headquarters in new york. from s headquarters in new york happy to have you with us. so the judge literally said, where do you want to go? they asked, we're thinking about leaving, your honor. and the judge was like, where? where would you go? that happened in court. we just got in the transcript of the court hearing today in the second federal felony trial of the president's campaign chairman paul manafort. and he is not on trial yet in that second trial. this is pretrial arguing. this is the defense and the prosecution arguing in front of the judge about the logistics how the next paul manafort trial is going to go, how that will unfold. there are two pieces that will

end up being very, very relevant in that trial, depending on how the judge works these things out. and they were both hashed out today in court in front of the judge. the first is that paul manafort's defense team doesn't want his second federal felony trial to be in washington, d.c. paul manafort's defense lawyer today speaking to the judge. mr. wesling. this is one of manafort's defense lawyers. quote, just to give the court notice we will file this week a motion for change of venue. we wanted to just give you notice, your honor, and not be in a situation where that came tomorrow or at the end of the week so you would be surprised by it. so -- and the judge interrupts and says, where do you want to go? mr. westling says, i don't know that i have the answer to that yet, judge. it may be that there is no place. but we feel it is important to make the record on the issue and to brief it for the court. the judge says, all right. i understand that. i believe that the overwhelming

majority of the publicity about this case is national. so you can file what you need to file and i won't prejudge it. but i think the goal of the jury questionnaire is to enable us to find a fair and impartial jury and this jurisdiction meaning federal court in washington, d.c. has had very high profile cases before where we have been able through a jury questionnaire followed by individual voir dire to empanel a jury and i'm likely to believe that that is still possible. clearly if it turns out it's not possible if the end of the questionnaire we can still take action at that time but the judge says, you are sprz entitled to file whatever you want to file. manafort's defense lawyer mr. westling. understood, your honor. thank you. so as the judge says here, she's not pre judging manafort's request to move his next trial out of washington, d.c. but i wouldn't expect paul manafort's defense team has their hopes up

based on that initial response from the judge. i will also say that things did not go particularly well for paul manafort's defense team today when it came to the arguments before this judge, judge amy berman jackson, when they asked her for more time to prepare their case. now, we've talked a few times on the show about prosecutors in this case. prosecutors working for special counsel robert mueller. they filed this list of evidence that they plan to introduce in the next paul manafort trial. and the list is like super long. it has something like 1,500 different items of evidence on it. now, the reason prosecutors have to file that list of evidence is in part so the defense team can object to any of those items potentially being cited in the trial as evidence. well, paul manafort's defense team apparently cannot get it together to file their objections on the evidence for manafort's trial so they've

apparently asked for a number of extensions on this. we now know that the judge does not seem pleased by it. the judge, quote, i was a little surprised when i read the joint pretrial statement that the defendant had voiced no objections whatsoever to any of the government's exhibits. i have now read the pretrial statement in more detail and note that you are planning to do so at a later date. you all have been dealing with these exhibits for months. they just showed up in my chambers this week. i need your objections to the exhibits tomorrow. manafort's defense lawyer says, it's -- >> and the judge interrupts and says, i understand. >> and then he tries again -- it's -- is not going to happen, your honor. i apologize but we got dumped 1,500 exhibits just the other today. 1,500. there's no way. a thousand exhibits, 1,100. the judge then turns to the prosecutor from the special counsel's office at this

point andrew weissmann and the judge says to the prosecutor, "well, are they designated which ones are for impeachment and which ones you're actually planning to introduce at the trial? the prosecutor mr. wise man says yes, yes. the judge says, so how many are you planning to introduce in your case in chief? and mr. wise man, the prosecutor responds every single exhibit that's on that list is something that we intend to offer in our case. there's 1500 pieces of evidence there. that's what we're planning on introducing, your honor. so the prosecutor and the judge have a back and forth about how all these exhibits, how they are important and the prosecutors know what they're going to do with all of it. the judge then turns back to manafort's defense lawyers and she once again gives paul manafort's defense lawyers a little bit of a hard time about one of their decisions which has been a real mystery in this case

so far which is why paul manafort and his defense team elected to go on trial twice. once in virginia and once in washington, d.c. prosecutors from the special counsel's office had offered to consolidate the two cases so he would go on trial once. his legal team said no. this judge in the d.c. case has previously proclaimed herself in court to be basically bewildered by that decision and here today she once again goes back to it. the judge, quote, now i the judge, quote, now i understand, wasn't my decision to move another trial in front of this. wasn't my decision on push that trial up to accommodate that judge's schedule. and you know, it was your decision to push it further. so you're under extraordinary time pressures that don't happen on a daily basis. but we have a pretrial conference scheduled on september 5th and i need to know what objections have you to the prosecutors' exhibits. so what are we going to do? manafort's defense lawyer kevin downing says, i don't know, your honor. we don't have the resources of the u.s. government.

