good to be with you. i'm frances rivera in for ayman mohyeldin. we begin with breaking news. just days before the first vote was expected to take place for his supreme court nomination, judge brett kavanaugh's once anonymous accuser is telling her story. "the washington post" publishing a detailed interview with christine blazy ford who alleged kavanaugh attacked her in high school. the post reports speaking publicly for the first time, ford said one summer in the early 1980s, kavanaugh and a friend both stumbling drunk, ford alleges, corralled her into a bedroom. she said kavanaugh pinned her to a bed on her back and groped her over her clothes, grinding his

body against hers and clumsily attempted to pull off her one-piece bathing suit and the clothing she wore over it. when she tried to scream, she said he put his hand over her mouth. i thought he might inadvertently kill me, said ford. now a 51-year-old research psychologist in northern california, as he was trying to attack me and remove my clothing. kavanaugh released a statement saying, quote, i cat agoricly deny this allegation. when asked for comment, the white house referred nbc back to that statement. "the washington post" says kavanaugh declined to comment further on the allegations today. nbc news has also reached out to kavanaugh and they have not independently confirmed the accuser's identity. let's bring in our panel, kristen welker, also vox political reporter andrew procop, and also johns hopkins professor and contributor to the hill, wendy aseffo, and danny cevallos. kristen, let's start with you. as we're all watching the

president's twitter feed, nothing yet. anything from the white house about this? >> i just spoke with a white house official. we can push this story forward a little bit. according to this white house official, when i asked if judge kavanaugh would withdraw his nomination, this white house official was firm, no. that was the response. this official pointing us back to that original denial by judge kavanaugh. as you just pointed out, judge kavanaugh initially saying i did not do this, unequivocally denied the allegation. now, i also spoke to this white house official about the mood here within the white house. are they wavering, are they concerned? the response i got to that question, this white house is standing by judge kavanaugh. they point to the fact that he sat for more than 30 hours of testimony. this issue was never raised. he also sat for hearings behind closed doors. this issue was never raised. nearly 1300 questions were submitted to judge kavanaugh.

he submitted the answers to those questions wednesday night, according to this official. this issue was never raised. so the white house standing firmly behind judge kavanaugh. of course, this comes as some democrats are calling for the vote that is scheduled for this coming thursday to be delayed. so that there can be more time for them to consider this allegation. mitch mcconnell through his spokesperson saying about that, if the leader makes any new scheduling announcements, we'll be sure to let you know. so that is where things stand right now. what are republicans saying? senator chuck grassley saying it's disturbing these unkwauberated allegations from more than 35 years ago during high school would surface on the eve of a committee vote after democrats sat on them since july. kamala harris, a democrat, saying the senate has a constitutional responsibility to scrutinize scotus nominees. a vote on kavanaugh's nomination must be delayed until there's a thorough investigation. to that question about why now, why is this coming out now, well, we know that christine

blasey ford saying initially she had no plans to share her story publicly. she did submit a letter to her local lawmaker. that letter then submitted, of course, to senator dianne feinstein, who's had that letter since july. why did this come out now? in part because reporters started asking questions about all of this. and blasey tells "the washington post" effectively as the story snowballed, she heard people repeating inaccuracies about her, and with visits for reporters felt her privacy being chipped away. very dramatic backdrop as we enter the coming week. >> especially the new reporting. thanks to you, kristen, from that white house official saying brett kavanaugh is not going to withdraw. i want to go back that, especially when you bring that up, that this woman found many inaccuracies in the reporting because there are so many details in this "washington post" article. i want to read you part of them, especially the part where she was worried about kavanaugh's

ascension to the highest court in the land, saying in part, in an interview with her husband, russell ford, said in the 2012 sessions, she recounted being trapped in a room with two drunken boys. one of whom pinned her to a bed, molested her and preventing her from screaming. he said he recalled that his wife used kavanaugh's last name and voiced concern that kavanaugh, then a federal judge, might one day be nominated to the supreme court. so wendy, i ask you, how does her identification, the fact that we now have a name and there are photos circulating out there of her, how does that change the game for kavanaugh? >> it makes it that she's no longer a strawman. oftentimes when we have accusations of sexual assault, there's not a face that goes with the stories, not a face that goes with the name. now we have someone who can potentially sit at the highest office in the land, so to speak, and the arbitrator of right and wrong, and they're being accused of sexual misconduct. this is something that has to be investigated further. especially in the era of the me

