general. i would recommend you check it out. that's "all in" for this evening. good evening, rachel. >> how was your day? >> i don't know what happened. i am kind of putting my jaw back up. >> i felt like at a certain point today, i was like honestly inclined toward physically getting under my desk and going like this and waiting until stuff stopped happening so could i crawl out. >> the moment for me was the duncan hunter indictment. come on. is someone playing a joke? the second member of congress got indicted today, too? >> honestly. at my third staff meeting of the day today, we usually only have one but we had to keep reconvening. congressman just indicted? i said jokes like that aren't funny. >> i will say that the luckiest man in the news stay congressman

duncan hunter. congressman duncan hunter from san diego really was indied today by federal prosecutors, along with his wife. we thought it was a joke when it first crossed the news wires today. like one more thing could happen today. but duncan hunter, sitting congressman, was indicted today along with his wife for campaign finance violations, wire fraud, falsifying records and conspiracy. that makes him oddly the luckiest man in the news today. if you're ever going to get indicted, how about today? right? a sitting member of congress who is running for re-election this year, getting indicted along with his wife and charged with multiple felonies? that's usually a big show stopper of a story. today, that's, i mean, it is a story. these were the two first sit go members of congress to endorse donald j. trump for president in

2016. on the left, congressman chris collins who was indicted on felony charges less than two weeks ago. he was the first to endorse donald trump for president. and then on the right side, that's congressman duncan hunter. he was the second sitting member of do know support donald trump for president and now today he too has been indicted on multiple felony charges. who was third? as i say, congressman duncan hunter probably considers himself lucky today. if you're going to get indicted, today was probably a pretty good day. because the news of his indictment arrived on a day like no other. in this remarkable scandal ridden candidacy. we actually called michael beschloss to ask if there's anything like this. has there ever been a single day in the news for any u.s. president that held similar

explosive political force to the criminal court news that president trump got today with his campaign chairman being found guilty on eight felony counts. eight felony counts which should put him away on prison. and at the same time, on basically exactly the same moment, his long time personal lawyer and long time employee at his business also pleading guilty to eight felony counts which should put him away for years in prison. in the case of the president's long time personal lawyer, his deal with prosecutors today not only included his own guilty pleas, it included detailed descriptions and evidence of the president's own participation, the president in fact directing felony criminal behavior. we called michael beschloss today. has any u.s. president ever gone through anything quite like this when it comes to the criminal law? michael beschloss today told us, the only rough equivalent he can

come one in u.s. history would be march 1st, 1974. that produced this headline the next day. march 1st, 1974, was the day a grand jury indicted richard nixon's campaign manage here he had named attorney general and the president's top two aides in the white house and a bunch of other white house nixon staffers. the critical catastrophe for nixon that day, march 1st, 1974, is that nixon himself was named as an unindicted co-conspirator by the grand jury in that criminal behavior. and those findings of criminal activity by president nixon, those were ultimately handed over to congress for them on impeach him. tonight president trump is not facing impeachment. he is doing a rally in west virginia. but his campaign chairman and his long time personal lawyer are both convicted felons, as of tonight. and there is tremendous interest

in the fate and impending prison time for both of these men. but the president's own first base state that a front burner issue tonight. let's start with manafort. on manafort, you know by now the basics. manafort was convicted on eight felony counts. the jury in the manafort case was not able to reach a verdict on the other ten felony counts that manafort was facing. they didn't find him not guilty on those other ten charges. they couldn't come the a decision. that gives the prosecution and the defense both some options here. on the counts where the jury didn't reach a verdict, there was a mistrial for those ten counts is that that means prosecutors could decide to try part paul manafort on those ten counts. prosecutors have the choice. on the other hand, there are the eight counts, the eight felony charges where the jurors did reach a verdict. on all eight charges they found

him guilty. on those eight guilty verdicts, the defense could appeal. so we'll get more expert advice on this. it turned out the whole story about the federal savings bank in chicago worked out and how the jury viewed paul manafort basically offering trump administration jobs to the ceo of that bank in exchange for him offering manafort millions of dollars in loans, the way the jury saw that turns out to be fascinating. there are three things on watch when it comes to manafort now. specifically, potentially the president's own fate as it relates to paul manafort. three things to watch. the first two are logistical. number one, will manafort's defense team feel eight felony choornlgs which he was found guilty? also, will the government try on charge manafort again to the other ten felonies on which there was no verdict?

