really bad? i'm glad that if his revoking my security clearance is going to wake some people up. >> good morning and welcome to a.m. joy. i'm al sharpton in for joy reed. in his first on camera interview, revoked his security clearance. former cia director john brennen fired back on the rachel maddow show. >> i know there's a question. there's a thing lawyers and courts and others are going to be looking at in terms of whether or not mr. trump is going to be doing in in order to obstruct justice or to try to silence critics. whatever, but the fact he's using a security clearance of a former cia director as a pawn in his public relations strategy is just so reflective of somebody who quite frankly don't want to

use this term. >> former cia tell analyst at msnbc and republican strategist m matt. let me go to you first and ask you, drunk on power. those are strong words. brennen, who was always low key, more kind of thoughtful guy than a guy that would give statements. drunk on power, would it have brought him to the place where maybe he does obstruct justice. maybe he is trying to silence this. is it all the above or is he

doing something that he had the power to use at the time the president doesn't. >> in theory under article two of the constitution, the president is classifier in chief. he decides what is secret, top secret and everything else, but there is an established procedure by way of executive order for deciding whether or not to pull or grant security clearances. president can by pass that in the case of national security issues. i think that's why you see him making his point in his statement this is is a national security type issue, but ultimately he might just say, look, under article two, i have the inherent power of the president to do this procedure aside. i request do it any way i want. i can tweet it. make anannouncement. do it however i like. >> that is what is in the

constitution. that's how the powers are there. we have not seen a president really use this in such an over direct way. is this an abuse of power? i think it is an abuse of power. i signed a letter along with 75 of my former cia colleagues yesterday stating that we believe the president is implying political litmus test to who should have a security clearance. i don't think it should be applied this way. i do think he should follow process and procedures. it should be based on national security decision. not on whether or not someone agrees or disagrees with the president. >> now, in saying that, i think, matt, that you as a republican, there has been republican presidents before. they've been attacked before. they've been questioned on policy before. have we ever seen a president do what is being done now in terms of security clearances?

and if not, why not and how does the republican party stand behind this president doing t s this. >> i've held security clearance. nato has held security clearance. to answer you question, no, we've never seen a president choose to revoke security clearance for one individual. never been done before. honestly, most presidents would not get in the weeds on that. they would basically sort of leave that to the intelligence professionals and the intelligence community that ultimately make the decision about when security clearances can be granted or not. here's my problem with what president trump has done here. it does appear there's no standard. there's no objective standard as to why he's making this decision. that could be dangerous going forward.

that's not the way the intelligence community should operate by any stretch. that said, brennen has certainly gone beyond where most intelligence professionals have gone in some of the language he's used. it doesn't mean he should have security clearance revoked. he's clearly gone out of being a traditional intelligence professional and leader and into almost a sort of partisan. >> is he limited? there's nothing that says that he cannot express his opinion. i mean, he may be doing something that intelligence didn't do before. it doesn't mean he's not bound to do it. he's not violating anything. >> as it relates to security clearance, what matters is are you protecting classified information at all times. that's the standard that's required. you know, security clearance is not a birthright and just because you have one doesn't mean you can always have one. so that will be -- that to me would be a really good standard.

if president trump was looking at it and saying listen, we now have reason to believe in this case he violated the protection of classified information. that would be a good standard. i think that's the point. the president has not cited that i'm removing his clearance because he is compromised us with this inside security information. he has basically given his view on the president, which last time i checked is not necessarily a security risk to have a political opinion on assessment of a sitting president. and question to you is this president on one hand is calling an investigation on russian collusion to undermine the american voter a witch hunt, but he wants to in some ways protect

us from political views by removing things that have nothing to do with our security. seems to me a little contradictory. >> you're 100% right. look. i currently hold a top secret clearance and currently reserve as the united states navy. i'm intelligence officer and msnbc analyst. come on and express my opinion. i've been lucky to do so. there's a fine line. let me explain to your point why what the president did is chilling. not chilling for someone like brennen and retired. impact to him is going to minimal. someone who joined post 9/11 and taught very specifically from the lessons of 9/11 that intelligence professionals are trained, are encouraged to go out there. make a mistake. don't be afraid to say something that goes against the grain. we want people because of 9/11. we want people intelligence professionals to say things that maybe they're commanders don't agree with. maybe they're superiors don't go with. that's the point.

punishing someone doesn't matter about clearance. singling out and punishing people, you are essentially going backwards from everything we've done post 9/11 in terms of making this country safer by encouraging thoughtful debate, encouraging thoughtful analyst and encouraging people in the minority see to speak up. you don't want to silence voices. that's what the president has just done. >> also impacts people's lives. if you are going to his point about brennen's retiring, what about young people that want to go forward and get the security clearance and then they want to pursue a career like it's absolutely true. in a military environment in an intelligence these are people in

who achieve enough to get those jobs are confirmed about resume and mark like national intelligence industry is going to be really disense. by course. these people whether security clearances have revoked at least according to supreme court case involved in department of the navy. they probably have no recourse. scary to me because that affect of saying i can't afford the environment intelligence. my career. i can't afford to speak my mind even in private because i could have this against me and that is

where we are going towards an almost totaltarian type of state. swamped in slowly there. when people are afraid for political reasons to exercise their freedom of speech now that is the threat to me. >> i think that is invalid. >> from an intelligence perspective, cia. we're taught from a very early on agency we're supposed to have. making decisions about. i was next to democratic republicans independents, liberals conservatives. socialist and libertarians, but i never really knew it. we didn't discuss in our work environment what our personal political views are. we knew we had the right and ability to choose. what it is we wanted to pursue outside of work.

so i think the danger is there's so many things intelligence professional has to be careful. especially when they have a security clearance. adding undue burden upon these people. this is not applied intelligence professional outside of work. they should be able to publicly when they let the agency as i have talk about their own opinions. and quite often informed opinions. i think that adding to the public debate is what is so important. >> now, it also people need to understand one of the reasons that it is important that some people that have had experience and all the way to mr. brennen, those that are there now dealing with issues like turkey or the middle east or whatever the issue may be, needs to be able to glean from them the counsel.