too movement. we have women who are scared to come out, and i would say that this individual also was scared to come out. that's part of the delay here. now that her voice is being heard, we have to investigate this further. not only was her story corroborated from evidence that she gave to her therapist six years ago. she also passed a polygraph test that was administered by an fbi agent. we need to -- >> former fbi agent. >> yes. >> go ahead. >> no, so because of the former fbi agent, all of that information, when we coalesce them together, we see that this is something that both the committee as well as the american people, we deserve concrete answers to. >> all right, well, we especially when it comes to potential delay hearing, democratic senators calling for a delay in the vote, some of the first we heard from senator feinstein, chuck schumer, kamala harris, all calling for a pause. andrew, is that going to happen? >> i think republicans are going to be very reluctant to delay

the vote at all because they do not want to spend a lot of time digging into these allegations, opening this up, making this the topic of discussion for days and days on end. they would just rather steamroll ahead and hold the vote anyway. now, you know, the senate judiciary committee, there's only a one vote margin. any one republican could come out and say i think we should take more time and delay on this. but i don't necessarily expect that to happen. the vote is currently set for thursday. and i would bet that it would go forward then. >> not only are there calls for a delay, but we also heard from diane feinstein right off the bat, also saying that this is with the fbi and fbi will be looking into it. what is the possibility here of the fbi getting involved with an investigation? >> there's little if any possibility that the fbi will investigate this for any criminal prosecution. because number one, this is not the province of the federal

bureau of investigation. number two, any applicable federal statute of limitations has probably passed. for the same reason, there are likely no charges available in state court under maryland law or any other applicable state law because the statute of limitations has passed. and even if had it not, this is a juvenile situation because you apparently have two people who were under the age of majority. so the likelihood that there's going to be a criminal investigation, minimal. however, i bring you back 26 years to clarence thomas, the first time he ever learned that anita hill was making allegations against him, according to him, was when the fbi came and knocked on his door. so the extent to which -- >> is this different? i want to ask you, danny, in that sense, because it was sexual harassment. this is sexual assault. she feared for her life. >> the nature is different, but the question was, would the fbi be involved? and the answer to that is they may be involved if not investigating in a criminal context, but they may be

involved in investigating this, only because we have seen them do it in the past when they knocked on clarence thomas' door to ask him about allegations against him as a nominee. >> i want to go back with reaction we have seen, again, the list of democrats calling for a delay growing, but also some republicans. we her from chuck grassley who released a statement condemning the timing of these, quote, uncorroborated 35-year-old allegations and referring to the letters of support for kavanaugh from the women also just got a statement from lindsey graham saying, however, if miss ford wishes to provide information to the committee, i would gladly listen to what she has to say and compare that against all the other information we have about judge kavanaugh. if the committee is to hear from miss ford, it should be done immediately so the process can continue as scheduled. so is that something you anticipate, wendy, we might hear more and more, maybe the reason

for the pause in the hearings? >> i think that what lindsey graham is doing is trying to get out in front of this in a different way. because we see the call of lots of republicans saying, you know, this is 30 years old. this doesn't make any sense. but now he's saying i'm willing to listen. and i think that there's going to be this growing quorum of people saying she needs her day to state her story. that's what's really important here. so she needs to have the ability to say this is what happened to me. this is what i believe, you know, makes it so this individual cannot have the decorum or the moral apitude to serve on the highest court on the land and they mead to make a decision based on that. to just say thursday we're going to move forward and vote without giving her her day is just beyond the pale. and every woman deserves the right to be able to have their voice heard. >> andrew, last question for you. what would that look like? what can we expect if she is called to testify? >> well, if she's brought before the committee and testifies

