that does it for this hour of msnbc live. i'm francis rivera in for alex witt. right now, time for "a.m. joy" with joy reid. looking for ward to your discussion with andrew gillum, jo joy. >> tallahasse mayor andrew gillum will win the democratic nomination for governor of florid

florida. >> >> tonight, as the mayor of florida's capital city -- [ cheers and applause ] -- as the mayor of florida's capital city, i humbly accept the democratic nomination -- [ cheers and applause ] >> good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." that was the emotional moment this past tuesday that shocked the political world when tallahasse mayor andrew gillum, a proud progressive who was outspent by his democratic rivals became florida's first ever african-american nominee for governor. his breakthrough victory made history, but he happens to be the democratic party third african-american nominee for governor in 2018. the other two being stacy abrams in georgia and ben jealous in maryland. and democrats aren't just making

history in primary races in the south. in texas, beto o'rourke is polling so close to ted cruz that ted cruz is counting on the man who accused his father of being in on the jfk assassination and who insulted his wife's looks, one donald j. trump, to save him with a rally. will november be a blue wave and will it bring that wave to the reddest region of the country? joining me is andrew gillum, the democratic nominee for governor of florida and i should add someone who's been on this show as a guest many times. i'm going to brag. we knew first. we already knew you were a star. thank you for being here. good morning. >> joy, i can't thank you enough and you're right. i just want to honestly appreciate you, because you were ahead of the curve. you allowed me on, asked me good questions and allowed me to talk about our vision for the future of the state of florida so i want to extend my appreciation to you for that. >> well, thank you. and what's interesting and because i know you a bit and we've had you on the show and

shoutouts to kevin kate who embraced you, told you -- giving you the news you won, who we also had on as a pundit, we had you on not a you can to about you running for governor -- this is what amused me about the way people talk about you. we had you on a lot after the parkland massacre. you were an earlier supporter of those kids from parkland. you were also an early opponent of the nra. you as mayor of tallahasse took on maryanion hammer, what peopl call the permanent governor of florida, the leader of the nra and you took her on over an issue about guns in city parks. can you tack about how that issue, the issue of guns, has played a role in your political trajectory? >> well, first, joy, let me say that permanent status for marian hammer is coming to a close. i got sued, drug through court

for two years because in my city we refused to repeal an ordnance which simply said you cannot shoot guns in a city park. a radical notion that you can't shoot guns in parks while kids play and families picnic. and that was enough in marion hammer's state and in marion hammer's florida for me to be personally sued, personally fined. the good news is, and you know this for having followed it, we beat them at the circuit court, the appellate court and we wanted to take it to the supreme court because it has to be clear the nra cannot run roughshod over the state of florida. that our families, our schools, our neighborhood and our safety matter more than somebody's ability to carry a gun that can fire off 60 bullets in 60 seconds. if you want that kind of weapon, join the military. so we're going to bring a new order to this state when it comes to common sense laws protecting communities around gun safety. >> florida isn't called the gun shine state for nothing, you had the orlando massacre, the parkland massacre, are you concerned that that issue might be the thing that brings out

voters against you in november? >> well, i've got to tell you, it doesn't diminish the passion i have around it. the fact is just a week after ago in jacksonville, florida, after a gaming activity, video games, a gentleman went out, came back and snuffed out the lives of innocent people. just the day before in duvall county again two high schoolers shot dead at a high school football game. at some point we have to ask ourself what is is reasonable and what is common here? and i believe that we can have common sense gun reform without, quite frankly, disrupting anybody's second amendment rights. saying if you want to carry the power of god at your waist belt, you ought to have a background check. if you're mentally incapacitated, you shouldn't be able to get access to a weapon. if you are a domestic violence abuser you can't have guns that will snuff out the lives of your loved ones and i think there are enough common and decent enough

people that will bring these changes to fruition. >> you are polling ahead which is a surprise. even democrats were grumbling when you started to rise in the poll. they said well, a more traditional candidate is what florida democrats nominate, somebody moderate, somebody more close to issues to the republicans. and at the same time you're being characterized, which i find amusing, that you are a product of bernie sanders, that you came from his revolutionary movement. you did thank him for endorsing you in august. it was helpful to you that he endorsed you. but what do you make of that? tom steyer was in for you in june, injected money to your campaign, black pac and color of change. what do you make of this binary narrative that the media seems snuck that you're either a bernie person or a hillary person? and are you either of those two? >> joy, you know this, it's so much easier to put somebody in a box. i'm not going in anybody's box. i'm a floridian. i care about the issues that confront my state. i believe health care ought to be available and affordable and

accessible for all. i believe that folks ought not be terrified to get sick. that i believe people who work one job ought to be able to make a wage they can live on rather than having to work two and three jobs and i believe we ought to pay teachers what their worth with a public education system that allows for lift for everybody, regardless of where you come from and what side of town you grew up on. appreciate and embrace the support of bernie sanders, especially since i endorsed hillary clinton, campaigned for her, i spoke to hillary and bill clinton earlier this week, i spoke to senator sanders. i think what our candidacy demonstrates is that we can bring together all of the various wings of the democratic party. in fact, i said this throughout the primary and i believe it now. we offered the best opportunity for democrats to win in november because i believe we're going to have the ability to bring out a voter who typically does not part in a midterm election. more black voters, more brown voters, more young voters, more poor voters, more working class white voters who will see themselves better reflected in

me and recognize that we are the candidate willing to fight on behalf of everybody in this state, not just the wealthy and the well-heeled and that's how we'll win in november. >> as somebody who worked in politics in florida a little bit and i know the state a little bit, democrats have had a really hard time getting black voters, quite frankly, to come out in large numbers, other than the two obama races when people lined up around the block, and getting young voters to come out. that's been really the difficulty that democrats have had. you are not only -- you're not the only african-american on that ballot in november. sean shaw, who's also the nominee for attorney general, also on that ballot. do you think that this might be the year in the post- alabama world that black voters say we're going to vote midterms as well as presidential races? >> we're absolutely counting on black voters and the coalition of voters who do believe in what we believe in. joy, you know this, we have the issue of felons rights restoration. 1.7 million in this state who

had their rights permanently taken away. i think that will be a driver in this election. the truth is is that we're going campaign across this state. we are not going to treat the state of florida as if it's the electoral college. you don't win one county and lose another. the one who wins is the one who gets one more vote than the next person which is why the northern panhandle is going to matter. they're going to see their nominee for governor moving across this state because i believe the way we'll win is by getting that one more vote. and that's what's going to put us over and if there are republicans who are sick again of their kids being tested to death, tested don't tell us what they know but how well they take a test, if they're sick of being terrified of being one illness away from bankruptcy, i'm your candidate. and i believe that the full force of that coming together is what's going to result in us not only winning this state but i think winning decisively on november 6. >> if you win by the margin you're polling at now, that would be quite revolutionary for florida. florida is a tough state to win

