headquarters in new york. donald trump today sought to put his base on a war footing against the men and women investigating russian interference in the 2016 election. and for donald trump, the issue of stripping security clearances from critics of his foreign policy comes down to the reaction of the crowd. here's the president this morning on the response to his unprecedented action of retaliating against a critic by depriving former cia director john brennan of his security clearance. >> i've gotten tremendous response from having done that because security clearances are very important to me. very, very important. and i've had a tremendous response for having done that. if anything, i'm giving them a bigger voice. many people don't even know who he is. now he has a bigger voice.

that's okay with me. i've never respected him. i've never had a lot of respect. >> waiting for him to ask for a cut of his income. patron proving that attack on one is an attack on all, members of the intelligence community including 13 former intel chiefs, rebuke trump's broadside against brannan in a rare joint statement writing, "we have never before seen the approval or removal of security clearances used as a political tool. as was done in this case. beyond that, this action is clearly a signal to other current and former officials. as individuals who have helped preserve the right of americans to free speech, even when that right has been used to criticize us, that signal is inappropriate and deeply regrettable. in explaining the swell of concern about donald trump's conduct former officials of all political persuasions, one of the signatories told me today, "you can't do this. the intelligence community

doesn't function like this." speaking today to a source familiar with trump's earlier actions with the intelligence community, i'm told that donald trump was always skeptical of intelligence officials and viewed the entire community, even during the campaign as putting its finger on the scale for the clintons. clearly nothing about becoming president has changed any of that and none of his advisers, not john bolton, not cia director gina haspel or secretary of state and former cia director pompeo have been able to or willing to dull did the razor sharp engs off trump's animosity for the intelligence agencies that protect american national security. quite a stunning indictment of those men and women and their lack of influence. here to help us sift through the day's fireworks, some of our favorite reporters and friends, white house reporters ashley parker, joyce vance, former congresswoman donna edwards and john heilemann is back. tim o'brien, executive editor

for bloomberg opinion and author of the book "trump nation." ashley, let me start with you. intelligence community is usually reluctant to wade into domestic politics, viewing their voice as something to preserve for times of war or grave national security crises. i'm told that they view the trump presidency, the encroachment into the intelligence community and their work the disdain they show for their work product, and sort of the obliteration of norms as dire enough to warrant their participation. >> well, it's a striking group, a strikingly bipartisan group of former intel officials who signed that letter and striking the fact that they were willing to take the president on so publicly. i think one thing that's interesting there is you see a disconnect between these members who are willing to speak out and lend their voice which as you pointed out is something they

don't ordinarily do because they view this as such a matter of national importance compared to the president himself who sort of enjoys power of being able to strip away security clearances and views there in a way as just another fight where he can elevate brannan to just another villain and go mano y mano against one person. stakes for the two sides seem quite different. >> john, i want to talk about a few of the names on the list. yop actually know the party registration of anybody. >> just call me john. >> heilemann. >> that was so weird. i was looking around thinking who is on a remote named john. it can't be me. >> it's friday in august. >> how do i know your child is here? i can here liam over there. tootsie rolls. tgif. >> take your mom to workday. george tenet, critically important figure in the george

w. bush figure, porter goss, hayden, nsa director, petraeus, one of the most significant and important generals on the battlefield in iraq, architect of the counter insurgency strategy and gates served as secretary of defense for george w. bush and president obama. not a lot of people from the resistance on that list. not one. so he's now at war with people who have -- who had, i haven't tested lately, a sizable impact on the republican presidency, the last one before his as well as people with a lot of credibility inside the circles of sort of vanquished republicans who used to have a say over the direction of their party. >> he's always been at war with them. the dins was it was not open war and they were not fighting back. his suspicion of people in this world goes back to before he became president. by the time he was a president-elect, he was attacking this group.

