and ask how you get xfinity mobile included with your internet. plus, get $300 back when you buy a new smartphone. xfinity mobile. it's simple. easy. awesome. click, call or visit a store today. coming up, the owner of virginia's red hen restaurant refuses service to the white house press secretary sarah huckabay sanders. does it make any business sense for owners to reject customers. >> swearing its employees and vendors to secrecy to stop any leaks about upcoming products and designs and celebrities create a snack bar that's helping to save children's lives. when it comes to making choices for your business, we have your back. that is all coming up next on msnbc's "your business."

h hi, everyone. welcome to your business, the show dedicated to helping your growing business. these four actors never imagined entrepreneur would be a role they'd take on but then they saw something they could not forget. we sat down to talk about the snack food company this bar saves lives and how their day jobs helped them get the word out about this snack that is anything but subtle about its

mission. >> it's in your face. >> this los angeles based snack food company is anything but subtle about their mission statement. >> the name first of all is i think our biggest calling card. >> they don't mince words. the name of the company says exactly what they're trying to do. this bar saves lives. >> we want to end childhood mall nutrition worldwide. it's an insanely huge goal, but that's really what's at the heart of the company. >> it all started with a humanitarian trip, the actors took to liberia in 2008. >> we toured a refugee camp where we saw dozens of kids who were literally wasting away because they didn't have enough food and it crushed us. and we left that place that day and we decided that we had to do something. >> that something ended up being this snack bar company that gives life saving food to malnourished kids all over the

world with every snack they sell. when they first started, these actors knew exactly what their mission would be. but they had zero idea about how to begin. so they started to make calls to people they knew including fellow performer robbie patel. >> so ryan is one of my closest friends and he goes listen, i know you've done some business stuff before. todd and i have this idea, i want to talk to you about it and about two hours later, i had not only given him whatever advice i could think of but also decided to join the movement. >> their next call was to another famous friend. kristen bell. >> we gave it to kristen as well. we wanted her take on it and she had the same reaction. i want in. i want to be a partner and so really from the get-go it was the four of us. >> four cofounders with tons of acting experience and lots of passion, but no clue about how

to make a tasty snack bar. >> we started just trying to make granola bars at our kitchens and they came out in these sheets of just brick. i mean it was like you could have knocked somebody out with it. >> the one thing we know we have is we have some famous friends so a bunch of celebrities helped connect us with various people in business, people who became advisors and our closest confidants as we ran this business. >> they knew their fan base would help with that first sale but to get repeats it would be all about the product. it took them five years to finally launch something that could hold its own in the crowded snack industry. >> nobody's going to buy our bar unless they love the taste and how it feels and i'll tell you, this is the best bar out there. >> we're trying to save the lives of children who are dying because they don't have enough food and if we have to be audacious and in your face about it we have no shame about that.

we put this bar saves lives all over the place and we put our mission statement at all points of sale. we are not shy about saying this bar saves lives on everything. >> from the start they knew they'd need reenforcements. >> because we were actors, we'd never started a business before. i don't think any of us really knew how much work it was going to be and how hard it was going to be. we were working to bring in more people more experienced and could run it better than we could run it and it just got to that point naturally. >> so in 2017, they brought on ceo paul yu whether or not's no stranger to celebrity businesses. he was working with jessica alba's honest company when he first heard about this bar saves lives. they're now working on contributing their strengths to the company and leave the rest to paul and his team. >> i really love it because each founder has their own secret sauce and secret weapon so i

call upon their expertise whenever i need it. i'm not an actor and i don't ever profess to become one and it's wonderful that we could leverage each one in their own individual flare to get out and tell our story and not just our story but more importantly the stories of the people we're trying to help. >> it's all about experience. being many the world of formal story telling is not unlike being in a world of trying to impact people through a product. it's just instead of a movie it's a granola bar and a virtual reality experience that's on our website. people can be in touch with the people, the lives that they're actually changing. >> you can find this bar saves lives in retail locations all over the country including star you can bes, whole foods and target. and the company's donated over 3 million nutrition packets to children in need and counting. >> i want people every time they pick up one of our bars, i mean, i don't want them while they're

