i'm living with secrets and i need to stand up and be bold. that's all for now. thanks for joining us. welcome to "kasie dc." i'm kasie hunt. we're live every sunday from washington from 7:00 to 9:00 eastern. tonight -- the u.s. senate, am i right? just when you think you can't take it anymore, they reel you back in. amid some of the most toxic comments in recent memory, a last-action bipartisan moment to remember. undecideds get another week of breathing room on one of their most difficult votes. plus, the president instructs the fbi to reopen their investigation of brett kavanaugh. but will it go far enough? and we'll hear from attorney michael avenatti who wants his

client, julie swetnick, to be included in the probe. weeks ago, there was hope from republicans that brett kavanaugh would be sitting on the supreme court as its newest justice when the new term begins tomorrow. but today they face a very different reality as the fbi opens a background investigation amid multiple allegations of sexual misconduct against him. the fbi started right away on friday. but as of now, attorneys for dr. christine blasey ford say they haven't been contacted by investigators. another accuser, deborah ramirez, has agreed to cooperate with the investigation. and nbc news reported the white house has limited the scope of that investigation, including a specific witness list that we're told does not include julie swetnick who has alleged that kavanaugh was at a party where she was sexually assaulted in 1982. or former classmates of kavanaugh's who contradict some of his testimony on thursday. president trump tweeted on saturday, quote, nbc news incorrectly reported, as usual,

that i was limiting the fbi investigation of judge kavanaugh and witnesses only to certain people. actually, i want them to interview whoever they deem appropriate at their discretion. please correct your reporting. and here's the president at the white house on saturday. >> will you give the fbi free reign to investigate where they >> they have free rein. they'll do whatever they do. they'll be doing things that we never even thought of. and hopefully at the conclusion, everything will be fine. >> joining us tonight from the supreme court, nbc news justice correspondent pete williams. and with me on set, intelligence and national security reporter ken dilanian. and "new york times" political reporter and msnbc contributor jeremy peters. thank you all for being here. ken dilanian, you've been doing a lot of reporting over the weekend as to how this investigation is or isn't limited. can you help us clear up who is right? the president claims they can

talk to anybody. it's our understanding that's not the case. >> after the president issued that tweet this morning we heard from two sources who said, in fact, nothing had changed. there were strict limits placed on invest investigation by the white house counsel transmitted to the fbi and those limits remain in place. there's a witness list of four and does not include dr. ford which may be why her attorney is saying she hasn't heard from the fbi. it's starting to look like -- on friday, people thought there was going to be an extensive fbi vfigation probing all aspects of kavanaugh's drinking and representations about his yearbook and everything in question. that is not what is happening as far as we can tell. >> how would the investigation -- can you just give us some examples of what they could be doing that they're not allowed to, like perhaps calling the safeway where mark judge worked. >> mark judge has said he worked at a grocery store, a safeway in potomac and dr. ford testified she saw him there. they could verify the records. we're told that's not something they're doing. kavanaugh's characterization of his drinking at yale.

someone said he misrepresented the nature and state of his drinking. that goes to the nature of this sexual misconduct because the allegations are it happened while he was drunk. it's something you'd think the fbi would want to get to the bottom of. it's our understanding that's off limits, as well. >> pete williams, i'm interested to hear from you. you're outside the supreme court looking at this new term where it looks like we'll have four and four, total of eight justices to start out this term. what's your sense from having covered this for a long time of the damage that's already been done to judge kavanaugh and to the court as an institution? i mean, we do still talk about what happened with clarence thomas and if judge kavanaugh is confirmed, what's your sense hough this could or maybe not, could follow him? >> well, it's certainly going to hang over him if he is confirmed, just as in a similar way it's hung over clarence thomas. and i think there could be some