we don't have two trial teams to get ready for two trials. this is us. three here and a paralegal. i don't see how it will get done with all the parts. the judge responds, well, the day you asked for was yesterday. so what are you asking for now? you can't just say i don't know. you haven't moved to continue the trial. which means delay trial. i don't want to continue the trial. we have 120 jurors coming in who have been pre qualified to be available for this period of time. a lot of these documents you've been provided in discovery. you know that. we've been living with them. you've been figuring out what your defense is based on them. i realize, well, i need an answer as to what you think. mr. zehnle, paul manafort's defense lawyer. your honor, i have no idea how you think we'll be able to be prepared to go on trial for september 17th with all of this. the judge. are you asking for a continuance? let's talk about that before --

mr. zehnle -- >> the judge, i will ask you at the end of this hearing. you have to make a proposal to me. you made one in writing and it said yesterday. now you're telling me tomorrow is impossible. what am i supposed to do? i told you when i wanted it. now i'm asking you, when do you want it and you won't even tell me. you need to tell me. manafort's defense lawyer. >> well, i would like to confer with counsel on this. and the judge says all right. and then manafort's defense lawyers says and then i would like -- the judge interrupts and says we'll talk about this at the end of the hearing again. the judge says, we need a schedule. defense lawyer, yes. the judge says, and i'm very reluctant to move the trial. i think we need to get these jurors in here. we need to pick them. so this is judge who is about to their second federal felony trial against campaign chairman paul manafort in washington, d.c. she is plainly exasperated and

maybe even a little surprised that manafort and his defense team made this decision that they wanted to put how many trial twice. it appears from the way the judge has addressed this in court that maybe it is an inconvenience. that she is the second judge to har this major felony case against manafort and timing of her trial had to be adjusted for the other federal judge who went first. it is clear from this transcript, she does not appear to be happen that they want to move this second case out of washington, d.c. and have it somewhere else. apparently that will be lut gate litigated before the end of next week. on this issue of paul manafort's defense team, not being able to handle the requirements of preparing for his second trial, not being able to get it together, well, the judge today in d.c. gave him a very hard time on that. in the end, she did actually give them a little bit of an extension.

so there's another round of fairly vociferous fighting at the end of the hearing over this issue of whether or not the trial will be delayed. manafort's defense lawyers again complain about the pace. about all the work they have to do. quote, as the court is well aware we finished a trial literally a week ago today. we've been doing our best in the time we've had since then to obviously pick up the ball. and the prosecutors came back arguing against with basically, no, you shouldn't get a delay. the date has been set for a long time. the prosecutor andrew wise mane tells the court quote, i can say there home run witness who have been told exactly when the trial is. we have witnesses who have medical issues, that have worked around this. we have witnesses from overseas. i mean, the idea that it is now going to move again, it does create a substantial problem for the government. meaning for the prosecution. the judge weighed both sides of that argument.

sort of impassioned arguments from both the defense and the prosecution on whether or not this case could be delayed. in the end she decided to give a little. the judge. with respect to the trial, while i absolutely understand the position of the office of the special counsel, i also understand the position the defense is in. so i won't give anybody everything that they're seeking. but i'll try to give you a little more breathing room. so this second manafort trial had previously been scheduled to start september 17th but judge amy berman jackson in d.c. today announced they would start picking the jury on that date, on september 17th. but quote openings and the presentation of the evidence will start one week later on september 24th. the judge explained to the prosecution and defense, once we have the jury, we're not going to swear them. we'll tell them to come back on the 24th and then you'll have

the rest of the week to prepare. i think that's really the best i can do under all the circumstances. so that's the transcript from today's hearing. what this means is that the second felony trial of the president's campaign chairman paul manafort will be effectively delayed for about a week even though jury selection will start on the date that we thought the trial would start anyway. i think it is helpful to have that transcript so you can see exactly how that was fought over, how it was decided. it gives us a little more insight than we might have as to the cause of the delay. that is potentially important. last night there was a report in the "wall street journal" that paul manafort and his defense team have been trying to make some sort of a plea deal with prosecutors in the special counsel's office. you get that news about manafort reportedly looking for a deal, followed by the news that manafort's trial is being delayed and you might expect, you might at least wonder if the delay in manafort's case is because of some effort to put together a deal between him and prosecutors. now, it is totally possible that something like that is secretly going on behind the scenes and

