♪ welcome to "kasie dc." i'm kasie hunt. we're live every sunday from washington from 7:00 to 9:00 eastern. tonight -- the u.s. senate, am i right? just when you think you can't take it anymore, they reel you back in. amid some of the most toxic comments in recent memory, a last-action bipartisan moment to remember. undecideds get another week of breathing room on one of their most difficult votes. plus, the president instructs the fbi to reopen their investigation of brett

kavanaugh. but will it go far enough? and we'll hear from attorney michael avenatti who wants his client, julie swetnick, to be included in the probe. weeks ago, there was hope from republicans that brett kavanaugh would be sitting on the supreme court as its newest justice when the new term begins tomorrow. but today they face a very different reality as the fbi opens a background investigation amid multiple allegations of sexual misconduct against him. the fbi started right away on friday. but as of now, attorneys for dr. christine blasey ford say they haven't been contacted by investigators. another accuser, deborah ramirez, has agreed to cooperate with the investigation. and nbc news reported the white house has limited the scope of that investigation, including a specific witness list that we're told does not include julie swetnick who has alleged that kavanaugh was at a party where she was sexually assaulted in 1982. or former classmates of kavanaugh's who contradict some

of his testimony on thursday. president trump tweeted on saturday, quote, nbc news incorrectly reported, as usual, that i was limiting the fbi investigation of judge kavanaugh and witnesses only to certain people. actually, i want them to interview whoever they deem appropriate at their discretion. please correct your reporting. and here's the president at the white house on saturday. >> will you give the fbi free reign to investigate where they -- >> they have free rein. they'll do whatever they do. they'll be doing things that we never even thought of. and hopefully at the conclusion, everything will be fine. >> joining us tonight from the supreme court, nbc news justice correspondent pete williams. and with me on set, intelligence and national security reporter ken dilanian. and "new york times" political reporter and msnbc contributor jeremy peters. thank you all for being here. ken dilanian, you've been doing a lot of reporting over the weekend as to how this

investigation is or isn't limited. can you help us clear up who is right? the president claims they can talk to anybody. it's our understanding that's not the case. >> after the president issued that tweet this morning we heard from two sources who said, in fact, nothing had changed. there were strict limits placed on invest investigation by the white house counsel transmitted to the fbi and those limits remain in place. there's a witness list of four and does not include dr. ford which may be why her attorney is saying she hasn't heard from the fbi. it's starting to look like -- on friday, people thought there was going to be an extensive fbi vfigation probing all aspects of kavanaugh's drinking and representations about his yearbook and everything in question. that is not what is happening as far as we can tell. >> how would the investigation -- can you just give us some examples of what they could be doing that they're not allowed to, like perhaps calling the safeway where mark judge worked. >> mark judge has said he worked at a grocery store, a safeway in potomac and dr. ford testified

she saw him there. they could verify the records. we're told that's not something they're doing. kavanaugh's character zagizatio his drinking at yale. someone said he misrepresented the nature and state of his drinking. that goes to the nature of this sexual misconduct because the allegations are it happened while he was drunk. it's something you'd think the fbi would want to get to the bottom of. it's our understanding that's off limits, as well. >> pete williams, i'm interested to hear from you. you're outside the supreme court looking at this new term where it looks like we'll have four and four, total of eight justices to start out this term. what's your sense from having covered this for a long time of the damage that's already been done to judge kavanaugh and to the court as an institution? i mean, we do still talk about what happened with clarence thomas and if judge kavanaugh is confirmed, what's your sense hough this could or maybe not, could follow him? >> well, it's certainly going to

hang over him if he is confirmed, just as in a similar way it's hung over clarence thomas. and i think there could be some lingering questions about the impartiality of him given the political attack, the nature of the harsh attack on senate democrats and some of that undoubtedly will reflect on the court as well. but these things tend to change over time. in terms of the acceptance by other justices of brett kavanaugh, remember, they know him. he's been a court -- appeals court judge just down the street from here for 12 years. they've reviewed his decisions. they know him. they've read his writings. so, you know, he's going to still have a one vote just like the other justices do if he gets here, and they tend to be very collegial. i just don't know what the effect is. i think for some people it may be a reaffirmation that, a, the confirmation process has become ridiculously political. and secondly, they worry that the court has become political. and we're going to have a situation here now where we're going to have, no matter who

gets confirmed by the way, whether it's brett kavanaugh or anyone else, we'll now have five dependably conservative votes, all appointed by republicans and four dependably liberal to moderate votes, all of those justices appointed by democrats. so i think in the minds of many people who were worried about the institution, including john roberts who has made comments about this, they're worried about that. >> pete, there's been some speculation that if kavanaugh doesn't get confirmed that we might face a situation where there would be a vacatincy on t court for the remainder of trump's time in office. either the president would decline to put someone forward that the democrats would get behind or they'd obstruct anyone he puts forward. what's your sense that impact could have on the country long term? >> i find it hard to believe if the kavanaugh nomination for some reason goes down the president wouldn't immediately nominate somebody else because

this is -- he said so often this is important to him. you know how important it is to the base politically. so i find that hard to believe. whether they can get confirmed or not is another story you're better able to handle. after justice anthony kennedy died, the court went over a year with just eight justices. when we have that, we have supreme court light. they tend not to decide the difficult questions, but that was when we didn't -- we had anthony kennedy and they were worried that maybe he would -- pardon me, vote with the liberals. when we have four and four votes and it's a tie vote, then you get these diminished decisions. they try to decide cases on the narrowest possible grounds. so it would -- the court would go on. most of the business of the supreme court is not by close votes but for the high-profile cases, they would probably have to sit out a year or two. >> interesting. jeremy peters, let's talk about the politics of all this for a second because i think one impact that we've started to see

emerge, and i feel like this is still shaking out a little bit, but where kavanaugh was important before for the base, he is now the absolute most important issue. you talked to somebody like joe manchin who maybe was going to get away with voting no to keep his colleagues in the senate happy. he didn't want to make everybody mad but now people at home are sending him a different message about how important this is. >> kavanaugh has become this avatar for conservative grievance. he's -- i wouldn't at all be surprised if you start seeing his face on t-shirts at trump rallies because that primal cry that he issued at his hearing on thursday was exactly what conservative voters wanted to hear. it's exactly what president trump wanted to hear and we know that he was very pleased with what he saw. so there's this pent-up sense of -- the conservatives can't fight back as hard as they'd like to. that they're punished for their political beliefs. they're told they're too politically incorrect --

