signup.axios.com. >> that does it for us. "morning joe" starts right now. >> i want to give a victory speech. i want to give a victory speech on the evening of election day which is coming up very quickly. we're not going to let people undo the incredible job that we've done. remember, they say you'll never gets that. they said that about everything. ladies and gentlemen, the winner is donald trump. remember the tears, crying, crying. oh. oh. >> it was simply crazy. it was -- actually, melania was crying. >> that's the inside story. >> melania was crying after they won. they didn't expect to win. he was in a state of shock. >> yes. >> he was like, wait, i'm not going to be able to start my own

breitbart tv network? i have to do my own gig for a couple of years? >> random stuff from the president last night. good morning, everyone. welcome to "morning joe" on this friday, september 21st. >> he cries himself to sleeve every night. >> with my wubbie. >> along with susan delpercio, jeremy, rick tyler, and pulitzer prize winning columnist, msnbc political columnist eugene robinson is with us, as well. >> first of all, as a republican communication guru, how are the republicans doing right now in this kavanaugh fight? >> not particularly well, joe. but i think the tide is -- well,

look, here is the problem. this whole process is not designed to get at the truth and now you have this lawyer, katz, who is representing blasey. and they're putting all these conditions on a hearing. and i think this is maybe backfiring on the republicans -- not the republicans a little bit, but on the democrats a little bit. >> but on the democrats and, donnie, you're a pr guy. if you're running pr for the republicans, the last thing that you want is to have dr. ford testifying on the committee. so is it more preconditions they set down, the more you're going, thank you, thank you, now if you can make it on a rocket ship to mars, thank you. make this as impossible as you can for us. it seems to me that at some point the democrats are going to have to step in and say, listen, we need your client up there.

yeah. what the republicans don't understand -- and she will get up there. but i don't know if any of these republicans have any wives or daughters or sisters or in friends that in any way have gone through an assault, but when you listen to a woman talk about how she's gone through and they believe what the breath smells like and everything about it and their eyes well up in tears, do they not understand what's going to happen when this woman gets up there? if they in any way, shape -- >> of course they do. this is why they don't want her to get up there. >> but she will get up there. >> but they don't want her to get up there. >> so maybe they're trying to get a legal counsel to ask questions. but now ford is saying they're not going to do that. every day this the goes on and another condition is brought up is another horrible day for the republicans. and we saw a lot of frustration. i thought it was particularly interesting when susan collins spoke up and said you're moving

the goal post on us a little bit and pushing and saying, we can't keep jumping through hoops for you you. but it is horrible for republicans. the fact that they have to go to an outside counsel because they need to have a woman -- they don't need outside counsel. they need a woman to ask her questions. this is going to be disaster for the republicans and, yet, they still probably need to try and force this through. if they don't get this done by next thursday, it's off the table. >> i think if they find a woman litigator to cross-examination here, that's preferable to having or yib hatch goirin hatc lady, i think you're a little mixed up in your head. >> but they don't keep their mouths shut. they don't know how to handle themselves.

>> why don't we talk about that in the news? >> new polling is showing support for brett kavanaugh's supreme court nomination has fallen since he's been accused of committing a sexual assault or an attempted sexual assault while in high school. according to a new nbc news "wall street journal" poll, 38% of voters now say they oppose his confirmation. that is up nine points since last month when 29% were opposed. this is the first time in the poll that a supreme court nominee has been under water on this the confirmation question. increased opposition to kavanaugh has come in particular from women over plus 50 who were plus tree in august and minus seven now. suburban women whose support

wentz down five times last month, independents who are plus 15 this month are negative 16 now, a 31-point drop. and seniors were plus nine in august and are negative ten now. >> so gene robinson, that poll and a quarter won't even buy you a cup of coffee at a starbucks on capitol hill. but it does point to the bigger -- i mean, as far as the outcome of kavanaugh, none of the senators will be looking at those poll numbers. but people who are running in the suburban districts of hillary clinton won and that republicans hold are looking at those numbers because, man, that is just one more nail in their political coffin. the very groups that they are already losing, they're bleeding even more support from. >> yeah, they are. and, you know, those numbers, 38-34, that means there are a lot of undecided out there. there are a lot of people who aren't paying as close attention as we are.

when this hearing happens, and i think it will happen, it will -- those numbers will go up. more people will have an opinion on kavanaugh and i see the opposed number having a much better chance of rising farther and faster than the support number because of what donnie said, because of what the spectacle is almost sure to be like. and so then i think you'll see more republicans paying attention to those numbers and they will be quite worrisome. they feel at this point that they have to move ahead, that they'll be worse off if they fail to get kavanaugh through, but that equation could change after the hearing. >> jeremy peters, you're looking at how the evangelical community leaders in particular are looking at the kavanaugh

confirmation. they're frustrated. tell us why. >> because they see a chance to cement a conservative on the supreme court for a generation. >> what do they think is not being done? >> that's a good question because it's hard to argue that the republicans aren't doing everything they can to try and speed this along. >> they're in a difficult position. >> if you're chuck grassley, do you move the hearing a few days forward? that doesn't seem like an unreasonable ask, republican. and republicans have been having two conversations, one, publicly trying to. as reasonable and differential in public saying, yes, we will accommodate you. we will come to you. we will send investigators. we will -- we won't put you in front of a public commission and make you do this on television. on the other hand, because republicans are under so much pressure from their base to get this done, from especially evangelical christian catholic

leaders, a lot of whom were involved in the selection process of kavanaugh in the first place, they realize they -- if they do not get this done, if kavanaugh's nomination falls apart, that very well could be the end of the republican control of the senate because the voters would just be so angry, so depressed, so deflated. >> at last night's rally in las vegas, president trump said that brett kavanaugh has tremendous support and called the judge a great gentleman. and in a prevalley interview with fox news, the president questioned why the accuser waited. >> frankly, you see what's going on and it's very, very sad. you say why didn't somebody call the fbi 36 years ago? you can also say when did this all happen? what's going on? to take a man like this and -- with that being said, let her have her say and let's see how

it all works out, but i don't think uk delay it any longer. they've delayed it a week already. >> and oouyou've been very accommodating. >> i have been very accommodating. let her say what she has to say and let's see how it all comes out. but they've delayed it a week and they have to get on with it. >> judges, oh, look at our judges. oh, what's going on? >> brett kavanaugh -- and i'm not saying anything about anybody else, but let me tell you that brett kavanaugh is one of the finest human beings you will ever have the privilege of knowing or meeting. a great intellect. a great gentleman. an impeccable reputation. so we'll let it play out.

and i think everything is going to be just fine. and we're going to get -- we just got kneel goneil gorsuch. we're going to get brett. we've got great people. >> you know the compliments that he's showering brett kavanaugh with are the same ones that we heard him talking about mike flynn, jeff sessions -- no, i'm serious. >> rob portman, wonderful guy. roy moore. >> the candidate whose baby wore the make america great again. >> ron desantis. he doesn't like ron desantis any more. >> oh, not any more? okay. >> but it's interesting, he's talking about what a great guy kavanaugh is. kavanaugh was over at the white house for hours a couple of days ago and trump wouldn't even see it because right now he thinks he's toxic. >> well, it is a difficult

conversation. i think for democrats and republicans, there's not a lot of wiggle room for -- >> the very thing that he said about why didn't she come forward? that's the insane, ignorant male booby trap that any of these idioter -- and her answer would be because i was terrified or i was ashamed. so suggest that asks the ignorance -- >> we don't ask that question of chen or young adults that come forward against the catholic church. nobody is asking why children are, you know, young boys or young teenagers didn't come forward. it's a question of young men. so why are they asking that question of a young woman? >> this is exactly what the problem is with this nomination where it stands now. is there was an allegation made. there are some real legitimate

questions to be asked. but at the same time, we have president donald trump is doing what he did last night was basically almost the kiss of death. this is not the person you want your endorsement from right now. we see a rolling effect of frankly senators, male senators who say really silly ridiculous things and it's hurting kavanaugh more and more and we're moving further and further away from actually the issue at hand. and the allegation that something happened 36 years ago that we don't know the place or the time, that would make it very hard to get details from and now it's just explode intoog a whole nother conversation and that's really going to -- i think that's going to end the nomination for judge kavanaugh. >> i mentioned the room for error here. a pair of republican lawmakers are facing backlash over their comments amid the assault allegation against judge kavanaugh. in a conference call with nevada republicans on wednesday, senator dean heller reportedly

predicted kavanaugh would be.confirmed despite the allegations saying we've got a hiccup here with the kavanaugh nomination. we'll get through this and we'll get aif to the races. in a follow-up statement, heller said, no, i don't believe sexual assault allegations of any kind are a hiccup. i was referring to how poorly the democrats have handled this process and the fact that the democrats have not worked with the judiciary committee chairman in good faith. meanwhile, in south carolina, republican congressman ralph norman opened a debate with a joke about the kavanaugh controversy. >> i thought i was going to be late. did y'all hear the latest late-breaking news from the kavanaugh hearings? ruth bader ginsburg came out that it was groped by abraham lincoln. i thought i was going to have to get back there, but we don't. >> here is what orrin hatch said earlier in the week. >> do you think that any of these claims are legitimate? >> no, i don't.

