or your 10th draft. ♪ ♪ you get to create the room where it happens. ♪ ♪ just don't think you have to do it alone. ♪ ♪ the powerful backing of american express. don't live life without it. welcome to "politics nation." this morning we're following two developing stories, both with no clear sign of where or how they will end. first a bombshell report by the "new york times" claims that the number two official at the justice department suggested wearing a wire to take the president of the united states. and the president is now

debating whether or not he should fire the official who, by the way, is in charge of the russia investigation. also we can report this morning that dr. christine ford has tentatively agreed to testify before the senate judiciary committee sometime this week, probably thursday, about her allegation of sexual assault by supreme court nominee brett kavanaugh. an allegation that kavanaugh categorically and unequivocally denies. but the question remains, will kavanaugh testify that same day, and will it be a public hearing? joining me on set is darren sands, a national political reporter with "buzzfeed." in washington, christine ember, columnist for the "washington post," and alexis mchammond,

political reporter at axios. let me start with you, darren. the whole question of the "new york times" report that rosenstein had said in a meeting at the justice department that maybe he should wear a wire and meet with the president of the united states or maybe others should, and even brought up about imposing the 25th amendment which says the president is incapable of his duties. and one person said he was being sarcastic, others are saying he was very serious. we don't know, we were not in the room, we were not in his head, but what is the implications of this politically? we're heading into the midterms. because i've heard over the weekend there are two theories on this. some on the right are saying this was planted to affect the midterms and others are saying that this is a true story.

>> well, i think that, first of all, what we saw with jim comey and his sort of dealings with donald trump, this idea that he wanted to always have a record of what had happened. he was always trying to, i think -- he understood that should things go awry as it related to his sort of dealings with the president, he was going to have some records to sort of rely on and lean on. it shows a little bit about how, i think, with donald trump there is a sense that there is a great amount of uncertainty about whether he's going to be -- >> so in your mind it would be to have a record, not to really catch him trying to break the law. >> there is a precedent, actually, for a high-ranking law enforcement official dealing with the president of the united states, and so whether it's believable or not, i think the president will have, i think, in his mind a reason to fire him if

he chooses to. >> let me ask you, alexis -- lexie -- when you hear this, and you have to keep in mind here we have even his personal lawyer, mi michael cohen, recorded talking to his own client, which is unprecedented. so it's not as far-fetched -- listening to darren, i had to think about that. it's not as far-fetched that one would think upon first reading this, because it doesn't seem like many people dealt with this president even before his presidency trusted him. would it be to try to catch him committing a crime, or would it be to protect the truth of whatever the interchange and interaction would be between he and someone? either way it doesn't speak well of the president, but what is your idea -- what idea do you come out of this with? >> that is the million-dollar question here, but i think the big picture, and you alluded to

this, is that the people around president trump, whether by choice or by appointment, are increasingly distrustful of him, and i think that they see the way in which he treats various people as easily replaceable and fires them with a moment's notice. and people know that it is sort of an ongoing he said-she said with the president of the united states, so they want to do things like record him and take contemporaneous notes so they have evidence or a recollection of what happened from their own account because they know they can be fired at a moment's notice and they want to have that information at the ready in case that happens. that might have been what rod rosenstein was doingment . he obviously denied that he brought up even recording the president, so i think that's something to note. but i think it would be just to have a recollection of what happened, maybe not necessarily to catch the president in some sort of crime. >> christine, here we are, "new

york times", paper record is their reputation. two weeks ago, they print an anonymous article from a senior official. now they come with this story, unnamed sources but solid sources. it's the "new york times" if we still believe it to be the paper of record, and many and most of us do. why would somebody just fabricate something that never happened, and if it did happen in a meeting, what does it mean? >> well, one of the theories is that this might have been perhaps fabricated or planted to give the president an excuse to finally fire the deputy attorney general, which is something that he's threatened to do for months and has, obviously, i think, wanted to do for quite some time. this would give him a pretext, to say, you know, something untoward has happened in the office and he couldn't be