they experience the advice. their context and you're going in parts of the world that if you're in a new administration, you may not know people that they would know. their security clearance taken away, it limits you being able to glean from those that could give you actual things that can help secure the american public and have that snatch back because somebody said something you don't like and you thin skinned politically to me could affect the security of american citizens. >> you're 100% right. look, to the lowest level, you know, intelligence analyst, the 19 or 20-year-old kid, what you want to encourage them is to speak their mind. when they're looking at intelligence and analyzing it and making a product, you don't want to limit that. you don't want to worry if they get the wrong assessment, they

say the wrong thing. all the message we should be conveys to young kids that are at the frontline analyzing intelligence. this is not the message. on one level about brennen and other level average american the part they don't see is the kids and professionals today working on this stuff and chilling message it says to them if you get your assessment wrong, if your assessment is something viewed as political, viewed as not going with the contrary viewpoint, you might lose your clearance. that's not the message at all we want to send to people. we edon't want to send to people their assessment is going to have impact on their career: that's just a wrong message. at the end of the day, exactly what you said. that impact was security. national security of this country. something we should all be incredibly disturbed about. >> matt, you're the republican here. i don't want everybody saying you're right referendum. where am i wrong here.

is this something you and other republicans have to say even i can ride with the president on this. >> well, let's make one distinction. the list that the president and white house have put out of people whose clearances are being considered for revocation, all includes one current government employee which is bruce who works the justice department. a lot of questions about his time there. everyone else is a former government employee. so yes, if it got to a point where an individual, you know, soldier, intelligence intelligence analyst in one of the intelligence agencies was on that list, that would be totally unsusceptible from my standpoint. i don't think that's where we are. >> we need to be able to -- we need to be able to counsel with former people. we need to glean from their context the information just because their former doesn't mean they could not be useful. we are talking about the security of american citizens. >>. >> can i just say something,

respectfully, matt, i know what you're saying these are former people. doesn't necessarily impact the day-to-day of the intelligence community. you're mistaken if you don't think those 19 and 20-year-old kids don't read the paper. they're going to look at this and have an impact on how hay want to do their assessments. that's a chilling message. it's a message from the commander in chief that basically says as an intelligence professional, if i don't like your counsel for political reasons, i'm going to ruin your career. that is the wrong message that we want to send to people. it's shocking. >> matt, quickly, i'm out of time. >> yes, sure, it's not about the counsel. it's about the fact that brennen has spent the last year really being totally over the top in the things he said about the president. he does it with credibility. he was a former c eer cia direc. i'm not comfortable with how it was done. there nodes to eeds to be a sta. that's what this is about. some 22-year-old who is writing a report going to go through four layers before it goes

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mr. mueller has a lot of

conflicts also. directly yourself. so you know that. mr. mueller is highly conflicted. in fact, comey is like his best friend. i could go into conflict after conflict, but sadly, mr. mueller is conflicted, but let him write his report. we did nothing. there's no collusion, but if you're doing an honest report, he'd write it on the other side. >> donald trump keeps trying to discredit robert mueller. as the russia investigation targets trum s trump's inner ci. special counsel team recommending up to six months in jail for former trump campaign aide george papadopoulos who pled guilty to lying to the fbi. back with me, joining me now is mrs. max well. director of progressive programming for xm and adviser

to steve bannon and former trump campaign adviser. sam, let me go to you first. former boss nervous. i mean he sees animated and sees i've known him. he seems like, for guys that is not going to comment on something, he in one sound bite there said that. he's conflicted three different. all don't really want to say anything. >> he certainly has been able to change the discourse i would sa. how it was first going and rudy giuliani who was able to do the tv appearances. look at the polling numbers. murm's approval was way above 50. investigation fairly.

i think it actually helped the president. >> let me just check. you were saying you think rudy giuliani's tv appearances have helped you all. >> yes, they've helped us. reverend, i understand. i said this from the very beginning when he was being attacked. i said, you watch. you keep looping in what he is saying. he's finally somebody out there who can defend this president who doesn't have legal liability, right. legal exposure. as to worry about what they say. representing as a lawyer who can be aggressive. >> he's representing his client. >> being aggressive. that's something he needed. something the president needed. therefore changed trajectory looking at the polling. with that said, this investigation is a threat to the presidency. the minute it startstarted, the minute the special counsel was appointed. aside from whether or not we agree. let me ask you in terms of what

the president is saying in the conference. and fact that we're looking at papadopoulos being -- looking at jail. i mean the government is talking about he needs to go to jail for six month >> he'll be the second person that's going to be put in jail as a result of this investigation because as you know, there's already a lawyer, alexander van der zwaan already in prison. >> and former campaign manager. >> facing potential jail, we don't know. monday or tuesday. so i think the investigation and a president whose back is against the wall. you hear him say no collusion, no collusion, no collusion. that's his go to line. the facts are belying that narrative for him. we have a long list of evidence of potential collusion. not necessarily something that rises to the level of conspiracy charges. danny articulates every day. i think that we as americans need to be patient and also very

individual lent vigilant he doesn't obstruct the investigation. mueller gets down to the conclusion. we know what happened and prevent it from happening again. >> you were talking about a legal case. we're not talking about politic sk s and votes now. we're talking about is there evidence there. evidence of paul short. we are looking at a man being recommended to go to jail for six months. another man facing heavy time if he's convicted with the campaign chair. from a legal, forget the political, forget the polling. forgot giving what spin. the fact that you got such a widespread investigation and so many people that are now being prosecuted and some are cooperating, this is a real

problem for the president. >> it is. in this case when a defendant agrees to cooperate, there's a tremendous incentive and bear in mind, i'm a defense attorney. i'm a little bias instead this area, but cooperating witnesses have a tremendous incitizentien give prosecutors as story that will be of value to them so they can get that sought after, what's called a 5k one motion for substantial assistance. that is key to their sentencing. it can make the difference between decades behind bars in federal prison. with that in mind, there's an incentive to give the prosecutors a good story that that alone is reason for donald trump to be concerned. reason number two for donald trump to be concerned is exactly what we're seeing with george papadopoulos. what we saw with general flynn. section 1001. underlying crime. sit down with federal

investigators in informal setting and try to gaslight them or try to embellish a story. that creates a crime where none existed before. >> a thought of interview my colleague. mr. bannon. and i said i want to ask you something about it. >> when you said the trump tower meeting with the russians was treasonous and you said you met paul manafort. what about it made it treasonous in your view. >> i don't think i ever have just people for the country. part of treasonous behavior by your standard. you have to calm the question. if somebody is actually out there trying to get information.

