me to kind of slide in some great stories about my mom and so kind of keep her alive. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline extra." thank you for watching. good morning, i'm dara brown at msnbc headquarters in new york. it is 7:00 a.m. in the east and 4:00 out west and here is what is happening. dualing presidents, the current and former in an epic battle. >> isn't this much -- isn't this much more exciting that listening to president obama. >> it did not start with donald trump. he's a symptom, not the cause. >> you'll hear from both as they offer sharply different tapes but they do have similar views on one issue. president trump asking for a favor to the scathing new york

times op-ed. >> and a new report suggesting jared and ivanka believe one person is behind it and is, quote, destroying the presidency. details next on "msnbc live." we begin with a live picture of the white house where the search appears to be intensifying for the person behind the scathing new york times op-ed, president trump campaigning last night telling reporters he has a list and jeff sessions is in further neglect if they don't investigate. >> i think it is a national security matter. they should look at it and look at it very strongly and we should find out who it is because why should we live with somebody in the white house who is really subversive in a sense. i could think of four or five, mostly people that either i don't like or respect, but they're there because in some cases they have to be governmentally. meaning they're protected. we have a lot of people that are

protected. but i thought of two or three or four people, people that i haven't -- >> do you want to name them? >> no, i don't want to name them. >> "the new york times" standing by the official to keep the identity secret despite the president's latest threat calling on the "times" to unmask the person. they call it a blatant abuse of power adding the threats to underscore why we must safeguard the identity of the writer of the op-ed and serve as a reminder of a free and independent press to american democracy. joining me now, caitlyn owens from axios and kevin cirilli from bloomberg news. welcome to you both. you heart the president talking about narrowing the list to a handful of suspects. so any sense of how the white house shortened this list and who might these people be? >> they've been in a tail spin since the release of this op-ed this week and what it is

showcasing is how flat footed the administration was caught and first with the book and then the anonymous op-ed. the president doubling down in criticism against the media. they feel that helps with their base making the case against the media but also really running to cameras, so to speak. there was an event added at the white house, at the last minute, an expanded photo on for the president to make statements and talked about it all week and discussed it on twitter. so from -- on the one hand, i think that for republicans who support the administration, they're going to argue that see that, the deep state exists but for critics, see that, this is not normal. so i'm not sure there is -- this moves the polls much. >> and denial from key officials pouring in. up to 27 names so far. is there anyone sticks out yet that hasn't issued a denial. >> i don't think so.

but the thing to remember here is first of all as a lot of people pointed out, i don't know if just denying it, you would hope it is true, of course no one will walk around and say, well i didn't not write the op-ed. so i think that there is a lot of people that could still be and people out there and i think something to keep in mind here is this isn't new. people have been quoted anonymously in every major news source for months talking about the president and trying to thwart his worst impulses and so while the list is wide -- there is a number of people this could be. >> and kevin, according to vanity fair the president's daughter ivanka and his son-in-law jared are pushing the theory that john kelly with the help of his deputy is behind the op-ed telling the president, he's destroying your presidency. are we potentially looking at the final chapter of the long-running feud with kelly. >> here we go again. with the drama up and down in

the president trump's white house. i thought it was remarkable -- i don't have the same reporting as the vanity fair in terms of the tension between ivanka and jared kushner and general kelly, but look, i think it was remarkable th the vice president -- the vice president of the united states of america putting out a statement distancing themselves. that screen that we just saw of all of the individuals who put out cabinet level officials putting out statements saying that it wasn't them, that is -- that is not something that we typically see. so i just think that, number one, this anonymous op-ed was written and published in the first place is unique and number two, these high level officials inside of a government, republican or democrat, having to put out statements is remarkable and unique. >> and the president is doubling down saying jeff sessions should uncover this anonymous source so here he is aboard air force one.

>> do you think jeff sessions should be investigating the author of the op-ed or who -- >> i think so. because i think it is national security. i would say jeff should be investigating who the author of that piece was. because i really believe it is national security. >> caitlyn, what are the national security concerns the president is referring to here? are there any? >> look, i think there -- you have to answer that on a couple of levels. first of all in terms of laws that have been broken, it is not clear if any of those have been, right. but then ethically this is questionable. you have a -- according to the times, a senior administration official actively working to undermine the president. regardless, i'm not going to comment on whether those intentions are right or wrong. but the point is this is an unelected official that is intervening on yes, national security measures and even president obama talked about that is not how our democracy works. so obviously this person is impacting national security for

