good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. attorney michael cohen has sworn under oath that donald trump told him to pay off born star stormy daniels for the purpose of influencing the 2016 election. this puts donald trump himself at the heart of a crime. the news of cohen's testimony is part of a double barrel of bad news for the president today. late today came word that both trump's top former campaign trail and his personal lawyer fixer now stand guilty of federal charges. paul manafort was convicted of eight charges including filing false income tax returns and another foreign bank fraud charge.

michael cohen pled guilty also on eight counts today. he faces up to five years in jail. deputy u.s. attorney had this to say about the cohen case. >> these are serious charges and reflect a pattern of lies and dishonesty over a period of time. we are a nation of laws and the essence of this case is about is justice and that is an equal playing field for all persons in the eyes of the law and that is a lesson that mr. cohen learned today. >> it is a very bad day for the president. at this hour, he is holding a rally in west virginia. if he says anything, we will go live. michael cohen told the judge that he made hush money payments of two women as a direction of trump. did it knowingly at the campaign

event. the white house has denied the allegations. but according to the "new york times," adviser to president trump viewed the investigation into cohen as more dangerous to the presidency than even the special counsel's investigation. for more, i am joined by ken vogel, kitty fang, tom winner who is at the courthouse. and omarosa manigault newman. omarosa, i have been wanting you on tonight because you have been very close to these men. sworn under oath the president was a cocriminal with him in terms of using men to shut up women. a campaign expense violated and concealed it. and now come out that it was done purposely as a concealed matter to help the campaign. this is a crime. what is your reaction today? >> well, i think for donald

trump he should be very concerned today because michael cohen has made a commitment that he is going to look out for himself and his family over his extreme to donald trump. we all knew this was going to be used as a hush money payment. >> you knew at the time? >> oh, we knew. >> the 150 it mcdoingal, and 130 to stormy daniels. a lot of money. taken effectively to get him elected. >> a lot of donors. expecting it would go towards the victory. but instead it was going to shut these women up and that is illegal. >> how is this going to sell among kellyanne and the white house. did they believe cohen or the president. >> kellyanne believes to alternative facts. and in trump world, that's what

goes. the truth is relative. the reality today is that the hammer came down both on donald trump with cohen and manafort. >> mr. cohen faced thousands of years in prison. going away for hard time for five years, why would you take that as the best deal you can get unless you face horrendously longer time. >> when the judge read to him and asked him as part of this process, do you know that you can't run for office, or do you know you can't vote again. his voice wavered, the gravity of what was happening today hit him. the gravity of as the judge explained it, if he would sentence him to the maximum, consecutive term, he faced up to

65 years in prison. a tremendous amount of jail time if he did not plead guilty to these crimes. so i think michael cohen was looking at serious time here. these are the crimes that he pled guilty to. perhaps other crimes that may have been on the fringe that could have been included in indictment. he may have been on the hook for more trouble than what we were able to find out in court today. >> let's get into the heart of this thing regarding the president of the united states. this interpretation here, we listening now to this man under oath. saying under oath, that the president of the united states paid the money to the two women. he has to know that that was the motive of the president.

not to pay off women so his marriage would be in tact. but to get himself elected. that is an amazingly particular charge that gets to the heart of the president's lack of credibility. >> i am thrilled that you honed into that specific part of it. this is not just a pay off. it has to do with the campaign itself. when you have something like this, could michael cohen perhaps testify against the president of the united states. who knows and we may never know. one thing that under lies testimony and makes michael cohen potentially credible here, is that we are talking about payments which means there are transactions which means there are records and documentation. not own are the things that michael cohen allocate to are damning. but these are banking allegations, things that have

tong with payment. so i think these particular accounts based on the evidence. >> ken, to that point, we know that the president compensated him for the second 130. somehow the money would pour through as a draw. but the second time the president paid the bill. >> and that is where you get the coordination. two counts here. the other is a corporate contribution. also excessive, also illegal. the one-2 punch there. we can expect the trump folks to come after that and say no, he misunderstood that or he is

mischaracterizing that. a lot of it will come down to his credibility. why this was done to further a federal campaign. >> let's go back to katey, thanks for joining us. for most of us who drew up with watergate. co-conspirator. what do you make of it in this case. the president of the united states was one of the people who was forking over the money to keep the woman quiet as part of a concealing effort in violation of federal laws and environments. >> let's be clear. there was no direct identification of donald trump today during the plea and the plea agreement. but let's be honest. we know it is trump. trump is an unnamed co-conspirator right now in the southern district of new york. money often costs too much.