so logistics. is this trial over? are these 18 counts settled? or will they continue to be litigated? that's one thing to watch. the second logistical thing to watch. after these convictions today on these eight felony charges, how much better or worse does manafort's fate look for his next felony trial which after all, starts in less than a month in federal court in d.c. this was manafort's trial in virginia. he is about to go on trial in less than a month in d.c. and tonight is the deadline for prosecutors to list that they are planning to use next month. we are expecting over the course of this evening, sometime tonight torsion get access to that evidence list. we're expecting that it will contain well over 1,000 individual pieces of evidence that prosecutors will use in their case against manafort next month. when we get evidence list tonight, presumably it will land

like an anvil on the manafort defense team. right? it will come just hours after the client was convicted on eight felony counts in a different federal court today. >> two things on watch. it will be fascinating to watch. the third thing on watch here when it comes to manafort. with these, the trump campaign manager is facing a maximum sentence of 80 years in prison. now, he won't get 80 years in prison. realistically, according to the sentencing guidelines, he is looking at real-time, maybe seven to nine years. and he is about to face another felony trial against the same special counsel's office who just got him could not voiktd eight felonies and that's coming up in less than a month. you see where this is going. the last thing to watch when it

comes the paul manafort, whether being convicted today while staring down evidence in the next trial best to face in d.c., whether any of this will change paul manafort's own calculus about whether or not he might want to help prosecutors now. a lot of others have flipped. not manafort. he has not cooperated with prosecutors at all. if he decided now to start cooperating, his future would look very different. presumably, right? depending on the deal he was able to cut. depending on what co-offer information about. depending on how valuable it might be to prosecutors and any other investigations they are pursuing. the years in prison that he is now looking at as of today for the felonies of which he was convicted today, those years conceivably in a deal with prosecutors, those deals could go away. as could the charges best to

face in his new trial next month. we're going on get some expert advice on this. whatever math paul manafort has done in his head about whether or not he wanted to flip and help prosecutors and any other work on any other cases, including cases potentially involving the president, that math might have changed today when the jury pronounced him guilty. so it is half of what is looming today. does paul manafort feel differently enough that he might be willing to talk? that's half of what is looming. and then there is the president's personal lawyer. the judge. let's begin then with an initial appearance. mr. cohen i am district judge william pauley. the purpose of this proceeding is to inform you of certain rights you have. to inform of, to decide under what conditions you should be released. first, you have the right to

remain silent. you are not required to make any statements. even if you have made any stalts to the authorities, you need not make any further statements. anything you say can be used against you. you have the right to be released conditionally or unconditionally pending trial unless i find there are no conditions that would reasonably assure your presence this court and the safety of the community. you have the right, sir, be to represent by counsel during all court proceedings including this one and during all questioning by authorities. if you cannot afford an attorney, i will appoint one. the government has offered information in this case. have you seen that information? the defendant, michael cohen. the judge, yes. have you read it? i have, sir. have you discussed with it your attorney? i have, sir. the judge, mr. cohen, do you understand, sir, that you are now under oath and if you answer any of my questions falsely, your false or untrue answers may later be used against knew another prosecution for perjury

or making a false statement? michael cohen, i do, your honor. the judge, very well. for the record, what is your full name? michael cohen says, michael dean cohen. the judge, and at this time, mr. cohen, you may be seated and i would ask that you pull the microphone close to you. the defendant, thank you, your honor. how old, sir? the defendant, in four days i'll be 52. the judge, how far did you go in school? >> law. are you able to read, write, speak and understand english? yes, your honor. are you now or have you recently been under the care of a doctor or psychiatrist? no, your honor. court, have you ever been treated or hospitalized for any mental illness or hospitalized for any addiction? >> no. have you seen any drugs, immediate single or pills or have you consumed any alcohol? yes, your honor. the judge, what have you taken or consumed, sir? >> last night at dinner aid