better or for worse, it is for other people to decide. but in terms of whether or not it breaks any laws, i haven't seen any that -- that it does break. >> and kevin, when you widen the lens on this new york times op-ed, what did it achieve and was it worth putting the writer under this intense scrutiny. >> there is a couple of things. you talk to those in the media industry and there is a lot of questions that the new york times have to answer in terms of the process they went through. "the new york times" said they went through an intermediary and the gender is a male. they felt that it was in the reader's best interest to publish this post. but i want to be clear. they are completely within their right to publish something under the first amendment protections and if people want to agree or disagree but this is protektd by the first amendment. >> and the white house was on the defense because of bob woodward's "fear" book so what

is the impact of that. >> right, this is just too -- two things that just reinforce the same narrative that the president is unhinged and crazy and the aides are working to protect the country from the president's own impulses. this is not a good p.r. narrative for the white house and they've had a rough week. and the narrative to the american public is the people around the president don't trust him and are trying to protect him from -- or the country from him. and the thing is i -- i think kevin hinted at this, this reinforces the narrative on both sides if you're an ally of the president, you're saying the deep state is out to get him and if you are an opponent for the president you're saying he's not fit for office. >> and kevin, there was another astounding moment this week and former president barack obama breaking with precedent and rebuking the president at the university of illinois. let's play some of that. >> it did not start with donald

trump. he's a symptom, not a cause. he's capitalizing on resentments politicians have been fanning for years. a fear and anger in a is rooted in our past but also born out of the enormous upheavals that have taken place in your brief lifetimes. >> this is the first time we hear obama criticizing trump by name. is this effective in helping democrats in november? >> i think that it is effective for former president obama in articulating to the democratic party in a he is in fact the driving force behind the midterm elections and i think he positioned himself with that speech to be a center point in the democratic party in terms of being a dominant force as they head into the midterm elections in the 2020 presidential cycle but the second point is the point you made, dara, this is rare. it is very rare. in fact i can't recall another

former president to speak and give a political of the news day speech politically attacking the current president. >> and just a few weeks before the midterm elections. kevin sir illy, thank you and caitlyn owens, great to have you here. and coming up, why the president is celebrating after a former trump campaign aide was sent to jail. make a smart choice. replace one meal or snack a day with glucerna... made with carbsteady to help manage blood sugar... ...and end the day with a smile.

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biden implores democrats to vote in november, new forecast on how americans will vote looks good for the democrats. nate silver 538 gives democrats 76% of winning the house and gaining 35 seats and the politico forecast puts 60 republican held seats in the danger zone. in a new interview, mitch mcconnell acknowledges the challenges ahead for republicans in november and he sat down with msnbc hugh hewett in a wide-ranging interview beginning with the drama surrounding the supreme court nomination. >> it was reported that president trump was upset when then judge now justice gorsuch met with you and other colleagues and may have been less than complimentary. does a nominee owe loyalty to the president once through this process and once on the bench? >> no, i think once the member is confirmed to the supreme court, he has an obligation to try to follow the laws as written. >> i have to read to you a tweet

from a year ago, actually a few years ago from 2013. thanks to all of you who encourage me to consider filibuster reform. that had to be done. that was from your old colleague harry reid. what do you think he feels about this. >> not very far -- hugh hewett and i have discussed this in the past. we never filibusters until george bush 43 was elected president and so the appointment whether to the cabinet or court is a new invention. and who invented it? chuck schumer. we're band to where we were as a matter of custom for 200 and some odd years down to the 2000 election which is you don't filibuster nominees on the executive calendar. so i'm comfortable with where we are. that is the way we operated when i first got to the senate before they started routinely

filibustering nominations. i think a majority is appropriate for the executive calendar, including judges. >> now the antics we've watched this week have led some to observe that the body is as polarized as its ever been and do you agree with that because you have a lot of years here that relations between the two sides of the aisle are at their nader. >> it is a difference between putting on an act in a committee hearing room and how you act on the senate floor. there is no lack of collegiateality in the senate but what the democrats are doing is putting up a good front, knowing they're going to lose and trying to convince their left wing base which is demanding of them something they can't deliver. they're demanding they defeat this nominee. that's not going to happen. so the next thing they could do is put on a good show and a good fight and think senator booker went entirely too far last night. >> but ultimate question, is

this your legacy, beginning with the decision to hold open the scalia vacancy because of the death of justice scalia through the organization of the appeals and supreme court nominee, is this the most part of the legacy. >> i think so. the longest impact on the country. in the legislative process, there is not much you can do all by yourself. the one thing the majority leader could do is the schedule. what you will do or what you will not do. i think the decision not to fill the scalia vacancy was the most consequential decision of my career and the follow-up on that to not only fill the supreme court vacancy but put in place men and women and believe that the job of the judge is to interpret the law and particularly at the circuit court level as long as we're in the majority is the most important thing i'll be involved with 234 my career.