in for a democrat. obviously, the obvious is that you are an african-american man. you know what that means in terms of just walking around in that black body but also in running for office and being in politics, to be blunt. you've already had the monkeyed up controversy that happened with your opponent ron desantis who i believe has not yet apologized for that, if he plans to. some people are saying you should apologize to him or people should apologize to him for bringing it up. you've had a robocall, a racist robocall, the "new york times" reporting in the audio one robocall placed friday and obtained by the "new york times" a man pretending to be mr. gillum can be heard talking in the exaggerated accent of a minstrel performer, which i'm not going to do. he then talks for a little over minute about mud huts and unfair policing practices and asks repeatedly for the listeners vote in the background are the sounds of drums and monkeys. the recording, reported on friday by the tallahasse "democrat" ends that it was paid

byfy road to power, an idaho group. what is your campaign's response to that kind of messaging? >> well, first, we do call on ron desantis to escalate this dialogue to a level where frankly we can have a common and decent exchange of ideas. i'm still waiting for a serious opponent on the right to show up in the form of ron desantis to talk about the issued that confront regular floridians h.'h.. he's gotten accustomed to calling names. he's a harvard educated man so he knows the u.s. vocabulary but he chooses to embrace dog whistles and bullhorns. what i want to talk about with mr. desantis is his efforts to undermine the health care system. his votes to give more money away to the wealthiest corporations in this country thereby taking money away from regular hard-working everyday

floridians. i want to talk about his efforts to prevent women from getting access to contraception. i want to talk to him about what he plans to do to create this into an economy where people can work one job instead of multiple jobs. i won't follow him and donald trump down into the swamp of politics. my grandmother used to say when you wrestle with pigs you both get dirty but the pig likes it. i'm not going to be able to compete and win in a pig fight with these guys. so my job, and frankly the florida voters deserve this, is a candidate for governor who is going to rise above that and talk about the issues are important and mr. desantis also has to be careful with his rhetoric because we know in the wake of charlottesville and otherwise that that kind of rhetoric can be weaponized and become dangerous for folks so he is the nominee of the republican party. he has to act like it. this is an important job, a serious job for serious people and i'm calling on him to be a

serious candidate for governor. i deserve that in an opponent and the people of florida deseven that when they go to the ballot box. >> has he agreed to debate you? >> not so far as i've heard. he's not talking to anybody but fox news. but i look forward to talking about the issue. >> if we invited you back on the show where mr. desantis to debate him on the show, would you be open to doing that? >> joy, all day long. you name the day. >> let me extend that invitation. ron desantis, i would love to have you on with andrew gillum to talk issue. there is the signal and the noise in politics and we're already getting oppo research being shared about you is the fbi investigation to the city of tallahas tallahasse. that is probably going to be a part of your opponent's campaign. what is your response to those headlines? >> let me be very clear. one i am not under fbi

investigation and neither is tallahasse. we have been aiding the fbi in their probe into what i believe are the actions of a limited view and we want to be as open and transparent every step along the way and if you look at my steps as mayor, we've created the opportunity for people to search the documents we've provided to the fbi and make them available. contrast that to how mr. detan sis and donald trump deal with the fbi. they try to undermine them and get in the way, every step along the way, even trump going so far as to suggest a deep state conspiracy to undermine his presidency. that is irresponsible and they can take a lesson from our play book which is to say when the fbi comes knocking asking questions looking for answers, especially if you have nothing to hide, you ought to be on the side of equipping them with everything they need to complete their work. i believe at the end of this we

will get to the bottom of what this thing is about. i'm going to be fine, my city will be fine and if anybody has done anything wrong i want them to be held accountable for their actions. >> if you win this race. >> when, when. >> all right, i love an optimistic politician. what will be in your view the issue the pundit class will say put you other the top? what is the biggest issue for florida voters that they care most about. >> for me it's economic. right now 44% of people in this state, 44% say they cannot make ends meet at the end of the month. they are trading which bills they can pay before something gets cut off. they are terrified of being one illness away from bankruptcy. those are issues we'll talk about and will be decisive and the only other thing i would say is i think they'll choose between the future where we want-to-go, a more optimistic

united front versus what ron desantis and donald trump are peddling, which is divisive derisive politics which have no place in 2018. andrew gillum, friend of "a.m. joy," we're going to claim it because he has been a friend of this show, he's talked about issues, guns and other things, best of luck and i hope we can have you back to debate ron desantis. >> i look forward to that. up next, my panel will join me to react. stay with us. this is an insurance commercial. but let's be honest, nobody likes dealing with insurance. which is why esurance hired me, dennis quaid, as their spokesperson because apparently, i'm highly likable. see, they know it's confusing. i literally have no idea what i'm getting, dennis quaid. that's why they're making it simple, man in cafe. and more affordable. thank you, dennis quaid. you're welcome. that's a prop apple.

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you just saw me sit down and have a conversation with florida gubernatorial nominee andrew gillum. let's bring in our panel to react. joining me now, the great michael steele, msnbc political analyst and former rnc chairman. king of the 2010 midterms, jonathan cape hearhart and christoph christopher metsler, king of florida. i'm going to give honorific to chairman steele. what about this trite monitor we're giving him. >> he's so just articulate.

[ laughter ] he presents so well. gosh, he had a tie on and everything. damn. black man in a tie. look at this brother here, right? anyway, so okay -- tip your waiters. that's why i went to you first, brother, i knew you were going to come with it. >> gillum is not just impressive, he's smart. he understands the people of his state at least in the democratic primary well enough to win so he has to be respected for what he had to do as the mayor of tallahasse to cobble together a grass-roots -- i identify with him because of the grass-roots effort he put on the ground to win that nomination and i think that will be his strength and we canness going into the fall. the weakness lies how does the

democratic party show love for him while he's espousing a message that the party as a whole has not itself embraced? and that's going to be an interesting dynamic. do you value the and can separate, the message and the opportunity to win more than you value what is right now your established presence on the playing field? so we'll see how that plays out. >> that's an interesting way to look at it, jonathan capehart. i know you've been on the articulate train as well. aside from the sort of trite narratives about him, what do you make of andrew gillum as a candidate? >> what we saw in the interview you just did is why he won and why i think we should not count him out in november. he was able to easily explain why he wanted to be governor, what the issues are, not issues

