♪ this morning, back and forth over the meaning of truth. president trump's lawyer, rudy guilliani, claims truth isn't truth while trying to explain why the president shouldn't sit down with robert mueller. plus, former cia director john brennan is considering legal action after the white house revoked his security clearance, this as trump is drafting documents to strip others of security clearances as well. new reporting that president trump's former fixer michael cohen is being investigated for bank fraud in excess of 20 million dollars. ♪

good morning. it is monday, august 20. i'm ayman mohyeldin alongside louis bergdorf. on "meet the press" rudy guilliani pushed false hoods in the new position of the trump legal team about the aides meeting with russians in 2016. >> the meeting was for the purpose of getting information about clinton. the meeting turned into a meeting -- >> which in itself is attempted collusion. >> no, it is not. >> you said it, the meeting was intended to get dirt on hillary clinton from a criminal lawyer. >> no, it wasn't. >> that was the intention of the meeting. you said it. >> that was the original intention of the meeting. it turned out to be a meeting about another shouldn't and it was not pursued at all. of course, any meeting with regard to getting information on your opponent is something any candidate staff would take. if someone said, i have information about your opponent, you would take that meeting. >> from the russian government? >> she didn't rupt tepresent th

russian government. i don't even know if they knew she was russian at the time. >> here is the thing. those claims are blatantly false given the e-mails donald trump jr. posted more than a year ago in which he was told the woman offering dirt on hillary clinton was the crown prosecutor of rush you ya', the russian attorney, the russian government attorney. guilliani grappled with the risk of letting president trump be interviewed by special counsel robert mueller. >> i'm not going to be rushed into having him testify so he gets trapped into perjury. when you tell me that, you know, he should testify because he's going to tell the truth and he shouldn't worry, well, that's so silly because it is somebody's version of the truth, not the truth. he didn't have a conversation -- >> truth is truth. i don't mean to go -- >> no, it isn't truth. truth isn't truth. >> wow. president trump's inner circle is reportedly in the dark about what white house counsel don

mcgahn has said. he shared details investigators would not have learned otherwise according to those briefed on the matter. at least three voluntary interviews with investigators that totaled 30 hours over the past nine months, in mcgahn described the president's fury toward the russia investigation and the ways in which he urged mr. mcgahn to respond to it. now, he provided the investigators examining whether mr. trump obstructed justice a clear view of the president's most interest mat moments with his lawyers. among the topics he shared insight it into are the firing of james comey, alleged intents to put a loyalist in charge of the russia inquiry, pressure on attorney general jeff sessions. former outside counsel john dowd who arranged the kpoop ration with mueller called it a

complete fiction. yesterday, rudy guilliani addressed what mcgahn might have said. >> we have a good sense obviously of what mr. mcgahn testified to. i can figure it out from -- >> how do you say that, good sense? have you debriefed him? >> no, no, but mr. dowd has a fwd sen good sense of it. >> two people close to the president tell "the new york times" mcgahn's lawyer only a limited accounting of what the white house counsel has told special counsel investigators. joining me onset, dan any is a -- savalis. let's talk about the revelation that don mcgahn has been cooperating with the mueller investigation, to the sense at least he has been interviewed by them. what does it tell us and how does it fit into trump's legal strategy? >> there's no revelation that don mcgahn is talking to special counsel mueller. he is white house counsel, not

donald trump's personal lawyer. there is no way, and this is settled law, a case called lindsey back in the '90s that you cannot prevent the white house counsel from sitting down or being subpoenaed by a grand jury. you can't do it. so any legal team, including trump's legal team, would have known that in the course of mueller's investigation eventually he would have talked to don mcgahn about that list of things that you just pointed out. those are all critical pieces of the puzzle robert mueller needs to assemble, so don mcgahn was always going to talk to robert mueller, or at least it should have been anticipated. >> to be clear, he doesn't get to exercise attorney/client privilege because at this point he was working for the white house but in a capacity having intimate conversations or aware of the legal strategy of the administration? >> he does not get to assert attorney/client privilege or executive privilege. he is white house counsel, not

