your hair is so soft! did you use head and shoulders two in one? i did mom. wanna try it? yes. it intensely moisturizes your hair and scalp and keeps you flake free. manolo? look at my soft hair. i should be in the shot now too. try head and shoulders two in one. oscar mayer deli fresh ham has no added nitrates, nitrites or artificial preservatives. now deli fresh flavor is for everyone. like those who like... sweet. those who prefer heat. and those who just love meat. oscar mayer deli fresh. a fresh way to deli. . one of the reasons i respect paul manafort so much, he went through that trial. they make up stories. people make up stories. this whole thing about flipping, they call it. i know about flipping. for 30, 40 years i've been watching flippers. >> are you considering pardoning

paul manafort? >> i have great respect for what he's done what he's gone through. what he did, some of the charges they threw against him, every consultant and lobbyist in washington probably does. >> good morning. welcome to "am joy." it's been an action packed news cycle. the tropical storm still dumping heavy rain on the carolinas and has claimed seven lives. a live report on the storm later on in the show. and brett kavanaugh is facing an allegation of sexual misconduct from when he was in high school. people close to michael cohen say he's talking to mueller's team. and in a development donald trump did not see coming in the investigation, paul manafort is now cooperating with robert

mueller. paul manafort pled guilty to two charges, and admitted guilt to 10 charges in his virginia case. manafort must cooperate fully with the government in any and all matters as to what the government deems the cooperation relevant. that means he has to meet with investigators without a lawyer, he has to turn over documents, testify in court and he won't be sentenced until mueller is satisfied. so mueller has nabbed what may be his biggest fish yet because of what paul manafort could share on key questions in the investigation. did the trump campaign, for instance, get a heads up about the russian hack of democrats in the clinton campaign. did trump know about the infamous meeting with a russian lawyer that paul manafort attended. and what do man for tjoining me

savalos. and professor paul butler. i will come to you for some answers. how significant is it -- i think producers and i have been going back and forth on which of these two cooperators could be more detrimental to donald trump, between michael cohen and paul manafort. for some reason paul manafort felt significant this week. >> paul manafort is more significant to the overall russian investigation that the mueller team is engaged in. michael cohen is more dangerous to donald trump because in open court michael cohen referenced essentially an unindicted co-conspirator in the form of the president and michael cohen's plea answered the question does anybody really care about campaign finance crimes? the answer is they definitely do but police reporaul manafort wa

russia. even if he doesn't have information directly relevant to the president, he may equally have information about russians, ukrainians, anyone in europe that mueller cares about. >> anybody in europe mueller cares about. one thing we know about paul manafort's time running the trump campaign is that he was the campaign chairman at the time that the republican national committee took place, and the only change requested by the trump side was to change that platform in the ukraine plank. paul manafort joins the campaign in march. by may he is promoted to chairman. in june, paul manafort, jared kushner, donald trump and don jr. meet with this russian lawyer in trump tower. in july, paul manafort offers briefings. the rnc platform change in july.

trump's russia if you're listening, that period of time, how much culpability do you think that means? are we at conspiracy? >> i think we need to call clarissa because we found another witch. we all know the quid. manafort can tell us the pr pro quo. we know what trump wanted. he wanted to be president. what did russia want in exchange? was it enough for them to say be racist and incompetent, and we'll call it even. maybe. but maybe they wanted specific things, and paul manafort will know what russia wanted and what russia got. if he gave them stuff and trump knew he was giving them stuff, that should be enough. we know what trump wanted what trump got. we know what russia wanted, we know what russia got. that should be the four corners.

>> manafort has represented bad guys. he represented some pretty tough customers. he wants very much involved in that change of government in ukraine to a more pro-russian government for a while. is that in your view where the danger for him lies or the danger for trump lies? he's the guy who had these direct ties to this pro russian government in ukraine and then it just so happens the ukraine plank gets changed. >> let's look back two years before we all know what happened at the republican national convention. the political season. both donald trump and police report had extensive ties to russia. but we don't know what the money trail connection is. police report now we know was a lobbyist for the ukraine. the government that essentially allowed half of its country to be invaded by russia, taken over by russia. that was a huge international crisis. paul manafort was on the wrong

side of that. donald trump was looking for money, seeking money from russian oligarchs connected to putin. so it's actually the retroactive information of how putin and donald trump really connect to each other through the campaign chairman. this is not a small low-level fish in donald trump's orbit. there is nobody higher in trump's campaign than his campaign chairman who was guiding whim with the same values he used to guide the russians to victory in the ukraine. >> it seems paul manafort has been holding out for some time. he was in two separate trials. there was a mistrial, now he did the plea to everything. it seems what he was holding out for was a pardon. does it surprise you that the dangerous words that could come out of his mouth, jared kushner,

donald trump jr., that trump didn't pardon him? >> what giuliani said on behalf of trump is that any pardons the president issues will be after the investigation. and now it's too late. so paul manafort had a tough choice to make. should he rely on the word of trump, the presumed word of trump, maybe he'll get a pardon. people who rely on trump's word don't do so well. the other concern is if he went to trial in the district of columbia he would owe hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars. so he's getting a good deal compared to being convicted in d.c. and 20 years in prison. now if he offers substantial cooperation, he could do ten years and maybe less. for a 69-year-old man that's a big difference. you're right. paul manafort was the big get.

a lot of resources. 11 months but finally mueller broke paul manafort. >> i'm a layperson, not a lawyer, but i presume you give up somebody higher than yourself to get these deals. the only people higher up the food chain than paul manafort were jared kushner, donald trump jr. and donald trump. didn't he have to tell the mueller team everything he had before getting the pardon? >> that's the condition of any plea agreement. when he came forward in the proffer he had to dazzle the prosecutors enough to believe the information he had was reliable and that it went up the chain of command. i caution everybody, yes, it's possible that it's trump, trtrump jr., jared kushner, but it could also be the other folks in the russian investigation, russians. so it could relate to those people as well.

which would be interesting if manafort has information that's not damaging to the americans above him, but that he really has information damaging only to russians. does he then still appear loyal to president trump and keep the possibility open for a pardon. we can't rule that out. >> i wonder what the value of a pardon is at this point. if he already told what he knows, whatever he told is damaging enough that they were willing to give him a deal. this is even alan said on friday on msnbc. >> there's nothing that he can testify to that would lend weight to impreaeachment because didn't have close contact with president trump while he was president. he did have contact during the campaign. tough question whether or not

alleged crimes committed to get somebody like the president is an impeachable offense or not. i think he was hoping for a pardon, then the question comes up did the president act too late if he was going to harden? he would have done better to pardon early. >> can you commit crimes to become president and it's not impeachable and dewait too loid long? >> alan dershowitz doesn't know anything. he wasn't there. if manafort knows that trump gave russians something in exchange for their help to rig the election, which we know to be a fact, that would be an impeachable offense what is an impeachable offense? whatever the senate and congress thinks is itmpeachable offense.

whether or not paul manafort has anything that will change the mind of lindsey graham -- >> no. >> -- who knows. paul butler, the track record here right now for bob mueller is pretty good. police report convicted. michael flynn pleaded guilty. richard pineda pleaded guilty. 13 russian nationals i dated, you can see he's doing pretty wel well. >> he's a relentless prosecutor. >> there were 10 counts that the virginia jury couldn't agree on. that case was kind of over, but mueller yesterday in court made manafort say those ten things that the jury couldn't agree on, yeah, i committed those crimes as well. he is a relentless prosecutor.

all he does is win. now manafort folded like cohen before him. everyone in his sights mueller gets. that cannot be good news for the president of the united states. >> what is good for the people of the united states is mule ser bringing in the cash. he's secured over $40 million in assets due to asset forfeiture and seizure that now goes right in the coffers. donald trump lost one of his arguments that he made which is that the mueller probe is costing too much money. >> he brought more in forfeiture than the investigation cost, and it may be double or triple. what we're seeing -- so glad you mentioned the money trail. that's the piece that's been missing from public view. we knows there documents. we know donald trump has tax returns that the public has not seen. we know he has a lot of debt. we know that paul manafort was making money off of russian election meddling.