glass of glenlivet 12 on the rocks. the judge, all right. is it your custom to do that? no, your honor. the judge, all right. have you had anything since that time? no, ushs. is your mind clear today? yes. are you feeling all right? yes, sir. are you represented by counsel? i will. who are your attorneys? guy pet littlo and amy. do you have any doubt to your client's competence to plead at this time? i do not, yurns. your attorney has informed me that you wish to enter a plea of guilty. do you wish to enter a plea of guilty? defendant, yes, sir. the judge, have you had a full opportunity on discuss your case with your attorney and to discuss the consequences of a plea of guilty? yes, your honor. judge, are you satisfied with your attorneys, mr. petrillo in this matter? very much, sir. on the basis of mr. cohen's

responses to my questions and the observation of his demeanor this afternoon, i find that he is fully dpoenlt enter an informed plea at this time. warned that he will be prosecuted for perjury if he gives any false statements at this hearing today. they then go through it. there is a long back and forth at this point about cohen understanding the nature his plea deal and the charges against him and the clear mind with which he is pleading guilty. he pleads guilty to eight felony charges today. felony. at a evasion in five separate charges. making a false statement to a financial institution to get a loan that he shouldn't have otherwise gotten and then last two charges blew the proverbial lid off the place today. as they're going through all the charges, between judge and the attorneys and michael cohen, just saying yes, your honor, a lot as they're going through stuff. there comes this moment the today's hearing when the judge

asked michael cohen to explain in his own words the crimes he has committed and to which he is pleading guilty. the judge. mr. cohen, would you please tell me what you did in question, each of the crimes to which you are entering a plea of guilty? michael cohen, yes, your honor. may i stand? the judge. you may. the defendant, thank you, sir. michael cohen. i also just jotted down some notes so i can keep my dpoeks is address this court in proper fashion. as to counts one through five, i evaded paying substantial taxes on certain income i received that i knew was not reflected on the return and that i caused to be filed. i won't read all the details. but he says how he evaded charges. he lied by omission to a bank where he applied for a loan. we learned he used it to pay off stormy daniels. we'll have more only later. with you then we get to the part

that led to front pages like this. this is the front page of the "new york times." cohen pleads guilty implicating president. that's the front page of the "new york times." here's where that comes from in court today. ready? okay. michael cohen. thank you, your honor. as to count number seven, on or about the summer of 2016 in coordination with and at the direction of a candidate for federal office, i and the ceo of a media company, at the request of the candidate, worked together to keep an individual with information that would be harmful to the candidate and to the campaign from publicly disclosing this information. after a number of discussions, we eventually accomplished the goal by the media company entering into a contract with the individual under which she received compensation of $150,000. i participated in this conduct which on my part took place in manhattan for the principle purpose of influencing the election. the federal candidate in this

case is the president of the united states. the election is the mexielectio that made him president of the united states. and this is the president's attorney, saying under oath, that the president directed this illegal payoff during the campaign for the purposes of influencing the election. this count, number seven, is the karen mcdougal case. the woman who used to model for "playboy" magazine who said she had a long running affair with the president. michael cohen said in court today that the president directed him, michael cohen, and the ceo of a media company, which appears to be david pecker, the ceo of america media, the owner of "national enquirer," michael cohen said the president directed two of them to arrange a payment of $150,000 to karen mcdougal during the election. specifically for the purpose of influencing the election. now, that is something that has been reported in detail. that you have heard about over

months. that is now being charged as a felony. as an illegal corporate contribution to the president's campaign. one that, according to this court proceeding today, was directed by the president himself. now, michael cohen is needing guilty to his own role in that but he is directly implicating both the president of the united states and the executive david pecker in that same criminal act. so we'll have more on that in a second. here's the next part. your honor, as to count number eight, on or about october of 2016, the month before the election, in coordination with and at the direction of the same candidate, i arranged to make a payment to a second individual with information that would be harmful to the candidate and the campaign to keep the individual from disclosing the information.