he cares about but that the voters care about. he was able to speak to those issues in language that people can understand, in language that's not partisan. in language that whether you're a republican, conservative, leftist, social liberal democrat, everybody wants health care, everybody wants a good paying job, everyone wants to put food on the table so the fact that he is able to deliver that message so, so well but also to do so as an unapologetic democrat. to not run away and pretend like he has to either run to the center or shed what he believes in as a democrat in order to be palatable to the rest of the state. the way he speaks is the way a lot of democrats are speaking around the country and that is the show health care, job safety

and security and regular old safety and security from gun violence, those aren't progressive issues, those aren't far left issues. those are the mainstream issues in the country. take, for instance, health care and the expansion of medicare and medicaid for all. people are trying to make that out as a socialist agenda. well, in idaho, utah and one other state i can't remember right now, it's in my column, go read it, they have ballot initiatives to expand health care using medicaid. those are deep red states and that speaks to the overall issue of how important this is. joy, you were on this train long before anyone gave him a chance. i was the same and i think what people saw today is should give the gillum campaign hope for

november. >> chris, you and i are familiar with the florida political scene from opposite sides of the ideological spectrum. andrew gillum outdebated his opponents, part of the reason he just did better in the debates. he's leading in the polls over ron desantis by a healthy margin, outside the margin of error in the newest public policy poll and it seems he is lifting bill nelson who was in trouble, one of the best pickup opportunities was bill nelson's senate seat, former astronaut bill nelson was losing to rick scott despite record medicare fraud and his history. he was leading bill nelson. do you think republicans in florida are nervous about gillum and should be nervous about gillum? >> no, i don't think overall that republicans 234 florida are nervous about gillum.

there are three issues i didn't hear him mention, algae, sugar and the lives of the people in the northern panhandle. in florida, those are the issues people want to hear about. it's not to suggest they don't want to hear about other issues but it's going to be difficult to win without a focus on these issues. will it be a tough fight? yes. but i don't think republicans are as concerned as it's being made out to be at this point. and frankly a day in politics changes everything so from the standpoint of florida you have to focus on those issues that are truly local and those are major issues in the state of florida. >> you also have desantis, who was not the choice of the establishment, it was adam putnam who has been waiting in

the wings for a long time, desantis came out of the gate with the controversy, the whole monkey it up controversy and donald trump is unpopular, nationwide disapproval rating of 60%. i don't know what it is in florida. why would republicans be confident in desantis to beat a guy that we saw has clear political talent like andrew gillum, to stay with you, chris. >> well, because florida is a difficult and complex state. in addition to which, on the point of desantis not being the establishment nominee, i think that's one area he should focus on. the question is going to be will those folks stay home? will they vote with him? will they work actively against him? . i think that is an area of weakness and he needs to get in front of that. >> let me go to michael steele. you were the king of the 2010 midterms, a lot of democrats still mad at you over that.

democrats are looking at a lot of enthusiasm and it's interesting, michael, the south, including your home state of maryland, are nominating african-american candidates. you have ben jealous nominated in maryland, he's not polling so well against the republican larry hogan. stacy abrams in georgia who's polling within the margin of error but ahead of brian kemp in georgia. is the south where democrats ironically enough have their best chance at the congressional level and the statewide races in november? >> yes, i've been saying it for eight, ten years now. i've paid attention to what the democratic party has been doing in the south. we've seen the fruits of this effort in virginia, north carolina, those were solid rhed

states. they aren't anymore. because what the democratic party has done in the state level is gotten out of its own way and allowed candidates to emerge who can speak to a broader population of voters that better reflects who they are. exactly to the point chris was making. if gillum gets out of the broad weeds into the narrow weeds of what is happening with the water there is, what's happening on the panhandle then he will be able to solidify that vote. one other thing, for a guy who says he won't talk about donald trump, my unsolicited advice, stop talking about donald trump. >> but your party isn't the party of green and taking care of the environment, i'm not sure algae is your best bet now. i want to thank you, panel. so articulate, all of you. michael steele needs a tie. >> he performed well. >> he's the chairman. >> i can come close. >> he can be the boss without a tie. michael steele, jonathan

capehart will be back with us, christopher metzler my friend -- saying my friend doesn't help. chris her metzler, thank you for being here. coming up, john mccain trolls trump one last time. -i've seen lots of homes helping new customers bundle and save big,

but now it's time to find my dream abode. -right away, i could tell his priorities were a little unorthodox. -keep going. stop. a little bit down. stop. back up again. is this adequate sunlight for a komodo dragon? -yeah. -sure, i want that discount on car insurance just for owning a home, but i'm not compromising. -you're taking a shower? -water pressure's crucial, scott! it's like they say -- location, location, koi pond. -they don't say that.

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as the nation mourns senator mccain, we want to note another incredible final tribute. funeral services were held for the queen of soul, aretha franklin on friday in her hometown of detroit. the marathon celebration of her life lasted eight hours and featured such high-profile speakers as former president bill clinton, an incredible performance by artists like fantasia, jennifer hudson, shaka khan, smokey robinson, ariana grande and stevie wonder. also in aten dance william barbour and al sharpton who brought the crowd to their feet with this searing response to donald trump whose tribute to franklin was to tweet that she once worked for him. >> i say that because when word had went out that ms. franklin passed trump said she used to work for me. no, she used to perform for you.

she worked for us. 12k34r just one . >> one of the mem memorable moments from that municipal ran and the honor guards outside buckingham palace offered a tribute to the queen of soul courtesy to the queen of england. ♪ ♪ ♪

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>> john understood, as jfk understood, as ronald reagan understood that part of what makes our country great is that our membership is based not on our bloodline, not on what we look like, what our last names are, not based on where our parents or grandparents came from or how recently they arrived but on as heerdherence common creed -- that all of us are created equal. at senator john mccain's request, the two men who defeated him in his quest for the white house, former presidents barack obama and george w. bush, eulogized him during an emotional funeral service at the national cathedral yesterday. their names were not only a tribute to mccain's character but a rejection of everything embodied by the current president who was pointedly not

invited to the funeral. here's how former mccain adviser steve schmidt summed it up during our coverage yesterday. >> it was a fundamental rebuke to the vileness, the corruption, the self-centeredness, selfishness, cruelty that we see emanate from the oef office in the form of president donald j. trump everyday. the choice the country faces in a couple monos about whether to repudiate trumpism or validate is an essential one and you saw today the argument being made for its repudiation. >> joining us now is the author of "winners take all, the elite charade of changing the world" michelle bernard, president of the bernard center for women, politics and public policy and back with me, jonathan capehart and michael steele. the "washington post"