now, he's gone so far with the brannan decision. i would say it's like the straw on the camel's back. the brannan decision triggered this. these people have been upset, troubled, concerned about the future of the country. most of them privately think trump is not fit for office. republican and democrat. some of them publicly. but all of them have been kind of trying to hold their fire because unlike brannan who very early decided that he is concerned about the future of the country as such he had to speak out and break with the normal protocol for intelligence officials, high intelligence officials and start to take a public posture, of these others do not want to be on the public political stage. they have felt the accumulation of slights, fears and this was the thing that triggered them to come out. i don't know what effect it will have if it has any effect. but helsinki was an important marker. this is the next stage in what looks like among respectable

responsible people who care about national security and understand the national security and intelligence communities of the country, his support now donald trump's has utterly collapsed in full public view. >> joyce, this is two things. this is using the granting and removing of security clearances as a political weapon. they are only supposed to be removed for national security risks if someone has leaked classified information. so to me, the striking things about that letter are one pointing out a new norm has been busted. but the other is what we said at the top, getting his base on a war footing against not just the mueller probe but against the entire national security apparatus. so that whatever is learned about russia's role in the 2016 election is brought down a notch in credibility. what does that look like to the men and women investigating this president? >> so i think it will do nothing other than cause them to stiffen their resolve and continue to do their job in the best tradition

of the justice department to ignore the noise, to ignore the people on the outside who try to influence your work, and to proceed just based on the facts and the law. they'll do that. i don't are any doubt. but one of the real problems, one of the real issues with this presidency is the way he continues to demonize those people and to cast doubt in the public's mind over whether justice department employees will continue to act that way as they always have looking just at the facts and the law. demonizing the intelligence community and the justice department is i think a long-term trump strategy so that when ultimately facts come out in the direction that we're now heading to indicate that his campaign if not he personally engaged in collusion, he'll be able to say to his base and i think in his mind perhaps to the american people, look, it's those bad guys in the intelligence community. and at the justice department. they're not fair. they've always had it in for me. john brennan was their ring

leader. you can discount their conclusions about russian interference and my campaign's conspiracy in essence to defraud the united states. >> joyce, let me show you what the president said to illustrate your point just this morning. >> mr. mueller's highly conflicted. in fact, comey is like his best friend. i could go into conflict after conflict. but sadly, mr. mueller is conflicted. let him write his report. we did nothing. there's no collusion. but if he was doing an honest report, he would write it on the other side. >> seld write it on the other side. i believe that jeff sessions was asked under oath about investigating the other side, about having a special counsel investigate the other side. i believe the question was posed by jim jordan of all people. and he said that there is not enough there. so his own attorney general had to knock that down. but talk about that and if you could also speak to jeremy bash's point this morning.

he said in axios, my concern this morning is that trump will strip the clearances of bob mueller and the investigation team. we need access to conduct the mother of all intelligence investigations. >> and that's the real rick. trump continues to test the water to see just how far he can go. he's been using norms from the get-go. we always like to say there's no bottom and there really hasn't been with this administration but there has to be a bottom and when the president starts removing tools that law enforcement and intelligence professionals need to do their jobs, that has to be a bottom where people with the ability to control this president need to stand up and take notice. people in the senate, people on the hill and the republican leadership should be beating a path to the oval office to tell the president he simply can't do this. they've let him get away with a lot and senator burr came up with a justification for stripping john brennan of his

security clearance. but the president is clearly on a path to do everything that he can to undercut the mueller investigation. at some point, republicans have to step in and say you can't do this. >> ashley parker, we also have a bridge between stripping a former intelligence chief of his clearance and what jeremy bash warned of stripping mueller. it's an individual named bruce ohr targeted by presidential tweets. he's a justice department official. can you just flesh out your understanding of the president's strategy in targeting this justice department official? and talk about how they're trying to normalize the practice and then hone their targets. >> so i think that's exactly it. you said normalize the practice. it is sort of the president on a lot of issues, not just this, does sort of test just how far he can go. what can he say, what can he tweet, what will -- what can he do and is there ever a red line from his base of support, from

the public and even from lawmakers in congress. often times the answer is no. he can sort of do what he wants and so i think that is part of that, getting a sense of how far he can go. one thing about bruce ohr that's interesting. we star started hearing his name a couple weeks ago from conservative ticks on the hill and conservative echo chambers like fox news and talk radio. i was waiting to see when would president trump mention his name. now obviously in comments today, and elevated him. that's something the president likes to do. oftentimes he takes -- he's able to shine a spotlight on them. you know, create a villain out of them and go much further than anyone else would be able to go against these people or on these issues. >> and let's stay right here, tim o'brien. this is part of the media run state. so much for state run media. this is the president talking about this justice department

official. this could be the test case to make the leap from stripping away clearances from former national security officials to stripping away clearances from sitting justice department officials. watch the president on there today. i think bruce ohr is a disgrace. i suspect i'll be taking it away very quickly. he's a disgrace with his wife nellie. for him to be doing what he did, that is a disgrace. that is disqualifying for mueller. >> doesn't work for mueller. he works at the justice department. it's reminiscent of his attacks on former acting fbi director mccabe and his wife who ran for political office. i actually don't think yates and mccabe have clearances anymore. talk about the tactic. >> donald trump is 72 years old. he's been doing this kind of stuff for about 50 years.

