goods, not michigan jofnlts. >> we'll see how much your t feud with your neighbors in the north intensifies. gretchen witmer, running for governor here on the democratic ticket, thank you very much. [ applause ] >> that is "all in" this evening. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. good evening. >> good evening, chris. i love you in room of real live americans. it's very exciting. you're at my best, friends. >> they all send their best. >> hi, guys. that was excellent. i love that thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. happy that you are with us tonight. hurricane florence was upgraded to a category 3 hurricane earlier today, and then within an hour, it was upgraded from a category 3 to a category 4 storm. this is a big one, and it really does look like it is aimed right at the american east coast. the governor of south carolina, henry mcmaster has already ordered the evacuation of about one million people in eight

coastal counties in south carolina. everybody is under mandatory evacuation order as of noon tomorrow. state government has announced that two major highways will be opened halfback wards tomorrow to facilitate that evacuation. so starting tomorrow, if you're in one of those eight coastal counties in south carolina and you're following the advice that you must get out, you will have a choice. you can get on a highway and take the road heading away from the coast as you usually do, or you can drive on the other side of that highway too if you want, the side of the road that is usually oncoming traffic will be turned around so all traffic, all lanes, both sides of the median will run one direction only, out. out of the way of the storm. the exact track of this storm at this point is still a little bit in flux, as it always is this far out. but we do know the basics about where it is headed. and given the size of the storm and the examinations about how long it's due to hang out there

offshore, it looks like there's probably going to be a dual flooding risk from this storm. they're expecting a large storm surge on the coast. so that's saltwater, coastal flooding from the storm surge. they're also potentially damaging waves, right? but then inland, away from the sea, the storm is expected to bring so much rain that there will also be fresh water flooding almost anywhere the storm lingers. and that means overflowing rivers and lakes and ponds, but also just water in the street, right? so, again, a million people under mandatory evacuation orders already. this does look like a big one, a potentially national consequences. so expect that storm as it continues churning toward the carolina coast. expect this to be dominating news, and rightly so all week long this week. today in washington, republicans tried to set thursday, this thursday as the day for the

judiciary committee to vote on the confirmation of brett kavanaugh to the u.s. supreme court. first of all that, day, thursday, is likely to be hurricane day. secondly, senators were still submitting additional questions to brett kavanaugh as of today. expecting that process to be over and senators to be ready to vote by thursday seems fast, even for this rushed process. democrats, of course, only have so much power because they're in the minority in the senate, but we're told that democrats may be able to delay that announced vote by about a week or so using senate tactics. remember, the math here is that if all democratic senators stick together in opposition to brett kavanaugh's nomination, they only need two. it only takes two republicans to come to the same conclusion and kavanaugh's nomination will be blocked. it's not unthinkable. brett kavanaugh is a historically unpopular nominee. he has been nominate bade

historically unpopular president using a process that has been rushed as fast as possible without senators or the public getting access to a vast majority of government documents that pertain to kavanaugh's time working in the george w. bush white house during some very controversial stuff, including some stuff he appears to have not told the truth about under oath. so finding two republican no votes is certainly not going to be an easy task in these partisan times, but it is not unimaginable either. and now one republican senator who is seen as a possible no vote on brett kavanaugh, she's telling her hometown paper that she may have a, quote, major problem with kavanaugh as a nominee. we've got much more on that story ahead tonight. you will want to hear that news. it was also an interesting and somewhat democratic court proceeding today in washington where accused russian agent mariia butina has been charged with federal prosecutors with

infiltrating the nra to influence the election as a secret agent of the russian government. a judge today in washington rejected the lawyers' request, maria butina's lawyers' request that she be released from jail pending trial. the judge somewhat angrily also imposed a gag order both on the prosecutors in the case and the defense lawyers in that case. thus precluding either side from making any further public comments about the maria butina case until her trial is over and done with. just as we are getting on the air tonight, we just got in the transcript of the court hearing today in the maria butina case. you'll want the hear the judge's angry tirade about the lip-synching video she was forced to watch in chambers for no reason. it's really good. we've got that coming up a little later on. so a whole bunch of stuff going on, all at once there a lot to keep an eye on for the next several days. it does seem like it's going to be a busy and important news week this week.

