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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  September 14, 2018 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT

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. that buzz does it for the beat. there's a lot more special coverage on starting with hardball with chris matthews up next. >> witness for the prosecution. let's play "hardball. kwtsd. >> good evening. i'm steve kornacki in for chris matthews. we're following two big stories tonight. the carolinas are feeling the effect offense tropical storm florence. we're going to get to our breaking coverage of that storm and its impact in a moment. first, to the explosive news out of special counsel's investigation. after his conviction in virginia last month in an imminent trial,
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paul manafort struck a deal with robert mueller's team. a deal that could have big implications for the russia probe. the campaign chairman pleading guilty to two federal counts filed in washington, d.c. and also admitting his guilty on charges that a jury in virginia last month could not settle on. he's now obliged to cooperate with prosecutors in full which appears flipping against the president potentially as the plea makes clear manafort must cooperate in any and all matters as to which the government deems cooperation relevant. in his first statement reacting to today's development, donald trump lawyer, rudy giuliani saying an investigation concludesed with a plea having nothing to do with president trump or the trump campaign. the reason, the president did nothing wrong and paul manafort will tell the truth. minutes later rudy giuliani revised that statement and removed the language at the end
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that stated paul manafort will tell the truth. one way to read that is it could be an indication of the trump team is bracing for testimony for manafort detrimental to the president. he's become the fifth trump campaign associate to cooperate with the special counsel after pleading guilty to charges. that includes michael cohen who was been talking to the mueller team according to a new report from vanity fair out late today. joining me now is tom winter, investigations reporter for nbc news. barbara mcquacquaid. tom, let me start with you. just in terms of laying out the road forward for manafort, the guilty plea and what sounds like an open ended cooperation agreement. every question is on the table. he can't say i don't want to answer anything. >> the agreement is clear. federal law enforcement agents
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is speak to him, government attorneys can speak to him. they can have him in front of a grand jury. they can him in trial. it's really open ended. it's toward the bottom of the plea agreement is that paul manafort has already offered, either he or his attorney has given a written proffer that means that paul manafort or his attorney has already told the mueller team, hey, this is kind of general sense of what i have here. that's typically what those written proffer agreements bring. that was on tuesday of this week. there's indications they started having discussions on monday. this is not a situation where mueller is coming into the office on monday saying what does paul have. >> when you say proffer, do we know, do we have a sense of what that might pertain to? he's saying i have something that's useful, in what specific area. >> typically the ways these are laid out, these are the general
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topics. usually an attorney will do that. this is what paul manafort might be able to speak to. at that point, typically, then you would bring in the defendant and in this case you would bring in paul manafort and say we understand you want to talk about this. tell us a bit about what happened on that day. you want to kind to test that person's knowledge and see how they will talk with you and see if they will come forward and provide those dell ta provide those details. we don't have that. it will be under lock and key under mueller's team. >> we have maybe someone who can shed some light on that next step. from the mueller team standpoint, thaiey've got this
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cooperation agreement, what next for them? >> they have been proffered the topic. these are things that paul manafort knows about. i would imagine a series of meetings where they would spend considerable amounts of time going over every one of those topics drilling down in detail, showing him document, con fronting him with the testimony of other witnesses to determine the veracity of what he has to say. they want to not only know the whole story but make sure it's all true. they will test it against other witness testimony they had. it will be exhausting process. they spend lots howevers with paul manafort, sitting down, combing through documents and probing the extent of all knows. they may come back to him as they learn other things. >> in terms of what he may know, what he may be able to shed light on, the usefulness he may
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be able to provide. manafort could provide information about any potential conspiracy between the trump campaign and the russian government. that's something we know mueller has been looking at. he was among those top campaign officials who attended the june 2016 meeting with russians at trump tower. manafort may know about the changes made to the 2016 republican convention platform that weakened the language on u.s. assistance to ukraine since he was among the earliest to deny the campaign was responsible. >> everybody on the platform committee said id came from the trump campaign. if not you, who? >> it absolutely did not come from the trump campaign. i don't know who everybody is. i guarantee you -- >> nobody from the trump campaign wanted that change in the platform? >> no one. zero. >> a republican delegate later
