so thank you so much. good to see you in person. >> great to be here. >> finally. that will do it for this hour. i'm katy tur in for nicolle wallace. "mtp daily" with the great chuck todd starts right now. chuck, i'm giving it to you two seconds early. >> thank you. that nicolle wallace is in so much debt she had to take a vacation. >> i know. >> that's how much debt she is into the "mtp daily" time slot. if it's wednesday, the stage is set for a 2020 proxy war in the biggest battleground state of them all. good evening, i'm chuck todd here in washington. of course my heart is always in the state of florida, and that's where we'll begin mtp tonight. we begin with a trump clone battling an anti-trump progressive in the ultimate proxy battle for 2020.

i'm talking about the florida gubernatorial race that you have between republican ron desantis and democrat andrew gillum. already this fight is off to a nasty start just as you'd expect from a proxy battle for 2020 in the trump era. on day one of this contest desantis made comments attacking gillum and gillum and his supporters are calling a racial dog whistle. >> the last thing we need to do is to monkey this up by trying to embrace a socialist agenda with huge tax increases and bankrupting the state. >> it's very clear that mr. desantis is taking a page directly from the campaign manual of donald trump. in the handbook of donald trump, they no longer do whistle calls, they're now using full bullhorns. >> so there you go. we'll have more on these comments and their fallout in just a moment. i'm also going to speak with mr. gillum later in the show. folks, there's a reason this november's florida governor's race which delivered shocking

results in last night's primary contest will be viewed as the ultimate proxy battle for 2020 nationwide. as that clip indicates, this is going to be a knockdown, dragout fight between two candidates who essentially are the ultimate proxies for the national party bases, because they forged their campaigns with national trump focused messages. it's all happening in a at a time that is the ultimate proxy for presidential politics, florida, florida, florida. republican voters picked the trump endorsed candidate, ron desantis by a convincing 20-point margin. he ran a campaign with the help of what you might call the fox pac. fox news booked him, we're not sdwro joking here, wait for it, 121 times. you're looking at just a few of those instances. this is after he was a candidate. according to "the washington post" desantis' campaign estimates all those appearances gave them $9.3 million of free florida republican primary air time. the democrat, andrew guillum,

pulled off a shocker by toppling gwen graham who had deep political roots in the state. gillum ran on impeaching trump, abolishing i.c.e. and medicare for all. he was backed by tom steyer, bernie sanders, and the right's favorite financial boogieman, george soros. his nomination will be viewed by many as the ultimate test of electability of progressive democrats at a time when they seem wary about the electability of said progressives. as i mentioned, this fight is already off to a nasty start. fox news read a statement on air saying they don't condone what their frequent guest, ron desantis, said about urging florida voters not to monkey this up by electing gillum. the desantis campaign is saying that it is absurd. i'm joined by the expert in florida politics, none other than politico's mark kacaputo.

he joins donna edwards, michael steele, former rnc chair. welcome all. mr. caputo, wow. man, oh, man, you delivered the final major primary night of the season and florida delivers the big shocker. is it fair to say that both parties picked candidates that the other party says is unelectable? >> yeah, both sides are high fiving and they think the other guy will be easy meat. i suggest that we're really in uncharted territory here. not only did donald trump upend conventional wisdom but florida voters did it again by picking andrew gillum. you have the deepest blue progressive against the reddest trump conservative. forecasting what's going to happen in this race is really difficult. depending on who you talk to, republicans either elated because they think that gillum is just going to fall and be easy meat. and the democrats think that

desantis is kind of a bit of a paper tiger, that he doesn't have much substance behind him. really if you scratch the surface, there's a tremendous amount of republican enthusiasm that we saw in the primary yesterday. they had kind of record turnout. so did the democrats. so kind of trying to figure out who's going to get an edge in this very intense and hyperemotional atmosphere is difficult. >> did gillum win or did the field just kill graham? >> it might be a little bit of everything, but in the end especially down here in miami, miami-dade, broward, duval county, these large urban counties delivered really big margins. in miami when you talked to people that are democrats, a lot of them really loved gillum. the only thing that was holding them back was they would say i don't want to waste my vote. like they wanted their vote to count. >> they didn't -- >> they weren't sure that he could win the nomination or weren't sure that he could win the primary. i usually tell people, look, vote for the person you like.