but it does seem clear from watching the president's twitter feed, if nothing else, that at the white house right now, they basically consider tonight to be woodward eve. some excerpts and descriptions from bob woodward's new book leaked out in advance last week, but tomorrow is actually the publication date for this new book from bob wood wood, "fear: trump in the white house." having read most of the book now myself and watching mr. woodward start to do his advanced publicly before the publication date tomorrow, it is clear at least to me, i think it's clear that the title of the book, right, the book is called "fear." the title of the book i think is a little bit of a double ente entender. it has a double meaning. clearly fear is the word that woodward thinks best describes the atmosphere inside the white house, both in terms of irrational paranoia, but also in

terms of rational fear of what might be exposed or what might result from the special counsel's investigation led by robert mueller. so fear, on the other hand, is about the feeling of fear inside the white house. but i think it's also fair to say that fear is also what bob woodward is suggesting we should all have about this person holding this office and how dangerous that could be both for us as a country and for the world. i say that -- i think that is a fair interpretation of woodward's book. not only because i'm reading that in terms of the way he tells the story, but also now that he is talking about his book in advance of the publication tomorrow, that's pretty much what he is telling all his interviewers. he is basically saying, hey, listen, the main point here is i'm telling you should be afraid. >> you look at the operation of this white house, and you have to say let's hope to god we

don't have a crisis. >> "fear: trump in the white house" is woodward's 19th book, and he says reporting it took him deeper inside a working white house than he's ever been before. >> this one was in the belly of the beast. >> and what did you conclude about the beast? >> that people better wake up to what's going on. >> well, i've never seen an instance when the president is so detached from the reality of what's going on. >> people who work for him are worried that he will sign things or give orders that threaten the national security or the financial security of the country or the world. >> what i want to do is focus -- you know, here that's problem. this is not been treated seriously enough, and the things -- some of the things

trump did and does jeopardized the real national security. >> so bob woodward has started promoting this book ahead of its publication date tomorrow. he is being very clear what he is trying to do with this book and why he titled it "fear" is to try to wake up the american people to what he sees as a serious danger that he is reporting about the president. i said that i have read most of the book. i did not do that because i enjoy being scared in that way. i enjoy that because i've got bob woodward here tomorrow, on the day the book is actually published, he is going to be my guest here live in studio tomorrow night. and as the bob woodward book launches, people can start getting their hands on it themselves. they've preprinted something like a million copies of the book. they're expecting this to be a massive, massive roll-out tomorrow. it does appear that the impending publication of this

book, and also probably that anonymous "new york times" op-ed last week as well, they have sort of shaken a few things loose from this president and from his defenders in congress. and in particular, i think there are a couple of things we should all be watching for tonight and over the course of this week that specifically relate to this existentially challenging investigation that has this president in this white house so worried. the first thing to watch for has to do with this handsome fellow. you will recognize him from recent news coverage because this last friday he was sentenced to prison. he has not yet reported to start his sentence. i don't actually know when he is doing that. but in the meantime, after his sentencing, before actually going to prison, he has been doing something close to a media blitz. and most of it honestly i think is him trying to make sure he is known for something other than just being the first member of the trump campaign to go to prison for lying about colluding with the russians to help trump win the election. he is trying to give you other

things to think when you hear the name george papadopoulos, other than that one blunt historic fact. but as we noted here on the show on friday night when we got the first excerpts from the first interview with him that was published after his sentencing, an interview with "the new york times," this trump campaign adviser george papadopoulos is now sort of contesting what was previously an uncontroverted story about how he fits into the whole russia scandal, and in fact, why he was so important to the fbi starting their counterintelligence investigation into the president and his campaign in the first place. and you know this part of the story by heart by now, right? was first reported in "the new york times" nearly nine months ago. george papadopoulos spring of 2016, may of 2016, after he had been named a foreign policy adviser to trump campaign, he was in london. he reportedly had a meeting over drinks with an australian diplomat at a london wine bar. at that meeting, papadopoulos told this australian diplomat that russia had stolen democratic e-mails and that