like rudy guilliani or jay sekulow or michael cohen, trump's personal attorneys. >> you have confidence they're aware of that? >> they're aware of precedence, that's a well-known case. they would have known that. does that mean they act differently around don mcgahn? that's a different question. they just put up the list again. the list of things that he may have been privy to -- there you go -- there are a bunch of things he may have seen that maybe the trump team didn't think it was significant at the time, now it has major significance. >> let's look at it from the perspective of bob mueller. what is his interest in mcgahn around some of the issues? we have the list of the topics, but what is it specifically mcgahn would be able to provide insight into? >> all of those things, anything he would have observed. donald trump comes in, for example, comes in upset about the recusal of his attorney general, he rants about it. that's something don mcgahn would have seen. those are all, again, parts of the overall picture that mueller is trying to put together. it may just be that he

establishes a timeline for mueller and helps him create the narrative that they have adopted at this point, and that is why it could be bad for trump because -- and i'm going to shock you here and we'll talk about it. rudy guilliani, i agree with him when he says truth is not always truth in the context of criminal prosecution. >> how about that? that might make the headlines. >> it might. it might. >> it certainly did. thanks a lot. we will talk a little bit. joining me dave lawler for axios. let's talk a little bit more about what i was discussing with dan a danny here, the significance of mcgahn's cooperation with the ongoing russia probe. how do you see snt. >> we have 30 hours with the guy who was there for crucial moments when trump was contemplating firing comey, firing film and mueller himself. that was under discussion for a while and he was part of the conversations. so if you are trying to figure out if trump obstructed justice,

who better to talk to than white house counsel who was privy to those conversations? also another fascinating participate of "the new york times" reporting is that mcgahn at the time thought he might be in the hot seat. he thought they might be setting him up to take the fall for this obstruction, potential obstruction charge, and so he had no reason not to be transparent. he wasn't necessarily operating on trump's team but trying to help himself out. >> that's interesting dynamic there. let's talk about rudy guilliani's tv appearances. he seems to be contradicting evidence that's already in the public sphere as we referenced earlier, that e-mail from donald trump jr. can mueller use his comments against trump as this investigation continues, these interviews that guilliani is doing that is contradicting the public record? >> there have been so many contradictions already around this meeting that he has plenty of ammunition to work with i would think if he was going to use it. an interesting factor of guilliani's tv appearances is he is out there to muddy the water, truth isn't truth kind of super it up. he is trying to plant a seed of

doubt ahead of the release of any reports saying, you can't trust what these people tell you, you know, this whole investigation has not been on the level, and you have to believe what we're saying. and so it might undermine his case when he's saying blatant falsehoods but he is in there to mix the things up. >> to quote the president when he said, don't believe what you are hearing or saying. we will talk in a bit. after revoking the security clearance of former cia director john brennan last week, president trump is escalating his threat to strip the clearance of bruce ohr. >> i think bruce ohr is a disgrace. i suspect i will be taking it away very quickly. i think that bruce ohr is a disgrace, with his wife nellie. for him to be in the justice department and to be doing what he did, that is a disgrace. >> strong words from the president there. bruce ohr has come under republican scrutiny for ties to fusion gps, which commissioned the steele dossier and where his

wife nelly worked back in 2016. on friday senior administration official told "the washington post" that the white house has drafted documents revoking the security clearances of current and former officials whom president trump has demanded be punished for kricriticizing him playing a role in the russia investigation. one senior white house oy fish said trump wants to sign most if not all of this. they communicated communications aides have discussed when to release them with unfavorable news cycles. john bryn thennan said he is weg legal action over his security clearances. >> if my clearances and my reputation as i'm being pulled through the mud, if that's the price we will pay to prevent donald trump to do it to someone

else, that's a small price to mean. if it means going to court, i will do that what are you going to doe now if john brennan sues you, sues the president? that's what he said on "meet the press" this morning, that he's going to come up with a legal pushback for losing the security clearance and he wants the make sure nobody else loses the security clearance. >> then we take his deposition right away. i would love to have brennan under oath two, three zaes. we will find out about him and what he did about being head of mission when the towers were bombed and our marines were killed, what he did about benghazi. >> or supporting communism. >> i don't know if i would go back to that, when you vote for gus -- how do you become cia director if in the midst of the cold war you voted from a communist?

