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♪ you've got a friend in jesus ♪ you've got a friend in jesus you have been watching aretha franklin's funeral, a glorious tribute to her life. we will be keeping an eye on it for you and bringing you all of the highlights as they unfold.

the late senator john mccain lying in state today at the capitol where it almost felt he was watching with a smile, snickering at those of us reporters who were caught in the downpour that just opened as his casket was being carried up the capitol steps. in choreographing his own funeral, mccain sending a last message from beyond. his legacy and the american spirit is bigger than the smallness of the trump administration. in a break with protocol, congressional leaders from both parties laid wreaths at his casket. in the audience, president trump's chief of staff, john

kelly, who stood just a few feet from rod rosenstein, the man overseeing robert mueller's investigation. truly, the whole town turned out to say good-bye except a president who is increasingly isolated and lashing out. he did stay silent through the morning and we don't know if he was watching today or if he'll watch tomorrow when two of his predecessors, presidents obama and bush, mccain's one-time political rivals, eulogize him this weekend. the question now is what the end of john mccain's storied life will mean for the country that he so loved. is it going to be a call to reject the tyranny by tweet politics that have so demoralized capitol hill and the country, or is it just a literal funeral for civility? joining me now on set, philip rucker, white house bureau chief for "the washington post," i

yamiche alcindor, evan mcmullen, who ran for president as an independent. thank you all for being here today. phil rucker, i want to start with you because you have spent so much time digging into the psyche of this president, reporting on those around him. what are your sources telling you about how he has reacted to the coverage of senator mccain's funeral today? >> kasie, he doesn't like to be upstaged and he has been for six days, going to be a seventh day tomorrow. he likes to be the center of attention. he's the president of the united states. i think you saw last night at that rally in indiana, he let it all out. he aired his grievances with the media, with the establishment, with the globalists and so forth and really tried to rally his supporters. i think he watches this all unfold and knows his add been

pleading with him not to say anything critical of mccain. >> he seemed to listen this morning. >> he has seemed to listen. with the exception of the things we saw monday with the flag going up and down, he's really been on it's sort of like a tinderbox. you never know what can set him off. i'm a little worried about the funeral when bush and obama are there. >> i think the idea he is going to have to watch two former presidents not only be celebrated while they give this eulogy, but have john mccain's whole family clapping and everyone gather there, pretty much the political establishment, the political elites of both parties gathered in one place to celebrate the fact these are people who had powerful positions in the government, and he is going to be sitting at home watching on a television screen, as we know he does often, i think it's a real recipe for disaster were this president. but i think the fact that he has been on good behavior and the fact that he knows this would be a story, a bad story for his

administration at a time he doesn't need anymore, he'll probably be maybe on his good side. >> shannon, it seems to me that this -- the people that are going to be in attendance at this funeral, this is the kind of event that donald trump always longed to have a legitimate invitation to. he wanted to be part of this kind of a fold, and he's not. >> right. this the old boy from queens thing, always wanting to be embraced by the elites of manhattan, though i would say he has now created such a persona for himself as this washington outsider, this swamp-busting anti-establishment figure that maybe it's not necessarily bad for his brand that he has created if he is not seen among the people that he has really railed against ever since he started running as the swamp and the establishment, but he's also got a lot going on right now too, and i wonder if that has -- there has been enough distracting him to keep him quiet.

there is nafta talks going on right now. this was a big day for nafta. so a lot of times when his aides want to keep him from getting into some dangerous territory on twitter, they distract him, they keep him occupied. they keep him busy. nafta, that would be a good one to keep him busy with this weekend. >> for sure. shannon, i want to play an interview that your news outlook, bloomberg news did with the president talking about the -- what phil had mentioned earlier, that monday incident where the president seems to miss an opportunity to unite the country. they asked him than. take a look. >> we had our disagreements, and they were very strong disagreements. i disagreed with many of the things that i assume he believed in. but with that being said, i respect his service to the country. >> evan mcmullin, as an independent -- independently minded republican, independent, depending on i suppose you have evolved over some time, what do