i think this woman, whoever she is, is mixed up. >> rick tyler. did you ever do any communication work for either of those three republicans? >> the if so, just leave. >> turn off the lights. >> exactly. one of the things we should have learned from the anita hill hearing is not to preserve those optics. and that is exactly what they're doing. now, the republicans are aware of this, which is why they want to hire a female outside counsel. but i think what they're saying, what blasey ford's lawyer is saying is they don't want to put her in the position of being cross-examined. you're stuck between her being cross-examined by a female attorney or preserving the optics of the anita hill hearing which is you have all these white men cross-examining her. that's what they want to avoid. his polling numbers are under water, but that's been a

reflection of the president. most supreme court nominees, nobody hears it when they're nominated so their polling reflects that of the united states. so it's gotten worse and worse. here is what we don't see in the polling or we didn't talk about it already today. the democrats have solidified, in other words, more of them now think that her claim is serious and true. and more democrats -- republicanes don't. so this is hyper partisan suspicion on both sides. so the republicans are dammed if they do and damned if they don't. if they don't look like they're doing everything to put kavanaugh through, they'll dispirit their base and that will be a big problem. but on the other hand, if they -- on the other hand, if they risk losing independent and particularly women in the upcoming election -- the. >> when you look at the poll and, again, it -- if you're a republican strategist trying to figure out how in the world you

stop a blue wave from sweeping over the house and the senate, you're looking at independent numbers that are collapsing for the president, they're collapsing for kavanaugh. you look at women -- suburban women collapsing for trump, collapsing for kavanaugh. all the categories are that dropping like a rock for republicans, dropping also for kavanaugh. man, that is a real problem in an off year election. >> gene, am i crazy? not that it's going to happen, but the only move to the republicans at this point is because basically you're seeing on display a metaphor for what this party is which is basically ignorant white men. what would they seem like if all of a sudden they stepped forward and said this is, at the very least, a stain we can't deal with and just say this is not the right thing and we need to move on. wouldn't that send a signal to women? i know i'm living in dreamland, but i don't know what the other play is for them. >> the other play is to just try

to blow it through and kind of hope for the best. but they are in a -- in a lose on the one hand, lose big on the other hand kind of situation. i do think that if they withdraw the nomination, they probably will be punished by their base. and if they push this through without giving what even a -- you know, a fair and honest hearing to dr. ford's charges, those numbers for independents, those should be just horrifying. and for republicans across the country. they really should be. i mean, that's the number i'm looking at. if independents defect in those kinds of numbers, it's a total disaster. so how do you, you know -- >> they don't have a very good play. i tend to agree with you that maybe the better play is to fold

on this one, but i don't think they're going to do it. >> the only problem with folding on this, and jeremy pointed this out, mika, is you will be going into the election, going back to your base. and your base will be saying, wait a second, you've been telling us for eight years you were going to repeal obamacare. you have the house, the senate, the presidency, and you couldn't repeal obamacare. and you've been telling us for 40 years that you were going to reverse roe v. wade. the house and the senate and the presidency and you couldn't reverse roe v. wade. you couldn't get this guy on the court that was the fifth vote for roe v. wade. so i think jeremy is reporting spot on in that they can't -- politically, they're thinking we can't fail on this the because then we go back to our base and they decide not to go out because they're going to be so dispirited.

if kavanaugh passes, then you energize the other side to such a degree, i think you have people standing in line for hours just to vote against this president. >> would there be any up side to the republicans saying, you know what? let's have another investigation, another review, an fbi investigation into this to see -- i mean, obviously, if this woman is coming forward with such serious allegations, what she would be doing this for, one would assume, is that she's concerned that he's a predator. and so if a person is a predator, there is obviously usually especially with a long lifetime after the alleged incident, there would be a pattern. there would be other women been and an fbi investigation would certainly be able to baear thab that out. >> if everybody was confident and it would turn out well, i would say, sure, get an fbi investigation because then you can hold up the paper.

we had six fbi investigations. who asked for seven? we have a seventh fbi investigation. these claims are unsubstantiated by everybody but dr. ford. i mean, that's jeremy, makes a little too much sense to me. but republicans act like you're demanding root canals from everybody on the committee. >> because they see this slipping away. they realize how jeopardized this nomination is. of all the many reasons donald trump won those 77,000 votes in those three states that put them over the top in the electoral college, i think the largest factor there was energizing religious conservatives and people who voted on the court. >> right. >> so this is why he's president. they have to deliver on this. and trump understands that more than anything else. he knows those are his people, as he likes to say. >> and we saw, mika, in that semi focus group in oxford, mississippi, issues, taxes, important, not important, she went through it.

and then she said the supreme court. and two or three of the four trump supporters, without any prompting, didn't say important. they said very important. this is the top issue, the crown jewel. still ahead on "morning joe," manafort, flynn, cohen, gates, who hasn't bob mueller flipped? we'll have the latest reporting on michael cohen's special counsel and what it means for the investigation. but first, let's go the bill carin wes karins with a check on the forecast. >> the northern half of the country, this will be a gorgeous half of the weekend, but we have to get there. first we have to deal with a severe weather threat today. 18 million people at risk from cleveland, to syracuse and rochester, much of the state of ohio, we could the chance for an isolated tornado.

north texas, oklahoma, little rock, we are under flood watches. 3 to 4 inches of rain. it is going to be a soggy friday night and saturday in areas of the deep south. so here is today's forecast. here is all the storms in the middle of the country. what a beautiful day in d.c. today. 81 degrees, partly sunny. that should be a nice lunch outdoors and boston not bad at 72. the weekend forecast shows you that heavy rain in texas, areas of oklahoma and arkansas. the northern plains, the rockies is great, great lakes is fantastic. northeast, a great saturday, fantastic sunday. that rain continues unfortunately for our friends in louisiana, arkansas, and some of that rain will try and slide here into virginia late sunday. saturday looks like the better of the two days. new york city is in for one of the best weekends we've seen if a long time. low humidity, sunny afternoons. today starting off cloudy. my mom's pain from

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abc news reports that donald trump's former fixer, michael cohen, has been talking to the special counsel's office over the course of the last month. he reportedly sat for multiple sessions lasting hours. the network says the interviews have focused on all aspects of trump's dealings with russia, financial, business, and alleged collusion in the 2016 election. abc reports that investigators were interested in whether the president or any of his associates dangled a pardon before cohen. cohen is reportedly working with the state of new york on a separate investigation into the inner workings of the trump family charity and the trump organization. he's a treasure chest. >> that's a shame because the president can't pardon anybody charged in new york. >> my goodness gracious, there's so much to talk about. >> that's where he worked as a decade as an executive vice president and special counsel. both mule ir's office and

cohen's attorney declined to comment. the president's attorney, rudy giuliani responded telling abc news cohen has a history of lying. >> didn't he is cohen was -- >> he was a wonderful fixer. did he lie for the president? that's why he knows deep inside that he's a serial liar because he lied so much for the -- he must. >> rudy said cohen is a good man and cohen is a good man. >> donnie deutsch. >> as of a couple weeks ago, we almost spoke every day in great detail about a lot of things. >> is he talking about mueller? what is the room like? >> all of a sudden, his responses are, hey, we'll speak next week. never said he was talking to mueller, but everything changed.

and my interpretation was clearly -- >> donnie, doesn't that happen to you all the time? >> mueller clearly said to him, son, we were in the adult dining room now. you may have best friends and you may have relatives, but you will be speaking to no one. >> never talk to a guy that wears a gangster suit and an orange tie. >>. joining us now, emily jane fox. has he cut you off? >> i've been in touch with people. >> you can't ask that question. i'm just curious. >> i haven't been ghosted by anyone in michael cohen's corner so far. >> it's just the conversations are very -- it's just changed. >> things in michael cohen's universe have certainly tightened. i reported last friday he had been in talks with robert mueller and it was accepted in

his camp that conversations have started. not only is he talking to robert mueller about things related to the russia investigation, he is talking to another district about the campaign finance payments that he made to women. he is talking to the attorney general about what he knows about the foundation. there is nothing that is off limits to michael. here is why. he has a family and michael has accepted the fact that he is going to prison. so whatever he can do to lessen his prison sentence to get the government to possibly say to a judge in december when he is sentenced, look, this guy was very cooperative. he recommend a lighter sentence we are going to do right now. he also feels like the president did absolutely nothing to protect him. in fact, he did things to the actively hurt him. so he has absolutely no reason, no feeling like i'm going to do anything to protect this man. >> are there any theories why donald trump threw him under the bus? >> who doesn't he throw under the bus?

>> it's illegal logical that you wouldn't bring this man who knows so much, who has had a front row seat to everything that not only the president did in a lot of situations, but his three adult children did, why you wouldn't bring that man if if he was faesing trouble. i think from my sense of things is the president knew that michael cohen had done bad things on his behalf and perhaps on his own behalf, so cut bait was the strategy. >> i would ask him that all the time. he was astounded. so at one other thing on to emily beyond obviously just wanting to, as anybody would, do everything to save his family, right after the helsinki thing, michael said to me, you know, look, beyond this, this has to change. another thing kicked in. the country thing kicked in. as i said, i'm not saying that he's not doing it to protect himself also, but something happened at that moment. something struck him like oh, my god, this guy is in charge now?

and something also shifted. >> what is it about hanging at dawn focussing the mind. >> if you talk to people who worked for trump when he was at the trump organization or even in the white house today, especially in the white house today, there is no sense of loyalty to him whatsoever. they do not feel like they have anything to gain from him and, in fact, they feel like after they leave the white house, they'll be toxic. so this has created the sense that what am i doing this for? so taking one of the very few people, michael cohen, who felt a sense of loyalty to trump and basically discarding him is really just a dumb founding move. he's the one guy -- other than his children, one of the one guy whose felt any loyalty to this man. >> and as you say, emily, speaking of the children, it's not just donald trump who is exposed now because michael cohen is talking to investigators and robert

mueller. it's the children are now in focus because he was in the middle of it all. >> look, michael cohen still lives in the building where jared and ivanka live in new york. this is someone who is so inex trickbly tied and linked to the entire trump family who worked side by side with all three of his adult children. he also has felt in the last couple of months that there has been a concerted effort by don jr., by jared kushner, but rudy giuliani to throw him under the bus, his children, as well. >> i think he's been more loathing towards jr. and jared, particularly junior, because there was this built in affection for the boss for a long time. there's that scorned feeling. but his brow would even fur row more when he would talk about the kids. but to the opening tease, trump has a lot to worry about.

a lot. emily and i have been privy to a lot of the things cohen knows. and boy, oh, boy. still ahead, is the republican party suffering from an identity crisis? this morning, axios is looking at the short and long-term risks for the gop now that it is effectively the trump party. leaving sloths of traditional conservatives with no home. we'll be right back. ves with noe we'll be right back. - [announcer] the typical vacuum head can struggle with large debris and stuck-on dust, so shark invented duoclean, replacing the front wall with a rotating soft brush. while deep cleaning carpets, two brush rolls pick up large particles with ease,