but today was a costly day. trump is directly like the center of the spokes of all of this wheel of implication of all of these people, manafort and michael cohen. so we are looking at donald trump now and we want to know what is out there in terms of evidence. remember, this system worked, chris. the raids on cohen's home and office worked. the raids produced evidence. after the system worked for the benefit of the government but still protecting michael cohen. so now we know there is evidence that the southern district has but can the president be indicted. isn't that the ultimate question. >> can they bring a rico charge? is. >> here is the deal. the president sitting president of the united states doj guidelines say you shouldn't and won't be indicting the president of the united states. doesn't mean he can't be indicted after he sits in

office. congress can impeach the president. why would a grand jury sitting there indict a president. talk about indictment in the court of public opinion, you can't get any more close. >> i asked omarosa come on tonight because i have known her for years and you have a stash of e-mails and other forms of documentation. let's take a look at this video that shows michael cohen boarding trump's plane in september of 2016. let's watch. >> my number one star. >> you are on my video, just so you know. now i've got to stop you.

michael, a bye. >> this is september of 2016, in the midst of these negotiations. what does it tell you. >> the first thing that the president is going to say is that michael cohen had nothing to do with the campaign, he was just a coffee boy, just involved. first of all, to show you that he was in fact involved with the campaign. he organized this particular trip to cleveland. he spoke at this event. and as you can see, horsing around after on the plane and he sat and met with the president during that trip. he was very involved and directing some of the things that were happening and impacting some of the decisions that the president made. >> give me a preview of coming attractions. has it been accurately reported that you have all kinds of things in terms of evidence.

>> that was the first video that i shared and one, i shared because people are demonizing michael cohen. and donald trump -- >> do you know the president told him to lie for the purpose of paying off those women. >> he certainly asked him to protect donald trump, to protect him from his wife and the country and help him get elected. >> did he know about the meeting in june with the meeting with the russians? >> i suspect. >> how do you know? >> you know that to be a fact. >> didn't hide his affinity for russians and it is leudicrous fr people to say we didn't hear about his desire to have a relationship. >> trying to get dirt from the russian government. >> there was a time when we found out about these e-mails, and there is a debate about when

donald trump found out about them. >> you mean the hacking of the dnc? >> i have been cooperating with them. >> have they asked you about, have mueller's people ask you about this thing. >> they asked me a wide range of question. and i will be very careful. today changed everything. this is the beginning of the end for donald trump. >> why? >> because he know that the person who knows everything about him, about his relationships with these women and others that people may not know about are going to come to light. >> let me go to ken on this thing. and then go around the room here, because i think this guy knows a lot. and i get the feeling that his charges are light. he is a felony now, he can't vote. he can't run for office. but michael cohen knows a lot. and if omarosa is backing this up and everybody else, if this

guy was on the inside, isn't he trump's worst nightmare. especially with all the documents they grabbed. >> he has visibility into a wide range. and we are not just talking about the payoffs of the women. we are talking about throughout the campaign as omarosa documented on this video. he was in there. and we are talking about his business, trump's business dealings before that. we know that he traveled the world. and he rejects the claim that he was in prague meeting with voces. but we know he was all over the world. we are seeing the tip of the iceberg. he worked with elliott brody who has been the subject of interest.

>> cut the deal with them, they have got them in their tentacles. how do they feed him now to provide information on russia and everything else in this pandora's box over to mueller? >> any time that you cut a deal with the government, you can cooperate in any time with them and any information you share federally, you know, it is all one system. so if he has told them one certain thing that may be helpful to special counsel mueller, that is something that they can share back and forth. as far as information finding its way back to the special counsel, that's not going to be a problem. >> katie, last question do you. he was a tough guy, he was basically a tough guy for trump. in the good old days. is he in control of the u.s.