trusted to get rid of him. which could bring down the mueller investigation, which is what he's really worried about. however, the discussion about the wire and the 25th amendment actually sort of reconciles himself with the anonymous op-ed that the times printed just two weeks ago with other senior officials who also are apparently worried about trump's state of mind and want to watch him closely. this also -- this report comes from the spring of 2017 which was directly after james comey was fired. so it's possible that this was floated as an idea to see if any more obstruction of justice was happening in the white house to sort of keep an eye on a very rapidly changing situation at a time when people were extremely nervous. >> the timing of it very important. darren, let me go to our second big story of the morning. we hear of a tentative agreement between dr. ford, the woman

accusing the justice nominee kavanaugh of assault in high school 30-some odd years ago, set possibly for this thursday. we don't know if it's going to be agreed upon if it's public or private, we don't know who is going to testify first, we don't even know if they're going to be in the same room at the same time. what are the implications? rather than he said-she said, we don't know what's going to happen thursday. what are the implications. what is at risk beyond the obvious, the supreme court here. what are the risks for the democrats? what are the risks for the republicans? what are the risks for the women's movement? >> these are two questions beginning with rosenstein and with, you know, christine blasey ford about -- these are questions that could sort of alter the course of american history, whether she's going to

testify on thursday, we'll see. i think that one of the implications that people will be looking at is about what the women who will be voting on this supreme court nominee -- >> including the republicans. >> -- including someone like susan collins who said she was is appalled by what trump sort of responded as it related to the woman's story. i think that, you know, people are really active about -- you're seeing women talk about their own stories, the #whyididn'treport. these are all really poignant and important stories, and the think that's happening in our country right now, it's going to be a lot of high drama when it finally does come to whether she does publicly testify. i think it's going to be hugely important. and for the women's movement in particular, we have, i think,

the possibility for one of the momentous occasions. obviously you remember the anita hill testimony that was a very important time, one of the most significant moments in american history. so i think the same could be, i think, very much true this week. >> christine, when we look at this unfold, dan mentioned anita hill. i look at this and i remember anita hill. i have, in my own journey, in my younger career i fought a case that became very controversial believing in a young woman. and i fought the other side believing a young man from a young woman. i'm sure the movement is saying this could be great, or if

something goes wrong, it could be harmful. you as one watching this, i brought up something on this network on friday, that there is also an unspoken race factor here, because one of the differences between anita hill and today, and there are many other differences, but one is race. she was a black woman talking about a black man, and we're seeing this dealt with differently. is it a different time? is it also different because we're dealing with a different racial background here? >> that's a really interesting question. i think it is different because we are dealing with this in a different time. and you can tell that by the number of references to the anita hill hearing and how badly that went. and women especially, i think, were enraged by that. that's why you saw 1992 as the year of the woman, women entering office, women entering the senate and house representatives in record

numbers. but this case, i think, hinges interestingly on class, actually. one of the things we've been discussing a lot is brett kavanaugh's background as sort of a wealthy prep school character and all of the, perhaps, privilege and ability to maybe make bad decisions that comes with that. and then what that means going forward in the future. but i do think that we are in a very different climate, or we can hope we're in a very different climate. women, i think at this point, after the election of donald trump, after the many, many allegations of sexual assault there, after the roy moore case, are fed up. and this may be the last straw. >> lexie, at the end of the day, there are really going to be no winners here, because even if we advance and hope we do in terms of protecting women and dealing with what is needed to be dealt with, it's still very painful.