under oath, it would certainly be so much attention would fall on that, and she would have to walk through her story, what she remembers, and you know, i assume she would face a ton of skeptical questioning from the republican side. and you know, it's a lot of pressure to do something like that. and she may not want to. another possibility is that she could give a deposition behind closed doors in private with some committee staff. that would also be legally binding. you know, she would not be allowed to lie without committing a crime. but that would be a way to do it away from the bright lights. >> very interesting, in her perspective, in her words based on this article on coming forward and giving her name and detail, she said now i feel like my civic responsibility is outweighing my anguish and terror about retaliation. we'll see if that applies if there is testimony from her, if that happens. kristen welker, wendy, andrew, and danny, to all of you, thank you for the perspective.

>> thank you. still much more to cover with this latest development. the woman who accused brett kavanaugh of sexual assault is speaking out to "the washington pos post". hear from the reporter who broke the story as our discussion on the breaking news continues after the break. ♪ ♪ i'm going to be your substitute teacher. don't assume the substitute teacher has nothing to offer... same goes for a neighborhood. don't forget that friendships last longer than any broadway run. mr. president. (laughing) don't settle for your first draft. or your 10th draft. ♪ ♪ you get to create the room where it happens. ♪ ♪ just don't think you have to do it alone. ♪ ♪ the powerful backing of american express. don't live life without it. ahoy! gotcha!

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democrats are calling for a delay in thursday's senate judiciary vote on supreme court nominee brett kavanaugh following the explosive allegations by accuser christine

blasey ford in "the washington post" today. the post identified ford as a woman who wrote the confidential kavanaugh letter accusing the judge of sexual assault in the early 1980s. emma brown broke the story and joined us earlier. >> i can only say she made for her was a very difficult decision to come forward and i think she knows she's going to face a lot of skepticism, criticism, and attacks. so she's already made the decision to be public. i would not be surprised if she was willing to speak to senators about her experience. >> senator dianne feinstein is among those calling for thursday's vote to be postponed saying i support mrs. ford's decision to share her story and now that she has, it's in the hands of the fbi to conduct an investigation. this should happen before the senate moves forward on this nominee. feinstein received ford's letter in july but only referred it to the fbi this past thursday. kavanaugh declined to comment further on today's post story

but has said he categorically and unequivocally denies the allegation and did not do this back in high school or at any time. nbc reached out to the white house which referred us back to kavanaugh's statement and said they're sticking by the judge's denial. joining me now, katie better, also rick wilson, republican strategist and author of "everything trump touches dies." so we start with this. the calls for delay growing longer from democrats, but katie, you have the chair of the senate judiciary committee, chuck grassley, who signaled that vote will go on as planned. this is what he said, judge kavanaugh's background has been thoroughly vetted by the fbi on six different occasions throughout his decades of public service and no such allegations surfaced. why are republicans rushing to hold a vote on kavanaugh? >> i think hey see kavanaugh as a secure shing and a way to secure the supreme court for conservatives for decades to come. that would make sense. they want to push this through.

we should report just because the fbi hasn't found something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. they have missed things in investigations before. it makes sense the republican strategy would be to push it through because in many ways both democrats and republicans have acknowledged kavanaugh is an extremely strong candidate. what we're really talking about here, not being able to predict the future, if we pull back from the details we're looking at a situation where the country is asked to decide, hodo we expect powerful men to behave? as we watch the vote go forward or not, that's the bigger question put to senators like murkowski and collins. >> that's what i want to ask you, rick, what's at stake for republicans, if they move ahead with this vote, especially knowing the new information, the details information. a name now, how that may come into play with lisa murkowski and susan collins. >> i think that it's a relevant question right now. but i also think we have to remember that one man runs this process in the end, and that's