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told npr the trump campaign was involved in that platform change. manafort also offering unconvincing denial when it came to trump's potential dealing relationships with russian oligarchs. >> mr. trump has no financial relationships with any russian oligarchs oligarchs ? >> that's what he said. that's what our position is. >> manafort was also in touch with a business partner maintained quote ties to a russian intelligence service throughout 2016. in terms of the potential areas here and we don't know yet what mueller might be looking at here but there's a broad range of russia related topics that the manafort name comes up in. >> the biggest one being the 2016 trump tower meter. if you're mueller and i want to someday finish this
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investigation, you really needed to speak with manafort. even if he doesn't have anything that can lead to another prosecution, his testimony in knowing everything that he knew is essential because you have to turn over all of these rocks to make sure that you've run down every lead. just by simply cooperating, he helps move mueller along. >> barbara, that raises a question of what michael is saying. from the standpoint of mueller to agree to a deal like this, but my understanding is this doesn't look like a lot of prison time many future for paul manafort. to agree to this kind of deal, do you have a high degree of likelihood not only he's going to sit down and talk to you but you're going to get from that actionable items. items that will be helpful in a potential case you're building? >> i think so. that's the reason for the proffer. you don't agree until you know the person has information you might be interested in.
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we think of cooperation as providing substantial assistance in the investigation and prosecution of other people. you know a snitch to sort of get somebody else. you can also get cooperation credit if you provide information that has intelligence value. if you can provide information about what russia's game plan was in reaching out to the trump campaign during the election, that also has value. depending on what those things are, no doubt whatever it is that manafort and his lawyers have suggested through the proffer that is something that robert mueller assessed has value to him. >> we know the president was out there praising before today's developments. the president was praising paul manafort for not buckling, for not giving in, for not cutting any kind of deal when his former business partner rick gates turned that deal. turned on paul manafort. he made a suggestion he found to
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be honorable course. do we know what brought it about? what did mueller say to him to bring this about? >> we don't know for sure. that conversation would be extremely closely held. one thing we can safely assume could be part of the calculus here is just the financial strain of going through this kind of protracted federal investigation. manafort was facing the potential loss of a host of his properties, a host of money he has this bank accounts. the automatic substantial expenses there as well as the coa cost of legal fies. hiring legal attorneys through protracted federal trials is really expensive. people in manafort's inner circle have been saying this process of being federally prosecuted is financially onerous to him. h it's hard to see how he would
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get financial resources. safe to say a significant part was just the financial burden of having to pay for lawyers to represent him through a second trial. >> michael, i thought that change in the statement from rudy giuliani that we put up there today was very striking. at the end of it, originally saying they have confidence that manafort would sell the truth. deleting it and sending the statement back out. >> they don't want that to come back out where the testimony has shown and they say here is rudy giuliani saying he's going to be truthful. they're trying to protect their blind side. yet another just bad development here today. i think sometimes we lose track of all of the things that have added up against the president. with cohen and now this, mueller will have full control over manafort and manafort will be trying to prove to mueller how much he is helping them. i just don't know how that's a good development. >> do we know what's going on -- there's been so much talk before
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today's developments this was building towards a pardon, a presidential pardon of paul manafort. that's how you could read the comments that trump was putting out. in terms of how the white house is processing this, do we have an insnieight? >> we don't. we know that's something that mueller is looking at itself. if this would set up a very interesting thing where if manafort had things against the president and the president tried to pardon him, would that be part of obstruction. >> tom, we mentioned this too in terms of what paul manafort is facing now after this deal, eight convictions last month in virginia. very little, maybe no prison time. is that possible there ? >> the only thing he's plead to