>> federal investigators are investigating whether michael cohen committed bank and tax fraud. "the new york times" reported investigators are looking to determine whether he misrepresented the value of his assets to obtain loans owned by him and his family, this according to people familiar with the matter. federal investigators are looking into whether he violated finance or other laws by arranging financial deals to secure the silence of women who alleged to have affairs with donald trump. the times reports that the inquiry has not entered final stages and prosecutors are considering filing charges by the end of the month. >> andrew: cording to two people familiar with the matter, a spokesperson for lanny davis told nbc news davis could not comment on the ongoing investigation. still ahead, another weekend of violence in chicago unfortunately. we will take a look at those numbers. later, robert mueller recommends jail time for a former trump campaign aide. the special counsel thinks george papadopolous should spend

up to six months behind bars. those stories and a check on the weather when we come right back.

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stay with their families until their 40's. >> welcome back, everyone. it was another weekend marked by violence in chicago. according to the "chicago sun times" since friday night five were killed and 52 wounded in a wave of shootings throughout the city, including several teens and one three-year-old boy. throughout the weekend reports of the shootings came in faster than police could arrive at the scenes. multiple reports of the incidents are open investigations and very few arrests have been made. president trump is reportedly interested in privatizing the war in afghanistan. current and former senior administration officials tell nbc news trump has been increasingly directing his ire at the national security team about the u.s. strategy for america's longest war and has shown a renewed interest in a proposal by erik prince to prif size that war.

prince, whose sister is betsy devos, is founder of blackwater, a security contractors farm who had controversial moments in the war in iraq including the killing of civilians in baghdad in 2007. his plan is to replace troops for a contractor who would work for a special envoy reporting directly to president trump. >> my plan would say 2,000 u.s. special forces remain and around 6,000 contractors. it is not a privatization or private army. it is a clear delineation of who is in charge, okay, the afghan government working for a u.s. government official funded by the united states at a fraction of the cost of what we are spending now. >> what would it cost? >> if we leave it to the pentagon we will be at war forever. >> would you consider privatizing there, using contractors instead of u.s. military? there have been reports about that this week? >> there are always a lot of discussions. i find it helpful.

i am always open to new ideas but i'm not going to comment on what the thinking is. that ultimately will be the president's decision. >> a spokesperson for the national security counsel says prince's proposal is not under considerations and officials say both secretary of state mike pompeo and defense secretary mattis is against it although jared kushner is a fan. >> a lot of interesting, especially for a war that has lasted as long as afghanistan has. a check on the weather with bill karins. >> good morning to you. over the weekend a lot of people cooled temperatures off in the northern half of the country, almost a taste of fall in some areas. we have a big storm in the middle of the country. overnight thunderstorms probably woke a lot of people up in illinois. it is pouring in the northern half of iowa currently. later on today, it will trigger additional strong storms. five million people at risk for severe weather from memphis to

outside little rock. so a slight risk of severe weather. not too many tornados, isolated wind damages and chances of flash flooding out of this mess, too. by the time we get to tuesday the storm system will bring strong storms to the east. enough moisture and humidity will be around looks like the richmond area, washington, d.c., up through northern maryland, williams port possibly, too. 14 million at risk from these storms as they come through tuesday. here is the timing of the meps. going through the morning, heavy rain in eye way. chicago, around 5:00 p.m. you could get some downpours. going through the evening we will see additional storms racing through tennessee and also western kentucky. tuesday morning, isolated showers and storms in the great lakes. tuesday afternoon is when the chance of severe weather will be around from richmond to washington, d.c., hit and might in western new york and central pennsylvania. there's great weather to be had

out there. beautiful weather in the northeast and a great afternoon, mid 70s. for the middle of august, we'll take it. >> might be a good time to have an outdoor lunch if you can get off. thanks, bill. still ahead, justin verlander goes for 200th career win as the astros look to regain first place. we will have all of the details next in sports. i landed. i saw my leg did not look right. i was just finishing a ride. i felt this awful pain in my chest. i had a pe blood clot in my lung. i was scared. i had a dvt blood clot. having one really puts you in danger of having another. my doctor and i chose xarelto®. xarelto®. to help keep me protected. xarelto® is a latest-generation blood thinner that's... proven to treat and reduce the risk of dvt or pe blood clots from happening again. in clinical studies, almost 98% of patients on xarelto® did not experience another dvt or pe. xarelto® works differently.