it would definitely concern me. >> if donald trump had knowledge of and agreed or just even had knowledge that people were meeting with russians on his behalf to get dirt on hillary clinton or in any way help with the campaign. the jury and agree. i disagrees with him. i would have been somebody who said i would have taken this meeting. the e-mail. >> you would have met with the russians. >> yes. >> and you do not consider that crime or treasonous as steve bannon. >> for what they were offering, absolutely not. if we can go into specifics. the rob goldstein e-mail says i mispronounce his name. he had met with special

prosecutor of the russians. something like attorney general, u.s. attorney. and they had a sealed indictment against hillary clinton. that tied into what we knew in terms of bill clinton getting a half a million dollar speech. and two and a half million dollars going to the clinton foundation. >> you're getting it from enemies of the country. if they indicted hillary clinton in russia, what difference does it make to america? now all of a sudden we're going to bleed putin's criminal justice system? are you serious. >> when they were talking about foreign business ties with the president throughout this campaign, they were talking about the fact he sold apartments to russians. that was commonly talked about. talked about transaction in florida. >> we were talking about judging that from american law. >> but reverend, we were not depending on putin's judges to tell us that. >> that's right. >> this one, two pay for play. went into corruption. >> pay for play by american standards. you're telling me about an

e-mail on russian standards. i'm sitting right here. you said, the e-mail said they were getting ready. russia, not -- that they had a sealed indictment, yes. >> is there another part of the e-mail train you're referring to that hadn't been released publicly. i didn't see anything in the e-mail chain referencing. >> it said sealed documents. >> it said dirt on hillary clinton as part of the russian government effort. >> the russian government. it sure did say that. you didn't have to be a genius to know that putin wanted trump to win. >> but you don't take the meeting. >> you don't have to be genius to know angela merkel when her government sent supportive comments about hillary clinton, she wanted hillary clinton to win. >> germany is not an enemy of the united states. if somebody told you an avowed enemy of the united states had an indictment against the

candidate for president and dhe these are you avowed enemies, why would you consider that anything, but a possible problem for the american people. >> if there are avowed enemies, here's what i want to know. why did bill clinton take a $500,000 speaking fee. >> you have to ask bill clinton. >> we were talking about it. that was in the context of election. >> we're not talking about it. we're discussing what you said makes a credible reason i'm saying that bear your enemy. i guess if you believe that you have a birth certificate from kenya, you would believe in a russian indictment. >> i wasn't the one that tried to reset russian relations like she did. >> tell me one time that they said -- >> there was a time when the clintons like the russianed very

much. they made a lot of money off them. >> tell me one time you can cite, not when they were going to speak, but when they were going to go and hear and give them information that would impact an american election? one time. whether they got two dollars or two billion. no one has accused the clintons of soliciting or receiving information that would impact an american election. if somebody wanted to go and lecture. if you asked me to come to your republican meeting in the basement in brooklyn to speak, that's me talking. that's not me meeting you in the basement to get information against a leader. tell me when the clinton's was accused with any of your information of sloliciting or receiving information from russia against their oe poteppo >> they just wanted tapes to leak. they wanted access hollywood tape. >> when they had a meeting or when accused of having a meeting. >> i never said they were accused.

>> and that's the difference between you talking about whether he got speaking fees or whether or not they conspired to collude in the election. >> let's go into that meeting. that meeting was a bait and switch. that's what gold stone has said. that meeting -- >> sanctions. which is sanctions. >> according to the allegations. >> where do we stand on in. >> i don't know. that's not something i had access to. >> i have to go, but according to allegations it wasn't to get dirt on hillary clinton. >> it was to get dirt. it was a baiting switch. >> the question is whether that is as your former mentor said, whether that was treasonous. we'll stay with us. thank you, sam. we woke up the weekend. >> thank you. see, i could be nice and combative at the same time. omarosa as the white house running scared. that's next.

but sure not to miss tomorrow's politic nation when i sit down with onmarosa manigaul newman. next up. the latest reveal from omarosa's

secret tapes.

i am not going anywhere. i'm not going be bullied. i'm not intimidated. i'm going to go toe to toe with him. everything he throws at me, believe me my tapes are much better than theirs. >> you're going to release more tapes. >> i'll do what i have to do to protect myself. >> how are you going to determine whether you need to. >> we'll see. he's threatening to get me arrested.

trying to intimidate my publisher. trying to intimidate me. donald trump has met his match. >> omarosa may have as many as 200 secret recordings, according to the "new york times." she released the latest tape to msnbc this week. it's a conversation between omarosa and laura trump. donald trump's daughter-in-law in a senior adviser to his re-election campaign. that says that omarosa says happened three days after she was fired from the white house. these are excerpts of a longer conversation between the two. nbc has listened to the tape in full. and the clips are in the proper context. >> listen, obviously with like the "new york times" article and stuff, it's. >> what's the "new york times" article? >> the one that it was out

today. it seemed a little like there's to pull out. clearly if you come on board the campaign, like, we can't have it. we have to -- >> oh, god no. >> got to remain positive. the only thing we have to consider is talking salary as far as the campaign is conserved that as you know, everything is public. and all the money that we raise and the paying salaries is directly from donors. small dollar donors for the most part. you were making 179 at the white house. and i think we can work something out where we keep you right along those lines specifically adding up the numbers, but we were talking about 15 k a month. let me see what that adds up to. . yes, 180,000. does that sound like a fair deal

for you. >> in terms of your position specifically, i really feel like your position would require, you know, you to be able to be flexible in terms of where you are. sometimes come to new york for occasional meetings, but i would love if you could, you know, occasionally go do speaking engagements. i think you would be awesome doing that. so it doesn't really matter where you are. if you're comfortable staying in d.c., then you know, we're more than happy to have you -- >> joining me now, the winner of season 4 of the apprentice, randal pinkett and back with me mrs. maxwell. >> you won season four, you know donald trump as i do. . this seems to me to be the --

i'm talking about omarosa having all these tapes. seems to be a real case of someone saying i better protect myself because i don't know when and how this will end, but when it does, i want to be able to protect myself because before we get down to whether or not she has a smoking gun for mueller or any of that, you have to deal with why would somebody be doing all of this and the only logical reason is i know the folks that i'm hanging with. i better protect myself. >> i worked for the trump administration for a year. and the culture that i saw on the trump administration is reflective of the culture we see coming out of the white house. a culture where lies were acceptable, a culture. >> in is in his private business. >> private business. >> lies were acceptable. >> coming from donald, lies were acceptable. people would stab you in the back and constantly had to look

out for yourself. think about omarosa's behavior. think about the fact fbi director comey took copious noe notes. why did he do that, worried donald might lie. michael cohen audio taped conversations. >> everybody around you is taking notes and taping. >> you might have a character problem. >> omarosa is simply the next in line. there have got to be others besides her who knowing the culture of the white house, know the way to protect themselves is to get evidence to protect yourself. >> you said andive seen y i've say this on other shows, let's not forget omarosa whatever our opinions are, did work in the white house under bill clinton and came with more experience than some of the people that he made senior staffers. >> there's this misconception that she had no business being in the white house, but she worked in the clinton white