mitch mcconnell. and senator mcconnell has essentially said, you know, we're moving forward on this, damn the torpedos. so we're going to see political repercussions play out in this, but if you're not looking -- if you're watching, if you're not watching mitch mcconnell carefully, you'll miss the fact that he is, you know, he's unresponsive to external pressures right now. he's going to get this nomination through. i predict, you know, at whatever political cost comes down the line for it because he is a very determined figure. and people underestimate him at their peril. >> when it comes to the republics. we heard from chuck grassley, also senator lindsey graham, who just released a statement saying if mrs. ford wishes to provide information to the committee, i would gladly listen to what she has to say and compare that against all other information we have received about judge kavanaugh. so what is the likelihood of her testifying and how may that impact the nomination process? katie? >> well, this is real shades of

anita hill and clarence thomas now. i think the testimony would be electrifying. i think it would galvanize the country and really bring out some sharp, sharp, sharp divisions right now over what's happening around me too. we have decided as a country that the way things have been and the conduct that we have allowed men to get away with in positions of power is unacceptable, but what we haven't decided is what conduct is acceptable, and if that were to happen, if she would come forward and testify, that would be a marker in the sand. >> we're all waiting to see what the president has to say about this, whether it be on twitter, through a statement. we did hear from a white house official this afternoon through reporting from kristen welker about this, and when asked if the white house was considering withdrawing the kavanaugh nomination, it was a firm no when it comes to that. rick, what do you take from that being a firm no right away? >> well, i think that there's no way they can back down off this nomination. i think they have, you know, one of the few things donald trump

has to hold out there is the supreme court justices that he's gotten one on the court and one in nomination process. so i don't think they're in a political position to back down from it. but as a lot of these things, you know, it's the old hemingway thing. it happened slowly and all at once. if it does fall apart, it will fall apart quickly, but as of right now, it looks to me from the outside like senator mcconnell is going to continue to push this forward, and the white house, i don't think they have any choice but to push forward on it at this point. so in their political calculus. >> i want to ask you because you mentioned shades of anita hill. in this sense, when you have this reporting and christine blasey ford calling this a rape attempt, that she thought that he might inadvertently kill me, how does that factor in and change things? katie. >> oh, so sorry. i wasn't sure who you were throwing the question to. it's an assault.

it's an extraordinarily terrifying account she's given us, given the public. >> one thing we have to make clear is there's probably not going to be a criminal prosecution, procedure not going to be a criminal investigation. but what it does is brings to light this question of what behavior is acceptable. i think at this point, post harvey weinstein, post me too, we have decided this is not acceptable behavior. i think what happens is the stakes are very high, not just for this hearing but for the midterms. if voters feel that politicians rushed this process, if they feel that this woman's account was not fully taken seriously, what are the consequences? we saw after anita hill that a lot of women decided to become more interested in politics and get into politics. will we see something happen again? there's an argument to be made this could galvanize both sides. at the same time, if a lot of people, men and women, feel in this age, an alleged victim isn't being taken seriously, that could have consequences in november. >> what is different this time around, it's not a media executive, not a celebrity.

this is somebody who is a nominee for the highest court in the land. thank you so much. >> thank you. still ahead, the russia connection with the president's former campaign chairman might be offering up to mueller.

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it is very likely that paul manafort has indicated through his counsel and directly that he can provide very helpful information, useful information, to get to the bottom of what bob mueller and his team have been charged to do. so it's a very significant breakthrough. >> former independent counsel for the clinton white water investigation, ken starr, calling paul manafort's guilty plea in robert mueller's investigation a breakthrough. the former campaign chair is now the latest trump associate to cooperate in the probe. manafort struck a deal that includes guilty pleas to two charges filed in washington, d.c. while admitting to guilt to ten charges in his virginia case. now he'll have to answer all of mueller's questions and could be the russia connection that the special counsel has been searching for.