making money off of the thing that the russians have done to the united states and attacked our government and now paul manafort has pled guilty to conspiracy against the united states. you have a campaign chairman who is indicating that the president of the united states is directly connected to a conspiracy against the united states. >> i want to poll the attorneys on the panel and go around the horn. paul butler, on the question that alan dershowitz raised, where he said we don't know whether crimes someone committed to get elected president are actually impeachable. what do you make of that question? do you have an answer to that? >> i think my former professor of criminal law, alan dershowitz is wrong. what the constitution says is high crimes and misdemeanor. if something came out about a president, a worst case scenario that he or she committed a murder before she was in office, and that murder was uncovered,

could that be irrelevant to the congress? should that person remain in office? of course not. high crimes and misdemeanors whenever they occur are game for impeachment. >> not so fast, paul butler. spoken exactly like a former federal prosecutor. and you know, when you give the example of -- imagine a president committed a murder before he was elected. that happened. andrew jackson killed a man in a duel. everybody knew about it, yet he was unimpeachable. it's still an open question. it may not be the case that an official is impeachable for pre-office activities. there's scant history of this. i will admit the academia on it could go either way. reasonable minds could differ, but it's not a sure thing that somebody can be impeached for pre-office activities. and it's just an open question. the fact that someone committed a crime as egregious as murder does not automatically qualify as an impeachable offense

because it hasn't in the past. >> i think andrew jackson did a lot of stuff that he could not get away with in 2018. i don't think that precedent is correct. >> it's a killing. it's murder. >> he was andrew jackson, a genocidal maniac. i don't think he would be elected in 2018. >> a duel wasn't considered murder. >> it wasn't considered the same kind of crime as straight up killing, which shows how far we have come. but it was a crime known to everyone at the time it was committed. like i said, open question, if it's pre-office activity. >> how far we have come but we now have a guy who reveres andrew jackson. >> all right. coming up, it's not just mrof manafort who is dumping trump. the man who said he would defend

trump is now singing like a bird. that's next. it's easy to trust geico! thank you todd. it's not just easy. it's-being-a-master-of-hypnotism easy. hey, i got your text- sleep! doug, when i snap my fingers you're going to clean my gutters. ooh i should clean your gutters! great idea. it's not just easy. it's geico easy. todd, you will go make me a frittata. if you're waiting patiently for a liver transplant, it could cost you your life. it's time to get out of line with upmc. at upmc, living-donor transplants put you first. so you don't die waiting. upmc does more living-donor liver transplants than any other center in the nation. find out more and get out of line today.

>> would have wiped the floor with the guys who were not loyal, which i will now do. which is great. i love getting even with people. i am so loyal to people when someone is slightly disloyal to me, i look at it as a great act of horror. >> a once loyal member of

trump's inner circle may be a bigger headache for trump than he already is. hours after it was said that paul manafort will be cooperating with robert mueller, "vanity fair" reported that it's common knowledge among friends of michael cohen that he, too, has been in contact with the special counsel. let's continue our debate about how hot the water is getting for donald trump. we had this back and forth over whether or not manafort was more dangerous to trump than cohen. you said cohen is more dangerous to trump himself. >> that's correct. because he stood in open court and essentially admitted to a crime he participated in with a person that was essentially a candidate for office, we all know who that was. and it was something that up until that moment, until he pleaded, there was doubts in the minds of many on whether or not the government, would they

really care about it. now we know they care about election crimes. cohen named somebody else, being the president, essentially, as complicit or involved or a co-conspirator in that crime. part who is that he's trump's personal lawyer, has known him forever. he taped him as a lawyer which is unthinkable of to me, he taped his client. he knows everything about trump. manafort, you can make the argue. he doesn't know as much about trump. he only knew him for months. i can't believe i sound like trump now making the same argument. so if you're playing the odds, if you want to guess the most dangerous to trump, maybe not the most beneficial to mueller t has to be cohen. >> i generally agree because cohen knows about the pee pee tape. if that's real, cohen knows about it. that's actually how cohen -- i

generally agree that cohen is more dangerous to trump personally, but that's how cohen gets wrapped up into the russia thing. someone supposedly went to prague -- >> he says he didn't go. >> maybe he went to germany, maybe it wasn't prague. who talked to who about the pee pee tape. that's where cohen shows up. if he knows something about that, that's gross, but it's like that's the connection back into russia. >> we never want to see it. let's listen to lanny davis talking about what cohen knows. >> i can tell you that mr. cohen has knowledge on certain subjects that should be of interest to the special counsel. and is more than happy to tell the special counsel all that he knows. >> paul butler, your view on what it is he could know. normally these campaign finance violation crimes do not result

in jail time or prosecuted that often. they care now because they think he might have something to tell him. >> normally you wouldn't go to jail for a campaign violation unless there's proof of a malicious intent. you know you're doing the wrong thing. it could be that michael cohen has evidence to send president trump to jail after he leaves office just on that. but, joy, he's kind of being double teamed, president trump is, by the southern district investigation, which does seem to be focused on campaign financing, and the mueller investigation. so we don't know what exposure cohen has with regard to collusion. but robert mueller already knows. so the fact that he is talking to cohen means that he thinks cohen might have something that would help him with his own investigation. this is trump's famous fixer. this is the guy who's been with trump for ten years.

this is the guy who has made tape recordings of trump. so he may very well have the goods on obstruction of justice and collusion as well as these other campaign financing violations. >> he's someone who has been loyal to trump and that trump for all the reports has been crappy too, demeaning him, the kind of person you don't want to be mean to. >> he's spurned. >> let's play cohen back in 2011 when he was still on trump's team. >> if there's an issue that relates to mr. trump that is of concern to him, it's of concern to me. and i will use my legal skills within which to protect mr. trump to the best of my ability. nothing shocks me about donald trump at this point usually, but the idea that that's the guy you would be cruel to. it seems so short-sighted. >> you're skinnkind of more

philosophical now, because it doesn't pay to be mean to this guy. this man who knows all your business, all your children's business. it's not a good look. again, we don't know, when you're in that role, we don't know how much you know. we don't know whether or not you were really involved, so it's hard to know what he might really have on trump. but certainly trump's treatment of him has inspired cohen to tell whatever he knows. >> it's like a mob loyalty. donald trump, this is a guy who lost everything, who is facing personal bankruptcy, lost his business, lost his ability to travel, he can only go to florida, d.c., new york. he is facing jail time. emily jane fox has a report out now that he's saying why am i facing all the consequences. donald trump has faced no cones j consequences at all. >> even with the most loyal defendants, think they're gangster style, when they're

faced with the full force of the u.s. government prosecuting them after a while it's a war of attrition, even the michael cohens of this word who swear loyalty oaths to the president or anybody else, they break down. paul butler will tell you this. he's probably done it himself to defendants, but this is how it works. you see the one person who up until this week stood fast and did not take a deal was paul manafort, what ich was a clear signal to trump. if you're going to pardon anybody, pardon me. i am steadfast, i held my ground, and i'm not a snitch. which leads me to believe he may not be a snitch to trump, it may be to the russians, but he's still holding out that hope. >> to that point i have as a

prosecutor stood up in court many times and take rn guiln gu pleas. there was a moment yesterday during paul manafort's guilty employee where mueller's deputy got up and said this is what we would prove about manafort if we had gone to trial. he talked for 40 minutes. then the judge said that's got to be a record. i never heard that kind of statement of proof in a guilty plea. mr. manafort, did you do it? mr. manafort said yes, i did. >> can we see all the people now cooperating or willing to cooperate with robert mueller. they have the former national security adviser, rick gates, manafort himself. i think a lot more crucially is allen weiselberg who we have been told a lot on this set knows trump and reported on him.