house when bill clinton was the president. the idea she's completely unqualified, you know, in terms of her actual work qualifications, that is sort of a red herring. character wise, does she belong in the white house. that's i think a credible conversation in terms of her background, but i would also say this, every thing she knew, she was working with people who tell lies. in order to protect yourself from liars, you document everything that's happening, knowing that they are going to lie about it in the future. that is what's happening. she's making claims and calling her a liar and every single time they do it, she puts out a tape as receipts to say, no, you're the liar. she's playing a much longer game. their essentially stuck in this position. almost ironically like the clinton campaign was that i work on at the end of the election cycle. the last 30 days, there were 2,000 podesta e-mails that came every single morning. didn't know it was going to come out. again, no smoking gun was in the

e-mails other than a really good row soto recipe. that's the position they're in now. playing catchup and reacting to each revelation. she has the tape and is playing a much longer game. >> you're saying the environment on the apprentice, around the apprentice, and even in the trump obama administration, this kind of culture of lie ass and distrust and clandestine back and forward is how he operates. >> without a doubt. think about the kind of people donald surrounds him with. michael flynns of the world. paul manaforts of the world. that's a political context. i've seen that in the business context. think back to discussions about trump university. people i was working with who had bad reputations. trump baja in mexico. $32.5 million of consumers

invested in the property and never got money back because donald put his face on the building and never delivered on the building. a pattern donald has of surrounding himself with people who reflect who he is. i commonly heard in my travels, i know people that have gotten taken advantage by donald. i don't know how you can work with him. >> i have to leave it there. coming up in our next hour, the possibility of a donald trump n word tape. i'll show you my interview with aretha franklin, but first, trump's ties with the russian mafia. stay with us 6789. i got it. i gotcha baby. (vo) it's being there when you're needed most. he's the one. (vo love is knowing... it was meant to be. and love always keeps you safe. (vo) love is why we built a car you can trust for a long time. the all-new subaru impreza sedan and five-door.

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♪ sir, do you -- does the russian government have any compromising material on president trump or his family? >> translator: i did hear these rumors that we allegedly collected compromising material on mr. trump when he visited moscow. distinguished colleague, let me tell you this, when president trump visited moscow back then, i didn't even know he was in moscow. please, just disregard these

issues and don't think anymore about this again. >> and i have to say, if they had it, it would have been out long ago. >> donald trump's refusal to say anything bad about vladimir putin has many asking why. a new book suggests the answer may lie in trump's decade's long relationship with the russian government and the russian ma a mafia. joining me now is craig unger, author of the new book "house of trump, house of putin: the untold story of donald trump and the russian mafia." now, let me ask you, craig, the russian mafia. this is not hyperbole here. you're saying donald trump has had involvement with the russian mob. the mafia, as we know it, in this country? is. >> absolutely. i'm talking about people on the fbi most wanted list. people who have been indicted

for money laundering and convicted. and i go back to 1984 when a man went into trump tower, put down $6 million, that's the equivalent of $15 million today, in cash, and said, i'll take five condos. and he was effectively laundering money, according to the state attorney general of new york. you hear all this talk about revoking national security clearances. if there is one man who would never get a security clearance in a gazillion years, it's donald trump. one thing, you have to show your tax returns. but having more than 30 years of laundering money, his real estate has laundered hundreds of millions, actually billions of dollars for the russian mafia. >> now, engaging there this kind of connection, and you put a lot of this in your book, let's assume everything in here is iron clad true, would you then argue that the russians have

such compromising evidence or such compromising situations that it impacts his decision -- decisions as president of the united states, which therefore violates the trust of the american people? notwithstanding his business dealings. are you saying that he is guided in his policy decisions based on what they could have on donald trump? >> i think he's absolutely completely compromised. one thing that's really important about the russian mafia that i want americans to understand is it's very different from what we think of when we think of the god father, the italian american mafia. i interviewed the former kgb who was head of counterintelligence, when i asked him about the russian mafia, he said, oh, that's another branch of the kgb. they reported to us. they are part of russian intelligence.

you have part over a 30-year period part of russian intelligence. if i may read one quote he gave me, he says, i would not be surprised if the russians have and trump knows about them, files on him during his trip to russia and his involvement in meeting young ladies that were controlled by russian intelligence. the general was the boss of vladimir putin. so -- >> and that's a quote from him? >> absolutely. >> i'm going to leave it there. sometimes they taught me in brooklyn, enough said.

can you stand at the podium and guarantee the american people they'll never hear donald trump utter the "n" word on a recording in any context? >> i can't guarantee anything, but i can tell you the president addressed this question directly. i can tell you that i've never heard it. >> welcome back to "am joy," i'm al sharpton in for joy reid. this week donald trump's own press secretary couldn't guarantee a tape of trump using the "n " word isn't out there. do we really need a statement considering some of the past statements mr. trump has made?

>> when mexico sends its people, they're not sending the best. they're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists and some, i assume, are good people. >> donald j. trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states. >> you have some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. >> wouldn't you love to see one of these nfl owners which somebody disrespects our flag to say get that son of a bitch off the field right now, he's fired. he's fired! >> joining me now is virginia republican senate candidate cory stewart. let me go to you first, cory. if, in fact, there is a tape of

donald trump using the "n" word, would you then say he's a racist? this is something that has been raised by a black woman who was the highest profile person in his administration. so, it's not those of us that you call on the left raising this. this is someone who was his liaison to us that says she's heard this tape. if it exists, what would be your position? as a candidate for senate in virginia. >> well, look, first of all, reverend, thanks for having me on the show. the truth is, there's no evidence at all that it exists. even if it existed, the fact is -- or didn't exist, the fact is, you've already proclaimed him, you and the rest of the press have already proclaimed him a racist. if he wants to secure the border, it's about race. if he wants to ensure our nfl players are respecting our country, it's about race. if he wants to cut taxes, it's about race. everything according to the left-wing media is always about

race -- >> okay, but mr. stewart -- >> no matter what he does. >> mr. stewart, i am well aware of my position on mr. trump and race. i asked you your position. >> i know that you are. >> and i'm asking you about cory stewart, who's running for office, what your position would be if the tape exists. i know my position. >> yeah, the tape doesn't exist. the president's already said there's no tape of him doing that. >> so you won't even say if it exists. the fact this came from, as you know, omarosa was chosen by mr. trump to represent him as a liaison to the black community, hence, to my convention, reached out to us many times, went to black journalists and all. she's the one saying she heard the tape. this is a trump -- former trump supporter. so, this is not me saying he's a