in new york he went after regulators and local politician who's got in the wave his business. when he went to atlantic city, the fbi was looking at possible organized crime ties there. he went after the fbi. this is not new behavior. and i think one of the long-term ob scentities that will come out of the administration is this freewheeling tarring of you would have who's don't have the same kind of power the president has and there undermining of institutional credibility. just in the last week, he's fauxsly called the immediate enemies of the state, he's labeled the russian investigation a witch hunt. last week he referred to fact checkers. fact checkers as bad people. right? >> facts are bad for him. >> right, because the facts are bad for him. the common thread uniting all of these attacks are these various institutions that play a role in our society to check power or question how power is used. media, law enforcement and the intelligence community. and he is not somebody who likes to be checked. and i think one of the long-term

impacts of trumpism is this you know, in judicious and autocratic assault on things that are nonpartisan and nonideological. >> donna, he's being investigated for very spec crimes associated with this conduct. we have ashley's colleague aaron blake in the west reminds us today of the federal statute that pribs retaliate against witnesses which comey, mccabe and yates are all are. whoever knowingly with the intent to retaliate takes any action harmful to any person for serving as a witness in a federal investigation shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years or both. so he's also under investigation by someone who i'm told is simply investigating crimes and deciding whether or not to charge and prosecute them. that's the mueller investigators. >> well, the president has actually shown no reluctance at

all to continuing to add to the number of things that the special counsel can investigate. and what's really shocking here maybe not show shocking is that we've heard virtually crickets from the congressional republicans and instead, we've actually heard more voices this time than at any other time actually agreeing with the president of the united states. and i think what disturbs me most in this is that first of all, you have all of these intelligence officials coming out in a way that they never have before. and some of whom just don't ever really speak on the record. and that is not enough to signal to congressional republicans that they have to put a stop to this president, and you know, speaker paul ryan i think is shameful. he said it was trolling. now we know it's not trolling. the ball is in his court to stand up and put a check on this

president. but i think we'll be waiting for many, many days for that. >> days? >> months. >> how about forever. >> yeah, forever. >> i think forever, too. >> i do want to say one last thing about the group. we'll come back to the very top which is about general mcraven who 37 years in the u.s. navy ran u.s. special operations command, jsoc europe, unable special warfare group. one of the most distinguished heroes in the last half century in the american military. donald trump today said he didn't know him and never heard of him. i raise it not because i'm surprised by his ignorance. i'm surprised ever by him being stupid. as a political matter, the troops, the base like if you're in the united states military right now and the commander in chief doesn't know who general mcraven was? what would you think if you were serving our country and that was what the president of the united states was saying, i don't know who the guy was who killed osama

bin laden. >> does the white house need to -- obviously matters of national security don't get through to him. matters of national security and sort of frpreserving our securi doesn't get through to him. ashley, thank you for spending time with us today. after the break, is donald trump prepping for another pardon? sounding sympathetic for the plight of paul manafort. could a pardon be next. >> and brand new reporting suggests that michael cohen had a change of heart about that hush money payment to a important star after the access who would tape came out. and donald trump should plan a return trip to france for the bastille day parade because his great big giant military parade is officially off. all those stories coming up. you wouldn't accept an incomplete job

from any one else. why accept it from an allergy pill? flonase relieves sneezing, itchy, watery eyes and a runny nose, plus nasal congestion, which most pills don't. it's more complete allergy relief. flonase. well, esurance makes it simple and affordable. in fact, drivers who switched from geico to esurance saved an average of $412. that's auto and home insurance for the modern world. esurance. an allstate company. click or call. sharper vision, without limits.

days that go from sun up to sun down. a whole world in all its beauty. three innovative technologies for our ultimate in vision, clarity, and protection. together in a single lens. essilor ultimate lens package. purchase the essilor ultimate lens package and get a second pair of qualifying lenses free. essilor. better sight. better life. that's confident. but it's not kayak confident. kayak searches hundreds of travel and airline sites to find the best flight for me. so i'm more than confident. how's your family? kayak. search one and done.