lingering questions about the impartiality of him given the political attack, the nature of the harsh attack on senate democrats and some of that undoubtedly will reflect on the court as well. but these things tend to change over time. in terms of the acceptance by other justices of brett kavanaugh, remember, they know him. he's been a court -- appeals court judge just down the street from here for 12 years. they've reviewed his decisions. they know him. they've read his writings. so, you know, he's going to still have a one vote just like the other justices do if he gets here, and they tend to be very collegial. i just don't know what the effect is. i think for some people it may be a reaffirmation that, a, the confirmation process has become ridiculously political. and secondly, they worry that the court has become political. and we're going to have a situation here now where we're going to have, no matter who gets confirmed by the way, whether it's brett kavanaugh or anyone else, we'll now have five dependably conservative votes,

all appointed by republicans and four dependably liberal to moderate votes, all of those justices appointed by democrats. so i think in the minds of many people who were worried about the institution, including john roberts who has made comments about this, they're worried about that. >> pete, there's been some speculation that if kavanaugh doesn't get confirmed that we might face a situation where there would be a vacancy on the court for the remainder of trump's time in office. either the president would decline to put someone forward that the democrats would get behind or they'd obstruct anyone he puts forward. what's your sense that impact could have on the country long term? >> i find it hard to believe if the kavanaugh nomination for some reason goes down the president wouldn't immediately nominate somebody else because this is -- he said so often this is important to him. you know how important it is to the base politically. so i find that hard to believe.

whether they can get confirmed or not is another story you're better able to handle. after justice anthony kennedy died, the court went over a year with just eight justices. when we have that, we have supreme court light. they tend not to decide the difficult questions, but that was when we didn't -- we had anthony kennedy and they were worried that maybe he would -- pardon me, vote with the liberals. when we have four and four votes and it's a tie vote, then you get these diminished decisions. they try to decide cases on the narrowest possible grounds. so it would -- the court would go on. most of the business of the supreme court is not by close votes but for the high-profile cases, they would probably have to sit out a year or two. >> interesting. jeremy peters, let's talk about the politics of all this for a second because i think one impact that we've started to see emerge, and i feel like this is still shaking out a little bit, but where kavanaugh was important before for the base,

he is now the absolute most important issue. you talked to somebody like joe manchin who maybe was going to get away with voting no to keep his colleagues in the senate happy. he didn't want to make everybody mad but now people at home are sending him a different message about how important this is. >> kavanaugh has become this avatar for conservative grievance. he's -- i wouldn't at all be surprised if you start seeing his face on t-shirts at trump rallies because that primal cry that he issued at his hearing on thursday was exactly what conservative voters wanted to hear. it's exactly what president trump wanted to hear and we know that he was very pleased with what he saw. so there's this pent-up sense of -- the conservatives can't fight back as hard as they'd like to. that they're punished for their political beliefs. they're told they're too politically incorrect -- >> wasn't that the story of donald trump from the beginning? >> exactly. there's this real sense, legitimate or not, that they are

punished more than liberals are. so when you feel that way, when you feel you're constantly being judged or told what you can and cannot say, watching a performance like we saw on thursday from judge kavanaugh is all the affirmation they needed. it's a battle cry and stuck it to the left as far as conservatives are concerned in the same way that donald trump does because as a lot of people smarter than i am have observed, probably the most powerful thing about president trump's appeal with his base is not that he's conservative because he's not. >> because he hasn't been. >> he's anti-left. >> for sure. pete williams, thank you so much for sticking around around your "nightly" live shot to join us. i'm sure we'll have another busy week near washington. thank you. we also mentioned the name julie swetnick earlier who sources tell susnot on the fbi's witness list in the kavanaugh probe. swetnick claims she attended more than ten house parties in the 1980s where she witnessed brett kavanaugh and mark judge engaging in sexual misconduct,

including putting drugs or alcohol in punch so women could be gang raped by male partygoers. we should make clear that swetnick has not accused kavanaugh of committing any crimes against her and kavanaugh has strongly denied all of the allegations. still, swetnick's lawyer michael avenatti has been urging the fbi to investigate while some republican senators have seemed to dismiss the allegations out of hand. >> i'm shocked that our colleagues would embrace this kind of uncorroborated, outrage ow salacious allegation considering the facts and the timing and the representation by stormy daniels' lawyer. >> mr. avenatti's allegations were so scandalous that the ranking member omitted his client's most scandalous accusations of you as a criminal mastermind essentially.