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is part of this agreement is just two counts in washington, d.c. according to the plea agreement, if we get to the end of this, if he hand broken any furt further and all the virginia charges get dismissed. aul all the washington, d.c. charges get dismissed. paul manafort has been in jail for several months. that may come into the picture when it comes time for the judge to sentence him. she may say you've done a significant amount of time served. it may only be six months, a year. it may be less than that. i think when you look at the heart of it, this is why it raises some questions as to whether or not manafort has anything to significantly offer is it's only going to be two charges that he pleads to at the end of the day. i think that's something we'll have to watch. to mike's point, i think that paul manafort's knowledge of russian oligarchs, knowledge of
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ukraine and how things work in that part of the world, how money is moved, he might be able to provide information that may never lead to a specific prosecution but might help them go down some avenues that might be fruitful for them. >> we mentioned how the white house is processing all this. the president donald trump telling the wall street journal i got hit with an artificial witch hunt that should have never happened. betsy, you see the repetition there. i imagine we may be at a turning point. manafort goes from being somebody the president praises to maybe somebody the president speaks about in certain terms. it may seem to be a pivot there the way the president's legal team is talking about manafort and his new found cooperation. people close to the president's team, thinking will say, which is what you would expect them to
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say, they will say the president's legal team isn't worried. they know everything he knows. there's been lots of communication between the president's lawyers and manafort's lawyer. they don't view the president as someone who would be in the cross hair based on any information manafort has. that said, you have to take that with a very sizable grain of salt because of the people who are making those assertions. it's important context here. what i think is important is that the prospect of a manafort pardon had always been something that was very much in the gray area. i spoke to a person close to the president who said that his view of the president's thinking was if the president was going to pardon manafort, it was after the 2020 re-election bid because it was so toxic. >> thank you all for joining us. coming up, the latest on tropical storm florence as the catastrophic storm moves along the east coast. we'll check in with reporters on the ground to get an update. supreme intrigue. chaos and confusion in the
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confirmation process as a new but still unclear allegation surfaces against brett kavanaugh. all of this a week before they are set to vote on the nomination. more on tonight's breaking news. what does paul manafort's cooperation mean for president trump. the hardball round table weighs in on that. will republican voters tire of conspiracy theories. finally, let me finish with an accusation that ended up changing american politics forever. this is hardball. n politics forever. this is hardball irst. i got a leaf right away. a leaf is a hint that is connected to each person in your family tree. i learned that my ten times great grandmother is george washington's aunt. within a few days i went from knowing almost nothing to holy crow, i'm related to george washington. this is my cousin george. discover your story. start searching for free now at ancestry.com
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this wi-fi is fast. i know! i know! i know! i know! when did brian move back in? brian's back? he doesn't get my room. he's only going to be here for like a week. like a month, tops. oh boy. wi-fi fast enough for the whole family is simple, easy, awesome. in many cultures, young men would stay with their families until their 40's. welcome back to hardball. now to the storm threatening millions along the east coast. tropical storm florence downgraded a few hours ago but it continues to slowly, slowly creep inland from the carolina coast bringing torrential rain and life threatening storm
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surges. wind gusts up to 85 miles an hour. five deaths have been confirmed as a result of the storm including a mother and her baby when a tree fell on their home. we've seen catastrophic flooding. parts of the region could see as much as 40 inches of rain. rescue teams have been out all day. hundreds are held up in shelters across the area. in south carolina, there were more people than cots available. more than 700,000 in north carolina now without power. at least another hundred thousands in the dark in south carolina. the white house saying that president trump is expected to travel to the storm area next week. let's go to tammy lightener. you're in the middle of it right now. we can see what this looks like on the air but set the scene for what it's like to be there in the middle of it right now. >> reporter: even though it's been downgraded to a tropical
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storm, it doesn't feel like here in myrtle beach. they are starting to get hit. the wind has picked up here. it's low tide here in myrtle beach. i want to give you a shot here, a look another the ocean. because the wind is kicking you have, blowing in all dlirection the sea is an angry mess. folks say they have never seen the water like this before. what will be interesting is they spend a lot of money building up these sand dunes behind me. the beaches here in myrtle beach, this is a tourist town, very important to them. these sand dunes are supposed to keep the water from coming up onto the shore. it will be really interesting with the storm surge over the next few hours to see if the sand dunes keep the storm surge from getting up on the coastline.