you make of what the president had to say there? we have always viewed uniting the country as a duty that our presidents have in the wake of tragedy. >> yeah, well, i think the deeper issue here is that we need our leaders to unite us around our values, our fundamental values. and i think what we see between john mccain, between senator mccain and president trump is sort of a contrast of paths for the two country that is personified by each of them, one for each. john mccain representing a path for the country that is based on commitment to our foundational values, that being freedom and equality for all in a system of democracy that's built upon those values, service to a cause higher than one's self, to the country, to our fellow citizens. that's on john mccain's side. on the president's side, it's in my view a virtueless leadership

that is designed more to serve the interests of one person or one group of people. it's about the pursuit of power for the sake of power, the pursuit of wealth for the sake of that. and without some sort of higher cause, without some higher ethos or virtue. and that's what our country is facing today. i believe we are at a crossroads where we need to decide between donald trump's path and the path represented by john mccain. and sadly, now we'll have to choose and pursue hopefully the path represented by john mccain without him. but i think should it be a call to action for all of us. >> well, to that point, it does seem as though republicans are following the path that president trump is laying out. as republicans in congress stare down these midterm elections, they're terrified to cross him for fear they'll get a negative tweet, that their base will not turn out for them. is there any space left in the republican party for people like

john mccain? >> boy, you know, it doesn't seem like there is right now. that's deeply concerning and troubling, and should be for all americans, not just republicans or those of white house have been republicans or voted or contributed to republicans. it should be a concern. right now we have a two-party system, and we need both parties to be healthy. i also am in favor of a healthy independent movement, but i don't want to see either party move away from our foundational values. it's just not good for the country. i don't honestly think there is much room, sadly, in this republican party under donald trump's leadership for someone like mccain, sadly. i think his approval rating among republicans in arizona was quite low. i want to say it was about 20% at his passing. obviously senator flake has found that there is not space for him either for the same reason. >> yep. >> and they're not the only once. there are still some good

elected republicans. you know, i'd like to see them remain in office and hopefully lead the republican party back to a better place. but right now, they are without a strong base of support. and the president still, although it seems to be weakening in recent days, the president still maintains quite a bit of support. >> sure. and to that point, and i want to open this back up to the table here, paul ryan was one of the people today who remembered john mccain. he's actually leaving the stage. let's hear a little bit about what he had to say and we'll talk about it. >> though the highest office eluded him, he obtained what is far more enduring, the abiding affection of his fellow citizens. an example for future generations. >> so paul ryan is somebody who has always valued these same things in flicks politics that john mccain has said he valid,

civility, he believes in politeness, but he hadn't taken a strong stand against the president. he says i'd prefer to do it privately. and he certainly throwing the towel and leaving. that's also true of another number of retiring politicians. we're going to look around next year on january 1 and look around and there's not going to be any republican willing to criticize president trump. >> a number of republicans on capitol hill are on the same boat. they had an opportunity when he became president to stand up for kind of values that john mccain had and stand up for kind of values that they've had throughout their career, and time and again, they sort of stood silently as president trump eroded some of the institutions in this country or used rhetoric that they don't think is appropriate in politics or made decisions, rash decisions in the white house that they would disagree with. so the republican party is left without those figures who can stand up for what john mccain believed. in and it's the reason mccain was such a maverick the last

year and a half, because he was one of the only republican lawmakers on capitol hill who would stand up to trump, who would vote no when he thought it was inappropriate, when he would call him out when he thought it us unamerican or out of step with the values of our country. >> jennifer rubin writes in "the washington post" if he, president trump were not such a cruel and amoral absorbed character, one might pity one of the few republicans who refused to grovel before him, it must infuriate him. >> i think that president trump is obviously, i think, very frustrated with the fact that john mccain, and i would say other figures get this celebration, this idea that people look at him and they look at his legacy and think this is someone who is a great american, even if he made miss stay, even if i disagreed with him, i can say he did his job with dignity. president trump when he became president thought he might get some of the same celebration

that president obama got. what he found instead is even the republicans who maybe publicly don't criticize him, they were the revering him in the way democrats revered president obama. that's why he is always talk about president obama. >> they're afraid of his base, but it's not much more than that. >> he beat out 17 other -- well, 16 other republican challengers. so we have to remember -- >> there is a rather large graveyard. >> there was this crowded field and republican voters looked at donald trump and said this is who we're going to go with. i think the republicans in d.c. are saying, hey, the voters picked this person. we're not going to fight him at every cost. if the people in my district who voted for me also voted for president trump. i think there are some that are actually scared of criticizing the president there are some that are actually doing what their base wants them to do. >> shannon, there was some polling in "the washington post" and abc that shows the vast majorities seem to be turning against the president. his approval, disapproval really incredible negative trend lines for him. is it -- i mean, i guess we'll just have to wait and see.