>> wasn't that the story of donald trump from the beginning? >> exactly. there's this real sense, legitimate or not, that they are punished more than liberals are. so when you feel that way, when you feel you're constantly being judged or told what you can and cannot say, watching a performance like we saw on thursday from judge kavanaugh is all the afofirmation they neede. it's a battle cry and stuck it to the left as far as conservatives are concerned in the same way that donald trump does because as a lot of people smarter than i am have observed, probably the most powerful thing about president trump's appeal with his base is not that he's conservative because he's not. >> because he hasn't been. >> he's anti-left. >> for sure. pete williams, thank you so much for sticking around around your "nightly" live shot to join us. i'm sure we'll have another busy week near washington. thank you. we also mentioned the name julie swetnick earlier who sources tell susnot on the fbi's witness list in the kavanaugh

probe. swetnick claims she attended more than ten house parties in the 1980s where she witnessed brett kavanaugh and mark judge engaging in sexual misconduct, including putting drugs or alcohol in punch so women could be gang raped by male partygoers. we should make clear that swetnick has not accused kavanaugh of committing any crimes against her and kavanaugh has strongly denied all of the allegations. still, swetnick's lawyer michael avenatti has been urging the fbi to investigate while some republican senators have seemed to dismiss the allegations out of hand. >> i'm shocked that our colleagues would embrace this kind of uncorroborated, outrage ow salacious allegation considering the facts and the timing and the representation by stormy daniels' lawyer. >> mr. avenatti's allegations were so scandalous that the

ranking member omitted his client's most scandalous accusations of you as a criminal mastermind essentially. >> you've got people like the one-man circus show, michael avenatti. he is not a serious person, and he is not interested in your future. >> joining me now is the attorney for julie swetnick, michael avenatti. thanks for being on the show. i appreciate it. i want to start kind of why senator sasse left off which is a question i've been hearing from democrats on capitol hill over the course of the past week which is, you have political ambitions. you have not been quiet about those political ambitions. you were just in new hampshire yesterday, i was told. and some democrats have said, if michael avenatti, as a political animal, really cared about making sure that judge kavanaugh wasn't on the bench, he would have sent his client to another lawyer. can you respond to that? >> i am not at liberty to say, but i -- you as well as i know

that occasionally information has to be withheld. so -- >> what's interesting -- >> kasie, first of all, i haven't heard that from any democrats. i have yet to hear any democrat go on the record. i just don't believe it. it's a bunch of faun sennonsens. they believe it they should step up and use their name and go on the record. >> go ahead. >> let me finish. i have a 20-year track record. i have over a billion dollars in verdicts and settlements representing hard-working people around thus country. i'm the current trial lawyer of the year from public justice for the entire nation. i got a $454 million jury verdict last year. i'm one of the finest trial lawyers in this country. i've represented one porn star in my 20-year career. i've represented republicans. i've represented democrats. these republicans are going after me and donald trump are going after me for one reason and one reason only.

because they see me as a considerable threat. and they should see me as a threat because i am a considerable threat. now as it relates to my client, my client came to me because i am a very good lawyer. and i represent my clients, and i do a very good job as evidenced by the last 18 years of trial practice and the work that i've done for stormy daniels. i've done an exceptional job. everything that i have promised, i have delivered. i have not been found to make one false representation. i've made prediction after prediction that has come true. my client submitted a sworn declaration from the senate judiciary committee. it's not my declaration. it's not my signature. it's her declaration under oath. >> okay. >> she has multiple security clearances. now ms. ramirez is being interviewed by the fbi. has -- >> that's exactly what i was going to ask you about. has the fbi come to you?

have you gone to them? what is the official status of any conversations between you two? >> i can't go to the fbi. at least as it relates to this particular matter. we have made it known to the senate judiciary committee. i've made it known publicly for a week now. we want an fbi investigation. my client wants to sit down with fbi agents immediately. i've made that clear. i've asked for it repeatedly. we haven't heard from the fbi. this investigation is a scam. it's a sham and it's a con job. and we know that because the white house is controlling who gets spoken to, who gets investigated, and who gets interviewed. how much does it take -- how difficult is it for a couple fbi agents or even one to call me on the phone and ask to speak to my client for an hour or two? that's not a lot of resources. they don't are want want to tal client because they're afraid of what she may say. and if senator cruz and other senators on that panel and

donald trump, if they really believe that my client was bogus, that what she said had no basis in reality, you know what they'd be doing? they'd be begging for the fbi to meet with her so she'd lie to these fbi agents which is a crime, as you know, punishable by prison time. so she would lie to them and they could make an example out of her and they can wipe me off the face of the planet by discrediting me. why don't they want to speak to my client? >> do you have -- are you aware of any people or potential witnesses who were at these parties who can corroborate her story? >> many. many witnesses. i've spoken to many witnesses. i've been clear for the last week that there are corroborating witnesses. we just didn't make this up out of whole cloth. i didn't just reach into the ether and find some woman to sign a false declaration. >> i'm not accusing you of that. >> i know you're not, but others are. and it's offensive. and it's disgusting. and these senators are going after me because they see me as a big threat.

and i am a big threat to them. and that's -- and they're afraid of what my client might tell them. and they're afraid of what my client might tell the fbi. we have evidence. we have facts. we have witnesses. and i don't understand for the life of me how you can call this investigation anything other than a sham and a con job if they are refusing to sit down with my client even for an hour. >> and you don't have any concerns that your client is -- could be better represented by somebody who is less political? >> no, not at all. absolutely not. i do a phenomenal job for my clients and i've done a phenomenal job for the last 18 years. and anyone that looks at the track record of the last six to seven months in the stormy daniels case, i'd challenge anybody to do a better job. i've given countless interviews. check the legal filings and legal work we've done. it's been a-plus. >> let's talk for a second before i let you go about your own political ambitions. where are you in thinking through the process, and quite franckl ly frankly, there's a lot of people

who want to run for the democratic nomination in 2020? how do you think your potential competitors stack up when taking on the president? >> i've received an incredible response every state that i've gone to. i think i've surprised a lot of people. i've received a lot of encouragement in various states to run. i've received a lot of enkourngment from the democratic national committee and senior leadership within the committee frankly to run. n people a fighter. and people want somebody that can beat donald trump. i don't care how much experience you have. i don't care how deep you are on policy. if you can't beat president trump, you don't have any business running because if you can't beat donald trump, you go home. >> i want to ask you as well you have proposed a litmus test that includes expanding the supreme court to 11 people. senator amy klobuchar said i'm not going to have michael avenatti tell me what the litmus

tests are this election and that you're just trying to make a splash. your response? >> i've been making a splash for six or seven months. i respect the senator. i'm not trying to tell her what the litmus test is. i'm telling her what i think the litmus test is. and, you know, some of these folks that are going to run for president, where were they when they allowed the garland seat to be stolen from president obama? where were they on that seat? had they done what they needed to do in connection with the garland seat, then there wouldn't be so much angst over this particular seat. >> michael avenatti, thank you so much. i'm very interested to see the um pa um pact you're going to have on this debate. they now see his nomination as too big to fail. and we'll talk about whether the fbi investigation gives undecided senators more cover to vote for brett kavanaugh when all is said and done. plus, is rod rosenstein going to be fired this week? we'll discuss his future and talk about why he was also at

the center of the deal to get the fbi to investigate judge kavanaugh. it involves two grown men and a phone booth. we'll explain. "kasie dc" back after this. which is why esurance hired me, dennis quaid, as their spokesperson because apparently, i'm highly likable. see, they know it's confusing. i literally have no idea what i'm getting, dennis quaid. that's why they're making it simple, man in cafe. and more affordable. thank you, dennis quaid. you're welcome. that's a prop apple. i'd tell you more, but i only have 30 seconds. so here's a dramatic shot of their tagline so you'll remember it. esurance. it's surprisingly painless. when heartburn hits... so you'll remember it. fight back fast with tums smoothies. it starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue... and neutralizes stomach acid at the source. ♪ tum tum tum tum... smoothies... only from tums not long ago, ronda started here. and then, more jobs began to appear.