are you ready to take your then you need xfinity xfi.? a more powerful way to stay connected. it gives you super fast speeds for all your devices, provides the most wifi coverage for your home, and lets you control your network with the xfi app. it's the ultimate wifi experience. xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome.

i think the whole manafort trial is very sad. when you look at what's going on there, i think it's a very sad day for our country. he worked for me for a very short period of time. but you know what? he happens to be a very good person. and i think it's very sad what they've done to paul manafort. >> the i hope they have cable in jail. trump yet again blasting his own justice department while saying his former campaign chairman is not to blame. in fact, he's just a victim. this comes as we're awaiting a verdict in the manafort trial. jury has asked the court to finish up its second day of deliberations by the end of the hour because one of the members of the jury has an event he or she would like to attend

tonight. former assist isn't "uss attorney daniel goldman joins us from outside the courthouse in virginia. take us through the day's highlights. >> reporter: there are very few. we surprisingly have not heard anything from the jury other than their request to go home at 5:00 p.m. today which came at about 2:40 when they sent a note out asking to go home at 5:00 instead of the usual 5:30. based on what we saw yesterday from their note at the end of the day which listed four questions, it does seem like they are meticulously and carefully going through all 18 charges against paul manafort. this is complicated law. the judge did not accepted the law back to the jury. he just sent a recording of him reading the law to them for nearly two hours that they are supposed to sift through i guess. it's a very unusual practice of this judge. but it does make it harder for them to figure out what the law is and if they are going to be diligent about it as they appear to be, it's not surprising

they're taking their time. >> joyce, let me ask you about there president and his penchant for pardoning people who he views as wrongfully somehow prosecuted. scooter libby who pleaded guilty to perjury and obstruction. this is what he said about mr. libby. for years i've heard he's been treated unfairly. others that -- he was treated unfairly by our government. another, he wanted to take a couple pictures. they put him in jail. these were all people that admitted to committing crimes. he has such a soft spot. is his appetite for pardoning potential witnesses or other people convicted of crimes associated with the mueller probe pique anyone's interest. >> john dowd dangling pardons in front of gates and manafort had column in some of mueller's questioning. > i don't think the president has a soft spot for the people like scooter libby who he's

pardoned. i think instead he's engaged in a campaign designed to communicate to some of his former friends like paul manafort, like cohen, and in essence, dangle pardons on twitter. it's been a really just i think in many ways very distressing process to watch. when the president says that paul manafort who is on trial who is accused of having committed serious crimes, he says he's a good man. i think he's getting a bad deal. if you're paul manafort and you hear about that and we all know paul manafort's heard about that, it's difficult to read that as anything other than a message to manafort. hold on, don't cut a deal with the government while the jury's out which defendants sometimes do. a defendant who sees how bad the evidence is then goes to the prosecutors and says okay, um ready to plead guilty now. president is in essence saying don't do that. help is on the way. i can pad rden you in the future. and even more who knows if this

is intentional or not but a serious consequence is that this jury isn't sequestered. if some juror should happen to get wind of what the president said about paul manafort, it has great risk of prejudicing the jury. the president's conduct is reprehensible. he should be told to stay out of the criminal process. it may be ultimately mueller and his investigators will do that because although the president legally can issue pardons and they have the force of law, there's nothing that says that those pardons can't be viewed by investigators if they're issued with a bad or a wrongful moat tub that they can't be viewed as part of an ongoing chorus of obstructioning. > daniel gold man, i know there's a crush of media covering that trial and we're grateful that you're there covering it for us. i want to ask you some reporting that piqued my interest today. meet the special counsel team, so careful they don't even disclose their shake shack orders. standing near the valet in

flip-flops and a boxing t-shirt whiting for a dleefrl from shake shack. the moment would be unremarkable except for the trial of paul manafort. mueller's spokesman whose no comment replies became a dark joke would not confirm the order from shake shack. talk about how locked down, how locked up the mueller probe is even during their first trial. >> absolutely. and we even got word from the press officer for the special counsel peter carr that not only would no prosecutor or bob mueller not be speaking after this trial, but they likely would not be issuing a statement or a press release which is very common for prosecutor's offices after the conclusion of trials. they are taking the vow of silence to a new level. but you can also start to see the wear and tear of this trial on them. right before we were read the