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welcome back to "morning joe." so, alex, it seems to me that jonathan lamiere and i owe an apology to the boston red sox. >> a little bit. >> because we didn't think they were going to even make the wild card. >> you have to stand by your team. >> ended up beating the yankees last night. >> pretty handily. >> pretty good. there's jackie bradley jr. so they went behind, but there's mookie. mookie had four hits last night,

a home run, five rbis. what do you think, mvp? >> i think so. he's close. i he mean, there's so many -- what about trout? there's so many good people. >> rjd. yankees. so you guys have been hurt all year. >> yes, we are. >> but still beat the a's. it's going be the yankees and the red sox. i want no part of that. >> i don't remember vividly, but i think the seattle mariners won 116 games and didn't make it past. >> doesn't matter. >> doesn't matter? >> that's the thing about baseball. it just doesn't matter. the one year the red sox finally win the world series, they go in as a wild card team, not even close to the yankees. you get two hot pitchers at that moment and you'll win any searries. >> that's our problem right now is we pitch about 14 pitchers a game. but more importantly, if you're in new york last night, newer

no you're not going, where do i go? it's the city that never sleeps so you're thinking, do i go to the red sox and the yankees to see the red sox win the american league east for the third year in a row or do i go downtown to a sofi event on women's empowerment starring our own mika brzezinski. mika, this thing rocked. it was like "hamilton" the opening week. there was so much buzz. tell us what happened. >> i think you're overplaying your hand a little bit, but it was amazing. but there was a great crowd of incredible women. the woman you see on the stage with me is libby. they do career counseling. the whole point of the evening and the whole point of the awareness campaign is to teach women to focus on feeling good about focussing on getting that raise. >> so what did you tell women last night, really quickly, how

do you get that raise? >> well, i have a book that is coming out, gosh, in a few days, a rerelease of knowing your value. >> is it available on amazon? >> the event had real synergy because libby and i had a lot to offer the audience in terms of -- >> but you're not telling. >> applies to men and women. >> how do women get that raise? >> don't apologize your way into the room, dig deep, communicate effectively. certainly press reset many, many times as men do because they have no memory and keep going back. >> i'm sorry, what was number two? >> we feel guilty about asking for money for ourselves. >> you apologize. >> we apologize for it. actually, this is what you should be doing all the time. >> another thing in your book was do your research and know your value. that's one big take away i had. >> it was fun and empowering because we were able to give the audience a lot of tips and strategies that they can put in place today. >> if i want that book, where do i go, how do i go, where is it

available? >> amazon, your independent book sellers, barnes & noble. >> up next -- >> one of the most important things that you constantly talk about women have to make sure that when they go in and ask for the raise, they don't apologize, but it's not personal. >> no. >> hey, here is the deal. i deserve this raise. you know, it's not about -- >> you really spent the whole evening turning around the way most women think about approaching these issues. we tend to take it all very personally, especially when we get a no. men don't. they don't remember anything. >> i don't remember, where do i get that book, joe? you see, he doesn't remember. >> no, we had a great time and my thanks to libby leffler and everybody at sofy. >> alex, who do you think the mvp is? >> oh, yeah, i have to revise my answer. it's not betts, it's not martinez, not trout, it's mika. >> you nailed it, alex. you live for another day. >> he knows his value.

up next, the growing identity crisis. it's one of the lead stories on axios this morning. we'll break it down next. axios this morning we'll break it down next

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joining us now, heidi prisbella and nickace johnston. nick, this morning, axios is out with a new report looking at the gop's identity crisis and the risk that crisis poses to the party. tell us about it. >> our one big thing this morning is the gop identity crisis. it is now officially the party of trump. and i think it's very interesting to look at what that means electorally when traditional -- i mean, president trump's republicanism is different than traditional republicanism. joe, i don't have to tell you that at all. what are the long termg effects of that? two major republican donors, the biggest donor in new england, the richest man in ohio public ly denounced the party

and said they're leaving. these changes on the margins can have a big impact. >> rick, you were there as it was happening in ted cruz's campaign. cruz, traditional conservative, traditional by 21st century standards, and what used to work in republican primaries just stopped working one day, talking about praising planned parenthood in a south carolina debate. >> it was remarkable, joe. i mean, i felt like i spent the whole primary season warning people of what would happen and my basic argument was that trump has no underlying ideology, he's all about himself. that is born out, that is true. in virginia where i live, we don't have party registration. so even if we did have party registration, i'd have to have a -- i'd face a real challenge of whether i should go and unenroll from the party. there's no way for me to do

that. but i'll tell you, i am notionally republican, barely hanging on. this is not a party i recognize. it does things i don't believe in. and it's hard when you don't feel like you have a place to go. it was at the convention, and while i was out, you know, everybody drank some sort of potion kool-aid. everybody is so different, i haven't changed. >> what joe walsh quote do you have on this one >> that's a good one. so, gene, i guess so much, though, about the republican party's future will be determined by what happens in this mid-term election. listen, if the republicans hold on, all the more power to trump, the base will say. a lot of the donors will say. if it's a massive landslide for democrats, obviously, that changes the dynamics a bit.

>> it sure does. right now, as we speak, the republican party is a mess. it's an ideological mess. it's been taken over by this alien force of trump and trumpism. but at the same time it's a extraordinarily successful mess. it holds all power. presidency, both houses of congress, most state houses. so the rulers of the republican party's collapse i think are greatly overstated. however, it could happen and it could happen fast. and the next couple of elections are going to be probably subsidize. does this mess of a republican party that has no northstar at this point except donald trump, does it fall apart or does it survive in this sort of weird state that it's in now, and we

will see, we'll get a big clue in november. >> heidi, for republicans hearing the press and democrats talking about how the sky is about to fall on them, you can't fault republicans for calling us chicken little because if you look at all the stories in 2016 that talked about which party had an identity crisis, which party was facing imminent collapse, which party was splitting at the seams because of donald trump it was the republican party and then we woke up the morning after the election and republican power was at its high watermark since the 1920s. >> that's right. that was at the national level. here's the important distinction that i think, you know, in reading nick's report which was interesting is that we're now testing a question of whether this is replicable at the state left. in states like florida, candidates like ron desantis hugging trump as tightly as they

can in the primary and then suffering for it in the general election. the latest polling there shows him down six points over andrew gillun who by all means a progressive democrat here in a purple swing state. so what we're seeing here is that in this time span that, yes, trump has taken over the party, taken over the country, at the same time there are big shifts going on under the surface in terms of voters on the republican side dropping their identification of the republican party, driven by women, becoming independents which is by and far large percentage of the voting public. who are they identifying with. early indications what we're seeing in these special elections is that they are voting democratic even though they are identifying as independents. >> susan. >> one thing we talked about at the top of the hour was kavanaugh's rating and among

seniors. which is interesting. that polling is a reflex of the president. it seems to be that in addition to women the last group of people republicans can lose is seniors. i guess i'm also asking nick how does losing seniors, losing women, that's the fracture in the party but also just going back to the money side for thing. is it also affecting not just big donors but mid-level donors. are republicans not relating and wanting to give money to trump? >> that's a great trump. we don't know yet. these are high-profile defections right now. heidi is dead on. how does that play out in the mid-term vote? when we see this group of traditional republicans who are for free trade, pro immigration with george bush where do they go? do they stay home, sit on their

hands? >> the party has changed if you look at the polling what's fascinating how the average republican voters views on issues that used to be unquestionably republican, how are you attitude is towards -- what your attitude is towards russia. how you feel about free trade. voters have moved towards trump. >> how do you feel about putin >> exactly. >> or the fbi. >> it's now the republican party. oh, my god we spent 30 years attacking democrats for being anti-law enforcement. we spent 30 years. i mean, gene, i would be on the campaign trail bitching and moaning about the church commission. i didn't know what they did but they were against the intel community. they ripped the intel community. now it's the republicans who are the pot smoking left wing hippies hanging out in haight

asbury. >> the intel community and the fbi. a menace to society. >> last night at trump's ally he said how did the justice department doing and the crowd booed. >> we're not laughing about fact this man is trying to destroy america's intel community. >> thank you. >> it's the hypocrisy of the republican party that was so, i would like to use a certain word right now but i won't, so bleeping self-righteous how the democrats were savaging the intel community, the fbi. now they are doing it gleefully attacking the fbi and attacking the justice department is a punch line in political speeches for these losers. i call them losers. >> for me looking at the polling data, in the span of one weekend fbi rating where republicans fall 25, 26 points when the

president started attacking them. >> nick, heidi, rick, eugene, thank you all for being on the show. >> you used to love the press. wait a second. coming up it turns out the president's tax overhaul may not be a good talking point for republicans on the campaign trail. what can they talk about? wheel explain. but brett kavanaugh's accuser -- >> they attacked law enforcement officers to keep their families safe. they attack cia officers who, my god, keep us safe. >> all right. brett kavanaugh's accuser lay out the terms under which she will testify and it won't be monday. "morning joe" is coming right back. [ [ cheers and applause ] >> how is our justice department doing? r justice department doing? . until i held her. i found my tresiba® reason. now i'm doing more to lower my a1c.

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ask your gastroenterologist about entyvio®. entyvio®. relief and remission within reach. in 2016, the american people voted to reject this corrupt globalism. hey, i'm the president of the united states. i'm not the president of the globe. >> okay. that was president trump last night in vegas, just days before he meets with world leaders at the united nations in new york. welcome back to "morning joe". it is friday, september 21st.

donny deutsch is still with us along with susan. "new york times" jeremy peters is with us as well and joining the conversation editor-at-large of the weekly standard, bill krystol and peter baker and lisa lair who authors the "new york times" newsletter. it's great to have you all on board this morning. we've been having a crackling conversation. >> bill, let me ask you, was it your father who said, i think i just read this this past week was it your father who said to robert bork that civilization is coming to the end, he said yes, it is, but it's going to take a little while so we can still enjoy ourselves. >> there's different verges of the story. >> what's the story? >> it's accelerated.

>> it's not accelerating. this is going to be a revival, a restoration. what did your father say exactly? >> what have you been drinking this morning? i actually agree with you, honestly. i'm not as pessimistic as everyone else. >> i told a couple of students a couple of nights ago, i said at the end of this, this is going to be a confirmation of the greatness of madisonian democracy that institutions will hold, people will stand up at the right time and we'll look back and say, we passed the test. federal judges. check. the intel community, check. we'll go down the list. yes, i even believe congress, check, the american voters, check. they stood up and they did their duty when they saw constitutional norms being breached. >> as my father and many generations of jewish say, from

your lips to god's hears. as he used to say. someone said something wishful that he didn't quite think was going to happen but could happen. i agree with that. i've been fairly optimistic. institutions have held even during this unpleasant current moment in terms of kavanaugh and these accusations. if we can have -- is it beyond hope we can have a dignified hearing next week in which each testify or ask questions in a respectful way in which people can look into what other evidence there is and people can make a reasonable judgment about whether there is or isn't reason to disqualify kavanaugh on these grounds? i think you could imagine a decent situation. now you're shaking your head. i don't know. i'm hopeful. why is it that hard? >> why is it that hard? why can't people sit down and talk to each other and i'm not

even being -- i'm not being polyannish about this. this is how it worked for 215 years. this is how it worked. peter baker, with not only ronald reagan and tip o'neill, but even with bill clinton and newt gingrich, in the middle of impeachment both men now tell stories of how they continued to talk about the issues. and on the day of impeachment they were on the phone talking about how they were going to handle the growing threat from saddam hussein. >> well that's absolutely right. i do think that we go through swings in history, to your point, that this is a country that has survived many, many worse moments than this. as divisive as it, as ugly as it feels these days, you know we've been worse. i do think that we ought to step back, take a breath every once in a while and recognize that democracy is a messy thing but

