saying, i don't really think yellow is my color, though. just when you thought you've seen it all, we have this. all i can say, this is so 2018. that does it for me. i'll be right back here on "the beat" tomorrow night. "hardball," everyone, starts right now. winter is coming. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm steve kornacki in for chris matthews and we are following breaking news tonight. in a brand-new interview with bloomberg news, president trump says he views the mueller probe as, quote, an illegal investigation, and he refuses to say whether he would comply with a subpoena from robert mueller's team. the president also declining to say whether he'll keep his attorney general, jeff sessions, in place beyond the november elections. simply saying, i just would love to have him do a great job. the interview comes against a

rocky legal and political backdrop for trump world, from the michael cohen plea to manafort's conviction to the prospect of republicans potentially losing the house a couple of months from now. trump reacting with another flurry of tweets, more than a dozen of them this time, attacking the russia investigation, the news media, and the department of justice. meanwhile, "the washington post" reports that the trump white house has, quote, neither the staff nor the strategy to handle the potential consequences of a democratic takeover of the house, which would likely set off a wave of congressional investigations and even potentially an impeachment inquiry. quote, trump has not directed his lawyers or his political aides to prepare an action plan, leaving allies to fret that the president does not appreciate the magnitude of what could be in store next year. one trump ally telling "the post," winter is coming. but it's like tumbleweeds rolling down the halls there, nobody's prepared for war. the president also reportedly still trying to find a way to

oust his attorney general, jeff sessions. politico reports that trump is mounting, quote, a furious lobbying campaign against sessions, which has also worn down his lawyers. politico also notes that while trump has been warned that firing sessions with the mueller probe still active might open the door to an obstruction charge, quote, trump's legal team has become increasingly convinced that mueller will make that case, regardless of whether the president fires sessions or leaves him in place. in other words, according to politico's reporting with trump's own lawyers think an obstruction case is imminent. joining me now is phillip rucker, white house bureau chief at "the washington post." donna edwards, a former democratic congressman from maryland. michael steele, former chairman of the rnc. and benjamin wittes, the editor in chief of welfare blog. so ben, let me start with you on where we ended there. reporting from politico suggests that trump's legal team thinks

an obstruction charge is imminent, regardless of anything to do with this sessions issue. what do you make of that? >> i think that the president's legal team, as a criminal matter, i'm sure would argue that the president didn't obstruct justice and would make a defense against that. as a political matter, in the face of a possible impeachment allegation that the president behaved in a way that, you know, impeded the due administration of justice, i think the answer is, duh! right? i mean, you know, they're just facing a certain reality there, that when mueller decides to drop a and line up all the facts that he has amassed, that that is going to be a devastating day for the president. >> and i'm just -- take us through, quickly, this is a mechanical question, but i think it's an important one. the only modern president since watergate here was clinton in '98 with impeachment. and what you had there was the

independent counsel, slightly different than the special counsel, reported back to congress. congress then said, okay, here's the report, we're going to release it, vote to release it publicly. the arrangement is differently now. mueller reports to the doj, correct? does the american people get access to whatever he finds in full detail? >> so we don't know. we don't know what form his report, if, in fact, he is writing a report, which is the assumption that the president's lawyers have been talking about, but is not something we know from mueller himself or his team. if, in fact, he's working on an obstruction report, we don't know what form that will take. we also don't know, will he do what lyon jaworski did during watergate, which is a referral to congress, or will he just write the final report of the type contemplated in the regulation that you're describing, which as you say, would go to the deputy attorney general? so i don't think we know whether it's going to be -- what form it

will take or under what circumstances the public will get to see it. >> and phillip rucker, your reporting was so interesting, because it's trump's folks looking ahead to the potential after november getting control of congress. you get that power, that means you have the power of oversight. it also means, hey, majority rules in the house. if a majority -- if all democrats say they want to impeach, they can impeach. we saw republicans do that to clinton. is this a white house now that's thinking in those terms, in terms of impeachment? >> they're not prepared for that, at all. there's a lot of fear within trump's orbit and including people at the white house and on the legal team that trump is simply not appreciating the magnitude of what could be in store for him, if and when democrats take over the house of representatives. it will be a series of investigations, of subpoenas, of hearings, of document requests and it could include impeachment proceedings and he doesn't have a personal legal team ready to do -- to deal with an impeachment proceeding. but he also doesn't have the infrastructure inside the white house at the council's office and in the communications staff