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they are expecting 20 inches. this rain is supposed to continue through tomorrow. there's a lot of unknowns. how much flooding they will get here in town. we'll be keeping an eye on that throughout the night. back to you. >> all right. tammy right by the water there in myrtle beach. thank you for that. the eye of the storm is expected to be north of myrtle beach within the next hour. residents who did not evacuate the area are now told to shelter in place. joining me now on the phone is the mayor of myrtle beach. mayor, thank you for joining us. let me just ask you on that question of evacuations of getting folks out of there, how successful was that effort to convince people to leave? >> very successful. people listened to the warnings. they took it seriously and they left. the problem we have right now is are we going to be able to get them back. that's just because of the flooding situation that we are facing and the fact that we do
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not have a major interstate to get them home. all of our major roads coming into the city will be flooded within the next three to seven days. >> it sounds like my understanding is we keep getting reports that a couple of downgrade ts s to a tropical st but even in the face of those downgrades there's this slow moving nature of the storm and the intense rainfall that come ts wi with that. >> absolutely the biggest threat is the rainfall. it is not letting up one bit. it's just a very dire situation right now. >> can you think of a parallel in your area, another storm of this magnitude with this kind of potential that you've been through? >> matthew was bad for us. this is so much worse because this storm literally is
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affecting every single road that we have coming into our city. what is so important about that is the fact that people who work in myrtle beach can't get into the city. the businesses that are located in myrtle beach can't get out of the city or will not be able to get to their customers. this is going to hurt us very, very badly. tourism is our number one and only industry. the fact we don't have an interstate to help get people in and out of here, this storm has really brought a lot of things to light for us. >> the mayor of myrtle beach, south carolina. thank you for taking a few minutes and good luck to you. our thoughts with you in the coming hours and days as you brace for the worst of that storm. take a quick break here. up next, the senate judiciary committee will vote on brett kavanaugh in less than a week.
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welcome back. the senate judiciary committee will move ahead with a key vote on the nomination of judge brett kavanaugh despite a cryptic allegation that's injected confusion and new controversy into his supreme court confirmation fight. yesterday senator dianne feinstein issued this statement,
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quote, i've received information from an individual concerning the nomination of brett kavanaugh to the supreme court. that individual strongly requested confidentiallity. i've honored that decision. i've referred that matter to federal investigative authorities. the allegation was sexual in nature. the allegation was quote not specific and dates back to the judge's high school days in the early 1980s. in a statement shared by the white house justice kavanaugh said i categorically deny this allegation. i did not do this back in high school or at any time. the white house issued a statement defending the judge and the vetting process not until the eve of his confirmation has senator fine i finestein or anyone raised the
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spector of new information about him. the fbi has not opened an investigation but added the litter li letter to his background file. thank you both for being with us. let me the start with you in terms of this is very cryptic here. it sounds explosive but we don't know. what are the odds of finding out more about this? >> the letter is not public. let's make it clear. the allegations haven't been substantiated publicly. it's difficult to reveal much information about what is in this letter. our sources match up with nbc sources this doesn't seem to involve a missed conduct of sexual in nature. again, with people are just not talking about it.
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i think that senator fdianne feinstein expressed that she wanted to protect the confidentiality required in this situation. she through a spokesman commented more today says she wants the allegations to be public. she thinks it's important to be aired especially as we barrel towards final confirmation votes for brett kavanaugh in the next two weeks. she also stressed the woman has made it clear that she does not want these accusations to be public. now that makes it very difficult for us publicly to know more about these accusations. judge kavanaugh has denied these allegations and for now that's what we can go with. >> it seems in terms of looking ahead, this has been a conten contentious process. we don't know who the individual is.