eating the bars to think of anything other than how delicious it is but when they look at the wrapper i want them to think something good just happened as a result of this thing that i was going to do anyway. we take a lot of pride in giving as much as we can in the best way possible and to me, from a business perspective, that is symbiotic with success. i want people to look at our company and be like, those guys did social enterprise better than everyone else and they redefined what social enterprise could be and hopefully as a result of this more and more companies pop up doing the same thing. >> would you turn away a customer because you don't agree with their political or maybe some other opinion? well, that was the case in lexington, virginia, when the owner of the red hen restaurant asked white house press secretary sarah huckabay sanders to leave because of her affiliation with the trump add min station. this comes on the heels of a supreme court of a baker's right

to refuse to make a wedding cake for a same sex couple on religious grounds. how wise is it to reject any customer based on their believes? daniel has conducted research on employee and consumer reactions to companies that take controversial political stands and chairman of the delfi group and good to see both of you. >> thank you, j.j. >> this is so interesting to me. and i actually want to flip this discussion, because there are some cases where you want to make a stand, you probably know what you're getting into. right? you maybe not know the extent of the backlash or support, but what happens when people are asking you to make a stand? i'm going to start with you, tom, how do you make -- that's the hard decision because this is your customers, consumers saying there's going to be a

backlash if you don't take a stand and then you fear the backlash from the people that you do want to take a stand. >> first of all as a business owner you can't avoid this topic. it's not one that you'll be able to side step. and in some ways it's getting much more pronounced because through social media my ability to influence isn't based on a capital campaign. i don't have to pay folks to get out and protest. i can do it very effectively just online. so my advice to most business owners is prepare for this. talk about it. have the conversation at least internally and decide where you want to come down in terms of a value jew statemestatement. and have a team that can deal with it. you won't be able to avoid this. >> it's a pr crisis, so daniel, we were talking earlier if you could give the example of what happened to delta. >> yeah, delta wanted to stay neutral when after the parkland shootings a few months ago and they announced that they were going to eliminate a discount for nra members because they

want -- they wanted to be neutral and stay away from the topic. and despite their best efforts they got dragged right back in and because people interpreted that neutral signal as a stand in itself. >> right. so what does your research show? how can your research help people make business decisions? >> it starts with the re realization that consumers and also employees, these different stake holders, they have much different expectations than they used to. they used to look to companies for purchasing a product at the quality of the product. now they're asking much more frequently who is the company, what do they stand for and so their expectations have changed a lot. some of these expectations are based on messages that the company is sending themselves so the company is saying, we, you mow, the environment is important to us. we value diversity and then when one of these issues comes up politically it's only natural for a customer to say i saw that

statement of yours about the environment, we just pulled out of the paris agreement, what -- what do you think about it? >> so it's those expectations that are driving a lot of this and that companies are finding that they made some statements in the past that are coming back and they're going to have to honor them. >> so do you think, tom, that if you are not willing to put your money where your mouth is then, then you need to stop standing for something? i mean, as a company now, do you not only need to stand for something in the way you run your own business, but you better be prepared to stand for it politically as well? >> part of what i here daniel saying and what i see in his research is that you have to come up as an organization with a values proposition. what do we stand for and be ready to have your board and your chief executive message that. so whether it's gun control or whether it's a certain aspect of human rights or whether it's protecting animals or whatever it happens to be, you have to be ready to take that stand.