to deal with the sort of hour-by-hour, day-by-day demands from congress. >> i mean, don edwards, i'm curious, take us inside the thinking of democrats out there, potentially if they get control of the house. i know democratic leaders have been very hesitant to talk about impeachment, but you've got, you know, trump's own lawyer, road rage road rage o-- rudy giuliani out there. what is the appetite for democrats if they get control to move forward with something along those lines? >> i think part of the reason that giuliani and the president's team are talking about impeachment is because they believe that this is something to generate more excitement among their base about the upcoming elections. but i think for democrats, democrats have been really careful about waiting to say, let's get a report first before we decide how it is that we're going to move forward. clearly, the democratic base is ready to move tomorrow or yesterday. but i think the leadership, very

rightly, is waiting to get a report, because they know that that is the kind of report that is going to be out for broader public consumption, so that they have a basis to move forward. and i think that it's going to be really important that whether it's required or not, that report at some level is going to have to be made public because we can't just have the continued speculation through the rest of the president's term. >> and while the president has wanted to fire jeff sessions since he recused himself since the russia probe way back, politico notes that he's also been, quote, griping to aides and lawmakers that the attorney general doesn't have the ivy league pedigree the president prefers. that he can't stand his southern accent, that sessions isn't a capable defender of the president on television, in part because he talks like he has marbles in his mouth, the president has told aides. so a scathing review by the president there, with according to politico. but michael steele, on that issue of jeff sessions and his status, it sounds like in this interview tonight with bloomb g bloomberg, the president is talking about, okay, sessions

stays through the midterm elections. it sounds like that, from what i can understand, republican senators like lindsey graham have been telling him, that's what we need from you, wait until the midterms. but after that, does it sound like sessions are at, but are there going to be republicans there, his old friend in the senate who are going to say, even though, trump is being rash in doing that. >> steve, you raising an interesting point. from the folks i've talked to, the background story is that they've finally got the president to agree to the space thata arthey're all in, which io nothing before election, and get everything done between the election and the new sitting of congress in january. whether republicans have control of that congress, the house specifically, or not. and that is, they'll use that interim to do the types of things that donald trump wants to do, like fire sessions. they think the political ramifications from that won't be as powerful, because of the excitement around the election, if there's a change over in the house, and a lot of other things

that are going on. so it becomes a distraction within a distraction. and they've telegraphed that beforehand, so there's no need for people to get all worked up and excited about it. and that was the hardest thing, was to get the president to that point, where he wouldn't pull the trigger this week or last week, like he wanted to, but wait, instead, until after the election. >> michael, i'm also curious about this. in terms of the election, the message from democrats and you're seeing it in terms of what phillip has in his reporting there, republicans -- folks around trump anticipating democrats really aggressively using that oversight power, if they get control of the house. that's one of the messages from democrats to voters, i think. which is, hey, let's have a check on this president. let's have some folks there to make sure, you know, all the ts are crossed, the is are dotted, or beyond that, potentially. but what is the republican counter to that, that, you know, it seems that there's a history of the american people liking oversight in these midterm elections. >> that's a very difficult argument to make or counterargument, rather, to make. you know, according to phil's

reporting. largely because, republicans sat around and did nothing. if they'd actually showed a modicum of interest in any form of investigation, then they could have had a narrative established to counteract that comment or that argument from democrats. but instead, you had devin nu s nunes, from thoroughly investigating what's going on. the senate, as anyone in this town knows, was the more adult of the two chambers in going forward with that. but the damage had been done in the house. and the damage had been done specifically by certain members in the house, who did not take seriously, at least in terms of how the public looked at it, steve, the investigative opportunity to set the course a little bit differently from where we have it now. >> in those tweets we were talking about earlier, among them, the president today denying several recent reports, including -- indicating that the

white house counsel, don mcgahn, may play a key role in any potential obstruction case. quote, i like don, but he was not responsible for me not firing bob mueller or jeff sessions. so much fake reporting and fake news. and another of trump's denials, the president appeared to say that he decided that mcgahn would go, suggesting the white house counsel did not resign, but was fired. quote, the rigged russia witch hunt did not come into play, even a little bit, with respect to my decision on don mcgahn. however, the white house today told nbc news that the president was referring to the decision to accept mcgahn's resignation, not a decision to fire him. ben, these word games here about what exactly transpired with mcgahn, whether this is a resignation, a forced resignation, an accepted resignation, a firing, is there any significance there in terms of mueller watching this play out? is there any significance to him as to what the exact sequence of events was there? >> so, i'm not sure. i do think mcgahn may be the first person to have a resignation accepted by the

president that he learned he had given when the president tweeted about it. you know, i -- like whether the president fired mcgahn or whether mcgahn was planning to leave and the president just kind of, you know, gave him a shove on twitter, it's really hard to know. i will say this. when the president tweets that mcgahn had nothing to do with his -- you know, did not stop him from firing sessions or mueller, there is one person who knows whether that's true or not or whether it's, as the president says, fake news and fake reporting. and that's bob mueller. because he's spent 30 hours with don mcgahn. and you know, so, the president, if he is not telling the truth about that, there's one very important person that he will not be fooling. and, you know, he can kind of get himself through news cycles by making up facts that are convenient for him at the moment, but that's a very short-term strategy when you're dealing with a highly professional investigation.