he is the cfo of the trump organization. this feels like it's not just about russia but about trump's businesses as well. >> at this point it's easier to talk about who hasn't been charged, convict the and wed an hasn't flipped. the only people on that list have trump in the last name or are married to trump. we're closing in on the circle, closing the circle, and now we're honing in on the core family. >> yeah. >> to use something that i would say to my kid, the cheese stands alone now. >> yeah. >> that's got to be super problematic if you're donald trump. >> who should be the most worried? >> don jr. >> don jr. i agree with you. >> paul butler, who should be the most worried about a guy like you coming after them. >> donald trump jr. >> everybody agrees. if i'm donald trump jr., i may want to get a good lawyer. >> he is the weakest link. >> i love it. i mean, i love that you went out

on that mic drop note. not that he's the weakest link. thank you. always appreciate you coming in. and president trump's supreme court nominee is facing claims of inappropriate sexual behavior. we'll discuss what that means next. friends, colleagues, gathered here are the world's finest insurance experts. rodney -- mastermind of discounts like safe driver, paperless. the list goes on. how about a discount for long lists? gold. mara, you save our customers hundreds for switching almost effortlessly. it's a gift. and jamie. -present. -together we are unstoppable. so, what are we gonna do? ♪ insurance. that's kind of what we do here.

we distributeus, i'm the owner environmentally-friendly packaging for restaurants. and we've grown substantially. so i switched to the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy. and last year, i earned $36,000 in cash back. that's right, $36,000. which i used to offer health insurance to my employees. my unlimited 2% cash back is more than just a perk, it's our healthcare. can i say it? what's in your wallet? a moment of joy. a source of inspiration. an act of kindness. what will it bring? an old friend. a new beginning.

some welcome relief... or a cause for celebration. the help you've been looking for. what's inside? possibilities. what we deliver by delivering. you never listen to your dad when you're a teenager. my dad- he always gave me two pieces of advice. one was to always be humble. and the second was to always do the right thing. now that i'm the new ceo of uber, i've taken that advice to heart. and i'm using that advice to change our company. moving forward, we're taking into consideration what's good for our driver partners, our riders, and the cities that we operate in. and it's going to make us a much, much better service.

on friday the state board of education in texas took a preliminary step towards removing influential figures like hillary clinton, former first lady and hell enken kelle. the board also voted to keep in the curriculum a reference to the heroism of the defenders of the alamo which had been recommended for elimination as well as moses' influence on the writings of the nation's founding documents. friday's vote was preliminary, the board can amend the curriculum changes until a final

vote is taken in november. more "am joy" after the break. ahoy! gotcha! nooooo... noooooo... quick, the quicker picker upper! bounty picks up messes quicker and is 2x more absorbent. bounty, the quicker picker upper.

>> my name is anita f. hill, i'm a professor of law at university of oklahoma. >> it would have been more comfortable to remain silent. it took no initiative to inform

anyone. i took no initiative to inform anyone. but when i was asked by a representative of this committee to report my experience i felt that i had to tell the truth. i could not keep silent. >> 27 years after anita hill came forward to testify that then supreme court justice nominee clarence thomas had sexually harassed her, he was confirmed any way, another supreme court nominee is facing allegations of sexual misconduct. this time made anonymously. in a letter that landed on the desk of united states senator dianne feinstein. a woman alleged judge brett kavanaugh tried to force himself on her while they were in high school in the 1980s. according to the "new york times" citing three courses familiar with the letter and the "new yorker," kavanaugh is denying the allegations saying i

categorically and unquequivocal deny this allegation. i did not do this in high school nor at any other time. there's a lot that's strange here. i want to get to the delay of getting this information that senator feinstein had since july. she had this information, she held this information. she said it was because she wanted to protect the riidentit of this accuser and protect her privacy. is it strange to you that she did not disclose even to the other democratic members of the senate judiciary committee anything about this or question him about it even in closed session? >> yes. that's what i was going to say. i can understand protecting women who come forward, and their identity, and making sure that, you know, like i said, they're protected. but she sat on this for two months, as you stated. she didn't even bring it up behind closed doors of the sexes

th sessions they had with brett kavanaugh. she didn't give it to the fbi when she first heard it. it is troubling in that way. there's things she could have done sooner before today, but at the end of the day it should be about these allegations, they're incredibly troubling. this process has been going way too fast. it was less than 60 days after his nomination. he was already starting a hearing. we should slow this process down. violence should not be allowed in society at all, certainly not at the highest court of our nation. we need to slow this down. this should not be about democrats. this should not be about when it came out. it should be about brett kavanaugh. >> absolutely. we started off playing anita hill who was so brave to come forward. three other women stood by her, ultimately democratic senators

did not call those other three women who would have backed her up and allow her to be heard. anita hill said the reluctance of someone to come forever ward demonstrates even in the me too era it is incredibly difficult to report harassment, abuse or assault by people in power. the senate judiciary committee should put in place a process that enables anyone with a complaint of this nature to be heard. to make it clear what this accuser is alleging is serious. it was a long time ago, but this is the ronan farrow version of the story from the new yorker. it says the allegation dates back to the early 1980s when kavanaugh was a high school student and the woman attended a nearby high school. in the letter the woman alleges that kavanaugh held her down and attempted to force himself on

her. she claims that kavanaugh and a classmate of his turned up music that was playing in the room to conceal the sounds of her protests and that kavanaugh covered her mouth with his hand and she was able to free herself. i will turn it over to you, it's not surprising this woman would not want to subject herself to what anita hill went through. is it surprising to you that we're only getting this allegation now after the hearings are over? >> i think that there is so much information coming out about kavanaugh after the hearings because the process has been so rushed. he's doing a job interview for a lifetime appointment. people take a job for two years and it is a longer process. it should be slowed down, not least because we're in an interesting and moral moment. the only reason why we know about the term sexual harassment

is because anita hill spoke up about it 20 years ago. the only reason we are hearing about these allegations in a way that is meaningful is because of that moment that's been created by me too. we need to have the opportunity to understand and figure out what kind of moral character and moral implication this has. we all want people on the supreme court who are of high moral character, but we also want to make sure that women have the opportunity to be heard. we also want to make sure that nobody is being held accountable for something that was never a conviction that will take more than a minute. it should not be rushed in a process where next week, we have to make a final judgment on i'm giving this guy a lifetime approvement. >> elliott, i want to go back and unpack. this guy faced other allegations including senators saying they can't vote for him because they think he lied to congress before. dianne feinstein said on thursday that the individual who

came forward wanted confidentiality, declined to come forward or press the matter further. she said she has referred it to investigation, she had it since july. what do you make of this? >> she also said later in that statement, oh, i also thought it was better to focus on the law and not this personal stuff. that's where she is wrong. kavanaugh on the law is republican just like neil gorsuch or whoever else they want to drag up. kavanaugh is the most ethically challenged supreme court nominee we've had since clarence thomas. you don't have to believe these allegations necessarily. i don't know the truth on these allegations, but i know brett kavanaugh is not telling the truth. how can he defend himself, he doesn't know who she is even. he knows who she is. i remember every single girl i passed a note to in chemistry class. he knows who she is. he's not telling the truth about that. he's not telling the truth about his debts, baseball tickets, who

believes that. he's not telling the truth about his gambling. he said he played a dice game for no money. if i roll with my children we're playing for skittles. that's completely untrue that he played a dice game for no money. he lied to congress. this process needs to be stopped. any republican, any republican who cannot see their moral way clear to say let's just get another conservative, they can pass him in the lame duck. it's a -- if kavanaugh succeeds, it's a moral failing of the process. >> and the process has included republic republicans -- only diane feinstein knew about this letter since july. she didn't even tell other democrats. however to the point on whether

mr. kavanaugh knows who this come is, very quickly a letter was produced signed by 65 women, this guy went to an all boys high school, but he knew 65 girls, and they signed a letter saying for the entire time we have known brett kavanaugh he has behaved hon rabably and treated women with respect. how did he get 65 women to sign something that quick? >> they were ready. they knew about this. they had it at the ready. they dropped it just like that. so they knew about this accusation, this accusation of sexual assault before the "new yorker" article clearly. so they were ready for it. they released that letter. here's the thing, joy, we know that brett kavanaugh lied. we know he lied under oath. we know his extreme views on roe

v. wade and affirmative action, now he's being accused of sexual assault. what else do senators need to stop this process? he couldn't be more flawed, more ethically challenged. and they just refuse to stop this. and why do they? well, let's think about it. the midterms are coming up. they have nothing else to sell. they have gorsuch, that's it. they can't run on their awful tax cuts. they're trying to take healthcare away from everybody. and scotus picks move their base. that's one reason there. and who knows what the outcome of the midterms might be for them. this is completely politics. it's not about the country. it's about their party. it's about giving donald trump a win. >> there's one more thing that kavanaugh has that the replacement level conservative doesn't. that's kavanaugh's ridiculous theory that everybody in the executive branch works for the president and not the american