this is the question i keep asking myself. it seems to me the only way republicans would potentially turn on president trump is if they are so demolished in the midterms that they realize they can't win with him? >> well, that, or if he goes against the things that they put him there for, people have told me one of the breaking points for republicans would be if he was no longer pro-life, if he was no longer advocating for pro-life issues that being one of the big things. >> we don't think that's a realistic possibility. >> right. because he is well aware that's one of the few deal breakers for the republican party. i mean, republicans have been saying to me for over a year now, the republican party is a party of trump. and when you look at despite the negative views of these general polls, still, when you look at his approval rating among republicans, it's 80 and 90%. some people say that's because fewer people are i'd fight as republicans. if you might have been a republican two years ago, and you really disagree with this president, you will not identify yourself as a republican. but, i mean, when you look at

the primaries and the candidates he has endorse and who has won, you can definitely see he is the republican party at this point. >> all right. well, coming up, more volatile than ever. that's how aides are describing donald trump's behavior as his tumultuous summer comes to a close with mounting legal problems, a shrinking legal team and a white house on edge. plus, a new guilty plea. a new cooperating witness in the mueller probe. and with the clock ticking towards the midterm elections, anticipation is building. is the special counsel about to make a big move? and remembering another american legend whose getting a farewell fit for a queen. ♪ ♪ i used so uninspired ♪ i had to face another day, lord made me feel so tired ♪ my mom's pain from

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our justice department and our fbi at the top of it, because inside they have incredible people, but our justice department and our fbi have to start doing their job and doing it right and dogs it now. because people are angry. people are angry. what's happening is a disgrace. and at some point i wanted to stay out, but at some point if

it doesn't straighten out properly, i want them to do their job, he will get involved and i'll get in there if i have to. disgraceful. >> a lot of noise from the president about robert mueller's russia investigation, but new reporting from the associated press suggests he's gone quiet on what he fears the most, the growing lift of one-time allies who are now ensnared in the investigation swirling around him. the ap reports, quote, trump has angrily told confidantes that he feels betrayed by a number of former allies including attorney michael cohen and new engla"nat enquirer" david pecker. and seethed over the pressure on pecker to agree to an immunity deal. and just today a brand-new threat, another guilty plea in an investigation spun off mueller's probe. sam patten, a one-time manafort

ally, pleaded guilty to federal foreign lobbying charges and agreed to cooperate with robert mueller's investigation. today we're learning about this new character in the mueller saga, his ties to russia and an illegal donation he made to the president's inaugural committee. joining us ken dilanian, joyce vance, former u.s. attorney, and chuck rosenberg, also a former u.s. attorney and former fbi official. both are now msnbc contributors. ken dilanian, i want to start with you. who is this guy and what do we know about him and how he fits? >> sam patten is a long-time washington lobbyist and operator who has had a lot of foreign entanglements and foreign clients. on his website, he says it's good to have sam patten in your corner. perhaps a little less good today. he has pleaded guilty to failing to register as a foreign agent. he was lobbying, according to the government, for government of ukraine, or for ukrainian political party that was linked to paul manafort, in fact,

founded by paul manafort, these russian-backed ukrainian interests. patten was arranging some lobbying, some meetings with congressional staff for them in the united states and he had not registered to do. so and that's a felony, and he has admitted that. he also admitted was not charged with but admitted funneling $50,000 to a straw donor to donald trump's inauguration so that a ukrainian, his ukrainian client paid this $50,000 illegally so he and another person, a russian, could attend trump's inauguration. what's interesting about this case, it is was brought brought by the district columbia, not by mueller's office. when it first emerged we were trying to figure out what connection to the mueller investigation. but now it's clear that patten has agreed to cooperate with robert mueller. and that clearly comes out of the manafort investigation of illegal foreign lobbying. and this straw donation to the inauguration. he is very interesting. >> and joyce vance, can i get you to weigh in on this?