jury note a couple hours ago, you could look at the prosecutor's face and greg andres had this look and his head down just great stress and agony. you can see that this is. >> i look like that in all the breaks. we don't know. i'm sure you're right. i'm sure he's stressed. i'm sorry. i cut you off. >> but they've stayed out of the path of the media. behind me, you can see everybody here on the plaza. mean highway, paul manafort's lawyers are sitting in the hotel bar across the street from the courthouse hanging out during the day while the jury's deliberating and walking back and forth in front of all the media, making comments after every single note. so it's a very different attitude from the two sides here. >> i this i i'd be rinking, too. daniel, thank you so much for being there for us. we're grateful to have you today and all week. >> after the break, the president and his not so

superpowers. no reporting on donald trump's most favorite presidential power plays. nto the street when you barely clip a passing car. minor accident - no big deal, right? wrong. your insurance company is gonna raise your rate after the other car got a scratch so small you coulda fixed it with a pen. maybe you should take that pen and use it to sign up with a different insurance company. for drivers with accident forgiveness liberty mutual won't raise their rates because of their first accident. liberty mutual insurance. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty ♪ my dbut now, i take used tometamucil every day.sh it traps and removes the waste that weighs me down, so i feel lighter. try metamucil, and begin to feel what lighter feels like.

the first survivor of alzis out there.ase and the alzheimer's association is going to make it happen. but we won't get there without you. join the fight with the alzheimer's association.

donald trump who has a so far unexplained affinity for dictators seems to crave two things more than anything else, power and acclaim. he wants to be able to do what he wants and have people cheer for him while he does it. exhibit a, this latest report from jonathan swan in axios which says, quote, four sources close to trump tell axios that the revocation of former cia director john brennan's clearance belongs in the same categories of president's love of the pardon power. and the signing of executive orders. it's a power that is uniquely and solely his and matches his idea of how the presidency ought to be. pure power and instant gratification. he should see "hamilton." whul stripping brannan's security clearance may have stripped trump's itch for power, it's a bad day for

power on the recognition front that military parade he wanted it's now canceled. here's what he tweeted about that this morning. the local politicians who run washington poorly, know a windfall when they see it. when asked to give us a price to hold a great celebratory military parade they wanted a number so ridiculously high that i canceled it. never let someone hold you up. i will attend the parade at andrews air force base and go to paris for their parade celebrating the end of the war on november 11. i'm sure he had to google that. maybe we'll do something next year in d.c. when the cost comes down. um not reading anymore. oh, wait, this is good. now we can buy more jet fighters. joining the table the 5th day this week, the rev al sharpton. this would be loony if it wasn't so scary. seriously, the whole idea -- i hate calling him unamerican because i think that's usually beyond the line. but it is not an understanding of the american government to only like -- the reason there are so few presidential powers that you can -- levers you can

but unilaterally is by design. the fact that he likes them the most sort of betrays the point of what the presidency was supposed to be. >> and what the military is for. he acts like we're playing with toy soldiers. >> right. >> or something to that regard. but when you're dealing with someone whose mentality is that all the parades in manhattan up and down 5th avenue were in honor of him because that's where the trump tower is -- >> because that's where he rented or built? >> that's right. so he probably would think of anything -- he's just thinking parade. we're talking about the military. we're talking about what we're showing the world. and he acts like this is some outing or something that we're doing that does not in any way take in the serious signal of what a parade ought to be. and the money. he's actually arguing with the mayor of washington, d.c. about the money. i thought the republicans were the people that didn't want to spend the money and increase the

debt. so i mean, the whole world is turned upside down with donald trump. >> and he wants to go to paris. he's going to own the libs by going to paris. he reveals himself as a rich guy. >> he has all these imaginary friends downing paris, now he's going to paris. but he told us about a friend who he can't find the name of that has talked about paris as embarrassing. >> i like when o'brien is here, he brings the bloomberg words like sibiritic. i like that word. got to go back earlier i messed up when i called mcraven an admiral. calm down, twitter. i got that wrong. here's the president who doesn't know one of the most decorated and successful military figures of the last 50 years wanting to throw a parade to honor our military. does that not make you think it was what it was about all along?