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welcome back. time now for sports where olympic champion simone biles is adding more gold to her trophy cabinet after wrapping up her fifth u.s. gymnastics championship in boston. she swept all events, along with becoming the first woman to win all five golds at a nationals in more than two decades. congratulations to her. picking up in pittsburgh, the pirates tie with the cubs in the bottom of the 11th inning. >> the drive to right center field, and out goes fraz i can't remember with a walk-off. raise the jolly roger. >> fraziers shot out right center field wins pittsburgh the 2-1 win there. verlander earned his 200th career victory, striking out six in over five innings. he got help from sluggers who

hit a season-high. astros win 9-4. first place in the als. finally, a reminder of the dangers of professional auto racing. to the abc supply 500 in pennsylvania where rookie driver robert wickens suffered numerous injuries. his car was sent up the climbing catch fence and spinning through the air before coming down on to the track. it took rescue workers about 12 minutes to free him from the mangled wreck before he was taken by helicopter to a hospital in allentown, pennsylvania where indycar says he is being treated for injuries to lower extremities, right arm and spine. the latest statement always says he sustained a lung contusion and will undergo an mri and probable surgery. our thoughts are obviously with him and his family, hoping he makes a full recovery after that terrifying accident, ayman.

>> absolutely. just watching it is absolutely breathtaking and very scary there. >> yeah. >> as we mention, we hope a speedy and healthy recovery for him. still ahead, presume prepares the mueller probe to mccarthyism. plus, jurors in the paul manafort trial return for deliberations this morning as president trump expresses support for his former campaign chairman. those stories and much more coming up next. i've been making blades here at gillette for 20 years.

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♪

women come back, everyone. i'm ayman mohyeldin along sued louis bergdorf. let's start with the morning's top stories for you. president trump is growing bolder in his attacks of special counsel robert mueller, accusing him in a tweet yesterday of being heavily conflicted but offering no evidence. trump also tweeted saturday, study the late joseph mccarthy because we are now in a period with mueller and his game that make joseph mccarthy look like a baby. ironically, mccarthy's right-hand man was none other than roy kohn, who later served as donald trump's personal attorney and mentor before he died in 1986. on friday, trump cast more allegations at mueller, accusing him of bias. >> mr. mueller has a lot of conflicts also, directly yourself. so you know that. mr. mueller is highly conflicted. in fact, comey is like his best friend. i could go into conflict after

conflict, but sadly mr. mueller is conflict. but let him write his report. we did nothing. there's no collusion. but if he was doing an honest report he would write it on the other side. >> all right. so in another series of tweets yesterday, president trump insisted that white house lawyer don mcgahn isn't a rat and referenced the white house watergate era attorney that turned on richard nixon. he tweeted, "the new york times" wrote a fake piece implying the white house council don mcfwan was giving hours of testimony to the special counsel. i allowed him and all others to testify. i have nothing to hide. i have demanded transparency so this rigid witch hunt can come to a close. mccarthyism at its worse. yet mueller and his gang of dems refuse to look at crimes on the other side. media is even worse. he wrote, i still have trouble

using the title mr. president for someone installed by putin. i doubt you have any idea what mcgahn told mueller. teen was white house counsel for nixon and became a key witness in the watergate scandal. joining me from washington, world news editor for axios, dave lawler. good to have you back with us. let's talk about trump's tweets on john dean's signal he is worried about his lawyer's meeting with the special counsel. what do you think the significance of kind of the subtlety, if you will, between john dean, the reference, and mcgahn. >> according to "the new york times" reporting trump is obsessed with this parallel, this john dean situation and how he was able to taj and ultimately contribute to the takedown of nixon. if i was a president under investigation, i would probably limit the watergate references,

but he tends to say the quiet part out loud there i guess. my colleague jonathan swann called john dean after that tweet went out and i'm paraphrasing but dean said something like i hold the president in such low regard that i'm happy to be on his enemy's list, and if he said something nice i would be worried. so not much warm feeling back and forth between the two of them. >> yeah. do you think that we could see trump turning up his rhetoric on twitter against mueller to avoid a sit town ahedowns ahead of th midterms, when you hear what is coming out on twitter and rudy guilliani who is against it. >> yes, guilliani said, we're getting into territory where if anything comes out it will be viewed at meddling in the elections. i'm not sure if that's why he is dialing up his rhetoric. i thufrpg ink we are seeing his anger towards the investigation.