>> don, you said something interesting a minute ago, that the democratic base is there right now, when it comes to that issue of impeachment. i wonder, though, as a campaign strategy, are you thinking outside of the democratic base, getting more into swing voters, the folks who, democrats and their ability to win this kind of november depend on. where do you think this rates as an issue to them, as a voting issue? the question of mueller, the investigation, all of the legal questions we've been talking about here. where do you think that rates in terms of when they're going to the voting booth and what they're thinking about? >> i think, you know, it's really clear that democrats across the country and especially in these swing districts are running on the issues that affect people's lives, their health care, their jobs, the economy, what's happening with their children. and i think that this is a subtext of the issue. people want accountability. and they believe that democrats are going to deliver that. but they're also concerned on the ground in their districts about the things that impact their everyday lives. and if democrats are smart, and i believe that they are, they're going to run on those issues and then they're going to take care of business when they're elected

in january. >> all right. donna edwards, michael steele, benjamin wit tetes, phillip ruc, thank you for all joining. and coming up, there is new reporting today by "the new york times" about a plan donald trump and michael cohen hatched to buy all of the dirt that the "national enquirer" collected on trump since the 1980s. plus, senator john mccain's body scheduled to arrive at andrews air force base in just a few moments. the senator was remembered fondly today by senator vice president joe biden. take a listen. >> john's story is the american story. that's not hyperbole. it sounds like -- it's the american story. grounded in respect and decency. basic fairness. the intolerance through the abuse of power. >> and we will look at how the midterm elections are shaping up. a party wrapping itself around trump. a party wrapping itself around the issue of diversity. and finally, let me finish tonight with the roots of trump's attack the media strategy.

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sleep number. proven, quality sleep. welcome back to "hardball." a new bombshell on the cohen front tonight. "the new york times" reporting that president trump and michael cohen had hachd a plan to buy all of the dirt that the "national enquirer" had collected on him, dating as far back as the 1980s. we will get into that in just a moment. t a moment lping cars emit less. making cars lighter, it's a good place to start, advanced oils for those hard-working parts. fuels that go further so drivers pump less. improving efficiency is what we do best. energy lives here.

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this wi-fi is fast. i know! i know! i know! i know! when did brian move back in? brian's back? he doesn't get my room. he's only going to be here for like a week. like a month, tops. oh boy. wi-fi fast enough for the whole family is simple, easy, awesome. in many cultures, young men would stay with their families until their 40's. welcome back to "hardball." we've got new reporting tonight from the "new york times." president trump and michael cohen, according to their reporting, hatched a plan to buy all of the dirt that the "national enquirer" had ecollected on him, dating back as far as the 1980s, according to sources. quote, the move by mr. trump and mr. cohen indicated just how concerned they were about all the information amassed by the company, american media, and its chairman, david pecker, a loyal

trump ally of two decades who has cooperated with investigators. the plan, though, was never finalized. in april, "the new york times" reported that pecker, trump, and cohen had all strategized about how the company could protect the candidate and attack his political enemies. in a tape released to the press back in july, you can hear the president and michael cohen seemingly hinting at the plan. let's listen. >> i need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend, david, you know, so that -- i'm going to do that right away. i've actually come up -- >> give it to me and -- >> and i've spoken to allen weisselberg about how to set the whole thing up with -- >> so what are we going to -- >> -- funding -- yes. and it's all the stuff, all the stuff. because, you never know where that company, never know where he's going to be -- >> maybe he gets hit by a truck. >> correct. i'm all over that. and i've spoke to allen about it. when it comes time for the

financing -- >> wait a sec, what financing? >> we'll have to pay -- >> pay with cash? >> no, no, no, no. i got -- no, no, no. >> check? >> last week, the associated press broke the news that the "national enquirer" had a safe filled with contracts with details about people who had incriminating stories or embarrassing stories about president trump. i'm joined by jim rutenberg who broke this story today. so take us through the idea that the enquirer has all sorts of stuff on trump going back to te 1980s. it's the enquirer. we know the nature of the story they tend to be interested in. and there was almost a deal to transfer that to the trump campaign. when did this happen? what would the terms have been? >> the period we're looking at would have been late august, early september. donald trump and michael cohen -- now michael cohen has implicated then-candidate trump in this -- had already struck a deal with the playboy model karen mcdougal, and the enquirer and metaphorically put it in

