it's time to actually act on my threat to broadcast the commercials. next week i will try it. thank you to our guests. thank you for putting up with us. i am nicole wallace. i will see you back here on monday at 4:00 p.m. power trip. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. breaking news from the associated press. just broke the news reported that omarosa manigault newman has more than just audio tapes. turns out according to the report, she has video, e-mails and text messages, lots of them that support her claims of president trump and all the claims in her book.

we will get to that bombshell in just a moment. it just broke. we begin the other big story news tonight. obsessed with power, president trump appears ready and willing to use his office to punish enemies like omarosa and silence critics in the media and scare others including his own people into submission. having revoked security clearances, trump is weaponizing of the presidency in order to extract revenge. axios reports president trump has become enamored with power. consultation with anyone else. when it comes to yanking security clearances it is a power that is uniquely and solely his. it matches his idea of how the presidency should be, pure power and instant gratification.

he would do more if he could, if he thought he could get away with it. he tried to bully his attorney general into ending the russia probe and investigating his enemies. and yesterday "vanity fair" reported that president trump wants to have omarosa manigault arrested. arrested. as the "washington post" reports the president is eager to revoke more security clearances because, quote, he believes he has emerged looking strong and decisive in his escalating feud with brennan. let's listen. >> i know that i've gotten tremendous response from having

done that because security clearances are very important to me, very, very important. and i have had a tremendous response for having done that. >> reporter: it is political rhett pr retribution, sir? >> i am giving him a bigger voice. many people don't even know who he is. and now he has a bigger voice and that is okay with me. i like taking on voices like that. i never respected him. i never have had a lot of respect. >> now a dozen former cia leaders who have served in both parties have banded together to rebuke the president's unprecedented behavior. they write, we have never before seen the approval or removal of security clearance used as a political tool as was done in this case. some 60 more cia officials join with former directors in protesting the president's conduct.

gin joining me is the former cia acting director. i want to start with john. you know, i am not sure trump cares where he shoots. he is shooting. if anybody gets in his way, he goes with whatever weapon he can find in his holster. he wants to arrest omarosa. he wants his attorney general to go out and arrest her. suing her isn't enough. he does know he is allowed to yank security clearances so first weapon of choice. >> in this case, i don't think he looks strong and determined as he has said. he looks thoughtless and like a mad king. i have seen this movie before and it is never in a democracy. this is what you see when a tyrant uses power they hold to punish people who spoke out against him and frankly he has been transparent about this.

he basically says the guy is erratic. >> i often thought demagoguery is not a long-term good career move. the only one i know that got a long-time career out of it was franco. the rest died hideously. >> the other problem with this is it is not going to work because you can revoke the security clearances unilaterally of people who are out of government and who aren't actively using them anyway. but the problem with revoking security clearances as a strategy for dealing with your political problems is most of the people who have them need them to do jobs that they are doing in the service of you. so what are you going to do? >> you are talking about governing. trump is not interested what you are talking about. >> if you want to run the cia, you have to have people in security clearances. >> you are long-term thinking. reporting now, he loves any power he can get. >> i think there are moments

where we need to remind people that trump's presidency in itself a grand experiment in the american experience. never had a public without public service experience, government experience, military experience. and actually never had a president with no accountability even within as a businessman, he was a sole proprietor. he was not accountable to a board or shareholders, and we thought he would learn and respect the norms that had been established through the history of the country. here is why we are having this discussion. people comparing his move to nixon, having an enemies list. creeping towards authoritarian. nixon at least knew enough to be embarrassed of his list. >> he says they are enemies of the people. i think trump is back on his heels.