people. that's the one thing that gorsuch doesn't have, this belief that trump can't be charged, subpoenaed or looked at differently. >> the length that republicans are willing to go to give that to donald trump, and immunize him to the supreme court, to put someone on the court that sort of is seating the jury, in a way. none of this is moving republicans at all. this is going forward no matter what is said. republicans have said thursday, we'll have the hearings. we're voting on it. they're also using this to turn it around on dianne feinstein and make a claim, much like what happened in the roy moore case in alabama, the senate case, after feinstein's amounnouncemea

white house note came out talking about this saying it was at the unfortunate part in this, i hope this prompts women to come forward at the time something happens and to be reporting instances of sexual assault and abuse because if we had a police record here, i think that would make this an even stronger case, open and shut. but the challenge with the people who are actually doing the confirming right now is that they are more interested in executing their agenda, extreme conservative agenda of stacking the judiciary of passing -- eliminating health care and passing through tax cuts that help corporates. they are willing to accept morally flawed candidates and a morally flawed president and now a morally flawed supreme court nominee to execute their agenda. >> and we're running out of time. but kareem, what would it mean

to have both brett kavanaugh and clarence thomas on the court? just what does that symbolize for the country given the allegations against them both? >> it sends a horrible message to women when you have two people who have been accused of sexual assault on the highest courts of the land. and it's just really unfortunate and it shouldn't be allowed. it could be stopped. the senators have the power to stop this and they can. there is no reason to move this as fast as they are. they need to stop this process. >> and to clarify, clarence thomas had sexual assault and this is allegation of assault and it is pretty serious. in the know. hour, the walls are closing in on donald trump. we'll talk hurricane politics and that is next.

♪ girls are not in school because of economic issues

and they have to work. at the malala fund, we help girls stay in school. the malala fund invests in education champions who work in the community and pave the way so that girls can actually go to school. to have our financial partner guiding us is very important. the fact that citi is in countries where girls are vulnerable ensures that we're able to get funds to the people that we're working with. when girls go to school, we're going to maximize their talents. we could have a solution for climate change in that girl. that girl could be the next nobel peace prize winner. ♪

my dbut now, i take used tometamucil every day.sh it traps and removes the waste that weighs me down, so i feel lighter. try metamucil, and begin to feel what lighter feels like. - anncr: as you grow older, -your brain naturally begins to change which may cause trouble with recall. - learning from him is great... when i can keep up! - anncr: thankfully, prevagen helps your brain

and improves memory. - dad's got all the answers. - anncr: prevagen is now the number-one-selling brain health supplement in drug stores nationwide. - she outsmarts me every single time. - checkmate! you wanna play again? - anncr: prevagen. healthier brain. better life. coming up in our next hour, all of the president's men are turning on him. and the politics of hurricane response. the latest on brett kavanaugh and why health care may be the democrat's secret weapon in november. there is so much more "am joy" after the break. on earth ♪ uhp. i didn't believe it. again.

♪ ooh, baby, do you know what that's worth? ♪ i want to believe it. [ claps hands ] ♪ ooh i'm not hearing the confidence. okay, hold the name your price tool. power of options based on your budget! and! ♪ we'll make heaven a place on earth ♪ yeah! oh, my angels! ♪ ooh, heaven is a place on earth ♪ [ sobs quietly ] ♪ ooh, heaven is a place on earth ♪ ♪ one look at you and i can't disguise ♪ ♪ i've got hungry eyes applebee's new 3-course meal starting at $11.99. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. shouldn't drive us apart. but when you experience sudden, frequent, uncontrollable

episodes of laughing or crying that are exaggerated or simply don't match how you feel, it can often lead to feeling misunderstood. this is called pseudobulbar affect, or pba. a condition that can occur from brain injury or certain neurologic conditions like stroke or dementia. nuedexta can make a difference by significantly reducing pseudobulbar affect episodes. tell you doctor about medicines you take. some can't be taken with nuedexta. nuedexta is not for people with certain heart conditions. serious side effects may occur. don't take with maois or if you are allergic to dextromethorphan or quinidine. tell your doctor if you have bleeding or bruising. stop if muscle twitching, confusion, fever, or shivering occurs with antidepressants. side effects may include diarrhea, dizziness, cough, vomiting, weakness or ankle swelling. ask your doctor about the only fda approved treatment proven to reduce pba episodes. nuedexta. treatment proven to reduce pba episodes. and butch.aura. and tank. and tiny. and this is laura's mobile dog grooming palace.

laura can clean up a retriever that rolled in foxtails, but she's not much on "articles of organization." articles of what? so, she turned to legalzoom. they helped me out. she means we helped with her llc, trademark, and a lot of other legal stuff that's a part of running a business. so laura can get back to the dogs. would you sit still? this is laura's mobile dog grooming palace and this is where life meets legal.

i began by telling the president that there was a cancer growing on the presidency and if the cancer was not removed, the president himself would be killed by it. i also told him it was important the cancer be removed immediately because it was growing more deadly every day. >> welcome back to "am joy." well if you ask historians, if it wasn't for john dean's testimony before the senate watergate committee in 1973, nixon might have never resigned. that is what makes paul manafort

plea deal with robert mueller so significant and because it seems those closest to trump are turning on him. his campaign manager joins four other with connections to the trump campaign that have pled guilty and manafort is the latest to cooperate or be willing to cooperate to the russia investigation. seven people have admitted to or convicted of 24 criminal counts linked to the mueller probe or to the campaign. another 26 people and three businesses all in russia or ukraine have been indicted by the mueller grand jury. all of it shows the overwhelming force of the mueller probe just over a year into the investigation. joining me now, former deputy assistant attorney pierre williams, jonathan capehart from "america on the line" on opinion writer jennifer rubin. thank you for being here.

jennifer, i'll start with you. vanity fair has a piece out by gabriel sherman reporting that trump believes there is a coup taking place against him and triggered by the new york times op-ed and sees enemies everywhere and here is an interesting line. besides family, according to the piece, one of the only people trump continues to trust is steven miller. the op-ed is validated miller's view, which is also steve bannon's view there is an administrative state out to get trump. a republican close to the white house said there is a coup and not a slow rolling or concealed coup told the writer which is gabriel sherman. it is interesting they see an administrative state coup when the people turning on him are his people. his lawyer. his campaign manager. his people. not the administrative state. >> right. i think there are two things going on simultaneously. one is, as you say, joy, everybody is turning on him. aside from his children, there is no one left in the inner circle. imagine for example if hillary clinton had had her national

security adviser, her campaign chief and her deputy campaign chief and personal lawyer all indicted at that point there could be an assumption and absolute conclusion that she had been up to no good and the very least he's hired a bunch of crooks. so there is that going on. and he considers -- remember his sense of loyalty. it is like the mob. you never turn or snitch. sa simultaneously "the new york times" op-ed had a bunch of people putting their fingers in dikes try fog keep the wave from washing the country out to sea. so in some sense, they are all out to get him and even paranoid have enemies and he brought this on himself. >> and jonathan capehart, people who have been around him saying cornered he's more erratic and out of control. so i wonder what this ends up looking like as not just this op-ed freaks him out and the fact that people who he doesn't know are in his -- in their own

minds working to undermine him and stop him from doing the things they don't like, other than cutting taxes. but that you no you have -- now you have his consigliere and former campaign chairman and people that know about his crimes with the election turning on him. >> people who know maybe not just about crimes but could give a very clear insight into his thinking, his motivations, just who he is. and i think between paul manafort and also his personal financial guy, allen weisselberg, plus david pecker, these are people who are involved with president trump but more importantly citizen donald trump and all of the catch and kill stories and other sort of nefarious things that donald trump did as a private citizen that are all manifesting themselves now that he is in the oval office. the idea that a president who

acts more like -- the head of a crime family who puts family first and is now relying on the counsel of a white nationalist on his staff is something that just in general should really concern people. but the fact that all of the people who were close to him have now decided to cooperate with the special counsel only serves to make a paranoid narcissistic president more ins lar. and we've seen how dangerous that could be. just ask the american citizens who live in puerto rico about what it is like to have a president who has no moral core, no sense of empathy and now here he is feeling vulnerable, isolated and relying on the -- on his family and the one person he thinks isn't out to get him. and john pierre, we have