it seems we are heading in a direction thai don't know how much higher the rhetoric can get turned up but we haven't hit the limit yet. >> let me ask you quickly, what is your take on the john dean response to the way he said, it is one thing for mcgahn to have told the president or him be aware he is meeting with the special counsel, but the reference i told the special prosecutor touring the watergate investigation the truth and he didn't think i would tell him the truth. >> right, exactly. this was part of our axios report last night. so he said basically, they may think that mcgahn is going to go in there and say exactly what they would like him to say, but once he gets in the room he's going to give them timelines. he's going to give them information that is part of the overall puzzle that mueller is trying to put together. once he's, you know, in with mueller and out of his office in the white house, you know, you can't control what he's going to say. >> yeah, indeed. a very different space there. dave lawler live in d.c. for us. thanks, dave. >> thank you. the doj is looking into a

long-time republican fundraiser using his political influence in exchange for money from foreign governments. according to a "washington post" report, the former rnc deputy finance chairman is being investigated for using his sphere to peddle government information and favors to foreign officials. three people familiar with the probe tell "the post" the deals were in exchange for tens of millions of dollars. two sources say prosecutors are looking at a plan brodie developed to extradite a chinese dissident to his own country, a move at the request of chinese president xi jinping. he also sought 75 million from an official for dropping a probe into a development fund run by their government. his role in the trump administration piqued the interest of spushl counsel mueller's team who asked one

witness about broidy. >> the jury attempts for a third day to try to reach a ver. the jury will return to alexandria, virginia court as they weigh the 18 counts of tax evasion, bank fraud and hiding foreign bank accounts. before departing the white house friday president trump spoke about manafort's trial, expressing support for him, a move which manafort's lawyers actually welcomed. >> will you pardon paul manafort -- >> i don't talk about that now. >> can you put it to bed? >> i think the whole manafort trial is very sad. when you look at what is going on there, i think it is a very sad day for our country. he work for me for a very short period of time, but you know what? he happens to be a very good person, and think it is very sad what they've done to paul manafort. >> any comment?

>> really appreciates the support of president trump. >> following the president's comments, democratic chris murphy of connecticut warned of the consequences of a pardon of manafort by the president. he tweeted, so i generally choose not to hang on every twist of the mueller investigation, but if trump pardons manafort, after maybe having promised a pardon to get him not to cooperate, we're in a bana banana republic. we just are. robert mueller's team is recommending a six month sentence for george papadopolous who pleaded guilty to a single charge. in court filing, they argued that papadopolous didn't provide assistance to mueller's probe. they say papadopolous's initial lies obstructed the fbi's investigation. they added much of the information only came after he was confronted with documents including his own e-mails and text messages obtained through

search warrants and subpoenas after the fbi interviewed him. in the filing, they said he never signed a form of prosecution agreement and no promise was made to recommend a lenient sentence. he is scheduled to be sentenced on september 7. joining me onset is legal analyst danny sevallos. good to have you with us. let's talk about the manafort trial, deliberations going on for a third day. is it surprising deliberations are taking this long? >> no, this is not a murder case where it is a simple fact of did professor plum hit so-and-so with a pipe in the library. this is a complicated case involving criminal statutes most lawyers don't normally deal with. the federal government brings a tiny fraction of these cases every year compared to the other cases it brings. this is not just something tax perjury, bank fraud. these are not -- >> they're complex issues.

>> yes, these are not easy issues for jurors to grasp and they've been given a ton of documents. already the judge has said, i can't keep telling you what the law is, just go back to your notes, go back to documents and figure it out. >> when we talk about murder cases, the longer a jury deliberates the more defense attorneys think it favors them. does the same logic apply in a case like this? is there a way to read the longer deliberations? >> it never, never buy too much into reading. i have been burned way too many times by reading into the tiny minuta how long they're out. it could be a hold out, but you just don't know. in a case like this, i would caution against reading into a long deliberation period because they may simply be trying to understand the words on the paper in front of them. the vast majority of us don't understand the tax code. even understanding this could be

more complicated, especially given the pressure that they know that they're under. >> so given what he is possibly facing, what is the sentencing guideline? how much jail time could he possibly face if, in fact, he is found guilty? >> i will give you a first number but it is the statutory max, what we call the stat max. 305 years. >> wow. >> it is ridiculous. you take it by adding up all of the counts and the maximum for every count. it would never happen. the sentencing guidelines are tougher to figure out. it gives you a range of months. the hardest part about manafort if he is convicted is figuring out what is the loss, how much loss was suffered? there aren't traditional victims in this case. the victims are essentially banks but the government probably will go for millions of dollars. as a con seshtive estimate he may be looking at 100 to 200 months under the guidelines. even then in cases like this he has a good shot at what we call