to accomplish this i used a company that was under my control to make a pay. $130,000. the moneys i advanced were later repaid to me by the candidate. i participated in this conduct which on my part took place in manhattan for the principal purpose of influencing the election. the reason he is saying, i did this in manhattan is because he is being charged by federal prosecutors. that's establishing their jurisdiction to charge with these felonies. when he says he participated in this conduct for the principal purpose of this election, that is identifying it as a campaign-related felony. a campaign finance felony. so the president's lawyer has pled guilty. in so doing, he implicates the president personfully arranging two illegal payoffs during the campaign for the purposes of influencing the outcome of the campaign. mr. cohen, michael cohen, will be going to jail for this

conduct. but he has implicated the president in this criminal act as well. and then after did he that, federal prosecutors told the judge they have lots of evidence to prove this crime. the judge asked the prosecutors to summarize its evidence on these charges that cohen has just described. the prosecution goes through all the evidence. when it comes to the last two bomb shells, the felony charges on which michael cohen implicates the president personally, he stands up and gives bullet points that are a list of evidence that the government has dloektd prove the charges. quote. from search warrants on mr. cohen's premises including hard company documents, seized devitd and audio recordings. messages sent and e-mails. via subpoena including records from the corpse referenced, and

also referenced in the information. finally, we on offer testimony of witnesses including witnesses involved in the transactions in question, who communicated with the defendant. now, that's the list of evidence that government says it has compiled to prove that case. they explain that they've got all that evidence to the judge today in court. but the government is not going to put that evidence on display in a trial against michael cohen. because there's not going to be a trial because cohen has pled guilty. so cohen's plea and the court filings from prosecutors in this case, they implicate cohen. they also implicate the president in this same behavior. cohen's guilty plea spelled it out, out loud in the transcript that i just read to you. it is also spelled out in even more detail in the criminal information document which the prosecutor was just referencing there. the criminal information

document became public later this evening. it spells it out in even more detail. it describes one or more messages of the trump campaign coordinating with michael cohen to make these illegal payoffs. and this is interesting to me. hasn't received a lot of attention today but i think it is worth focusing on. the president's company, his business, the trump organization, also appears to be implicated in the description of this crime. because it is the president's company that is apparently the entity that reimbursed michael cohen for the illegal payoff. it was $130,000 illegal payoff to stormy daniels. they not only reimbursed him for the payoff. they also paid off a lot more on top of the reimbursement. it is spelled out that michael cohen put out this $130,000 as the payoff but then trump organization, the president's business, paid him back. not $130,000. they paid him back over $420,000. for having provided that

service. and that service, of course, was a felony for which mr. cohen will now go to prison. they paid him a lot of money to do that. i don't know if you can indict a president but i'm pretty sure you can indict president's company. so a big day. the indicted congressman today, congressman duncan hunter is very lucky to have had his criminal news land like a rain drop in this ocean of criminal news today about the president's campaign chair and his long time personal lawyer. as of today, both convicted felons. the last day like this, march 1st, 1974, saw mr. nixon named as an unindicted criminal conspirator. today there was no grand jury to do that kind of naming. but in the court filings, the president is implicated just as overtly as nixon ever was.

so now i have questions. i've laid out my questions on manafort. basically, how much time is manafort looking at? will that change his mind on flipping and cooperating? pretty simple. watch this space for that. including watch tonight for the publication of that list of evidence from the prosecution. manafort. but on cohen, tell me this. cohen and federal prosecutors in the federal district of new york, they implicate the president explicitly today in campaign violations with the secret payoffs. that's not the same thing as indicting the president for those charges. but what's the distance between implication by prosecutors, this explicit implication today, and indictment? like how do you travel that distance? and can you travel that distance? what happens now that the president is named as someone involved in the commission of multiple felonies? where does that go?

second question, michael cohen is not required to cooperate with prosecutors as a condition of his plea agreement. why not? did michael cohen not want that? what does that mean? and third, where is the special counsel? robert mueller and his prosecutors at the special counsel's office reportedly initiated this investigation of michael cohen but then handed it off to the regular public corruption investigators in the southern district in new york. the special counsel and his team of prosecutors appear nowhere in the hearing or in any of the hearings about michael cohen. does the special counsel's office want to talk on michael cohen? have they talked on michael cohen? does michael cohen have now or did he ever have an option to reduce his prison time but talking to the special counsel's office about what he knows that might be help envelop their other ongoing investigations? i mean, cohen implicated the

president and two felonies today. if cohen has more to say beyond implicating the president, should we expect that he will have more to say? i think we may be able to get an answer on that from a guest you will be surprised to see here. next. insurance that won't replace the full value of your new car? you'd be better off throwing your money right into the harbor. i'm gonna regret that. with liberty mutual new car replacement we'll replace the full value of your car.