was the glory of donald trump? he likes a bunch of big guns. >> if he can have one, i can have one. >> he wants a bunch of people strutting in front of him and the prad stand because it's a little game of thrones like having a jousting match. >> saluting him. >> it's clack authoritarian behavior like juan peron and eveet tal up on the balcony of the casa looking down at the strutting military forces and who are under my command. that's what this is all about. more power to whoever -- whoever the real story is for why this guy canceled, whoever pulled the strings, put the price tag, whatever they did to get this shutdown, more power to them, you're the hero of the week. >> this is silly and we can laugh about it because he probably did like the pictures of a parade. he went to bastille day and liked what he saw. but there is a serious point here i think about the ability to act unilaterally. it flows from the conversation we had in the last block about pardons. it flows from this idea that not only does he not want to work with congress. forget about congress.

he doesn't coordinate with his own staff. he stripped brennan's clearances without calling the director of the cia or the dni. there is this unilateralism in him that has nothing to do with not working with the other branch of government and everything to do with simply sitting there with the clicker in his hand and his device in the other and tweeting and pardoning and executive ordering his way through his presidency. >> well, it's true. and i mean, he doesn't hide that. i mean, he has said on a number of occasions that he would like to have that kind of unilateral authority that he's witnessed in autocratic societies. he wants that in the united states. and he's acting that way in the limited way that he can, whether it's through -- around dangling pardons or security clearances or trying to order the military to have a parade. i actually thought the best response to the president was from mayor muriel bowser who clapped right back and said, don't blame it on d.c., we've

already spent $21.6 million on your parades because -- in trump's america. you know, we've had that. you're showing it on the screen. i think, you know, we really do need to challenge this president over and over again and i know it gets tedious because otherwise he will power grab and we've seen that too many times. >> joyce, let me ask you, taking this conversation from the glib to really the gravely serious for this president who is under investigation. lawrence tribe tweeted, the classic way to commit high crime or misdemeanor is to abuse, to use for an illegitimate purpose like obstructing justice or punishing critics unilateral presidential power like the power to deny access to information or to dangle a pardon. again, tying this into the last conversation. does this affinity for, this appetite for, this ease -- i worked for a president -- presidential pardons were done at the very end of the presidency and they were so -- it was really one of the most

sober deliberations. i mean, he decided not to pardon one of his most senior aides, scooter libby. there were people inside his white house very close to him who disagreed with him. to see this president so flip about people over cases and crimes he knows nothing about. >> it's just a textbook case of abuse of power. and it seems to be what this president thrives on. you can imagine being president of the united states and all the capacity that you would have to act and to influence and better people's lives, and this is a president who enjoys pardoning, who enjoys stripping security clearances, who wants to have a parade to his glory, as opposed to doing the real work of government. you know, there's a saying in the justice department, you can go fast alone or far together. and this is a president who likes to go fast, doesn't really want to think about the consequences, but the hard work of bringing in stake holders seems to be beyond him.

>> all right. when we come back, new details on a payment to a porn star and why sudden silence from michael cohen should worry president donald trump. you wouldn't accept an incomplete job

from any one else. why accept it from an allergy pill? flonase relieves sneezing, itchy, watery eyes and a runny nose, plus nasal congestion, which most pills don't. it's more complete allergy relief. flonase.

but it's tough to gete enough of their nutrients. new one a day with nature's medley is the only complete multivitamin with antioxidants from one total serving of fruits and veggies try new one a day with nature's medley. lojust use priceline.ls on travel? you can save up to 60% on hotels. that's like $120 a night back in your pocket. go to priceline to get deals you won't find anywhere else. uhp. i didn't believe it. again. ♪ ooh, baby, do you know what that's worth? ♪ i want to believe it. [ claps hands ] ♪ ooh i'm not hearing the confidence. okay, hold the name your price tool. power of options based on your budget! and! ♪ we'll make heaven a place on earth ♪ yeah! oh, my angels!