that safe. so mr. cohen said mr. trump directed this, hey, you know, this is not good. my secrets are with a third party. a good friend, david pecker, but an act of god may smite him, a truck may strike him, and then my secrets are no longer so safe. so they hatched a plan to do this deal. this deal does not happen. all we know is from the prosecutor's documents last week that the mcdougal deal almost happens, where contracts are signed, money almost changes hands, where they're going to buy her story. >> do we know what the ballpark would have been? what kind of money they were willing to pay for this? >> i don't know the ballpark. the mcdougal story, they were paying $125,000 more. that would have been a loss for the enquirer, because the enquirer bought her story for 150, plus some other things i guess they were going to get to hold on to. so we don't know dollar figure, and we can't say if they got to the point where they knew what that dollar figure would be. >> and did they know -- did the enquirer give them a sort of, here's the library of stuff we

have, take a look, figure out what it's wort to you, or was it a more vague, they've got some stuff, we don't know what it is, but it's better if we have it. >> we only know what we've reported so far. here's the interesting thing, we all may learn a lot more about this if the investigation that led to michael cohen's guilty plea last week keeps going and maybe we'll learn a bit more of what was at stake here. and that could be very important in the investigation. >> the other thing -- i guess this gets to a bigger question, too, about the nature of the relationship between trump and the enquirer. because on the one hand, this is a friend, this is david pecker. the payments in the campaign in 2016 have sort of been presented as, this was pecker, going to keep it from going to the press. he would buy up the story, that would do the trump team a favor. this, though, reads more like, is trump being held up here, essentially? like, hey, we got these goods, it would be a shame if they came out. >> no, i really don't think so. i think they absolutely knew they could trust david pecker, they absolutely did. but there were also some rumors going around that michael cohen apparently was hearing that mr. pecker could leave and try to go -- there was a rumor that he would buy a "time" maybe

separately from ami, that was the rumor they were hearing. >> i guess the question that occurs to me just looking at it, if pecker is a friend, why doesn't he say, hey, guys, i don't want your money, here's everything, go take it and burn it in a field somewhere. >> it's still a business, right? a lot of resources went into that material, long before david pecker was even the chairman. this is decades of stuff that reporters had -- it was a thing of value. so david pecker is known to be a businessman. he is. he's not going to put friendship over business to that degree. so, it looked like an arrangement could have possibly happened. it didn't. but again, those prosecutors will maybe find out a little bit more about what was behind it. >> and jim was alluding to this, but last week, david pecker, of course, was granted immunity by federal prosecutors in order to provide information about michael cohen and president trump's hush money payments to various women. allen weisselberg, the chief financial officer for the trump organization was also granted immunity by federal prosecutors in manhattan. weisselberg has been close to the trump family since the '70s.

bloomberg news asked the president about his cooperation. the president told bloomberg that he 100% didn't feel betrayed, because weisselberg's cooperation was related to a, quote, very limited period of time. that has been my understanding from what the legal experts are saying, the weisselberg cooperation different than the term we normally understand it. >> that's our understanding, as well. he hasn't been fired since the trump organization. i don't think they would keep him around if they thought he betrayed the company or the president. and the other thing is, imagine if he had pleaded the fifth. that was an option, right. if you had the cfo of the trump organization pleading the fifth, that would be a bad look. especially when it's this limited. >> and it's interesting, too, just because trump going back to the 1980s, i mean, he had a relationship with the "national enquirer," going back that far, potentially as a source. >> yeah, amazing. i mean, the reason this story is so fundamentally american and so even palm beach, right, is that the enquirer was in palm beach, mar-a-lago is in palm beach. trump was a staple of their

publication. he created incredible stories. david pecker comes in and cleans it up for donald trump, now long ago, and he's protected by the thing that very much fed off of him. >> all right. jim rutenberg, very interesting reporting there on trump and the enquirer. thank you for joining us. up next, senator john mccain's casket, it will be arriving at andrews air force base any minute now. we'll also take a look at how former vice president joe biden commemorated mccain's life. this is "hardball," where the action is. all," where the action is. to the nightclub here. and if you get lost, just hit me on the old horn. man: tom's my best friend, but ever since he bought a new house... tom: it's a $10 cover? oh, okay. didn't see that on the website. he's been acting more and more like his dad. come on, guys! jump in! the water's fine! tom pritchard. how we doin'? hi, there. tom pritchard. can we get a round of jalapeño poppers for me and the boys, please? i've been saving a lot of money with progressive lately, so... progressive can't protect you from becoming your parents. but we can protect your home and auto when you bundle with us. mom: okay we need to get all your school supplies today...