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welcome back to "kasie dc." nearly 20% of u.s. households with televisions watched testimony from dr. christine blasey ford and judge brett kavanaugh. that doesn't include the countless others who gathered on

college campuses or in bars or huddled around phones. what they watched unfold was one of the most contentious and partisan hearings in recent memory. >> the whole two-week effort has been an orchestrated hit. >> what you want to do is destroy this guy's life, hold this seat open and hope you win in 2020. >> let's look at beach week ralph club biggest contributor. i don't know if it's buffed or boofed. >> it's brought us the worst in our politics. >> and then came friday. and a morning statement from senator jeff flake supporting judge kavanaugh dealing a major blow to democrats who hoped that he might flip. not long after, though, two survivors of sexual assault confronted flake on an elevator with personal and raw rebukes. hours later as the judiciary committee was preparing to vote, flake was nowhere to be found.

he was behind closed doors huddle with his longtime friend senator chris coons. more and more lawmakers joined them in an answer room before the arizona republican joined democrats' calls for an fbi investigation before a full senate vote. i caught up with senator coons right after all this unfolded. >> can you take us behind the scenes in your conversations with senator flake? >> senator flake and i respect each other. we've traveled the world together and legislated together and we're concerned that what we saw in yesterday's confirmation hearing and in today's speeches on the committee is tearing the country apart. he felt very strongly that he wanted to send a signal to the american people that we can work together, that we can pause on the final vote on judge kavanaugh to ask the fbi for a brief focused in scope and time investigation. and i said i would come forward and say that was an important and significant thing for him to do. >> and i want to welcome in my

panel. with me on set, capitol hill reporter leigh ann caldwell, jeremy peters who has been here. the co-founder of the federalist society, president of the club for growth and former republican congressman david mcintosh and co-founder and managing editor of the beat d.c., tiffany cross. thank you all for being here. leigh anne, we've been -- i can't believe we're about to start another week of this. it feels like the last one had barely ended. but i want to focus in on what we saw between flake and coons and how this saul unfolding. it is so rare that we get a chance to see something come of the personal relationships built across the aisle in the senate. used to be something that happened with -- pretty regularly on really big issues. >> that's right. i heard you say that on friday on air. that was so poignant that it was these deep personal relationships. but also, you know, senator flake was confronted by these protesters which had an impact on him. what was really bothering senator flake was the lack of

decorum, the complete breakdown of the senate. this was one of the most partisan hear,s we've seen in a long time. democrats, you know, flake even said this. democrats yelling at republicans. republicans yelling at democrats and vice versa. and ever since he announced his retirement, senator flake has said that he's made it a point in pretty much every floor speech, many of his tweets, statements that something needs to be done that people need to come together in the senate and keep the senate from devolving into pure chaos and becoming the house of representatives. >> and jeremy, somewhat depressing fact of all this is if anything, a lot of the people who are willing to work that way are leaving the senate. we've lost senator john mccain. chris coons has been the subjects of attacks from his own left because he wanted to bring back the filibuster for judicial nominees. >> that's right. you have the increasingly partisan behavior of lindsey graham which surprised an awful lot of people. >> i don't think it surprises anyone if you remember how he

was during impeachment, but fair enough. >> right. i guess like mccain did often. which version of him are you getting. >> fair. >> david can speak to this, too. there were an awful lot of republicans last week who were saying, why didn't we just allow the fbi to look into this in the first place? they thought this was a really stupid self-inflicted error on their part because it didn't -- wouldn't take much and now they're having to go back after the fact, retroactively do this investigation and it's just going to leave more time for the democrats, which we know what they're up to right now to try to find more on kavanaugh to make him less confirmable. to make this more uncomfortable for republicans who do want to vote for him. so how this week is going to end, i have no idea. >> david, you have worked with judge kavanaugh for many years. >> i've known him for a long time and know him very well. where is his thinking right now in all of this? he's been defiant saying that

you can go through all of this but take a vote on my nomination. but i'm not going to quit. this is difficult for his family. >> it's terribly difficult for his family. and i think he shared that very effectively and honestly with the senate committee and the whole nation last thursday. it feels like he's being put through the wrunger of a terribly unfair personal assassination attempt because he's the swing vote on the supreme court and people are predict -- >> you think that's what it's about. >> i think ford was compelling and i don't want to take anything away from her and what she feels happened to her. i kind of agree with lindsey graham's point that the democrats have used her. if they really wanted to get to the bottom of it, they would have had the fbi referral to that which they could do on

their own last summer. they could have taken it to the chairman and said let's do it together. so the theater and the way this is playing out really does look like it's an effort. let's stop this nominee and win the senate and hopefully stop the rest of the trump nominees. one of the former clinton advisers basically told "the new york times," that's the game plan. >> tiffany, what happens next, though, if, in fact, kavanaugh is confirmed? what's the long-term consequences for -- the woman in the elevator who said to jeff flake, you're sending a message to me that what happened to me doesn't matter. >> what senators have to ask themselves is what happens when the other shoe drops. i don't think we'll stop hearing from people who come out and counter some of the things he said in the senate judiciary committee. we've seen "the new york times" is reporting another person who is saying i don't remember or i disagree with how he characterized his time at yale. and if it is theater, to your point, the -- kavanaugh himself wrote, directed and starred in his own drama with some of the

behave we saw play out. even if you look at it, this is a job interview. if you were interviewing somebody for a job who spoke that way and behaved that way, is it somebody you'd say, yes, you deserve a promotion because this privileged temper tantrum you just threw before the entire court. when you put someone on the court who is extremely partisan and showed he's incapable of looking at something through a nonpartisan lens. he's accusing sitting senators of carrying the water for the clintons. this will be a real challenge for senators to get past if they put him on the supreme court. i may be more cynical than you, but i don't give flake this badge of honor for doing this. i think this is someone who has political ambitions. so he's able to successfully get the fbi -- he was able to stop this and get the fbi to conduct an investigation. he has an excuse to vote for this nominee. >> i want to pick up on that point. i wonder if that isn't the dynamic that plays out. we let the fbi investigation.

there's nothing additional so now leasusan collins, lisa murkowski, jeff flake. >> this could give these members cover to vote yes. it's a lot harder to vote for kavanaugh when there's not been a complete investigation and now we're at the point on, is this going to be a fair investigation? is the fbi going to thoroughly investigate this? yeah, it gives them the opportunity. it makes it easier for them to vote yes. assuming they think that this was done okay. >> and that's the big question is whether or not they can convince people what they're doing is enough. just ahead -- rod rosenstein, due at the white house again. and we now have a kasie dc podcast. features the best of our broadcast. it's perfect if you missed the show or want to listen on your monday commute to work. kasie dc podcast is available wherever you getti your podcast. we'll be right back. -♪ he's got legs of lumber and arms of steel ♪

