i mean congressman duncan hunter really was indicted today by the federal prosecutors along with his wife. we thought it was a joke when it first crossed the news wires today like one more thing can happen today. but duncan hunter, sitting congressman, was indicted today along with his wife for campaign finance violations, wire fraud, falsifying records and conspiracy. that makes him oddly the luckiest man in the news today. if you're ever going to get indicted, how about today? right? a sitting member of congress who is running for re-election this year, getting indicted along with his wife and charged with multiple felonies? that's usually a big show stopper of a story. today, that's, i mean, it is a story. i will submit for your edification the fact that these were the two the first sitting members of congress to endorse doesn't j. trump for president in 2016. these were the first. on the left, congressman chris collins who was indicted on

felony charges less than two weeks ago. he was the first sitting member of congress to endorse donald trump for president. and on the right side of your careen k screen, that's congress man duncan hunter. he was the second sitting member to support donald trump for president and now today he too has been indicted on multiple felony charges. who was third? as i say, congressman duncan hunter probably considers himself lucky today. if you're going to get indicted, today was probably a pretty good day. because the news of his indictment arrived on a day like no other in this remarkable scandal-ridden presidency. we actually called presidential historian michael beschloss to ask if there's anything like there. has there ever been a single day in the news for any u.s. president that held similar explosive political force to the criminal court news that president trump got today with his campaign chairman being

found guilty on eight felony counts. eight felony counts which should put him away for years in prison and on the same day at beak at exactly the same moment, his long-time personal lawyer and long-time employee at his business also pleaded guilty to eight felony counts which should put him away for years in prison. in the case of the president's long time personal lawyer, his deal with prosecutors today not only included his own guilty pleas, it included detailed descriptions and evidence of the president's own participation, the president in fact directing felony criminal behavior. on the part of this defendant who has now pled guilty. we called michael beschloss today. has any u.s. president ever gone through anything quite like this when it comes to the criminal law? michael beschloss today told us, the only rough equivalent he can come up with in u.s. history would be march 1st, 1974.

that produced this headline the next day. march 1st, 1974, was the day a grand jury publicly indicted richard nixon's campaign manager who he had named attorney general and the president's top two aides in the white house and a bunch of other top white house nixon staffers. the critical catastrophe for nixon that day, march 1st, 1974, is that nixon himself was named as an unindicted co-conspirator by the grand jury in that criminal behavior. and those findings of criminal activity by president nixon, those were ultimately handed over dong gres for them to impeach him. tonight president trump is not facing impeachment. he is doing a rally in west virginia. but his campaign chairman and his long time personal lawyer are both convicted felons, as of tonight. and there is tremendous interest in the ultimate fate and the guilt and the impending prison time for both of these men.

but the president's own fate is a real front burner issue now because of what just happened with cohen and manafort. let's start with manafort. on manafort, you know by now the basics. manafort was convicted on eight felony counts. the jury in the manafort case was not able to reach a verdict on the other ten felony counts that manafort was facing. they didn't find him not guilty on those other ten charges. they just couldn't come to a decision. that gives the prosecution and the defense both some options here. on the counts where the jury didn't reach a verdict, there was a mistrial for those ten counts, than means prosecutors could decide to try paul manafort again on those ten counts. prosecutors have a choice as to whether or not they want to do that. on the other hand, there are the eight counts, the eight felony charges where the jurors did reach a verdict. on all eight charges they found him guilty. on those eight guilty verdicts,

the defense could appeal. so we'll get a little more details, some expert advice on this. it turned out to be fascinating about the whole story about the federal savings bank in chicago worked out and how the jury viewed paul manafort basically offering trump administration jobs to the ceo of that bank in exchange for him offering manafort millions of dollars in loans, the way the jury saw that turns out to be fascinating. we'll get some advice on that. we'll go through some of that later on. there are three things on watch when it comes to manafort now. specifically, potentially the president's own fate as it relates to paul manafort. three things to watch. the first two are logistical. number one, will manafort's defense team appeal the eight felony charges on which he was found guilty? also, will the government try to charge manafort again on the other ten felonies on which there was no verdict. so just logistics. is this trial over?