there's a reason why it's messy. they designed the system this way. they design the system built for conflict and that conflict at least in theory supposed to take us in the right direction over to longer term. maybe not every single day. we'll see. i'm not so sure about next week. >> i was going to say. >> the founders did say also even though the institutions are supposed to check and balance each other, you do need some basic standards of virtue and responsibility in the citizenry and our elected kpishls. if you read the federalist papers, there's an appeal we need to have senators, congressmen, presidents who are a cut above of the average and have a sense of responsibility. >> that may be lacking right now. peter baker that takes us to next week. what's it looking like? >> look, maybe we'll have an event next week and it will be

thoughtful and eye-opening and illuminating or a complete mess. seems to be we're heading towards some sort of a hearing where we'll put these allegations on center stage, apparently dr. christine blasey ford wants the senators to question her not special counsel, not a lawyer who might be more judicious in the way the questioning is approached. that seemed to suggest it's not anybody's interest on the republican or democratic side to get out of hand and so each side is faced with this incredible difficult challenge how to approach this question. 000 ask questions that actually probe for truth without looking like you're putting a victim on trial or being unfair to judge kavanaugh. not an easy thing. >> by the way, let's just talk about that request that you have senators asking you questions

and not a legal counsel who is designed to be put in that place to be more respectful so the republican senators -- that seems like an awful strange request from ford's attorneys. >> hard to have an honest conversation about this, it really is. >> an honest conversation. >> it seems to me that if you are searching for the truth, you would want the best person available to conduct that interview, or to conduct the questioning. and i think -- i mean given what we've seen could it be kind of traumaticizing to be interviewed by ten men about something like this. it does seem on its face strange. but this story, it's changing every day. i'm very concerned about making any comments about any development because then two more things come out. go ahead, susan. >> because what you said about having a hard conversation, it's gotten to the point that you

can't say -- i'll get killed for saying it -- there's a possibility that this didn't happen. sometimes you have to go there and if we're talking about a trial, we're talking about how somebody is going to be questioned, that presumes that something may or may not have happened and we have to look at it, at two sides because we don't have that civilized conversation. we know it won't be a civilized hearing because we're so separated right now. but if we can't allow for the possibility -- i mean frankly what's the point. >> and speaking about the lack of civility, we talked about this on the show for a couple of days it's so deeply offensive. an attempted rapist, what's offensive republicans coming on the air saying this woman is crazy and it never happened. we don't know. even in the age of trump, a conservative guy who has been an

institution of sorts in washington, d.c., we all know, i don't want to say his name because what he did was so disgusting. he actually polled some po ee e guy out of a yearbook and tried to basically use this poor guy who is a private citizen like fed him to the lion's den. it wasn't kavanaugh, it was a classmate of kavanaugh. that's where the party had to be. if you look at google maps. i mean that's about -- i mean that's low even in the image of trump. >> susan, let me ask you a question, and it puts you in a tough spot. with knowing what she's going through, give me an argument why she would come forward if it wasn't true. to put herself -- the thing i keep going back to where i believe it's true, i can see another reason, i can see somebody that would put

themselves through that, that six years ago would have notes from a therapy session, would say i want more investigation. so give me the argument of why it wouldn't -- >> i'm not going to do that because you're asking me to say that she's not telling the truth, which if i give the argument we don't know what happened, if we can't allow for the possibility that it didn't happen i can't automatically close the door and say it did. so, i won't go there on that conversation. but the point is that, like you said, we know notes from 12 years ago. we also don't know where or when. there's a lot of things to discuss that you can only have if you're willing to be honest and civil about it. and based on that question, donnie, you're basically saying to me we shouldn't have hearing. it should be closed. >> but a lot of people are saying they think kavanaugh is guilty. no such thing as due process. there's no such thing as due

process. according to these people they say he's an alleged rapist and it's just like the republicans that i see on twitter, people that have been my friends who are so deeply offensive, mika, that they automatically assume that dr. ford is lying. >> automatically assume that there must be something wrong with her. they don't know. >> i wonder if they should be calling for an fbi investigation at this point because it's out of control. lisa let's bring in your reporting. you're looking at private school, prep school behavior back in the day. you interviewed catherine kendall one of the first accusers against harvey weinstein. the difference there is that there were many more accusers after. right? >> right. of course. >> and so first tell us about your reporting there. >> well, you know, we just want to get a sense of what this

might be like for dr. christine blasey ford. she's not speaking to the press. we decided to talk to other people who had gone through putting their story out there and seeing how it becomes transformed in the media. look what we found is this is, it's important to be this is a person at the center of all of this. whether she was the or not but particularly if she was the at the end of this her life will be unrecognizable. in some ways it already is. she's had death threats. she's moved out of her house. whether it's true or not she's taking some serious risk with her own personal life and the other thing we've read about that i think is important to remember is this is an issue that has proved to be deeply resonate amongst women across the country particularly women voters. i figured when this started happening everyone would go to their corners. republicans would stand by kavanaugh, democrats would be against him. we've seen that. the place where we haven't seen that is in women voters.

in the polling they have turned against kavanaugh in pretty notable numbers. you saw that in the nbc poll. ane an anectdotally women have been coming in the office stopping in saying now can i help. that's one from one part of the country. depending how it plays out it really could have implications in the mid-term elections. >> i'll turn the question back to your first statement and that was that in your reporting you're saying there's a person at the center of this and you're looking at how her life has changed. i guess some might say well there's also another person at the center of this and that's brett kavanaugh whose life has completely changed. by the way i'm not a fan, i don't think he should be confirmed. but isn't that something -- will

you be looking at that next? >> of course. that's a really important point too and there's some reporting in the journal yesterday i believe that his wife has gotten death threats and obviously has had a major transformational -- yeah, impact on his life as well. so, but at the end of this, you know, he may end up being a supreme court justice. i think there are also questions about how this will change the institution, kind of jumping back to what, you know, you guys were talking about at the beginning of the show. it's hard to see -- his approval ratings are now under water. democrats are talk about investigating him even if he's confirmed, if they win control of congress. so i think this could have a real impact on how and maybe already has how americans view the supreme court. and that feels like a pretty concerning thing for our democracy as well. so i think that's important. i would think that's an important thing for members of congress to keep in mind that what the impact of this spl

politicalization on how americans view the court and how americans look at their democracy. >> exactly. following up on that great point, jeremy, who would want to put their family through something like this in the future? i mean, again, looking at both sides. you can talk about dr. ford and her children. talk about brett kavanaugh and i had children. there's so many people i talked to when i say you need to get involved, we need good people involved. they say well, you know, i would be fine with it. but i'm not going to put my spouse, i'm not going to put my kids through it. same thing with me. really at that fter 25 years i care what people say about me but it impacts my kids. >> right. there are two people at the center of this, absolutely but there's also one overriding important thing that i think we need to address here and that this is a lifetime appointment

that will shift the ideological balance of the supreme court for a generation and that's why you're seeing a zero sum no holds barred campaign from both sides to either stop this or ram this through. let's not be naive about that. the future of roe v wade is at stake. >> that's a terrible thing to say in this respect. presumably mrs. ford is telling the truth or not. she's not doing this because the future of the supreme court is at stake. >> i'm not saying she's doing that. >> i think you have to distinguish the policy fight which is fierce and legitimate from the personal charge needs to be fully aired and people need to have the chance to make the accusation and defend themselves against the accusation. i object to conflating these things together. it's wrong to say there's a huge amount at the stake here. future of judicial decisions is here. >> that's up for consideration.

>> do you believe it's a consideration? >> i'm not saying that at all. but let's not have this argument in a vacuum. >> it is a separate issue. >> it's important because, susan, it explains why so many people i've known for so long are saying things that are so deeply offensive on twitter right now. calling dr. ford a fabulist. other friends are going on cable tv and convicting brett kavanaugh of being an attempted rapist. on both sides. to jeremy's point it doesn't explain perhaps what dr. ford is doing but it does explain the ugliness. in fact, we have to rise above this and show more grace, or as lisa said, good people are going to stop coming forward and offering their service to america. >> to that point let's not

forget, this woman wanted to stay anonymous. she was outed by democrats because of the very reason a bigger issue in play. because of the way that, you know, having a conservative on the supreme court. this was their hail mary pass. then everything else happened. there's no -- if you can't -- that's part of the essential part of this argument. this was a political play. and it all is. now this woman is caught up with it, judge kavanaugh is and i agree with you, joe, who would want to go into this? how will we have good justice or good elected officials if they are going to be treat this way. >> donnie, i know you want to talk but like we said yesterday this is the second time in 25 years that a woman who feels like she's been sexually harassed, believes she has been sexually harassed has evidence that she wants to bring forward to that she's been sexually harassed has gone to the

democratic judiciary committee, has said i want to remain anonymous and then they outed her. would any of us -- whether we believed her or not and at the time more people believed clarence thomas in some polls i've seen would any of us have wanted to carry the burden that anita hill that's carried over the past quarter century? >> no. >> is anybody going to want to carry the burden that dr. ford is going to carry for the next quarter century? because they were outed for political reasons. >> whether she was outed -- >> she was. >> okay. >> she said i want to remain anonymous. by the way the democrats -- let me finish. this important for americans to remember. they held the hearings. they didn't turn out the way the democrats wanted them to turn out. kavanaugh was cruising towards a vote where he was going be on the court. and at that point they then outed her and dianne feinstein

said i have a letter, i can tell you who it's from but it's so serious against brett kavanaugh we're taking it to the fbi. >> but where we are now, correct, where we are now and this is still a function of the president that we elect sad moment in time where women -- this is not about dr. ford any more. this is, i believe, every woman, fail or not fail, any woman and it's pretty much every woman that has ever been felt that they have been victimized, that they have been preyed upon, this is a moment in time where fair or unfair to judge kavanaugh, whether this happened or not, this is a moment in time where women are just, i believe, saying enough is enough. >> how can you say fair or unfair? >> i'm just seeing what's going on. >> you can be a sociologist. >> it's bigger than this.

it's a reaction to who we elected two years ago. it's a reaction to harvey weinstein. fair or undare -- >> that's fair as a matter of analysis. the whole point of a decent liberal democracy is society has the rule of law and due process. you take each case on its own and deal with it fairly. >> it just doesn't. >> but the whole point of the way trials work is to try to say wait a second there could be many, many cases where things have happened that are terrible and maybe we should change the laws but in the meantime we need to treat these individuals fairly. >> peter baker, your not in the dark shadow studio again, are you >> no. >> so, peter, it is important to remember too, and you know i even said to it this point, but, you know, i supported roberts.