we can't see evidence of it in court. from the transcript of what did happen in federal court today, it does just seem like this delay is happening because paul manafort's defense team can't get it together. two federal trials back to back against experienced aggressive prosecutors including the possibility the first trial might not even be over yet. the special counsel's office is due to tell the court in virginia tomorrow whether or not they'll put manafort on trial again. whether they'll retry him on the ten felony counts where the jury was not able to reach a verdict in his case last week. i don't doubt "the wall street journal"'s reporting last night that paul manafort and his team may have talked to the special counsel and his prosecutors about the prospect of some kind of deal to make the charges in the second trial go away. but it doesn't appear that any such negotiations are the reason that manafort's team is trying so hard to slow it down.

the news about this minor delay in paul manafort's next trial is set. there is a new trial date in terms of when opening arguments are going to start. this comes amidst new reporting from the "washington post" the president himself continues to be basically losing his mind over the russia scandal and the legal inquiries, the legal investigations, the prosecutions that have sprunging from that scal dan so far. we'll have a little more on this later in the show. but bottom line, the "washington post" is basically reporting that administration officials have been doing a sort of delicate dance where they've been cajoling the president and consoling the president and basically trying delaying tactics with the president to try to keep the president from firing attorney general jeff sessions in an effort to end the russia investigation and its related prosecutions. as i say, we have more on that in a moment. we have a former very senior justice department official here tonight. he left the justice department

quite recently. he'll be joining us for his first tv interview since leaving government service tonight so we'll talk about that with him and more. the other important thing going on here is that the president, of course, isn't alone in his crusade to try dismantle or roadblock the russia investigation and all of its component parts by going after key personnel and officials who have connections to different parts of the investigation. this is from an almost lyrical portrait more than 20 years ago. it was written in 1996. it was published in the "new york times" about the head of a drug gang in the bronx. in the criminal organization that he ran in the bronx. quote, when the history is written of the drug gangs of new york in the 1980s and the mid 1990s, the kind that wrecked a city's nerves, helped create record high murder rates and made gunfire a common sound in

many neighborhoods, the author of that history might want to spend a chapter on jose reyes or as he was known el feo. he rose to become both dealer and supplier, building an empire. operating in a neighborhood doused in drug money, he was a general in an army. he also devoured books on the mafia. he read machiavelli. he argued gibran's philosophy and he killed managing a hit team that left a trail of rivals dead in manhattan and the bronx. he was so well unsue hated it took several years for authorities to even hear of his existence. two months ago, mr. reyes was convicted of running a drug organization and of killing seven men. this guy's name was jose reyes. they called him el feo which means the ugly one. and it was one of the legendary gang prosecutions of that era.

his whole organization but he himself indicted in 1994. they tried him in federal court in new york city. the judge deliberated for eight days. when they came back they ruled that he was guilty of seven murders which meant, of course, life in prison. the prosecution was led in part by assistant attorney in the southern district of new york who was thought of as a bit of a brainiac. before before law school he had graduated from harvard with a degree in physics. after he helped bring the successful landmark el feo prosecution in new york, he got a big promotion. he was named chief of the violent gangs unit for the whole southern district of new york. it would not be long before the main justice department in d.c. hired him away from the u.s. attorney's office in new york and at main justice, he rose to lead the organized crime and racketeering section for the whole department of justice.

his specialty was international organized crime. to run that section he became known as an intricate manager. he worked not just the fbi but with other law enforcement and intelligence agencies all around the world. he built and maintained the contacts for the benefit of the justice department. and that makes sense. he was leading a team that was prosecuting international organized crime so you need intel and international law enforcement connections. in 2003, he oversaw the team that will indicted the boss of all bosses in the russian mafia. that made big news at the time. i have to admit, the big news made at the time when the justice department indicted the godfather of the russian mafia, it was somewhat limited by the fact nobody could pronounce the name of the guy they just indicted. >> today we have some of the fbi's most wanted for you. this is simon mogilevich.