are these 18 counts settled or were they continued to be litigate inside that's one thing to watch. the second logistical thing to watch. after these convictions today on these eight felony charges, how much better or worse does manafort's fate look for his next felony trial which after all, starts in less than a month in federal court in d.c. this was manafort's trial in virginia. he is about to go on trial in federal court in d.c. less than a month from now. and believe it or not, tonight is the deadline for the prosecutors to submit their list of evidence that they are planning on using in that next case against manafort next month. we are expecting over the course of this evening, sometime tonight to get access to that evidence list. we're expecting that it will contain well over 1,000 individual pieces of evidence that prosecutors will use in their case against manafort next month. when we get that evidence list tonight, presumably it will land like an anvil on the manafort defense team. right? it will come just hours after

that your client was convicted on eight felony counts in a different federal court today. is that case over? how does it affect the next case? there's twos things to watch. basically logistical but it be fascinating watch both of those. the third thing on watch here when it comes to manafort. with these eight felony quikszs convictions today, trump campaign manager paul manafort is the facing a maximum snchbs 0 years in prison. he's probably looking at maybe seven to nine years. and he is about to face another felony trial against the same special counsel's office who just got him convicted on eight felonies and that's coming up in less than a month. you see where this is going. the last thing to watch when it comes to paul manafort is, whether being convicted today while staring down the evidence

in the next trial he's about to face in d.c., whether any of this is going to change paul manafort's own calculus about whether or not he might want to help prosecutors now. paul manafort, a lot of other people in the russia scandal have flipped and decided to help prosecutors. not manafort. he has not cooperated with prosecutors at all. if he decided now to start cooperating, his future would look very different. presumably, right? depending on the deal he was able to cut. depending on what he could offer information about. depending on how valuable it might be to prosecutors and any other investigations they are pursuing. the years in prison that he is now looking at as of today for the felonies of which he was convicted today, those years conceivably in a deal with prosecutors, those years might go away, as might the charges he's about to face in his new trial in court in washington, d.c. next month. we're going on get some expert advice on this.

whatever math paul manafort has done in his head whether or not he wanted to flip and help prosecutors in any of their other work in other cases including cases potentially involving the president, that math might have changed today when the jury pronounced him guilty on eight felonies in that courtroom. so it is half of what is looming over the president today. does paul manafort feel differently enough that he might be willing to talk? that's half of what is looming. and then there is the president's personal lawyer. the judge. let's begin then with an initial appearance. mr. cone, i am district judge william paulie. william pauley. the purpose of this proceeding is to inform you of certain rights you have. to inform of, to decide under what conditions you should be released. first, you have the right to remain silent. you are not required to make any statements.

even if you have made any statements to the authorities, you need not make any further statements. anything you do say can be used against you. you have the right to be released conditionally or unconditionally pending trial unless i find there are no conditions that would reasonably assure your presences in court and the safety of the community. you have the right, sir, be to represent by counsel during all court proceedings including this one and during all questioning by authorities. if you cannot afford an attorney, i will appoint one to represent you. the government has offered information in this case. have you seen that information, mr. cohen? >> the defendant, michael cohen. yes, your honor. have you read it? i have, sir. have you discussed with it your attorney? >> mr. cohen, i have, sir. >> the judge. mr. cohen, do you understand sir, that you are now under oath and if you answer any of my questions falsely, your false or untrue answers may later be used against you in

another prosecution for perjury or making a facility statement? or making a false statement? michael cohen, i do, your honor. the judge, very well. for the record, what is your full name? michael cohen says, michael dean cohen. the judge, and at this time, mr. cohen, you may be seated and i would ask that you pull the microphone close to you. the defendant, thank you, your honor. >> mr. cohen, how old are you, sir? the defendant, in four days i'll be 52. the judge, how far did you go in school? >> law. >> the judge. are you able to read, white, speak and understand english. >> the defendant, yes, your honor. >> the judge. are you now or have you recently been under the care of a doctor or psychiatrist? >> the defendant. no, your honor. court, have you ever been treated or hospitalized for any mental illness or hospitalized for any addiction? >> no. >> the judge, in the past 24 hours have you taken any drugs, medicine or pills or have you consumed any alcohol? yes, your honor. the judge, what have you taken or consumed, sir? >> last night at dinner, i had a