i supported alito. i supported gorsuch. kavanaugh makes me very uncomfortable. i think he was selected because of a 2009 article that he wrote, law review article that he wrote where he said a president can't be indicted. so i'm very concerned about the expansive powers he wants to give presidents. and, of course, that doesn't matter to anybody except for the fact that now i'm going say elections do have consequences. and if donald trump gets elected president of the united states in the electoral college then he gets to pick who is on the court, right? >> well, this is one of the reasons why this is so polarizing because the democrats agree with you, except that they are thinking about merritt garland. they are thinking about 2016 president obama who was a duly elected president didn't get to put his choice on the supreme court. there's a lot of raw feelings. when you hear republicans saying democrats are unfair, how can they abuse the process this way,

democrats are saying wait a second what about merritt garland. you'll continue to have this kind of, you know, baggage that's going haunt this process now going forward. remember one thing, the anita hill-clarence thomas process which we keep referring to took a year before the 1992 elections. this is happening in the teeth of the campaign six weeks away. we haven't seen a situation like this. this will change in a possibly dramatic way, the conversation that we're having as people go to the polls. early voting starts i think today or at least the next couple of days. people will vote on this issue. could it change the way people tart to think about things. both parties see a lot at stake. both parties are very nervous. nobody can say how that will affect that. it's a big, big thing. >> what a great point by peter. democrats had a duly elected

president who put, my gosh, a really qualified centrist jurist forward to be on the supreme court. republicans held up the nomination for 293 days. and i can tell you as a conservative, the baggage of the bork nomination and ted kennedy's speech that stayed with me for 20 years. can't even imagine how long -- i don't call it a travesty that merritt garland had to endure, how long that will stay with democrats. >> right. and i think that's a really excellent point and what you see is this slow unraveling of norms, how we handle supreme court nominations, how we talk abouter to party that has gotten to us this point where the parties feel like it's no prisoners, everything is at stake. of course as jeremy pointed out earlier there's a lot at stake. this would change the composition of the court for a long time. but it still feels there should be a way to conduct this process

with some respect for the other side and that's really not what we're seeing and honestly i'm not sure that's what voters want. feels like voters are in a take no prisoners kind of mood and it's hard to imagine this does everything but provide a big shot adrenaline into electorate. how does it shake us? more in the democrats favor or republicans favor? with the polling with other things we're seeing this may be favoring democrats. >> by the bill krystol is running for president, maybe he'll bring us back again. bill, will you? >> not me but anyone other than trump would help. i would say that. once we get past this 2020, a civilized campaign between a nontrump republican and a reasonable democrat is something to hope for. >> from your lips -- >> thank you all very much.

fascinating conversation. still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> by the way, lisa, what's the podcast again in >> it's a newsletter. sign up at "new york times".com/onpolitics. we're a daily. in the morning you'll get all the coverage from the "times" and in the afternoon we'll make sense of it. >> i'm a detail guy, you know. >> very good. >> newsletter. >> still ahead on "morning joe" from serving in the military to serving on capitol hill, more and more veterans are eyeing politics. what it means for actually getting things done in washington. plus, some in the doj aren't fans of the president declassifying sensitive information. american allies parental aren't fans of it either. why the president is now fielding calls from overseas on the issue. that's next on "morning joe". mo" how can you spot ambition? is it written on our faces? or something woven into the dna of the doers,

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>> last night -- it's just not even -- can we just take this seriously. like you don't have any situational awareness. >> of what >> like social codes and stuff. >> you know what, mika, it's funny you say that because a lot of people who see you on social occasions would say it's you. who is the only one who is saying you can't say that. >> yes. >> i know that's a shock to you all. >> we're on the air. >> when we're in public it's usually the opposite. are we on tv? am i supposed to act differently because the red light is on. >> yes. no contact. okay. so last night -- stop. stop. don't do that. all right last night president trump said foreign allies are reaching out to about his toward declassify documents in the

russia probe, including sensitive portions of a fisa warrant. >> you have now said declassify. how soon will that be coming. >> we're moving alone. we're dealing with foreign countries that do have a problem. i must tell you. i got called today from two very good allies saying please can we talk? so it's not as simple as all that. and we do have to respect their wishes. but it will all come out. >> so it's actually -- let me say it's good to hear him say that. i get calls from foreign leaders. they have concerns, so we need to slow this down a little. >> there's been a few times recently where you're thinking he's listening to his people who are there. this led former cia and nsa director to conclude that allies are seeking to protect their own country's intelligence from being exposed. quote this suggests that the president intends that

third-party information in the fisa application should be released. there is no bottom. with 46 days until the mid-term elections many voters have begun to notice the scores of congressional candidates who are young, veterans of iraq and afghanistan. "the washington post" david ignatius said this movement may be the most positive trend on the political horizon. >> who is that young man. >> someone you know. >> one veteran who served four turs as a marine officer in iraq has raised millions for this effort with his serve america pact, seth mullton of massachusetts joins us now. also one of those iraq war veterans running for office retire air force intelligence officer and democratic candidate for u.s. congress in the 23rd district of the state of texas, gina ortiz jones. >> seth, i looked very quickly

at congress because somebody served in war doesn't make them a republican or a democrat, a liberal or a conservative. but still it's so important to have people who have served to understand what the men and women in the armed force are going through every day. >> one of our most sacred responsibilities as a congress to decide when we send our young men and twoem war. more than that people who had to put their lives on the country know a little bit about public service and know about doing the right thing for the country rather than your political bosses in washington or your party. >> it does. and, you know, i think beyond insight for what our veterans experienced in the field and then back at home, gina, i wonder what else you think, you bring to the table if you can fix washington if it's broken. >> just to the last point that was discussed we also know the importance of our partners and allies whether in iraq or africa or working on the economic and

national security issues. all of that is shaped by our partners and our allies given the kind of world we live in. i also having worked in national security for 14 years, i know you don't have true national security if you don't have a strong middle class. that's why yes i'm the veteran running in this case but i'm talking about health care, i'm talking about the need for strong immigration policy and the need to invest what really makes us strong which is smart and healthy kids. >> you're running against will hurd who has a good deal of experience as well. what different yapts you and how is the campaign going? >> i think it's going very well. what different yapts us is the lessons we took from serving on our country. i won't be writing op-eds. i'll be writing legislation. you can't be outraged on cnn and complicit in congress. that's now how this works. >> by the way, we'll get will on at some point.

we offered many times. seth we started reading stories six, seven years ago of young men and women in iraq in the midst of the most chaotic times where you would have somebody who is 24, 25 years old put in charge of running a town. get the water running. get the sewer up. get the lights back on. and at the time the articles were suggesting that these officers would be hot commodities in business because they've -- like army do more before, you know, 7:00 whatever the expression is. they are 25, 26, 27-year-olds who did more before they turned 30 than a lot of people do in their entire lifetime. >> you actually learn leadership. it's a tremendous amount of responsibility to have to take on the safety and well being of a platoon, of young men and

women, or an entire iraqi town. and that level of leadership experience, i don't think you get almost anywhere else in the world than when you're put in a position like that in iraq. or afghanistan. and the other thing that veterans bring is courage. people ask me all the time, seth, why is congress so stupid. how can congress not believe in climate change or whatever. my observation after being there for three years most of my colleagues are pretty smart. a few exceptions. what's lacking in washington isn't intelligence, it's courage. it's just the willingness to do what's right, to stay with what's right, take tough vote even though it might hurt your re-election process. >> donnie everybody is talking about john mccain how courageous he was. here's a man who is a prisoner of war and remained prisoner of war even though he was being beaten and tortured and brutalized. but he made that choice because he wasn't going to go home

without his band of brothers. he came to washington. suddenly those courageous decisions don't seem that tough to make. >> two shot these. thank you to both for you service. this is a road map for the democrats. you put a veteran -- the one thing democrats have always been missing is that strength, that testosterone, i don't mean that in the gender point ever view. once you put a veteran, imagine any veteran standing on stage opposite donald trump, just right off the bat, the level of courage, the level of character would add so much -- it was interesting a couple of weeks ago i was with dnc guys run veterans. you can't gul the level of courage and character. everything else is b.s. versus what you guys have done. everything else falls from that. just from a pure branding point of view, just give me a veteran every single time. so first thank you.

this is the formula for democrats. >> so now we'll try something different. we'll go susan and she will ask you questions. >> i do agree with your point except it's okay for democrats and republicans. >> i have amazing relationships with veterans. >> kind of leading to my question, i heard many times when you're serving you don't look to your left and right and wonder who is a republican, an independent, a liberal, a conservative. but there is politics involved when you're elected to congress and i guess i kind of put this question to both of you. how do you see democratic leadership in the house right now sean it something that needs to change with the changing of elected officials like yourself or what you hope to be? >> i think it is time for a new generation of leadership. not just in washington in general, not just kicking the republicans out and bringing

some balance back but in our own party. we got to look ourselves in the mirror as democrats and recognize we're in the worst electoral position since the 1920s. in state legislatures across the country where we lost 1,000 seats. you can't say we have the worst president ever and then not look at us and say why are we not winning. this new generation of leaders a lot of veterans a lot of great public servants running in these races and extraordinary number amount of women who are standing up to run on the democratic side. democratic women standing up to run, it's incredible. the best recruiter we have out there is our commander-in-chief. >> gina, to close beyond trump what's the message of your campaign? >> look who is going to fight for you. who has your best interest at heart, whether it's on health care, the person i'm running against voted eight times against that. we're pushing forward make sure that everybody has the

opportunity, same opportunities that allowed me to go from reduced lunch to executive office of president. that only happened because my country invested in me. that requires a strong middle class. the question of party leadership doesn't come up. what does come up will you fight for me because my kid has a pre-existing condition. >> you had quite an episode up in your district last week, week before, a lot of houses spontaneous lly had a lot of fires. i understand columbia gas did a terrible job, didn't respond and if it weren't for the first responders that more people could have died out there. what's happening with this gas company, and are you getting to the bottom of that? >> we're going to hold them accountable. our first priority is to get people back in their homes. a lot of people are back in their homes but looking at no gas service, no hot water, no

heat for the next five or six weeks. after that we'll hold this company responsible. it took them five hours to even announce there was a problem let alone to tell people to evacuate or how to be safe in your homes. when you go to sleep in afghanistan at night you recognize my house might blow up. you shouldn't go to sleep in massachusetts and worry about your house blowing up before the morning. >> thank you both so much. good luck to you. coming up -- >> and our invitation to will hurd goes out. >> coming up just this month robert mueller has secured cooperation from paul manafort. he signalled he's obtained all the information he needs from michael flynn and now there's reporting mueller has met with michael cohen several times. that's straight ahead on "morning joe". ng joe".

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obviously based on the murdochs, but also different enough that it's shakespearean. final episode left my jaw open. >> during the break we need billions and "homeland" back. >> now to move on. addiction knows no political party. politicians understand this. what they are doing to battle an american epidemic. that is next on "morning joe". o.