>> you've got people like the one-man circus show, michael avenatti. he is not a serious person, and he is not interested in your future. >> joining me now is the attorney for julie swetnick, michael avenatti. thanks for being on the show. i appreciate it. i want to start kind of why senator sasse left off which is a question i've been hearing from democrats on capitol hill over the course of the past week which is, you have political ambitions. you have not been quiet about those political ambitions. you were just in new hampshire yesterday, i was told. and some democrats have said, if michael avenatti, as a political animal, really cared about making sure that judge kavanaugh wasn't on the bench, he would have sent his client to another lawyer. can you respond to that? >> i am not at liberty to say, but i -- you as well as i know that occasionally information has to be withheld. so -- >> what's interesting --

>> kasie, first of all, i haven't heard that from any democrats. i have yet to hear any democrat go on the record. i just don't believe it. it's a bunch of nonsense. they believe it they should step up and use their name and go on the record. >> go ahead. >> let me finish. i have a 20-year track record. i have over a billion dollars in verdicts and settlements representing hard-working people around thus country. i'm the current trial lawyer of the year from public justice for the entire nation. i got a $454 million jury verdict last year. i'm one of the finest trial lawyers in this country. i've represented one porn star in my 20-year career. i've represented republicans. i've represented democrats. these republicans are going after me and donald trump are going after me for one reason and one reason only. because they see me as a considerable threat. and they should see me as a threat because i am a

considerable threat. now as it relates to my client, my client came to me because i am a very good lawyer. and i represent my clients, and i do a very good job as evidenced by the last 18 years of trial practice and the work that i've done for stormy daniels. i've done an exceptional job. everything that i have promised, i have delivered. i have not been found to make one false representation. i've made prediction after prediction that has come true. my client submitted a sworn declaration from the senate judiciary committee. it's not my declaration. it's not my signature. it's her declaration under oath. >> okay. >> she has multiple security clearances. now ms. ramirez is being interviewed by the fbi. has -- >> that's exactly what i was going to ask you about. has the fbi come to you? have you gone to them? what is the official status of any conversations between you two? >> i can't go to the fbi. at least as it relates to this particular matter.

we have made it known to the senate judiciary committee. i've made it known publicly for a week now. we want an fbi investigation. my client wants to sit down with fbi agents immediately. i've made that clear. i've asked for it repeatedly. we haven't heard from the fbi. this investigation is a scam. it's a sham and it's a con job. and we know that because the white house is controlling who gets spoken to, who gets investigated, and who gets interviewed. how much does it take -- how difficult is it for a couple fbi agents or even one to call me on the phone and ask to speak to my client for an hour or two? that's not a lot of resources. they don't want to talk to my client because they're afraid of what she may say. and if senator cruz and other senators on that panel and donald trump, if they really believe that my client was bogus, that what she said had no basis in reality, you know what they'd be doing?

they'd be begging for the fbi to meet with her so she'd lie to these fbi agents which is a crime, as you know, punishable by prison time. so she would lie to them and they could make an example out of her and they can wipe me off the face of the planet by discrediting me. why don't they want to speak to my client? >> do you have -- are you aware of any people or potential witnesses who were at these parties who can corroborate her story? >> many. many witnesses. i've spoken to many witnesses. i've been clear for the last week that there are corroborating witnesses. we just didn't make this up out of whole cloth. i didn't just reach into the ether and find some woman to sign a false declaration. >> i'm not accusing you of that. >> i know you're not, but others are. and it's offensive. and it's disgusting. and these senators are going after me because they see me as a big threat. and i am a big threat to them. and that's -- and they're afraid of what my client might tell them. and they're afraid of what my client might tell the fbi. we have evidence.

we have facts. we have witnesses. and i don't understand for the life of me how you can call this investigation anything other than a sham and a con job if they are refusing to sit down with my client even for an hour. >> and you don't have any concerns that your client is -- could be better represented by somebody who is less political? >> no, not at all. absolutely not. i do a phenomenal job for my clients and i've done a phenomenal job for the last 18 years. and anyone that looks at the track record of the last six to seven months in the stormy daniels case, i'd challenge anybody to do a better job. i've given countless interviews. check the legal filings and legal work we've done. it's been a-plus. >> let's talk for a second before i let you go about your own political ambitions. where are you in thinking through the process, and quite franck ly frankly, there's a lot of people who want to run for the democratic nomination in 2020? how do you think your potential competitors stack up when taking on the president?