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911 emergency care is there when you or your love one need it. i'm talking to him. we've had a good talk. he said he never said it. he said he doesn't believe it. he said he has a lot of respect for me. and he was very nice, and we'll see. and he's a member of the trump administration. in that sense. it's the justice department. i would much prefer keeping rod

rosenstein, much prefer. many people say i have the right to absolutely fire him. he said he did not say it. he said he does not believe that, and nobody in this room believes it. >> after a tumultuous two weeks, even by his standards, rod rosenstein is slated to meet face-to-face with some of his harshest critics, house republicans and even the president this week. ken dilanian is back. this was to happen on thursday. rosenstein was on the phone with jeff flake and chris coons according to some of the "new york times" reporting trying to explain how long an fbi investigation would take. but what is the state of play with him with this white house. is he really in danger? >> i don't think so anymore. i think the president has become convinced by his advisers that firing rosenstein would be a horrible mistake before the midterms and doesn't get them anyone. it's not going to make the mueller investigation go away. he'd have to fire the entire justice department and fbi to make that happen. it's going to -- it would cause

huge backlash among democrats and in congress. and, you know, there's every indication to believe that nothing much is going to happen in the mueller investigation between now and the election for reasons of justice department guidelines. so he's going to accept rosenstein's story that he offered to wear a wire in jest. he was being sarcastic and never talked about invoking the 25th amendment. >> what do you want me to do, wear a wire? >> even though the times has sources saying otherwise. >> i've had some republicans defend rosenstein to me saying that he's sort of different from some of the other characters that have become -- that they've villainized. >> he's been around for long enough. people know him in washington. he has good relationships with people on the hill. i think there are probably times when trump would love nothing more. to do that before the midterms, you think the left is angry now,

just wait until they confirm kavanaugh, assuming they'll be able to confirm him. if trump came along and did something like that, that's basically hands controlling congress to the democrats. >> it would probably distract from the current project which is get judging kavanaugh on the bench. >> totally. and it was a little baste distraction last week. would he be fired or not? i think rod rosenstein is walking, you know, by definition, a very tight wire. he does have conservatives angry at him because he is holding back documents they feel they have every right to get. and i think they're right. on the other hand, i don't think he's misguiding this whole investigation. the one thing that he should do is actually enforce the justice department policy on leaks. and i know that won't be popular in the media, but he should just put down the rule. anybody who is caught leaking is going to be fired and taken off of this investigation because we

need to go about it in an orderly, professional manner. >> i will say, i don't think bob mueller is leaking. ken dilanian would know better than i. >> somebody leaked this whole conversation about him who probably had the objective to get trump to fire him. and so you've got to say who did that? who is leaking the things -- there's always a leak before mueller announces something. who is doing that? probably not bob mueller but there are a lot of people working wutwork ing with him. still to come, one country, two very different takes on thursday's testimony. hey, no big deal. you've got a good record and liberty mutual won't hold a grudge by raising your rates over one mistake. you hear that, karen? liberty mutual doesn't hold grudges... how mature of them. for drivers with accident forgiveness liberty mutual won't raise their rates because of their first accident. liberty mutual insurance. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty ♪

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i was in a hurry to try to get the information forward but didn't quite know how to do that. however, once he was selected and it seemed like he was popular and it was a sure vote, i was calculating daily the risk/benefit for me of coming

forward, and wondering whether i would just be jumping in front of a train that was headed to where it was headed anyway and that i would just be personally annihilated. >> i want to read from a long section of alexander petree's piece in "the washington post." she's usually a humor columnist. the last couple have not been that way. she writes it's painful to watch a woman caught and torn in the years of a man's progress. to watch the meaning of her name change to a thing that happened to her once. to watch the first sentence of her obituary get rewritten to watch her name be linked to this man, anita accuser of clarence, christine, accuser of brett. all she asks is for the train to stop. these trains move very fast. we must not ask why. maybe the train will stop for a week. that seems fair. a week just to make sure, a week to take this seriously at a gentleman's request. women are used to squinting to

see our own stories and the stories of others to reading ourselves into the words all men are created equal to being the thing tied to the tracks to raise the stakes. i am so tired of the moment when you discover how little your weight counts against the trains. and tiffany, this was a theme we heard or i heard over and over again from the women who came to capitol hill this week and who were -- some of them telling their stories for the very first time. >> yeah. i think the nation paused. i remember watching anita hill testify and being mesmerized by this woman on television telling her story. and it felt very surreal being here again in 2018. and i thought when you saw those two women confront senator flake in the elevator, it really showed that the powerful don't drive the people but the people just drive the powerful. and i think when you juxtapose the two testimonies we heard between dr. ford and judge kavanaugh, you really saw a difference in who they were and how they approach things. and even her disposition.

and we can take a break if it's okay with you or, yes, if you don't mind, i'd like coffee. always trying to appease and apologizing for your very existence being there. so i completely understood that position as a woman and knowing what it feels like to be the only and demanding your space and owning your own territory. so it was a surreal experience to watch. >> david, can i ask you -- one thing that's changed recently is the end of the filibuster for the supreme court. quite frankly, we would not be here, judge kavanaugh would not have had to go through that hearing if that existed. and the point she makes is this is a man who is asking for the pinnacle of his career, right? this is not somebody who has had, you know, he's had a very privileged life. what do you say to women who don't understand why he might still deserve to be on the highest court in the land after what we heard from dr. ford? >> well, and let me say this. while i disagree with tiffany about him, i think he's a

gentleman and is fighting for his career at this point, but to women about dr. ford, that's something that i noticed both republicans and democrats agreed that she was a very sympathetic person. >> trump even said that. >> and they approach it differently. tiffany has articulated the way the folks who don't think kavanaugh should get it feel. my wife and other women that i know, including some very liberal women, think she was used in all of this and feel -- and were outraged about that. that something that she wanted to keep very private, something clearly happened to her, that wasn't honored. so i think the lesson from all of this, hopefully, will be we have to respect women and we have to acknowledge women and my wife says virtually every woman in the workplace experiences this. i believe her. we have to acknowledge that, but we also have to respect their desire for how public they want to be with that.

>> right. speaking of going public, kellyanne conway on cnn this morning spoke about her own personal experience with this. take a look. >> i feel very empathetic for victims of sexual assault and sexual harassment and rape. that -- i am a victim of sexual assault. i don't expect judge kavanaugh or jake tapper or jeff flake or anybody to be held responsible for that. you have to be responsible for your own conduct. let's just be honest what this is about. it's raw partisan politics. all women can't -- i want those women who were sexually assaulted who were confronting jeff flake, god bless them, but go blame the perpetrator. >> i have been wondering why the president was being so measured in how he talked about this. and kellyanne conway went out when this first happened and said we need to hear from this woman. i thought it was remarkable she was willing to say that in public. >> yeah, and when i -- just minutes before the president put

out his first tweet kind of attacking dr. ford, moments before, kellyanne conway said, i don't need to tell him what to do. he knows the right thing to do, and then this happened. she's a very dominating force in this white house. i think the president still listens to her n maybe -- i don't know this, but maybe she relayed that experience to him or tried to get him to understand that dr. ford should be heard. and he stuck with that for a couple days, but now he's back on the campaign trail making this an issue on the campaign trail which republicans hope this will motivate the base. >> he's been this curious kind of side figure in this discussion. yes, there have been times -- >> it's the ffrirst time we're covering a non-trump story in nearly a year. >> that's why people, regardless of whethre you come down on kavanaugh find this so troubling because it says something deep ber what's broken in our country than trump. for so long we've been used to

blaming our national embarrassments, if you're so inclined otrump. and this is clearly about something else. >> jeremy peters, leigh ann caldwell, thank you. our weekly segment, women to washington and how this could animate the midterm elections. as their spokesperson because apparently, i'm highly likable. see, they know it's confusing. i literally have no idea what i'm getting, dennis quaid. that's why they're making it simple, man in cafe. and more affordable. thank you, dennis quaid. you're welcome. that's a prop apple. i'd tell you more, but i only have 30 seconds. so here's a dramatic shot of their tagline so you'll remember it. esurance. it's surprisingly painless.