glass of glenly vet 12 on the rocks. the judge, all right. is it your custom to do that? no, your honor. the judge, all right. have you had anything since that time? >> the defendant, no, your honor. is your mind clear today? yes. are you feeling all right? yes, sir. are you represented by counsel? >> i am. >> who are your attorneys? >> guy pet trillo and amy lester. >> mr. pet trillo, do you have any doubt as to your client's competence to plead at this time? >> i do not, your honor. >> judge, now, mr. cohen, your attorney has informed me that you wish to enter a plea of guilty. do you wish to enter a plea of guilty? defendant, yes, sir. the judge, have you had a full opportunity to discuss your case with your attorney and to discuss the consequences of a plea of guilty? yes, your honor. judge, are you satisfied with your attorneys, mr. petrillo in their representation of new this matter? >> the defendant, very much, sir. >> the judge, on the basis of mr. cohen's responses to my questions and my observations of his demeanor in the courtroom

this afternoon, i find that he is full competent and informed plea at this time. warned that he will be prosecuted for perjury if he gives any false statements at this hearing today. they then go through it. there is a long back and forth at this point about cohen understanding the nature his plea deal and the charges against him and the clear mind with which he is pleading guilty. he pleads guilty to eight felony charges today. felony tax evasion in five separate charges. making a false statement to a financial institution to get a loan that he shouldn't have otherwise gotten and then last two charges that blew the proverbial lid off the place today. as they're going through all the charges between the judge and the attorneys and mike cohen, just saying yes, your honor a lot as they're going through stuff, there comes this moment in today's hearing when the judge asks michael cohen to explain in his own words the

crimes he has commit and to which he is pleading guilty. the judge. mr. cohen, would you please tell me what you did in connection to each of the crimes to which are you entering a plea of guilty? michael cohen, yes, your honor. may i stand? the judge. you may. the defendant, thank you, sir. michael cohen. i also just jotted down some notes so that i can keep my focus and address this court in proper fashion. as to counts one through five, i evaded paying substantial taxes on certain income i received that i knew was not reflected on the return and that i caused to be filed. and then i won't read all the details but cohen says he how he knowingly lied to a bank that you applied for a loan. we learned he used it to pay off stormy daniels. we'll have more only later. but then we get to the part that led to front pages like this. this is the front page of the "new york times."

cohen pleads guilty implicating president. that's the front page of the "new york times" tonight. here's where that comes from in court today. ready? okay. michael cohen. thank you, your honor. as to count number seven, on or about the summer of 2016 in coordination with and at the direction of a candidate for federal office, i and the ceo of a media company, at the request of the candidate, worked together to keep an individual with information that would be harmful to the candidate and to the campaign from publicly disclosing this information. after a number of discussions, we eventually accomplished the goal by the media company entering into a contract with the individual under which she received compensation of $150,000. i participated in this conduct which on my part took place in manhattan for the principle purpose of influencing the election. the federal candidate in this case is the president of the united states. the election in this case is the

election that made him president of the united states. and this is the president's attorney, saying under oath, under penalty of perjury, that the president directed this illegal payoff during the campaign for the purposes of influencing the election. this count, number seven, is the karen mcdougal case. this is the woman who used to model forboy" magazine who said she had a long running affair with the president. michael cohen said in court today that the president directed him, michael cohen, and the ceo of a media company, which appears to be david pecker, the ceo of american media, the owner of "national enquirer," michael cohen said the president directed two of them to arrange a payment of $150,000 to karen mcdougal during the election. specifically for the purpose of influencing the election. now, that is something that has been reported in detail that you have heard about over months. that is now being charged as a felony. as an illegal corporate

contribution to the president's campaign. one that, according to this court proceeding today, was directed by the president himself. now, michael cohen is pleading guilty to his own role in that but he is directly implicating both the president of the united states and the executive david pecker in that same criminal act. so we'll have more on that in a second. but then here's the last count. and this part is probably even worse for the president at least the way i read it. back to the print. mike cohen. your honor, as to count number eight, on or about october of 2016, the month before the election, in coordination with and at the direction of the same candidate, i arranged to make a payment to a second individual with information that would be harmful to the candidate and the campaign to keep the individual from disclosing the information. to accomplish this i used a company that was under my control to make a payment in the