>> right. if you're talking about it publicly. >> yes. >> because surely a lot of founders, ceos, have very strong believes about things right now, and daniel, they are not transferring it to the company and what the company stands for. >> yeah, this is a question that comes up a lot and i think a lot of ceos, they can sometimes be overeager to put their own personal views on the company. i think that's a mistake. i think that the -- if a company does take a stand it's got to come from the organization. it has to come from the desires or either the values or the performance needs of different stake holders. so for example, if it's going to affect service to customers, that's an important aspect. if it's going to affect the performance of the company, then employees are going to be affected. so what ceos have to do is they have to balance what they see as the values of the company with what they see as the performance, you know, how the

performance is going to affect and those are the two main dimensions that ceos have to do but it shouldn't come from their own personal opinions because then it comes off as heavy handed and you'll see a revolt from consumers and employees. >> well, and i think to what you were saying before, tom, it's almost not fair to the organization if this comes out of nowhere. rig right? it has to be we are all on the same page here, this is our mission, join us or not. >> right. >> it's up to you, but because there may be a negative effect on your company. >> of course. on your company, on your employees, on your customers, on your brand. i mean, they actually took the employees to the back to the kitchen and decided what are we going to do? >> which is a great way to do it. >> you have to take a stand. as a ceo to impose strictly your values unilaterally on your customers, on your employees that is the wrong way to go

about this. >> how long -- the companies that you've studied and i'm sure there is quite a range but how long have the effects gone on? so there was a big dip or a big increase in customers because of a stand a company took and then does it stay that way or does everything sort of right itself after a few weeks? >> it -- yeah, it is so hard to untangle the effects of these things. we do see some -- some short term blips, you could say, in stock market prices. some companies, we see some changes in sales, but that's something that is still being sud the died. i -- studied. i'm working with a colleague on that to look at the long-term effects. the jury is still out on how long these effects are. >> and i think you'll have more examples to study as customers become more activists with social media. >> no doubt. >> i would love to continue this discussion, sorts of revisit it again in six months or so because i bet we'll have more

example. >> no doubt. >> thank you. >> who doesn't love a surprise? i know i personally love them and the owners of a notebook company discovered the power of surprising their customers and the impact it had on getting people to talk about their brand. part of the thrill for them is also trying to figure out how to keep the latest surprise a secret from their anxiously awaiting fan base. >> if we made it easy for the word to get out, the word would get out. and so we don't make it easy for the word to get out. >> every year, four times a year, this chicago based company, field notes, goes into full stealth mode. >> i think we've learned that we need -- people in the area will stop by and try to get a peek.

>> and all the while excitement is building for the newest limited editions for their vintage style notebooks. >> everybody loves a surprise and everybody loves being part of the secret of the surprise. >> this tradition started about a decade ago. whether owners realized they wanted to spice things up around the company. >> it would be easy to make a couple of products and keep making those products and selling them, but coming from a design firm background we always worked best when we had a new project to jump into. so we've given ourselves four very important projects a year. >> jim was inspired by an unexpected gift he got. >> aaron one christmas made a bunch of little notebooks by hand, called them field notes and send them out to husbais friends. and he said what do you think about my crazy notebooks i made? >> i said i don't think they're

crazy. we made a short run and whacked together a website quickly and put it on the web and the first day they were available we've made 13 sales. >> since then they've sold millions of field notes because of their limited runs. the element of surprise is now at the core of their company. >> the launch day, that day, that week is tense and nervous and then that day and the next few days are the best. >> it has the field notes loyal fan base chomping at the bit to get the latest designs which have been created with different themes, colors and types of paper in mind. >> we always have something new to talk about with our customer base. it serves a purpose not only as a revenue source but the center piece of our marketing efforts. the print runs have grown from 500 to 40,000 and who knows where we go from here but it's an interesting problem. >> the key to the surprise strategy is taking it seriously.