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the latest gallup poll shows a major divergence between men

and women. 60% of men approve versus 43% of women. a 17 point gender gap. at the same taime last year it was nearly even. we're seeing a historic wave of women running and waiting to see how this moment will impact the future candidates. joining me now is a former ms. american and congressional candidate for alabama's third district. mall l mallory hagan. i want to start by asking you're running in tough territory. why do you think you have a shot at winning? >> well, i think the thing people are craving is authenticity and for the state of alabama, jones pulled out a historic win. we seen democrats really energized since then. so between those democratic parties that are forming and every county across our state and the amount of college campuses that we have where we see young people get engaged,

there is a real shot here. >> what is your take on what we saw play out in washington over the course of the last week, do you think at this point judge kavanaugh should serve on the acce supreme court. >> as a woman as a survivor of sexual assault, i first and foremost think it's important to acknowledge women across the country and around the globe have been reliving their trama this past week. i commend dr. ford and i'm really concerned about the rhetoric we're seeing involving sexual assault but what i think is that the american people deserve due diligence. at the end of the day, we deserve for someone to sit on the bench that is fair and just so i think investigating to the fullest extent of these allegations is what is most important. >> do you think that republicans have been discounting dr. ford in a way that makes you uncomfortable and i do appreciate you sharing with our viewers your own story. >> you know, i think that all of this is political bargaining tools and we have created a

mockery of this situation and a way that is unfair to both dr. ford and frankly judge kavanaugh. there is room for this conversation and i think that we should be having it but i think that we saw a lot of egos on both sides of the isles and i hope we can come to a conclusion best for the people of america. >> what do you think the fbi should be looking into? you know the scope of the investigation is pretty sharply limited to just a hand full of people. do you think that the fbi should be able to follow leads and interview anyone they might be interested in? >> absolutely. the fbi is supposed to be an independent organization. having parameters set for them limits their ability to do their job, absolutely. >> so i have to ask you as we wrap up here, you saw on display this past week how divided washington is in addition to the country. why is it that you're anxious to

serve in the congress when frankly a lot of folks i talked to every day feel like the system is very broken? >> well, i grew up in alabama. my family has been here for seven generations and i'm a young woman that understands what the people of our state go through on a daily basis. i have teen parents. we relied on the government when i was a child. i got my first job at 14 and like many kids that go off to college, i worked three jobs my freshman year at auburn. i know what the families of alabama they need and i think we need representation willing to listen to them and sit down and have those tough conversations who is willing to hold town halls unlike the current congressman. those are important and the people of alabama and america deserve representation that's doing just that. >> mallory hagan, thank you so much. we'll keep an eye on your races as they unfold. thank you. >> thank you. in the next hour, elizabeth warren said time and time again she's not running for president until now. plus, historian and the team of

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. judge brett kavanaugh's nomination uncertainty. >> a one-week pause to channelen. >> public allegations made by three women. >> judge kavanaugh has gone through six. >> six fbi background checks. >> the white house should not be allowed to micicro manage an fb investigation.

>> the white house is not micro managing this process. >> the white house is not getting involved. >> her testimony was compelling. >> credible and compelling. >> sympathetic and she was sincere. >> equally as compelling was brett kavanaugh. >> it was clear to me something happened to ms. ford. >> it appears something happened to this woman. >> perhaps he doesn't remember. >> the big question is, was that brett kavanaugh. >> i think they could both be right. >> both accounts cannot be true. >> she didn't corroborate her testimony. >> there is not a single bit of corroborating evidence. >> he was clearly belligerent, aggressive, angry. >> i found him to be appropriate indignant. >> if i was unjustly accused, i would feel like that. >> trying to portray him as a fu stumbling, bum bling, drunk. >> they accused him after being a serial sex criminal. >> god help the next person who comes. >> these are not normal times. >> i thought of the old legaled a age. >> this animal is wick id. it defends itself when attacked.

>> if you don't have the facts, you argue the law, if you don't have eate ither, you pound the table. welcome to the second hour of "kasie d.c." former chief nomination counsel to the u.s. senate and washington post political reporter and msnbc political analyst david and joining us from seattle, presidential historian and author of "leadership in turbulent times" doris concerns goodwin. welcome to all of you.k goodwin. welcome to all of you.er goodwi. welcome to all of you.s goodwin. welcome to all of you.n goodwin. welcome to all of you. goodwin. welcome to all of you. goodwin. welcome to all of you.ns goodwi. welcome to all of you. after a gut wrenching thursday that was put on pause by the kind of minute the senate was herolded for. for millions, christine blasey ford becomes a sill boll when a victim of sexual assault is treated as secondary of the whims of powerful men. for millions, judge kavanaugh

seemed to be the target of smears coated in the erroneous sexual allegations and when the sun came up, all that was left was to count the votes but small bipartisan group of senators was meeting aware of the deep political costs to themselves and country and unsure of what to do. senator jeff flake signalled to his party he would vote for judge kavanaugh but was having trouble with his cononscience. people were emboldened to come out and say what happened to him. i heard from friends, close friends. i had no idea and there was a confrontation with two women that demanded he listen to their stories keeping the door pried open. but it was behind closed doors where everything changed. >> did the protesters that you encountered play a role? >> everything that i've seen and viewed and experienced in the last couple weeks had an impact.

you know, chris and i have worked together on this. he's always thoughtful. chris is. is genuinely good member of the senate who tries to work across the isle when he can. >> senator coons asked himself before giving the final speech, am i trying to make an argument to persuade jeff flake? i significantly revised my comments to make them somehow persuasive to anyone that might be interested. as the vote loomed, some democrats including camera harris and richard blumenthal walked out in protest but they hammered out a deal back stage that came out to life on national television and went to mitch mcconnell and president trump who said yes, there could now be an investigation. moments of compromise used to be the mark of excellence for the united states senate and today

it's closer to a kill switch. not the first time jeff flake bucked the president and his party. he cut a check to jones in alabama. and it may not be the last time he frustrates his own party. flake said he wants to vote for kavr kavanaugh but we'll see and tomorrow flake will be back in new hampshire because that's just a state that's nice to visit but the big thing is when the fbi completes their investigation, it's very possible we'll be right back where we started politically and friday night lindsey graham, susan collins, jeff flake were seen together at a cafe here in washington. so john harwood, i want to sort of unpack this with you a little bit because this used to be how bug thi big things happened. i remember when i first started covering capitol hill, things were sliding into deep partisanship but still when you were standing inside a door trying to break news, there were members of both parties in the room and that's not true any more. >> it's gotten harder over time mostly because the parties have

gotten sorted out by ideology as well as party. it used to be you had a lot of liberal republicans in the northeast and conservative democrats in the south and so the partisan divide was one divide but geography was another and ideology was another. now it's become hardened and sort of a triple reinforced wall of the partisanship where you have a southern dominated republican party that is all conservative, a liberal democratic party and all of the incentives, all of your peer group pushes you in one direction. there remain a small number of people who in certain circumstances will defy them but it's really hard and it's really rare and the fact that chris and jeff flake can do that shows it exists. >> we have more on that buddy, buddy relationship. senator flake talked about his long relationship with chris coons and a trip to africa where

they were in fact chased by elephants and indeed here they are during a trip back in 2016. >> senator flake and i fell in love with africa as a young man. i was an under graduate at the university in 1984 for a semester. >> i was a missionary here in 1981, '88 '82, '83 in similazim south africa. >> senator flake and i had a great working relationship. >> we have a great partnership. >> i'm particularly grateful for my friendship. this won't be my last trip. >> thank, internet for that gem. the moment of bipartisanship has not gone unnoticed. coons returned home to delaware where he got a standing ovation at a town hall and yesterday in new york city, coons and flake appeared on stage at the global citizens festival in central park. >> hi global citizens. i'm chris coons, a democrat from

delaware. >> i'm jeff flake, a republican from arizona. >> it was our personal relationship that made the politics of compromise that prevailed yesterday possible. we hear you. and we need to keep hearing from you. >> so feel free to join me in an elevator any time. >> okay. so that last comment aside, they were followed by cardi b and i talked to before this unfolded, senator coons how he usually attends this festival and is not always greeted with much notice or interest but this year he's a big celebrity. you've been behind the scenes as these nomination fights played out and the process is partisan and the defining issue especially for the current leadership in the senate but at the same time, do you think the process has broken down over time from kind of your perspective behind the scenes? >> certainly got in worse. the parties are sorted.