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michael cohen did not sign a deal, in his plea he did directly implicate the president in participation in two felonies related to the campaign. two campaign finance violations to when mr. cohen looks like he will expect to do jail time. is michael cohen done? there was no mention of the special counsel or the special counsel's ongoing investigations in his case today. is there any connection at all between the special counsel's work and what just happened to mr. cohen today? joining us now is lanny davis, michael cohen's personal attorney, former white house counsel to mr. clinton. i'm really happy that you're here today. thank you for joining us. >> i want to say it's a long time i've wanted to be on your

show. i watch you all the time and i appreciate the invitation. >> thank you for saying that. i appreciate it. i know you have a lot of other things to be doing tonight. your client pled guilty to eight counts today. it was a standard plea agreement as far as we can tell. not a cooperation agreement. was that an option for you and your client? why wasn't there any cooperation deal? >> well, there are certain things i can answer directly. so let me try answer this indirectly. when i decided to represent mr. cohen, it was because he committed to me early on in many conversations that he wanted to tell the truth about donald trump. and we talked about what he knew about donald trump. this was one of the subjects. so whether i used the word cooperation or not, my colleague will know the answer to your question. it is truth that michael cohen is committed to and it is truth that so threatens the president

of the united states who has consistently lied in fact on this issue, denied knowing about these payments until rudolph giuliani, his lawyer, waiving attorney-client privilege, said he knew about the payments, directly contrary to the lie on air force one. to answer your question, mr. cohen is dedicated to telling the truth. if that amounts to the word cooperation, i'll leave that to my cohort, the great criminal defense lawyer to explain. >> the special counsel's office, special counsel's robert mueller and any of the prosecutors don't appear anywhere in the court filings today. they weren't discussed in court. that makes them a looming presence in this story and what we know about the future of your client. the future of michael cohen. is there anything to do with the special counsel that was involved in this plea agreement

today? has the special counsel approached michael cohen already about whether he would like to speak some of that truth to their inquiry in addition to what he's just faced in sdny? >> so, i can't tell you the answer to that about contacts between michael and the special counsel. but i can tell you that mr. cohen has knowledge on certain subjects that should be of interest to the special counsel and is more than happy to tell special counsel all that he knows. not just about the obvious possibility of a conspiracy to collude and corrupt the american democracy system in the 2016 election chflt the trump tower meeting was all about. but also, knowledge about the computer crime of hacking and whether or not mr. trump knew ahead of time about that crime and even cheered it on. we know that he publicly cheered

it on. did he also have private information? one thing to say about michael cohen, if i might, is that he's been through a very tough day. his wife and his two children and his family are, i would say, suffering from this type of event. so is michael. but in one very important respect, michael is relieved. he is a good man with a good heart that i discovered. but he is relieved and liberated, is the word i would say to your audience. because now he has no shadow hanging over him. the uncertainty is gone. he has stepped up to the line and admitted what did he wrong but he is now liberated to tell truth. everything about donald trump that he knows. that led him to approach someone like me, who he knows politically doesn't share anything with president trump. and from this point on, you're going to see liberated michael

cohen speaking truth to power. >> i want to underscore what you referenced, that mr. cohen has information about the president and his advance knowledge of the crime of hacking during the campaign. and you're saying that mr. cohen, whether or not he has spoken to the special counsel's office, he would be happy to discuss that with the special counsel, separate and apart from everything that happen today in the southern district of new york. >> i hate to be overly legalistic with you, but i'm not going to confirm what knowledge michael has. i will confirm that mr. mueller, who i greatly respect, will have a lot of interest in what michael has to say. and by the way, on just the crime of directing somebody to commit a crime, as you pointed out in your opening. it was a crime for president trump to direct michael cohen to the crime of a campaign finance