racist. everybody knows my position on mr. trump. and cory stewart is right about that. we're talking about her saying there's a tape. >> i want to go back to the beginning of the segment where you play sarah sanders. sarah huckabee sanders lies every single day on behalf of donald trump. this issue she will not lie about. on this she's like, well, we don't know. i can't guarantee. i mean, if he's on tape saying the "n " word, then her lying about it would be the least of her problems. but given that, she's like, i'm not lying about that, i don't know, we'll find out together. look, we don't need to hear him saying the "n" word to know he's racist. he has one of the longest resumes of racist behaviors not just among politicians, but among people. he talked about birtherism, he stands on black people's necks

so he can appear taller to white people. white nationalism and white entitlement were at the basis of his campaign. we don't need any more evidence. the jury is in. >> mr. stewart, you're running for senate in a state that has a large black population. you and i disagree, but we invited you on. and let me ask you something. since you have so many black citizens in virginia, and you are offering them to be their senator, how do you define racism. i mean, you say everybody on the left always yells race. you called me a race bather. how do you define racism? >> you know, i got to tell you something. as i -- >> i wish you would -- >> all right, okay. all right. i'm not trying to be condescending here. i'm just trying to explain what i've seen out there. that is, as i go around virginia, people are not obsessed with race the way that you are and the rest of the left-wing media are.

>> that's why i'm asking you to define racism. >> but does he think racism -- >> wait a minute. i want him to tell me what is racism. do you believe there is a thing called racism? what is it? >> of course. i mean, it's using race as a basis to treat somebody differently in a very negative way, the way that you would treat somebody else of a different race. >> now, do you believe -- >> i haven't seen that -- >> -- that still exists because we even see in our strong economy, blacks are still doubly unemployed to white. we still see in the criminal justice system any number of studies even on the republicans that we're sentenced more. so, when you say this obsession on the left with race, if we are, according to data, even by republicans' administrations discriminated against and you happen to be born black or brown, you're not obsessed with it. you are it. you have to deal with your reality. >> well, let me ask you this,

then. we have a president because of his economic policies, the economy is booming along and we have the lowest unemployment rate ever for african-americans in this country. >> and still doublesed to white. it is still doubled that to whites. it is certainly better under this economy and it started under president obama. he inherited the trend. but we're still doubly unemployed to white. i'm glad you brought it up. what is trump's program, then, to bring that down where we're no longer doubly unemployed? how does he close that gap? >> i'll tell you that he's closing that gap. he's raising everybody up. >> how? >> you know, government -- >> how is he closing the gap? is he going to have affirmative action? >> everybody's -- >> if everybody is equally raised, we're still doubly

unemployed. if it's equal race. >> so, let me put on a couple of statistics out there for you. >> no, no, no, no. i asked you for -- you know, toure -- >> i'm trying to explain it. >> okay, go ahead. i wish you would explain it. >> i wish you would let me talk once in a while. >> you have the floor. explain to me how we're going to make equally those that can get jobs in this country. you have the floor. >> you know, the thing is that we're trying to raise everybody up. everybody just -- we want to raise everybody up. everybody's income. it's not -- it's not a difference that matters among race. the fact of the matter is, when real wages are rising, the fastest clip in 20 years, working class wages, that has a disproportionate positive impact for working class americans, especially african-americans and hispanics and other minorities who have a disproportionate share of those working class jobs. that's what the president is doing. by standing up to our foreign trade partners, bringing back

manufacturing, bringing back good jobs. everybody is benefiting -- >> what does not result -- toure, toure, i gave him the floor. he wouldn't answer. >> i hear -- >> he does not result in how you explain that we're still doubly unemployed to white. whether it's 3 to 6, whether it's 1 to 2, whether it's 10 to 20, we are still doubly unemployed. >> that is false. >> wait a minute, wait a minute. you wanted the floor. you had it. >> part of what i hear is part of why black people are not dealing with the gop at this point. he's talking about that we are obsessed with race, right? and he has this color blind approach that everybody will rise. we know that's not the case. this is a white supremacist country and we have to deal with that every day, in how we relate to police, how we relate to jobs, the criminal justice system, everything. when you talk about we are obsessed with race, what we hear is i don't want to deal with race. i want to not talk about it.

you should not talk about it. that is -- >> they don't have to talk about it. they're not the ones that are -- >> it's offensive to us in that you're just not going to deal with it at all. we have to deal with it. you will never have more than a sliver of the black community voting for you as long as you're talking about we are obsessed with race, which is a way of saying, stop talking about it. stop telling me to stop talking about it. this is an incredibly important thing that affects my life. i bd as a straight, white male that doesn't affect your life. if you want to represent other people, including black virginians, then you need to deal with what is actually affecting their lives. >> hey, toure, you don't actually know very much about me. i represent one of the most -- in fact, the first majority/minority county in virginia, in northern virginia. the second largest locality in that state. it's a majority/minority county. i would not have been elected four times countywide if not for the strong support from the african-american community and other minorities in my

community. you know the reason they vote for me is because they understand that i'm out there for everybody supporting them, supporting their schools, supporting their roads, improving their economy. and the fact of the matter is, what's good for -- this is good for everybody. and when you guys in the media, you're in a media bubble out there, toure. you just don't understand that most americans out there don't care and they don't care that much about race. you guys are so obsessed with it that you're blinding other issues that are a lot more important. >> let me say this. i had you on my show and i went and preached in charlottesville and i visited your county. and hundreds of blacks came out and told me that they are concerned about race. and they are not getting the same treatment of others in your county. so, maybe you're not talking to everybody when you're going around virginia. maybe the reason that you're not hearing a lot about race is you're not talking to a lot of people that have a different race. couldn't that be the case, cory?