then i'd probably vote for gillum. i think you saw that calculus happening across the state. this really came as quite as a shock to all of us. the polling did not pick up this sort of movement and these sort of margins that he was able to get in these big urban counties. >> there was some evidence of a surge but i'll admit i was skeptical because there hadn't been a history of african-american voters spiking a turnout in a democrat primary in florida in the past. so it did upend conventional wisdom. >> there hasn't been an african-american candidate like andrew gillum. >> fair point. >> yeah. he really spoke to the party. understand the party here in florida has had five white centrist democrats who have run for governor and always -- it's like, oh, all we have to do is win the middle. republicans, though, say hey look, we're going to win the base and it's republicans who win. looks like democrats might be taking a page from their playbook. >> all right, mark murray, it feels like andrew gillum's victory says a lot more about

2020 democratic politics. what did you learn? >> actually you need to go bold if you want to win. again, it's important to note that andrew gillum bought 34% to gwen graham's 31%. it wasn't like it was a huge margin but the winning percentage was getting about a third of the vote. the democratic strategists that i spoke with, particularly who worked on the 2016 campaign for hillary clinton said we need to stake out those bold colors. we're talking about immigration. yes, we need to abolish and reform i.c.e. yes, we need to talk about impeachment. if you're gwen graham stuck in the middle, you're not going to get the benefit from a lot of voters. so in this trump era, going bold is what a lot of people say is the path for 2020. >> both of you have run for office and had to walk that line between pleasing primary voters and trying to win the middle. you get the conundrum that gwen graham was in on that front because all of the washington smart set would have said, no, no, no, no, don't do it.

your gender will be enough to get you there. well, it wasn't. >> it wasn't. and i think another lesson in this race for andrew gillum is that he decided he was going to run to the ground on issues. i think that you can get that kind of surge and a turnout when you're energizing people and they're enthusiastic. gwen graham ran a very conventional, middle of the road, low-key campaign and so she couldn't generate the enthusiasm that andrew gillum did. i think that he's going to take that into november. >> in fairness, she thought levine and all those other people will split that activist vote. >> she did. and i think the congresswoman is right about how these campaigns set themselves up. but here's the rub. this is a primary. now gillum, who has talked about giving away a whole lot of free stuff as the progressive candidates around the country have begun to do has to translate that into a state that is, despite what you may think of this win, is still center right on a good day. >> i was just going to say,

mark caputo, this is still a state that doesn't like to pay taxes. >> right. >> i know you and i are trying to figure out, okay, with no income tax, how would medicare for all be implemented in the state of florida, for instance, an things like this. this is now -- does the general, though, become about that at all or does ron desantis say, you know what, i got here on the trump train. i'm going to stick to the culture issues and not bother with that? >> i think both candidates when they came out of the primary had an advantage of not being defined too much. so you might, for instance, see ron desantis flip the script and run as the environmental conservative who took on big sugar. >> interesting. >> so don't underestimate their ability to be kind of elastic. now, in gillum's case he has staked out far more positions. i think maybe a way to recast your question is can a democratic if elected pass any of these plans in a republican legislature. the answer to that is no. these guys wouldn't even take, quote unquote, free money to

expand medicaid when the entire business lobby and all the polling showed it would be a good idea. so the idea that you would have medicaid for all or medicare for all is a little difficult to see happening in this state. >> i want to talk about the desantis monkey comment here in a minute. why didn't he get the benefit of the doubt, michael? >> why didn't desantis get the benefit of the doubt? >> the assumption was that he didn't misspeak, that it was 100% a racial dog whistle. is it because he's connected to trump? >> no, it's not because he's connected to trump. it's because it's how white folks talk about black men who are successful. >> let's hear the whole thing just so people can hear it. i think it's important. i hope we have -- yeah, we have a longer version of the bite that gets it exactly what you're saying here. here it is. >> you know, he is an articulate spokesman for those far left views and he's a charismatic candidate. i watched those democrat debates and none of that is my cup of tea, but he performed better than the other people there, so we've got to work hard to make