characterized donald trump as persona non grata. he's both unwelcome and unwilling to perform the basic rituals and ceremonies of the presidency from fun lick disppu of ceremonieceremonies. he isn't functioning as president. >> that ceremony was a gorgeous repudiation of everything that trump is. and it was -- there was something very emotionally satisfying about seeing these presidents from different parties remind us of things that didn't used to be radical ideas in america, like the rule of law and allowing journalists to tell the truth but in this depraved moment are radical but i want to say something dissenting from the chorus i've seen around the mccain funeral. i wonder why we wait for a funeral to have some of this speaking truth to power. so some of the people who gave eulogies. it's wonderful to talk about the

president by subtweet in a eulo eulogy. i would like the people who gave these eulogies to be leading movements right now. to be out on the streets. to tell us what to do, to be protecting us and guiding -- >> anyone in particular you're talking about. >> whether it's president bush, president obama, president clinton, secretary clinton, any of those people in that front row and many others in the room. i understand their desire to keep it classy but we risk classing ourselves into authoritarianism. so i hope it goes beyond the eulogizing. this was such a celebration of senator mccain's courage and valor and ability to stand up to torture and he spent by the reporting months preparing his funeral as a rebuke to the president and i think that's a great use of a ceremony but it also occurs to me that in that time he was preparing it he could have chosen to caucus with

the democrats and maybe brick jeff flake along and start some investigations. i don't want to get to a state in american life where we speak truth to power at funerals but don't use our power in our day jo jobs. ur courage can't be a side hustle. these folks need to use that and protect the country from the moment that we were warned against. >> i have to go to you on that michael steele. the republican party is full of people who subtweet donald trump or say things about him or sideswipe him or go off the record with reporters or attack him or people like jeff flake who make beautiful speeches about how or blg what he's doing to this country is but don't do anything about it. lindsey graham, the running buddy of john mccain, invited donald trump's kids to the funerals. he has run point for donald trump. he's become donald trump's buddy

rather than standing with the kind of honorable sort of class eye fight ethic of john mccain so where are the people in the republican party who will fight trump openly? >> i don't think they're there yet. i don't think they've been appropriately identified or found the courage to stick to that sticking post to go out there and do that. i agree with the sentiments just expressed. funerals are a wonderful gathering and commemoration but they're not a place for movement, they're not a place to inspire movement so what you do on monday morning or the next day after that funeral matters more and i think tomorrow and the rest of this week and month and into november will be the medicine for us if we want it to be. we either take advantage of it

as steve schmidt said, i identify with his comments about what this election may mean in terms of either repudiation or affirmation and cementing of trumpism and that will set the course for not just the next two years but many years to come. >> my producers informed me lindsey graham is denying the reporting that he was behind inviting jared and ivanka to the funeral. here is graham on cnn. >> when i saw ivanka and jared i was surprised, i didn't know they were on the invite list. it turns out senator graham you were behind that. >> no. >> you were not behind that. >> nobody was at that funeral that didn't get invite bid the family. earlier i meet with ivanka about a trip we were planning in africa. ivanka said nice things about senator mccain that was not unnoticed by the family. >> michelle bernard, that is the new explanation for how they

ended up there but it's striking that even if the children were there that the sitting president of the united states was not on that row with those former presidents, former vice presidents, all that power on that front row, the absence of the current president was notable. >> it was absolutely notable and when we talk about the current president being rebuked, it was not just trumpism being rebuked it was who trump is and how he has come to define what it is to be an american man and the rebuke that came from meghan mccain was so important and striking when she talked about her father's suffering and being stoic in his suffering in the way we used to define the american man. when she talked about her father being a great man, you couldn't help but sit back and think that that is not the man that currently sits in the white house and i disagree a little with the panel in the sense that

i believe yet's funeral was a rallying call. i believe it was the beginning of a movement that says to americans black and white, male and female, republican and democrat follow in the steps of john mccain, not donald trump. put family first, put country over party first and restore the american public. meghan mccain said it would have been easy for her father to believe that the world was an awful place and that we should give up and one of the things we learned in the funeral yesterday not coming from donald trump but meghan mccain because s that america was always great and we can make it great if people show up and vote in november. >> let me pay a it wilay a litt. >> we gather to mourn the passing of american greatness, the real thing, not cheap rhetoric from men who will never come near the sacrifice he gave so willingly, nor the

opportunistic appropriation of those who live lives of comfort and privilege while he suffered and served. the america of john mccain has no need to be made great again because america was always great. >> there's a lot of angry conservative republicans out there, trump allies according to politico fuming at this mccain memorial address and urging a counterattack against the daughter of the late senate oor >> the truth hurts. meghan mccain gave what i believe was the best eulogy of the entire service. but one of the best eulogies ever and the two clips you showed there were truly spectacular, she was having none of it. she was representing her father in her brief but also her patriotism. i disagree with some of the things that were said. funerals can be and this was a galvanizing moment. to see those living

ex-presidents, all the washington power structure in one place honoring a man who tried twice to be president but didn't succeed and the words that they were -- that they all talked about, spoke to, who we are as a nation, who we are as a people and we've got to stop looking for the people in that front row to lead us. we are the ones to lead us they all in one spot were the match, i will agree the big test will be in november if the american people don't like what's happening in the white house. don't like what is happening on capitol hill they can do something about it. it's not up to bush, obama and clinton, it's up to us. >> this is a great debate. anna, michelle and jonathan will be back with us in our next hour. michael steele, have a great day. go get yourself brunch. >> i'm going to work my tan.

[ laughter ] >> this is why we love you. >> got to get it right. >> put on a tie. you and anna with your informal sunday attire. don't you know it's church day, the pastor is working this you >> this is my church. >> hallelujah. >> in the next hour how the media is having a little trouble understanding what progressives want. trump's border debacle. first, the most important thing happening in washington this week. age accounts. and zero minimums to open an account. at fidelity, those zeros really add up. ♪ maybe i'll win, saved by zero ♪ who would have guessed? an energy company helping cars emit less. making cars lighter, it's a good place to start, advanced oils for those hard-working parts.