i think everything he is doing now with brennan is reacting on omarosa. and she has a lot more ammo than he has ever thought of. apparently getting to the next segment, she has e-mails, documents video, tape, everything. we are going to get to a lot of stuff. she has a hell of an arsenal. i think he is reacting. i think brennan paid the price forea for omarosa's. tapes scare trump. because it is not fake news. it is real. it's existent. your thoughts. you know this guy. >> well, first i agree with you 100%. donald trump is back on his heels and he is like a cornered

animal who will just keep striking out. especially when it comes to omarosa, because he knows what she is capable of. i do think now that we hear about more tapes, or videos and especially videos and e-mails, everything, that has got to concern him. also, let's not forget whenever he got after whether it is stormy daniels, omarosa, his bark is way worse than his bite. none of these nondisclosure agreements have held up. that's also something he is very much aware of. and he went after brennan. this man who is weak and petty, not surprisingly put himself before country. because that's what he is doing when he is revoking security clearances. it's all about himself and nothing to do with the security of the country. >> occasionally, more often for his own good, or too often for

his own good, admits stuff. as i mentioned appears to be an ulterior motive. trump made his decision weeks ago about brennan. however senior advisers recommended to the president that they announced the action wednesday amid an onslaught of news coverage of omarosa's new book. john, i know you are concerned about your institution, the cia, and the government of the united states, this president is primarily concerned about covering his butt. >> yeah. >> and he will use anything. >> i think that is why you see the signatures of all of these people on these letters. >> yeah. >> it's because all of them, particularly the directors and deputy directors have had governing responsibility, they had responsibility for granting these clearances, for adjudicating them and revoking them on occasion.

they have had them to do it under the law, fairly, and with integrity. and it affects the security of the united states. it has never been done in my memory for any political reason. in fact, do it for that reason and you will end up in court. the president has the authority to do it. i don't think he should because this is all -- all of this is governed by executive order. >> right. >> this is not legislation. this is an area he can seize upon, although i think it will rebound on him. >> people who have spent their life working for the fbi, and cia, i know through relatives and people, see themselves as working for america, the country, not some bureaucracy. they see themselves as the good guys and they don't make a lot of money. they do this their whole life because they think this is a cause, almost like a vocation, being somebody of god if you will because it is about country. and they want to defend these institutions. they believe people working with them is the same, serving their

country. trump comes along and what is his value system? this is all collateral damage to him. >> you left out something that is implied what you said and you didn't articulate it. and i want to flesh it out. people actually do believe -- i know people outside of washington have trouble with this, but it's really true that the people who work in these agencies have a deep-seeded idea of a political service, and they don't go in there as democrats or republicans. i know the fashionable thing is to think of them as the deep state that has some, you know, cosmic political interests of its own, and that's not the way to think of it. >> guys and women who want to get the facts out. >> how many jobs were created last month. >> it is important to know this. >> and people, people, there are

people in the cia who work on very particular parts of the world, political economy in myanmar. they want to get the political economy in myanmar right. they want to do good analysis -- >> i was a chapel hill grad, and i -- >> and then you have these value systems that trump is up against that he doesn't fathom. he doesn't understand selfless service. he doesn't know what that is. >> he can't even pretend not to be about himself and he can't even fake it. that really comes off to people who actually went in with a servicemen tal tea. >> it's not that he is just going after what he calls enemies of the people, and he is going after people that might testify against him. >> that was the point i was going to make, if you look at

the expanded list, because he put out an expanded list and nobody is pushing back on him. you look at the response in congress. he's not getting a lot of pushback there, so the dots that line up on the list and you look at people like sally yates where they have been involved in some form or fashion in the russia investigation, and it's people speaking out against him, and i was a little more surprised we did not have more pushback on the hill or at least an attempt -- >> >> you mean his republicans who find no fault with this man. >> kennedy called him political and a butt head. >> so there is either going along with it and defending it or just completely down-playing it. >> chris, can i add a point. >> go ahead, john. >> i am disappointed in the reaction of his party including

people i respect senator burr and graham and so forth. i don't know that they know what they are doing here because in societies that go bad, what happens is, the law is set aside and the procedures are set aside and if you notice what they have said about brennan is, basically they don't like him, he deserved it, he was out of line. that's not a reason to pull a security clearance. when you set aside the procedures and the normal way of doing this and you say we will just do this because these guys deserve it, you begin to erode the whole process of governing. >> where is this guy going. that jury is sitting right there and kissing up to manafort right now today as they are deciding his fate. trump saying good guy. nothing stopping trump. this used to be bad behavior when nixon went after charles manson and that was messing with