sure that we continue florida going in a good direction. let's build off the success we've had on governor scott. the last thing we need to do is to monkey this up by trying to embrace a socialist agenda with huge tax increases and bankrupting the state. that is not going to work. that's not going to be good for florida. so i'm going to fight for what i believe in because i think i'm the guy that can lead florida in a good direction. what did you hear? >> i heard that he's articulate, he performs well, he's checking off those boxes. why do you have to describe him that way. >> what makes him articulate? >> chuck, you are an articulate man. you know, you perform well. now that says one thing. >> it doesn't happen to a lot of white candidates. >> doesn't happen to a lot of white candidates, but here's the rub. who uses the term monkey things up? to be honest, i know about a monkey wrench, i've heard of don't monkey around, but i've never heard that term used. >> so you're not giving him the

benefit of the doubt? >> no, i'm not. that came from that space that says to that audience that he was talking to, that fox audience, which is why fox's response is so important. >> it's fascinating. >> that they pushed back on that. was that this is in the land of trump. i took the train, the trump train to stupidland and i'm going in and here we are. >> this is what you get with trump. you get -- you're going to get guilt by association and you're going to be guilty until proven innocent on some of these. >> well, and to michael's point, monkey things up is not a phrase. nobody uses it, it's not a phrase. and so i think with every politician, words matter. and you choose your words. he chose those words. the word articulate, i know, michael, you and i, we're so tired of being described as articulate. >> the nuns taught me how to be articulate. >> and the performance, he's not a performer. he's running to be governor.

>> not only that, he's an actual current elected person. mark caputo, if this campaign gets racialized, you know, what happens in florida? >> well, look at the last election with trump. he generated a significant amount of controversy for his comments about illegal immigrants, which were widely construed as being not just anti-illegal immigrant but anti-immigrant and by many anti-latino. well, he dominated in the state. the white areas of the state, suburban white areas, rural white areas in 2016 came out and voted in force for donald trump. there is a belief among a lot of trump voters that the discussion that we have in the media, you know, the phrase that's just kind of convenient shorthand, is unfair, that they're being victimized for it. i think you could see a white lash with this. that if this conversation continues on this course, don't

be surprised if you start to see ron desantis' support go up with white voters because while florida is an increasingly diverse state, at the same time we're still adding a lot of white people, especially older white conservative retirees, and they don't like this sort of discussion. when they hear it, they usually wind up flocking toward the republican, the conservative manner or at least the anti-progressive side of the aisle. >> republican candidates are not running away from the controversial racial topics. they're sort of running toward it for these midterms for the most part. >> they are, but we've seen a lot of the roulz that don't aploy to president trump, it's not the same thing for ron desantis. also, this is a gift to andrew gillum. talk about someone who is able to get name i.d. after a primary win and all of a sudden something like this happens. name i.d. matters so much. >> mark, before i let you go, andrew gillum, there was a

theory that bill nelson financially really needed gwen graham at the top of the ticket. but there's also a theory that andrew gillum could really get the base out, whether he can win or not. so is bill nelson a happier man today or not? >> i would think bill nelson has a skip in his step not just because andrew gillum is out there and he has shown he can juice the black vote, he gets high margins and a high turnout but so does shawn shaw. the first florida democratic official who is running as the attorney general nominee. so you've got two historic african-american picks on the democratic ticket. that's really good for bill nelson, really good for democrats running statewide. >> and you made the algae bloom nugget, st. lucie county, rick scott -- >> martin. >> martin county where the algae bloom is the worst. >> martin county has been particularly hard hit by the toxic algae scandal or poisoning. what we saw is that rick scott was running against an unknown republican who just runs all the

time. it turns out he got 190,000 votes statewide even though no money was spent. 20% of the republican vote in martin county went to rocky. a lot of people are looking at that result and a lot of that is toxic algae related. >> interesting, something to watch for in that state. it is unique to florida and not the nationalized climate that we're all talking here. always fun to talk with you, sir, thank you. we'll read you every morning in politico. panel, you have to stick around. up ahead it's the democrat who pulled off that surprise upset in florida last night, the newly minted gubernatorial nominee, andrew gillum, will be here next. drew gillum, will be here next got directions to the nightclub here.