but also the court and where the court rules on central issues and politics is aligned with that, too. it's getting harder and harder for members of either party to give difference, the last several supreme court justices are with party line votes, obama judges, gorsuch and kavanaugh. that's where we are and of course, we've also saw this break down here with background investigation process which is totally new to me and something that hurts me to see because when i was on the hill, we were fighting about george bush's process. i worked hand and glove with lahey's counsel on the republican side and took allegations seriously and confidentially and they weren't part of the bigger fight. i'm worried how the senate will handle after this nomination any allegation like this. >> right, doris goodwin, what is your kind of overall perspective here on how this sort of pause came to be, the way that the

senate has sort of drifted away from what used to be a place where these kinds of friendships got big things done, if anything, we'll lose people like flake and coons, we're losing more than gaining, you spent so much time looking at this and i'm curious to your thoughts whether judge kavanaugh after all unfolded can be a leader on the supreme court. >> in addition to the hardening of the parties we talked about, it used to be a time they were the rule rather than the exception. in the 1960s they stayed together and didn't go home to raise money. in many ways the poison in the system and the spouses would be living there and their children knew each other and they played poker and knew each other as human beings, not as the other. when i think about being older than you, what it was like in the '60s when they could hammer out a deal to get the bill through in 1964 to change the whole face of the country by ending segregation in the south, they could sit around and make

deals and promise ambassadors p ambassadorships to them and the whole illinois would be sunk but he finally says you want to be remembered over time, right? you want to care about your institution of the senate. if you come with me and bring republicans to break the filibuster, then 200 years from now school children will only know two names, abraham lincoln and dirkson. how could dirkson resist? >> sorry, go ahead. >> no, i was going to say, i think the other question you asked is the real concern right now is that what you're looking for in a leader and he will be a leader on the supreme court is someone who has the humility to acknowledge errors. what if he came on in the beginning and said something about i will have the fbi look into me. i believe i haven't done anything, had the humility to ask for that and know that. what if he was able to control emotions and had been understandably angry about what was happening to him but then when he veered into the passionate part of the partisanship, supreme court justice has to be fair to both

sides and i wish he had just rehearsed that statement for himself and then left out the part about clinton and the revenge and the partisanship and just made himself the angry person about what was happening to him, which people would have understood. >> kasie -- >> it makes you happy to know this moment has happened and wish it was much more often. i think the country wants that. >> yeah, john. >> i think dirkson got conned. [ laughter ] >> maybe. >> 200 years from now. >> actually named after the man. meanwhile, there is this new reporting according to one of the senior sources involved, judge brett kavanaugh is quote too big to fail. there isn't talk of a plan b. the source said there isn't enough time to put up a new nominee before the miss term so they will stick it out. the source close to the white house legal operation said if they do get up a new nominee in time, there is no way to be certain other male prospects wouldn't have a kavanaugh problem. that's encouraging.

what is your view from the white house about how they are looking at this? i feel like there was a time when this first happened that they were potentially willing to say okay, if this is a real problem, we'll check this guy and go onto the next pick. the way this was elevated nationally has become so important to the bases. frankly in both parties but for the president's base that they stick by him. >> the source is the president is now personally invested in brett kavanaugh because he basically went out and said the reason why everyone is attacking me is because president trump is president and everyone is mad about the fact he won the 2016 election and aligned himself and attacked the clintons. you had president trump watching someone echoing his own behavior and the things he's been saying so now i think he feels a personal connection to brett kavanaugh he might not have felt from a guy that went to yale and seen as elite. the sources i talked to says the president does not want to at all discuss a second person. they want to have brett kavanaugh and the president on the record in front of reporters

when asked about this on friday said not even a little bit. when people said are you considering a replacement. i think what we have is a white house absolutely sticking by brett kavanaugh mainly because of the things he said. >> david, the white house sure g ser j -- is there a risk in limits it too far, that it doesn't seem legitimate to the people but also specifically to this four or five senators that will make the difference on the vote? >> sure, i think there is a -- you start an fbi investigation like this you ask questions. if you talk to people like mark judge and others, you get a more full account and there is obvious leads to follow. if we come back after a week and somebody says the four people in the room were these four people and you only talked to three, there is other obvious holes in the investigation. you think it would be an insult

for collins or flake to take that where the fbi is stopped by a brick wall where they want to go on. i don't think that would serve the purpose republicans hope to accomplish, which is get collins, flake, murkowski to say yes. the fbi got this lead. wanted to call the next person on the original list and they were stopped. >> want to jump in? >> there has been a lot of misunderstanding about what the fbi does in this process. i used to do this daily and when we -- when the senate sends the fbi back again, there is a limited scope. there is something in there the senators are worried about. we don't know enough about this. they may significauggestion fol talk to. >> how would it work if the fbi said we talked to this person you wanted us to hear from and we learned this person may have information. do they have to ask the senate

if they want to talk to that person? how does it work? >> typically they can just do it. there is a lot of gradation here. if there is a natural fallout, they would go ahead and do that. not in general reopening the searching probe. they are trying to learn. >> i want to comment on the fact the president is saying to axios or the white house is saying they might have a brett kavanaugh problem with any other male they put up. neil gorsuch didn't have that problem and sad commentary you're worried whoever you might put up would have this issue. vet that person yourself and see what happens and by the way, there is this idea maybe you can put up a woman. women can have the same issues. there is the idea anybody you put up should be well vetted and it goes to the idea this is a president nominated two men so far. >> right. it also suggestions that if any person could have allegations

perhaps there is the allegations that are out there are false, which is also embedded in that. still to come, new reporting just in one of brett kavanaugh's accusers met with the fbi confirmation will play in the midterms? before we go to break, reviews are in. the president like many, i don't watch "saturday nieght live." even though i past hosted it, it's a political ad for the dems. word is kanye west was great. he's leading the charge. more on kasie dc in just a minute. these hearings taught me a lot about what happens at white prep school, i never thought i'd say this but i'm sending my kids to a black school where it's safe. sending my kids to a black school where it's safe