he is wanted for racketeering, wire and mail fraud and money laundering. we are told he has pock marks on his face and smokes heavily and uses a russian passport. he is considered armed and dangerous. >> i am no better at pronouncing russian names than the next guy. i think considered to be the godfather of the russian mob. he is one of the most wanted men in the world. he has been for years. he is a fugitive from justice. under indictment in the united states. he is on the most wanted list for the fbi but they haven't been able to get him. very few pictures of him even exist. his name has turned up in a couple ways, including the russia investigation involving president trump. a russian born ex-con who worked for a while at the trump organization, who worked with michael cohen in the plan to try to build a trump tower in moscow during presidential campaign. that donald trump lied about.

he has been described as having links to semion molilevich and his org mized crime network. at one point paul manafort pursued what would have been a gigantic real estate deal in new york with some russian linked business partners. that deal never came to pass but it was the subject of litigation in the u.s. and great controversy in ukraine because that would be real estate deal was suspected of being a way for paul manafort to help launder some of the money. that he had earned as head of the russian mob. so semion, this top figure in the russian mafia starring role on the fbi's ten most wanted international fugitives list who periodically leads to headlines

like the one, whenever the fbi starts talking about him again, fbi, mobster more powerful than gotti. the justice department official who actually led the effort to indict him led the effort to bring him to justice in the u.s. courts. that's the same harvard brainiac who had come up from gang duty in new york after prosecuting the drug gangs and el feo. he indicted the head of the russian mafia and played another key role in the case of another bold phased name who has ended up having a star role involving this president and his campaign. i mentioned the 1,500 pieces of evidence that the special counsel's office says they'll use every single one of in their trial for paul manafort in washington, d.c. well, at least a couple of those pieces of evidence appear to explicitly reference a russian oligarch linked to vladimir putin whose name is oleg deripaska. he is apparently going to play a role in the manafort trial in d.c. you will also remember that oleg deripaska's name turned up in

reporting earlier this year when the atlantic magazine and "washington post" turned up e-mails that indicated add while manafort's was running trump's presidential campaign he was simultaneously offering private briefings on the election and the campaign to this russian oligarch. last spring, the "associated press" reported that manafort enters into a $10 million contract a year contract with deripaska to promote the interests of vladimir putin's government around the world. well, in 2006, that same justice department official, the one that started as the gang prosecutor, taking apart those drug gangs in the bronx, the guy who had worked his way to become an expert on transnational organized crime, who led the team that brought the prosecution of the head of the russian mafia, that same official, quote, was part of a group of government officials who revoked the visa of oleg deripaska, a russian billionaire and aluminum

magnate. officials were concerned willder pass ca might try to come to the united states to launder illicit profits through real estate. the russia scandal around this president and particularly the part of it that led to these two criminal trials against the president's campaign chairman, it has an organized crime element to it. it has a russian organized crime element to it. and now as the president mulls pardoning mull manafort and mulls pardoning his white house counsel, as he openly mulls firing the attorney general of the united states in the midst of the manafort prosecution as a way to make the russia investigation all go away, today, republicans in congress spent the entire day going after that justice department official i've been talking about. that specific official who started with the el feo case and the drug gangs in the bronx. who rose to become the head of

organized crime and racketeering at the justice department. who became the justice department's expert on russian organized crime. the guy who indicted the head of the russian mafia. the guy who became the justice department's lead counsel for transnational organized crime and international affairs. the guy who had been part of the team that banned paul manafort's patron and business parton deripaska from doing business with the united states on his alleged ties to organized crime in russia. that justice department official. that guy is named bruce ohr. and he is the object of conspiracy theories and condemnation on right wing media on a 24-hour loop. and today, pro trump republican members of congress summoned bruce ohr to testify behind closed doors before two what republican-led committees and despite the closed door nature of his testimony, those

republicans immediately talked to reporters how bruce ohr was a liar and accuse him of being the rot at the heart of the russia scandal. the "new york times" this weekend profiled his long history in leading american law enforcement efforts against russian organized crime. there is a russian organized crime element to the trump/russia scandal. today house republicans literally came back from their summer vacation early to spend the day trying to destroy bruce ohr. from politico.com, house republicans have fixated on a handful of career and justice department officials as they sought to cast doubt on the legitimacy of the investigators who launched the russia probe. first, the spotlight was on jim comey and andrew mccabe, then peter strzok and lisa page. now republicans intent on proving that political bias is behind the sprawling investigation of president trump's ties to russia. they are now elevating a new bureaucratic department. justice department official bruce ohr.