donation that exceeded the legal limitations. there is something else interesting that isn't so obvious. why didn't president trump do this himself? why didn't he write or sign the check himself? was he covering up because he knew that there was something wrong in what he was doing so he directed his lawyer to do something that he didn't want anybody to know that he did? i think the answer is obvious. there is a cover-up here by our now president of the united states that is undeniable. he directed michael cohen to make this payment of $130,000. he didn't have the courage, or at least, didn't want to expose himself politically so soon before the election. so he directed his lawyer to do that which he was not willing to do. >> thank you for being here. i hope you'll come back. much appreciated. to that last point that he was

making about president trump directing michael cohen to make the payments instead of making them himself, one of the thing we learned is that when trump directed cohen to do it, it could not have been out of convenience. one of the other felonies to which michael cohen pled today was lying the a bank in order to get a $130,000 home equity loan which is what he tapped to make the payment to stormy daniels which president trump directed him to make. so it is not like michael cohen was the easy choice. towed commit another felony to scratch the cash together to make that payment in the president's direction. he did get paid back handsomely for it but now he will go to jail for it. the question what will happen to the president for it? more to get to. i didn't believe it. again. ♪ ooh, baby, do you know what that's worth? ♪ i want to believe it. [ claps hands ] ♪ ooh i'm not hearing the confidence. okay, hold the name your price tool.

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emily jane fox is a senior reporter at "vanity fair." she spoke with michael cohen today after he pled guilty to eight felony charges, after he left court. she has been on the front lines of the story from the beginning. thank you for being with us today. somehow mr. cohen after his time many court today? >> i think it was an emotional day for him. i think what he wanted to express most to me was that this is a decision that he made for his family, and that one thing that kept coming up in our conversation was that he felt he was well treated by the government. this is something that he had said earlier when the government first raided his home and apartment, and hotel room and

office. that the fbi agents treated him very fairly then and he felt they treated him very fairly again in this deliberation and these talks. >> i feel like with we step back from the time line that we've all been living in. you've had so much interesting reporting over the weeks and months about cohen. some others have had, reporting along the same lines about cohen. about his feelings about the president. about his likelihood that he would cooperate with prosecutors. that he would be willing to essentially flip after his longstanding relationship with donald trump. after reading all of that, you're now confirming today what seemed quite apparently in court. you've confirmed it tonight. that cohen and prosecutors didn't talk until this last week. so there haven't been ongoing talks. >> there have been communications between his attorney and the government just basic communications, especially his attorney receiving out and

saying, hey. we're here. as you're going through documents, do you have any questions? but deliberations and specific discussions, from my reporting, i know they didn't really begin until last week. for weeks people have been saying, cohen is really quiet. he was out of the news cycle. why put himself back in? last week, that's when these conversations really began in earnest. >> and he pleads guilty today and there is no cooperation agreement that goes along with the plea. >> if you're only talking for the first time last week, and over the weekend, the beginning of this week, we know from all the very smart lawyers on this network all the time, that a cooperating agreement takes a lot of time. it takes a long, weeks if not months to get the witness to a place where they trust the witness, to work out all the details that you want to work out. if you're only starting this last week -- >> isn't that fascinating? prosecutors didn't want to start it earlier. they didn't want to develop him

into a cooperating witness. >> as he ran into the transcript from the beginning of the show, the government went through each charge. if they were intent on bringing those charges, they had what they needed. they took more than 3 million documents from anymore april. it seems like they had testimony from people. people were witnesses, if not already testified. cohen implicated the president to two felonies. to which he has pled guilty, to which serious jail time is attached lechbly davis just suggested on our air live that mr. cohen in addition to those remarkable statements today many court would be happy to speak with the special counsel on matters potentially including the president having advance knowledge of the crime that took place during the campaign, which was the hacking of documents from the democratic party.