sum of $130,000. the moneys i advanced were later repaid to me by the candidate. i participated in this conduct which on my part took place in manhattan for the principal purpose of influencing the election. the reason he is saying, i did this in manhattan is because he is being charged by federal prosecutors. in the southern district of new york. that's essentially establishing their jurisdiction to charge him with these felonies. when he says he participated in this conduct for the principal purpose of influencing the election, that is identifying this felony as a campaign-related felony, a campaign finance felony. so the president's lawyer has pled guilty. in so doing, he implicates the president personally in arranging two illegal payoffs during the campaign for the purpose of influencing the outcome confident campaign. mr. cohen, michael cohen, will be going to jail for this conduct. but he has implicated the president in this criminal act as well.

and then after did he that, federal prosecutors told the judge they have lots of evidence to prove this crime. the judge asked the prosecutors to summarize its evidence on these charges that cohen has just described. the prosecution goes through all the evidence. ought barge charges all the bank charges and all the felony charges on which michael cohen implicates the president personally, he stands up and gives bullet points that are a list of evidence that the government has collected to prove those charges. quote, records obtained from a series of search warrants on olympian cohen's premises including hard copy documents, seized devices and audio recoveredings made by mr. cohen. we would also offer messages september and e-mails. via subpoena including records

from the reference and alsorenced in the information. finally we would offer testimony of witnesses including witnesses involved in the transactions in question who communicated with the defendant. now, that's the list of evidence that government says it has compiled to prove that case. they explain that they've got all that evidence to the judge today in court. but the government is not going to put that evidence on display in a trial against michael cohen because there's not going to be a trial because cohen has pled guilty. so cohen's plea and the court filings from prosecutors in this case, they implicate cohen. they also implicate the president in this same criminal behavior. cohen's guilty plea spelled it out, out loud in the transcript that i just read to you. it's also spelled out in even more detail in the criminal information document which the prosecutor was just referencing there in that quote that i just read. the criminal information document became public later this evening. it spells it out in even more detail.

it describes one or more members of the trump campaign coordinating with michael cohen to make these illegal payoffs. and this is interesting to me. it hasn't received a lot of attention today but i think it is worth focusing on. the president's company, his business, the trump organization, also appears to be implicated in the description of this crime. because it is the president's company that is apparently the entity that reimbursed michael cohen for the illegal payoff. it was $130,000 illegal payoff to stormy daniels. they not only reimbursed him for the payoff. they also paid him a lot more on top of the reimbursement. it is spelled out that michael cohen put out this $130,000 as the payoff but then trump organization, the president's business, paid him back not $130,000. they paid him back over $420,000 for having provided that service. and that service, of course, was

a felony for which mr. cohen will now go to prison. they paid him a lot of money to do that. i don't know if you can indict a president but i'm pretty sure you can indict the president's company company. so a big day. the indicted congressman today, congressman duncan hunter is very lucky to have had his criminal news land like a rain drop in this ocean of criminal news today about the president's campaign chair and his long time personal lawyer. both now as of today, convicted felons. the last day like this, march 1st, 1974, saw mr. nixon named as an unindicted is co-conspirator in criminal cases against his top aides. today there was no grand jury to do that kind of naming. but in the court filings around the michael cohen guilty pleas the president is implicated just as overtly as nixon ever was.

so now i have questions. i've laid out my questions on manafort. basically, how much time is manafort ultimately looking at? will that change his mind on flipping and cooperating? pretty simple. watch this space for that. including watch tonight for the publication of that list of evidence from the prosecution. manafort. but on cohen, tell me this. cohen and federal prosecutors in the southern southern district of new york, they implicate the president explicitly today in campaign violations with the secret payoffs. that's not the same thing as indicting the president for those charges. but what's the distance between implication by prosecutors, this explicit implication today, and indictment? like how do you travel that distance? and can you travel that what happens now that the president is named as someone involved in the commission of multiple felonies? where does that go? second question, michael cohen is not required to cooperate

with prosecutors as a condition of his plea agreement. why not? did prosecutors not want that? did michael cohen not want that? what does that mean? and third, where is the special counsel? robert mueller and his prosecutors at the special counsel's office reportedly initiated this investigation of michael cohen but then handed it off to the regular public corruption prosecutors at the u.s. attorney's office in the southern district of new york. the special counsel and his team of prosecutors appear nowhere in the hearing or in any of the hearings about michael cohen. does the special counsel's office want to talk to michael cohen? have they talked on michael cohen? does michael cohen have now or did he ever have an option to reduce his prison by talking to the special counsel's office about what he knows that might be helpful in their other ongoing investigations? i mean, cohen implicated the