think went after peter strzok, they went after the top official with the fbi and going after bruce ohr today, they are trying to take out one of american law enforcement's top expers on russian organized crime. and i don't know exactly what these targeted attacks by the white house and congressional republicans will ultimately do to the capabilities of the justice department and the fbi when it comes to fighting things like russian intelligence operations in the united states and russian organized crime and russian money laundering through american real estate. but you can imagine how satisfying a day like today must have been for semion mogilevich. to see bruce ohr get his turn in the barrel like this. you can imagine how delightful that was for the russian mafia. you can imagine how nice a day

it must have been when viewed from the perspective of the kremlin. we'll be right back. he perspect kremlin. we'll be right back. there are roadside attractions. and then there's our world-famous on-road attraction. the 2019 glc, starting at $40,700. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing. that's confident. but it's not kayak confident. kayak searches hundreds of travel and airline sites to find the best flight for me. so i'm more than confident. how's your family? kayak. search one and done.

exbut are you gettinglot enough of their nutrients?, new one a day with nature's medley is the only complete multivitamin with antioxidants from one total serving of fruits and veggies. new from one a day.

[ coughs ] ♪ ♪ [ screams ] ♪ [ laughs ] ♪ whoa, whoa, whoa. your one item would be the name your price tool? it helps people save on car insurance. why wouldn't it save me? why? what would you bring? a boat. huh.

with breaking news. martha mcsally has won the republican nomination for the u.s. senate in the arizona. this will be a marquee race this fall. of course, mcsally the choice of the republican establishment, national republicans looked at her and said thee is their only chance they felt of holding on to this seat currently held by republican jeff flake. he's retiring, not running again. republicans scrambling to hang on. they get the outcome they're looking for here. very interesting when you look at this. a solid margin for mcsally. kelli ward, joe arpaio running far to the right, very much in the trumpian mold. you add up the vote that each one of them got, that's 48% right there. some decimal points involved. almost the same number as mcsally. mcsally wins big tonight. but this is a divided republican party. she benefits. why? because the trump wing of the party was so split between ward and arpaio.

mcsally wins the nomination. the republican establishment is happy they get their candidate. she will face the winner of the democratic primary. it is congresswoman kirstjen sinema setting up two female house members running for the open senate seat in the arizona. early polling one taken a few days ago, sinema by four points over mcsally. arizona has mot elect aid democrat to the senate since 188 but democrats think the demographics of that state are trending in their favor. hillary clinton came within three points of trump there in 2016. they think the climate of the trump midterm might be more favorable. they think they've got a shot. sinema against mcsally. republicans are breathe aga sigh of relief. if it was arpaio or kelli ward they think they would have had no chance at this race. that sets up a match-up this fall. here's another race we'll be talking about this fall. governor's race in florida. it is home to the biggest

surprise tonight one of the biggest surprises of the entire 2018 primary season. his name san drew gillum. not running in first place. he was not running in second place. he was third place or worse in every poll. tonight he has won the democratic nomination for governor of florida. the mayor of tallahassee. he ran to the left. he mobilized progressives in this race and talked about abolishing i.c.e. and impeaching donald trump. gwenn graham a former congresswoman, a her father was a u.s. senator. she fashioned herself more as sort of a traditionally centrist, traditionally electable candidate gillum ran to her left, a lot of energy. he wins the nomination. republicans are already saying he's going to be too far to the left to win florida in the fall. democrats are saying republicans have got an even bigger problem on their hands because of what happened in their primary tonight.

the winner congressman ron desantis endorsed by donald trump. he thanked trump profusely in his speech tonight. he is very much identified with donald trump. he defeated the establishment candidate there adam putnam. sets up desantis against and drew gillum, the democratic nominee in this race. each party get accounting candidate it waned. democrats looking at desantis saying that's a guy we can beat. republicans may be thinking the same thing. we'll see what gives. we'll talk a lot about this november. we say it will be that senate race in florida, the primaries were not competitive tonight. bill nelson, it is now official will square off against account republican governor of florida. we don't have -- the republican governor of florida rick scott, officially nominated tonight. we can show you how that race shapes up heading into it. this is the average of the polls taken there. scott has been slightly ahead of bill nelson, republicans would

badly love to knock off nelson if they could do that. the odds of democrats taking over the senate would go to very, very, very slim. we'll talk about this. two big races in florida this fau, big one in arizona, as well. more rachel maddow right after this. well more rachel maddow right after this ak a trip. and at expedia, we don't think you should be rushed into booking one. that's why we created expedia's add-on advantage. now after booking your flight, you unlock discounts on select hotels right until the day you leave. ♪ add-on advantage. discounted hotel rates when you add on to your trip. only when you book with expedia.