below-guidelines sentence. he could still make a solid pitch for a below guidelines sentence but even then he would be looking at minimum, say, five years, something like that. >> let's switch quickly to george papadopolous. what do you make of the news of mueller recommending he spend up to six months in prison? >> it is not that significant because that would have been the guidelines range anyway given he has no prior criminal history and he only pleaded guilty to section 1001. he is placed in the zero to six-month category. i think that tells us had he cooperated more and given what the government considers substantial assistance for a 5k1 motion, the government might have recommended a probation-only sentence. it is interesting to note even though he didn't substantially cooperate it at any time change his sentencing guidelines range and the government is not pushing for anything more than essentially saying, hey, this guy got a month, he gave us more

information. papadopolous was less helpful so let's assume maybe a little more than a month. that's what they're saying without saying it. >> danny cevallos, i appreciate your breaking it down for us. sharpest legal mind so early in the morning. >> that's it. i'm the only one away. >> thanks, man. gop members of the senate mia, believe it or not. the stern warning for republicans over their decision to miss work and the problems that move may create. plus, bill karins is back with us with another check on your weather forecast. stay with us.

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urged mcconnell to cancel the recess in may. mcconnell was quick to criticize his colleagues for skipping in a private meeting thursday. he warned it would be difficult to set up votes if so many republican colleagues continued to miss work. with the senate gop head countdown from last week, democrats held majority of the votes in the chamber this week. >> let's get a check on your weather with nbc meteorologist bill karins. bill, it is feeling koomer today. i'm not going to lie, i like it. >> everyone wanted a break, especially from the humidity and we have gotten it. raleigh was nailed by four inches of rain. all of the levels are going down in the city now, so hopefully the morning commute won't have too many delays from the downpour. the unseasonably cold weather moved in to the northern plains. 50s and 60s for highs in areas of montana. that's where it starts, and then it moves down from there. temperatures only 75 in

minneapolis. even kansas city only at 73, about 14 degrees below average. chicago stays 79, not too bad. that's kind of the warm side of the storm. as we go into tuesday, that cooler air and the clouds and rain will cool off areas like pittsburgh, only 78. new york city, 80. boston, 73, about six degrees below normal. a few spots will be kind of chill lich chilly. heading to the end of the week, seasonable. d.c. into the 80s. friday, 82 degrees. raleigh looking nice in the mid 80s. chicago, cleveland, everyone. it is a little early taste, an early preview of fall. now, this morning we are dealing with bald weather as far as rain and thunderstorms. look at the light inning strikes in central and southern portions of illinois. in areas north of des moines from ames back towards sioux falls and sioux city. by the time we get to wednesday,

it will be heading through new england and exiting on wednesday. it may start off wet in areas on the east coast and getting better. as far as the end of the week, i did promise nice weather. looks like the east coast and northeast should have a perfect thursday and friday, just dodging showers and storms in florida. looks like a nice reward compared to the heat and humidity for the last month. this is a nice transition towards the end of august. >> as i said, we'll take it. also, you're not allowed to use the word fall or cold before halloween. >> until halloween? >> yes. >> no frost on the pumpkin? >> don't use it in your forecast, officially stated. >> thanks, bill. still ahead, a multi-million dollar purchase by pepsi as the company moves away from sugary drinks. u.s. china trade talks, a preview of what may be in negotiations straight ahead. if you have psoriasis, ... little things can be a big deal. of what may be in negotiations