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michael cohen did not sign a deal that obly guys him to cooperate with prosecutors today but he did plead guilty today in participation in two felonies related to the campaign. two campaign finance violations to when mr. cohen looks like he will expect to do jail time. is michael cohen done? there was no mention of the special counsel or the special counsel's ongoing investigations in his case today. is there any connection at all between the special counsel's work and what just happened to mr. cohen today? joining us now is lanny davis, michael cohen's personal attorney, former special white house counsel to bill clinton. i'm really happy that you're joining us here today. thank you for joining us. >> i want to say it's a long time i've wanted to be on your show.

i watch you all the time and i appreciate the invitation. >> thank you for saying that. i appreciate you being here. i know that you have a lot of other things to be doing tonight. your client pled guilty to eight counts today. it was a standard plea agreement as far as we can tell. not a cooperation agreement. was that an option for you and your client? why wasn't there any cooperation deal? >> well, there are certain things i can answer directly. so let me try to answer this indirectly. when i decided to represent mr. cohen, it was because he committed to me early on in many conversations that he wanted to tell the truth about donald trump. and we talked about what he knew about donald trump. this was one of the subjects. so whether i used the word cooperation or not, and my colleague guy pet trillo, will note answer to your question, it's truth that michael cohen is committed to and it's the truth that so threatens the president of the united states who has

consistently lied in fact on this issue, denied knowing about these payments until rudolph giuliani, his lawyer, waiving attorney-client privilege, said oh, he knew about the payments directly contrary to the lie on air force one. so to answer your question, mr. cohen be dedicated to telling the truth. if that amounts to the word cooperation, i'll leave that to my cohort, the great criminal defense lawyer guy pet trillo to explain. >> the special counsel's office, special counsel's robert mueller and any of the prosecutors don't appear anywhere in the court filings today. they weren't discussed in court. that makes them a looming presence in this story and what we know about the future of your client. the future of michael cohen. is there anything to do with the special counsel that was involved in this plea agreement today? has the special counsel approached michael cohen already

about whether he would like to speak some of that truth to their inquiry in addition to what he's just faced in sdny? >> so, i can't tell you the answer to that question about kaktz between mi about contacts between michael and the special counsel. but i can tell you that mr. cohen has knowledge on certain subjects that should be of interest to the special counsel and is more than happy to tell the special counsel all that he knows. not just about the obvious possibility of a conspiracy to collude and corrupt the american democracy system in the 2016 election, which the trump tower meeting was all about. but also, knowledge about the computer crime of hacking and whether or not mr. trump knew ahead of time about that crime and even cheered it on. we know that he publicly cheered it on. did he also have private information?

one thing to say about michael cohen, if i might, is that he's been through a very tough day. his wife and his two children and his family are, i would say, suffering from this type of event. so is michael. but in one very important respect, michael is relieved. he is a good man with a good heart that you've discovered. but he is relieved and liberated, is the word i would say to your audience. because now he has no shadow hanging over him. the uncertainty is gone. he has stepped up to the line and admitted what he did wrong but he is now liberated to tell the truth, everything about donald trump that he knows that led him to approach someone like me who he knows politically doesn't share anything with president trump. and from this point on, you're going to see liberated michael cohen speaking truth to power.