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the ecigarettes for teens the fda calling it a dangerous epidemic. >> we are seeing youth path to addiction must end. >> reporter: the agency sending out warning letters to retailers, giving an ultimatum to the popular jewel and four other manufacturers. they have 60 days to show they can keep their nicotine products under the age of underage users or face a possible ban an all flavored ecigarettes, especially appealing to the estimated 2 million regular users in middle and high school. >> that is so disturbing. that was nbc's rehema ellis reporting on the popularity of ecigarette use among teens. joining us now, leading spine

surgeon dr. dave campbell. good to have you on the show this morning, dr. dave. >> good morning, mika. >> ecigarettes seems so unbelievable -- they are also not easily hidden. because they don't have any smell, correct? >> well, they look like usb drives, like thumb drives, so kids and adults can look like they're just accessing their computer. >> so what are the main dangers that parents sister to worry about? >> in the short term, none. in the long term, it is that ecigarettes contain nicotine an teenagers are particularly sensitive to nicotine addiction. it appears that that will increase the number of adults that transition to using combustible tobacco, which is horrible. so the whole rub here is that for adults using ecigarettes, it's a nice tool to allow them

to use less combustible tobacco. it's safer. for kids, it's terrible. balls it allows them to transition into nicotine adistricts and then move into using cigarettes. 2,300 kids will start using cigarettes today. >> wow! >> wow! >> and every day thereafter. >> that's onbelievable. susan. >> i know i'm kind of conflating things. isn't it hard when you are trying to talk to kids about ecigarettes and the dangers at the same where we see so many states around the country legalizing marijuana and trying to kind of justify both things at the same time? that these ecigarettes are bad for you, at the same time we're legalizing marijuana? i know they're different issues, but i think psychologically, there are some kids say, hey, at least i'm not snow covering pot? >> mm-hmm? >> yeah. >> you know i think it's actually three issues, but you hit on an important one. all of these issues are related to drugs that cause harm.

so for teenagers using vaping devices and nicotine, if that leads them to smoke cigarettes, that causes harm. marijuana laws are not legal, not meant to include minors. so all the marijuana laws are intended to keep people i think it's under 21, maybe under 18. then we have the issue that we're going to talk about which are opoised and all of these issues represent the government trying to allow safety in the face of harmful drugs. >> jeremy peters. . >> yes, i want you to connect this to me in the opioid cries. we have a proliferation of the prescription drugs. you don't need a prescription to get this, can you walk up to the counter at the drug store the gas station and buy it. so as a part of the broader ep dem take we have with addiction in this country. are teens, is the concern that teens who get started on this

will be then much more vulnerable to addiction further on down the road? >> they are all three connected and they're connected through the addictive nature of drugs. whether it's nicotine, whether it's cannabis, thc or whether it is opoised and other substances. so they're all connected and i think we have to have particular concern for teenagers in young people, because their brains are not fully developed and they seem to be more prone to problems from addiction and they certainly can have long-term, cognitive and neurodevelopmental problems because their brains haven't developed neuronice logically until they're in their young 20s. so they are all connected. >> all right. dr. dave campbell, as always, thank you so much for being with us. and dave also the author of t "the teen formula.

you ought to check it out. still aheadful earlier this week the president said he supported laying brett kavanaugh's confirmation hearing, now it appears he may have changed his mind, plus the conditions kavanaugh's accuser is setting before she agrees to testify be every the judiciary committee. ""morning joe" '80s is coming right back. '80s is coming right back testify be every the committee. ""morning joe" '80s is coming right back. before she agrees to every the judiciary committee. ""morning joe" '80s is coming right back. ing joe" '80s is com right back - [narrator] the typical vacuum head has its limitations,

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i want to give a victory speech. i want to give a victory speech on the evening of election day which is coming up very quickly. we're not going to let people undo the incredible work we've ever done. you will never do that they've said that about everything. you will never get that, will you not get elected. ladies and gentlemen the winner is donald trump. oh. remember the tears, right, right? oh. >> actually it was ah, it was him, it was actually melania is crying. >> that's actually the inside story. >> melania was crying after they won. they didn't expect to win. he was in a state of shock. >> yes. >> he was like, wait, i won't be

able start my own brightbartini network? i have to do this gig? >> random stuff from the president last night. welcome to "morning joe" donny is with us. >> he cries himself to sleep. >> i dpotd my wogot my whoopi. >> jeremy peters is with us, republican strategist and political contributor rick tyler and pulitzer associate editor of msnbc political analyst. eugene robinson wi is with us. a couple quick questions for you as a republican communication guru. how are the republicans doing right now in this kavanaugh fight? >> not particularly well, joe, i

think the tide. here's the problem this whole process is not designed to get at the truth. enough to have you this lawyer katz who is representing blasey. they're putting all these conditions on the hearing. i think this is maybe backfireing on the republicans or not the republicans a little bit. on the democrats. >> and donny, you are a pr guy the last thing. if you are running pr for the republicans that you want is to have dr. ford testifying on the committee. so do more pre conditions they set down the more you are going, thank you, thank you, now, if you can make it on a rocketship to mars. thank you. make this as impossible as you can for us. it seems to me at some point the democrats have to step in and say, listen, we need your client up there.

>> yeah. >> what republicans don't understand. and she will get up there. i don't know if any of these republicans have any wives or daughters or sisters or friends that in anyway have gone through an assault. but when you listen to a woman talk. >> right. >> about what she's gone through. they remember what the breath smells like, everything about it. their eyes well up in tears. do they not understand what will happen when this woman gets up there? of course they do. which is why they don't want them to do it. >> they don't want her to get up there. maybe they're trying to get a legal counsel to ask questions. i'm sure they're thinking hopefully to find a woman. you can get a legal counsel, now ford is saying you will not do that. >> every day this goes on and another condition is brought is up another horrible day for the republicans. and we saw a lot of frustration. i saw it interesting, susan collins stepped up and said you are moving the goal coast on us

a little bit and pushed back saying you know what, we can't keep jumping through hoops for you. she had that conversation with democrats the democrats are in a little bit of a tough find here about how they come. but it is horrible for republicans. the fact that they have to go to an outside counsel because they need to have a woman, they don't need outside counsel, they need a woman to ask questions. >> right. >> this is going to be disaster for republicans. yet they still probably need to try and force this through. if they don't get this done by next thursday, it's off the table and that's going to even become more after ocampaign. >> my thing is if they fight woman, litigator to cross examinationer. that's more preferable to having orrin hatch going hey, lady, i think are you a little mixed up in your head. >> those men don't keep their mouth shut anyway, we heard reports about them. they have comments here and

there. they don't nknow how to handle themselves. >> why don't we talk about that in the news. >> the supreme court nominee brett kavanaugh has fallen since he has been accused of committing sexual assault in high school. 38% of voters now say that they oppose his confirmation up nine points since last month when 29% were opposed. back if july, 26% were against kavanaugh's confirmation. this is the first time in the nbc news wall street poll dating back to roberts' nomination in 2005, that a supreme court nominee has been under water on this confirmation question, increased opposition to kavanaugh has come in particular from women over 50 who were plus 3 on kavanaugh's confirmation in august and are minus 7 now. drop of ten points suburban

women, independents plus 15 last month are negative 16 now. a 31 point drop. >> boy, that's a turn around. >> seniors plus 9 in august and negative 10 now. >> gene robinson, that poll and a quarter won't buy you a cup of coffee at a starbucks on capitol hill, but it does point to the bigger -- as far as outcome, kavanaugh, none of the senators will be looking at those poll numbers, but people who are running, republicans running in the suburban districts of hillary clinton one and that republicans hold are looking at those numbers because, man, that is just one more nail in their political coffin. the very groups that they are already losing, they're bleeding even more support from. >> you know, they are. and, you know, those numbers 38 to 34, that means there are a lot of undecided out there. a lot of people aren't paying as

close attention as we are. when this hearing happens. those numbers go up. more people have an interest, because of what donny said the spectacle is almost sewer to be like and so then i think you will see more numbers, it will be quite worrisome. they feel at this point they have to go ahead they'll be worse off if they fail to get kavanaugh through. but that equation could change after hearing. >> jeremy peters. you are looking at how the evangelical leaders in particular are looking at the

kavanaugh nomination. they're frustrated. tell us why. >> because they see a chance to sell a majority on supreme court for a generation at risk of slipping away. >> what do you think can be done? >> that's a very good question. it's hard to argue republicans aren't doing everything they can to speed this along. so that's why the next few days are crucial. if are you chuck grassley, do you move the hearing few days forward? that doesn't seem like an unreasonable ask, really? republicans have been having two, trying to appear as reasonable and differential in public to ford saying, yes, we will accommodate you. we will come to you, send investigators. we won't put you in front of a public commission and make you do this on television. on the other hand, because republicans are under so much pressure from their base to get this done from an evangelical

christian catholic leaders. a lot of whom were involved in the selection process of kavanaugh in the first place, they realized they if they do not get this done, if kavanaugh's nomination falls apart, it could be the ends of the republican control, voters could be so angry, so depressed so deflated. they will not show up. >> last night in vegas, trump called kavanaugh a great gentleman and in a pre rally with fox news the president appeared to question why hess accuser waited. >> frankly, shown to see what's going on is just very, very sad. you say, why didn't somebody call the fbi 36 years ago? you could also say, when did this all happen? what's going on. to take a man like this and with that being said, let her have her say and let's see how it all

works out, but i don't think you can delay it any longer, they've delayed it a week already. >> reporter: you have been very acam dating. >> i have been accommodating. i say let her say what she has to say. let's see how it all comes out. they've delayed it a week. they have to get on with it. >> judges, oh, look at our judges. oh. what's going on? brett kavanaugh and i'll not saying anything about anybody else but i want to tell you that brett kavanaugh is one of the finest human beings you will ever have the privilege of knowing or meeting. a great intellect, a great gentleman and impeccable

reputation. so we'll let it play out and i think everything is going to be just fine. and we're going to get -- we just got neil gorsuch. i told you. we're going to get brechlt wett. we got great people. >> you got great people the councilmen was showering brett kavanaugh with the same ones we heard him talking about mike flynn, jeff sessions. serious. >> what about rob porter? >> rob portman, lovely guy. roy moore. >> the candidate whose baby wore the make america great again? >> ron desantis. he doesn't like ron moore. it's interesting, he's going through everything, talking about what a great guy kavanaugh s. kavanaugh was over at the white house for hours a couple days ago, trump wouldn't even see him, because right now thinks he's toxic. so. >> well, it is, it's difficult

conversation. in fact, i think for democrats and republicans, there's not a lot of wiggle room. >> i think the very thing he said about why didn't she come forward? that's the insane, ignorant male booby trap for these idiots. the answer is i was terrified or ashamed. even to suggest that just shows the ignorance. >> we don't ask that question of children or young adults that come forward against the catholic church? nobody is asking why children are, you know, young boys or young teenagers. >> it's obvious. >> didn't come forward 36 years ago against catholics. you should have heard these conservatives. it's a question of young men. so why are they asking that question of a young woman? >> this is exactly the problem with this nomination where it stand now, there was an allegation made, there are some real legitimate questions to be

asked. but at the same time we have president donald trump doing last night is the kiss of death. this is not the person you want your endorsement from right now. we see a rolling effect of frankly senators, male senators who say really silly ridiculous things. and it's hurting kavanaugh more and more and we're moving further and further away from the action at hand the allegation that something hammond 36 years ago we don't know the place or the time that would make it very hard to get details from. and now it's just exploding into a whole other conversation. that will end the nomination. >> a pair of republican lawmakers are facing backlash over their comments amid their assault allegation. on wednesday, senator dean heller predicted kavanaugh would

be confirmed we got a hiccup. in a follow-up statement, he said, no, i don't believe sexual assault allegations of any kind are a hiccup. i was referring to how poorly the democrats have handled this progress and the democrats have not worked with the judiciary community in good faith. meanwhile, in south carolina, republican congressman ralph norman aped the debate with a joke about the kavanaugh controversy. >> i thought i was going to be late. did you all hear the latest, late breaking news from the kavanaugh hearings. ruth bader ginsberg came out she was groped by abraham lincoln. i thought i was going to have to get back there, but we don't. >> here's what orrin hatch said earlier in the week. >> reporter: do you think that any of these claims are legitimate? >> no i don't.