>> i've received an incredible response every state that i've gone to. i think i've surprised a lot of people. i've received a lot of encouragement in various states to run. i've received a lot of enkourngment from the democratic national committee and senior leadership within the committee frankly to run. n people a fighter. and people want somebody that can beat donald trump. i don't care how much experience you have. i don't care how deep you are on policy. if you can't beat president trump, you don't have any business running because if you can't beat donald trump, you go home. >> i want to ask you as well you have proposed a litmus test that includes expanding the supreme court to 11 people. senator amy klobuchar said i'm not going to have michael avenatti tell me what the litmus tests are this election and that you're just trying to make a splash. your response? >> i've been making a splash for six or seven months.

i respect the senator. i'm not trying to tell her what the litmus test is. i'm telling her what i think the litmus test is. and, you know, some of these folks that are going to run for president, where were they when they allowed the garland seat to be stolen from president obama? where were they on that seat? had they done what they needed to do in connection with the garland seat, then there wouldn't be so much angst over this particular seat. >> michael avenatti, thank you so much. i'm very interested to see the um pact you're going to have on this debate. they now see his nomination as too big to fail. and we'll talk about whether the fbi investigation gives undecided senators more cover to vote for brett kavanaugh when all is said and done. plus, is rod rosenstein going to be fired this week? we'll discuss his future and talk about why he was also at the center of the deal to get the fbi to investigate judge kavanaugh. it involves two grown men and a phone booth. we'll explain. "kasie dc" back after this.

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kavanaugh to ask the fbi for a brief focused in scope and time investigation. and i said i would come forward and say that was an important and significant thing for him to do. >> and i want to welcome in my panel. with me on set, capitol hill reporter leigh ann caldwell, jeremy peters who has been here.

the co-founder of the federalist society, president of the club for growth and former republican congressman david mcintosh and co-founder and managing editor of the beat d.c., tiffany cross. thank you all for being here. leigh anne, we've been -- i can't believe we're about to start another week of this. it feels like the last one had barely ended. but i want to focus in on what we saw between flake and coons and how this saul unfolding. it is so rare that we get a chance to see something come of the personal relationships built across the aisle in the senate. used to be something that happened with -- pretty regularly on really big issues. >> that's right. i heard you say that on friday on air. that was so poignant that it was these deep personal relationships. but also, you know, senator flake was confronted by these protesters which had an impact on him. what was really bothering senator flake was the lack of decorum, the complete breakdown of the senate. this was one of the most partisan hear,s we've seen in a long time.

democrats, you know, flake even said this. democrats yelling at republicans. republicans yelling at democrats and vice versa. and ever since he announced his retirement, senator flake has said that he's made it a point in pretty much every floor speech, many of his tweets, statements that something needs to be done that people need to come together in the senate and keep the senate from devolving into pure chaos and becoming the house of representatives. >> and jeremy, somewhat depressing fact of all this is if anything, a lot of the people who are willing to work that way are leaving the senate. we've lost senator john mccain. chris coons has been the subjects of attacks from his own left because he wanted to bring back the filibuster for judicial nominees. >> that's right. you have the increasingly partisan behavior of lindsey graham which surprised an awful lot of people. >> i don't think it surprises anyone if you remember how he was during impeachment, but fair enough. >> right. i guess like mccain did often. which version of him are you getting. >> fair. >> david can speak to this, too.

there were an awful lot of republicans last week who were saying, why didn't we just allow the fbi to look into this in the first place? they thought this was a really stupid self-inflicted error on their part because it didn't -- wouldn't take much and now they're having to go back after the fact, retroactively do this investigation and it's just going to leave more time for the democrats, which we know what they're up to right now to try to find more on kavanaugh to make him less confirmable. to make this more uncomfortable for republicans who do want to vote for him. so how this week is going to end, i have no idea. >> david, you have worked with judge kavanaugh for many years. >> i've known him for a long time and know him very well. where is his thinking right now in all of this? he's been defiant saying that you can go through all of this but take a vote on my nomination. but i'm not going to quit. this is difficult for his family.