and even if the republicans win in terms of optics, it's still very painful that we're dealing with these kinds of situations and have not really gotten to a point in this country where we can accept that these things are unacceptable. >> i think that is exactly right, and that's the most disheartening thing in watching all this, is that i think we're seeing the issues of sexual harassment and assault becoming more and more partisan ev. even though we're having a national discussion on this, it's feeling more polarized. if someone on the right is accused, people automatically don't believe those allegations. if someone on the left is accused, we deal with it on both sides of the aisle. it has become more polarized. republicans are stuck in a place where they don't want to alienate women or upset them,

but they also don't want to dish kavanaugh. women are calling for what feels like basic equality in the sense of just believing people, but i think you're right. i don't think anyone really wins and we're considering how this issue is being handled, and that comes from the president's tweets all the way down. >> well, we'll see where it goes. hopefully we'll be able to see the hearing, but either way, we'll be watching. thank you, darren, thank you, christine and lexie. when we come back, former first lady michelle obama on why you should all register to vote. friends, colleagues,

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the truth is, when we stay home, things stay the same or they get worse. but when we all vote, we get new ideas and new energy. we get leaders who share our values and listen to our voices. that's how we change america. >> early voting is underway in five states, and with that, voter turnout efforts are ramping up. later today in las vegas, former first lady michelle obama will headline a star-stunning rally teasing up a nonpartisan voter registration push. we've now seen both obamas back out on the national political stage leading up to november's midterm elections. the message is clear, that with

just seven weeks to go, all hands are on deck. joining me now is tina chen, co-chair of when we all vote, and former chief of staff to first lady michelle obama. thank you for being with us this morning, tina. i and you worked together on many things during eight years of the obama white house, and one thing i know is that mrs. obama only gets involved in things that she's very passionate about. she's not the kind of person you can just get her to do things that she does not really want to do. nobody knows that better than you. >> that's true. >> she seems really all in on this. why is this so important to the first lady? >> as she tells the story, voting is something she grew up with. she watched her dad, even with his ms, get himself to the polls every voting day. it's something we've lost in

this country. last midterms only a third of the people who could vote actually turned out to vote. we need everybody to register. we need everybody to vote. our democracy depends on it, so she is passionate about this and she's excited about getting out there, encouraging people to register and vote. this is our week of action r reverance, so thanks for covering this. we kicked off last weekend with chris paul and now michelle obama will be in vegas with over 2,000 people this afternoon. >> now, she's in las vegas even though her drive is nonpartisan, and she has passionately spoken about people who were denied the vote, were able to get the vote and now we're seeing impediments put in front of people, and she's saying don't let that stop you, don't let anything be an

obstacle to your voting. i think she's a unique person in history to deliver that message because she's actually someone that comes from a community that is only two generations in having to right the vote, and now she's saying, don't complain. yes, there are things that are unfair. you've got to vote, anyway, because it's not as hard as it was. >> absolutely. there are ways you can get out there and register to vote. when you go to when we all vote, you can find out how to vote. we're trying to make this as easy as possible to get people out there to vote. we have volunteers in all 50 states to help people sign up and vote. it's the only way we can make our voices heard. >> five states have early voting where you can actually start voting now in five states.

>> that's absolutely right, reverend. and make sure -- because in case you get busy on the day of election day, in case you're sick, there is no reason you can't get out and early vote now as soon as possible. if you are living someplace else, get yourself an absentee ballot and make sure you're voting. >> as i said, i know the former first lady, but i also know you, tina chen. let me ask you to put another hat on for a second. you were a founder of time's up. how do you review the kavanaugh proceedings this week? what will you be hoping for and what will you be looking for? >> not only working with time's up, but as a lawyer i'm responding to companies of how to respond to allegations of sexual harrassment. we're asking companies and holding executives accountable that when something happens in your company, you have a fair process that is fair to the women coming forward, to people who are accused, that you investigate these allegations,

that you understand what's going on, that you treat everyone with respect and dignity in this process, and we should hold the senate to the same standards. i'm sadly not seeing it happening. i think that dr. ford has not been handled well and with respect. and i hope that that changes this coming week and we really have the opportunity for this highest position to the highest court in the land to understand what happened here. >> well, i think also i have to say that you and others have tried to conduct that that way in your respective roles throughout government and i can be a witness to that, even though no one has asked me to come forward and testify. thank you very much, tina chen. >> thank you, rev. it's great to be with you. coming up, if an 11-year-old girl in ohio is tased by police, it must be her fault, right? i'll explain when we come back.