12,000 children in federal custody, migrant children and the idea is a paranoid donald trump who is only listening to the guy who is gearing him on to cage children feels like an even more dangerous situation for vulnerable people. if he's going to lash out, that is who he's lashing out at. >> yeah, and steven mill ser dangerous. he come out of the camp of jeff sessions and incredibly dangerous and every policy out of steven miller and coming out of the attorney general's office has hurt the most vulnerable am a -- among us and right now we're talking about the families who are crossing the border, immigrants who have to pay the consequences for such an evil man in the white house at 1600 pennsylvania avenue sitting behind the resolute desk who decides that they are not worthy and if you are not like him and not wealthy, white, straight, then you do not belong here and

we don't want you here. he wants people from norway. so this is what we have in this president right now and we've had that for the last clearly almost 20 months and this is once again, do i have to say this -- this is why we have to come out in november and put a stop on this runaway administration. >> it is quite a thing. let me bring in my prosecutorelon williams. and now you have paul manafort pleading out and donald trump's only response to that per the "wall street journal" was i got hit with an artificial witch hunt that should have never happened was his response to that. but at the same time, it felt for a while like the way this was going was that paul manafort was holding out and not cooperating in the hopes of a pardon. the politico said the pardon impact could be lessened by fact that paul manafort has turned state's evidence and said two new factors appear to styme the potential trump pardon for paul manafort and the first is that he's already talking and that

paul manafort managed to get -- that mueller managed to get concessions from paul manafort that limit the value of any pardon. what kind of concessions could that be? because he has to keep cooperating as long as mueller wants him? >> right. the extent of the cooperation actually has to be valuable. now back to this pardon point, what is fascinating is the president is basing his decisions on who to pardon and this is long before any of this, who to pardon based on loyalty to him and this concept of family loyalty or o mere todd might work great in godfather and criminal movies but it doesn't work in criminal justice that day. defendants and targets and subjects of investigation have a huge incentive to cooperate to lessen their sentence and this talk about how paul manafort -- he wasn't going -- he's a strong man is what donald trump had said. yeah, he's a strong man also cooperating with the government because he has a huge incentive to do so and you'll continue to see this if the mueller probe

reaches more people in the white house and we know who in the white house is a potential subject of this. >> and part of what manafort's lawyer said was he did it to protect his family and almost implying their safety. >> it could be safety. and there is certainly ways to protect witnesses and their families. a big part of that was the financial matters had to do to protect his family. so for instance he turned -- he relinquished some real estate, but also able to keep some bank accounts. and i think ultimately that was in order to protect his family. now had he been convicted a lot of that may have been taken away and he would have lost a lot of control over the assets, questions, personal liberty questions -- they won't enter the witness protection program but potentially it is not his call as much. and so again this gets back to the incentive point. he had a huge reason to do this and you'll continue to see this as more people continue to be

targeted and subjects of the investigation. >> and jennifer, that is where my mind went because we see so much danger for people who turn against russia and danny cevallos said the evidence he might turn over in hopes of a getting a pardon might be more damaging to russian than donald trump. that is not a prospect without danger given who is running the kremlin. >> absolutely. you could ask mr. skripal and his daughter. i think part of what was going on here was a concern for safety. in fact, he used the word "safe" in the one-line statement put out by his attorney and i'm sure they are concerned. and although we in the united states were looking forward to hearing about how the kremlin-backed ukrainian president and party prorussia manipulate this guy, the russians didn't want to hear that and i think his incentive was not to testify in open court for the reason you are pointing

out. and i also want to say the pardon is of much lesser value because there are a whole lot of state crimes and when he -- when you listen to that lawyer for 40 minutes and then said i'm guilty, some of the crimes are state offenses as well. and so if he does chicken out and clam up, he has state liability as well. >> virtually all of the banking ones could be brought in a state court. the lobbying not as much but the banking stuff. >> and it would be right in his home state of new york where there are unfriendlies at every level, including the likely next attorney general. i want to play for you the defense donald trump is down to and his remaining defenders and rudy giuliani his tv lawyer touted this out on hannity on friday. >> the plea agreement has -- and cooperation agreement has nothing to do with the trump campaign. reality is no evidence of collusion. look at the plea. it is to crimes that have to do with manafort's past and no involvement with president

trump, no involvement with the campaign, no involvement with russia. >> aside from the fact that one of the apartments that he relinquished is in trump tower -- and the fact that his client was the ukrainian government that he helped to get ram rod in and the pro-russian kremlin government and the flip of that rnc plank on ukraine, the idea this has nothing to do with the campaign sounds patently absurd to me. does it to you? >> yes. look, you describe rudy giuliani correctly. he is president trump's tv lawyer. he is the mouth piece. literally the mouth piece of donald trump. these are all words that you could imagine him barking into the -- barking into rudy giuliani's phone saying to say this on television and go on hannity and say this on television. right down to all of the word -- the words that come out of rudy giuliani's mouth. so yes, it is patently absurd.

and the other thing about rudy giuliani's statements on television, if you take them in their totality, they're all sort of short-term -- sort of short-term analysis. so what you just showed there, well, yeah, right now, today there might not be literally the words collusion in any of the documents. but it also belied the fact that mueller isn't playing uno, he's not playing checkers. this guy is playing four dimensional chess. you might not see it now but the guy is 20, 30, million step as head of the president and his tv lawyer. so whenever rudy giuliani goes on television, i listen very carefully because it is like the perfect barometer, the perfect temperature of where the president is and in his mental mania over what is happening to him. >> the rest of my panel will stay with me before we let

elliott williams go, could you guess who the next target might be and who is in the most danger? >> look, we know now we are now in the room in trump tower in 2016. that meeting where they talked about hillary clinton and we know that jared kushner was there and to say he's the next person, i don't know. there is a lot of people in the white house and so on. but it is hard to believe that potentially mueller could not get to more individuals in that room because like you said, those are the folks who have the secrets, i would like to say it is not where the bodies are buried but where the secrets about potential interaction with the foreign government and potential collusion -- that is buried. >> it is the room where it happened. they all want to get in there. don't want to be in the room because that is the room with the next targets. >> who is aaron burr in this. >> he was a great singer in hamilton. elliott williams, thank you very much. and next up, trump's latest despicable comments about puerto rico.

at ally, we created a savings account with a great rate. but if that's not enough, our app helps monitor your spending too. and if that's not enough to help you save, we could start a carpool. look at this traffic. don't worry. ok, if that's not enough we'll start a trainpool. oh i have a meeting in five minutes. and if that's still not enough... i got it. we'll just create a shortcut. we'll do anything, seriously anything to help you save. ally. do it right. talking 4th quarter? yes. the world is full of different hair. that's why pantene has the perfect conditioners for everyone. from air-light foam, to nourishing 3 minute miracle, to the moisture-infusing gold series. we give more women great hair days - every day. pantene. then you might have a dcondition called dry mouth.? biotène is clinically proven to soothe and moisturize a dry mouth. plus, it freshens breath.

biotène. immediate and long lasting dry mouth symptom relief. you know i miss playing catch with the... grandkids and teaching them how to give a good handshake. now look at me... i'm all bent out of shape. (vo tv) if you have bent fingers and can't put your hand flat, talk to your doctor. it may be dupuytren's contracture. (gary) see ya! (hand) you're all about friendly service, and you won't even shake hands? come on! (vo) your hand is talking. isn't it time you listened? learn more about dupuytren's contracture... at factsonhand.com. the information could be quite handy. but allstate helps you. with drivewise. feedback that helps you drive safer. and that can lower your cost now that you know the truth... are you in good hands?

i think puerto rico was incredibly successful. i think that puerto rico was an incredible unsung success. i think in a certain way the best job we did was puerto rico but nobody would understand that.