why -- why would you -- what would be your motive for organizing illegal donation like this? it seems like there would be an examination that you would be getting manage for your trouble. >> i think that's exactly right. this donation was organized through a strawman. that means that he took someone who was awfully eligible to make a donation or to purchase tickets from the inaugural committee, and then took the purchaser who is illegal, funneled his money, his funds to that straw person and had them make the donation. you don't go to all of that trouble if you don't expect to get something in return. and so that's the question we all have as we read this plea agreement. what were they trying to get in exchange for this donation to the trump inaugural committee? and who were they expecting to get it from? >> really interesting that it's especially someone who is russian. and chuck, to ken's other point, he pointed out that mueller is doing this, it's all very connected. but this was spun off into the

district of columbia. that seems like it echos what he did as well with michael cohen sending cases to the southern district of new york. what's the rationale behind the strategy. >> a couple things. one it may be more sensible for the offices. what folks need to remember, though, kasie, it's one district. a case can go to one district for one purpose and come back for another. this is a great example. the district of columbia handled the patt investigation apparently, but realize head had something that may be valuable to robert mueller and his team. he has agreed to cooperate with everybody, including special counsel. you see this all the time where a district in another part of the country will take a part of the case and kick another part back. >> the one thing, though, does it protect the mueller investigation to have these cases kind of ongoing in different parts of the country if for example, the president took a drastic action?

>> the president did something drastic, and we have every reason to think he might, it does help to have little pieces farmed out here and there. but remember, they can be farmd out subsequently too. there is a body of fax, there is a body of law, and there are investigations that exist, whether they're within the mueller team or within the broader justice department. so does it make sense from a resource standpoint? absolutely. does it make sense perhaps as a prophylactic measure to protect the cases that are ongoing? possibly. but it's one justice department, and they're well equipped to handle various pieces. >> phil rucker, big picture here. this is one small development in the broader investigation. we read a little bit from that ap report, the president seems to be more volatile than he has ever been. that sort of your assessment as somebody who has been covering him for the duration of this campaign? >> he is. he is increasingly agitated about this investigation. these investigations plural, because we've got the sdny case involving michael cohen as well. and he is not prepared for what

could come, according to his allies if democrats were to take over the house or the senate, because he would have a whole rash of new investigations. there would be oversight, the inquiries, there would be subpoenas, hearings, calls for documents and testimony in addition to potential impeachment proceedings. and there is a feeling that he is not only agitated and volatile right now, but that he is not being smart about getting ready in terms of the staffing at the legal level, but also the communications and political level to deal with that onslaught. >> and it strikes me that he perhaps ads on a daily or at least weekly basis potential legal trouble if democrats were to take a chamber of congress. because we know the tweets that he sends out, his volatile rages potentially have long lasting legal implications. >> they definitely do. the fact that his tweets are public, they could be used as part of investigations not just in robert mueller's case, but also in the long list of things that democrats might want to

look into because he is very known for tweeting about something that everyone was wondering about, and then he just confirms it in a tweet that is controversial. the thing i've said is i've interviewed lawyers that are familiar with bill clinton's legal problems and when bill clinton was impeached. the number one thing we wanted bill clinton to do is think about anything other than his impeachment and investigation. we wanted a president that was going to be focused on that we see the president just one of these mornings, there are so many. but there is one morning, i want to sate was wednesday where he tweeted nine times about the russia investigation before 10:00 a.m. so it's very easy to understand that this president is thinking about this russian investigation and it's problematic. >> so he is not distractible? >> but sometimes they say he does these morning tweets to get out all his angst about the russia investigation, and then he can carry forward, through with his day. i think he sees the strategy as working. and while a very smart lawyer like all of you here might say don't tweet, that's bad for you, he is fighting a battle in the court of public relations, not

in a court of law, and his strategy is 100% to discredit this investigation, attack, attack, and cloud people's minds. >> i'm glad you brought this up. this new poll shows the strategy might not be working. >> it's one of our first data points. this 63% of respondents said they supported the mueller investigation. 64% said jeff sessions shouldn't be fired. and 67% said the manafort case was justified. so clearly people -- the giuliani spaghetti at the wall facts are different this week than last week doesn't seem to be sticking. >> and the numbers are even worse than the president's approval rating which means there are voters who approve of president trump's job performance but don't agree with him about mueller or session or manafort. >> all right. >> kasie, i think at the end of the day, facts matter. this manafort juror who was a trump supporter and still believes that part of this investigation was a witch-hunt, nonetheless, when confronted with the massive evidence

against paul manafort was ready to convict him on all counts. i think you're seeing the same thing with the american public writ large as he amasses evidence, continues to file charges. facts matter at the end of the day. >> i am thrilled to hear you say, that ken dilanian, because i was not sure it was true anymore. knock on wood, the american people are sticking with them. ken dilanian, yamiche alcindor, thank you very much coming up next, what robert mueller could have in his back pocket.