it's a revolution in sleep. the new sleep number 360 smart bed is on sale now, from $899, during sleep number's 'biggest sale of the year'. it senses your movement, and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. it even helps with this. so you wake up ready to put your pedal to the metal. and now, all beds are on sale. save 50% on the new sleep number 360 limited edition smart bed. plus 24-month financing on all beds. only for a limited time. sleep number. proven, quality sleep. now i know you're thinking, "i don't want to hear about insurance." cause let's be honest, nobody likes dealing with insurance, right? which is why esurance hired me, dennis quaid, as their spokesperson because apparently, i'm highly likable.

i like dennis quaid. awww. and they want me to let you know that, cue overdramatic music, they're on a mission to make insurance painless. excuse me, you dropped this. they know it's confusing. i literally have no idea what i'm getting, dennis quaid. that's why they're making it simple, man in cafe. and they know it's expensive. yeah. so they're making it affordable. thank you. you're welcome. that's a prop apple. now, you might not believe any of this since this is a television commercial, but that's why they're being so transparent. anyways. this is the end of the commercial where i walk off into a very dramatic sunset to reveal the new esurance tagline so that you'll remember it. esurance. it's surprisingly painless. so that you'll remember it. california had the worst wildfire season on record. scientists say, our weather is becoming more extreme and we all have to be better prepared. that's why pg&e is adopting new and additional safety precautions to help us monitor and respond

to dangerous weather. hi, i'm allison bagley, a meteorologist with pg&e's community wildfire safety program. we're working now, to enhance our weather forecasting capabilities, building a network of new weather stations to identify when and where extreme wildfire conditions may occur, so we can respond faster and better. we're installing cutting edge technology to provide real-time mapping and tracking of weather patterns. and we use this information in partnership with first responders and california's emergency response systems. to learn more about the community wildfire safety program and how you can help keep your home and community safe, visit pge.com/wildfiresafety joining us for the interview is someone i would very much like you to meet. someone with a great deal of high level experience in a place that is basically news central for us these days.

his name is david loftman. he served in the department of justice under republican and democratic administration. before he stepped down from the justice department in february of this year, he served in the national security division at doj. he was the chief of the counter intelligence and export control section in the national security division. now, in that capacity he oversaw investigations you might have heard of like the hillary clinton e-mail investigation and before special counsel robert mueller was appointed he helped to oversee the investigation into russian meddling in the 2016 election. this is his first television interview since leaving the justice department. thank you very much for making the trip here and thank you for being willing to come on the show. >> good to be with you. >> first, let me ask you about the circumstances under which you left the justice department. you left in february of this year. >> yes. i left on my own steam. i had three eventful years, about 25 years all together of public service. a lot of it at the department.

i felt like i had contributed in any way i could and it was simply time to move on to a new chep t chapter of my career. >> in terms of being able to talk publicly about your experiences, one of the reasons i wanted to talk to you is because i rarely have the opportunity to speak with high ranking officials who may be able to give us insight into how these things we see in the news really affect day to day work of people doing the kind of work that you did on behalf of the country. the "washington post" is breaking yet another story. the president has privately revived the idea of firing attorney general jeff sessions this month. at least twice in the past month, he's vented to white house advisers and his lawyers about the endless investigation of his campaign. he said he needs to fire the attorney general for saddling his presidency with the controversy. we all watched that and we know it is unusual as citizens. within the justice department, how does this unusual pressure from the president feel?

how does it affect the work of the department? >> you have tens of thousands of professionals, men and women working every day on behalf of the country doing their best to conduct fair minded impartial law enforcement investigations in my case the national security realm. they're putting their nose to the grindstone in doing what they can with admissible evidence under the rule of law. in this carnival like atmosphere that affects the rest of us is not impacting them that much. they're really focused on the mission at hand, very mission focused and that's what guiding them through this circumstance. as far as the attorney general goes, that's a horse of a different color. >> political appointee. >> the president is entitled to a cabinet of his choice, men and women he can work with to carry out his agenda. but i can't think of any policy area of the president's agenda that attorney general sessions is not ardently carrying out. so there's only one reason when

you think about it for why the president would want to get rid of jeff sessions. that's to install somebody in his place who would circumscribe or undermine the work of the special counsel's office. and that is a reprehensible prospect for the health of our criminal justice system and our domestic polity. >> would it work if the president decided to take that approach? let's say that the republican-led senate could be persuaded to confirm somebody else without getting any promises from them about how they would treat or respect the special counsel's office or not if that was the president's plan to ice the ag so that the new ag would not be recused and would be overseeing mueller and undermine the probe. would it be an effective tactic? >> we won't fellow until we know. it will come down to the character of the individual installed in that position. that moment of truth where he or she is faced with having to make