>> in terms of what you just said, i just want to underscore what you just referenced, that mr. cohen has information about the president and his advance knowledge of the crime of hacking during the campaign. and you're saying that mr. cohen, whether or not he has spoken to the special counsel's office, he would be happy to discuss that with the special counsel, separate and apart from everything that happened today in the southern district of new york? >> i hate to be overly legalistic with you, but i'm not going to confirm what knowledge michael has. i will confirm that mr. mueller, who i greatly respect, will have a lot of interest in what michael has to say. and by the way, on just the crime of directing somebody to commit a crime, as you pointed out in your opening, it was a crime for president trump to direct michael cohen to the crime of a campaign finance donation that exceeded the legal limitations. there is something else interesting that isn't so

obvious. why didn't president trump do this himself? why didn't he write or sign the check himself? was he covering up because he knew that there was something wrong in what he was doing so he directed his lawyer to do something that he didn't want anybody to know that he did? i think the answer to that question is obvious. so there's a cover-up here by our now president of the united states that is undeniable. he directed michael cohen to make this payment of $130,000. he didn't have the courage, or at least, didn't want to expose himself politically so soon before the election. so he directed his lawyer to do that which he was not willing to do. >> lanny davis, attorney for michael cohen, mr. davis, thank you for being here. i hope you'll come back. >> thank you for having me, rachel. much appreciated. to that last point that he was making about president trump directing michael cohen to make the payments instead of making

them himself, one of the things we learned is that when trump directed cohen to do it, it could not have been out of convenience. one of the other felonies to which michael cohen pled today was lying to a bank in order to get $130,000 home equity loan which is what he tapped to make the payment to stormy daniels which president trump had directed him to make. so it is not like michael cohen was the easy choice. michael cohen had to commit another felony in order to scratch the cash together to make that payment at the president's direction. he did get paid back handsomely for it but now he will go to jail for it. the question what will happen to the president for it? more to get to. stay with us. ♪[upbeat music]

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emily jane fox is a senior reporter at "vanity fair." she spoke with michael cohen today after he pled guilty to eight felony charges, after he left court. emily jane fox has been on the frontlines of the story from the very beginning. thank you for being with us today. how was mr. cohen after his time in court today? >> i think it was an emotional day for him. i think what he wanted to express most to me was that this is a decision that he made for his family, and that one thing that kept coming up in our conversation was that he felt he was well treated by the government. this is something that echoes something he said to me earlier when the government first raided had his home and apartment and

hotel room and office. that the fbi agents treated him very fairly then and he felt they treated him very fairly again in this deliberation and these talks. i feel like when we sort of step back from the timeline we've all been living in, you've had so much interesting reporting over the weeks and months about cohen. some others have had, reporting along the same lines about cohen. about his feelings about the president. about his likelihood that he would cooperate with prosecutors. that he would be willing to essentially flip after his longstanding relationship with donald trump. after reading all of that, and learning all of that over a period of months, you're now confirming today what seemed quite an apparent in court. you've confirmed it tonight in the "vanity fair" that cohen and prosecutors didn't talk until this last week. so there haven't been ongoing talks. >> there have been communications between his attorney and the government just basic communications, especially

his attorney receiving out and saying, hey. we're here. as you're going through documents, if you have any questions. but deliberations and specific discussions, from my reporting, i know they didn't really begin until last week. for weeks people have been saying, cohen is really quiet. cohen is really quiet. is it because there are conversations. he was out of the news cycle. why put himself back in? last week, that's when these conversations really began in earnest. >> and he pleads guilty today and there is no cooperation agreement that goes along with the plea. >> if you're only talking for the first time last week, and over the weekend, the beginning of this week, we know from all the very smart lawyers on this network all the time, that a cooperating agreement takes a lot of time. it takes a long, weeks if not months to get the witness to a place where they trust the witness, to work out all the details that you want to work out. if you're only starting this last week -- >> isn't that fascinating? prosecutors didn't want to start those conversations with him

earlier, that they didn't want to develop him into a cooperating witness. >> as you read the transcript from the beginning of the show, the government went through each charge and what evidence they had for each of those charges. if they were intent on bringing those charges, they had what they needed. they took more than 3 million documents from him in april. it seems like they had testimony from people. they had empanelled a grand jury and people were witnesses if not already testified. >> cohen today directly implicated the president in two felonies. to which he has pled guilty, to which serious jail time is attached. lanny davis just suggested on our air live that mr. cohen in addition to those remarkable statements today many court would be happy to speak with the special counsel on matters potentially including the president having advance knowledge of the crime that took place during the campaign, which was the hacking of documents