renewed speculation president trump's former fixer michael cohen could be a corroborated witness after vanity fair reported cohen has likely been in touch with mueller. joining me is glen kurshner and malcolm nance, and author of "the plot to destroy democracy" and craig, author of "house of trump house of putin." let's get started glen with you. watch what adam schiff had to say about manafort's cooperation with bob mueller. let's listen. >> manafort is a key person to help us unwind whether this is the most improbable string of unlikely coincidences of whether this was an an act of conspiracy. clearly, the trump team is terrified about what manafort may have to say. >> that's how you view it, this is about fear of manafort? >> absolutely. absolutely. they may think they know what manafort has to say because he was part of the joint defense agreement, but they have to know that he may not have told them

the full truth. >> glenn, so what could manafort have to say to mueller? >> well, frances, it seems pretty clear that paul manafort could very well be the bridge between the trump campaign and russia. it's been well reported that manafort was working for many years for the pro-russian interests in ukraine. he was lying about his lobbying efforts on behalf of those forces here in the united states. and, you know, it seems to me, frances, that when somebody in paul manafort's situation, who had already been convicted of eight felony counts in the virginia case, who was facing almost certain conviction of multiple felony counts in the district of columbia case that was brought against him, when he sits down in that secure interview room with bob mueller, hoping to become a cooperating witness, and hoping for a benefit, he would have to really bring the goods. and i'm not just talking about

against donald trump. but about everybody who may be relevant to the investigation into russian collusion and conspiracy. and cover-ups. so the mueller team already had mr. manafort where they wanted him by virtue of his conviction in virginia. so i suspect having been in many of those meetings myself over my 30 years as a federal prosecutor, when i would sit in those secure interview rooms and i would meet with defendants who hoped to become cooperating witne witnesses, they better be completely truthful and have some extraordinarily relevant information. i suspect that's what paul manafort gave the mueller team. >> you call it bringing the goods. that may be about that trump tower meeting. craig, you have written about that meeting, the infamous meeting from 2016 with the russians there. and we know that paul manafort was in there, the only one now cooperating with the special counsel. but when it comes to that, who else was there?

donald trump jr. i want to play this before we start chatting here, a little more of what he had to say earlier. >> your father has denied reports that he's worried you might be in legal jeopardy because of the mueller investigation. but are you scared you could go to jail? >> i'm not because i know what i did and i'm not worried about any of that. it doesn't mean they won't try to create something. we have seen that with everything, but again, i'm not. >> all right, just to be clear here, that interview was before manafort made this deal. so craig, where does this come into play as far as arrows that may point to don jr., to jared kushner, or even the president himself? >> right, it's helpful to have the context. i don't know exactly who paul manafort is. he and roger stone were sort of known as the dictators' loppiests, the torturers' lobbyists. they reveled in taking millions of dollars to represent really sort of sleazy autocrats. when you look at what he did in ukraine, he was working for vladimir putin. he was installing a pro-putin

president in ukraine. and it's almost as if he was -- that was a dry run for the events of 2016. so when that meeting took place, he knew exactly what was going on. people repeatedly misrepresented what happened there. one of the people there was a guy named kaveladze who said he was there as a translator. that's really not the story. he ten years earlier had started many, many cell companies for laundering money. so there's a whole story that has to be unraveled here, and manafort would know the answers. >> when it comes to unraveling, malcolm, i want to ask you, does that really put donald trump jr., jared kushner, even the president himself in a tough position, even more than before? malcolm. >> yeah, it puts him in a phenomenally tough position. in so much as the fact that paul manafort, before he came on the trump campaign, as craig was just saying, he did more than just assist the government.

he was there to do a disinformation operation and dirty trick operations that even at one point led to an attack on a u.s. marine corps unit that was exercising in crimea. so donald trump, his son, and everyone else who was in the room with him will now have to consider if they don't already know, was this man actually an agent of moscow? not just somebody who was associated with them through the oligarchs. and that's one of the big mysteries that i think that, you know, maybe it's off to the side, but i think that's one of the mysteries that mueller is going to want to answer. was he, as your first guest said, was he the bridge, not just to the kremlin but to russian intelligence in terms of carrying out a massive operation to elect an american president. >> you know, we haven't heard from the president address manafort's deal directly. after the deal was announced, we did hear from him attacking the mueller investigation on twitter. that was the first time since it