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they look at him as if john came from another age, that he lived by a different code, an ancient, antiquated code where honor, courage, character, integrity, duty didn't matter, because that was obvious how john lived his life. the truth is, john's code was ageless, is ageless. >> welcome back to "hardball." that, of course, former vice president joe biden. he was speaking this morning about the life, legacy, and character of senator john mccain, during memorial service in mccain's home state of arizona. mccain was said to be heavily involved in the preparations for his own memorial plans, including the people who will take part in the services, from former president obama and george w. bush to an nfl wide receiver, even a russian dissident. according to the "new york

times," mccain had carefully stage managed a four-day celebration of his life, but what was also an unmistakable rebuke to president trump and his agenda. let's bring in tonight's roundtable. tara doudel is a strategist, caitlin huey-burns is a political reporter for real clear politics, and heidi przybyla, a national correspondent for nbc news. tara, i'll start with you. i think back to randall reagan's funeral in 2004 and ronald reagan is a president, the stagecraft of his presidency was a major staple and there was a lot of thought and a lot of preparation into that funeral and that memorial in terms of what reagan's long-term legacy would be. what strikes me about all of the planning we're hearing about here with mccain is, yes, it's about the legacy, in some way, but it's so much about the current moment, as well. >> well, i don't know, fully, what john mccain was thinking, but i'll say this, i think it is absolutely stunning that he did not want donald trump, the sitting president of the united states, who was a member of his

own party, who people forget, even though there were times when he rebuked him publicly, overwhelmingly, he voted for a lot of the measures and policies and laws that trump backed. so the fact that he opted to not have him participate in any way, shape, or form and to have the predecessor, his predecessor, who we know, trump is -- sees as the enemy in many ways, and sees as the person he's trying to remake his own -- remake obama's legacy or take away obama's legacy. the fact that he chose him and chose not to have trump is, i think, stunning. and i think it really speaks to the moment we're in. >> to put yourself back in 2009 and 2010, when mccain had been defeated by obama. i remember there was that health care summit at the white house. i think it was early 2010, mccain came in, and you could -- the tension between them was palpable in the room that day. and i think that was the day that obama looked over at mccain with the cameras rolling and said, john, i won the election. and to flash forward eight years

later, a republican is president and it's obama who will be speaking at mccain's request and a republican who won't be there. >> i forgot what mccain said in that moment, but something like, i'm reminded of that every day. >> and i'm not sure whether or not this event -- it's obvious this has something to do with donald trump. it's obvious this has something to do with the moment. but i don't think it's about barack obama the man or george w. bush the man or joe biden, the man, for that matter. it is about tone and a sort of cosmic sense of what being an american is. i don't think it's about anybody's legacy in particular, or else, it would be a different event. it's very much trying to set the stage for what john mccain wanted this country to be, which is, a country that was very fractious every four years and then forgets it. and moves on, and moves past it, and a united american nation. and that is the tone that i think was set today. hopefully it's maintained over the course of the next couple of days. it's incumbent on the president, i think, the sitting president, to look past this. and so far, he has. i'm thankful for that. >> do you think, caitlin, the

interest that this has generated. we had jaohn kasich on the show the other night, and he was glad, but also surprised by the level of interest in this. do you think that's -- again, we could debate the role that trump plays in the planning of this, but in terms of the interest, how much of it is trump? >> i think the interest is it is such a contrast to the times that we have now. here you have, mccain had planned this ceremony, this funeral, having, you know, wanting to have the two people who denied him the presidency twice speak and honor him, i think, is so different from the politics of this moment. and so i think that's certainly the message that's being put forward. whether this lasts, we haven't seen anything really last in politics in terms of kumbaya moments, but this, i think, you're seeing, you know, a lot of lawmakers wanting this to be more of the style of politics than we're seeing now. but, it is pretty remarkable, just that contrast, that mccain is setting up here. >> and heidi, you're down there in washington, that plane

carrying john mccain's casket is on its way to washington. there will be a memorial service on saturday, i think, tomorrow, his body will lie in state. there'll be a service there too, as i understand it. what's the reaction? the old sort of bipartisan washington establishment, some of those folks are still there, i guess it's very different times right now. but how are they going to receive these events over the next two days? >> well, with i think it's going to be a repeat of what we saw in arizona today, which is that mccain, yes, he very carefully stage managed all of this to make sure that this was not about politics. that this was about john mccain doing from the grave what he believes the current president has been unable to do, which is to remind americans of what has always made us great. which is our diversity, which is our ability to be civil and to put aside our political differences, and be decent and have character, which is the words that you really heard joe biden use a lot, as well as the other speakers.