i think this woman, whoever she is, is mixed up. >> rick tyler. did you ever do any communication work for either of those three republicans? >> if so, just leave. >> one of the things, exactly. one of the things we should have learned from the anita hill hearing is not to preserve those optics and that's exactly what they're doing. now, the republicans are aware of this, which is why they want to hire a female outside counsel. i think what they're saying what blasi fo brac blasey-ford is saying, they want to preserve the optics of the anita hill hearings, you have all these white men examining her. that's what they want to avoid.

his polling number is under water. that's a reflection of the president. most supreme court nominees don't later within they're nominated. the polling reflects that of the president of the united states, so it's gotten worse and worse. here's something we didn't see is that the democrats have solidified more of them now think that her claim is serious and true, more democrats don't. this is hyperpartisan submission. they are dammed if they do or don't. if they don't put koof inaugural through, they will despirit their base. >> that will be a big problem. but on the other hand, if that they rick losing independent and particularly women in the upcoming election. >> still ahead, michael cohen has gone radio silent when it comes to his nominations with

donny. who hasn't? that is not telling us much. >> conversations with bob mueller on the other hand may just be getting started. first, let's go to bill kierans with a check on the forecast. bill. >> we are watching a mixed forecast, we are going into fall. some areas will be beautiful, perfect venlg get outdoors, enjoy other areas. so we'll talk about eareas fimplts look at the radar, it wasn't too bad. all of a sudden in the last hours, all these yellows and reds, these are downpours in oklahoma. so for obvious reasons, we are concerned. we have flash flood watches up for this region. we will see heavy rainfall. 14 million people under those flood watches. isolated areas could get up to six-to-ten inches of rain. >> that could cause flooding concerns. the other story, 18 million at risk, we have a cold front that will arrive from cleveland to

buffalo to syracuse to pittsburgh. isolated tornadoes. yesterday we had six tornadoes in minnesota. so today's forecast, there is some great weather out there to be had today. it's beautiful in the inner mountain west. all of the west for the most part looking nice, here comes that fall air from minnesota and minneapolis. so let's get into the weekend forecast, stating with the heavy rain, today at oklahoma and texas. saturday over the top of you. arkansas starts to head into tennessee, mississippi, louisiana. on sunday, notice it doesn't move much. that's why i said, eh, the weekend in a few spots. if you want gorgeous weather, get out, enjoy it. the northeast the great lakes, through the ohio valley. this is the weekend you have been waiting for. sunshine and low humidity. it's been a long time since they had a weekend like that. >> washington, d.c. your weekend will be nice, you may have to dodge some showers. "morning joe" will be right back. [ music playing ] ning joe" will back [ music playing (vo) people with type 2 diabetes

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abc news reports donald trump's former fixer michael cohen has been talking to the special counsel's office over the course of the last month. he reportedly sat for multiple sessions lasting hours the network says the interview versus focused on all aspects of donald trump u trump's dealings with russia, financial business andaled collusion in the 2016 election. investigators say he was interested in whether the president or his associates dang tell pardon. cohen is reportedly working with the state of new york on a separate investigation. >> oh wow. >> into the inner workings of the trump family organization. >> he's a treasure chest. >> it's a shame the president can't pardon anybody in new york. >> good inside gracious, so much to talk about. that's where he worked for a decade, both mueller's office and cohen's attorney declined to

comment. the president's attorney rudy guiliani responded. >> of course, he did. >> saying cohen has a his of of lying. >> i'm sorry, didn't he sigh. >> levs a fixer. >> he said cohen was a wonderful man. >> did he lie for the president, that's why he knows deep inside he is a serial liar because he lied so much he must? >> rudy said. >> oh. >> rudy said cohen was a good man. >> right. >> and rudy the a good man. still, i'm curious, let's confirm quickly if cohen is talking to robert mueller? donny deutsche, you talk to cohen all the time. what are you all talking about these days? >> who is interesting as of a few weeks ago, we spoke almost every day. >> tell me ability mueller. what is the room like? does he drink a diet coke? >> in the last couple weeks, he all of a sudden. >> gone dark. >> responses are, yeah, we'll speak next week. he never said he was talking to mueller, but everything changed and my interpretation was clearly --

>> donny, doesn't that happen to you all time? >> i feel mueller said to him, son, we are in the adult dining room right now. you may have best friends and relatives, but you will be speaking. >> and never talk to a guy that wears a gangster suit with an orange tie. >> we need to talk to someone who doesn't go off on conversations on a daily basis, joining us, contributor emily jane fox. has he kept you off? >> i have been in touch. >> you can't ask that question. c'mon. >> not donny style. >> i haven't been governmented by anyone in michael cohen's lifestyle. >> not governmented the conversations are changed. it's very changed. >> yes in michael cohen's have certainly tightened. i reported he was in talks with

mueller. here's what i know, not only is he talking to robert mueller about things that he knew related to russia. he is talking to the southern district, obviously, ability the campaign finance payments that he made to women. he is talking to the attorney general about what he knows about the foundation. there is nothing that is off littles to michael. and this is why. he has a family. michael cohen has accepted the fact that he is going to prison. so whatever he can do to lessen his prison sentence to get the government to possibly say to a judge if december when he is sentenced, look, this guy was very cooperative. we recommend a lighter sentence, he is going to do right now. he also feels like the president did absolutely nothing to protect him, in fact, he did things to hurt him. so he has no reason, no feeling like i'm going to do anything to protect him. >> are there any fear e thetheo

donald trump threw him under the bus? >> who doesn't he throw under the bus? it's ill logical. he had a front row seat to not everything the president did in a lot of situations but his three adult children did. why he wouldn't bring that man in, if he was facing trouble? i think from my sense of things is, the president knew michael cohen did bad things on his behalf and perhaps on his behalf. so cut bait. that was the strategy. >> i don't understand it either. let me finish for a selling, he was astound. one other thing on to emily beyond obviously just wanting to as anybody would do everything to save his family. right after the helsinki thing, michael said to me, this has got to change another thing kicked in. the country thing kicked in. i'm not saying he is doing it to protect himself also something happened, something struck, oh my god, this guy is in charge.

something also shifted. >> coming up on "morning joe," puerto rico one year after the storm and the ongoing could have surrounding race in america. "morning joe" is coming right back. america. "morning joe" is coming right back in no hurry to make anything happen. neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair® works in just one week. with the fastest retinol formula available. it's clinically proven to work on fine lines and wrinkles. one week? that definitely works! rapid wrinkle repair®. and for dark spots, rapid tone repair. neutrogena®. see what's possible. so shark invented duo clean. while deep cleaning carpets, the added soft brush roll picks up large particles, gives floors a polished look, and fearlessly devours piles. duo clean technology, only from shark.

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we've done unprecedented movement in terms of federal funding to provide for the people of puerto rico and others that have been impacted. these storms will continue to do so and will continue to do everything that we can possibly under the federal government to provide assistance. >> yes that was white house press secretary sarah huckaby sanders last september speaking to supporters while trump official visitors visited puerto rico for the first time after five days after hurricane maria hit. our next guest who arrived in san juan the very same day calls her comments a fantasy. the author of a new book, we fed the island one people at a time. he's the founder and chairman of the world central kitchen and it's great to have you on with us this morning. >> thank you.

>> thank you for coming on. >> how bad was it when you dot there? >> as you learn, all of a sudden you see an island that was green, grey, like virginia in the middle of winter. and that moment you know that something bad was going on. >> right. >> we began driving. people long lines the gas stations, long lines in the sushlths that was day three, day four the worse is the the water is still coming. >> the worst was yet to come. weeks, months, the island, half the island without energy. half the island without a drink of water. what did you do? it's so hard when you go into a disaster zone like that. it's so overwhelming. you decided to contribute in your own way. >> we have do what chefs do,

cooks do. what happens, i tell my wife. you leave five days. five days later i tell her i don't know when i'm coming back. we went from one to 26. >> oh, wow. >> from one kitchen today to 25,000 volunteers, a thousand meals to 3 upon 7 meals. one day 3,5700 in a day. >> how did you do i? >> we opened one kitchen. we saw one was running efficiently, do we need a second one? every hospital is calling for food. we open a second the mayor she needed help, second biggest city. >> so scaling season just work for entrepreneurs. scaling works for saving a hungry island? >> let me tell you, it was not a plan. today, north carolina is not

feeling job. it is not feeling plan after this moments. i can tell you this one, it's not one that anybody executes to make sure no americans go unhungry. >> to understand the reality seems to be stretched by the president of the united states. what were your reactions when he made the comments he made about the death toll? >> listen, i do believe leadership is 51% empathy. this takes it a long way. nobody said, mr. president, you killed them. but his lack of actions, but he's saying that the death toll maybe was not a real number, it was very low, trying to cover up the real number. you know what was happening? what was happening is he was telling the government. don't worry, this was not as bad as katrina. so relax. that's what happened. maria was the worst hurricane in the history of america and we were not there to respond. >> you have a chapter there in

your book entitled big water. it was after the president commenting puerto rico is an island surrounded by big water. but the chapter goes into the logistics and the fundamental like, we talk about scaling and how you actually, the problems you face getting everything done. and could you go a little more into that? >> the long story short is that sometimes the great men and women of the next may be great. but there is so much red tape that sometimes nothing makes sense. i was not cook and feeding people. what we have is a distribution system. some days 900 points of delivering food daily. water we few was there. i couldn't buy it. i said can you give it to me so we can give it away? >> federal government gave us help with money, fema, to keep buying more food and feeding people.