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also voted for liberal obama judges who want to take away your second amendment and lots of other things. we need to elect senators who will vote for judges who follow our laws and constitution as written. >> donald trump frequently reminds his fans that a republican majority will ensure conservative judges on the supreme court like his nominee whose confirmations begin on tuesday. joining me president of the legal defense and education

fund. good morning first of all. >> good morning. >> one of the things that's striking about what the white house is doing is withholding 100,000 documents that pertain to his work in the white house. what do you make of that? >> well, it's only the latest in a string of really unconscionable actions taken with regard to the record of this nominee. this is unprecedented. the alarm bells should be ringing. this is someone who had a long career in public life, known before he was nominated, long paper trail, and we've only seen a fraction of it. in particular what has been concealed is the time he served as staff secretary for president george w. bush. those records have been concealed by this administration, most recently with 100,000 pages. first and foremost the national archives made clear they could not reveal all of the documents until the end of october. about senator grassley the chair of the judiciary committee days later announced the hearing

would begin on september 4th. then even with the documents provided, senator grassley has blanket declared hun dretsdreds thousands of pages to be never seen by the public. the latest is the hundred thousand documents cleared by the bush attorney who was reviewing the documents and these are being kept by the trump administration. what do the documents say and what are they trying to hide, joy? the period involved is an important period, certainly a period he was involved in selecting judicial nominee, maybe very controversial judicial nominees like charles pickering. what are they trying to conceal from the public? this is someone who will sit on the united states court for decades to come and about the future of this country and will decide on matters that emanate

out of the mueller investigation and the president who has been implicated in criminal activity with regard to his campaign, i cannot imagine a more important moment and time for the united states senate, many of whom were present at john mccain's funeral yesterday, to stand for what john mccain most recently stood for, which was for a return to regular order. this is not regular order. we saw all of the documents from ellen kagan, all of the documents from justice sotomayor, not seeing all from justice kava naug. democrat or republican should stand for the revealing of all of the documents and no hearing until we receive them no vote until we've had an opportunity to fully vet this nominee. >> you have heard the call from sheryllin. let's see if any senators on either side of the aisle are listening. i'm sorry we have very short time this morning.

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between, you know, getting some of the bernie sanders people to vote for you in a primary and then going to the broader florida electorate and trying to sell that message. i don't think it's going to sell, i don't think that dog will hunt in florida and why we're going to end up being successful. >> welcome back to "am joy." ever since andrew gillum's

primary victim in florida's race the knee-jerk narrative repeated by ron desantis and many in the media has been the tried and true bernie sanders progressive. #democrats at war. indeed the vermont senator did endorse gillum about a month out from the primary for with which the gillum campaign was thankful since it brought much needed attention at a time they were down in the polls. however, like all easy narratives this one misses the mark. gillum endorsed hillary clinton in the 2016 democratic primary and was a delegate for her at the democratic convention. this narrative also ignores all of those who got in early for gillum, grassroots organizations like black pac and color of change and democratic and progressive super funder tom steyer who poured dollars into the campaign starting in june and former housing secretary castro who stumped with him right up until the end. andrew gillum is doing something

interesting in florida that defies the democrats at war narrative. he's running on an unabashed democrat. why he has whatever they might tell you florida republicans nervous. joining me is eric, senior writer, jonathan capehart, washington post, michele bernard, president of the bernard center for women, and bill press, author of "trump must go" a subtle title that doesn't tell you what the book is about. i want to come to you on this, you have also talked about this narrative that it's easy to if bernie sanders endorses someone they're the sanders candidate or hillary clinton endorses, that's the hillary candidate. that narrative is really not actually operative in the party now, is it? is it still that -- that still happening? >> doesn't apply to this florida race. we're in the fall of 2018 and a lot of the press is clinging to

the civil war narrative it barely existing in the winter of 2017 and doesn't exist anymore. >> 85% or something of sanders voters voted for hillary clinton in the general meaning appealing to sanders' voters in florida means appealing to democrats and democrat leaning independents. >> this is kind of outdated insider journalism mode, who's up, down, keep a scorecard. what's happening now there is no civil war. i think the press was hoping for one. it's being portrayed very -- as a negative, right. a couple weeks ago in "the new york times" front page story the premises basically too much passion and energy in the democratic base and that's going to hurt them in november. if you go back to 2010 the tea party movement was not a problem for the republican party, it was a grassroots moment and we're seeing many grassroots moments coming together in the democratic party right now. >> it's interesting, the other thing that was interesting about

the tea party the media became obsessed with them and wanted to talk to them. i haven't seen anybody do the in depth deep dives on protethe progressive voters. you have beowe rourke doing wel in texas. something happening in the base of the independent and dem leaning independent and democratic base that we're not talking about. >> there was obsession with the tea party which gave us a preview of the trump base obsession. we saw it during the obama years, the hard core republican voters were the most important and now we're seeing it again. >> absolutely. there have been some attempts to find out who the voters are. i want to play you one. this is a woman named mimi and she's interviewed and asked why she voted for andrew gillum. >> i love progressives. i'm tired of the old way. i'm a registered democrat, but

i've voted for people who are a little more moderate in the past. now i think we need to go progressive and get rid of some of the old ideas. >> that is kind of the interesting thing, right. progressive ideas are always portrayed, but for a lot of voters they're sort of tired of sort of the -- is it voters are tired of what the democratic party has been presenting, a safe candidate, nonthreatening, rather than gillum, no, these are my ideas? >> absolutely. every time i see this narrative of the civil war in the democratic party it drives me bonkers. if there's any civil war it's in the republican party. we saw that in full display yesterday. i think this woman is on to something. look at andrew gillum, look at stacy abrams in georgia, beto owe rourke in texas, look at ben in maryland, something is going on. it's not -- eric is right. this is no longer hillary versus bernie thing.

at the dnc meeting last week, almost all the hillary people and almost all the bernie people voted together to get rid of the super delegates. the party has a resurgence and life today, particularly on the left, that i think is very, very striking. i think what's behind this socialist pejorative they try to nail an attack on anybody is, that the republicans are running scared and see something is happening and the american people, this is a message by the way that bernie sanders had in 2016. i support him in the primary for that and look how well, he did. people were fed up with the democratic party as usual. you couldn't tell the difference in too many cases between the republican and democratic party. now that's changing, changing fast and it's big and looks very positive for this november. >> i want to give a shout out to lawrence o'donnell who was on the right track and sort of saw the andrew gillum thing for what it was.

please stop streegtreating andr gillum like he's a bernie sanders clone. he was considered -- he's the mayor capital city of florida considered as one of her candidates. you and i talked about this before. one of the things that has been true for probably 20, 30 years is that after 1972 when -- after the mcgovern candidacy, a narrative if progressivism is rising it's a threat. the only way democrats can win is the way bill clinton did. if they aren't doing that they're losing. the nation came out with a headline interesting to me because of that. andrew gillum's win is great news for all the democrats despite what the media may tell you. what? i mean it is interesting to me that you have to sort of convince people that no, it's a good thing that this progressive black guy is the nominee. >> right. no.