attorneys. does he have to basically talk when they tell him to talk or else he faces real trouble, your thoughts. >> he is still in the driver seat because he has valuable information. the more you cooperate, the more sentence is going to be lightened. more information on a variety of different topics. >> if everybody knew about this situation, are they all liable? katie, how many people knew about this? the payment, the deal, to hush them up so he can get through the election. >> you also have keith davidson, there is more people including keith davidson that would implicate donald trump as well. >> and campaign finance law speak to who had liability in this case. the candidate in this case,

cohen is signaling out the candidate, but a treasurer of a campaign also would have liability for that. >> i was on the receiving end of one of these hush deals where lara trump called me and offer me a job. so i could keep quiet. so they are in the business of trying to silence people and using campaign dollars to do that which is illegal. thank you omarosa, ken vogel, katie fang. up next, double barrel story, paul manafort going down for eight counts. still got to go to d.c. for another round of trials. will the president give this guy

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welcome back to "hardball." paul manafort has been found guilty on eight counts. five counts of tax fraud, the judge declared a mistrial in the remaining ten counts. it would have been 18 when the jury declared they couldn't reach a consensus on the other accounts. president trump had this to say. >> paul manafort is a good man. he was with ronald reagan. and a lot of different people over the years. i feel sad about that. it is a very sad thing that happened. this has nothing to do with

russian collusion. this started as russian collusion. this has nothing to do. this is a witch hunt and it is a disgrace. nothing to do what they started out. looking for russians involved in our campaign. there were none. >> the charges stemmed with manafort's work over seas where manafort was paid $60 million over 12 years but failed to properly pay taxes. this is the first big test for mueller's special investigation in the meddling. even though the charges against manafort pre dates his time on the campaign. >> joined by ken littdill laini. what do you think the trial means today and how do you think that jury got through where they

got through. ken. >> this jury meticulously went through the evidence. one is that they did not believe rick gates, because the conspiracy counts of bank fraud where gates was key, they could not come to an agreement. the tax evasion was clear. on the foreign bank charges, they convicted him on only one potential, the evidence was strong there. but they went through count by count and they found some evidence more persuasive than other evidence. and they don't appear to have been affected by any outside noise. in terms of what it means for manafort, he is looking at seven to nine years in prison. and the judge can take into account all the charges even the

charges he wasn't convicted of. a hefty prison sentence. does he pack it in, cut a deal or keep fighting? and this defense must be costing him enormous sums of money. the next shoe to drop is looking at whether paul manafort decides to cut a deal. >> so right now, chris, this is a lose-lose for paul manafort. convicted of only eight of the 18 charges. but the other ten charges, the government could re-try those if chose to. the government could use that conduct as what we call relevant conduct and that can actually enhance his sentence. all we have to prove at a sentencing hearing regarding relative conduct that it is more likely than not that he committed those acts. >> is that fair to say if

someone gets a hung jury and not convicted of that that is held against him even though there is no proof. >> fair or unfair, those are the rules. would be exposed to if convicted of those accounts. he does get a sentencing if prosecutors can prove by a preponderance of the evidence. manafort is that rare defendant looking at a hat trick. mueller, once he decides to return the conspiracy indictment, manafort will be roll rolled into this as well. >> let me go to carolyn on this. he doesn't show much emotion. he is a tough guy. he is 69. facing a decade in prison. the judge can throw the book at

him and try to win conviction on those. maybe a liberal jury, philly is a tough down. you don't know what you are going it get on a jury. maybe liberals. who knows and there is a hell of a lot of documentation being thrown at him in the next trial. if he skated through this baby with help on the jury, he may not be as lucky next time. he may face the rest of his life prison. >> absolutely. taking a long hard look at himself in the mirror today. remember, rick gates got on the stand and said we both had this option. i chose a different option than manafort. so the idea being he refused to cooperate with prosecutors. to the extent that prosecutors were planning on using rick

gates in the second trial coming up. he didn't play well to the jury. paul manafort has been in pretrial incarceration prior to the next trial coming up. so he has gotten a taste of what prison life is like. if i had to guess, i would say say -- >> i made a mistake, it is the d.c. court. watergate, those guys did not go well going to d.c. court. ken, the difference between a north virginia court, do you have any sense at all of the jury and who they are? >> i think the jury pool is going to be even more predisposed to be hostile to a republican political. and this judge. this manafort defense team is

afra afraid of the d.c. judge. judge ellis was seen as favorable. you are not going to see that in the d.c. judge. paul manafort showed no emotion as the verdict was read. is donald trump going to pardon manafort. speckle of two trials. if donald trump was willing to pardon sheriff arpaio. >> it is harder to punish, to pardon someone when you benefit. when you are pardoning a guy who can testify against you, everyone is going to say you are jerry ford at best.