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welcome back. as we mentioned earlier, tallahassee mayor andrew gillum won a big upset victory in the gubernatorial primary. the stakes for progressives couldn't be higher. gillum is their chance to show that a progressive message can win in the swingiest of swing states and he would make history if elected. the mayor joins me now. mayor gillum, welcome to "meet the press daily." >> what's up, chuck. go 'canes, man. >> you're a guy that's been in miami, lived in gainesville and mayor of tallahassee. i assume it better be rattlers first. >> it's always rattlers first, let's be clear about that. >> the way i looked at it, the other green and orange in the state of florida. >> that's exactly right, but we love all our florida schools. >> let me start with the controversy today by your opponent, congressman ron desantis. you heard something and you said it was a page from the donald trump campaign manual.

do you want an apology from congressman desantis? do you think you're owed one? >> let me be articulate and clear here, which is we're better than this in florida. i believe the congressman can be better than this. i regret that his mentor in politics is donald trump. but i do believe that the voters of the state of florida are going to reject the politics of division. they believe that we're better than that, which is why i'm going to spend my time the next two plus months getting around the state talking about the issues that matter to everyday voters in this state. kitchen table issues, health care, education, making sure we clean up our environment which our government has been derelict with the republican legislature to do. i think that's how we're going to win in november. but it's clear that the congressman is going to join donald trump in the swamp. we're going to leave them there and continue to press toward a higher mark. >> let me ask you this, you talked about you were going to travel the state, talk about

kitchen table issues. but for what it's worth, you've tweeted about the president ten times this month. you pointed out the last democratic debate, you were the only candidate who called for impeaching the president. that's fine except you're running for governor. what are you going to do as governor to stop donald trump? why do you believe staking out an impeachment position in a gubernatorial race is relevant to voters in the state of florida? >> well, i should first say that the president self-admitted that he obstructed justice by firing jim comey because he wouldn't do his bidding. those were his words. i believe that the president for those reasons has bargained himself into conversation around impeachment. i will tell you, though, it does matter what the governor of the state of florida thinks. it matters that the governor of the state of florida works every day to push pack againback agai divisive rhetoric that this administration has been so

increasingly reliant on as a way to divide this country and to divide my state quite frankly. we're one of the most diverse states in all of america. it matters that the governor is willing to stand up and say, do you want to know something? in the aftermath of hurricane maria, you owe the people of puerto rico, u.s. citizens, better than how you've treated them. because so many of them now call florida home, they need to know that i'll be a governor that stands for them. or if you live in haiti it matters to you what the president has to say and you want to know that your governor will stand up on your behalf. >> the governor of florida has to work with the president of the united states no matter the party and no matter what they think of him. florida is too big of a state to essentially not end up interacting with the federal government. it's not going to be easy with somebody you want to see impeached from office. how would that work? >> well, i'll tell you, first off, i wish that our current governor had taken that advice, right, and the republican

legislature. we had an opportunity to expand medicaid for over 700,000 of the most medically needy people in this state and we said no, leaving $6 billion alone in last year's budget on the table at the federal government to be distributed elsewise. barack obama tried to send us more than $2 billion to build high-speed rail across the i-4 corridor and we said no, thank you. that was not actions taken in the best interests of the people of the state of florida. so current administration has in my opinion acted contrary to what's in the best interests of the people of this state. i can guarantee you this, if donald trump wants to send us money to build a high-speed rail, we're going to build a high-speed rail because it's in the best interests of the people of the state of florida. that does not remove my sentiments around how uniquely unqualified i find him as the president and the great trouble that he now finds himself in that he's created for himself. but that being said, i know that we're going to win this race largely by talking about how it is we pay teachers more, how we make health care more accessible