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we don't know what the sperveg char -- specific charge is. she's saying that she does not want to come forward.-- specific charge is. she's saying that she does not want to come forward. there needs to be more fleshed out here. what's your read on it? >> the fact there's an accuser and some accusations that doesn't want to be made public is very problematic. if there's an effort to stall or halt the confirmation process to get a little more detail. the republicans on the committee have chairman grassley released his own evidence today. he got 65 signatories on a letter from young women who knew him to attest to what a good guy he was and treated women with respect back then. republicans are ready to fight here even if senator feinstein
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is not willing to come forward with what she has and accuser to knowledge what's going on. >> some of the reporting i've seen, i'm curious what you have heard about this suggest that among the democrats there may be some dissension in terms of how this was handle. this came to the senator's attention over the summer. feinstein didn't chair this with her fell democrats or anyone on the committee, is that your understanding? >> yes. the letter was initially sent to congresswoman of california. that material was relayed to senator feinstein was a of her role on the judiciary committee. we confirm the letter was dated in july. reason why this is coming up now is it privately over the last
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several days some of the democrats had murmurings of a letter. they had senator feinstein for more details. she called this emergency last minute of judiciary committee democrats just off the senate chairm chamber on wednesday night to talk about the matter. publicly, i talked about the handling of all this. i asked him about how she's gone about this and senator told me that she has had -- she supports how she's done this process. she's not out to do a smear job on anyone. she's doing her job with integrity. >> it seems to raise a question here. if you are given this
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information, if you're given this letter and the individual does not want to come forward, doesn't want to be connected with this but it's given to you, how do you handle something like that? >> why it's suddenly emerging now so late in the process? we have talked a lot about prepapr comparing this to a clarence thomas situation. he was very close to being confirmed for a supreme court justice. that opened up a whole enormous new avenue of questioning. you had an accuser who stepped forward. he made her allegations in front of senate committee and took questions about it. that doesn't seem to be the case here unless some change has happened this week that this accuser will step forward. everything may change. we know the republicans very much want him to be on the court. this is a much more partisan senate than back in 1991.
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11 democrats voted for clarence thomas to confirm him. now it's an almost entirely partisan process. it doesn't look like the democrats will step out there and fight on this one unless we have anuser ready to support or senator feinstein decides to take things further and make this public. doesn't seem she wants to at this point. >> very high stakes. thank you both. up next, now what? what does paul manafort's plea deal mean for the russia investigation and the president? you're watching hardball. ion an? you're watching habardll ♪ ooh, heaven is a place on earth ♪ uhp. i didn't believe it. again. ♪ ooh, baby, do you know what that's worth? ♪ i want to believe it. [ claps hands ] ♪ ooh i'm not hearing the confidence. okay, hold the name your price tool. power of options based on your budget! and! ♪ we'll make heaven a place on earth ♪
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one of the reasons i respect paul manafort so much is he went through that trial. they make up stories. people make up stories. this whole thing about flipping, they call it, i know all about
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flipping for 30, 40 years. i've been watching flippers. everything is wonderful and they get ten years on jail and they flip on whoever the next highest one is. it almost out to be outlawed. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was president trump praising paul manafort on his conviction of financial charges last month. now mfrvrt manafort had flipped. it could pose new legal jeopardy for the president and his campaign team. he denied any wrong doing. said the case had nothing to do with him saying i got hit with an artificial witch hunt that should have never happened. joined by the hardball roundtable. i guess i'm trying to gauge how
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today's development when manafort stacks up with everything else we've seen in the russia probe. last month it was the news with michael cohen. now there's another report from vanity fair that michael cohen may be talking to mueller's team. the news that manafort has struck this deal and the news he has a cooperation agreement, is this the most significant development we have seen yet? >> i think possibly. the prosecutors is keeping his cards so close to his vest that it's hard no know what he's extracting out of these agreements. there's three things that could be important here. the manafort can speak to the trump tower meeting which is critical any question of collusion or conspiracy. second, he's close to roger stone or used to be and can speak to the question of wikileaks and the podesta e-mails. he's a font of knowledge about russian oligarchs and the wealth in the u.s. and abroad. >> we had on this network earlier today, i was