a decision at the behest of the president with an ongoing investigation, then we'll know. we'll hope that ha person has the steel and the spine to make the right decision. >> the, you said that the career law enforcement professionals at the justice department, particularly working in national security, people are keeping their nose to the grind stone. they've got work do. they don't let this affect them. we have seen the careers of a number of senior people taken apart by political criticism and pressure. and it is all the circumstances have been slightly different and all the scandals have been bigger or smaller depending on the individuals. we've seen the counter intelligence chief agent. at the fbi. peter strzok. we've seen lisa page who was counsel to the deputy director. we've seen the fbi director himself. today, the justice department official official, bruce ohr, is being pilloried. it seems like those keeping

their nose to the grind stone also have to worry that they'll get the crosshairs trained on them shortly. >> an understandable concern. each of these has its own gestalt specific fact and circumstances in each of those cases. i don't have visibility into all those details. you're raising a larger important concern which is whether the department of justice has a big bull's-eye on its back and more broadly whether the constant repeated denigration of the department of justice and its leadership and the types of officials you described is part after effort to undermine the integrity and independence of one of the most important institutions in our government. that's incredibly worrisome. >> is there a fix for that? >> the fix is to raise the cost to carrying out those kinds of actions. by raising the cost to the people who could lend their voices now to expressing objections to the types of courses of action that we hear about in the offing.

where republican members of congress who control both houses, unless they're retiring and suddenly feel a spurt of loquaciousness and willingness to speak their mind would suddenly start holding accountable those officials including the president who if they're exercising their legal authority, may be stepping close to the edge of overstepping their legal authority or abusing it. whether it is putting pressure on the department to curtail ongoing legitimate investigations or threatening the pardon of individuals for apparently partisan reasons. all those things should be something that puts the country's collective hair on fire. we count on our elected officials to be a bulwark against that kind of abuse of power. they are failing in that task today. >> our guest is dave laufman who is a senior official at the department of justice. the national security division. evers the chief of counter intelligence in the control

section. we'll be back with him right after this. stay with us. 'll be back with ht after this stay with us this is the ocean. just listen. (vo) there's so much we want to show her. we needed a car that would last long enough to see it all. (avo) subaru outback. 98% are still on the road after 10 years. come on mom, let's go! (avo) right now, get 0% apr financing on the 2018 subaru outback.

moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis was intense. my mom's pain from i wondered if she could do the stuff she does for us which is kinda, a lot. and if that pain could mean something worse. joint pain could mean joint damage. enbrel helps relieve joint pain, and helps stop further damage enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma other cancers, nervous system and blood disorders and allergic reactions have occurred.

tell your doctor if you've been someplace where fungal infections are common. or if you're prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for heart failure or if you have persistent fever, bruising, bleeding or paleness. don't start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. since enbrel, my mom's back to being my mom. visit enbrel.com... and use the joint damage simulator to see how joint damage could progress. ask about enbrel. enbrel. fda approved for over 18 years. the kayak explore tool shows you the places you can fly on your budget. so you can be confident you're getting the most bang for your buck. alo-ha. kayak. search one and done.

back with us for the interview is dave laufman. till this february, he served in the national security division of the justice department. he was chief at the counter intelligence and expert control section. as such he oversaw a number of very high profile investigations including the hillary clinton e-mail investigation and before the special counsel was appointed, the investigation into russian meddling in the 2016 election. thank you for staying with us. and i know that a lot of these matters that are ongoing investigations is still are things you can't comment on in terms of your role in them when they were open. i think you were basically in charge of at justice department until february, which is the foreign taeth registration act enforcement. this is something that we're about to see the president's campaign chairman paul manafort go on trial for in his second federal trial in d.c. it has come up in a number of the other prosecutions in guilty pleas around people surrounding the president.