that michael cohen may have knowledge that the president had advance warning of that happening and he would be happy to talk on special counsel about it. i'm still processing this. what can you add? >> he had a front row seat the a lot that was happening in trump tower during the campaign and in the last decade. so that was the first time that i had heard that. the stuff about the trump tower meeting, about him knowing about the president having advance knowledge of the payments that he made. when i was on your show. i said to you the exact two things had come up in his initial interview with george stephanopoulos. and i said those aren't bread crumbs. those are loaves of bread. those are things that i know to be true that michael cohen had known. i had no advance knowledge of the hacking situation. would it surprise me a person like michael cohen who was in trump tower day in and day out

and had almost daily access to the president during that time would know that information? no. >> and it is your expectation, if he knows that information, he will happily provide information. >> from everything that i know, everything that i know from where michael cohen is, state of mind, how he feels with the president and what he wants to do going forward. if there is information that he knows that he believes will be helpful, there will be no hesitation in sharing it. >> emily jane fox, senior reporter for "vanity fair." mr. cohen is out on $500,000 bail until his sentencing in early december. i imagine, you keep talking to him, you will continue to have amazing reporting on this style. congratulations being first on so much of this. thanks. we'll be right back. stay with us.

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from the great state of new jersey. thanks for being here. michael cohen and federal prosecutors from the southern district of new york implicated the has himself pled guilty and for which he expects to do jail-time. what's the difference between implicating somebody in a crime and charging them with a crime, otherwise holding them accountable for a crime? >> look, before somebody gets charged you have to have proof beyond a reasonable doubt to make that charge if you're a federal prosecutor. that's the standard for convicting. and federal prosecutors, if they're doing their jobs right, don't actually bring charges until they have enough evidence to convict. michael cohen obviously was in that circumstance. if you read what happened in court today, if you read what the prosecutors said they were prepared to prove, if you look at the detail of the criminal information which is basically a document instead of indictment when somebody is pleading. they had an enormous amount of evidence, they had an enormous a detail on each of the crimes with which he was charged and to

which he pled guilty. they may not have quite that much yet about the president of the united states. that's one reason. the second is they may be subscribing to the same view, that they can't indict the president of the united states, or maybe the southern district of new york shouldn't be the office to make that decision. and so the fact that the president hasn't been charged doesn't mean that there's not enough evidence. it just means that maybe we're not there yet. what i think is clear, though, is because what michael cohen al kutted to, what he admit theed it's not just his own crimes, he effectively admitted to a conspiracy. that makes the president of the united states ab unindicted co-conspirator. >> unindited co-conspirator is a famous phrase because we think of the floating head of richard nixon appears in our minds when we think of that. what are the material impliks of that? >> there aren't any really. the reason that the designation is usually useed is for evidentiary reasons. it has to do with what statements by other people you can get into evidence under certain circumstances. gu the statements of unindicted co-conspirators can come in at trial against a defendant sometimes. >> it helps you get around hearsay. >> it helps you get around the hearsay rules. exactly. we may have talked about this

once before. that's why he's not named that way. it actually is justice department policy not to give the names of people in charging documents like that who have not yet been charged, which is why the president isn't named himself -- >> technically, he's described -- >> right. i think what's also really interesting is that in the charges it says that cohen was working with one or more members of the campaign, which may not necessarily be just the president of the united states. maybe other people as well. so we may see other things coming out of this afterwards. we just don't know yet. >> am i also right that if the president is a de facto unindicted co-conspirator in these two felonies that that might have implications legally if the president tried to pardon one of his alleged co-conspirators? >> it certainly makes it look a lot worse. tough an interest in a particular case, if you have an interest in not having someone cooperate against you, if someone has evidence that would implicate you, that makes the reasons for your pardon so much more suspicious. that's why i think people are pretty exercised about the idea

he would do that here. what's also really interesting i think about what happened today is when michael cohen was asked what he did he talked about the tax evasion. he talked about making the false statement to the bank in order to get the loan. but he -- then he talked about the two campaign violations. the information, the charging document, doesn't say anything about the fact that he was directed to do this by the president. he said that on his own. he said it in what obviously sound node -- i wasn't there, but reading the transcript. like a prepared statement. it's very hard for me to believe that he made that prepared statement without his lawyers having shown it to the prosecutors so they weren't surprised by it. so my guess is he knew that was come to go. >> a remarkable set of charges not only for mr. cohen but because of what it means for the president. what it literally means for the president i guess we have to find out. >> and i don't think the fact the special counsel wasn't around today doesn't mean he's not going to talk to them. there's still plenty of time for that. if it turns out later that he

does cooperate with the special counsel, the special counsel can in fact let the sentencing court know about the extent of that cooperation and that could help michael cohen come sentencing time. >> on our air tonight a few minutes ago his lawyer offered to the special counsel he'd like to talk thoim about some potentially valuable stuff. >> exactly. >> paul fishman, former u.s. attorney for the great state of new jersey. much appreciated. more ahead tonight. stay with us. ♪ a hotel can make or break a trip. and at expedia, we don't think you should be rushed into booking one. that's why we created expedia's add-on advantage. now after booking your flight, you unlock discounts