>> hurricane florence is still wreaking havoc as a tropical storm yet donald trump can't stop relitigating his administration's inadequate response to hurricane maria in puerto rico last year. on thursday he did something that was shocking even for him. actually denying that 3000 people died and falsely blaming democrats for inflating the death toll to make him -- to look bad and after being corrected, he doubled down last night rage tweeting that the puerto rico death toll rose like magic and there is no way it was accurate. kareem, jonathan and jennifer are back with me and republican strategist kate dawson. what do you make of the president of the united states stunningly pretending that 3000 people didn't really die as a result of hurricane maria? >> well, that is a tough question. especially from storm-infested

south carolina in the middle of a hurricane and the federal government and state government is doing a wonderful job and the resilient 5.3 million people and the cajun navy are weathering a strong storm here. so to address the president's comments, i will let them stand as they may. i don't know the figures. i do know the population of puerto rico is a little over 3 million people and they are still in distress. i have friends that have gone to work in puerto rico. and certainly wish them the best as a territory of the united states of america and with people there who work hard and are trying their best. i don't know what the figure is of the death toll. if it is more than one, it's sad and tragic. >> but we do know the figures. we still do have some processes in government and despite donald trump still functioning and -- and an official governmental figure were put out even paul ryan who has made the shrug, he's like a shrug emoji in human

form because nothing donald trump does will elicit a response from him, even he couldn't defend donald trump on this. here is paul ryan on thursday. >> the casualties don't make a person look bad. that is not -- so i have no reason to dispute these numbers. i was in puerto rico after the hurricane. it was devastated. this was a horrible storm. i have to reason to dispute those numbers. those are just the facts of what happens when a horrible hurricane hits an isolated place like an island. >> even rick scott who back when he was in the hospital executive pretended he couldn't remember any of the record medicare fraud that was happening in his -- when he took a deposition and even he on thursday said he disagrees with trump and independent study said thousands were lost and the governor rosio agreed and i've been to puerto rico and to throw that in to help him out in the election. so kate, it is not disputable that 3000 people died, right? >> i would say when paul ryan said the same thing, it is not disputable.

the sad disappointing thing is the president is bringing it up again and in the middle of a more developous job the federal government is doing in two states so i guess we move on past the comments and talk about the current storm if we can. >> i don't think we can move on past that. >> no. >> let me let kareem first and then jennifer. jump in. >> i'm going to say this and i've said this before, joy, because it fits with every segment i do with you, is never has such a small man taken such a big job. and donald trump is just so -- has no moral compass here. how could you deny 3000 souls -- 3000 americans who died because of the incompetence of the trump administration. that is the reality that we're in. and we should -- we should not have a president who is saying -- it did happen when we all know it happened but the thing about it, joy, is okay so

paul ryan is saying that he believes it happened and he went down to puerto rico and where -- where are the over sight hearings? do your jobs. why aren't we not talking about this every day and not bringing the administration to committee hearing and asking what happened and just going down the checklist. because this is -- we're talking about 3000 lives. and they're just not doing their jobs. they are not holding him accountable. and yes, they are sticking up and saying, oh, they don't believe what he said. but they need to do their jobs. 3000 people died. >> jennifer rubin. >> listen, the reason we have a donald trump problem is because otherwise good and decent people like kate dawson won't call him out and condemn him. donald trump has killed those people twice. once through neglect and second disgracing they died at all and that is what death denial and holocaust denial syndromes are

about, killing the person twice. listen, even paul ryan, even paul ryan would admit this, but what we have here is a perfect example of the different ways in which the republicans couch and add caveats and protect donald trump. paul ryan, the first thing he said is no one is responsible and it is no one's fault but we don't know that and we would like to have some oversight hearings as carrin said and the reason they are doing such a bang up job in north carolina and south carolina because they are trump voters and if they are not voters and white -- he doesn't give a darn. and that is what this is also about. these people are not recognizable as americans, as human beings in his eyes and i think, kate, it would be a good thing for you and the republican party to condemn that explicitly. >> cattin? >> let me explain. to accuse president trump of killing 3000 people is irresponsible. and -- >> can you answer the

question -- >> and so the at end of the day -- >> that is not -- >> that isn't helping to the situation. >> hold on. let's have one person stop. because the point being made here is no one is saying that he personally killed these people. but the point is -- i think it is indisputable that the response to hurricane maria was very inadequate and had it been better a lot of lives might have been saved and administration takes the blame and president bush had to take the l for hurricane katrina and say those people didn't really die as a result of hurricane katrina and in this case donald trump is doing what alex jones did with sandy hook and saying it didn't happenal all and his administration was in charge and failed people. he threw towels at them. isn't he responsible for the poor response to maria? >> well a president is responsible for the fema response and the national response and the government -- >> which wasn't good. >> and in they're states so at the end of the day there is a

responsibility. politicians have the ability to take credit for good things and not -- but the president is being accountable -- >> i still didn't hear you condemning the president for denying the death of 3000 americans and that ys in my view the republican party is unrescuable. you have too many people too invested in defernding this guy and not calling him out and to account and you can't have a party in charge -- you can't have a party in power that does that. it is irresponsible and it is morally and politically irresponsible. >> i have to get jonathan in but i want to give him a chance to respond afterwards. jonathan, let me let you in. >> joy -- about a year ago i think -- i can't remember with time and the era of president trump, but i wrote a piece and that said the one thing the president trump lacks that his 44 predecessors had in abundance is a sense of shame.

president trump has shown time and time again that he lacks a sense of shame. shame is the one human guard rail that we have that keeps us from doing things we shouldn't do or owning up and taking responsibility for things that we have done that have hurt people, that have denied people a sense of dignity and humanity. president bush rightly was criticized for his initial response to hurricane katrina. but he went down there and he took responsibility for it and he tried very hard and kor-- an congress and the white house tried to make things right. president reagan apologized to the country for what happened with iran contra. this president with a total lack of a sense of shame is somebody who goes on twitter as another hurricane is bearing down on the country, to deny the fact that

2975 people in hawaii -- americans died. what we look for -- >> in puerto rico. >> in puerto rico. what we have -- what we look for in a president is someone who represents us. who is able to channel our pain and frustration when we are feeling hurt and vulnerable. 2975 americans on the island of hawaii -- loftd the-- lost thei lives and many loved ones are still grieving over the loss and still dealing with the fact that their island, their home is still devastated and they have been abandoned by their country. this president has shown no sense of shame in what happened to them or also -- or even in taking responsibility and acknowledging the fact that as president of the united states, yeah, it is not technically your fault, but you are the leader. the government needs to take responsibility and be held accountable for what happened.

>> and katin -- not to pick on you and jonathan said shame is lacking but there is a certain empathy that donald trump doesn't ever seem to be able to exhibit and one of the things we do expect from a president, in a moment of crisis and in my family and my mother and sister and brother were not for reagan but when the challenger happened, reagan was able to speak to the country whether you were for or against him with a sense of moral authority. donald trump, you are down there in south carolina, seven people have lost their lives. i can't imagine donald trump being able to speak to that loss in a way that would move anyone except the third of the country, the third of adults who already are devoted fans of his. outside of the 30%, where is his moral authority and isn't he eroding it more and more every single day when he does things like deny the death toll in puerto rico? >> well, donald trump is a cold sort of president. he's not warm and fuzzy.