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if it seems to you like we're right on the doorstep of another huge development in the mueller investigation, you are not alone. the clock is ticking, as politico explains. quote, the window closes next week for special counsel robert mueller to take any more bombshell actions before midterm election season officially kicks off. and people in the president's orbit and across washington are

watching with heightened anticipation that a final preelection surprise could come soon. so what does robert mueller have that we haven't seen yet? axios put together a list of evidence, documents, and pieces of information that mueller may be privy too, but so far the general public is not. sate very long list, things like tax returns are, bank records, internal trump organization records, more recordings from cohen, cell phone records, perhaps related to that trump tower meeting. white house and campaign e-mails and text messages, contemporaneous notes of meetings with trump, a full reconstruction by michael flynn who made a plea deal of his conversations about russia and subsequent lies. scores of hours of testimony of trump insiders, much of which is unknown to potus and the public. and maybe those "national enquirer" files that the president and michael cohen wanted to buy up. joyce, chuck, phil, and shannon are all still here.

chuck, i just want to get initially your take on this list that axios has put together. do you think that is a comprehensive list? >> not a chance. i think that falls into the category of the known unknowns and the known knowns. every time we see an indictment or a plea agreement out of the mueller team, we read it and say wow, i didn't know that. i never heard of alexander van der zwaan or mr. patten, or i had no idea that cohen did this or the russian military officials did that, every single time. so i presume that we have a tiny fraction of what mueller has. and even trying to guess at what he has that we don't know about i believe is a fool's errand. >> joyce vance, what's your sense of what we may learn of all of these things that mueller has collected? how much of it are we going to see? and what of it do you think might be the most critical piece here? >> well, prosecutors don't have any kind of a political timeline. so i feel pretty sure, chuck can correct me if i'm wrong, that

bob mueller didn't wake up this morning and look down at his watch at the calendar function and say oh, mix, it's almost lai labor day. i need to get a few things out of the way. prosecutors indict cases when they're ready to be indicted. they don't delay them, they don't rush them. so inch what we'll see in the next few weeks, could we see another indictment or a few more informations with cooperation agreements? absolutely we could, but not necessarily. what i don't have a sense of, though, is that we've gotten very close to the core hand that the mueller investigators are holding. i don't think that we're at the inner circle of folks that they're looking at as targets. i think we're still seeing as we've discussed all along this effort to work from the bottom up and the outside in, getting ever closer to the leading defendants, the kingpins in whatever scheme was being executed with russians, assuming that there is some there, there. >> phil rucker, how much is the white house aware of?

and how much do they -- what kind of knowledge do they possess about what mueller has? >> very, very, very little. they have been involved in document production, so they know, you know, what documents out of the white house were provided to mueller, what white house e-mails, for example, white house memos, things like that. they have some visibility into what the testimony has been. that is what white house officials who have been called as witnesses have told mueller because they've debriefed with ty cobb who was the lawyer at the time and others on the team. but beyond that, they really have no convict. they don't know, for example, what michael flynn is providing as a cooperating witness with mueller. they don't know what other information mueller may have subpoenaed from outside the current white house staff, and the president has very little information about -- about what mueller has his hands on. for example, he was said to be surprised that don mcgahn, the white house counsel -- >> i was just going to mention that. >> had 30 hours and had such lengthy discussions with mueller. the president doesn't know everything that mcgahn told