the jury and the jury pool, and this is talking to a jury and a jury that is sitting this weekend. >> he is also projecting a bit. one of the things that scares him a bit is mueller might have his tax returns. and that is one thing that manafort is on trial for tax evasion and other things. i don't think he cares about manafort. i think he cares about how it reflects on him. i do think he's very concerned about where this investigation is going and where his tax returns will show up. >> the amen corner, will they back him if he is caught as a cheat? >> i don't know. i find it so hard for me to say. it's so disappointing these members are not doing their job, and they are not putting country first, and, you know, that's where president trump is successful. he made it about an individual,

about brennan who has been talking badly about him and that's where unfortunately he is able to be successful in attacking people. the senators say, oh, well, he's just one person. let's see where donald trump takes this because there's only so much people are going to take from the republican party before they completely bolt. >> if you did this all on one day, and you stripped all of these people of their security clearances on the same day, we would be talking about it as a saturday night massacre. >> i said it before -- >> if you do it in slow motion, you get used to it along the way and you have defenders along the way. >> and the tank coming at president trump, aupl roomarosae is petrified. i think he is scared to death of somebody with tape, because tape has caused this guy trouble. thank you.

thank you very much. john brennan will be rachel maddow's guest tonight at 9:00 tonight. it's his first appearance since president trump revoked his security clearance. good timing for rachel, of course. coming up, omarosa reportedly has as many as 200 more tapes that she wants to like time-released aspirin. and it was hollywood's infamous "access hollywood" tape that led to giving daniels the money. so it does work. trump's overgrown and over price military parade gets cancelled. the "hardball" roundtable will weigh in with that one. and the escalating fight with andrew cuomo, a lot of fronts on this fight.

and then the newspapers coverage of did the death of aretha franklin. i was very impressed. this is "hardball." -morning. -morning. -what do we got? -keep an eye on that branch. might get windy. have a good shift. fire pit. last use -- 0600. i'd stay close. morning. ♪ get ready to switch. protected by flo. should say, "protected by alan and jamie." -right? -should it? when you bundle home and auto... run, alan! ...you get more than just savings. you get 'round-the-clock protection. ...you get more than just savings. (vo) ovewhelming air fresheners can send you running. so try febreze one. with no aerosols and no heavy perfumes. so you can spray and stay. febreze one. booking a flight doesn't have to be expensive. just go to priceline. it's the best place to book a flight a few days before my trip and still save up to 40%. just tap and go...

for the best savings on flights, go to priceline. still no verdict in the bank and tax fraud case against paul manafort. the jury wrapped up day two of deliberations. they will be back at work on monday morning. president trump spoke about the trial today, as i said, calling it a very sad day for our country. talk about jury tampering. let's watch. >> will you pardon manafort? >> i don't talk about that now. i think the whole manafort trial is very sad. when you look at what is going on there. it is a very sad day for our country. he worked for me for a short period of time but you know what, he happens to be a very good person. and i think it is sad what they have done to paul manafort. >> are you listening members of the jury, he wants you to be. be right back. olay ultra moisture body wash

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welcome back to "hardball." brand new reporting tonight that omarosa manigault newman has more than just audio tapes. according to a person with direct knowledge she also has a big stash, apparently a big one of e-mails and text messages and hard documentation supporting her claims against president trump. coming after released tapes already. she says she wasn't done yet and that is apparently true. let's watch. >> i'm not going to be bullied. i am not intimidated. going to go toe to toe with him. everything he throws at me, believe me, my tapes are better than theirs. >> you will release more tapes? >> if i need to. i will do what i have to do to protect myself.

>> i like your reporting and writing. let me go to ken. you reported she has hundreds of tapes. how do you react to the news that somebody is getting the reporting tonight of associated press that she has other forms of proof of what she wrote in the book. she said everything she wrote in the book is documented and do documentable. >> either she was going to cash in in her experience. or she was going to need to protect herself because she thought the trump inner circle. in this case, both manifests themselves and she is playing president trump's tactics against him very effectively in a way that is driving him crazy was can see from his twitter feed. >> do you know whether she began collecting this documentation, especially the audio tapes when

she knew she was going to be dumped on or disposed of or she did so from the begin stphg beginning? >> so far it was when she learned things were going south, and she is suggesting without any evidence that there's a whole lot more out there that is a whole lot more explosive, because, again, what we have seen thus far, it's telling both in the content and also to actually hear these things directly from some other people in their voice, but it's not bombshells. we have not seen anything super explosive, however, just like trump suggesting he has barack obama's birth certificate and it shows he was not born in the u.s., she has more here. >> trump was full of bs on his claims. she is providing. what she is providing so far is interesting to me.