his twitter thing does bother a lot of us in the quick statements that are made. but at the end of the day, he won an election and he has some policies and we on the republican side like the supreme court -- >> is it worth it? is it worth it? is the supreme court -- i know the right wants to control the courts. i get that. but is that worth it? if the president can't speak to -- if god forbid it gets worse in the region where you live, who will speak to the country? paul ryan as well. his -- he literally is a shrug emoji and he decides he doesn't want to lead or be a leader, he wants to serve tea to donald trump. there isn't anyone in your party -- your party runs the whole country and there isn't anyone on that side that could speak the country's heart. and does that bother you as a republican? >> well, i come out of the reagan-bush wing where i felt both of those leaders were very compassionate leaders, especially 43, george w. bush. and he was -- he led and was a

responsible figure in the 9/11 tragedy when he addressed those. and do i wish the president was more empathetic? yeah. but i can't change his personality or the -- >> you could withdraw your support. the base of the republican party could withdraw support from such a man. as many have. jennifer rubin is right there, she's not physically next to you but next to you on the tv. she has. many republicans have said this isn't worth it. >> i'm not one of those republicans. i'm telling you, i understand campaign elections and understand how the president got elected over 15 qualified politicians and i understand where we are in america right now and the midterms are going to give us a little signal about what will happen and there will be surps b-- surprises but not s many as the panelists thing. the country is changing as we speak. natural disasters are unifyi --

funfying matters by our country much like when we attacked by terrorists. so i wish the president would be more unifying in his tone but at the end of the day the resources are being delivered where they can and the responsibility to the states are being addressed. this is not the last storm we're going to face in south carolina and north carolina or any of the coastal states. and they are tragedies. so at the end of the day, i pray and hope that people will understand what is going on in our country and we'll see how it works out. but if you are looking for the government to always do everything for you, then there is always going to be a lot of dissatisfaction. >> there is a few things we expect the government to do and in natural disasters that their job. and jennifer rubin i have to let you in, as a republican, your response. >> this is why we have donald trump because people like catton don't have a sense of moral responsibility. people in life have a moral

responsibility to speak out when their elected leaders and own members of the party do things that are morally repugnant. they can't simply go along for the road. it is not an answer to this, catton, so say well he was elected but now he's doing very, very bad things and you and other republicans should be z zee -- denouncing it and we'll have another election in 2020 and you'll be out there supporting him against challenges. my goodness. the reason the republican party is headed for the ash heap of history is because you don't have any sense of moral shame or core and it starts with you, catton. >> i have to let catton respond. >> that is jennifer's opinion. and if she -- i know we're okay. at the end of the day, if you are talking about calling a president out and moral authority and his personal habits, is that our job? no. >> but he used -- wait, wait, i'm old enough to remember the republican party being the

arbiterers of the morality of others on a consistent basis. remember the moral majority, republicans were saying they are the arbiters of moralality. we're ought -- out of time. we need more time. thank you very much. we wish you best to you and your family in south carolina and please make sure to check oun jonathan's new radio show. could you talk to him on the phone. american on the line on wnyc monday through thursday at 8:00 p.m. thursday. voters in maine are screaming susan collins extremely uncomfortable. more on that next. etic nerve pa, these feet... ...raised a good sport... ...and became a second-generation firefighter. but i couldn't bear my diabetic nerve pain any longer. so i talked to my doctor, and he prescribed lyrica. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions, suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worse depression, unusual changes in mood or behavior, swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling, or blurry vision.

common side effects: dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain and swelling of hands, legs, and feet. don't drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don't drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who have had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. now i have less diabetic nerve pain. ask your doctor about lyrica. your hair is so soft! now i have less diabetic nerve pain. did you use head and shoulders two in one? i did mom. wanna try it? yes. it intensely moisturizes your hair and scalp and keeps you flake free. manolo? look at my soft hair. i should be in the shot now too. try head and shoulders two in one.

discover.o. i like your card, but i'm absolutely not paying an annual fee. discover has no annual fees. really? yeah. we just don't believe in them. oh nice. you would not believe how long i've been rehearsing that. no annual fee on any card. only from discover. you wouldn't accept an incomplete job monday through thursday at 8:00 om any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase sensimist relieves all your worst symptoms, including nasal congestion, which most pills don't. and all from a gentle mist you can barely feel. flonase sensimist.

senator collins, if you vote for brett kavanaugh we'll fund your future opponent. >> a vote for brett kavanaugh is almost certainly a vote to reverse roe v. wade. >> as a mainer with a presifting condition, if you vote yes on kavanaugh then you vote to kill me. >> if you vote for brett kavanaugh, we're not going to stop fighting until you're defeated. >> be a hero and vote no and if you don't, we'll replace you. >> as sexual assault comments, a campaign urging susan colins to vote against his confirmation has raised, get this, $1.3 million. the campaign said the money will go to her future opponent in 2020 if collins voted to confirm

kavanaugh. collins blasted the campaign as an effort to, quote, bribe her. collins and alaska senator lisa murkowski are the two key votes to determine whether or not kavanaugh gets a lifetime seat on the court. joining me now is joy legum from popular.info and aneesha hill sane and legal analyst paul butler. thank you for being here. you wrote a piece on monday that said the following, you wrote kavanaugh made a big mistake. under friendly questioning from ted cruz he believes that ro e was incorrectly decided and should be overturned and that would make it impossible for them not to vote for brett kavanaugh and colins is saying she's undecided but it seeming decided. what do you make of it. >> well, i think until she said she's going to vote one way or other, i really applaud the people in maine and elsewhere who are continuing to do what

they can to make their voices heard. taking a step back, there is so much that goes on every day, but if brett kavanaugh is confirmed, no matter what happens to donald trump, whether he's impeached, whether he resigns, whether he loses re-election, it is all worth it to republicans. this nomination has the ability to reshape the law, to reshape america. for decades. collins and murkowski are trying to claim plausible deniability that kavanaugh will work to overturn roe v. wade and i think if you look closely at his testimony, which is what i did, it is really unambiguous and clear as these things get. and collins and murkowski should be held accountable. >> so collins is trying to say he said the magic word, stare decisis and he believes in the precedent. but the campaign -- i wonder

what you make of it just as a tactic, this idea there are wire hangers sent to her office and sent over 3000 coat hangers symbolizing back alley abortions that took place before they became legal. the hard-pressed issue you heard in that campaign commercial by the people raising money potentially to use against her, you are voting to kill me. i have a pre-existing condition. if you vote for him. what do you make for these as tactics? >> it is interesting because the crowd funding campaign also sounds more like a threat than it does sound like a bribe. but it also lays out if republican women -- i think it is interesting because let's not forget it was majority white college educated women that put donald trump in power. republican women going to choose gender over party or race over party? so i find that interesting. but also this is really going to test us to see how far we have come since anita hill. is -- do we believe women or not. is me-too going to change how we

consider a scotus nominee or not. so those are the things that i think at the end of the day we need to focus. >> well i want to try to just get -- go in more in, paul butler, on suzan-- susan collin saying if you don't vote no we'll use the money to defeat you in an election and news max, conservative paper, this is what she said, i consider this quid quo profundraising an attempt to bribe me to vote against brett kavanaugh. if i vote against him the opinion is given to the opponent during my 2020 race and it demonstrates a new low to which the judge's opponents have stooped. you're a former prosecutor. is raising money against a politician a bribe? >> of course not. so federal bribery law makes it a crime to offer something of value to a government official in exchange for an act.

and here there is no quid pro quo. susan collins isn't getting anything but it is her campaign. and i get the concern about the role of money in politics. that is ironic here. they are able to do crowd sourcing because of a supreme court case called citizens united which expanded the role of money in politics. it was a 5-4 decision from everything we know about his juris prudence, if confirmed, justice kavanaugh would further expand the role of money in politics and so that might be a reason why senator collins might want to think about or vote for the supreme court justice. >> and judd, you have the issues in place, whether or not cavanaugh would protect donald trump or the president from any kind of investigation which is on the table, you've got these issues about campaign finance, seems on the side of big money corporations and issues about

whether or not he would protect health care but to your point, on roe is seems not that ambiguous and he said starry deseiss is but it is laughable to assert he doesn't have an opinion on what should happen to roe v. wade so i'm wondering if as a tactic, zeroing in on that and on women and two women republican senators, if you believe that that is a smart tactical move, if collins doesn't seem moved by it right now. >> well, i think that is the only way to go. there is really only two republicans whose vote seems at all in doubt. maybe jeff flake but i think we've watched that movie too many times. >> yes. >> he also hasn't declared but it is clear where he'll go in the end. and it really does put them in a difficult position. because they voted for gorsuch but gorsuch was replacing scalia and so therefore the dynamics of roe v. wade and abortion rights wouldn't change. no matter who you put in to that