was announced, claiming that mueller is highly conflicted and says the investigation should not be allowed under the law. glenn, i want to ask you about that. what does he mean, under the law, and how likely will trump tell the attorney general to put a stop to it? >> you know, what he means, frances, is i hope there are enough people who will listen to what he says, not look behind it, and not recognize that judge after judge after judge has looked at this issue and has concluded that mueller's investigation is appropriate. it's lawful. his appointment by deputy attorney general rosenstein was lawful and was with keeping within department of justice policy. so, you know, the president is on a public relations campaign. as is mr. giuliani. as is sarah huckabee sanders. they keep complaining and protesting that none of these cases we have seen thus far have anything to do with russian collusion or conspiracy.

that's because mr. mueller's team is still investigating the russian collusion conspiracy and cover-up piece of this. that will be the next shoe to drop, and then i don't think the president will be heard to complain anymore that this is no longer about russian collusion, conspiracy, and cover-up, because that's exactly what the last phase of bob mueller's case will show the american people. >> well, pre-plea deal here, we were talking a lot in our coverage about a pardon. so craig, i want to address this question to you. does this kill the possibilities of any chance of a pardon? >> i don't know whether it does or not, but i do think trump is -- what you have is manafort has so many people that they can rely on their testimony and play them off each other. if one starts to lie, he can go to all the others. that's going to spell real trouble for donald trump. >> and all the others may actually include another name, michael cohen, especially with the conversations. we don't know the extent or the purpose of that. so malcolm, when it comes to

that, do you see that coming into play when it comes to pardon and that possibility? >> involving michael cohen? i think that -- >> go ahead. >> yeah, you know, i don't think pardon is going to be on the table right now. i think that donald trump has already convinced himself that, you know, either manafort is not really going to talk, and he'll never know until the real evidence comes out of just precisely what he said in his proffers there. if i were him, i certainly wouldn't rely on that. but you have to understand, the mueller investigation has got -- has identified, must have, multiple dirty tricks teams here. all right. manafort is just one link going back to deripaska and possibly back to moscow. michael flynn, michael cohen, and all the other players in there, all have their own independent links. if i were mueller, i would be going after these individuals, not just for their testimony but

what their testimony can bring in terms of documentation. so he can really seal the deal. >> all right, especially, we know, again, these talks that cohen is having now, to what extent, we'll see. okay, glenn, stay with us. malcolm, craig, thanks to you. now to a real life threatening situation in the carolinas. floodwaters from tropical depression florence are spilling over into neighborhoods forcing residents from their homes. we'll have a live report from the cape fear region where all eyes are on the rapidly rising river.

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resident at this hour still dealing with heavy amounts of rain across the carolinas. the death toll stands at 16. the storm has been downgraded to a tropical depression and the big concern now is rising floodwaters. north carolina is pounded with record rain of up to 30 inches in some spots. at last count, more than 600,000 people were still without power. in jacksonville, north carolina, some people returned home to total devastation. flooding has damaged cars and homes, leaving people with nothing. want to go to lumberton, north carolina, where river levels are rising. nbc's matt bradley is there. matt, have you noticed a rise in the waters? it seems like they're pretty forceful there behind you. >> that's right, frances. we were here earlier today.

it was quite a dramatic scene, as you can see. this is supposed to be a levee. this was actually built not by professionals, mostly built by the people of lumberton earlier last week. they all came out with shovels and tried to build this levee to protect their town. now, in the last couple of hours, what we saw were earth movers moving back and forth across what was a parking lot here, trying to re-enforce this berm. and in the last couple hours, they failed. as you can see, the levee basically, the waters breached the levee and now the town is being flooded. now, this is so tragic for so many reasons. lumberton is one of the poorest cities -- excuse me, towns in north carolina. and they're still reeling from the effects of flooding two years ago after hurricane matthew. there were fatalities then. you know, the river now is at 24 feet. the river normally floods at 13 feet. it's going to crest tomorrow at about 25.7 feet. and so that's not that much more water, but the problem is,