and affordable. that's what i've been talking about in the primary and that's what i think will carry us over on november 6th. >> you heard mark caputo say it and i've seen it. you can have all the plans in the world as governor but if you don't have a legislature that's going along with you, you're going to issue a lot of press releases, doing a lot of speeches and maybe issuing a lot of vetoes but you're not going to get these plans forward. what's the reality here? what's the straight talk to voters here? >> yeah, no, i think that's fair. while i may have strong divides on various issues with various members of the republican party, i do think there are some areas wherein we can finding cooperation. i think criminal justice reform is one of them. under a republican senate and house, we actually saw some bills come through the legislature that may have been able to aid in some of the reform. for instance, in florida, about 60% of people that are sitting in jails around this state are there without ever having been found guilty of a crime. it's costing this state $880

million roughly a year. i think democrats and republicans who want to save money, who want to be more fiscally responsible, i think we can work together to find those solutions. but i will be clear, i will use the tools of the office of the governor to help to compel the legislature to do the right thing by the people of our state. >> how are you going to pay for some of these programs? let me ask it this way. do you think the state of florida needs an income tax? >> no. what i -- largely because i think everyday people pay their fair share. >> so you would never propose a state income tax. >> i would not propose a state income tax. i am proposing that corporations do pay their fair share. the corporate rate is less than that of alabama and georgia, our neighboring states. we have for too long believed the way the state of florida grows a vibrant economy is by being a cheap date. being a cheap date has not worked for us. we have 44% of the people in this state say that they cannot make ends meet at the end of the month.

many of them working harder than ever and still can't pull down a wage to take care of themselves and their families. when i talk building an economy, i'm talking about jobs with didn't wages, jobs with health benefits, allow people to make enough where they can take a vacation once a year. that shouldn't be too much to ask in one of the wealthiest states in this country. >> president trump and i think ron desantis said the s-word when talking about your ideology or your stances, socialist. i think he used the word socialist today on twitter. what do you make of the label? do you accept it? do you see it as an attack? what do you make of this socialist label that's going to be ascribed to you a lot by your political opponents? >> yeah, well, it shouldn't surprise you. it doesn't surprise me that the president is again creating fairy tales on his twitter feed. >> you do not ascribe to being a socialist? >> no, i'm a democrat. i ran as a democrat, i am a

democrat. the values that i hold are consistent with the values of the democratic party. in fact i think they are the values shared by the majority of floridians. what they don't know, overwhelmingly what voters don't know too often in these elections is where we stand on those positions. i have been unapologetic in my beliefs. i have gone out and whether i'm in red areas or blue areas or purple areas of this state, i have said the same thing. my grandmother put it this way. when you tell the truth all time, you don't have to worry about covering up for lies. so i've tried to be consistent every single place i've gone and i think that's why we made it through this democratic primary. i believe that honesty and earnestness even in places where people don't agree with you 100% is exactly what's going to allow us to win in november. >> a lot of your opponents will bring up and the media has brought up this fbi investigation having to do with something about the tallahassee city government. in fairness, it isn't 100% clear everything about it. you have said you're not a

target. if there are supporters -- should your supporters at all be worried about this? >> yeah, no, they shouldn't. i want my constituents and future constituents to judge me by my record of service. i've been elected 15 years by doing what's right. in fact with regard to the fbi investigation, which i don't believe is of our government but potentially maybe a member in our government. >> gotcha. >> we have tried to do everything that we can to make ourselves available to aid them in that. there's probably no person more interested in bringing this to conclusion and weeding out any wrongdoing. the difference between me and ron desantis is that we welcome the fbi to do their job. he and donald trump have tried to undermine them at every course, even going so far as to suggest some deep state involvement in the fbi, who are doing important work for this country and this state of florida. so the difference is, is that i'm here to aid them in getting

their job done. ron desantis and president trump is here to undermine them. >> final question is do you embrace the pressure of being the progressive test case here? you're running in the most important battleground state in the country that decides who our presidents are. somebody as progressive as you has never been able to succeed statewide in florida. are you accepting this pressure to prove whether progressives can win swing states? >> so, and you know this, chuck, from being from down here, the democrats have lost the last five races consecutively for governor. we've lost the last 20 years. there weren't progressives necessarily running. i'm pleased to have the positions that i hold and have the positions that i do because i believe they're the majority positions of the people for our state. i believe the winning formula is we're going to give voters a reason to vote for something and not against. we're providing a platform that