from the democratic party. that michael cohen may have knowledge that the president had advance warning of that happening and he would be happy to talk to special counsel about it. i'm b bumbling that in the way i say it. i'm still processing this. what can you add? >> mike cohen had a front row seat to a lot that was happening in trump taurg durirump tower d campaign and in the last decade. so that was the first time that i had heard that. the stuff about the trump tower meeting, about him knowing about the president having advance knowledge of the payments that he made. when i was on your show. i said to you the exact two things had come up in his initial interview with george stephanopoulos. and i said those aren't bread crumbs. those are loaves of bread. those are things that i know to be true that michael cohen had known. i had no advance knowledge of the hacking situation. would it surprise me a person like michael cohen who was in trump tower day in and day out

and had almost daily access to the president during that time would know that kind of information? no. >> and it is your expectation, if he knows that information, he will happily provide that information to the special counsel provided that they want it? >> from everything that i know, everything that i know from where michael cohen is, state of mind, how he feels about the president and what he wants to do going forward. if there is information that he knows that he believes will be helpful to the special counsel, there will be no hesitation in sharing it. >> emily jane fox, senior reporter for "vanity fair." mr. cohen is out on $500,000 bail until his sentencing in early december. i imagine, if you keep talking to him, you will continue to have some amazing reporting on this story. congratulations being first on so much of this. thanks. we'll be right back. stay with us.

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coordinationing with and at the direction of a candidate for federal office, there is no great mystery of who that candidate was. just in case, in the criminal information document filed by prosecutors that we got access to tonight, there was this description which leaves no doubt. quote, in or about january 2017, michael cohen began holding himself out as the personal attorney to individual one who at that point had become the president of the united states. so individual one, we can narrow it down. joining us now, paul fishman from the great state of new jersey. mr. fish man, thank you very much for being here. >> thank you for having me back. >> michael cohen and federal prosecutors implicated the president today in felonies to which mr. cohen has himself pled guilty and for which he expects to do jail time. what's the difference between implicating somebody in a crime and charging them with a crime, otherwise holding them accountable for a crime? >> oh look, before somebody gets charged you have to have proof

beyond a reasonable doubt to make that charge if you're a federal prosecutor. that's the standard for convicting and federal prosecutors don't actually bring charges until they have enough evidence to convict. michael cohen was obviously in that circumstance. if you read what happened in court, if you look at the detail of the criminal information which is beak a document that instead of indictment when somebody's pleading, if you look at that document, they had an enormous amount of evidence. an amount of detail about each of the crimes which he was charge and to which he pled guilty. they may not have the quite that much yet about the preds of the united states. that's one reason. the second is, they may be subscribing to the same view they can't indict the president of the united states or maybe the southern district of new york office shouldn't be the one to make that decision. the fact that the president hasn't been charged doesn't mean there's not enough evidence. what michael cohen aloe acuted to is not just his own crimes,

he effective lili admitted to a conspiracy. that makes the president an unindict co-conspirator. >> >>. >> what are the material implications of that? >> the reason the designation has to do with what statements by other people you can get into evidence under certain circumstances, the statement of unindicted co-conspirators can come in trial against a defendant. >> it helps with the hearsay. >> exactly. so that's why he's not named that way. it is justice department policy not to give the names of people in charging documents like that who have not yet been charged which is why the president isn't named himself. >> technically he's described within an inch of his life. >> it's interesting in the charges, it says that cohen was working with one or more members of the campaign which may not necessarily be just the president of the united states. maybe other people, as well. we may see other things coming

out of this afterwards. we don't know yet. >> am i right if the president is and defacto unindict co-conspirator in these two felonies that might have implications legally if the president tried to pardon one of his alleged co-conspirators? >> it certainly makes it look worse. if you have an interest in not having someone cooperate against you, if someone has evidence that would implicate you that makes the reasons for your pardon so much more suspicious. that's why people are exercised about the idea he would do that here. what's also interesting about what happened today is when cohen was asked what he did, he talked about the tax evasion and making false statement to the bank in order to get the loan. he talked about the two campaign violations. the information the charging document doesn't say anything about the fact that he was directed to do there by the president. he said that on his own. he said it in what sounded to

me, i wasn't there but reading at trupt like a prepared statement. it's very hard for me to believe that he made that prepared statement without his lawyers having shown it to the prosecutors so that they weren't surprised by it. so my guess is they knew that was coming, too. >> a rackable set of charges today. who the only for mr. cohen but obviously because of what it means for the president what, it literally means for the president we have yet to find out. >> i don't think the fact that the special counsel wasn't around doesn't mean he's not talked to them. there's plenty of time for that. if it turns out later he does cooperate, the special counsel can let the sentencing court know about the extent of that cop of cooperation. >> a few minutes ago his lawyer offered he would like to talk to the special counsel some important stuff. more ahead tonight. stay with us.