>> a pardon can equal obstruction of justice. some people can say he has unfetterred unlimited pardon power. yes he does, but once he exercises it. you pardon that same person because that person's relative gave you a million dollars, that is corrupt. >> i didn't know there was a limit on the pardon power. >> there is an unlimited power, but once you do, we are not trying to limit the power, but looking behind it. if intent is corrupt. >> the person still gets pardoned. >> exactly. >> thoughts of that carolyn. everyone is thinking pardon. like he cares about this guy. he probably doesn't care at all about mr. cohen at this point to

say the least. >> if you look at again the groundwork that trump has made. desouza didn't argue that he didn't commit the crime. that is really the idea that trump is ginning up here in this witch hunt narrative. he is going to say of course this had nothing to do with the russian collusion and therefore he was treated unfairly and the idea of the corrupt intent, it is the exact idea we have been talking about with the firing of james comey, was that obstruction of justice. he is the president of the united states and he has the power. what was the underlying motivation. >> and he may be saving the pardon's for his kids, i'm saying. ken, thank you, as always great

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the existential threats facing president trump are closing in in every direction. michael cohen has pleaded guilty admitting that he violated campaign finance law and fingered the president as a co-condition sp-- co-conspirato. it all happened today. neither is cooperating with federal prosecutors, well, they are. don mcgahn already has. and provided 30 hours of testimony mcgahn news may have -- a lot of what trump is doing is based on the fact that mueller is going after don jr.

they are squeezing him right now. all happening at once for now. joined by susan page. bret stevens, vivian solama. and we have a heavy weight gang. bret, you just tweeted this out in the modern means of communication, i have been skeptical of the wisdom and merit of impeachment. the president is clearly guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors. he should resign his office or be impeached and removed from office. you want to elaborate on that? >> i think it is difficult to reach any other conclusion, you know, for a long time, i have wondered whether the evidence of conspiracy between the trump campaign and russia would be so

clear, so black letter as it were that it could rise politically to the level of impeachment and it could convince a critical mass of republican lawmakers to impeach and then of course convict the president. but i think the cohen story is in a different league all together. this is a clear black letter violation of campaign finance laws. we have powerful evidence that the president was aware of these payments and that later as president, he suppressed information about the payments until the "wall street journal" to its credit broke the stormy daniels story earlier this year. now, you can make an argument that these campaign finance laws are vague or badly worded, but then again, they were used against for the prosecution of a former vice presidential nominee and senator john edwards in a

strikingly similar case. i think republicans ought to be asking themselves in a serious way if they believe in the rule of law and the separation of powers which i remember are core principles they ought to be considering impeachment as a mechanism to remove an unfit president who is committed or seems to have committed criminal acts. >> of course we didn't get a conviction in the john edwards case. she said she didn't think it was for a campaign purpose but clearly a lot of people in the jury did. let me ask you about the interpretation here, did you find convincing, apparently you did, the sworn testimony that is going to be forth coming from michael cohen that the president not only approved the payment of the 150 to miss mcdougal and the 130 to stormy daniels.

that is where it gets into the law and the criminality. >> the president is known for stiffing all sorts of people. the fact that this payment took place so close to the election, along with the fact that we have a recording which seems to indicate president's knowledge that he was committing a criminal act therefore the payment in cash and the elaborate methods to disguise the payment all suggest to me criminal intent. in the event of impeachment, the standards here are political. ultimately the jury is the senate. we are not talking about a case that would stand or fall before a jury. but the weight of evidence seems clearly to suggest that the president knew exactly what he was doing. it is worth remembering that back in 2000, bush nearly lost the election on the account of a dui. this is essentially similar

behavior. >> this may hit you in the solar pl plexus. act on the evidence, do you have confidence that the republican party, the grand old party will look at evidence like this and consider or do what they have been doing all along, this goose stepping to trump. it is awful. they have been doing it. whatever he says they accept it as an order. will they change from taking orders from trump. your thoughts? >> i doubt it? where is our howard baker to go to the president. >> you told me a desultry notion that it won't do any good. lots more with you.

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welcome back to "hardball." lock her up became a common reframe at a dig at hillary clinton. returning to the familiar chant. let's watch. >> called hillary, compassionate, tough. can you actually believe that?