i mean it's lazy. i'm glad joan walsh wrote the column before i had a chance to write mine because she gave me an anchor to hang my argument on. i want to jump off from the

going to encourage the black vote to come out. we've got a new type of black democrat. we've got a new type of america. we've got a new democratic party and i think we're seeing it in florida and in georgia. >> not to mention a lot of white voters who are appalled and don't want anything to do with that and will vote even more stronger for a candidate because of that. the way his interviews have gone since he's won. >> you're in a general election in a state that trump run and ran to the left in the primary race. in order to be governor, you need to win voters in the middle. how are you going to do that? >> i don't believe that any of the issues that i stood on in the primary are in any way disqualifying in the general election. >> bill, i feel like that narrative pre-supposes a minimum wage. the idea of health care, where people freaking out because they

didn't realize their health care was obamacare and that it's being taken away. these issues are being framed as too far to the left to win in a general election. is that a mistake on the part of sort of the media narrative? >> no. i love it too, but that's ridiculous. she's not the only one. this is a meme taken up by the media. i looked at his agenda. medicare for all. it's been around for, what, 60, 70 years. it's hardly a radical socialist idea. $15 minimum wage. really? that's a socialist idea. they put this label on him to demean him and say he's to the left that he can't win. i dare say i think medicare for all is a winning issue, especially in florida. and frankly maybe hinted if you look at andrew gillum he has a pragmatic kind of politics, i think is appealing. all that energy, a fresh face,

and i think that -- i think you can see again, when ron desantiss has to resort to a racist slur on the first day and donald trump has to put the socialist label on him they see this guy as a real threat. >> and joy -- >> go on. >> i want to jump on something that bill was talking about in terms of how radical raising the minimum wage is. in 2016 in arizona, there is a ballot initiative to raise the minimum wage to $12 an hour. arizona, red state, donald trump won it by 49%. the ballot initiative also won that same day by 58%. the ballot initiative to raise the minimum wage in arizona got more votes than donald trump. >> is there a narrative that says progressives are feeling we can win and so these candidates are more volatile because of

progressivism or these ideas are more mainstream than people -- >> very mainstream. look at the polling where gillum is commenting on gun laws and where desantis is. look at where desantis is on building a wall and repealing obamacare. wildly unpopular positions. when desantis is interviewed he's not saying you ran to the right, a trump accolade, how will you appeal to the florida voters. why does the democrat have to explain his position which is a mainstream popular position. >> rewriting what is mainstream because everybody wants to have health care. it's pretty clear when people rose up at the thought of having obamacare repealed, people don't want to not have health care. it's interesting. eric, thank you very much. jonathan and michele and bill will be back later in the show. coming up we are ten weeks out y'all, ten weeks from the crucial midterm elections. are you registered to vote? check your registration. ten weeks out. coming up we're going to bring you the first of our new series

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it's labor day weekend and there are just a handful of primaries left which means mid term season is in full swing. in two short months 435 representatives, 35 senators, 36 governors, and more than 6,000 state legislatures will be

elected. we can't cover all of those races, but we can bring your attention to a select few critical races from around the country. with just ten weekends to go before election day we are calling it our "am joy" ten to watch. to kick things off we'll look at the nevada senate race with democratic congresswoman jackie rosen who is in a tight race with incumbent republican dean heller and less than 1 point ahead according to the latest real clear politics average. this is one of those seats that the democrats have to win if they hope to flip the senate. it already looks like a real nail biter. here to fill us in the dean of nevada politics john lawson editor of the nevada independent. all right. jackie rosen polling one point ahead of dean heller, why is she pulling ahead and does she have a shot at winning the seat? >> she definitely has a shot of winning the seat. the race is a dead heat because she's just not that well known,

which is hurting her numbers against dean heller whose numbers here are terrible because of his various flip flops on many, many different issues, especially the issue of repealing obamacare. so, the race is a dead heat but jacky is vulnerable because she's not that well known. there's not as much to attack her on. heller's people keep looking for issues to try to define her before she can define herself, including her relative inexperience. she hasn't done much in congress because she hasn't been there that long. she was elected in 2016. >> let me show you one or the audience one of the attempts to define jacky rosen and they are trying to call her wacky jacky, using a trump meme to take her down. here is some of that. >> all right. i won't do it, whacky jacky,

has -- you don't want her as your senator. you don't want her as your senator. now that name didn't come from me. that's a name people have known about people that know her that's what they call her, whacky jacky, that's what you want? she wants to raise taxes. >> that is not an ad yet. it's donald trump campaigning for dean heller in june. is that something people call jacky rosen in the state? >> joy, that is embarrassing. trump is lying. he made up that name himself when he came here. he probably thought it was brilliant as he thinks most of his nicknames are brilliant. let me tell you, jacky rosen, whatever her flaws are, is the least whacky human being you are ever going to meet. the worst thing you can say about her in terms of the

descriptive is maybe she's boring. she's just -- she hasn't been in politics that long, not the most dynamic individual. but this is what the politics of today thanks to donald trump have been, give somebody a clever nickname, denigrate them and that's the way to define them. nobody i repeat nobody has ever called jacky rosen whacky jacky until donald trump did it in that moment. >> you know, nevada strikes me as a state that is truly a swing state in the sense it has high quality democratic party, harry reid, consistently win in that state, one of the states when the statewide elected democrat seems to be in trouble they manage to pull things together. it's a state capable of electing a republican statewide. the demographics, who has the advantage in terms of the democrats and in terms of who the motivated voters are in this cycle in nevada. >> it's tough to tell and ten weeks from the election, so

many, many different things can still happen. there are several key demographics in the state that will determine it. one is hispanic turnout which has become a big deal. hispanics make up more than a quarter of the population. during the big years for democrats hispanics have turned out in greater numbers than in off years. that's why the democrats had a disastrous year here at least four years ago. hispanic turnout was low. nevada is essentially three states. there is the urban areas of reno and las vegas and then there's big swath spots of rural nevada. it's very, very republican. it still loves donald trump. his numbers are great. dean heller has been spending a lot of time out there. if he can crush jacky rosen by enough in rural nevada, even though it will make up 12, 15, 18% of the vote, he can still survive. dean heller, you can say a lot of things about him, joy, but he

is a survivor. he has never lost a race. he should have lost six years ago but he ran against the only democrat probably he could have lost to, one who was -- one he could have beaten, one who was under investigation by the house ethics committee and won by 12,000 votes. dean heller should lose. he has terrible numbers. but he always seems to find a way to win. >> let's talk about health care real quick, because i don't remember at this point where he stands on the repeal of the affordable care act. there is rumors that the republican would like to try it again. where is dean heller on whether or not the affordable care act, aka obamacare, should be repealed and does his position hurt or help him? >> well, i don't think we have enough time today or maybe in the next week to describe all his positions, joy. he was for it before he was against it before he was against it and for it. you remember that he came out against one of the bills in a

press conference saying the first republican governor to expand medicaid and then that viral video of him with president trump where trump is essentially threatens his re-election and now suddenly dean heller has seen the light and loves donald trump and voted for one of the repeal bills. but you are right about health care. this is going on around the country. democrats are trying to use that issue to defeat republicans in these races. they are using all of dean hellers' positions as the fulcrum to create senator spineless. that is their ad campaign. it's actually very, very well done, i think, but again, if they can make that the issue, then i think dean heller is in big trouble. if he can make jacky rosen, we don't know who she is, she lov s california liberals, all the cookie cutter stuff, he has a

chance to survive. >> we will be coming back to you to get the play by play on this important race. thank you very much. always appreciate talking to you. >> you bet. up next much more "am joy." stay with us. does this map show the peninsula trail? you won't find that on a map. i'll take you there. take this left. if you listen real hard you can hear the whales. oop. you hear that? (vo) our subaru outback lets us see the world. sometimes in ways we never imagined.