slot. this is much different because you have justice kennedy who was the swing vote. so i do think it makes sense. and also what is important is that both murkowski and collins have said they do not intend to vote for a nominee that is hostile to roe and i think that is precisely the kind of nominee that brett kavanaugh has showed himself to be. both prior to his testimony, but then also very importantly in his testimony said all of the words that conservatives should be seeking to overturn roe would want to hear. it doesn't get any clearer than brett kavanaugh makes it -- and obviously he didn't say explicitly this is what i'm going to do, he wants to create this ambiguity because he knows he needs collins and murkowski vote but he did lay out exactly how he would do it. >> and they've said -- that made that pledge if they mean it. >> and i don't understand why

we're so desperate to give this man the benefit of the doubt. even if there is a small grain of benefit of the doubt that we could give him as judd was saying, i agree, he has been very clear on where he stands on roe. i don't think that his stance is up for debate and i think it is crazy that collins is trying to just hold on to this little shred that would give him any benefit of the doubt. i don't think there is -- i don't think he deserves the benefit of the doubt and i think he's very clear on where he stands on roe. >> and even if he's telling the truth in a very formal legalistic way, you could definitely reduce a woman's access to health care without formally overruling roe v. wade. it is very hard for a woman to get an abortion in texas now. again roe v. wade hasn't been overturned. but the court has so greatly expanded the role of officials of the government and women's reproductive rights that it doesn't have to overturn roechd in order to accomplish that mission. >> and anewborna, i want to turn

total gagss against brett kavanaugh and i wonder -- whether you could prognosticate whether that is having an impact on murkowski and weighing the issues of whether brett kavanaugh believes alaskans are indigenous people and is weighing on her vote but the issue of the allegations of a high school sexual assault which of course i should remind people, he issued a statement saying he denies and saying he didn't do it and at any time but what do you think that those allegations might do to this process, particularly as regard to the two women republican senators? >> well, i think that is what -- that is exactly the point i was stipulating earlier. this will demonstrate if me-too is going to change how we consider a scotus nominee and it is interesting that the question isn't if brett kavanaugh is a nice guy. i feel like the allegations are bringing up the -- the 61 women who were like he was very nice to me.

this isn't a question about him being a nice guy. it is a question of the fact of if he held a woman down or not. we have to stay focused on that. >> thank you. we are out of time. at the top of the hour, the very latest on the tropical storm florence and the impact of the storm and where it is going next and up next, the democrat secret weapon this november. packaging for restaurants. and we've grown substantially. so i switched to the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy. and last year, i earned $36,000 in cash back. that's right, $36,000. which i used to offer health insurance to my employees. my unlimited 2% cash back is more than just a perk, it's our healthcare. can i say it? what's in your wallet?

( ♪ ) face the world as a face to be reckoned with. only botox® cosmetic is fda approved to temporarily make moderate to severe frown lines,

crow's feet and forehead lines look better. it's a quick 10 minute cosmetic treatment given by a doctor to reduce those lines. there is only one botox® cosmetic, ask for it by name. the effects of botox® cosmetic, may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be a sign of a life-threatening condition. do not receive botox® cosmetic if you have a skin infection. side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyelid and eyebrow drooping and eyelid swelling. tell your doctor about your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications including botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. leave your mark on the world. minimize its mark on you. get started at botoxcosmetic.com.

i'll still take on anyone that messes with west virginia. >> now the threat is patrick morsi's lawsuit, to take away health care from people with pre-existing conditions. he is just dead wrong and that isn't going to happen. josh hawley filed a lawsuit letting companies deny those with pre-existing conditions. that is just wrong. >> something inside me broke. i'm running for congress and i approve this message, because it's a firable offense. >> now that primary season is over, it's time to talk about the midterms. many of the democrats running for key seats are making their races about one issue, it's not

donald trump or one of the many, many, many, many, many scandals in d.c. no, it's all about health care. democrats have a 5 in 6 chance of winning the house. and a 1 in 3 chance of winning the senate. don't go by the poll's votes. let's talk about these races, you have these candidates who are using health care as their main issue. is that why democrats are moving to these wider spreads in terms of more likely to take back the house and senate, or is it really trump? >> i think it's a combination of both. i think that trump's particular personal disapproval is high. and that helps, but also, we saw in the polling last year, one thing that made trump's numbers go down a lot, was when he talked about this obamacare repeal. you know, joy, we talk about this a lot in 2010 and 2014,

democrats did not want to talk about health care at all. they wanted to avoid it at all times. this year they're talking about it a lot. they're not using the word obamacare, but pre-existing conditions is a key plank of obamacare. i think what you saw is that the moment trump started talking about repeopling obamacare, the law got more popular. today a kaiser pot out, 50% of people have a favorable view of the health care law. it's a big shift, and that was a big shift from 2016 when the law was not -- it was more popular than unpopular. >> once people actually have the insurance, it's different, right? it's different in theory, the idea of change, once you got the insurance, the thought that someone is going to take it from you is unpopular. i want to go to a tell -- >> we keep the house majority, which i think we will, and then have you to make sure we have a big enough majority in the

senate to be able to pass. health care reform. >> if we can go back to the situation where we have a risk pool. so people could get affordable coverage, then the rest of the individual market more insurers will come into the marketplace and we'll have more competition and more prices that can help bring it down. >> 40 million people were uninsured under this system. if we keep the house, we're going to take your insurance. >> this is why you don't keep a lame duck as a speaker. the party does not want him saying this outloud. you look at the republican ads, they're talking about the national anthem, culture issues. they're not talking about repealing obamacare add all, in their ads, they know it's a terrible political message. paul ryan is thinking more about his future than maintaining the majority for the republicans. i'm sure people tell him, do not say that any more, it's not the party message, even though that probably is true.

i do think if republicans have the control of the house, they'll push for this repeal again. they'll have the numbers, the senate may be more republican than it is right now, next year, i think they will do that, it was a major gaffe to say it out loud. >> immigration is number one. it doesn't mean a lot of people want a wall. look at the economy at the bottom, that isn't helping trump add all that the obama economy is still working. >> the republicans have talked a lot about how the economy's going to save them. look at what they're doing, if you watch their ads in race after race, very few of the ads mention the tax cuts. some mention the economy. they talk about immigration, the wall, culture issues that they think are going to help them this fall. >> none of it is helping right now. >> thank you. good to see you, man. that is our show. for today. am joy will be back tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern. before i go, i have to say a happy happy birthday to my

cousin nigel carroll. he's having his big birthday in atlanta. i wish i was there, nigel. all my cousins are there, i didn't make it. i have to work, i work on weekends. i hope it's the best best best one ever. have two or three cocktails for me. alex witt is coming up next. i'm going to be your substitute teacher. don't assume the substitute teacher has nothing to offer... same goes for a neighborhood. don't forget that friendships last longer than any broadway run. mr. president. (laughing) don't settle for your first draft. or your 10th draft. ♪ ♪ you get to create the room where it happens. ♪ ♪ just don't think you have to do it alone. ♪ ♪ the powerful backing of american express. don't live life without it.

my dbut now, i take used tometamucil every day.sh it traps and removes the waste that weighs me down, so i feel lighter. try metamucil, and begin to feel what lighter feels like. then you might have a dcondition called dry mouth.? biotène is clinically proven to soothe and moisturize a dry mouth. plus, it freshens breath.

biotène. immediate and long lasting dry mouth symptom relief. like concert tickets or a new snowboard. matt: whoo! whoo! jen: but that all changed when we bought a house. matt: voilà! jen: matt started turning into his dad. matt: mm. that's some good mulch. ♪ i'm awake. but it was pretty nifty when jen showed me how easy it was to protect our home and auto with progressive. [ wrapper crinkling ] get this butterscotch out of here. progressive can't protect you from becoming your parents. there's quite a bit of work, 'cause this was all -- this was all stapled. but we can protect your home and auto when you bundle with us.

hey there will, very good day to you, i'm alex witt here at msnbc in new york. dramatic and dangerous tropical storm florence carrying drenching rain, leaving residents in ports of the carolinas stranded and in need of rescue. the story with these pictures in a few minutes. residents are confronted with another growing problem that may not be solved for days or weeks. the trump campaign's former manager cuts a deal. he must tell all to robert mueller including what happened at that trump tower meeting. we have those details next on msnbc live. new and heavy rains drenching parts of north carolina. storm surge warnings and flash flood warnings remain in effect.