those stolen e-mails ultimately would hurt the hillary clinton presidential campaign. the australian diplomat reportedly didn't think much of it at the time, but lo and behold, a couple of months later, it was revealed that in fact the russian government really had stolen democratic e-mails at which point the australian government called the fbi, hey, you guys, hey, you g-men, hey, you feds should know that the donald trump campaign had advanced notice of the russians doing this before anybody knew about it publicly. right? this guy george papadopoulos, who is advising the trump campaign, told our diplomat that this had taken place before any of this was ever public. y'all should look into it. so that's the story, which, again, you know by heart now. and the reporting, the seminal reporting on this is that notification from the australian government about that conversation that george papadopoulos had had in the spring of 2016, that notification to the fbi was the catalyst for the fbi to start investigating. not just russia interfering in the presidential campaign, but

crucially, whether or not the trump campaign was in on it, right? to the point where they had advanced knowledge of what the russians were doing before anybody knew about it publicly. i mean, that supposedly was the catalyst for the fbi starting its investigation of whether the trump campaign colluded with russia. if it hadn't been for that drunk kid in the bar flapping his jaws. well, that young guy is now on his way to prison, and on his way to prison, he is now saying no, actually, that didn't happen, or at least i don't remember that happening. so reconsider that story. "new york times" reporter mike misetti released audio excerpts of his interview on this subject with george papadopoulos today at the website of the "new york times." we've got a clip from that here. what you're going to hear in this clip is the actual interview from mark misetti from "the times" and george papadopoulos. but interspersed with that is mark misetti sort of narrating it a little bit so you can follow what is happening in their conversation. >> shortly after that, you're in

an upscale bar in london, talking to australia's top diplomat in the uk. how did that come about? >> in may of 2016, so shortly afterwards. >> uh-huh. >> he was in a meeting, the top australian diplomat in the uk, a man named alexander downer thinking meeting was supposedly about the u.s./australia relationship which of course i had no background in whatsoever. >> the australian wanted to meet. at this point the foreign diplomats are still trying to figure out whose on this trump campaign, who are these advisers? who is george papadopoulos? so they immediameet in a bar. >> what were you drinking? >> i think i had a gin and tonic. >> in the introduce, downer has said you brought up the russian dirt on hillary clinton. >> we now know over the course of that meeting, papadopoulos told alexander downer what mifsud had told him, that the

russians had all this dirt, damaging information, e-mails of hillary clinton. but -- >> i don't remember talking than with him at all. >> so you don't remember at any point in that meeting talking about russia dirt, hillary clinton? >> i don't have -- no, i don't remember that at all, actually. >> he says he does remember other aspects of that meeting, but doesn't remember the part where he told downer about this information. >> it was quite shocking when i read it actually in "the new york times" for the first time. >> our own reporting first revealed this, that downer's information made its way to australia, and that eventually to the australian embassy in washington and eventually to the fbi. and that was the reason why the fbi launched its investigation into possible connections between the trump campaign and russia. >> he writes cables back to his government describing the meeting. and in the cables, he gives specific information that you

guys discussed, not only that the russians have dirt on hillary, but that mifsud had actually offered help in coordinating the release of the e-mails. this is what came up in the meeting, that you told him everything mifsud had told you, and that it was not just hey, we've got some e-mails. it's hey, let's work together to release the e-mails. is that an inaccurate description? >> i have no recollection of talking about that at all. >> i have no recollection of talking about that at all. it's a little weird, right? he is not saying no, that didn't happen. dude, i was there. i'd remember. it's just one gin and tonic. he's not saying didn't happen. he is saying he can't remember that happening. did he previously remember that happening but he has since forgotten what he used to remember? did he never remember what happened that night at all? does he remember that night and know that that didn't happen, but for some reason he is saying he doesn't remember it instead of just denying that it happened? hmm? we knew this was coming because