>> no, it's not. in fact, i've been visiting hundreds of people at state fairs, in shopping malls, in grocery stores, in schools. i'm talking to normal people in prince william county. i don't know if you were there -- >> you're saying the people that go to church in virginia are not -- >> yesterday -- yesterday i visited the mosque in my community. i visited african-american churches -- >> and none of them -- >> on a weekly basis. >> and none of them are concerned about race? >> you know -- >> i asked you a question. >> they're concerned about -- they're concerned about -- let me tell you what they told me they're concerned about. they want this good economy to continue going. they want the economy to continue to grow. they want to make sure their kids are in good schools. they want to make sure their kids have jobs after they're out of school. >> and they want their kids to have equal opportunity to get those jobs. they want their kids to sister equal opportunity to get those jobs. >> is there any -- >> they want them to have opportunity in the jail, in the

criminal justice system, in anything. >> is there anything your black constituents or potential black constituents want that your white constituents don't need? >> no. >> nothing? >> it's all the same thing. >> no issues around police brutality, criminal justice, no issues around economics? there's no difference from what the black and white constituents need? >> let me -- let me tell you something. i've been listening to my constituents for a long, long time. i'll tell you, whether they're white or black or hispanic or asian, they respect our police. they don't believe -- >> oh, yeah, absolutely. >> -- the whole line that the police are the enemy. they respect our police. and our police have a very good relationship with the entire community, including the minorities communities in -- >> we don't expect police to break the law and we disrespect police that are brutal. let me ask you something. you're running state wide in virginia. i know a lot of the virginia black leadership, the former mayor of richmond, virginia,

dwight jones is on the board of my civil rights organization. name me the black leaders in virginia since you have such a great record in your county, name me the black leaders supporting you for the senate? >> well, i'll tell you, you know, i'm not going to go out there and name some individuals that -- >> why not? >> i can tell you there's a lot of people -- >> name me three -- >> i'm not going to drop their names. >> you tell me all these people you talk to. name me three black leaders. name me one that's supporting you, since you have this great record. >> let me tell you -- >> since you have this great record, it would seem to me that since you had this great record and blacks you say have voted for you over and over again, there has to be some black leadership in virginia that knows about your great record and they're supporting you for the senate. name them. you're on national television. >> you know, here's -- all right. here's the thing, reverend, i think you -- you're stuck back in the 1960s -- >> no, no, no, i'm on your election this year. we're not talking about the 1960

virginia race. we're talking about right now. >> i'm talking about average people. >> in 2018, cory stewart is running. he has said on national tv he's been voted on several times by blacks in this county. i'm asking him for the third time to name me one black leader in virginia that's supporting you for the senate because i'm sure if you had that record, they'd have to be at least one that says send this man to the senate. he will fight for everybody equally. name them. >> you know, i don't think like you do. you think top-down. you think -- >> i'm not thinking top-down. i'm giving you bottom-up. give me bottom-up black leader. give me a bottom-up black leader. >> you're so obsessed with race, reverend, it's unbelievable. the country has moved on. you're stuck in a different time. >> you see, toure -- >> and you don't -- >> if you ask them to put a face on what they represent, then we're obsessed with race. he's the one that said the

blacks in his county love him. he's the one that said -- so i'm saying, name them. give me the name of a leader. >> i understand your pain, reverend. it's a very difficult interview. he's unable to answer any of the questions. later we can ask him if the civil war was fought over slavery. that will be very interesting. >> no, he and i fought about that, he wants to maintain the statues. >> toure. >> let me get back to president trump. >> you know, toure -- >> lets get -- >> toure, for someone my age, you should know the country has moved on. we have mixed communities today. mixed families. people don't look at each other based on their race first anymore. we have moved on. america has benefitted, america is better than it was. >> i don't -- >> i wish -- i wish that the nation had moved on. i wish that it would be just that easy to say that bias is gone, but it's simply not. it's deeply ingrained in all of us. as a nation, we continue to see

black and brown people as worth less. that's why we have a national organization -- >> oh. >> -- that's called black lives matter because that essential phrase just needs to be said. and we have a president who is openly racist. and the david dukes and the richard spencers of the world support and celebrate and worship him. we have a significantly deep problem in this country. and i understand that as a straight, white man you think we've moved on because it's not a problem in my life but it's a problem in the lives of millions of black and brown americans. >> let me say this. i think i think america -- >> toure, toure -- >> whoa, whoa, whoa. just a second. i think that -- >> all right, all right. look, toure -- >> you have to be very careful here. america, corey, has made a lot of progress, no doubt about it, but it has a long way to go. we made the progress because we did deal with race. not avoid race. and for you -- >> we're making progress right now. we're making progress right now.

>> i've asked you to show me where the progress is. >> coming back to this country. >> and we are still doubly unemployed. i asked you to show me where the problem is. i asked you to name me a black leader in your state supporting me. just like kellyanne conway couldn't name the black in the trump administration, you can't name a black leader. so, we made progress. >> you see everything through the lens of race. i don't. that's the difference. >> i asked you based on what you say -- >> but your color blindness is not progress. >> i gave you the opportunity to just shut me down and you bolstered my argument. that's why i love to have you on. toure will be back with us. >> i love to be on your show, reverend. >> i know -- >> you're a good man at heart. >> i'm a good man at heart. and i know you think it jacks up your whole, embellishes your base that you go on and rumble with me, but you never thought i was going to really ask you to look beyond -- let's see if the

wizard really has any clothes back there. and you couldn't come out with your cape on, corey. i'm going to give you another chance. >> where are we? we're mixing metaphors like crazy, rev. coming up, the latest with trump's unprecedented stripping of security clearances. ♪ ooh, heaven is a place on earth ♪ uhp. i didn't believe it. again. ♪ ooh, baby, do you know what that's worth? ♪ i want to believe it. [ claps hands ] ♪ ooh i'm not hearing the confidence. okay, hold the name your price tool. power of options based on your budget! and! ♪ we'll make heaven a place on earth ♪ yeah! oh, my angels! ♪ ooh, heaven is a place on earth ♪ [ sobs quietly ]

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brian's back? he doesn't get my room. he's only going to be here for like a week. like a month, tops. oh boy. wi-fi fast enough for the whole family is simple, easy, awesome. in many cultures, young men would stay with their families until their 40's. i think he's out of control.

he has the steering wheel of the american vehicle in his hands and he's veering wildly right now. he's trying to preserve and protect himself. so, what more demonstration do you want? when things get really, really bad, i'm glad that if his revoking my security clearance is going to wake some people up. >> former cia chief john brennan spoke with my colleague rachel maddow last night. his first interview since trump revoked his security clearance for apparently political purposes. meanwhile, dozens of former cia officials, including several former directors, have signed onto letters opposing trump's decision. back with me, former cia analyst anita, who signed one of those protest letters. former fbi double agent that individual -- navid and matt.