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now for this week's "gotcha." i'm tempted to share another

segment of dot, dot, dot black and i have other mentality. an 11-year-old girl was tased by a police officer on the allegation of shoplifting. critics rightly took to social media to express their disgust, especially after body camera footage was released showing the child actually removing taser barbs from her arm. the issue was so egregious that the mayor issued a public apology. the prosecutor refused to issue charges against the girl. and the police department opened an internal review. but ohio state republican senator john becker was having none of it. he sent a newsletter to his constituents in which he explained that had the young

girl been his daughter, he would, quote, be ashamed and embarrassed that she did something stupid enough to get herself tased. i'll deal with the kid after we get home. he didn't stop there, adding, every time i hear shouts of justice, we want justice, i want to shout back, parenting, we want parenting. based on what i see on television, it oftentimes appears to me that justice was delivered to the dead punk. now, hold on. justice was delivered to the dead punk? we obviously have drastically different definitions of justice, state senator becker. but then this is the mentality that has been allowed to flourish under the trump presidency, and it makes it difficult to proceed in police misconduct investigations.

but just so you know, mr. senator, where i'm from in brooklyn, a punk is someone who talks big but always finds something to hide behind, like a racist newsletter in a safe district that won't hold you accountable at the ballot box. i dare you trying to say half of what you said in your letter on a street corner in brooklyn. then tell me again, who is the punk? but either way, i gotcha.

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earlier this week the family of stefan clark marked six months since the father of two was shot and killed by two sacramento police officers after a brief chase. 20 rounds were fired at clark on the suspicion that he had a gun. his alleged weapon later found to be a cell phone. i spoke at clark's funeral, joining the family and calling for a swift investigation by the sacramento police department. that was mid-march, folks, and here we are in mid-september. and i was back in sacramento, urging police to complete their

internal investigation which, as of yet, has no conclusion in sight. the paralysis is reminiscent of the ongoing controversy in dallas where, on tuesday, the city's police chief told the press she couldn not fire the officer who shot and killed another unarmed black man, botham jean, in his own home earlier this month. joining me now is race and ethnicity reporter for "associated press" and freelance journalist and author of "my brother moochie." aaron, the police chief said she cannot fire the officer who came and killed mr. jean in his own home, saying she thought it was her house. aside from the fact i don't know what kind of training you have where you don't know your house

from another, even in the dark, is it, according to your findings, is it accurate that a police chief cannot fire her? because i find that unfathomable. >> good morning, reverend sharpton. apparently that contradicts the department's own policy that says she would be able to take action to preserve the integrity of her police department. obviously the texas rangers are investigating, and she was saying she did not want to interfere with an ongoing criminal investigation, but according to the department policy, it is showing she could weigh in on this if it were to preserve the integrity of the department. >> and to fire her in terms of the police officer, in terms of what she did on duty -- not on duty but did as an officer, would not in any way impune the

investigation by the sheriff's department. it's saying the job she can no longer really do, because who could trust somebody who doesn't know their house from somebody else's house and kills somebody? >> true. yes, and also -- it is like one of the big things -- it's like, i guess my biggest thing is that good cops -- i'm sorry, bad cops we saw prosecuted simply had -- had -- had -- had -- >> the good cops being -- >> they were actually there to

create trust. >> yeah. that's what we're seeing and that's what your book -- that's why i wanted you on, because you've had to deal with people who had to deal with how they express and show this, and that's in your book. but, erin, if you look at -- and again, i was in sacramento this week. six months later it seems to be a long time for a police investigation. now we're seeing the police chiefs in dallas, any number of cases down through the last several years, and i think the point that is being made by isaac is that it breaks down the trust in policing. it's not that people are anti-police, it's that you keep doing things that just doesn't make sense to the people that you are entrusted to protect. >> right, reverend sharpton. what we're seeing, really, you