"the new york times" reported on friday that papadopoulos was not denying this whole story, but at least forgetting this whole part of the story. now as of tonight, we can hear him doing so, and he is also tonight continuing with this line of argument, or at least this weird dodge. online tonight, he said sarcastically, yeah, quote, i supposedly told that individual, meaning alexander downer, about e-mails. quote, something i have no recollection ever discussing. i can't make -- honestly, i can't make heads or tails of george papadopoulos. literally, if i was strong enough to pick him up in the air, i don't know if he would land head up or head down. i have no idea. he is on his way to prison. and now we don't necessarily understand why, but now on his way to prison, he is trying to change the public perception of how the fbi started investigating whether the trump

campaign was colluding with prussia. we do not know why he is doing that, and he is doing it with this weird "i don't recall" thing. we don't know why he is doing it. but here is a hunch as to how we are going to find out why he is doing this. and that is the other thing i said to watch for today and in coming days. axios.com is reporting today that as early as this week, the president is going to order the declassification of more documents about the start of the fbi's russia investigation. quote, president trump is expected to declassify as early as this week documents covering the u.s. government surveillance of trump campaign adviser carter page and the investigative activities of senior justice department lawyer bruce ohr. carter page, you remember him, we now know he was the subject of court-ordered surveillance after he left his role as an adviser to the trump campaign. and carter page really is someone who was caught up in a russian spy ring. court records from a federal prosecution several years ago reveal his enthusiastic

engagement with three dudes who were literally charged as russian spies operating out of new york city. two of them got away back to moscow. one of them got caught and went to prison for being a russian spy. and in his case, carter page had a starring role as a targeted asset for that russian spying ring in that criminal case. that's why it's always been a little hard to understand why republicans in the white house have tried to make carter page their poster child for how wrong-headed it is for anybody to suspect that the trump campaign might have any ties to russia. dude, anybody who hired carter page -- this guy really was caught up in a russian spy ring. he inexplicably ended up with a job on the trump campaign he appeared completely unqualified for. and then he kept taking trips to russia and meeting with russian officials thereafter. he is not the world's greatest argument for why it's crazy anybody would suspect any trump campaign involvement in a russian government effort to elect donald trump president. but the application for those surveillance orders against

them, when it came to carter page, those applications did require the government, the fbi to spell out the basis of their ongoing investigation. and so republicans in the trump white house apparently want to declassify and release that information that was used to get the surveillance warrant against him because they want to, i think, sort of further cloud the issue of why the fbi started investigating the trump campaign and russia in the first place. what was the basis for opening that investigation. and now this reporting at axios suggests that we should expect the president to order the declassification of those documents soon. and the other thing that trump is apparently going to declassify soon is documentation of the, quote, investigative activities of senior justice department lawyer bruce ohr. and if carter page being a good guy when it comes to the russia scandal is a weird peg to try to

hang your hat on, bruce ohr being a bad guy when it comes to the russia scandal is an even weirder peg to try to hang your proverbial hat on. bruce ohr, you see him drinking coffee on the right. he was one of the top experts on russian organized crime is head of the organized crime and racketeering session for the whole doj. his specialty was international organized crime. one of the things he pulled off in the justice department was bringing a u.s. criminal indictment against the godfather of all godfathers, the head of the russian mob. bruce ohr was one of the u.s. officials in 2006 who figured out a way to ban a powerful putin-linked oligarch named oleg deripaska from entering the united states. they banned him from getting a visa based on his alleged ties to russian organized crime, and based on fears that deripaska might be coming to the u.s. specifically to launder russian mob money into u.s. real estate. that was 2006. that's when they blocked him