>> and agree and i want to conclude by asking you about the new york times op-ed by the anonymous senior official in the trump white house. were you surprised that someone would feel this way and act that way? >> well, "the new york times" is putting stories on the front page all of the time based on anonymous sources so this is the most recent example of it. >> last question. democrats say that a blue wave will result -- energize by the kavanaugh confirmation and do you think a blue wave will result from the proceedings and confirmation. >> we know it is going to be a tricky year. off the elections two years into the administration have been challenging for the party of the president. we know the win -- the wind will be in our face but we don't know whether it is category three, four or five. in the senate, we're not all up -- we have a pretty good map but they had a pretty good map two years ago. i think the elections will be

close and hard fought right until the end and i hope in the end when the votes are counted we'll be in the agenda for two more years and complete this judicial project we're talking about which i think has the longest positive impact on the country right of center. >> mcconnell also touted republican's control of the presidency and house and senate and saying it is the most productive congress of his career. and one of trump's former aides is going to jail and the president is celebrating. up next. to the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy. and last year, i earned $36,000 in cash back. which i used to offer health insurance to my employees. what's in your wallet? ♪ he eats a bowl of hammers at every meal ♪ ♪ he holds your house in the palm of his hand ♪ ♪ he's your home and auto man ♪ big jim, he's got you covered ♪ ♪ great big jim, there ain't no other ♪

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i looked at candidate trump directly in his eyes and said i could do this for you if it is in your interest and in the campaign's interest. the collective energy in the room seemed to be interested -- >> the collective energy. was donald trump interested in. >> the candidate gave me a sort of a nod. >> reporter: former trump campaign adviser george papadopoulos saying candidate trump was interested in a

meeting with vladimir putin. he was sentenced on friday to 14 days in prison after lying about his russian contacts, in a tweet the president mocked the two week prison sentence, 14 days for $28 million, $2 million a day, no collusion, a great day for america. joining me now is msnbc legal analyst danny receive rammales. >> and what does this tell us. >> you have to consider the sentencing guidelines here. for papadopoulos as with alex van der zwaan, looking at zero to seven months under the sentencing guidelines so when you consider that first time offenders for this crime get probation, it is actually a severe sentence within those sentencing guidelines. even though it is a felony. the 14 days is more -- is an

incarceration sentence and he a solid argument for a probation-only sentence so trump is wrong, within the sentencing guidelines it is a significant sentence because many could get probation. but on the other hand, trump has a point, if this only creates crimes as a product of the investigation for false statements he might have an argument there was no underlying collusion. >> and let's bring up the tweet from president trump calling it a great day for america and using this light sentence as proof of no collusion. is it? >> it is not proof of collusion. the sentence only because george papadopoulos was convicted of lying to investigators about what he knew. so trump is strangely in a sense correct that the papadopoulos sentence, the papadopoulos crime is about lying to investigators.

not about under underlying collusion with russia. so in a sense, trump is correct, but at the same time this may be part of a larger group of defendants that we my see in the future demonstrating that there was, in fact, collusion. >> and danny, does any of this suggest that papadopoulos has given mueller any critical information? >> it is interesting because papadopoulos -- the government said he did not cooperate to the level of what we call substantial assistance. that is a very magical phrase in criminal defense land, meaning the government is satisfied the defendant gave them all of the information that they wanted so that they file a motion to give him a much lower sentence. but in this case, it may have been a gam bit by papadopoulos, he didn't need to cooperate because his sentencing guidelines were so low and he might have gotten seven days instead of 14.

it may have been a gamble but one that may have worked out to not cooperate in this case. and turning to brett kavanaugh and his long week of hearings. one senator questioned to the motive for the nomination. here is cory booker, listen. >> in may of 2016 then candidate trump put out his first list of nominees and you weren't on that list. and then in may of 2017, something incredible happened. robert mueller was appointed by the special counsel to investigate any links and coordination between the russian government and the trump campaign. and then president trump puts out a third list of nominees and your name is on that list. >> what is your interpretation of that. >> booker is trying to make the argument that brett kavanaugh was hand picked in order to protect president trump but that misunderstanding his view on separation of powers and executive power. it is not clear that kavanaugh believes that the president cannot be prosecuted, rather he

suggested to congress that they enact a law because he believes the president is exposed -- >> danny, we have to go. thank you so much. i'm going to wrap you here. that will do it for me. i'm dara brown. and now it is final for "your business" with j.j. ramberg. even when i was there, i never knew when my symptoms would keep us apart. so i talked to my doctor about humira. i learned humira can help get, and keep uc under control when other medications haven't worked well enough. and it helps people achieve control that lasts. so you can experience few or no symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common,

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good morning, coming up on "your business," this michigan ferry service had more customers than they could handle it was sir -- sinking their business. the changes they had to make though ensure calmer waters for the future. >> and the tell tale signs that an employee is bem bezeling money for your company. when this comes to making choices for your business. we have your back and that is coming up next on "your business"