the president has had this unprecedented move of removing security clearance from mr. brennan and many have objected to it for several different reasons and many including nader has said, well, this is just dead wrong. yet we have not heard a lot of the republican leadership speaking any collective about this issue either way. it seems to be like everyone seems to be on the republican leadership side, kind of ducking it or kind of playing it down. what sayeth thou, matt? >> i'd say, first, it is the august recess. the house has been out of session. the members are not in washington.

the members are not getting lots of questions asked by media. the senate was in session last week. i think i saw senator susan collins, republican of maine, criticize this decision to pull brennan's security clearance. i imagine over the next week there will be more conversation and more comments from leading republicans. here's what i really think happened. i really think this is about president trump wanting to get the omarosa story out of the public debate, out of newspapers. they were taking a more independent view on security clearances and he decided to announce the brennan one to distract everyone from omarosa's tapes and books. obviously, that's not a reason to revoke security clearance -- >> that's scary. you're going to take someone's security clearances, someone that could be helpful with advice, with sharing contacts, that could be needed to secure the united states, and you're going to take that clearance away because you want to change the news cycle because it's

going against you? that's scary, matt. and you're a republican saying that. >> if you look at the rollout, it was initially confused. it wasn't even clear what the criteria was or reason was. ultimately he tied it to the russian investigation in some way. i don't fully understand what the criteria was. no one is questioning whether he has the authority to do this. it was whether it was the right decision, whether there was an independent criteria. listen, the president shouldn't be punishing opponents by revoking security clearances. that's not why we have security clearances. the intelligence community has always been entirely independent of politics. in the last year, i think to be fair, reverend, we've seen some questions about some individuals in the intelligence community. perhaps a number in the fbi who have been demoted or retired over questions about the fbi investigation of the hillary clinton e-mail situation. so, there have been questions on both sides. what i would say is i don't

support using the revocation of a security clearance for political purpose or change a narrative on cable news, which appears to be why he did it, when he did it. i think they need to have an independent criteria. i think that would be the right way to approach it. >> why did you sign on? what was the reason you signed on with others that took issue with this? >> i signed the letter supporting the executives that were supporting former director brennan because i don't think the president has the right, and i don't think he should be taking away people's security clearance based on them having a political opinion and having an opinion about his administration. director brennan has left the cia. he's made his comments after he left the cia. to me this feels more like retribution than punishment. this wasn't based, as matt said, on something specific that has to deal with national security. this is based on trump not liking what brennan is saying.

in the same way he talks about fake news and cable tv and people shouldn't watch it. i think he's denigrating brennan largely because he's speaking out about the trump administration. in effect, he's also having an impact on what people are watching. >> let me go to you then. the danger of politicizing security clearances is are we now going to see where when a democrat comes in, we'll take all the clearances away from republicans and vice versa and soon we're really looking at it becoming just a political piece that we just give -- take away based on the politics of the person rather than their ability to add to the security of the american people? and maybe i'm in a minority, but i think that is a frightening proposition.

>> you're absolutely right. to piggyback on what nada is saying, look, two people that are not being sanctioned and having their security clearance revoked, jared kushner and michael flynn, who pled guilty. i understand this is -- and matt's right, this is probably moved to change the narrative by donald trump, but the reality is it actually does have a chilling impact on people much, much, much lower. i'm a person of minority, a person of color, hi to go through a two-year process to get security clearance. nada went through a similar thing. to silence those voices, to come in and say, you might be a registered democrat, maybe you shouldn't apply to this position, maybe you shouldn't join the intelligence sxhigs. you want diversity of thought. you want different viewpoints. that makes us a stronger country. if you just have people that are just white and not encouraging different voices in there, you're not going to be -- we're not going to be safer. look, i understand that the impact to brennan is minimal. i understand that the president is doing this for political reasons.

what no one is discussing is the actual impact this has in terms of the national security, which is what you're saying, rev. this is something that has a chilling impact at a time which maybe a lot of people aren't going to want to join the intelligence community to begin with. if they're looking at this and saying, my goodness, i could have my security clearance revoked because of my political beliefs, that's just chilling. >> i think that what bothers me more than anything, matt, is that what he just said, what naveed just said. young people that want to get into the intelligence community that now become frozen, saying, wait a minute, if i get in, am i no longer going to be able to even just in casual conversations, family outings, express myself? where are we going to draw the line here on where i can be in a position where my security clearance is revoked and that follow me on my resume the rest of my life? and could impact my ability to

make a living for me and my family. it's chilling to think what this could mean to the future of bringing in people that we need for intelligence gathering in this country to secure the people of the country. ye >> there's a distinction in the federal government between career employees and political appointees. i was a political appointee at department of homeland security. most of the folks in the intelligence community, the analysts like our guests here and our guest who was at the fbi, were career employees. there should be no -- no political screen whatsoever to career employees. none whatsoever. political appointees should be appointed by the president and align with what his or her agenda is. that's the distinction. if it ever got to the point that naveed is talking about, where someone went into the cia and got an interim clearance and

expressed a view privately at the agency and their security clearance was revoked because they expressed that view, that would be outrageous, i think it would be unconstitutional, i would oppose it with every fiber of my being. that's not what we're talking about now. it's a former officials, an important distinction -- >> but we're opening the door to what naveed is saying. we can definitely get there because once you start saying former, present or future, it's up to me, it's based on politics, it's based on, as you say, the news cycle, then who's to stop me tomorrow from the 23-year-old guy that's saying something by the water cooler? the door is open and i think it will lead us to a dangerous place. got to go. thank you both -- all three of you, i should say. thank you all. after the break, a look back at the legendary career of aretha franklin. don't go away. what will you discover with a lens made by essilor?

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we have some sad news to report this morning. the death of former secretary-general of the united nations, kofi anan annan was the

first black afternoon to lead the oou.n. he won the nobel peace prize in 2001. i was lucky enough to have several meetings with mr. annan as secretary-general. he was a true statesman. coming up, a special tribute to the queen of soul. more "am joy" after the break. and american express has your back every step of the way- whether it's the comfort of knowing help is just a call away with global assist. or getting financing to fund your business. no one has your back like american express. so where ever you go. we're right there with you. the powerful backing of american express. don't do business without it. don't live life without it.