from coming to the u.s. 2006. around the time that oleg deripaska was doing lots of business with trump campaign chair paul manafort overseas, was right around the time the ap reports that paul manafort entered into a $10 million a year contract with oleg deripaska to promote the interests of russian president vladimir putin and his government. well we have since learned from further "new york times" reporting that almost a decade later, almost a decade after bruce ohr as the senior justice department official working on russian organized crime, nearly a decade after he participated in this u.s. effort to ban oleg deripaska from being allowed to come to the united states by denying him a visa, nine years down the road, nine years after that in 2015, that same justice department official, bruce ohr was instrumental in bringing deripaska to the united states on purpose. they'd been blocking him from setting foot in this country since 2006. in 2015 they decide they would

give him a visa and invite him over. why? according to dramatic reporting from ken vogel and matt rosenberg, the reason they allowed deripaska to come here after all those years of banning him is because they wanted to have is a little talk with him. they wanted to try to flip him. they wanted to try to persuade him to start working for u.s. law enforcement and intelligence. they wanted him to start informing against vladimir putin and russian organized crime. quote, u.s. justice department official bruce ohr attended the meeting with deripaska in 2015, during which time the americans pressed deripaska on connections between russian organized crime and mr. putin's government. they were trying to flip him. it did not work. deripaska refused another meeting and reportedly told the kremlin about that failed approach from u.s. law enforcement that was in 2015. they apparently went back at him again in 2016 and trying again and again. but now this president and his republican supporters in congress are apparently poised

to try to destroy that justice department official by name. we are told to expect a leak of classified information or the declassification of information related to bruce ohr's work. and they will presumably use that declassified information selectively to try to make him look terrible somehow. all indications are that they will try to use bruce ohr in wh whatever they're about to declassify on him as a means of declassing the russia investigation. the top expert on russian organized crime who has been pushing all these uncomfortable questions about putin and organized crime and the russian government. imagine how happy they will be when trump declassifies all of bruce ohr's investigative activities. imagine how happy they will be when they blow his sources in the process. imagine how happy they will be to blow up the career of the top russian organized crime expert at the u.s. justice department who has been intensely and

personally focused for years on the links between russian organized crime and the putin government. imagine how happy they will be to blow up that guy specifically. whose interests will that most serve? more ahead. stay with us. advil presents a big breakthrough in pain relief. advil liqui-gels minis. a mighty small pill with concentrated power that works at liquid speed. you'll ask... what pain? advil liqui-gels minis.

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pro-trump house republicans have been clamoring for him for a while now. they reportedly are about to get their wish. axios.com is now reporting that president trump is about to order the declassification of a batch of documents, quote, covering the u.s. government's surveillance of trump campaign adviser carter page and the investigative activities of senior justice department lawyer bruce ohr. carter page is the trump campaign adviser who came under fbi surveillance for his repeated contacts with russian operatives. he was surveilled under fisa regulations that require the government to show that they believe the target of the surveillance is an active foreign agent. bruce ohr, on the other hand, is a justice department official whose work has made him one of the top experts in the u.s. government on russian organized crime and its ties to the

kremlin, including one dramatic instance in which bruce ohr reportedly met with a russian oligarch named oleg deripaska and tried to convince him to become a cooperate were u.s. law enforcement against the russian government. the president has been sending angry tweets about bruce ohr for weeks now. last month, house republicans summoned ohr for closed door testimony. but now we're told to expect the president to release classified information from ohr's, quote, investigative activities. joining us now is congressman jim himes who is a member of the house intelligence committee. congressman, thanks very much for being with us. >> hi, rachel. >> what is your reaction to this reporting from axios that the president is going to declassify these materials? first of all, i should mention that it's just axios reporting this. other people aren't matching this reporting. i don't know if that means they're just ahead of the story or maybe they've caught on to something that isn't going to happen. do you have expectations about this? >> well, i'm certainly intrigued