so i couldn't buy the water. they owned the water. cy told them, give it to me. >> no, you have to talk to the federal government. i cannot give you the water. sell it to me. all of a sudden we found a million gallon of water sitting in an airport where nobody thought about let's send it out to the thirsty people. these are the things we need to change, more flexible people on the ground, boots on the ground, making sure we talk cake of every problem right there right now. >> you talk about the devastation. i was in the u.s. virgin islands after irma and maria hit. it was a similar scale of just utter destruction. it looked like the islands were set affair with napalm. more than that the structures that were damaged the hotels so vital to the economy that are still yet to be rebill. that's in the u.s. virgin islands, what about puerto rico? how far have they come?

you have been back since. >> yep. >> tell us how it looks now, how they're doing. >> last time i was there was before summer. let me tell you, if you want to help puerto rico right now, please, yes i tell everything that went wrong in this book him but puerto rico is ready for tourism. show up. you want to help the economy and it is a beautiful american island in the caribbean. show up. because tourism is a very important part of the construction of puerto rico, usually. >> donny, let me ask you about leadership. you've run a very successful company. leadership, 51%. >> point is, it's majority. the reason is because it's contagious. people know that that's the way people follow people. when you share you success, they will walk through fire and that, i got chills when you said that i really did.

>> that is clearly the thing we are lacking stunningly in our current leader. even what he did last week when he handed out a meal in north carolina, he said, have a good time. i don't call am sociopath, no, i will call him a sociopath to hand a meal to somebody who is ravaged and the words that come out of your mouth, have a good time. >> just to talk about the difference between how puerto rico was treated and how other places have been treated in northwest florida i remember one year, it was simple the hurricane goes through go to the gulf breeze middle schoolful you pull your car up. they give you water, diapers. they give you the state does the federal government does, fema

does. they give you food. >> listen. puerto rico was a disaster. i cannot blame anybody for not being ready. but gentleman not to change the game. you know when a recipe goes wrong and doesn't come out as you plan, you know what i do? i change the name of the recipe n. puerto rico, we didn't change the name of the solution. we tried doing things that were not working. we were trying to hire a catering company in atlanta 110 million dollars for 30 million meals that never more than 25,000 didn't make it into puerto rico. when actually we were cooking in the island, it was a catering company in the airport that was shut down that could make 250 years. the solution is in the item. we need to change the item. >> the thing we fed an island

the true story of rebuilding puerto rico one day at a time. thank you so much. >> it's great stuff. >> still ahead on ""morning joe"." >> we signed the biggest package of tax cuts and reforms in the history of the united nations. as a result of the tax bill, small businesses will have the lowest top marge nam tax rate in more than 80 years. that's out there. >> president trump is touting the tax cuts, but new reporting suggests republicans admit they've already lost the messaging battle. keep it right here on ""morning joe"." ""morning joe"." - [narrator] the typical vacuum head has its limitations,

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it was a middle of the night realization. in 2014 that led our next deficit to drive nine hours from

minneapolis to ferguson, missouri, quit his job and devote himself full time to activism. joining us, community organizers and host of crooked media's award winning podcast, pod save the people the author of the new book "on the other side of freedom," the case for hope. we welcome you. >> it's good to be here. >> it's been a long road, it's amazing it's been four years? >> its been a very long road, not only for you, but for your be best. >> you think about it for a long weekend. 400 days is a long time. we know way more than we did. you think about like in california, one in len homicides is committed by an officer, it's stuff that people don't know. >> how much of that is related to race?

how much of that is related to police training? times you will see a hispanic cop abuse a black suspect. sometimes you will see a black cop. >> it's convoluted. >> a black motorist. st. police culture that is racist? is it the individual tops? what is it? >> it's sort of a system thing. what the data shows, we did an analysis, black people are actually more likely to be unarmed and non-threatening in police violence which is interesting. the other thing that is interesting and i read about it. the laws that protect police. a law says any investigation of an officer that lasts more than a year can never result in displivenlt that doesn't make sense. in discipline they destroy it every two years. it's a system. >> how do you hold people accountable. >> if maryland, it says you can

file anonymous complaints for everything except brutality. >> that is what the law says, that doesn't make sense, you know. >> would you agree one almost of policing in communities and violence police towards minority violence has to do with the fact that in where cities, many departments the police officers largely white do not live within the combhunt that they are policing? that's within they go into south central boston or new york. they are policing people they are unfamiliar wind chill there is a fear factor in that squad car? >> yeah. >> they are living out in the white suburbs or the valley. they don't know the people they are policing. >> some of it is a part of. that you think of the training piece. what training do you need to go to to not kill an 87 e 11-year-old with a toy gun?

some of it is training. some of it is you need to know the communities are you in. the other piece we did a lot of work on is there is structural things. almost when you get all this stuff the police can't be unaccountable. if you take 1% of officers are indicted. none almost convicted for everything. that isn't a fair system. >> it sound like a modern day jim crowe system. the title of your book is helpful. hearing all that i'm not very helpful. i wonder how things can get better? >> we say the system is broken. some people say it was steined by this my take away is it was designed. people made this. tell me something can you buy for $300. >> you can buy a pair of really expensive pair of shoes. >> a pair of shoes. >> in florida, can lose your

right ovote can you imagine stealing a pair of shoes at 18 and permanently losing the right to vote. somebody made up the $300. this isn't hard and fast. you know i think about hope, hope is our tomorrows will be better than our somebody built this, so we can remake it. >> one of the things you have achieved over the last four years is awareness of the problem. the problem between police and people of color in this country. we've had guest after guest on this show tell us about the conversation they have to have with their children from a young age. a lot of white people in this country don't know. what to do if you are pulled over. what to do if you encounter a police officer. do you feel like over four years things have gottener wi better? >> a third of all the people killed by a stranger in this country is actually killed by a police officer so the data still is just not good. i'm hopeful -- you think about the civil rights movement. so we're like in year four. so i'm hopeful from awareness to

structural change will be real. the government actually doesn't collect data about this. if you get killed in america and a newspaper doesn't write about it, you're literally not in the data set. there have been years that the state of florida reports no murders by police. we know that isn't true. the government doesn't require it. i'm hopeful because i know there's a lot of good energy. in austin, the whole city council voted against the police union contract because it wasn't up to muster. those things are really powerful. the prosecutor races across the country seem like they might be promising but if we don't change some of these laws and policies that just protect the police in a way they don't protect the public, we'll never get change. >> it seems like something also that's happened since ferguson is the use of police cameras. body cams for police seem to be going up. and as we predicted for four years, there will be cases where that would actually help police

officers. is that -- do you think the idea of universal body cams for police officers will actually take down the incidents of violence? >> so i think that video's important, right. so when we look at the indictments of officers, it's almost impossible to get an indictment without some sort of video. the challenge is that the policy sort of moves so quickly that in some police departments, the officers can look at the body cam footage before they write the report. it's sort of sketchy. they never release to the public, they don't have to turn it on, right. so body cameras in theory are good but if they're not used in a way that keeps officers honest, it's negligible if it has impact. >> what's the message of the book? i feel like we can't close until we hear it. >> the hope is that people built this. because people built it, we can build something different. hope is a belief that things can

get better. i believe that. one of the reasons, parkland, me too, why people are pushing back against the system, because we know it can be different. >> the book is "on the other side of freedom, the case for hope." deray mck e sson, thank you. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." so a tree falls on your brand new car and totals it. and as if that wasn't bad enough, now your insurance won't replace it outright because of depreciation. if your insurance won't replace your car, what good is it? you'd be better off just taking your money and throwing it right into the harbor. i'm gonna regret that. with new car replacement, if your brand new car gets totaled, liberty mutual will pay the entire value plus depreciation. liberty mutual insurance. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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do you believe there's a need for republicans to go out and sell this bill, given how americans are currently viewing it? >> absolutely. we're looking forward to it. if we can't sell this to the american people, we ought to go into another line of work. >> that's the senate majority leader mitch mcconnell just minutes after the republican tax bill passed the senate ten months ago. now the republican national committee is reportedly conceding defeat. bloomberg reports that a recent survey commissioned by the rnc found by a 2 to 1 margin, people thought the law benefits corporations and rich americans over middle class families. reporting, we've lost the messaging battle. time now for final thoughts this morning, joe. >> susan, final thoughts. >> i'm going to use a little optimism -- >> yay!

>> why i don't expect civility in the hearings next week, i do expect we will start hearing it from some of the veterans running for office. >> about leadership and empathy. understanding what matters to others. >> wow. that could apply to the conversation. >> jeremy peter, whose mother calls him in the middle of the show and says he looks tired. >> ah, sweetie, you need more sleep. >> thanks, mom. >> i think what unfolds over the next few days, how republicans and democrats calibrate their responses to judge kavanaugh will determine not just the midterm elections but the tone of our political discourse for maybe the next decade. >> we have, mika, a lot of good republicans and democrats in washington who love their country. they need to look back over the past 30 to 40 years and say, hey, you know what, we need to break the cycle. the cycle that whether it

started with bork or started with clarence thomas. wherever it started, this cycle needs to be broken. after what happened to merrick garland. now we're seeing this with kavanaugh. let's just hope they show some dignity and hope we walk back from the cliff so good men and women will want to be public servants in this country. >> yes, i think democrats and republicans need to be so careful. i think sewing doubt in people is a dangerous ugly game. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks, mecca. good morning, everyone, i'm stephanie ruhle. let's talk. lawyers for christine ford in negotiations with chairman grassley's office over when she can testify, saying thursday is the earliest, and asking for conditions for her to appear, including never being in the same room as kavanaugh. and having him testify first. and hitting home. the latest round of trump tariffs causing outcry from the

largest independent diesel engine manufacturer located in the vice president's hometown. >> we're in line with the administration on fair trade agreements. tariffs are not the right answer to accomplish that. in fact, tariffs are harmful. >> an nbc news exclusive. the music publicist who organized the russian meeting in trump tower is breaking his silence. >> i've always looked at it as a bait and switch. >> and possibly a crime. >> and possibly a crime. >> but it was a dirty offer. >> yes. >> it was a dirty offer that they accepted. >> yes. that is true. >> we begin today with the 11th hour battle, i'd say battle royale, over brett kavanaugh's supreme court nomination. republicans, they have been desperately trying to keep things on track, insisting his accuser, christine ford, is running out of time to tell her stor