mueller. >> and how much does, that shannon, in your view, play into the president's -- i think you called it earlier in the hour a morning obsession that he has to get out of his system. it's simply not knowing. >> i mean, his lawyers do a good job, or at least they try to calm him down, to tell him everything's going to be okay, everything's going to be okay. you're fine here. but as each one of these new pieces come out and this new name today, sam patten, i was on the phone with rudy giuliani this morning when the headline came out. and i mentioned. i said oh, yeah, it looks like sam patten just had a guilty plea. rudy giuliani said oh, who is that? i don't remember. maybe he is at a different level, but he is someone close to constantine kilimnik who was a big fish, a russian oligarch in all of this. he is the type of person who could have been on the radar. like any lawyer, any defense lawyer, and the president has a team of them beyond just rudy giuliani, they try to know as much as they can. they do really try and do their

due diligence. the lawyers who go in, they have a joint defense agreement, do debrief the president. they definitely will be aware of how many things they don't know. >> joyce vance, we've been hearing over and over again from the president's team that it's time to wrap it up. the president said that several months ago to my colleague, andrea mitchell. what based on your knowledge as a former prosecutor do you sort of deduce about the stage of this investigation? does it appear to be anywhere close to wrapping up? >> well, every criminal target of an investigation wants prosecutors to wrap it up before they have time to indict him or her. that's a constant drumbeat that prosecutors are used to hearing. but the president has been a little bit more vocal and has had a larger platform for making that pitch to prosecutors. so it's become a theme here. and the reality is that the investigation will be over when the prosecutors decide that it's over. congress sets the outer bounds

of time limits for them. there is typically a five-year statute of limitations. so investigators have five years from the time a crime was committed, or the time the last act and a conspiracy was committed to indict the participants in those crimes. and prosecutors will move as quickly as possible. but these are complicated cases involving documents, very intricate financial dealings, a lot of probably phone records and e-mails to go through. that takes a lot of time. and one of the most remarkable features of this investigation is how quickly mueller has been able to work in the first -- i think we're still under 18 months since he came on board. >> sure. so my colleague, garrett haake, actually speaking of the president's legal team, ran into rudy giuliani, who of course has been preparing that rebuttal memo to whatever bob mueller may or may not produce as far as a report on the president. let's take a listen to what mr. giuliani had to say.

>> talk to me a little bit about this idea of a counterreport. you guys mentioned you wanted to put out your own report. that done to undermine mueller's credibility? >> it's done to answer it. it's not going to come out until he puts out a report. of course i think even the president's enemies would imagine that his lawyers would put out a counter to an attack on him. if they don't attack him, no report. >> chuck rosenberg, what's your take on that? he is essentially saying well, if they don't attack the president in the report, we'll keep our mouths shut that seems like the political version of the report wouldn't that be nice? they haven't really shown a capacity for keeping their mouths shut. every time they octuplet, they tend to make matters worse. here is my sense of it there will be some counterreport there will be a rebuttal. it's not going the matter very much. what matters are the facts that are produced through a thorough, professional criminal investigation. and i should add this, kasie. i was on bob mueller's staff in the two years following 9/11.

he is a model of efficiency. he pushes people forward all the time relentlessly. not to be a jerk, but because he wants to get to a result. he wants to get to an answer. so the notion that bob mueller is sort of taking his time for his own purposes is insane. anybody whose worked for the man knows how hard and how fast he pushes to resolve questions. >> very helpful insight. chuck rosenberg, thank you very much. joyce vance, thanks to you as well. coming up next, president trump is finally getting involved in what is shaping up to be one of the most closely watched races. are republicans getting nervous about losing a seat they've held for decades? your mornings were made for better things,

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for senator ted cruz in october. i'm picking the biggest stadium in texas we can find. as you know, ted has my complete and total endorsement. his opponent is a disaster for texas, weak on second amendment crime, border, military, and vets. the fact of the matter is that this race is closer than anyone thought it would be. texas hasn't elected a democrat to statewide office since 1994, but o'rourke is actually within striking distance. one of the reasons why from "the washington post," quote, at nearly every town hall, o'rourke speaks emotionally about the migrant families who venture to the border in hopes of finding safety for their children, something he says any human would do. although the trump administration says it has stopped separating such families, hundreds of children still have not been reunited with a parent. and there is news on this front today. the federal government updated its numbers, and they say almost 500 migrant children are still in custody. 36 days after the court-ordered deadline for reunification, and

