke the security clearance as part of a roll out to distract from negative stories. so how calculated are these efforts? >> i think everybody got a little bit of a window in that

earlier this week when the statement on john brennan was dated late july and so despite that having -- that decision having been made earlier, they held on to that and rolled it out as omarosa getting a lot of attention for the book that she's written about her time in the white house and her time with president trump. so like i said, i think we have a window into that. obviously it sounds like we'll see more of these security clearances pulled. but this story line is not a good one for the president either. before you saw all of those national security officials come out, you saw william mcraven the man who masterminded the bin laden raid, a four-star admiral come out in "the washington post" in defense of john brennan and said to the president that -- that you have embarrassed in front of our children and humiliated us on the world stage.

he is not the guy you want to pick a fight with. him having been a navy s.e.a.l. for decades and rising to that four-star level and said despite having four stars on his -- he said the real badge of honor is to have your security clearance revoked and asked the president to revoke his so he could stand with brennan. >> and they will introduce legislation to revoke the security clearances and we juxtapose his plans to republican senator richard burr who criticized brennan and said this is within president trump's authority. so julia, is director beenan not a sympathetic figure and that is why there is mostly silence from the republican leadership on this? >> i think the president's strategy in all of this is currying favor towards a lot of republicans, especially in the house where we're seeing a lot of house republicans have pushed back on the intelligence

community. i guess former intelligence officials behavior in the russia probe. and they've also pushed back against the russia probe itself. so i think this is a way of the white house kind of angling themselves toward republicans and all of this. but definitely a split between warner and burr who have been quite united in their work in the congressional russia probe. so that is quite interesting looking forward. >> and jonathan, how do you see it? >> i think that the republicans on capitol hill generally speaking have stayed with preside -- president trump because their voters are his voters and they worry about distancing themself and with brennan there is real animosity toward him among members on the republican side in particular and senator burr.

so he has created -- some adversaries and it not enemies on the hill. and they already hated suze ran and fox news loved to put her picture up throughout the obama administration and hold her up as -- as somebody that they thought wasn't credible. so that is why she's on the list. it is not like susan rice is out there on the television talking about president trump on any regular basis. >> it is quite a list. so we'll see what happens. and julia, before i let you go, we saw the president picking a fight with local officials over the military parade he had to cancel. what is there to gain from this considering the bad optics of how extremely expensive the parade would be. >> it is president trump blaming local officials for this price tag and i think he's disappointed that he's not able to do this. this was in his view a way to show off the u.s. military which he has longed to do -- long wanted to do. but an interesting statement

from the american legion and criticized the cost of the parade, it is good intentions, why can't he donate the money to causes that will help the military. so, yeah, an interesting back and forth there between him and d.c. mayor bowser on this. but it looks like the president will go to paris to watch the anniversary of world war i -- the victory in world war i. >> and jonathan, your reaction including the president saying he's going to paris on the veteran's day parade. >> i think that holding a -- a military parade right after the midterm election could be terribly poor optics for him if he ends up losing the house or a rebuke from the voters. now it looks like he'll be leaving the country and going to paris if that happens. so i'm not sure that there is a real win for him in this.

the pentagon didn't want it to happen. the city of washington didn't want it to happen. and the mayor here is not going to lose a single vote for ripping the president publicly. >> and it did come with a huge price tag. stick around. we'll talk about the challenges pelosi faces up next. and what does this mean? the manafort jury still hasn't made a decision. is that a good sign for him? plus the president weighs in on a pardon. >> will you pardon paul manafort? >> i haven't talked about that. i don't talk about that. mail and packages. mail and it's also a story about people. people who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams they're handing us more than mail they're handing us their business and while we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget... that your business is our business the united states postal service. priority: you ♪

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. i think the whole manafort trial is very sad. when you look at what is going on there -- i think it is a very sad day for our country. he worked for me for a very short period of time, but you know what, he happens to be a very good person.

and i think it is very sad what they've done to paul manafort. >> president trump commenting on the trial of his former campaign chairman paul manafort as the jury wraps up the second day without a verdict. they'll head back to deliberations on monday on the 18 charges of bank and tax fraud and his attorney sees another day of deliberation as a good sign. >> would the long deliberation work in your fwafr. >> i think it was. >> what was your reaction today. >> i'm glad he's supporting mr. manafort. >> joining me now is danny saval os and the jury heads to the third day of deliberation and how do you read that for the case. >> there are people saying the jury should have come back quickly because this is a case of guilt, but this is a very complicated case. the number of tax cases that are filed every year in comparison to other -- the rest of federal criminal cases is very small. and then within that, the f-bar

cases are a tiny fraction of federal cases filed. this is complicated, rarely trod upon territory and the jury is likely struggling with it the way anybody would struggle with these complex economic crimes that involve international bank accounts and reams of pain tore review and keep straight as exhibits. >> and danny, usa today say some of the things that could sway the jury is the credibility of rick gates, the decision not to present its own case and robert mueller's case. what else do you think could sway this jury? >> first, it is frequently the case that the defense rested without presenting any evidence or witnesses because the burden and the jury will be told this and they have been told this, the burden always rests on the prosecution and if the defense has the opportunity to cut off the evidence and prevent any new evidence from coming in, given that the jury will be trained on