have a cumulative effect with -- as these cases continue to happen, as the outcome -- it's rare for a police officer to be held accountable in these shootings. and so whether it takes six months, nine months, a year for the outcome to always be the same, that can be disappoint forg folkdisappointing for folks. stefan clark, that investigation has gone on for six months. it has not been wrapped up so not sure how much longer it's going to take. the family in the botham jean case are shocked at the delay in her being arrested, even. >> and that she was only charged with manslaughter when many of us feel it was murder. >> right. and you're seeing now in chicago, for example, laquan mcdonald, officer van dyke's trial is happening now almost four years after laquan mcdonald was killed. i think what we're seeing in all

of these cases is that the legal accountability process can be a long journey for families, and that must be very frustrating. >> now, speaking of texas, there is a tight race there in the senate. listen to democratic candidate beto o'rourke during a debate with senator ted cruz. >> african-americans represent 13% of the population in this country and yet they represent one-third of those who are shot by law enforcement. we have something wrong. if we have the largest prison population on the face of the planet and it is disproportionately comprised of people of color, we have something wrong in this country. >> now, when we look at that, we're seeing a very high-profile senate race, ted cruz race, real tight. no one ever thought he would have a tight race in texas. is race and racial justice and high incarceration going to be

central in the midterm elections, in your opinion? >> yes. and because -- especially since 2016, as you saw, president trump actually rolled back the oversight of police and other forms of justice -- for me that is definitely a critical issue. >> and it's going to be an issue that has to do with driving out the vote. >> absolutely. what you're seeing, especially a young girl electorate that has

gotten much more engaged with the black lives matter standard. not just with congress, but their local lawmakers, district attorneys, secretaries of state. they're realizing across the board that they're people who are affecting their everyday lives when it comes to policing and they're understanding those people are on the ballot as well. and you do have a 100% shift of the narrative formally who call for police reform and that may be something that needs to be addressed now having an administration that believes local law enforcement needs more praise, not more scrutiny, and that if anybody is in need of fixing, it's the justice department and the fbi. >> i think that's part of isaac's point here, is that when you've gone from the obama administration, and a lot of these cases from trayvon to

ferguson, and i was in the forefront of raising all of those, to now, even when you had some people saying obama should have been doing more, now you're seeing the reverse. with obama you might say, well, he's doing 100 miles an hour, we want him to do 150 miles an hour. now you're going 100 and 150 the other direction. >> right. >> the question is, what will be the political fallout of this, if any, in the midterms? >> i sort of just think of people that are actually tired of waiting on justice. >> but will they vote? there is a difference because we've got to see the connection with the voters. >> i think we're already seeing it. look for the primary election. the laquan mcdonald shooting, people responded and said criminal justice is an issue

they cared about and he was willing to speak up on it. i think what you're seeing in texas is beto o'rourke and the response to the botham jean shooting is going to make people pay attention in ways they otherwise wouldn't have been engaged. >> i'm out of time, but i'm very happy to have you, erinn. and isaac cook, this show is about people who aren't often heard that have challenges heard. >> i appreciate that. >> they need time to talk to say that this is their show. up next, is the u.s. congress as diversified as you think it is? i'll tell you next. -♪ he's got legs of lumber and arms of steel ♪

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all you have to do to find it is get out... here. ♪ welcome back. so you know that this white house is uniquely homogenuous even for the republican administration. but as the "new york times" pointed out this week, they are

vastly unappointed in what is very diversified. less than 14 i% of top house staffers, chief of staff and departmental directors are people of color. and before you assume that the problem is particularly to the gop, understand that less than 25% of top democratic staffers are of color. and that's largely because of the congressional black caucus. joining me now is spencer overton, president of the joint center for political and economic studies. spencer, when i looked at your report, it is almost unthinkable that in 2018 we have such little people of color in powerful staff positions in the congress,