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♪ what you want ♪ baby i got it ♪ what you need ♪ you know i got it ♪ all i'm asking is for a little respect ♪ ♪ just a little bit ♪ baby just a little bit ♪ just a little bit funeral services for aretha franklin, it is beloved queen of soul are set to take place on august 31st in her hometown of detroit. the legendary singer died thursday of pancreatic cancer. i knew aretha for many years. her music, including the iconic song "respect," was part of the soundtrack of the civil rights movement. in my exclusive interview with aretha four years ago, i asked her about the impact of that song. >> now, i have to ask you while you're here, the song "respect," i mean, it's a universal classic.

anywhere i've gone in the world, people love that song. >> they do. >> did you have any idea when you recorded "respect" that it was going to be what it was. >> no, i really did not. i did not have any idea that the civil rights movement would have got that as itsmantra. >> joining me now, social and cultural commentator danielle moody mills and toure is back with me. one of the things, danielle, that was interesting is that, you know, no question, aretha franklin, the greatest female vocalist of all time, and i'll get to it, also a real civil rights activist. people don't know how much she supported not only from dr. king but today, a lot of the things we're doing. but the irony is "respect," a song a lot of people knew about, she did not make a lot of the money on that because of how public it was done. and she led -- she was part of

the fight, that artists out to be paid for performing. otis redding had done the song. his estate gets the money. because performers don't get paid for that. aretha franklin is part of those that would raise theyish of rights of performers. but she was such a strong person who never apologized and never backed down of her rights of a woman, as a black. and she made people respect her. and i think that authenticity added to her fan base on a global level. >> yeah, there's no doubt the pathway that aretha franklin created for women, but especially for black women artists, right? to be able to own their sound, to own their power. i look now back since, you know, this week, everywhere there's a tribute, and look at how the beyonces, the rihannas, all of

these people have built their careers off of the work she did. when you think about aretha franklin and you think about being a black woman born in 1942, you think about having two kids by the time you're 14 years old, genius doesn't begin to describe the obstacles in the way that she was able to climb over so many obstacles, create just this iconic platform for black sound and for black power in a way that i don't think anyone else could have done at that time but her. >> and i knew of toure -- i started as a boy preacher in the pentecostal church, as you know, you wrote about it in "playboy" magazine. >> yes. >> and you wrote about her father, who was the preeminent black minister when i was a little boy and aretha was about 13 years old, so i looked up to her because i knew her as a gospel singer. then this relationship in civil

rights. and one of the things that always struck me in the music world, aretha was one of the few that would never leave her base. she was a crossover. she could sing classical. the famous story of her -- >> the grammiegrammiegrammys. >> she got up there in seven hours and killed it. she could do classical, r&b, but she remained true to who she was. >> i think this is the greatest singer america has ever plussed. not just female singer but i can't think of anyone else america has produced who's greater than this because of the way she's able to make you feel. you feel those records. you feel these women who she's singing about. dr. feelgood. i remember a girlfriend in college playing me this record, this is how i want you to be.

you feel it in your bones. the gospel and blues roots that are deep in her. haley jackson is one of her extended mothers, right? that is what makes these records really, really come to life. other people could have sang them, but you wouldn't have the voice, you wouldn't have the phrasing, you wouldn't have the feeling that aretha gives it. >> you can hear other singers, but you felt and then heard aretha, claire ward and jackson, she was that tradition. >> the image of president obama crying, like the tear just, like, coming down his face at the kennedy center because of the power that washes over you when you would -- when you listen be to her. yesterday i'm sitting at work and i'm listening to, you know, the soundtracks and all of these compilations that have been put together. i'm sitting there and i'm knocked over. there's something about that power. >> she meant it. it came from her. and when she sang at the president's inauguration, and i talked to her about that,

ultimate sunday morning church hat. >> yes. >> and i said to her, did you think about your father, who marched for this? she said, i thought about all of those generations, all the way to you, reverend al, that marched for this. and she would call me, toure, she would say, i'm going to send you something to help y'all out. she saw us fighting this case or that case. she says, i'll send it to the house. she would send a check to help. i'd say, i framed that check. who gets a check from aretha franklin she said, boy, put that in the bank before i spend it on something else. frame a copy. >> much to my mother's chagrin, i'm not a religious person, but when aretha talks about getting the spirit in the dark, i feel it. the gospel roots are so much a part of this. and she is the mother of all these women who are out here today, beyonce, alicia, mary j.

blige, they're all her daughters. she learned how to do it from her. >> let me thank you, danielle moody mills and, of course, my man, toure. tomorrow afternoon i will be in harlem with the national action network for special community salute in harlem, honoring aretha's life and legacy. coming up next, some personal reflections on the queen of soul. ♪ when you're feeling real low there's a great truth you should remember and know ♪ ♪ that you're young gifted and black you got your soul intact ♪ and packages. and it's also a story about people. people who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams they're handing us more than mail they're handing us their business and while we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country,

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then at your next meeting, set your seat height to its maximum level. bravo, tall meeting man. start winning today. book now at lq.com , you sang at the first inauguration at president obama. >> yes. >> and i think the only thing that may equal your fame as a vocalist is the hat you wore. everybody will always remember that. what was it like other than the bitter cold day for you to be standing there after your father marched, dr. king, and you born in teen see, to be standing there and being asked to sink at

the inauguration of the first african-american president in the history of this country? >> it was absolutely tremendous. to look out, a, and just see all of the throngs of people as far as you could see out in on front of you and to the right and to the left. and knowing what this moment in history was about, having evolved out of the civil rights movement. this moment is certain the dream of many. yourself, reverend jackson,berno forth, this is the fruition of their struggles and your struggles. >> aretha franklin, aside from being the greatest vocalist of all-time, was a committed and sincere freedom fighter.

she was one that would listen, study the news. she had a sharp a intellect. she was one who became the trendsetter because she watched what was going on, was committed to it and acted. used her platform to try to lift people that had not been lifted, give them strength because she understood their vulnerabilities. she lived a real life and tried to use her experiences and her pain that she had overcome and she had confronted to share that with others on how they could move forward. i am blessed to have known and watched her over decades. she never shamed or embarrassed

us as a people, as a nation, as people in this world. so when her family lies her to rest, they will not have to m e excuses for her. they will not have to give any kind of story to explain things. in fact we will have to explain to aretha why we didn't live up to all the things that she fought and stood so hard for, which is why in her name, let's use our platforms to really stand for something. she used to tell young artists don't just reach fame, use your fame to do things for things that matter bigger than you. don't just make money, protect your money and invest. she used wisdom and she never forgot her roots because she

never forgot. doesn't matter how tall you stand, if your roots are weak, the tree will not be able to survive. we in black america, it took us a long time to get a black president. but we always had a queen, one that represented us and represented others all over the world. that queen that had that regal presence, that queen that had that unmatchable voice, that queen that was able to express our inner feeling and passion, that queen that no one could crown and no one could take it away. she had the title, but the crown came from who she was. that queen was aretha franklin.

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