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welcome back. let's turn to business beverage and snack giant pepsi announced to get away from sugary soft drinks. good morning. >> good morning, louis. that's the big news this morning. pepsi is acquiring sodastream for $3.2 billion. a 30% premium, 32% premium to where sodastream shares were

trading. it's up 10% already this morning. the israeli-based company is known for making carbonated drinks in the carbonated machines and making a strong push into sparkling water which is a very fast growing segment of the market and clearly a focus for pepsi in looking for this acquisition. but generally speaking, it fits into the picture of pepsi's move away from sugary drinks to healthier options and low-calory drinks with less artificial sweeteners. part of the bigger picture plan. but elsewhere in markets today, we've seen a bit of a boost in asian equities on potential hopes of a de-escalation of trade discussions and trade tensions between the u.s. and china. mid-level negotiators will be meeting in washington this week. a nine-member delegation from beijing led by the commerce director. this is the first time they'll

hold those meetings up to $50 billion. let's not forget there's a hearing this week about a potential extra $200 billion. interesting timing. back to you guys. >> great to have you with us. coming up, axios's mike allen has a look at this morning's one big thing. coming up on "morning joe," the truth apparently is not the truth according to rudy giuliani. the latest defense on president trump's attorney when it comes to the russia probe as he disputes the special counsel's investigation and quite frankly the reality. and don mcgahn cooperating with robert mueller's team. and leaving the president's inner circle in the dark about that. "morning joe" just moments away.

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♪ hi, welcome back, everyone. joining us from washington, d.c. with a look at axios am, the co-founder of axios, mike allen. what is the one big thing for us? >> happy monday and the axios

one big thing is fight club, the new debate rules. so, for the age of trump, a new play book for how democratic candidates can survive in debates. ron klain, who has been debate coach going back to president bill clinton in 1982, every democratic debate since then, he's done an occasional series of survival guides for candidates and has updated it for the trump era. so how to deal with a trump wanna be, how to deal with a trumpian tantrum. how to deal with realtime fact checking and some of the advice that he has here is to keep a smile because more the other candidate moves into tantrum mode the better you'll look. >> mike, i don't know if you saw the movie, the first rule of fight club is don't talk about fight club. you totally blew that. let me ask you this quickly, should we expect in the age of trump debates, political

debates, official debates, are they going to feature a more n confrontational style when they're on stage? >> that's a great point. another big way the debates have changed that ron klain pointed out to me in explaining why he's had to re-write the rules of debate after decades of the old style is that now debates are very much aimed at your own people, showing your own supporters that you're willing to fight for what you believe in. where as for the last couple decades that we covered politics, debates were more about reaching those undecided voters who are now becoming kind of mythical unicorns. one other point that ron klain makes about how to deal with your opponent is to listen. the point he makes if they're swinging wildly, that leaves their body open for a return punch. >> yeah. it will be interesting to watch the presidential debates the next time around. let me ask you about some new

reporting that you guys have about the president's habit of blurting private matters out in the public. what are your sources telling you about that? >> yeah. so this is a great jonathan twine first sneak peek. we realize as we talk to advisers they will tell you that if the president is saying something behind the scenes, get ready for him to say it out loud. a great example of that was last week in "the wall street journal" article after the white house had given reasons for why the security clearance of john brennan, the former cia director had been revoked. the president goes into an interview with the "wall street journal" about tariffs, by the way, and blurts out that he didn't like what john brennan had been saying about russia. this was similar to the lester holt interview when he was asking why he had fired james comey. the administration's line had

been it was because of his handling of the hillary clinton case. the president sits down with lester holt, your colleague lester prepared all these different ways to try to get trump to say that it was about russia. he prepped. they had all kinds of ways to go. the president sits down and just says it, he just blurts it out. so the staff is telling us that if he's saying behind the scenes, figure out a way for him to say it to do minimal damage. >> the twitter factor and what he may say on twitter at any point. mike allen, thank you. you can sign up for the newsletter by going to signupaxios.com. "morning joe," everyone, starts right now. sean spicer our press secretary gave alternative facts to that. >> in a situation like this, you have over time facts develop. >> somebody's version of the truth, not the truth. truth isn't truth. >> alternative facts. >> facts develop.

>> truth isn't truth. >> facts develop. >> truth isn't truth. >> facts develop. >> well, i guess you have to add that one to the montage from earlier this month. rudy giuliani udders one of the -- i guess more baffling, more memorable lines in recent political memory. meanwhile, white house counsel don mcgahn reportedly opening up to bob mueller after fearing that he was being set up by the president to take the fall. we're going to be talking to the one of the reporters who broke that story and also explain who president trump is now calling a rat. plus, we're joined by three former top intel officials who accuse the white house of politicizing national security. after, of course, stripping john brennan of his security clearance. good morning, and welcome to "morning joe." it's monday, august the 20th. with us we have pulitzer prize winning historian and author of the best seller