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interviewing alan dershowitz. i was struck by what he said today. he said this was a big win for bob mueller. he said this opens new doors for bob mueller and his tone in terms of the implications, it seemed to me to be different than what we have been hearing from somebody who has been defending trump from a legal standpoint in the court of public opinion. do you view this as different in nature? >> well, i think nick has laid out a list of possibilities. i'll add another because paul manafort worked and collaborated for years with john podesta. knows a lot about the interactions of russians with hillary clinton when she was secretary of state. half a million of dollars went to hillary clinton. >> is there any indication that
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is where -- >> we don't know. it's endless. we have a situation which this investigation could go kind of anywhere robert mueller wants to take it. we don't know. we know every bit of evidence that's been made public to date does not support a claim that the trump campaign collaborated with, colluded with the russians. that's the most salient point. the walls are closing in on folks on the doj and the fbi and beyond. >> let's stick on today's though. this question of was there collusion, was kind of relationship was there. if there was any kind of relationship with the trump campaign and russians. it seems if there's case to be built there, this would be the key to have paul manafort cooperating and being a i believe to answer any question that mueller has. >> that's right. as nick pointed out, we don't know all that bob mueller knows
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at this point. let's be clear. this is the fifth trump aide or adviser who has pleaded guilty or been convicted in relationship with this special counsel probe. there's more to come most likely. what i'm curious about as well is what mfranafort might be abl to tell bob mueller about how he came to serve for free on the trump campaign when he was in debt. >> president trump tweet yesterday that the death toll in puerto rico was being inflated by democrats to quote make him look bad. brought swift condemnation for two republican candidates in florida. governor rick scott tweeted i agree with potus in independent
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study. ron desantis said in a statement he doesn't believe any loss of life has been inflated. late today trump again questioned the puerto rico death estimate saying they say all these people died in a storm in puerto rico yet 70% of the power was out before the storm. when did people start dying? at what point do you recognize that what they are doing is a political agenda couched in a nice language of journalism. you've been a republican candidate for office. if you're a republican candidate for officer in 2018, is there any way this has a positive effect on your campaign? >> every candidate runs his or her own campaign in the environment in which they find themselves. when these candidates can call attention to effectively is what was written the the orlando
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sense sentinal. they praised the trump administration's efforts which have been extraordinary. we've never invested this much in recovery of anything. >> the way she's choohe's choos bring this up. he goes back to puerto rico and starts talking about the democrat, this is the media. is that a message republicans are comfortable with their president running on? >> i think it's fair to say that much of the media has tended to cast whatever the president does in a negative light. the fact is that the reasons that have be -- resources that have been brought to bear are extraordinary. every department of government that can be mobilized has been. the deputy governor of puerto rico has taken pains to praise
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the administration after the initial tweets came through because he understands what's important. what's important is the results. >> it's striking to me to show the comments from the republican candidates down there. they are both in winnable races. scott's approval rating with puerto rico voters has been high relative to what you might expect for a republican down there. seems they don't see it as good politics. >> what trump said is terrible for families of those who died and terrible for him as a politician. it's going to come back and haunt him if he republicans for re-election. it's not going to hurt rick scott. he understands those voters are important to him. he has spent about a year now cultivating them, reaching out to them, trying to invite services to those refugees from the islands who are in floridaf. >> the round table is staying with us. up next, these three will tell me something i don't know. thesl
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treatment proven to reduce pba episodes. this is not a screensaver.game. this is the destruction of a cancer cell by the body's own immune system, thanks to medicine that didn't exist until now. and today can save your life. ♪ ♪ . and we're back with the "hardball" round table. >> more people voted in yesterday's new york democratic primary, which was about 1.6 million democrats, more people voted yesterday than voted for andrew cuomo alone when he won in 2014. >> he won yesterday, but huge turnout all around.