by it. i'm intrigued by it because of course they've declassified other stuff that had no business being out there in the public realm. you remember the fisa affidavits that they assured us were going to show this all got started because of the steele dossier. the reason i'm intrigued by it, every time they have declassified documents, it turns out that the truth, the actual documents completely rebut their point. when we got a look at the fisa affidavit, it turns out that lo and behold, it was really all about george papadopoulos who you were talking about earlier, bragging about meeting russians who were talking about having e-mails. so i'm intrigued by it because documents and the truth are not the republicans' friends on this issue. so i worry, quite frankly, that if they do declassify, and when i say "that. >>" it would be the president,f course, it would be done in a way that slams the truth. the truth is not their friend. >> who do you make of the targeting of bruce ohr in particularer? what axios is reporting is there

are two sets of documents coming out, one that relates to carter page. we've already had a bunch of that declassified already. but also, the investigative work of bruce ohr. given bruce ohr's expertise and his past work in the justice department, are you at all concerned? i certainly am intrigued myself as to why they're single him out in way that i'm expecting to be designed to destroy his career. >> well, you know, a couple things. number one, there is a reason why police and public officials don't typically talk about what's happening inside an investigation, because inside an investigation, you have law enforcement people, policemen, fbi agents doing things like following hunches and getting to dead ends. until you're actually ready to go to court, nothing's ready are. so that's why if you just sort of start pell-mell releasing papers you could create an impression that is not true. but i got to tell you, rachel, this is infuriating, right? bruce ohr, by all account, and by the way, at some point i hope

they release his testimony, because i heard that his testimony last week actually completely rebutted the notion that he was doing anything untoward. but bruce ohr is just the latest guy whose career the president is intent on ending. this a 30-year professional, an expert on the russian mob. a guy that we could actually use having his career ended. and i say that tonight, rachel, with particular passion, because tomorrow morning between 8:00 and 9:00, we're going to remember 17 years to the minute of the attack by terrorists on 9/11 and thousands of lives lost. why have we not had another event like 9/11 in this country? i speak with some authority with six years on the intelligence committee when i say the reason we have not had an attack like the one that struck us 17 years ago is because of bruce ohr and thousands and thousands of people like him in doj and fbi and cia and everywhere else, all of whom are fair game for this president to spin his lies and

ultimately harm those organizations that have kept us more or less safe for 17 years. >> congressman jim himes of connecticut, thank you for being with us tonight, sir. much appreciate your time. >> thank you, rachel. >> all right. we've got a lot more to get to tonight. do stay with us. we're gonna have to start from scratch. we need to fail down here so we don't fail up there. this isn't just another trip, neil. we have serious problems. do you think you're coming back? five... four... three... two... first man. rated pg-13. but let's be honest, nobody likes dealing with insurance. which is why esurance hired me, dennis quaid, as their spokesperson because apparently, i'm highly likable. see, they know it's confusing. i literally have no idea what i'm getting, dennis quaid. that's why they're making it simple, man in cafe.

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court nomination of brett kavanaugh. kavanaugh is a historically unpopular choice. his polling numbers are worse than harriet miers or robert bork, who nominees whose were so unpopular they didn't even make it close to the court. kavanaugh's nomination has less support than either of them. in addition, though, specifically senators murkowski and collins are both pro-choice and his staunch anti-abortion will give them pause on roe v. wade alone. they may have some over specific issues with kavanaugh beyond that. you can see evidence of that in some of the questions directed at have gnkavanaugh last week. mazie hirono calling out his hostility for programs for native hawaiian islands, and by extension, programs for native alaskans. that effort from mazie hirono was leading to a very key political consideration for lisa murkowski up in alaska, mainly that senator murkowski owes her

job to the supports and the votes and the money of native alaskans. in 2010, lisa murkowski, you might remember, she got primaried from the right. she actually lost the republican primary in alaska for her own seat to a pharr right challenger. in order to try to keep her seat in the senate, she had to run as a write-in, which is almost impossible to win, right? but her most stalwart allies in that political storm were native alaskans who stood by her with votes and not incidentally, a ton of last-minute money for ad buys. she told them at the time "i will fight for you as long as i am able." she owes her seat in the senate to the native alaskan communities, and they are now reminding her of that in the local press in alaska, and also in the hallways of the senate where they are delivering the message that her vote to confirm kavanaugh could, quote, be a death knell for native alaskans. that's some of the pressure on senator murkowski from native alaskan voters who saved her