everyone's told to be careful about what they put in the trash and you'd be hard pressed to find any designs lying around. >> we have one printer who had a company wide meeting to say like, we're working with field notes now and they do these limited editions and if anybody spills the beans, you know, you're gone. >> die hard customers have been known to hunt for clues. a riz sit to headquarters is a chance for people to buy more notebooks and look out for any signs of what design is coming next. >> mostly it's people coming into the store and trying to sneak a question by someone. they'll say i'm going to place an order but i don't want to order if it's coming out next week. i'll say well, we can't say. so you probably should wait. >> we had people guessing urls and things. >> and to keep the internet buzzing jim likes to have a little fun with the field notes fan base. >> people anticipate them and they want to try to figure out what they're doing next and we leave hints around the world

that are indecipherable but it doesn't stop them from trying. >> the real fun happens when customers start getting their packages. >> we try to keep people on their toes. we've been good at surprising people and doing things that they don't expect. and zigging when they think we're going to zag. we don't want to be predictable. we're selling that experience. >> these campaigns are about more than just building relationships with the field notes customers. it also gives the company a chance to work more closely with its retailers. >> we announce to our retailers a couple of days before we announce to the public asking them to keep it quiet. they will get their orders on the day or a couple days after the launch and so they're able to capture on the excitement. >> it's valuable to have them in stock. when the excitement online about the new product they can say we have it, come in and say it. >> there was one time their cover was blown after someone posted a picture of a special

edition online. >> it was a big deal because it's a disappointment for us to have the surprise spoiled and i think for a lot of our customers too. they really want to know what the next edition is but part of them really doesn't and i think they the theatrical nature of the product launch. >> after all of this time, jim and aaron still love the creative process, and, much to the delight of their customers and staff, field notes is still finding ways to raise the bar. >> we have a backlog of ideas. some of them we may do and some we may never do. some people have asked for and some people haven't. it's a big commitment once we commit to an idea, but it's key to us we find something new to learn along the way and communicate it to the customer base. i hope, i think they appreciate that. >> when we come back, how to get funding when you don't have a history of running a company. and why you should actually see your critics as your allies.

it's pretty amazing out there. the world is full of more possibilities than ever before. and american express has your back every step of the way- whether it's the comfort of knowing help is just a call away with global assist. or getting financing to fund your business. no one has your back like american express. so where ever you go. we're right there with you. the powerful backing of american express. don't do business without it. don't live life without it.

my advice, make sure you have great conviction in your idea. you are going to be spending a huge chunk of your life, probably 24/7, thinking about this for many years, so you want to make sure you're ready to do that before you pitch anyone. once you feel that conviction, the second thing i would recommend is your pitch has to be tailored to answer three questions. those three questions are, first, why you, why are you the right person to do this idea? second, why now? whi why is now the right time for this idea to work? and third, how much are you going to make for me as an investor? is this the right business model? is it doing to be a huge company? the investor wants to see great potential return and make sure they are going to deliver those returns to their own investors.

>> we now have the top two tips you need to know to help you grow your business. let's introduce your panel. jennifer is the head of community and groups at facebook and author of "purposeful: are you a manager or a movement starter?" and tom davidson is the founder and ceo of ever fine. good to see you both. >> thanks for having us. >> you've grown your company from zero people, just yourself, to almost 600 people now. >> that's right. >> in the past ten years. congratulations. let's start with you, tom. what's something you've learned you think others should copy or avoid? >> sure. the best thing we've learned over time is to be very authentic and very transparent to the extent that you can. employees these days are coming into companies craving transparency and authenticity. one of the first things we do at everfi when someone joins the company, the first words out of our mouth is stab people in the heart and praise them to back.

what that means, no one wants to go back to high school. no one wants to be in a chitchat culture. people want to be around people where they're doing something important every day, they feel like people are being authentic with them. if you have a problem with somebody, an issue you need to work out, go shut the door, talk to them about it, get it on the table. at the same time, one of the best things i've found you can do is praise people and build them up. that becomes really contagious, something that people rally around. it's big part of our culture at everfi. >> sounds good, but 550 people. does it work? >> it's literally one of those things that every single day it is hand-to-hand combat. you have to reinforce it at every turn. you can't tolerate it when it's not playing out that way. it's also played out even more so with our customers. it's interesting. you get these slogans people put on the walls and the customer's always right or whatever.