frances, is that that level, almost that level, is going to remain until friday. so that means this water is going to continue flowing into the town and we're going to have much, much worse of flooding here, maybe akin to something we saw in 2016 that was so tragic after hurricane matthew. >> when it comes to the residents of lumberton, talk a little bit about that. have many already evacuated? have you talked with a number staying there and riding it out even as the river crests tomorrow? >> this town is so poor that actually, a lot of the residents of this town left and never came back after 2016, after hurricane matthew. the ones who did remain and who are here for this event, a lot of them have already evacuated. they have especially evacuated now that the levee has broken. but some of them have remained here. they're going to stay. they're going to stay with their homes. they survived 2016 and they're going to see if they can survive this one. >> hopefully they will stay safe. as the water continues to rise.

matt bradley, thank you. now to breaking news. a woman accuses supreme court nominee brett kavanaugh of sexual assault decades ago is now telling her story. how kavanaugh supporters are reacting and what it means for his nomination. uhp. i didn't believe it. again. ♪ ooh, baby, do you know what that's worth? ♪ i want to believe it. [ claps hands ] ♪ ooh i'm not hearing the confidence. okay, hold the name your price tool. power of options based on your budget! and! ♪ we'll make heaven a place on earth ♪ yeah! oh, my angels! ♪ ooh, heaven is a place on earth ♪ [ sobs quietly ] oscar mayer deli fresh ham has no added nitrates, nitrites or artificial preservatives. now deli fresh flavor is for everyone. like those who like... sweet. those who prefer heat. and those who just love meat. oscar mayer deli fresh. a fresh way to deli.

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the white house is standing by brett kavanaugh, tellic nbc news he will not be withdrawing his nomination for the supreme court. today, "the washington post" published one woman's allegation of sexual assault against kavanaugh when he was in high school. according to the post, the accuser, christine blasey ford, first revealed the allegation in couples therapy with her husband in 2012. she's recently retained an attorney and submitted to a polygraph which indicated she was truthful, according to the post. kavanaugh has declined further comment in the matter and said i categorically and unequivocally deny this allegation. i did not do this in high school or at any time. when nbc asked the white house for comment, they referred us back to kavanaugh's statement. glenn is back with me, also joining me is daniel strauss, national political reporter for politico, and also lisa graves, former chief counsel for nominations for the ranking democrat on the senate judiciary committee. let's get started with you,

lisa. as we know, kavanaugh was widely expected to be confirmed. but when you weigh in the detailed allegations now and a name behind it, does it change the equation? >> well, i think it does. you have a situation where she's courageously come forward and made serious and credible allegations against this nominee. i think it would be irresponsible for the senate judiciary committee to proceed with a vote next week, in fact, it was be contemptuous of women across america to continue to try to rush this nomination to a vote. i think the nomination should be withdrawn. that's really the only reasonable course of action here, especially where you have a nominee who has testified in ways that are so misleading about the facts and the law, about the issue of what was the digital watergate, the theft of the senate judiciary committee's files when he was in the white house counsel's office and what he knew and when he knew about that, as well az husband statements to numerous members of the committee under oath. in this instance, while people

have certainly pointed out there's a statute of limitations on being criminally prosecuted for an allegation of rape, there's no statute of limitations on this woman telling her ststoriy about whet this man i vote ford someone who for a lifetime job for decades to come who is -- who has been the recipient of an allegation this serious. >> well, we'll hear from more democrats and that list is growing calling for a postponement when it comes to a vote. dianne feinstein, chuck schumer among the first to respond saying this should be slowed down and paused. going to you, a senator has been asking president trump's judicial nominees if they sexually assaulted anyone or made unwanted advances of a

sexual nature since they became a legal adult. i'll play it for you. >> since you became a legal adult, you have ever made unwanted requests for a sexual favor or committed any verbal or physical harassment or assault of a sexual nature? >> no. >> hey, crucial the date on that, glen, september 5th. what do you make of that exchange? >> well, for instance, first of all, he was asked the question as an adult. it seems that this was an incident back in high school. so perhaps he was a juvenile. but over and above that, he has categorically denied ever doing this. so i mean first and foremost, let's hope we don't now take a sexual assault victim and use her as a political football. it seems like this issue is now going to receive some attention and perhaps some litigation so to speak in the hearing. and i think it's probably good that she decided not to remain annan mus because i think that would have ended badly for everybody. but now that this is out in the