bacon in 2010. do not vote to confirm brett kavanaugh. as for senator collins in maine, we've talked on this show about the voluminous and somewhat unnerving evidence that came out last week that brett kavanaugh may have lied under oath about a range of issues, including whether he received documents that were stolen from senate democrats, and whether he used those documents to help bush nominees get through the senate. senator collins went home for the weekend, saying she remains undecided on the brett kavanaugh nomination, but she also told her local paper this, quote, if in fact judge kavanaugh was not truthful, then obviously that would be a major problem for me. our next guest is someone who was right there inside that fight at the time. she says some of her own work is what was stolen and given to brett kavanaugh, and tonight she is ready to talk. that's next. (vo hand) can we talk?

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published this little tomahawk missile. the author argued that instead of debating whether or not to confirm brett kavanaugh to the supreme court, quote, the better question is whether he should be impeached from the federal judiciary. e-mails revealed in the confirmation process for kavanaugh shows he appeared to have repeatedly lied under oath whether to have received letters stolen from democratic staffers in a democratic scandal during the bush administration. judge kavanaugh said under oath he never was aware of anything like that, even though we now know one of the e-mails he received in the bush white house and forwarded to others literally had as its subject line the word "spying." and then the e-mail contained a whole raft of software information from democrats about the nominees in the senate. back to the piece in slate. quote, even if kavanaugh can claim he didn't have any hint at the time he received these e-mails that these documents

were of suspect provenance, there is no way for him to assert honestly that he had no way to assert what they were after the revelation of the theft. quote, any reasonable person would have realized they had been stolen, and certainly someone as smart of kavanaugh would have too, but he lied under oath. he should not be confirmed. he should clearly be impeached. the author of that indictment is lisa graves. she is a former senate lawyer who wrote some of those still len democratic document, the ones that brett kavanaugh said he never suspected could have been stolen. joining us now is lisa graves. ms. graves, thank you very much for being with us tonight. it's nice to have you here. >> thank you so much. >> so this story, which you have detailed to a degree that i think makes it very understandable on slate.com as of last week, it has really started to catch on as maybe the key hang-up, the key problem that emerged during the kavanaugh confirmation hearings. so you feel like the public discussion about this now, the

political discussion of this now accurately characterizes what kavanaugh did wrong? >> well, i think more and more people are learning about it. as you know, the hearings have been rushed forward. and so many documents have not been seen. in fact, 100,000 pages or more have not been seen. but from the documents that have been provided, including documents that came out just last week, it's clear that manuel miranda provided documents, talking points, materials that were taken from, stolen from democratic staff, and he gave them to him during this incredibly intense fight over bush's judicial nominees. and so one of the memos i know personally contains page after page, paragraph after paragraph of my research, the research i prepared for senator patrick leahy, research on the most intense fight we were having a about the nomination which involved the legal precedents, the historical precedents for the memos that the senate

democrats have requested. and what manuel miranda provided to brett kavanaugh alone in one of those e-mails is chapter and verse of those strategic pieces of research, many of which have never been published before until this past week in connection with the senate judiciary committee hearing. and so i am convinced by that and some of the other documents provided that brett kavanaugh lied repeatedly under oath to the united states senate about these matters. also for the integrity of the united states senate itself. >> now when questioned about these matter, particularly with particular aggression from senator leahy this past week, one of the defenses that brett kavanaugh raised was that he wouldn't have recognized these as stolen documents because there was an atmosphere on the judiciary committee and in the senate at the time of nonpartisan, bipartisan sharing of information. and so if he saw anything that was marked as or indicated that it had come from the democratic