first it was lara bush offering a lot of money right through the campaign. there was no definition of what the job was, it was just money. >> we kind of already newsom of that was going on. the super pac has a lot of people working for it that don't have clear job descriptions and fit into the categories of just hangers on. to hear lara trump make that offer, it's wanting us to lead to knowing more of what she has. >> i never heard of a job conversation where the offer of a job is primarily about the money. if you want to give a speech now that would be okay. it sounds like hush to me. hush, hush sweet omarosa. >> it really does. if you want to talk, if you want to exist, it is fine but please don't hurt us. i think that speaks to how important these tapes are to

trump. >> i don't think jenle kelly with all of his dignity, when he tried to erase her from the scene, please leave the building, had any idea of what kind of order of battle she had. >> it is fascinating. this is one of the crisis that trump has responded to most strongly. an existential threat to the whole trump m.o. which is about being slippery with the truth. x one day, and y the next. you never know, but when there is hard evidence, you can't do that anymore. it throws a wrench into the whole thing. >> if you are trump and you think you are the smartest guy in your family, i think that is fair to assume, he thinks so. and these people in his family and then he finds out that lara bush got taped, his daughter-in-law and he is already worried about don junior

at the tower with the rush kwrubz, and i wonder if he is worried that he is wondering what in the hell does that woman have on my kids because they didn't know they were being taped. your thoughts. that is what i think trump worried about. actually, she has already taped him too. >> yeah. and you even hear lara trump's tone in that tape that you guys did obtain. i don't think omarosa went in with this expectation of loyalty and sort of a warm mutual relationship. she went in and she was butting heads with people from the very beginning. she had a long list of folks that were on her bad side and she had motivation to be recording and it just so happens some of the tapes so far in my opinion are not super

condemning, so yes, it does and it should raise concerns about who else she has and what she has them saying. >> it was just broke christina that the reason they gave $130,000, a lot of money, it was because they heard the "access hollywood" tapes and they got spooked. >> yeah, i mean, again, it shows the power of the tapes and that it shows what trump's usual method is. he was going to completely lie about the whole affair and somebody had evidence and suddenly that doesn't work and that is frightening to trump. >> i love it when he says that is not my voice on the tape. great to have you on. christina or christine? >> christine. >> why did say somebody christina? i have been misinformed. up next, my colleague is going to join us to tell us about his interview tonight with trump

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that's one of the reasons in the group i founded, and i said one of things that hurt this country back in the '80s was the maximaization of share holder value. i like the fact that elizabeth warren ripped me off. >> that was former white house chief strategist, steve bannon a big interview coming on tonight at 10:00 with msnbc's ari melber who is sitting in for lawrence o'donnell. steve bannon was a leading force in president trump's campaign. pushing a nationalist agenda called america first. repb remember that approach? tougher trade policies. now, 18 months into his presidency, we face an unsettled trade war with trump. so what happened to trump's agenda that looked attractive to some people a little bit, who were smart, a little bit. joining us is the anchor of "the

beat," ari melber. i really wanted you to come on this show, because i am thinking when this guy bannon was first out there, it was just awful. he seemed too far right. around the edges were things that were attractive to people. there were things like, no more stupid wars. we are going to rebuild this country. we are going to rebuild stuff here. i don't see that. i see a guy saber rattling in trump. i see a guy who is arguing with omarosa and all these stupid fights. i don't see a guy pursuing rebuilding the country, and staying out of stupid wars. has this guy lost his influence? >> he is out. he is on the outs and trying to claw his way back in. some of the things that we talk

about in this interview that is airing later, how do you say that donald trump is for the working class when 83% of the tax cut benefits go to the top 1%? >> what does he say? >> and how do you deal with an infrastructure that said was going to passed. how do you deal with wall street when you don't take them on. >> let's take a look. i think you are going to give me a piece. let's take a look at your interview tonight, a little tease. >> we do not want to isolate america -- we got the wrong thing up there. we have to wait. that was frustrating. let's go. >> this election is going to come as a referendum on him. those around him are telling him it is okay to lose the house. you can run against a democratic house in 2020 is bad advice.