if you saw the speakers who were chosen, the people who are going to be his pallbearers, they come from all different walks of life. they are of all different ethnicities. you had an nfl african-american legend there. you're going to have a pallbearer who was a russian dissident, who survived several poisonings by putin. he really put a lot of thought into the message there of uniting americans, but also a strong message, as well, and a counterpoint to president trump, by having folks like that russian dissident pallbearer. >> and among those who paid tribute this morning at that memorial service out there in phoenix was the wide receiver for the arizona darncardinals, y fitzgerald. >> he didn't judge individuals based on the color of their skin, their gender, their backgrounds, their political affiliations, or their bank accounts. he evaluated them on the merits of their character and the contents of their hearts.

while some may find our friendship out of the ordinary, it was a perfect example of what made him an iconic figure of american politics and service to fellow man. he celebrated differences. he embraced humiliate, championed what was true and just, and saw people for who they were. >> again, that was larry fitzgerald at that memorial service today in phoenix. the mccain plane is on its way to washington, d.c., right now, expecting it to land any minute. my guests are sticking around. and up next, changing gears as the battle lines are drawn for the midterms. democrats want to be known as the party of diversity, republicans, the party of trump and the new york democratic gubernatorial primary. it's heating up, cuomo versus nixon. we'll talk about that, too, after that heated debate last night. you're watching "hardball." wat. a hotel can make or break a trip. and at expedia, we don't think you should be rushed into booking one. that's why we created expedia's add-on advantage. now after booking your flight, you unlock discounts

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and welcome back to "hardball." what you are looking at on your

screen right there is the plane carrying the body of the late senator john mccain. it has now landed at joint base andrews outside of washington, d.c. that plane took off several hours ago from phoenix, arizona. the late senator's home state. the memorial service held there in phoenix this morning. his body being transported to washington, d.c.. it will lie in state tomorrow in the capitol. there will be a memorial service, as well, on saturday. we will keep an eye on that, when his body comes out of the plane with that delegation, we will show you that. but again, that plane has now landed at joint base andrews. meanwhile, as we continue to monitor that, shifting gears to politics, 2018, and maybe beyond 2008. the florida's governors race between democrat andrew gillum and republican ron desantis, it could offer a proxy battle for 2020, the republican party of donald trump versus the progressive left of the democratic party, with gillum's victory in florida, democrats are now fielding three african-american nominees for governor this november, including stacy abrams in georgia, ben jealous in

maryland. additionally, "the new york times" reports that, quote, record numbers of women are competing in congressional races. elsewhere, muslims, gays, lesbians, and transgender people will be on the ballot. they also note that that diverse cast is teeing up a striking contrast in november, at a time when some are taking their cues from president trump. we are back with tara, noah, caitlin, and heidi. tara, i'm fascinating -- we talked about that a little bit last night. i'm fascinated by this florida governor's race, by the fact, the direction each party is going there, by virtue of these primaries, but also the energy in each one of these parties. the democratic turnout was through the roof. i think it was up 181% from four years ago. the republican turnout is way up off four years ago, too. these are two parties that want the nominees, that want the directions they have. from the democratic standpoint, though, is this a preview of where the national party is going? >> i think so. i think, first of all, i think there's a real misunderstanding

about what the democratic party stands for. and maybe there are some fiss e fissures within the party. but overwhelmingly, most democrats support some sort of medicare for all health care system. most democrats -- >> that's a big change, right? saying single-payer health care just five, ten years ago would get you run out of the party establishment. >> well, i'm not -- so kirsten gillibrand had been talking about it before. a lot of people didn't know that, but i've been in rooms with her, where she's been talking about it for quite a while. kamala harris supports medicare for all. so, yes, it is a shift. but remember, when we were debating the affordable care act, amongst democrats, the overwhelming majority of democrats wanted to have a medicare option, public option, which is not too dissimilar from, with you know, extending health care for everyone. so i think that this is not that much of a shift. and when you look at these issues and poll these issues and look at how president trump even ran on some of these issues, he's reversed course now, but when he was running, he was

talking about having a strong social security, strong medicare. when you look at a lot of these issues, "a," they poll well with the majority of americans, but i think democrats, by and large, are all in agreement. when you see different distinctions is over personality and over who's aligned with whom, but issue wise, democrats are pretty consistent on these issues. we know we want affordable health care. we know we want to strengthen the social savings net, we know we want to raise the minimum wage, these are things we all agree on. >> noah, that report there, those numbers, or just sort of the emerging diversity we're seeing among these democratic candidates, i'm thinking back to that republican autopsy report after 2012, where the republican national committee lost the 2012 -- their candidate lost the 2012 race and they basically said, this new america, this rising, new, more diverse america, we need to start appealing to it now. here we are six years later. there is a republican president now, but in terms of fielding candidates that speak to that, maybe you're not -- are you seeing it at all ?