the issue of the burden resting with the prosecution, then sometimes the only strategy and the best strategy is to close off evidence while you can and then argue that evidence or the lack thereoff to the jury. >> and those are two things they did, they call nod witnesses and paul manafort didn't take the stand. but the president's comments signal the likelihood of a pardon if he is convicted. >> first the president's comments bring us back to when nixon commented on the guilt of charles manson while that trial was ongoing and now you have the reverse. the president commenting on the innocence or the not guiltiness of a defendant who is currently facing trial. the problem for the prosecution is that if it results in an acquittal, there are no comebacks or chance to dispute that on appeal. so if nothing else, the president's comments can only help paul manafort unless the judge or the prosecutors make

the point that this is enough for a mistrial, which it probably is not. >> and prosecutors are asking for up to six months in prison for george papadopoulos. what message does this send to others thinking of cooperating with robert mueller? >> the message is this -- if you come in to speak with federal investigators, and you tell any kind of fib or any stretch of the truth or embellish, you can be charged with section 1001, false statements to investigators. just like martha stewart, and just like papadopoulos, just like general flynn, all of these folks came in and thought they could outwit prosecutors who already know all of the facts. so this signals that the government is taking very seriously section 1001 prosecution and sending a message, if you are going to come in to talk to us, then be warned. you better tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. >> one trump insider maintaining

his allegiance is roger stone. let's watch. >> i think if they bring a case against me, it will be a fabricated case and there is no circumstances whatsoever in which i will testify against the president. i have no information that is negative toward the president and i'm not going to make any up in order to get out of a tight if some false allegation is brought -- >> so how will the outcome of paul manafort affect the position of those like stone? do you see them changing if he is convicted. >> roger stone is like many federal potential defendants or targets in that he's probably a criminal history category one and he has no prior record, he's a white-collar type defendant and if he's charged. so he has a tremendous incentive, most of the time these are the kind of defendants or targets who cooperate with the government. on the other happened, roger stone, the closest analog is paul manafort. these guys are old school.

they don't snitch. for that reason alone, he might never cooperate with the prosecution. >> danny, thank you so much for joining us on this saturday morning. great to have you. and pelosi problems. a potential blue wave in november is bringing talk of a new name for house speaker. and omarosa gave plenty of talking points for bill maher. >> she said boy, he's a racist and suffers from dementia and he said she's crazed and crying and a low life and a dog and putin said i can't believe i have to collude with these people. owners always seem so happy? because they've chosen the industry leader. subaru forester holds its value better than any other vehicle in its class according to alg. better than cr-v. better than rav4. better than rogue. an adventure that starts with a subaru forester will always leave you smiling. get 0% percent apr financing

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he was a pioneering diplomat giant and served ten years as the united nations secretary general in 1997. born in ghana, the first black african to hold the position and won the nobel peace prize in 2001 and showed leadership in his opposition to the u.s. invasion of iraq.

he died today. a statement from his foundation said he died peacefully with his family by his side. cofi was 86 years old. and a plan to oust nancy pelosi. congressman james clyborn telling "the new york times" he's run for speaker if she falls short of votes in the caucus. let's bring in julia. the takeaway from the efforters and wouldn't a victory by democrats bolter an argument for keeping pelosi. >> what we've seen so far is a lot of progressive candidates who have been critical of pelosi, haven't done so well on the primaries. we've seen that a lot of candidates endorsed by cortez and bernie sanders haven't moved on to the general election so it seems like from the outset she'll be okay. but the comments by jim clyburn are interesting because there could be -- there has to be a --

the congressional black caucus will play a big role in this because in the midterms there could be additional african-american members elected which could bolster his chances. i think a lot of democrats see clyburn as someone who could represent the party in terms of diversity and being an elder statesman. something that pelosi has done, the first female speaker. but if democrats are look for change, they would look at someone like clyburn or steny hoyer. >> and jonathan, your takeaway from the poll showing democrats growing advantage when you factor in the independents and so how significant is this to you. >> i will see this move back and forth before election day but the democrats seem to have a good opportunity to either take advantage of a good situation or to completely blow it. >> well we will see if this blue wave comes or not. julia much and jonathan allen, thank you for being here on this saturday morning with us. we have so much to talk about. it is been great to have you.

>> thanks. >> thank you. well that will do it for me. i'm dara brown. thank you for watching. stay with us. up next it is "your business" with j.j. ramberg. enjoy your saturday. stop fearing your alarm clock... with new*! zzzquil pure zzzs. a drug-free blend of botanicals with melatonin ...that supports your natural sleep cycle... ...so you can seize the morning. new! zzzquil pure zzzs.

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good morning. coming up on "your business," this michigan ferry service had more customers than they could handle and sinking their business. the changes they make to keep passengers and local officials happy to ensure calmer waters to the future. and the tell-tale signs that an employee is embezzling from your company. when it comes to making choices for your business, we have your back. that is coming up next on "your business." >> sponsored by american express. don't do business without it.