♪ ooh, heaven is a place on earth ♪ [ sobs quietly ] it's all in the timing. a new report out from the "wall street journal" suggests the infamous access hollywood tape may have been what spurred trump's former fixer, michael cohen, to payoff stormy daniels. from that report, quote, michael cohen initially balked at the idea of buying the silence of a former adult film star who said she had sex with donald trump but he did an about face after a video of mr. trump talking about groping women became public in october. investigators looking for evidence that the payment was intend today help the campaign, quote, mr. cohen's apparent change of heart on buying ms. clifford's silence after the access hollywood tape surfaced and nearly capsized mr. trump's

campaign could help investigators make the link. the panel is still here. let me play chuck rosenberg on the mysterious silence of michael cohen. >> it makes me think of michael cohen. he's suddenly quiet. is he acting this week like a potentially cooperating witness? >> you bet he is. he's situated differently of course because he might end up being a defendant rather than just the witness. >> right. >> but right, the silence you hear from him is deafening and the reason you're hearing silence i think is because he's cooperating. he was asked that same thing. tell us the truth and don't talk to anyone else. and guess what? he's not talking to anyone else. i think it's a very good guess. >> joyce, do you agree? >> a good rule of thumb is to always agree with chuck rosenberg, former u.s. attorney, former chief of staff at the fbi, former head of dea. chuck is dead on the money here. cohen has gone from volatile public presence to radio silence. that is a sign loud and clear that he is cooperating or

approaching cooperation with prosecutors in the southern district of new york. >> you're nodding. >> yeah, i think, of course, he's cooperating because he has no cards left to play. it looks like there's overwhelming evidence on him suggesting bank fraud and tax fraud. i think when they first leaked, started leaking tapes, i think they were sending signals to trump he should pay attention to him. and now he's gone silent and i do think he's cooperating. i don't think his value to prosecutors is on campaign finance violations. i don't think that's a real threat to the president. he does have knowledge, however, about the machinations in trump tower in june of 2016 in that famous meeting when a group of russians came with compromising information on hillary clinton. and that has always been portrayed as an accidental meeting. don junior didn't know what it was about. we now know from more information that's come from michael cohen that there was some choreography about it. there was planning in advance. john brennan sort of comes back to close the loop here because

remember in early last year in congressional testimony, he said sometimes people go down a path where they break the law, and they don't even know they're doing it until it's too late. >> right, the witting and unwitting accomplices. >> that speaks to don junior. and i think in the last month or so, you really see trump starting to connect dots that he's been too dense to connect before, which is that his son is in trouble. >> let me ask you about cohen. we don't have to answer the question around this table about what cohen knows because donald trump answered it for us. on the day of the raid when he assembled his national security team he described the raid on cohen's home and offices as an attack on the nation. donald trump tells us everything we need to know about how much damage michael cohen can do to the trump family. >> everything about donald trump's reaction to -- we know that when -- trump -- people laugh when you say trump really started to go off the rails on x days. you could argue it's been for a long time. in the arc of this history when

it's written, there was a definitely a phase change of trump's tone, temperament, his level of lunacy and rage -- >> and angst. >> all those things are all tied up together. the moment when the cohen raid happened, that's going to be a new chapter or probably in a book that has like four or five parts. that would be a new part of the book that will lead into the period when the walls started to close in on trump. and i think everything about his behavior since then has signalled how concerned he is about cohen. we've seen a million examples that illustrate his degree of anxiety about it. again, i think -- tim pointed to a couple particular things. i continue to say that what is clear is that mueller is looking at if there is a criminal conspiracy between the trump campaign, including or not including donald trump and russia. it is a thing that has deep roots. it is not a thing that started two years ago, 18 months ago. it stretches back potentially decades.

and in particular, in the period when michael cohen was trump's brand ambassador and business international business development chief running around the globe including to russia a lot. cohen has spec things in the spec time frame we care about. he also has an enormous amount of context about the financial business intermingling of donald trump and dirty russian money. and if you're bob mueller and the southern district, if you're anybody that cares about donald trump and russia, mike cohen knows a lot. >> let me get you in on this, rev. >> when i had breakfast with cohen at his request three or four weeks ago, i think he was sending the signal then as his last thing. look, i'm standing with the country. he tells me i'm going to do what's right for my family. knowing it was going to go public. i think he was saying then to

trump and them you better cut me a deal now because i'm getting ready to go. because that's one of the last times we've heard anything from cohen is when he did stephanopoulous, boom. the thing i'd be concerned about if i was trump is that they would not be making a deal with him, assuming they are and it looks like they are, if he was not giving them something to make a deal about. >> right. you have to have something of value, correct. >> they would have already said to him what you're giving us is not worthy of making a deal and they would have moved ahead and prosecuted him. >> right. >> they've not indicted him. we're not hearing a leak of an indictment coming. all steps are looking at walking to the white house, mr. trump. >> the last step before witness protection is a visit with reverend al. >> i'm going to write that down. joyce vance, thank you for spending time with us this hour. when we come back, kellyanne conway is calling it kind of weird. wait until you hear what she's talking about. you might disagree.