they can get behind. >> who's going to be your running mate? when are you going to make your decision? >> we're not breaking that news today, man. >> what are you looking for, somebody that balances regionally in the state? what are you looking for? >> you know what, most importantly is you want a lieutenant governor who could be governor. second, i would say just given the challenges that we may face in the legislature, i want someone who has had some experience potentially working with legislatures, working with members of the legislature. i think that's an important value and i think that's something i'll be looking forward to considering as i make a choice for an lg. >> we'll be scanning the list of people who have been in various legislatures. andrew gillum, thanks for coming on and sharing your views, sir. appreciate it. >> thank you, chuck. appreciate it. quick programming note. we also invited florida's gubernatorial nominee, ron desantis on tonight, but his

folks told us he was not available today. we will reach out again soon. up ahead, don mcgahn is leaving the white house. what could his departure mean for jeff sessions and the russia probe? ture mean for jeff sessions and the russia probe? it's kind of like playing your own version of best ball. because here, you can choose any car in the aisle, even if it's a better car class than the one you reserved. so no matter what, you're guaranteed to have a perfect drive. [laughter] (vo) go national. go like a pro. see what i did there?

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because of their first accident. liberty mutual insurance. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty ♪ welcome back. arizona is paying its final tribute to long-time senator john mccain. you're looking live at the arizona state capitol in phoenix. people have been filing past the senator's casket since this afternoon. family members and state leaders attended a private ceremony

earlier today. it was an emotional tribute from arizona lawmakers, past and present, who remember mccain as their dpiguiding force. >> he represented our values all over the world as senator from arizona, and america is stronger for his fierce defense of our values. >> men had followed john mccain into battle, and we knew we could do the same. this man was trusted and he was tested. qualities in increasingly short supply. >> governor ducey says senator mccain was arizona's favorite adopted son and imagining the state without him would be like imagining the state without the grand canyon. tomorrow senator mccain will leave arizona for the last time after a funeral service in north phoenix. he will lie in state at the u.s. capitol on friday before his memorial service at the washington national cathedral saturday and of course the senator will be buried at the u.s. naval academy in annapolis,

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don mcgahn is a really good guy. been with me for a long time, privately before this he represented me. he's been here now it will be almost two years. a lot of affection for don. >> welcome back. that was president trump praising the soon-to-be white house counsel don mcgahn who as the president tweeted today will be leaving this fall. his departure had been rumored for months but this comes after mcgahn cooperated extensively in the mueller investigation. we know the top lawyer will be out soon and now that's renewed speculation the attorney general could be out soon. president trump privately revived the idea of firing attorney general jeff sessions this month. the president's attorneys

believe they have convinced him at least for now not to fire sessions while robert mueller's session is ongoing. back now with me is the panel. mark murray, donna edwards, michael steele. donna edwards, the don mcgahn news, what's interesting is this is one of those cases where the president decided to confirm the "post's" reporting that don mcgahn is leaving. should the president be more fearful of don mcgahn in the white house or outside of the white house. >> i'm not sure it matters. whit. >> i'm not sure it matters he didn't really fire mcgahn, but clearly there was a parting of the ways after don mcgahn provided his testimony and some of that has leaked out. i think the president has to be careful because it seems like everybody who goes and speaks to

the special counsel ends up on a hit list. >> you know, mark, don mcgahn has been the guardrail. if anybody, who has been the most important guardrail if you believe there have been guardrails, because there's been reports that he threatened to resign wheen he wanted to fire mueller once. apparently he was forced to ask sessions to unrecuse himself. he did it. he has been put in positions, he's threatened resignation. and now the guardrail is gone. does this 'em bolden the president? >> the president doesn't like the guardrails. >> no! he doesn't think the lines in the middle of roads, i think. >> sir, i'm sorry you can't do this or you can do that, that drives president trump absolutely crazy i'm being told on what you can do. i'll tell you what don mcgahn is good at and that's all the judicial nominations. we saw senator chuck grassley talk about that.