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you made moonshine in a backwoods still. smuggled booze and dodged the law. even when they brought you in, they could never hold you down. when i built my family tree and found you, i found my sense of adventure. i set off on a new life, a million miles away. i'm heidi choiniere, and this is my ancestry story. now with over 10 billion historical records, discover your story. get started for free at ancestry.com when the president's campaign chair faced the music today in federal court in the eastern district of virginia, he was confronted from that jury

with eight counts of guilty but ten counts in which the jury didn't come to a verdict. joining us now is barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan. thank you very much for being with us tonight. i know you have been like white on rice on this trial from the beginning. i'm so happy to talk to you about it tonight. >> oh, thanks. i'm glad to be here. >> mistrial on ten counts. is there anything that you can tell about which verdict -- which counts the jury did give a verdict on versus the ones on which they couldn't come to con sensus that tells you about how the case against manafort went and was received by that jury. >> it's hard to know exactly what was going on. we know they convicted on all of the tax counts and so that suggests that you know, that was one where they were all in agreement and didn't have a problem with. they did not convict on most of the f bar accounts. this is the failure to identify foreign bank accounts. only one of those counts. and then they acquitted on -- or were hung on a number of the

bank fraud counts. they did convict on two of them. the one that -- the significant one they did not convict on was the one out of the federal savings bank out of chicago involving steven calc, the one in discussions with paul manafort asking to become secretary of the treasury or secretary of the army. one theory there is i wonder if they didn't consider that more of an inside job because steven calk was involved and that's solely in the hands of paul manafort. hard to read what's going on. and again, it could be just one juror who was holding out on those. but nonetheless, paul manafort was convicted of eight felonies and i would consider it a significant victory for the special counsel. >> do you expect on the ten counts on which there was a hung jury that the prosecution will try to bring those charges against manafort again? will they go back and try again with a different jury? >> i don't know. but i would suspect not. i think they won significant convictions today with the eight. the sentence is likely to be

significant with just those convictions. and the judge is permitted to impose a sentence that includes what's known as relevant conduct under the sentencing guidelines. so if he finds by a preponderance of the evidence, a much lower standard than the jury had to find, that manafort committed those additional crimes, then he is allowed to consider them in imposing sentence. sow i don't know that they have much to gain by retrying the case. so if it were me, i would not. they may have other reasons they want to go forward. >> and briefly, barb, do you think that the special counsel's office will go back to manafort's team now and talk to them again about whether he might want to flip and become a cooperating witness? rather than face the second trial in d.c. and hopefully not have to face all those years in prison he's looking at after all those convictions today. >> i do. in fact, if i were manafort's lawyer i would be advising manafort, this is your moment. i know you wanted to wait as long as possible, but this is it. this is your time. if you ever want to cooperate, now is your opportunity. maybe you could work out a deal where the d.c. case gets dismissed, you ask for a reduced

sentence in this case and you agree to cooperate. and i think from robert mueller's perspective it would be worth it because even if paul manafort doesn't have anything incriminating i think robert mueller's quest is to get to the truth and paul manafort certainly knows a lot of what happened. he was present at that june 2016 meeting at trump tower. he has all the connections with the russians and the ukrainians and so it seems that he's in a position to know a lot of what was happening with regard to any connections with russia. so i think we might see that. >> barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney in michigan. thank you, barb. really good to have you here tonight. >> thanks, rachel. >> what a day. that does it for us for right this second. see you again tomorrow. now it's time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell. good evening, lawrence. >> good evening, rachel. and i was so struck by your interview with lanny davis which is making news in that last hour. not only did he tell you that michael cohen has information that as he said should be of interest to the special un