>> i'm not, and donald trump actually made a significantly smart bet, actually, in suggesting that the autopsy was flawed in that demographic shift. we're not necessarily shifting away from quote/unquote white america, because the hispanic population doesn't always identify as hispanic, when you get two or three generations down, they start identifying as white. tom edsel in "the new york times" has a great column on this today. republicans are going to try to tram this party of diversity as a party of identity. diversity is inclusive, identity is far more polarizing. further, this florida race suggests to us, political observers, that this is the drive run for 2020. in the middle are conservatives. maga takes a little bit from conservatism, but it leaves a lot on the table. progressives, not entirely liberal. they're a little bit farther left than the traditional liberal democratic agenda, the kind of thing you saw in arizona. >> but do you think they need to do something to the republican

party if maga -- i can never tell how it's pronounced, mag-a or ma-ga. but if it loses in florida this year, what republicans look at and say, this is far left -- if it loses, what will that do to the republican party? >> it will probably further radicalize them. further convince them of the existential terror that they face from the democratic side. and the need to get more aggressive in their approach to politics, which is not persuasion politics, it is about polarizing and radicalizing the base. >> caitlin, i'm curious, too, it does seem to me, one way of looking at this florida race is if you're a republican, you see now in the democratic nominee, in the coalition, this is what we think the democratic party is. and if you're a democrat and you look at ron desantis lining up with donald trump, you say, this is what we think -- each base can see in the other side exactly the thing that may be motivates them. >> i think we're seeing that in florida, certainly, and in some of these other races, where you're having, you know, bases go up against each other. and so, i am wondering, you know, it is -- we're in a time now where you're not really

talking about what you want to do as a party. you're talking about the threat of the other party. we're certainly seeing that with republicans now. they could be talking about the good economy. they could be talking about tax cuts, but instead, they're talking about, you know, what a democratic majority would mean. and you're seeing that trickle into all of these different races. we also saw in 2016, a similar dynamic, where you had the energy start to coalesce around donald trump and you had a democratic convention that was celebrating diversity, was very positive, looking forward, the republican convention was different, and voters decided for trump. >> we -- folks at home, you can see this on the left-hand side of your screen. we are watching along with you. you can see, it looks like the preparations are well underway there. the plane has taxied, again, carrying the body of the late senator john mccain. it looks like his family -- that is cindy mccain, yes, coming there down the steps. his family now departing the plane. again, this plane left at about

12:30 phoenix time, 3:30 on the east coast. it left phoenix, has flown across country. now landing at andrews air force base, the late senator's body will be carried off that plane. that is -- that is jim mattis right there, yes, who is greeting her on the tarmac. i think you can see meghan mccain, john mccain's daughter there, as well, again, being greeted. the secretary of defense there walking, his arm with hers, and -- just trying to see, probably doing the same thing at home, folks, but trying to see who else we can see in that picture there. but just to tell you, again, this is kicking off two days of events in the capital, in the nation's capital in washington, d.c. tomorrow, john mccain's body, it is due to lie in state in the capitol. on saturday, there will be that memorial service, and again, former president george w. bush, who ran against and defeated john mccain in the 2000 race for the republican presidential

nomination. he will speak at that memorial service. former president obama, who, of course, ran for the presidency in 2008 and defeated john mccain in that race, he will be there, as well. so again, continuing to look at the pictures here, as that plane, the folks are departing the plane, and again, senator mccain's body, at some point, will also begin its journey to the capitol. heidi przybyla, let me bring you in, as well. and again, in terms o of what we're expecting, obviously, the memorial service on saturday, the more formal event, but tomorrow, his body lying in state there in the, in the capitol. tell us what the scene is going to be like there. >> well, i've heard that it will not only be lawmakers, but in the preview, just average americans who may be able to come into the capitol and pay their respects. again, all of this part of mccain's own scripting, as the to how this would play out. and then, the final burial will

be in annapolis, at the naval academy. and to the previous point, we were discussing about some of the messaging and what mccain's message to the country is in terms of unity, but also, a message to the nation, i think, about the time that we're in. i noticed, steve, it was very notable, that his son is going to give the final reading before he buried from the new testament, which is what "the washington post" called a final call to arms against autocrats. quote, against rulers of the darkness of this world. that is some pretty strong language for the final reading. and i think a very intentional decision by mccain about what the final message would be there. and it, in some ways, also dovetails with what his own words were in a final note that