often the customer isn't always right. the most authentic and interesting relationships, the best relationships that we have with our customers and our partners are often the ones that have the most friction, the most problems -- >> i want to go back to your employees because that's what you started with. it is all well and good to say don't talk behind people's backs, it is partly -- not human nature, but people feel more comfortable doing that than they feel face-to-face. how do you nip that in the bud? >> first thing is you really embrace -- you have to embrace a culture of discomfort. the best companies in the world are constantly in a state of being uncomfortable. part of that is you're showing up every day, working with people you may not know, and at every turn you have to reinforce it, it won't be tolerated, and cheer it on when people do that and take that on as part of the culture. it has to be instilled in every single part of the organization, has to be done every day.

>> jennifer, you have spent so much time first at change.org, now at facebook, your book, talking about building movements. truly, that's what every company wants to build, right? that's how you get loyalty and get people talking about you and coming back. how do you build a movement? in 20 seconds or less. >> the most successful movement starters are those who push the boundaries, whether they're trying to change the world or the workplace or the neighborhood. and in "purposeful," i describe people who are both entrepreneurs and those who are activists, and the most successful ones use their critics as coaches. so the more successful you become, the more likely you are to encounter criticism. what i've seen is people who do this well are able to separate criticism that's outside of their control, so about your gender or your race or your appearance, from criticism that's about what you're doing or how you're doing it, and one of my favorite phrases here is even the best athletes in the world have coaches. so if we think about it, you

know, serena williams' coach probably doesn't have a better serve than she does, but she has value to add, and if we can look at people who are critics of ours and see them as potential coaches, someone with valuable feedback, they actually can help us get better. >> do you think people are good at this? >> i think that successful movement starters are good at this, and i think we all can be. so there's a story that i tell about a woman named mary lou jepson, who started this organization called one lap topper child. she was trying to build solar-powered light-readable perhaps t laptops for children in the developing world. everybody told her it wasn't possible. she leveraged the naysayers, went out and found those people, went to a big tech company in asia, they told her there's 23 reasons why this idea won't work, and instead of letting that get her down, she said, great, there are 17 of them i know how to solve, i don't know the rest, let me figure those

out, then i'll come to you for more criticism. they helped her debug her product. >> if somebody says no, ask them why, and try to fix it. good to see you both. thank you. >> thank you. >> this week's "your biz" selfie comes from jim seitzer who created a product called the bandbell. it's lighter than steel, which helps weight lifters by putting less strain on their joints. ic pup your phone, take a selfie of you and your business and send it to us at yourbusiness@msnbc.com our tweet it to us. do not forget, we need your name, the name of your business, and its location. thank you so much for joining us today. we really love hearing from you, so if you have any anything to say or a question, an idea for us, send an e-mail to yourbusiness@msnbc.com. also, please check out our

website. it's msnbc.com/yourbusiness. we put up everything we had on the show today and more. and we are on digital and social media as well. check out our podcast. it's called "been there, built that." you can download it for free at apple podcasts or whenever you get your podcasts. we look forward to seeing you next time. remember, we make your business our business. the line between work and life hasn't just blurred. it's gone. that's why you need someone behind you. not just a card. an entire support system. whether visiting the airport lounge to catch up on what's really important. or even using those hard-earned points to squeeze in a little family time.

no one has your back like american express. so no matter where you're going... we're right there with you. the powerful backing of american express. don't do business without it. don't live life without it. hey, everybody. i'm david gura. this morning, crack under pressure. president trump's longtime finance guy now talking to the feds. >> replacing george this week is my chief financial officer allen weisselberg. you think george is tough, wait till you see allen. >> cracking the safe. what's in the "national enquirer's" stash of donald trump stories? we have new details. >> inquiring minds want to know. >> i want to know. >> and crack the code. new reporting on white house adviser who is think this is the president defying his legal team again, ramping up for a pardon. >> i must