please keep don mcgahn. to me if you want to step back outside the mueller investigation, the biggest story line is all the turnover that's actually occurred. if the white house is going to be on its second white house counsel, its fourth or fifth communications director, second or third white house press secretary, when you don't have really good people around you, guardrail or not, it's hard to get government to work. >> michael. >> it reminds me of that kid in the crib that figures out how to get out. so you put him down and he's going to get out. that's where trump is. you can go in and say don't do this, don't go there, don't say that, you know, don't tell putin congratulations, whatever. he's going to do whatever he wants to do because that's where he is viscerally. so the fact -- what we're seeing right now, chuck, is washington now getting into capitulation mode where they figure it's easier to give him the runway to do what he wants to do. just extend the runway as much as possible. so you have the senate leadership saying, well, you

know, sessions -- don't leave until after the election. so it's no longer we're going to fight for you all the way till the end, you're not going anywhere. now it's don't leave until after the election. >> he always tests the electric fence. he's been testing it on sessions for 15 months. he was like, hey, i didn't get buzzed. lindsay graham didn't buzz me. >> and now it's all -- you know, it's all out there. i think you see republican after republican saying, well, you know, sessions after the election not even thinking about how they're going to get somebody else confirmed. now there's talk that maybe the president isn't so interested in having someone confirmed. maybe they'll want to put somebody in that is just a place holder. >> i'm guessing he's not going to let rod rosen steep stein be acting attorney general? he'll find another loophole to appoint someone else as acting, which i think he can do. >> and then there will be nobody standing in the way. i think the president wants

that. then the question is depending on what happens november 6, how much rope he really has. >> see, i think that's ultimately what it's all about. the voters are going to dictate how -- how many guardrails there really are. >> and there's actually so much on the line. not only talking about the guardrails, who are the investigators? is it going to be democrats or republicans in charge of the oversight committee. >> here it is, we're voting on the investigators. who do you want to investigate the president. >> and who's going to chair the intel committees. absolutely, all of it is on the table. >> i still ask the question, will the president care? at the end do you really think, as self absorbed as he is -- >> he cares about not being humiliated. >> he cares about survival and not being humiliated, but how is that defined given everything else that we've known and seen so far. for any other political trapeze artist, you know, they would have been splat a lot time ago. for him, survival is defined differently. i think that's what washington

has not been able to adjust to yet. >> well, and he's continued the last several weeks attacking the mueller investigation, trying to undermine it, so that whatever comes out, he then has the ability to still survive that. >> you put it best. finger and not getting shocked. okay, we'll do more of that. >> yes, like that. a competitive race in the most unlikely of places. whoa! i'll finish that in a minute. ♪ that's confident. but it's not kayak confident.

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welcome back. today in "meet the midterms," believe it or not, oklahoma, yes, oklahoma, is going to have a competitive governor's race this fall. businessman kevin stitt won the republican runoff for oklahoma governor. he won with a strategy we're seeing in lots of gop primaries this year. by questioning his opponent's loyalty to president trump. stitt will face drew edmondson. i think he's been in oklahoma politics a quarter century. one poll suggests the race could be close with the democrat actually leading 40-39. obviously within the margin of error. they're hoping to build on voter frustration with budgetary crises under the current republican governor which led to teachers strikes. the outgoing governor, her approval rating is in the single digits and has helped fuel democratic upsets for the

oklahoma leshlggislature. we'll see if democrats can pull off a win statewide in one of the reddest parts of the country. we'll see whether it's possible for a republican candidate to be too conservative for oklahoma. we'll be right back with more "mtp daily." "mtp daily." i couldn't catch my breath. it was the last song of the night. it felt like my heart was skipping beats. they said i had afib. what's afib? i knew that meant i was at a greater risk of stroke. i needed answers. my doctor and i chose xarelto® to help keep me protected from a stroke. once-daily xarelto®, a latest-generation blood thinner significantly lowers the risk of stroke in people with afib not caused by a heart valve problem. warfarin interferes with at least 6 of your body's natural blood-clotting factors. xarelto® is selective, targeting just one critical factor. for afib patients well managed on warfarin, there is limited information on how xarelto® compares in reducing the risk of stroke. don't stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor, as this may increase your risk of stroke. while taking, you may bruise more easily,