open, if there is a hearing conducted of this allegation, let's hope that everybody conducts the hearing with decency and respect and empathy and we don't drag a sexual assault victim through the mud similarly let's hope that they give judge kavanaugh every opportunity with decease ency and respect to address this issue and then we have to let the american people decide who they believe, what they believe and how it might impact judge kavanaugh's nomination. i will finish by saying, francis, delayed reporting bisexual assault victims is entirely usual in my experience. so that is not a reason to discredit or disbelieve miss ford. >> we heard from two republicans here. lindsey graham said if she wishes to provide information i'll gladly listen as part of the statement. we also heard from chuck grassley who said judge kavanaugh's background is thoroughly vetted on six decades

and no allegation ever surfaced. judge kavanaugh and others alleged to have been involved denied the claims from the high school days. the committee received a letter after letter from those who have known judge catch nau professka professionally and personally speaking to his character and respect for others, especially women. so are democrats somewhat -- can you point the finger at them for not raising this matter sooner? and how do you weigh this when you have one incident although it is serious accusations stacking up against years of pretty much scandal-free service? >> i really don't think there's much of a case to be made that democrats can take the blame for not bringing this up sooner. it's the senate republicans nomination. and this is their nominee. this is something we're going to be hearing about over the next few months. this will be something that's going to seep into discussion on major senate races and probably congressional races too.

it will be something that a lot of republicans will be asked about on the campaign trail. do you think that -- do you think the senate judiciary committee should withdraw kavanaugh's nomination? i think that will be a trending topic. >> when we look back at the hist with anita hill hearing. came forward two days before clarence thomas' vote. is it fair to compare these, lisa, given the fact that with clarence thomas that was sexual harassment. in this case, it's an accusation of sexual assault in her words, a rape attempt. i thought he might inadvertently kill me as "the washington post" reports. it is even fair to compare this? >> well, i think this is a far more serious allegation as the allegation described by the professor. to the question of the fbi would have uncovered this sooner, i read dozens of fbi files when i was attorney general at the

justice department. those files mostly go over your time since you were 18 years old. they talk to your employer and roommate about almost cold war questions about whether you have smoked pot and whether you have in any association with communists. that's not really what that investigation gets at n this case, i think it's very serious and i think that her statements and the fact she has passed a lie detector test make it credible. i don't that i this nomination should proceed. i think it should be withdrawn and i don't think we should have a debacle like we did with senatanita hill where they were treating her unfairly in that questioning. >> that's a big question i want to ask you in the last few moments here. can she be forced to testify? he. >> i don't know whether she can be forced to testify. i'll think we'll hear her testimony in one way or another. you can see the arguments

evolving on both sides of the issue. miss ford did pos a polygraph administered by a retired fbi agent. that is important. she did report this could her counsellor some years ago. it doesn't seem like it was made up recently for surprises of this hearing. i think we have to stay tuned. >> we're out of time. thanks for the perspective as always. great to have you with me. >> thanks. >> and that does it for me for this hour. be sure to join casey hunt at 7:00 p.m. for "kasie dc" but first, it's "meet the press." my digestive system used to make me feel sluggish

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he's only going to be here for like a week. like a month, tops. oh boy. wi-fi fast enough for the whole family is simple, easy, awesome. in many cultures, young men would stay with their families until their 40's. this sunday, historic flooding from hurricane florence. >> i've been here 20 years and this is the worst i have ever seen. >> hundreds without power. so many being rescued. >> i think people thought they could ride it out. they didn't realize how high the river would come. >> the worst the yet the come. this morning i'll talk to the fema administrator and the mayor of new bern, north carolina. plus, manafort flips. president trump's one-time campaign chief pleads guilty and agrees to cooperation with robert mueller.