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all he has to say is i'm sorry, that 2,975 of you died. that's all he had to say. he's incapable of doing that. anything that comes out of the president's mouth that does not begin with "i am sorry" those people died, even as a simple act of being in tune with what we're feeling, is totally neglectful and totally off the grid. the man does not have a clue. >> nearly one year after hurricane maria hit puerto rico, we have found out that the death toll from the storm and its aftermath was much higher than official reports. according to a new study an estimated 2,975, americans were

killed in the hurricane in the aftermath. thousands of american deaths on his watch should be an incredible and personal tragedy for a president, but this is donald trump's response. >> [ inaudible ] do you still believe that the response to hurricane -- >> i think puerto rico, i think we did a fantastic job. >> more "am joy" after the break. fter the break. introducing new venus platinum. a premium metal handle boosts control... to reveal up to 100% smooth skin. venus you wouldn't accept an incomplete job from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase sensimist relieves all your worst symptoms, including nasal congestion, which most pills don't. and all from a gentle mist you can barely feel. flonase sensimist.

bundle and save big, but now it's time to find my dream abode. -right away, i could tell his priorities were a little unorthodox. -keep going. stop. a little bit down. stop. back up again. is this adequate sunlight for a komodo dragon? -yeah. -sure, i want that discount on car insurance just for owning a home, but i'm not compromising. -you're taking a shower? -water pressure's crucial, scott! it's like they say -- location, location, koi pond.

-they don't say that. our justice department and

our fbi have to start doing their job and doing it right and doing it now. the people are angry. what's happening is a disgrace. at some point i wanted to stay out, but at some point if it doesn't straighten out properly, i will get involved and get in there if i have to. disgraceful. >> well donald trump's feud with the justice department is only getting worse. according to the new york times bruce ohr the doj official targeted by trump with christopher steele was involved in a failed effort to flip a russian oligarch to get information on the russian mob and later on the trump campaign's ties to russia. according to current and former officials and associates of the oligarch. joining me is elle, editor at

above the law.com and natasha at the atlantic and back is the author of "trump must go." let's start with you, natasha, a lot of reporting, russia related stuff, there is this report of "the new york times" attempting to flip russian oligarchs, a description of one encounter, fbi agents appeared unannounced at a home in new york and pressed him over paul manafort a former business partner who would become chairman of trump's campaign. you that reporting making donald trump go crazy and also a guy called sam patton, who pleaded guilty to violating the act, the registration act, and has been charged and pleaded guilty. rudy giuliani talking about the plea on friday. >> nothing to do with the president, nothing to do with collusion, everything to do with

lobbyists directed improperly who the president doesn't know. every indictment is unrelated to the president. we went through the entire manafort trial and wasn't a single mention of the president. >> the inauguration. >> not of the president. >> of who then. you reported on him early. >> yeah. back in april when i was doing research on an associate of paul manafort and this man named sam patton. he is very much like a manafort figure, a gone for hire. he worked on behalf of very powerful people in other countries, oftentimes corrupt, and he has known him about two decades now. they met in moscow in 2001 and worked for a think tank called the international republican institute and worked on and off together for the last 20 something years and when i was looking into colinick, he had opened up a company in washington with sam paten and

what did this company do, and why was colinick able to ingratiate himself in culture and politics. it turns out patten when i asked why working with him in this capacity he would not elaborate. all he said was his clients were outside of the u.s., they had a friendship that went back ages and that's where this came from. when i asked him whether that company had done domestic messaging to require them to file a -- notify the justice department he donald the and said all our clients are outside of the united states. he did not want to reveal the fact that he and kilimnik were doing this in the u.s. >> kilimnik is from where? >> russian. he was essentially served as paul manafort's fixer in ukraine

and they've worked together a number of years. >> you have this mr. kilimnik, and the two russian nationals involved in shady dealings, the attempt to get foreign money into the american inauguration to the american president also from ukraine and russia and that sphere, fbi agents attempting to flip a russian oligarch to get to trump and manafort, and then george papadopoulos saying i shouldn't get much jail time because all i was doing is trying to set up a meeting and vladimir putin in which he said trump he nodded for approval but at that meeting was the current attorney general of the united states. all these foreign policy doings during the campaign were taking place under the au pes sus of donald trump's foreign advisory dream which included the current attorney general. how is it donald trump doesn't understand the same guy had to recuse himself because he was involved? >> sounds like a massive criminal conspiracy to me.

it's not -- one of the things -- and natasha did a great job of explaining paten's connection and all the internet connections and trump's best argument on the obstruction he's good. on the collusion front his argument is still i'm too stupid to understand what you're talking about. sessions was here but wasn't and patten, trump can say he was too much of an idiot, that trump was a useful idiot, robert mueller might -- i think we have to prepare ourselves for the possibility that robert mueller might honestly come up with the answer because it might actually be true that trump while he was kind of involved and aware of all of this, was simply too dumb to direct an actual criminal conspiracy to help russians

influence the campaign. >> surrounded but just like -- >> that could be the answer. >> bill, your book is just so subtle, i really feel you should come out of your shell and tell us what you think because it's very confusing. >> the title says it all. >> the top 100 reasons to dump donald trump. is one of your reasons that donald trump colluded in your view with a foreign power to get himself elected or can he get away with this idea that all these russians are swirling around his campaign, around everyone around him, but he didn't know it? >> there's a chapter in the book about donald trump and the russian connections and joy, let's go back, remember, this is september 2nd and what's stunning to me is we're talking about this because according to rudy giuliani the mueller investigation was ending yesterday, remember that. september 1. yet it's very much alive. very quickly, the big picture,