including among top democratic congress people. >> that's right, reverend sharpton. even though our nation is increasingly people of color, the top staff is overwhelmingly we found that americans are more likely to elect a person of color to the u.s. house of representatives than the actual members of the house are to hire top staff of color. >> wow. >> you know, it's just amazing. and as you mention the problem is not a republican or democratic one. we found when you look at white democrats, even though they represent districts that are on average 37% people of cull, less than 8% of their top staff is people of color. and we also found that republicans, there are more white republicans that have chiefs of staff of color than white democrats. >> now, when you look to at this

so people, our viewers understand, senior staff members, the ones that decide what the congressional member, the priorities, how we handle things, what's important, how we handle staff complaints, constituent services, so it's not just a question over head counting how many black, how many latinos, how many asians, how many whites, it's also what they bring in terms of their world view and experience to an office. and when you have an office that is not diversified, it affects the work that the office see and does and gives priority to. >> that's absolutely right. so everybody has to remember that each member of congress has about three top staff, a chief of staff, a communications director, and a legislative director. we found that the overwhelming

majority of members of congress did not have one person of color in any of these top three positions. >> when you say overwhelming majority, you mean democrat and republican? >> democrat and republican, we found that three quarters of members, 313 had no person of color in any of these top three positions. and of those about a quarter of the house of representatives, over 100 of them have very diverse districts. so they have districts that range from 33% people of color all the way up to 93% people of color. and these folks do not have people of color in any of the top positions. and as you mentioned these are important positions, right? they oversee a $4 trillion federal budget, and they oversee the president and executive branch and 3 million federal employees. so these people have enormous power in terms of shaping the

future of our country. >> so when we are dealing with those that get the overwhelming vote of black supporters, even those 37% black, latino or asian, yet they will not make sure their offices are diversified, that is the ultimate example of taking us for granted. >> it is a real problem. because if you look at white democrats, for example, less than 2% of their staff staff are black even though african-americans vote overwhelmingly, about 21% across the country, about 25% of all democrats voters are black. so there is a mismatch here in terms of representation and reflecting the views of the people. >> well, i think this is important information that we should share with the public.

people ought to know that everything you see is not what you're getting. you see the member, we need to see those that are the team behind the members. do they reflect the constituency represented? >> great service to us by you presenting this report. thank you, spencer overton. coming up in case you missed it last week, i just won an emmy. i kind of won an emmy. my final thoughts next. need a change of scenery?

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a lady stopped me in the airport about a month and a half ago and said i'm keenan thompson's mother and he's finally nominated for an emmy. and you know keenan imitates you a lot and he has you down pat. well, guess what? keenan won the emmy and i congratulate him. and since he imitates me so much, i think i should at least give a picture of keenan. he would imitate me so much and take shots of me so much on april 16 they let me come on "saturday night live" and let me play me. >> mr. charles richards.

>> good morning, reverend. please don't take this the wrong way, but i expected you to be a little skinnier. so keenan, congratulations. you deserve it. you have entertained and you have entertained far more than just imitating me like many others and your own comedic talents. and i'm glad for your mother that you brought an emmy home. and i'm glad for me that i'm still smaller than you. good morning and god bless you today. that does it for me. thank you for watching. i'll see you back here next sunday. now to my colleague, alex witt. >> i have to ask, you've hung out with world leaders, civil rights leaders, presidents, but isn't that kind of the coolest being parodied on snl? >> it's cool when it's over.

while it's going on you don't know what's going on and you kind of keep your fingers crossed. >> oh, my gosh, he does such a grit imitation of you. a very good morning to all of you, i'm alex witt and here's what's happening right now. one step closer. christine blasey ford reaches a tentative deal to tell her story about brett kavanaugh to the senate. >> there is a willingness to testify. >> the lens is going to be sharpened. in those circumstances the tension and anxiety will certainly be higher. >> it will be a judgment call as to who do you believe is more credible. >> thrj what the white house is doing to save the president's supreme court pick. also the effort to keep the president prom firing rod rosenstein. the ripple effects following a bombshell report. plus poll numbers just