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the source says ramirez provided a list of witnesses who she says can corroborate her claim. she kasays kavanaugh exposed himself. the white house has limited the scope of the investigation including a specific witness list that does not include julie swetnick who says she witnessed brett kavanaugh and mark judge engaging in sexual misconduct. president trump disputed that

saying he wants the fbi to interview whoever agents deem appropriate by sources say that tweet has not changed the limits imposed by the counsel's office on the probe. john harwood, what -- there is hesitation among my sources around what julie swetnick is alleging. what is your view how this might play out? do you think americans will see an investigation that doesn't include her allegations as legitimate or not? >> it sounds like we won't see that investigated, although, as greg indicated, sometimes these are fluid or change while in process. i do think the swetnick allegation has been sensationalized of its own but it's been sensationalized to discredit by republicans because subsequently, they are describing it as a gang rape, set of gang rape allegations. >> right. >> if you read the articles by

the young women that went to private school in the 1980s, they talk about parties where things got out of hand, guys got out of hand. it's not gang -- it was not gang rape, thought of as gang rape in the sense of somebody being dragged into an ally and people assaulting them. it was cool kids at the schools and doing things that are regarded with a lot more horror now than they may have been at that time. and there are people who said yeah, there were parties like that and of course, mark judge's former girlfriend describes judge as having confessed to her that he was at a party where that happened. i doubt it will be seriously investigated. i doubt they will focus on ramirez and christine blasey ford but it is not -- i don't think michael avenatti did his client any favor with you tonight in the way he was bragging about himself and i

think your point was correct th that. >> how often did you run into issues where ocho nomin, ma'a a problem? >> it is treated confidential. >> in general. >> in generalities, things that would disqualify someone from a judgeship comes up with regularity, several times a year over the hundreds of nominations that go through the judiciary committee, it could be sexual nature, physical violence, substance abuse, having a history of making racist statements. all these things would disqualify you. when the fbi speaks to dozens of colleagues, friends, neighbors, ex-boyfriends, girlfriends, disgruntled business partners, someone may say yeah, that person is a compulsive liar or

make a racist remark. sometimes you learn more and the nomination dies there. sometimes you don't. sometimes you're left with one allegation that seems somewhat credible but nothing backing it up and often, the committee decides to let the nomination move through in a situation like that. >> interesting. senators seeming to sum up gender norms in congress in 30 seconds or less. >> guess who is per pstarting ti want to say to the men of the country to shut up and step up. do the right thing. >> i know i'm a single white male from south carolina and i'm told i should shut up but i will not shut up, if that's okay. because i got here the same way everybody else did. the people in south carolina voted for me. >> doris, let's go to you because you watched all of this unfold over many years, women very much under represented in

the congress, the first year of the woman coming after clearance thomas and anita hill unfolded and now we're facing this now. the two of them seem to sum up what is the clash that's going on right now? women who are saying men have been in charge for decades and we're tired of it and men saying hey, we feel under siege. >> i think one of the things we can take from this experience is that the way dr. ford conducted herself with such dignity, whether or not she bends history with that, you know, my old friend said few will have the chance to bend history but in the small acts, then events get changed and i think the way she conducted herself and as i say, and then the complication on his part, you have to trust the word of a potential leader in the supreme court and if only he had admitted at the start if he was at some of these parties and things did get out of hand and he did have too much to drink but presenting him as a choir

boy makes it more complicated. more women are running for election than ever before by huge numbers, huge as president trump would say and that's a good thing. that's the answer to this to not be spectators to be citizens. that's the answer. we're so sad about this divisiveness happening in our country and the way to deal with it as a zcitizen, the changes that take place, the anti sla slavery movement. we can't sit back and what the leaders are doing in washington. we can change it. we can do it. women can do it, as well. >> to that point, so much of the evolution of women's issues and the femmovement is two steps forward and one back and sitting here now and i am out of prediction business after president trump but i have been tracking this carefully and the move has gone back and forth and sitting here now it seems more likely than not that kavanaugh will be confirmed.

no worries. we all have mishaps. [ laughter ] >> but what message does it send to -- how discouraged will women be 45eding into theading into t determines whether or not they make a difference. >> i've been saying for months trump is on the ballot in every single state. i think kavanaugh is going to be on the ballot in every state and i think even if he's sitting on the accept preem court, whether you're a republican or democrat, these moments are going to energize people and people will think about what they saw and witnessed between dr. ford and brett kavanaugh and saying i need to figure out which party i support and who was backing that person. all around the country people said they are energized by what president trump is doing and saying. republican women as well in some cases but a lot of democratic women. we'll see as people coming out and reacting to this on the ballot and i should say i talked to someone who is a former source high up, that person said republicans are ready to die on

this political hill and even though republicans know it will be bad for them if brett kavanaugh gets on there, they want him in there. e van again k evangelicals voted for trump. if he can deliver that, we'll have a couple people happy with that. >> david, you wrote about how this moment captivated the country. and that is one thing, you know, sometimes as i try to sif through the news, our news cycles have been so intense, sometimes it's difficult to figure out what cuts through and doesn't but there is no question the nation was absolutely riveted. >> that's right. we had people talking to people observing them observing ford and kavanaugh. i found there to be much stronger reaction to ford. the people were watching her sort of together. they were -- that was an event people wanted to be together for. women particularly but people of all kinds.

that was the chanmoment. if you care about politics, you would watch it. it seemed like the ford part of that day had a residence above and beyond politics. it reached out to a lot of women and people called c-span to report histories of sexual assaults. calls to the national sexual assault hot line went way up and caused people to see themselves and come forward and reach out and seemed like it was much greater for that part of the day. >> i'd quickly say i have friends and sources that live in florida which is a big swing state. they watched throughout the whole thing and many believed him and thought she was coming out too late. i thought there were a lot of people that saw a man fighting for his life, fighting for his dame. i think a lot of people were moved by him, too. >> i don't disagree with you.

thank you so much. really appreciate it. just ahead, we'll take you on the ground to nebraska where enthusiasm could surge to flip a congressional district but how will the kavanaugh confirmation change dynamics with midterms approaching and as we go to break, we dug deep into the kasie d.c. vault way back in history, all the way to tuesday. >> today i stand before the united nations general assembly to share the extra ordinaordina progress we've made. in less than two years, my administration has established more than almost any administration in the history of our country. america is certain. didn't expect that reaction but that's okay.

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as the battle to confirm brett kavanaugh stretches into another week, indiana joe donely

is a no. joe tester said he'll vote against kavanaugh siting not only allegations but views on the patriot act and quote, thousands of e-mails and calls from montanaens. meanwhile, joe mansion of west virginia has publicly remained undecided but put out a statement backing senator flake's calls for investigation. and democratic senator heidi told reporters at a campaign stop this weekend quote there are a lot of lawyers in america that can sit on the court. i think this idea that there is only one person that can do the job, we all need to recalibrate. those are pretty interesting colts from t comments from the senator. if you're one of these senators, especially susan collins or lisa murkows murkowski, you have to think in terms of different from any typical vote for a supreme court justice. this feels like something that will become part of your own history, that people will remember and will define you. >> actually, that's a really

good point and it's a good thing if that happens because you hope these senators will be looking not just for ambition to get another election and get the popular will of their party behind them but what is the right thing they feel for the country? how are they assessing the character and temperament of judge kavanaugh? do they think he's the right person to go on the job? do they say as to how they want to be remembered as someone that decided my party is this way and i might lose this election. sometimes you lose an election and you'll be remembered by history. maybe it's not as much fun at the moment but if you feel you did the right thing for yourself, history suggestions those people with a profile and courage can go on ward and i hope that's how they think about this. a huge decision going beyond party lines right now and is going to determine longevity on the accesupreme court. >> we've seen enthusiasm this cycle. at the same time, the latest nbc news "wall street journal" poll shows the gop may be starting to

catch up. 61% of republicans surveyed said they are very interested in the midterm elections compared to 65% of democrats. given that, vaughn headed to a swing district in omaha nebraska february to see how it is cresting and what republicans are trying to do to stop it. >> don't be complacent. you got to get out for the midterms. >> reporter: democrats across the country galvanized a potential blue wave in november's midterm elections. what is different in 2019? >> i turn 90. >> reporter: it took the trump presidency for virginia walsh to go door to door for the first time in her life. >> i think we're in danger of losing our democracy, our elections and our accept presup prelimina supreme court. protests on capitol hill. now democrats across the country are channelling that energy to