okay, jotted notes, what's happened? paul manafort convicted on eight counts, michael cohen, a plea deal, immunity for alan weisselberg ceo of trump empire and david peker from "the national enquirer," [ inaudible ] funneling money, george pap dap police saying trump agreed to a meeting with putin, bruce ohr saying russian intelligence had trump, joy, this all -- we learned about this in the last ten days. right. so i think what this tells us is, look, this investigation is still very much alive, it's still very serious, and they are closing in on donald trump. the president of the united states is under criminal investigation. i don't care what he says. let's not forget that. >> does the trump camp understand, because it does feel like there's almost a lull in worry inside of the trump team. everyone in russia apparently

was helping his campaign, but -- did he not notice them? were the accents not that profound? i don't get it. are they worried inside? >> i think they're worried about what the president will do and say now that will further incriminate himself or obstruct the investigation than about the actual substance of it as of right now. the mueller probe is still kind of a very abstract concept because he has not, obviously, come out with his report. they're saying there are no direct ties to trump and everything is -- >> other than everyone he knows. >> right. so i think that the biggest fear for them is that he's going to keep tweeting, that he might have more evidence used against him in terms of the obstruction probe. as we see everything does go back to the president. especially knowing now that inauguration was essentially infiltrated by foreign money. >> i'm going to give you the last word on this, but also i know that you have a very specific feeling about jeff sessions. >> this conversation, up with of

the things we need to take from it is that jeff sessions is not the linchpin to keeping all of this going on. we know that trchump is gearingp to fire jeff sessions. get him out of here. jeff sessions is the guy you fire. jeff sessions, i care about russia, i care about collusion with a foreign enemy to influence our democrat and care about black and brown people more, care about children in cages more, denying passports to american citizens based on their skin more. jeff sessions is the kind of guy is the kind of evil that people have been willing to die to stop. you're telling me i can get rid of him and all i might have to sacrifice is bob mueller who isn't going to charge the president, i make that trade before breakfast. get rid of jeff sessions now, see if the senate wants to confirm somebody who is going to stop the investigation or not, doesn't matter to me. jeff sessions needs to go. bring me chris christie. he's just a jerk. he's not -- he's not evil.

>> it's too bad your mic is so small. if you dropped it it wouldn't have the impact the next statement requires. i think we have to end on that note. we will bring you back for part two on that one. interesting take. people are saying preserve jeff sessions. you said no. >> he's first that needs to go. >> amen. >> an amen from the subtle. bill, come back i want to talk to you about the book. we'll have you back. >> thank you very much. >> the latest outrage at the border which you heard about from elle. hich you heard about from elle. david.

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donald trump's birther moverment apparently moves on in the trump-fied staid department where hispanic citizens are being denied u.s. passports as well as having existing u.s. passports revoked. that's right, american citizens. according to the washington post the state department is casing doubt on the validity of birth certificates and the government alleges for decades mid wives provided fraudulent documents when babies were born. they are posting back in a statement that domestic passport denials are at the lowest rate for five years for midwife

cases. joining the conversation, maria, her mic is good. i was worried for a minute there. this is shocking, i think what we read. this is essentially denominat n denationalizing people. >> it's something the president kicked offer his campaign with and really feeds into what, i think, we're talking about when it comes to the massive democratic changes. this is not only about denying american citizens the possibility of getting their citizenship taken away and they don't belong to or identifying now that with the denomination lization ta lization task force adenationald

and a strategy to basically try to make american latinos the second largest population of americans in this country become unamerican and this is really where americans of all stripes have to step up and say this isn't going to happen on our watch. we should all be furious because it may end with the latino community but it isn't going to end there. this is the same administration that's trying to pull temporary protective status for those who are la teetino and there is a mm ban that will go into effect because the president is trying to define who is american. >> anna, according to the washington post, passport applicants with u.s. birth certificates are being jailed and entered into deportation settings and others are stuck in mexico. this is denomination lizing citizens.ationalization

citizens. >> this is the redemption of ala alarmism and because our institution is so robust this isn't going to happen. he'd say you can punch someone at a rally but when it came to policy and things you're talking about, which are basically getting into 20th century europe precursor policies, we were all told that like that couldn't happen and it is happening. >> yeah. >> it's not could happen in america. this stuff is now happening. just think for a second. what does citizenship mean? the only thing it's supposed to mean is it can't be taken away from you in the way it is. >> you've seen this sort of talk about this before, the idea

there shouldn't be birthright citizen ship targeting people whose last names have a z at the end of latino, let's be blunt. this fear of a wave of non-white citizens making white americans the minority. they base it on micro data that gets blown up -- macro data. between 1960 and 2008, a total of at least 75 mid wives practicing in south texas were convicted of fraud length aan a. the problem is those mid wives signed a bunch of birth certificates for children who had been born on u.s. soil. there was a 2009 government settlement in a case that mostly put an end to the passport denials but now people are being asked to produce their mid wife documents, which nobody has to prove they are american. is this, in your view, an attempt to reduce and even if it's in a small way the hispanic populati population? >> well, reduce the hispanic

population in texas where it will be potential electoral boom if the republicans don't straighten this out and i have to say again, it starts with the latinos across the border but it doesn't end there. right now, folks that are trying to get naturalized, we have 750,000 people that have -- are trying to secure their ability to become u.s. citizens but there apparently is a backlog by the trump administration under obama people had to wait roughly three to four months. now they are waiting one and a half years to become naturalized citizens because they are afraid of making sure those people could become voters. they are starting with the latino community but that's not where they are ending. they won't end only with latinos. they have to say it means something in this >> absolutely. you wrote a book "winners take all" and talked about this elite presenting themselves to save the world but there is

incredible control that people with a lot of money have changing the way the country is. there is an elite component. there are people with a lot of money that want these policies, right? >> the reality is donald trump, you know, occupies so much of our imagination today it's easy to forget in my view, he's a pimple on a boil on a very diseased body of politic and all of our attention goes to that pimple, but we have a lot of problems that let him be possible from which he emerged and my hope is we start to see some of the ways in which his presidency might unravel or indictments or whatever is that we actually start going deeper to understand how we got into this and i spent the last few weeks thinking about three questions. how did we actually in a deeper way get here? how do we get out of it? and the question so many of us, what can individuals do to make a difference? >> yeah. >> what i realize is donald trump capitalized on this age in which elites from mark zuckerberg to elon musk and others say they are making change and it's fake change and he's the president of fake

change and we need to learn how to make real change. >> anna and maria, thank you very much. anna and i will be back tuesday night at the new york public library. if you're in new york, come by and we'll hear more about his new book. we'll get more on that. if you have tickets, see you there. if not, sorry, it's sold out. i can't help you. more "a.m. joy" after the break. more "a.m. joy" after the break. you wouldn't accept an incomplete job from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase sensimist relieves your worst symptoms, including nasal congestion, which most pills don't.

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