>> that's a political point and i think it's a good one. he said trump is floating around the idea, i can lose the house and blame everything on pelosi or the democrats and everybody else. this guy says you lose subpoena power, they will come and get you like nixon. >> this is where the republicans are in a divide. you have folks in washington around trump and down the hill, who are basically privately saying the house is written off and they will deal with it. then you have the hard-core guys, and bannon, he is somebody you like him or you don't, and whether you like him or not a lot of people don't, he was the guy who backed up trump after "access hollywood" and then they did go to win in november. he wants this to be no holds bar and say impeachment of trump is on the table. he talks about his daughter in the military and what it means. and how does that square with support with roy moore.

he talked about patriarchy. and if we are going to have gender equality, don't you have to take on patriarchy. this is a guy who is clearly reviled, is also getting in in a way other conservatives aren't. he is trying to push this conversation even as donald trump says they are not buddies. >> i think people have to listen to him and i congratulate you in getting him on. people on the center left where i am, they need to hear this other side. it is not going to change anybody's minds but you have got to know what you are up against. >> thank you, chris. in 2016, some people were caught by surprise because we were not listen to everything. >> we all thought hillary clinton was going to win, right up until 10:30 on election night. not enough angry white people. thank you, ari melber. full interview with steve bannon

airs tonight at 10:00 eastern. rachel has john brennan on tonight. and he is right in the middle of the news. up next giving our round table a chance in to weigh in on the security clearances and everything else. he is hitting them because he is scare of manigault. trump blaming the districts of columbia of forcing him to stop the parade. he is blaming the mayor of d.c. you are watching "hardball." and got more. more? got a company i can trust. that's a heck of a lot more. over 75 years of great savings and service. you can't argue with more. why would ya? geico. expect great savings and a whole lot more.

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back to "hardball." president trump's plan for a military parade this november has been shelved due to skyrocketing costs. the expected cost of the parade had ballooned up to possible $92 million for a one day

parade. the beginning estimate was 12 million, $12 million to 92. today trump wrote on twitter, the politicians who run washington d.c. poorly know a windfall when they see it. i canceled it. d.c.'s mayor tweeted yup, i am muriel bowser. he tweeted back. $21.6 million of parades events, demonstrations in trump country. sad. you may remember trump got military parade envy after attending a bastille day parade during a trip last july to france. i am joined by the "hardball" roundtable.

jeff, what do you make of this? if trump would have wanted his parade, he would have gone back with numbers crunchers and got the numbers down. >> nearly everybody thought this parade was a bad idea except for president trump, and when he tweeted that d.c. is poorly run, what he was doing is harkening back to the d.c. of the 1980s and 1990s. >> in the public eye, it is run by african americans and it works for him. >> we should say that d.c. has a budget surplus these days. and that was not the d.c. that president trump was talking about. >> he was talking about marion barry. >> you are talking -- >> and by the way, this is consistent with this guy. go ahead. >> you talk about how he is cutting welfare in the city and that is the impression of d.c. that people have. bowser is the most popular mayor in d.c. history. what i think the claim here -- >> clean as a whistle.

>> clean as a whistle. which is good for any big city mayor. >> they were planning on doing this in november. the president has a good chance of losing the house. i don't think it mattered that the pentagon didn't want to pay for it, and the city didn't want to pay for it. he didn't want to look like a fool after a bad election having a military parade. >> some of these weapons are heavy that they leave tracks on tar. it's not a joke. meanwhile president trump escalated a new fight, a new war fight i believe, and fighting with everybody like groucho marx these days. >> we are not going to make america great again, it was never that great. we have not reached greatness. >> well, governor cuomo received a backlash for that remark, and

today president trump took aim of cuomo's comments could be a career ender. cuomo told reporters the expression i used was unartful. >> we have to remember that andrew cuomo is in a re-election fight. there are a lot of people, if you are a minority, if you are a woman, that doesn't think america reached greatness for you. he very well could have been talking to those people. >> you think it was a smart punch? >> you have to remember he's in a primary fight -- >> why did he take it back? >> because your base hears you. and they are happy with what you are saying and they think you are taking it back because somebody made you. >> i agree with that. there's a lot of opinions here. go ahead, john. >> andrew cuomo is lucky that anything he says on the campaign