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>> new york has not one but two great candidates running to be our first african-american attorney general, and i'll call attention to keith waford came from a working class family in buffalo. the right ideas for new york, definitely would be history making and deserves people's support. >> the new york republican being a good team player. >> new york fact for yesterday, if andrew cuomo goes on to win the election in november, he will have held the governor's office for 24 of the last 40 years as of 2022. >> cuomo dominance. >> more people voted for cynthia nixon yesterday. >> than in 2014. >> in a losing cause. >> enormous. mara gay, thank you for being here. when we return, the supreme court confirmation and the
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explosive allegation that changed american politics forever. this is an insurance commercial. but let's be honest, nobody likes dealing with insurance. which is why esurance hired me, dennis quaid, as their spokesperson because apparently, i'm highly likable. see, they know it's confusing. i literally have no idea what i'm getting, dennis quaid. that's why they're making it simple, man in cafe. and more affordable. thank you, dennis quaid. you're welcome. that's a prop apple. i'd tell you more, but i only have 30 seconds. so here's a dramatic shot of their tagline so you'll remember it. esurance. it's surprisingly painless.
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this. the hearings are over, the votes are lined up, the confirmation of a supreme court justice all but assured. and then an allegation, hazy at
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first, it explodes into public, it had been shielded from everyone, it turns out, even members of the senate judiciary committee. it should call everything into question while republicans suspect a dirty trick. and no, i'm not talking here about the still murky last second drama that's erupted around brett kavanaugh's accusation. it's an accusation that emerged at this exact same moment in almost the exact same way and it ended up changing american politics forever. it was back in the fall of 1991. clarence thomas was george h.w. bush's pick for the supreme court. he was going to swing it to the right, no question about that, and liberals didn't like it. but thomas was a blank slate. they held his confirmation hearings, no one laid a glove on him. that's when the report hit. there'd been a claim of sexual harassment against thomas made by a woman who had been his assistance in the 1980s, anita hill was her name. hill had quietly talked to
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investigators with the senate judiciary committee a month earlier. she signed an affidavit, but she also insisted on remaining anonymous, and because of that the committee's chairman, joe biden, decided not to bring up her accusations during the hearing. but then the affidavit leaked. and when it did, all hell broke loose. women in particular were outraged. why had this all male committee kept all of this quiet? biden reopened the hearings. hill testified. thomas, she said, had subjected her over and over to graphic, unwelcome, and overtly sexual comments. thomas testified again too. he denied everything. and tens of millions of americans watched it all, transfixed by a high stakes political showdown like no one had ever seen before. the details hill offered were vivid and jarring. and thomas's denials were emphatic and bracing. at one point he said he was the victim of "a high tech lynching." every network carried the hearings live. it was the middle of october.
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cbs was supposed to be airing the baseball playoffs, but even they put up a split screen, braves/pirates on one side, hill and thomas on the other side. when it was over, it was a he said/she said controversy. thomas was confirmed, he's still on the court today. but it also set off a backlash, the next year in 1992, women mobilized, they ran for office, supported each other, did it in numbers unheard of, the year of the woman, patty murray, dianne feinstein, many more all made their big leaps in politics in 1992. it was a development that shaped the decade, the decade i write about in my new book "the red and the blue," it's coming out on october 22nd, you can preorder it now. i'm super excited for it. i hope you will. while we're in the midst of another year of the woman right now, 2018, for now whatever the senate judiciary committee was told about brett kavanaugh is very murky. the exact accusation still
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unknown. it goes back more than three decades. we may never learn who the accuser is. it may not deliver a hill/thomas moment. but if you've got a long delivery, it's impossible to look at this and not recognize it was the setup to the 1991 drama. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in". >> paul manafort who really is a nice man, you look at what's going on with him, it's like al capone. >> paul manafort flips. >> that's what he said. that's what i said -- that's obviously what the opposition. >> donald trump's former campaign chairman cuts a deal with the special counsel. >> i think the whole manafort trial is very sad. >> tonight what we know about manafort's surprise agreement, why his lawyer says he's trying to protect his family and what all of this means for the russia collusion case. >> and paul