22 them are under the age of 5. evan mcmullin is back with us. evan, i'll start with you on this. i think -- i've certainly heard this from my sources, that we may be, if anything, have been underestimating the impact that the separation of families is having on our politics as making it something that is an incredible focus in the midterm elections, especially for suburban moms and others who maybe already were not inclined to stick with this president, but who when they saw this said i simply cannot. >> yeah, absolutely, kasie. i've spent much of this month around, traveling around the country. i've been in iowa and colorado and washington state, you know, as much as many of us are focused on foreign adversaries, attacks against this country and the russia investigation, i think rightly, you know, what a lot of american people are focused on throughout is just

the indecentsy of this administration and its policies, including i think high on the list is this policy of separating families and the failure to reunite these young children. i mean, we're talking about, as i read today, and i think you just mentioned, over 20 children under the age of 5 still being held by the government away from their parents. the number was much larger before. some have been reunited. some are still in captivity, u.s. government captivity, being held away from their parents. my view is that this is just pure evil and indecency that the american people out there who, you know, may not be catching every detail of the mueller investigation, they see this sort of thing, and they reject it. and i think and that's applying in texas too where you see o'rourke's commentary and messaging about those families coming here to seek asylum in the united states. you see them -- you see him

commenting on that, and it resonates in a place like texas. and president trump's message, is a xenophobic message. and those who signed the on to it and presented an anti-immigration message over the years, like senator cruz at some points, that is not resonating. and i think that's very encouraging for our country. >> one thing i will say, shannon, to sort of tie this back to the senate race, one of the things that made me realize or sense that this was going to be a real race was how senator cruz reacted to the migrant crisis. it took him a beat or two to figure it out, but a day or so, a day or two into that crisis, he stepped out and basically broke with the president in a very significant way, proposed legislation, went out in front of cameras that he had previously been avoiding. and that sent a message to me that, hey, this is a real race that he's got going. >> thing are a lot of members of

congress who got the word much quicker than the white house did, probably from the calls from their constituents or the town halls that this might grant crisis was not going away, that this was -- had reached so deep into people's emotions and was resonating and so simple to understand. it wasn't complex, it was a very simple emotional issue. but i think this also points to this idea and maybe texas will remain a red state, but the whole idea that the red state, blue state map is getting redrawn because of demographic shifts. you have democrats in blue states voting for republicans. >> still, it is texas. >> yes, i know. but when you look at a race like this, all of a sudden, yeah, maybe it's competitive. maybe texas isn't a blue state yet but you can see where things are shifting and things this weren't competitive before are now competitive. >> let's talk about beto himself for a second. our colleague, peter hamby, has

a lengthy profile of him in "vanity fair" which suggests even if he loses the senate race, democrats want him to run for president. that he's drawing the kinds of crowds that we missed in the run-up to president trump. >> that video clip of him at that campaign event talking about the nfl protest issue gave a very compelling sort of thoughtful and fairly authentic answer. >> he essentially said i cannot think of anything more american. >> exactly. that's been viewed millions and millions of times on youtube. he's somebody who is breaking through, who's resonating beyond the borders of texas. certainly it helps if he wins this senate race, it's difficult to run for president without any sort of elected office or platform. but if he were to beat ted cruz, trump better watch out because this is a democratic party without any single heir apparent. there's not a particular leader who's catching fire right now. i think the base in the democratic party is so hungry

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>> a farewell fit for a queen. we're watching the celebration of aretha franklin's life. that was the reverend al sharpton, one of dozens of giants who have stood before a crowd of thousands today in detroit to remember the queen of soul. we're still waiting to hear from stevie wonder and jennifer hudson. we will be right back. by how long steak & lobster is back at outback. back by popular demand, steak & lobster starting at $15.99! and time...is limited, so hurry in today. and if you want outback at home, order now! i'm not picking it up. you pick it up!

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my thanks to phil rucker, shannon pettypiece and evan mcmullen. that does it for this hour. i'm kasie hunt for in nicolle wallace. "mtp daily" starts right now. hi, chuck. >> how are you doing? i'm going to be careful in how i say hi, kasie, how are you doing? the last time we got in some twitter trouble so i'll leave it there. >> thanks, chuck. if it's friday, is mueller about to go mum? good evening, i'm chuck todd here in washington. welcome to "mtp daily." a lot of people are bracing for more indictments from mueller's probe or the u.s. attorney's investigation in new york.