trail will be better than that. that is a low moment for him. but what i am hearing from cuomo -- >> this is from upstate new york, by the way. >> what i am hearing from cuomo's camp is we should expect him to be punching at donald trump a lot more. he sees this fight that donald trump is picking with me with all the tweets as an opportunity to draw a contrast between the view of government that trump has and what he is doing in new york. >> i agree with you. when you say america was dandy 50 years ago, in the '50s. the minority people, say not for us, and the women, not for us, and i am with you on that. >> he wants the trump and trump wants the fight. these are two politicians that think fighting makes them look better, stronger. >> the minute you have to explain your argument, you lost your argument. >> he has this standing in new

york. the governor of new york. >> let me ask you a question. i have been listening to you off camera. do you believe the polls that show him so far ahead of cynthia nixon he can't lose? >> i think he is quite popular in the state and i think it would be however unwise of him to write it off. we have seen in 2010 when a wave shows up unexpected people lose primaries, and cuomo is not going to be one of those. >> he spends hundreds of thousands on polls, right? >> i think he spends a lot of money on consulting. whether or not if he hits the numbers. cynthia nixon has a huge hill to climb. i think it helps him in a way to have somebody attack him. >> it is not going to cost her a bit to run this race. this is probably going to be good for her, i am guessing. >> for her. >> yeah. >> but the primary is good for him because now he has somebody

on the left that he can sort of position himself against. >> new york is moving though. even pataki moved to the left. anyway, kellyanne conway tried to defend trump's decision of tripping john brennan of his security clearance as saying he is somebody who is paid for his opinion. >> he is a former cia director. and shows no interest in helping this administration further the national security. he is paying for his opinion now. and his opinion is against the interest of the administration which are serving the interest of our national security. >> kellyanne conway's criticism of brennan, especially cynical because the president himself has recruited and employed countless pundits and executives to serve right his way,

including his national security adviser, john bolton. is it so bad to be on television, this president who did nine years of the apprentice. >> this president values what is said on cable news. and views it as something that needs to be addressed. >> sean hannity is sitting on his ear lobe. >> the president is watching the cable news and watching these people. if this guy was writing call kwrup -- columns in the "new york times," the president trump wouldn't have revoked the security clearance. >> does he read? i know he reads the headlines. >> he cares about what is in the headlines. >> kelly anne ways great guest for years. i am not going to knock it. these people telling me something i don't know. you are watching "hardball" . i tried the patch. they didn't work for me. i didn't think anything was going to work for me

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being america's best first job. we are back with the "hardball" roundtable, ginger tell me something i don't know. >> state legislative candidates across the country found that state legislators could go from 25% to 40% women. >> big republican donor sent a letter to customers saying they are raising prices because of the tariffs. you are starting to see the affect of the trump tariffs. >> president trump is said to spend 40 of the 60 days of the midterm on the trail. it's really an effort to get out the base. >> i think he can save the senate and not the house. we will see. ginger gibson, jonathan allen, jeff bennet. let me finish tonight with

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let me finish tonight with yet another effort to elevate the national conversation. i started out monday praising the world war ii broadcast of the great edward l. murrow.

i quoted from the no belle speech. an example of high tone political. last night i quoted another president ronald reagan on the essential value and validity. talking about the free press. i want to pay tribute to the pattern i saw today on the front pages of the major newspapers. "the new york times" and the "wall street journal" and "washington post" all displayed glorious photographs of aretha franklin. all three put the portrait of her well above the fold. that they did so said well. it was her life that demanded

the highest attention. what she did with it that put her up there just below the banner. it was her work that won this country's respect. her soul that seized this final hour. that is "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. it was another day of deliberations in manafort's trial today. we can report jurors are headed home without delivering a verdict. what does that mean? we will get into it. and the money trail is here with a new book and new reporting. later in the show we will air a preview of my interview with mr. bannon. we begin right now with our top story. donald trumps's clash with intelligence leaders, many across the spectrum say he is abusing national security powers