side, he would have assumed that it would have been voluntarily shared because it was a more bipartisan time. what's your reaction to that from him? >> that's utter falsehood when it came to judicial nominations. and in fact you see from the materials that have been provided that have escaped the grasp, in essence, of the administration, which is trying to keep these documents secret, you can see that the information was provided by miranda to kavanaugh relate to the most controversial, most heated battles over these nominees, these very controversial nominee, including nominees who had records of being incredibly anti-choice nominees. but leaving aside the substance of, that what's quite clear is everyone who was in those battles, including brett kavanaugh himself, quite frankly, including the white house which was fighting tooth and nail to try to break the filibuster of the senate democrats, to try to force us to move forward with those nominees, this was not an atmosphere in which people were sharing their strategic research, their talking points,

their whip counts. their letters, their strategies with manuel miranda or the other republicans in the senate. it was enormous battle throughout that year, and his statements only underscored how untruthful he's being in this hearing and in his prior hearings. >> lisa graves, former senate lawyer who wrote some of the documents that were stolen from senate democrats. during the george w. bush administration, some of these documents that brett kavanaugh does appear to have lied about under oath. thank you for helping us understand the story tonight, lisa. it's nice to meet you. thanks for being here. >> thank you so much. >> all right. we'll be right back. stay with us.

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maria butin ezcurrently in jail in washington, d.c. on charges she was with a russian operation in the united states. she was in court today trying to convince a federal judge to release her on bond while she waits to be tried. turns out, though, the judge had something very specific she wanted to take up with butina's lawyer at the start of the hearing. we've got the transcript. i want to say at the outset that my chambers received videos they wanted to see, and mr. driscoll, i want to tell you that's now how i want to proceed. in the future i will be having a

deadline of the night before a hearing for submissions but there was a deadline in this case. i have a full calendar this morning. i do not like and will not accept submissions hours before a motion. i can tell you having viewed them that i'm not sure what on earth on relevance is to ms. butina's risk of flight. but i have reviewed thel. for the record, the first, one of the videotapes is a video of ms. butina and her boyfriend lip-syncing i believe in what appears to be in a recording studio to the theme song beauty and the beast, is that correct, mr. driscoll. butina's lawyer says, that is correct. did you have me leave an important meeting to watch a

video of your client lip-syncing the beauty and the beast? this is the video that butina's lawyer felt was so urgent for the judge to watch. he said this video shows that maria butina has a very serious relationship with that older american man, and she's not using him in a political context to benefit the russian government. therefore if she's gnat in love, she wouldn't be a flight risk if let out of jail. this is how the judge responded today. quote, well, the court does not find these videos to be at all relevant on the issuef of ms. butina's risk of flight and that is the court's primary concern to bond status, but i've reviewed the tapes, for the record. the judge then denied ms. butina's motion and ordered she be locked up until the trial. because despite her love of

disney tunes, which was conclusively proven by her lawyer, the judge told her and her lawyer she is still considered to be a flight risk. we'll be right back.

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stormy daniels case. at least it's inexplicable to me. they've sued over a nondisclosure agreement she signed before the election in, and she shaeb suing to scrap that deal so she will no longer be bound by it. >> late on friday night michael cohen said he'd agree to tear up the agreement all stormy has to do is pay back the 130 grand. and on friday president trump's lawyer in this case also agreed to tear up the agreement. why? and why did it happen in quick secession like that? is this over, and how does this relate to michael cohen saying that payment was actually a campaign financial felony he was directed to commit by president trump? well, so far stormy daniels' lawyer, michael avenatti, is rejecting the offer, tearing into trump on twitter over the

say -- now saying he'll let the mba go away. i don't know, it sort of seems like michael cohen and donald trump are working together again, at least their lawyers are on this case. these happened in quick secession. we are not really sure what the implications of this are. if stormy daniels is in fact winning here her lawyer actually seems not happy about it. why is that? well, the good news is you're about to find out straight from the horse's mouth because michael avenatti is coming up live on "last word" with lawrence o'donnell. good evening, lawrence. >> good evening, rachel. and i'm going to time this so you can get home in time to watch michael avenatti. he's not going to be on at the top of the show. those are all my questions this weekend, and because i had time today flying down from toronto i which he'll time to