>> well it turns out that the trump team that has accumulated a rap sheet on its own. in less than two years in office, five people on the team have been found guilty on various charges. his former national security advisor michael flynn, george papadopoulos, rick gates. is this like the titanic where only so many compartments can flood. how many convictions can trump take? >> with manafort being convicted and cohen pleading guilty, there is a legal system that is immune to legal spin and it is proceeding. >> you mean evidence and juries. >> evidence, juries, facts,

documents, cooperating witnesses. and this was of course the special counsel's first prosecution in court. and this is not going to be his last. so i think your question is a good one >> i asked the wrong question, do they care if he tells the truth or not? >> as far as supporters, there isn't a lot of appetite once we leave d.c. >> they believe he didn't have the affair with these women and pay them off? come on. >> even if they believe it, his core supporters do not care as long as he is helping the economy grow and as long as he is creating jobs. that is all things people care about when it comes to trump. >> when they say get her, put her in jail and covered it up. >> there is not a lot of logic

behind it when you have clear evidence of certain issues that are taking place. >> again, they do not judge trump as they judge humanity. >> a lot of times you are willing to overlook a lot of things. >> as a wise man once said, truth isn't truth. and we may look at this and say this is damning, but we were watching in the green room this rally, and not only were they chanting lock her up, they were also chanting drain the swamp. so irony is dead. >> they have radios, they have siri sirius fm. >> i think bret is right on impeachment. but zero chance that they are going, the republicans in the congress are going to do this until and unless.

>> i know a lot of people covered for bill clinton. but the idea of walking along in goose step, marching, marching, nothing matters other than their loyalty to this guy. >> i don't think president trump's core supporters didn't think he had the affairs, but they are going to look at it, the economy is strong. >> do they get it? >> i don't think that they don't believe he did those things but they discount it. >> duncan hunter, the second member to endorse donald trump were indicted for misusing $250,000 of campaign money. chris collins was indicted two weeks ago for insider material. what is it about the early

people, the early money people for trump? >> duncan hunter's case, if you are going to fly your pet rabbit across the country is do not do it with campaign money. you know, you keep, you want to say, the wheels have fallen off the bus, but i am not sure the wheels were entirely on the bus. but it seems like there is nothing imaginable that could happen. >> president trump is under attack from all sides. even he must be worrying about michael cohen. this guy knows everything. we just saw him on the plane. he was an insider all the way on russia and everything. you're watching "hardball." >> and i have had so many people, i was backstage --

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>> the biggest is michael cohen. his fixer. >> definitely michael cohen and you can tell when president trump got off the plane in virginia. very keen in addressing the manafort. because he feels it is separate from him. avoided questions on cohen. it is making him nervous. >> i don't think it is the beginning of the end, but maybe the end of the beginning. no longer can you say rigged witch hunt. they have five witches caught with broomsticks in their hand. >> flying. >> you are right on the front page. what does this mark in terms of the investigation of donald trump. >> this is a big day. this is a day as you say, you can't call it a witch hunt or that it is rigged.

and it is not the end of this. >> this is the beginning of a series of convictions that i think we are going to see. >> justice grinds slowly. when we return let me finish with trump watch. i think it is a big one. you're watching "hardball." countries that we traveled- "what is your nationality?" and i would always answer, "hispanic." so, when i got my ancestrydna results it was a shocker!

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trump watch tuesday

august 21st, 2018, 15 years ago russian tanks in check slovakia. another trusted aide, his lawyer fixer said he paid out hundreds of thousands of dollars at the direction of then candidate trump for the specific purpose of keeping up his candidate's image on election eve. a felony charge confessed to by one of the defendants. i am wondering as many are whether this horrendous reality is what the president and his henchmen have been piling up sandbags for weeks now. will the levees hold?

his staff, his sycophant hold off against the rising wave of awful truth beginning to crest over the high barriers of denials and self-deception. that is "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts now. >> i feel badly for paul manafort. had nothing to do with russian collusion. we continue the witch hunt. >> michael cohen guilty. >> how are you? >> paul manafort, guilty. >> mr. manafort is disappoints. >> on eight felony counts each. >> i did nothing wrong. you have to understand. >> as michael cohen claims trump directed his hush money crime. >> did you know about