i woke up in memphis and told... (harmonica interrupts) ...and told people about geico... (harmonica interrupts) how they could save 15% or more by... (harmonica interrupts) ...by just calling or going online to geico.com. (harmonica interrupts) (sighs and chuckles) sorry, are you gonna... (harmonica interrupts) everytime. geico. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance. applebee's to go. order online and get $5 off $25. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. sharper vision, without limits. days that go from sun up to sun down. a whole world in all its beauty. three innovative technologies for our ultimate in vision,

clarity, and protection. together in a single lens. essilor ultimate lens package. purchase the essilor ultimate lens package and get a second pair of qualifying lenses free. essilor. better sight. better life. [music playing] (ceo) haven't been playing golf this year, i am sorry about that. (vo) progress is in the pursuit. audi will cover your first month's lease payment on select models during summer of audi sales event.

with the new chase ink business unlimited card i get unlimited 1.5% cash back. it's so simple, i don't even have to think about it. so i think about mouthfeel. i don't think about the ink card. i think about nitrogen ice cream in supermarkets all over the world. i think about the details. fine, i obsess over the details. think about every part of your business except the one part that works without a thought your ink card. introducing chase ink business unlimited with unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase. chase for business. make more of what's yours.

why is everybody so obsessed with the president of the united states that they can't begin or end a sentence without mentioning his name five times, and it's kind of weird and it's affecting people on the news who fancy themselves security experts. >> that was kellyanne conway

wondering why people want to talk about the president, and want is a strong word. this is from the piece. the "washington post," she works for trump and he can't stand him. she is trump's loyal adviser, the woman that carried him over the finish line to the white house, and he is one of the president's most notable critics and wishes he never introduced his wife to him. i cannot imagine this fight in this marriage. i am sure they make it work, and it's stunning to me. they invited the "washington post" in, and this was a planned piece, a story they wanted to tell, i am guessing. >> and then they are angry it was told, at least she is. i feel like i am on an episode of the old show "can this

marriage be saved?" we spent time looking at kellyanne conway, we have george conway trolling the president, and then it seems there's nothing in this white house that really is off limits, and that is part of their creation and their fault. it's not because we are asking for it. >> i should point out, nothing in the report that suggests there's anything awry in kellyanne conway and mr. conway's marriage. it's about president trump. >> allow me for the moment to be a most cynical person in the room. if you are kellyanne conway or george conway, but what is the way in which i would maximize my revenue, my net worth?

i am looking for models. oh, gosh, and james and mary i love them is both and she is genuinely conservative and that he is liberal, but they made an industry out of the oddness of their marriage and she hated bill clinton and he loved bill clinton, and it strikes me as plausible this story in which they invited because the first launch of the cable show they want to host where they go after each other six years from now. >> the older i get the less i know about marriage and politics. >> in support of john's cynical theory, is she goes on the little tirade about george, and she says, oh, it was off the record, right? knowing it was not going to be off the record and the reporter says, no, we didn't establish that. >> she is an experienced press

person, right. we have to sneak in our last break. don't go anywhere. we will be right back. i've been making blades here at gillette for 20 years. there's a lot of innovation that goes into making america's #1 shave. precision machinery and high-quality materials from around the world. nobody else even comes close. now starting at $7.99. gillette. the best a man can get. (burke) abstract accident. seen it. covered it.ce music) we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪

hais not always easy. severe plaque psoriasis it's a long-distance run and you have the determination to keep going. humira has a proven track record of being prescribed for over ten years. it's the #1 prescribed biologic by dermatologists. more than 250,000 patients have chosen humira to fight their psoriasis. and they're not backing down. for most patients clearer skin is the proof. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma have happened, as have blood, liver and nervous system problems. serious allergic reactions and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. join over 250,000 people who have chosen humira. ask your dermatologist about humira & go.

it's time to actually act on my threat to broadcast the commercials. next week i will try it. thank you to our guests. thank you for putting up with us. i am nicole wallace. i will see you back here on monday at 4:00 p.m. power trip. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. breaking news from the associated press. just broke the news reported that omarosa manigault newman has more than just audio tapes. turns out according to the report, she has video, e-mails and text messages, lots of them that support her claims of president trump and all the