fuel their campaigns. hoping to capitalize on a 12-point advantage among voter whose want their party to control congress, even in traditionally red states like nebraska. >> after the presidential election, it seemed like we would be willing to except outsiders and that maybe anybody could win a seat. >> reporter: incliuding you. >> including me. >> reporter: the lifelong social worker already beat a former democratic congressman in her primary. >> i'm tired of hearing that democrats don't have a become bone, that we don't stand for anything. >> reporter: eastman got national attention by running on a medicare for all platform to beat the moderate democratic primary this spring. now she is looking to take down the republican incumbent don bacon who won the 2016 race by just 1% point. >> we knocked on 130,000 doors. we're going to do the same this time. there is energy on the other side. folks do not want to go to a more socialist background. this is what we're talking

about, democratic social li. >> reporter: the 2018 race is welcome renewed energy on the left. c new activist and operatives are trying to overcome that deficit. >> there is no question that democrats have enthusiasm. >> reporter: courtney alexander is with the congressional leadership fund, the super pac backed by paul ryan. >> the biggest thing we can do is get our message out and talk to voters what republicans are doing on they are by half for their community and that's what we're doing here. >> reporter: phone calls and door knocking. >> phone calls, door knocking. >> reporter: the group raised nearly $100 million spending much of it on the air waves, online and on the ground. opening field offices in 40 closely watched congressional districts over the last two years. but in the closing days of the election, the republican cavalry be enough to beat democrats' intensity? >> i feel like now it's a pivotal moment in american history and american politics.

what it shows us is that people are looking for a representative that is going to represent them. >> so john harwood, my main question, how real do we think this wave is and does what we saw play out this week actually really energize republicans? >> i think all of the political strategists that i talked to about this including some this evening before coming over to the studio have said they expect there will be some effect but don't know what it is yet. they have measuring and waiting for polls through the weekend. there is a fear on the democratic side that certain parts of the republican constituency will keep closing the gap that we showed in our nbc "wall street journal" poll for people like heidi in north carolina. she's got a difficult race. she's the most likely of the democratic inducumbents to lose and you got a very significant wave in house elections favoring the democrats and there have

been -- there was one survey morning consult survey over the weekend that showed if people who pay the closest attention to the kavanaugh hearings, those were more likely to vote democrat. so we don't really know exactly how it's going to translate. >> all right. doris kern goodwin, thank you so much for being here tonight. come back any time. we'd love to have you. when we come back, senator elizabeth warren opens the door to running in 2020 and an unusually reflective president trump. back after this. >> if for some reason i didn't win, every media outlet goes bankrupt. can you imagine? can you imagine if they had to cover crazy bernie? who is going to watch? the only thing i worry about is some total unknown that nobody heard of comes along. unknown ty heard of comes along now your insurance won't replace it outright because of depreciation. if your insurance won't replace your car, what good is it?

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i am not running for president of the united states, i'm running for the united states senate 2018, massachusetts. >> i'm not running for president. >> there is nothing that could change your mind? >> david, like i said, i'm not running for president. >> i am not running for president in 2020. i'm running for the senate in 2018. actually, i'm going to make this pitch. its is really important we focus on midterm elections and stop acting like the only important shiny object in the room is 2020. >> that was then. this is now. over the weekend, senator

elizabeth warren let the door open just i think more than a little to be honest. >> it's time for women to go to washington and fix our broken government and that includes a woman at the top. so here is what i promise. after november 6th, i will take a hard look at running for president. [ cheers ] >> okay. who wants to take this one? >> it's a wide open door. >> that's not a cracked door. >> she is running. >> obviously. >> period. and you know, she even in that interview with chuck in march, she gave away the game with the woo hoo like yeah, i'm running for the senate but not that big a deal and she did the woo hoo thing and the insult. when i interviewed her in late

august, she dropped that and was more leaving the assumption into things she was saying. i think this is an increate mental process and she's ready to go. >> we know she's been reaching out to the right people and making connections. the way she purchased reporters on capitol hill changed and used to run away from us and now you can get her to stop in the hallway. >> which is unheard of. she would run away and be with her head down and avoiding you. as a capitol reporter, i ran after her. people talking about running for 2020 and camilka harris, the rey don't like talking about 2020 is they don't want to be seen as politically motivated. a lot of these senators are smart to say i don't want to talk about 2020 because i want you to see me for my record. that said, of course i'm running for 2020. >> i feel like people see right through that. don't you think, greg?

transparent. >> she's running and she's not going to be the only woman running. she's not going to be the only woman senator running. amy klobuchar if you look for a change in tone, she advanced the democrat's position in the supreme court. and intelligent. >> 100%. familiar with people that never heard of her called me and said hey who are is that woman on tv? i'm interested in her. i talked to a lot of sources pr from florida and there are a lot of people looking at her now. >> klobuchar, i like how she handled a nominee putting questions at her when hiit's he job to ask the questions. the "meet the press" film festival is almost sold out.

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the seat's fomger occupant. justice anthony kennedy made a rare public appearance during an event in sacramento to celebrate constitution day, kennedy was careful not to comment on kavanaugh's nomination battle but did offer this analysis on the state of the union. he said perhaps we didn't do too good a job teaching the persons of preserving democracy by an enlightened civic discourse, we're seeing the death and decline of democracy. cheerful. when we return, what to watch for in the week ahead. got directions to the nightclub here.

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is the first call that we've made on the cellular system.

. we have back and forth and then we fell in love. no, really, he wrote me beautiful letters and they're great letters. we fell in love. >> the things we haven't had time it talk about tonight. greg, what are you watching for in the week ahead? >> i'm watching kavanaugh and i'm watching the conservative democrats in the senate. i think if the fbi investigation doesn't yield much new information the republicans are in line and i think there's been a enthusiasm spike amongst republican-leaning voters and it might put pressure on the red state democrats. >> i'm looking at the white house's take on brett kavanaugh. i know a lot of us are going to

be watching kavanaugh. there's a news story by my friend kaitlyn dickerson in the "new york times" who writes about the hundreds of immigrants kids being moved to a tent city in texas and there's no schools, there's very limited access to legal education. so there's all this, i think there's all this stuff that's going on with these young children that is really kind of in some ways being lost at times, so i'm looking at that stuff. >> a good reminder for that story. and john? >> i'm looking at senate races and how senators are reacting to kavanaugh. we'll be in florida for the bill nelson/rick scott race. and in particular looking for the sleeper issue, separate from kavanaugh, his credibility and trustworthiness, there's a danger for him that the idea that he was not straightforward with the judiciary committee is seeping into general acceptance. that could be an independent problem. and i'm looking at susan collins and the pressure that's on her, what she's going to do. we want to thank a couple of our furry viewers, neymar and

dempsey. who are watching kasie d.c. thank you for writing in. adorable. and our producer sends her adorable dog, mabel. that does it for us. we'll be back next week from 7:00 to 9 :00. for now, good night from washington. inside the trump tower meeting is next. it's a very complicated story. and why am i in the middle of it? >> the infamous trump tower meeting, it's consumed washington for more than a year. now, the man who holds the key to how it all happened, shares new details. >> it was a dirty offer that they accepted? >> yes. that is true. >> is the meeting the special counsel's best evidence of possible collusion between the campaign and russia? we go inside the room with a first-hand account. >> suddenly what should have been two people and don