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when the president's campaign chair faced the music today in federal court in the eastern district of virginia, he was confronted from that jury with eight counts of guilty but ten counts in which the jury didn't come to a verdict. joining us now is barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan. thank you very much for being with us tonight. i know you have been like white on rice on this trial from the beginning. i'm so happy to talk to you about it tonight. >> oh, thanks. i'm glad to be here. >> mistrial on ten counts. is there anything that you can tell about which verdict -- which counts the jury did give a verdict on versus the ones on

which they couldn't come to consensus that tells you about how the case against manafort went and was received by that jury? >> it's hard to know exactly what was going on. we know they convicted on all of the tax counts and so that suggests that you know, that was one where they were all in agreement and didn't have a problem with. they did not convict on most of the f bar accounts. this is the failure to identify foreign bank accounts. only one of those counts. and then they acquitted on -- or were hung on a number of the bank fraud counts. they did convict on two of them. the one that -- the significant one they did not convict on was the one out of the federal savings bank out of chicago involving steven steven calk, the one in discussions with paul manafort asking to become secretary of the treasury or secretary of the army. one theory there is i wonder if they didn't consider that more of an inside job because steven

calk was involved and that's solely in the hands of paul manafort. hard to read what's going on. and again, it could be just one juror who was holding out on those. but nonetheless, paul manafort was convicted of eight felonies and i would consider it a significant victory for the special counsel. >> do you expect on the ten counts on which there was a hung jury that the prosecution will try to bring those charges against manafort again? will they go back and try again with a different jury? >> i don't know. but i would suspect not. i think they won significant convictions today with the eight. the sentence is likely to be significant with just those convictions. and the judge is permitted to impose a sentence that includes what's known as relevant conduct under the sentencing guidelines. so if he finds by a preponderance of the evidence, a much lower standard than the jury had to find, that manafort committed those additional crimes, then he is allowed to consider them in imposing sentence. so often that they have much to gain by retrying the case. so if it were me, i would not. they may have other reasons they want to go forward. >> and briefly, barb, do you

think that the special counsel's office will go back to manafort's team now and talk to them again about whether he might want to flip and become a cooperating witness? rather than face the second trial in d.c. and hopefully not have to face all those years in prison he's looking at after those ought convictions today? >> i do. in fact, if i were manafort's lawyer i would be advising manafort, this is your moment. i know you wanted to wait as long as possible, but this is it. this is your time. if you ever want to cooperate, now is your opportunity. maybe you could work out a deal where the d.c. case gets dismissed, you ask for a reduced sentence in this case and you agree to cooperate. and i think from robert mueller's perspective it would be worth it because even if paul manafort doesn't have anything incriminating i think robert mueller's quest is to get to the truth and paul manafort certainly knows a lot of what happened. he was present at that june 2016 meeting at trump tower. he has all the connections with the russians and the ukrainians and so it seems that he's in a position to know a lot of what was happening with regard to any connections with russia. so i think we might see that.

>> barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney in michigan. thank you, barb. really good to have you here tonight. >> thanks, rachel. >> what a day. that does it for us for right this second. see you again tomorrow. now it's time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell. good evening, lawrence. >> good evening, rachel. and i was so struck by your interview with lanny davis which is making news in that last hour. not only did he tell you that michael cohen has information that as he said should be of interest to the special counsel, there's this specificity he got into at the end of that answer where he said it includes knowledge about the computer crime of hacking and whether or not mr. trump knew ahead of time about that crime and even cheered it on. we know he publicly cheered it on but did he also do that in private and did he have private information? and that was as far as lanny davis was willing to go tonight. but that sounds like the tip of an iceberg. >> he did literally make the offer on tv right here live that