he sent to americans, warning about the confusion that he thinks, in this moment that we're in, about confusing patriotism with tribalism. and again, so, a very diverse o speakers, i think, to show first of all, a message of unity. but secondly, to warn about the direction that he thinks this country is headed in terms of autocracy. >> we talk about the political career, if there was no political legacy, there would still be one of the most amazing stories of military heroism in the nation's history. >> absolutely. and this notion of real public service, they really don't make them like that anymore. really. >> i think talking back about the interest in this ceremony and in the weekend, i think

inherent is this concern that there won't be a return to this politics, whatever it was. the idea of you can have your battles and grind it out but at the end of the day, there is camaraderie. i think there's a real concern that we won't get back to that. so you're feeling a nostalgia or a lamenting of the politics as it were, knowing that it is so different now. >> we have the bias to look back at the good old days and maybe make them better than they were. i have to account for that. it is striking when you look back at those two mccain presidential campaigns. in 2000, that race against george w. bush, it got heated and ugly. the south carolina primary that year, a lot going on under the radar and mccain took very personally. when george w. bush became president, the first few months before 9/11 of george w. bush's presidency, mccain was voting with the democrats on things. he voted against bush on the tax

cuts. there was talk he might switch to the democratic party. same thing against barack obama in 2008. and yet still that feels different and it does feel like bygone era compared to today. >> we can go back, i can't imagine how far you can go back. 1800, 1968, campaigns will probably always and always have been, but john mccain i think would say very fully is that honestly that america's best days are ahead of it buzz he does not believe that civility is gone. i think heidi is right. this is a message to the president of the united states and in so far as he can accept this message from john mccain, that's good. that's an example of it. i'm sure he doesn't like to be slighted. he likes to speak out. we're able to absorb this message from john mccain from

beyond the grave. and i think it is having a resident effect. at least in this environment. in the environment we're in now in cable news studios. where the partisan atmosphere is always heated. we can engage in that civility. i think it is like that on the street, too. >> do you look at the culture of the capital right now? the tribalism, does having a week the pause and reflect on these bigger questions, these bigger issues we're talking about, do you think once these ceremonies are over, that anything, even in a small way changes? >> i mean, maybe you'll have more colloquialism among the senators. the senate hassal been more colloquial than the house of representatives which faces re-election every two years. i'm not optimistic that it will continue because it is an election cycle. and it is an election cycle that has the potential to change the

direction of the course this nation is currently on. so obviously, we know the republican party understands, if democrats come into power, that will be a big check on donald trump. so i don't see that. and also, the base of the republican party wants the incivility. so i don't see, people are clearly responding to the demand of the party base. and at the end of the day, the ultimate check on both parties are the base of those parties. because in many states, the primary is the final election. >> and again, you can see this at home. that is the casket with senator john mccain. it is being carried now by a military honor guard. you can see on the left-hand side of the screen. that is his daughter meg han. i believe that is the secretary of defense, jim mattis just behind john mccain there. they are watching. this is the scene right now.

we'll just watch along with the rest you right no

[ silence ]

>> all right. so you saw that along with the rest us. the honor guard carrying the casket over to the hearse. they've closed the door. again tomorrow, that casket with john mccain will be, it will lie in state in the capitol and then the funeral service saturday in annapolis. kaitlyn, it is striking to me in politics, a death that is remembered like this one, with this much ceremony, this one national remembrance, presidents get it. ted kennedy got it. there are not many figures short of presidents of the united states who generate this. >> this does feel very presidential and the pomp and the circumstance of it and all, not just people in politics but people outside of it paying tribute. even in arizona, you had

constituents leaning up watching the casket move through, holding american flags and signs of well wishes. we see, we do see it in politics. but it is so different from the environment that we're seeing now. this tribute and farewell and good wishes for someone like mccain who was a war hero. and i think that is, as you were mentioning before, aside from the political career, which was remarkable in and of itself, and what he was able to accomplish, the fact that he was tortured, spent five and a half years in captivity, could have gotten out of it and didn't. it is just a remarkable career and someone who should be honored as the hero that he was. >> i think that's the particular aspect of his biography, as amazing as the entire thing is, that ted chance to get out of some of the worst conditions

imaginable and he chose not to. an interesting scene there on the screen. it looks like some members of the u.s. senate. some members being greeted by cindy mccain. i want to thank heidi przybilla, that's "hardball" for now. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> i need to open up a company for the transfer. >> donald trump's vault of secrets. >> you never know the company. >> new reporting by the "new york times" that michael cohen and donald trump were attempting to buy decades worth of dirt from the "national enquirer." >> i've always that, why didn't the "national enquirer" get the pulitzer prize -- >> then, saying that jeff sessions is safe until the mid-terms as he reportedly