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. >> i am as impressed as anyone that my opponent brags that she owns over a hundred pair of shoes. i have over a hundred combat missions served in our country. >> time now for the lid. the panel is back. mark murray, donna edwards, martha steel. that was martha mcsally, she was referring to her democratic opponent. boy, is this going to be a nasty race. it actually feels like a -- it feels like the george h.w. bush campaign of 1988, patriotism,

shoes, combat missions, nothing that has to do with the senate race. >> and on top of that you and i have been talking about the year of the woman for a very long time, the most high profile race in the country, pitting a democratic woman versus a republican nominee. we've talked about florida for so much of this show, but arizona is a really important state, senate race, house races, when we talk about 2020 it will be the presidential battleground. >> donna, the shoe comment. i'm sorry to be asking the one woman on the panel here, but it just sort of -- it just seemed like an odd hit. >> well, you know, i think that this race is going to -- you know, the way it's going to play out you've got the two women, but i think there's going to come a point at which they're going to go this is not about women. and the way that they attack each other may be the way that one wins or loses. because i'm not sure the electorate is quite ready for that kind of fisticuffs from one

woman candidate to another woman candidate. >> it becomes -- you don't think if it gets overly personal you're not sure how that plays? >> i'm not at all. it could turn off a lot of voters. woo we'll see. >> to your point, this is the sweet spot, i'm watching because i want to see if and when they start to campaign like men. because everyone in the public has this general perception of how women candidates, act, perform and campaign. what you saw there in that little shoe comment -- >> what you're saying, more gender neutral now. >> it's going to be interesting to see, to your point, how much the pressures and the dynamics of the race really pushing these female candidates to behave or to perform like a traditional candidate. >> what i find interesting with mcsally, she's tried this the whole time, i give her credit for it, i see what she's trying to do, she's trying to tonally embrace the president, without

substantively embracing the president. i see what she's doing. it could -- you know, that is not a bad -- high wire at least to try to walk. >> it's not, again, immigration on policy level, she has adopted the wall and everything president trump has talked about. >> which might be too conservative for arizona. arizona is not as hard line on some of is this stuff as the base is. >> chuck, you know, senator jeff flake, the person who gave up the seat does matter. there are republicans in the state of arizona who would consider themselves the chamber of commerce republicans in this race. that's who sin macinema is goin after. >> she has more trump and less flake. >> look, jeff trump -- i mean jeff flake today put out a tweet congratulating both of the candidates. he's up for grabs, his people are up for grabs. >> i want to bring up -- i have to say, i am surprised that the john mccain for richard russell

switch is not a done deal. i just thought that that wouldn't be a very difficult thing, and yet there clearly are southern republicans who are afraid of somehow disparaging richard russell. michael steele? >> i would look at the camera and say to my party get a spine and do the right thing. there's no question that embracing a southern segregationist democrat, i might remind you -- >> this is the republican party embracing a democrat. they love the blame the democrats for segregationists. >> everybody likes to run around and talk about what democrats did, what kkk and segregationists, here's your chance to put up and shut up. >> chuck schumer would love to

find things that divide the party. i don't think this is what he intended. >> it's a confederate monument debate in a way. >> it really is. i can't believe the mccain for richard russell thing is going to somehow be controversial. oh, the trump era. mark, donna, michael, thank you very much. happy day after the last big primary. we'll be right back. (man) managing my type 2 diabetes wasn't my top priority.

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tonight. we'll be back tomorrow with more "mtp daily." "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. ari, i'll admit i enjoyed having a midterm campaign met the press daily. >> got your groove. >> a little bit, a little bit, you know, back in the new york groove. >> and what did you learn last night, in a nutshell, before i let you go? >> what did i learn? i learned that all of our politics always revolves around the great state of florida, love it or hate it, we dominate all. i sometimes both love being a floridian and i cringe being a floridian. all of america ends up in florida anyway, so we might as well decide these things. >> it's the snowbird reference. it's wild our esteemed colleague, tim russer, when he said florida, florida, florida, which all political nerds remember, that was true in presidential politics. but as you say in the