the question i have about this is i understand what the law is, they have to register as a foreign agent if you're acting on behalf of a foreign government but it seems to me like this was never prosecuted before. or very rarely prosecuted before. and now all of a sudden there's this flurry of prosecutions around this issue when it comes to the trump russia scandal. what do you make of that? >> well, it's true there have only been a handful of criminal prosecutions over the last several years. there's reasons why it's hard to charge a criminal violation. some of these are technical turgid in the weeds stuff but you've got to be able to produce admissible evidence there was direction and control of the agent of a foreign principal by the foreign principal. there's challenges in proving willfulness, which is an element of a criminal offense. so there are some structural challenges to proving these cases. i can't speak to why in decades before i arrived on the scene there was only a handful of investigations but i can tell

you when i arrived in late 2014 we did an assessment of whether we were firing on all cylinders with respect to propelling forward investigations of all the areas of our responsibility, whether they be espionage, export control, or sanctions, theft of trade secrets, or investigations and prosecutions of the foreign agent registration act, which was another part of the mosaic of the national security mission of the department of justice. and so we endeavored to make sure that we were in as muscular but appropriate a fashion as possible investigating and holding accountable parties that had an obligation to register and willfully failed to do so. so i think the manafort case that is going to go to trial in september ought to be seen in that larger context. the enforcement is really part of the broader picture of how the department approaches foreign influence operations in the united states today at large, whether it's malign cyber operations or more espionage-like activities like the maria butina case in d.c. or

straight up fara prosecutions. >> david laufman, i appreciate this is the first tv interview you've done since leaving the justice department earlier this year. i hope you'll come back. i feel like your expertise is something that's really unique and it's helpful to hear from you. >> good to be with you. nice to see you. thank you. >> we'll be back. stay with us. [phone ringing] need a change of scenery? the kayak price forecast tool tells you whether to wait or book your flight now. so you can be confident you're getting the best price. giddyup!

kayak. search one and done.

douglas! we're running dangerously low on beans. people love your beans, doug. they love 'em. doooooooooug! you want to go sell some tacos? progressive knows small business makes big demands. doug, where do we get a replacement chili pepper bulb? so we'll design the insurance solution that fits your business. it's a very niche bulb. it's a specialty bulb.

a few weeks after hurricane maria in puerto rico last year this was the view of the commander in chief. >> if you look at a real

catastrophe like katrina and you look at the tremendous, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people that died -- what is your death count as of this moment? 17? >> 16. >> 16 people certified. 16 people versus in the thousands. you can be very proud of all of your people, all of our people working together. 16 versus literally thousands of people. >> it is true that the official death toll from hurricane maria in puerto rico stayed inexplicably in just the double digits for a long time, despite overwhelming anecdotal evidence and multiple academic studies that said the real death toll should be much, much higher. today researchers at george washington university put out a comprehensive study of the deaths caused by hurricane maria. the number they came up with is 2,975. almost 3,000 americans killed in that storm. not 16 people, not 64 people, which was one early official

death toll. but the same number almost exactly as the number of americans who were killed in the 9/11 attacks in 2001. and ultimately, hundreds more people than were killed in hurricane katrina. the death toll of hurricane katrina is approximately 1,800 people. again, this number today from george washington university is 2,975. the governor in puerto rico tonight has ordered the official death toll in puerto rico from the storm to be raised to match the numbers in this new study. no word yet from the white house. we'll be right back. >> tech: at safelite autoglass,

we really pride ourselves on making it easy for you to get your windshield fixed. >> teacher: let's turn in your science papers. >> tech vo: this teacher always puts her students first. >> student: i did mine on volcanoes. >> teacher: you did?! oh, i can't wait to read it. >> tech vo: so when she had auto glass damage... she chose safelite. with safelite, she could see exactly when we'd be there. >> teacher: you must be pascal. >> tech: yes ma'am. >> tech vo: saving her time... [honk, honk] >> kids: bye! >> tech vo: ...so she can save the science project. >> kids: whoa! >> kids vo: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace ♪ on your wild west vacation... guarantee you'll find gold but we can guarantee the best price on that thar rental cabin or any hotel, home, boat, yurt, whatever. ♪ just don't get carried away with the wild west thing. hey guys. get the best price on homes, hotels and so much more. booking.com, booking.yeah

as you know, this is primary night in three states. arizona, oklahoma, florida. we're going to have more on arizona and an important as you know, this is primary night in three states. arizona, oklahoma, florida. we're going to have more on arizona and an important republican senate primary in that state coming up later on msnbc. once polls close and we start getting in results. but the big election headline at this hour is an upset. it's in florida. the mayor of tallahassee, a bernie sanders-backed charismatic progressive candidate named andrew gillum has won the democratic nomination for florida governor in an upset victory. gillum is 39 years old. he never led in any public polls heading into tonight. but he has tonight defeated establishment favor gwen graham, daughter of bob graham. mr. gillum will become the first african-american nominee for governor in that state's history from either party. mr. gillum will now face off in november against trump-backed