>> it's terribly difficult for his family. and i think he shared that very effectively and honestly with the senate committee and the whole nation last thursday. it feels like he's being put through the wrunger of a terribly unfair personal assassination attempt because he's the swing vote on the supreme court and people are predict -- >> you think that's what it's about. >> i think ford was compelling and i don't want to take anything away from her and what she feels happened to her. i kind of agree with lindsey graham's point that the democrats have used her. if they really wanted to get to the bottom of it, they would have had the fbi referral to that which they could do on their own last summer. they could have taken it to the chairman and said let's do it together. so the theater and the way this

is playing out really does look like it's an effort. let's stop this nominee and win the senate and hopefully stop the rest of the trump nominees. one of the former clinton advisers basically told "the new york times," that's the game plan. >> tiffany, what happens next, though, if, in fact, kavanaugh is confirmed? what's the long-term consequences for -- the woman in the elevator who said to jeff flake, you're sending a message to me that what happened to me doesn't matter. >> what senators have to ask themselves is what happens when the other shoe drops. i don't think we'll stop hearing from people who come out and counter some of the things he said in the senate judiciary committee. we've seen "the new york times" is reporting another person who is saying i don't remember or i disagree with how he characterized his time at yale. and if it is theater, to your point, the -- kavanaugh himself wrote, directed and starred in his own drama with some of the behave we saw play out. even if you look at it, this is a job interview. if you were interviewing somebody for a job who spoke that way and behaved that way, is it somebody you'd say, yes,

you deserve a promotion because this privileged temper tantrum you just threw before the entire court. when you put someone on the court who is extremely partisan and showed he's incapable of looking at something through a nonpartisan lens. he's accusing sitting senators of carrying the water for the clintons. this will be a real challenge for senators to get past if they put him on the supreme court. i may be more cynical than you, but i don't give flake this badge of honor for doing this. i think this is someone who has political ambitions. so he's able to successfully get the fbi -- he was able to stop this and get the fbi to conduct an investigation. he has an excuse to vote for this nominee. >> i want to pick up on that point. i wonder if that isn't the dynamic that plays out. we let the fbi investigation. there's nothing additional so now susan collins, lisa murkowski, jeff flake. >> this could give these members cover to vote yes.

it's a lot harder to vote for kavanaugh when there's not been a complete investigation and now we're at the point on, is this going to be a fair investigation? is the fbi going to thoroughly investigate this? yeah, it gives them the opportunity. it makes it easier for them to vote yes. assuming they think that this was done okay. >> and that's the big question is whether or not they can convince people what they're doing is enough. just ahead -- rod rosenstein, due at the white house again. and we now have a kasie dc podcast. features the best of our broadcast. it's perfect if you missed the show or want to listen on your monday commute to work. kasie dc podcast is available wherever you get your podcasts. we'll be right back. (vo) gopi's found a way to keep her receipts tidy,

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i'm talking to him. we've had a good talk. he said he never said it. he said he doesn't believe it. he said he has a lot of respect for me. and he was very nice, and we'll see. and he's a member of the trump administration. in that sense. it's the justice department. i would much prefer keeping rod rosenstein, much prefer. many people say i have the right to absolutely fire him. he said he did not say it. he said he does not believe

that, and nobody in this room believes it. >> after a tumultuous two weeks, even by his standards, rod rosenstein is slated to meet face-to-face with some of his harshest critics, house republicans and even the president this week. ken dilanian is back. this was to happen on thursday. rosenstein was on the phone with jeff flake and chris coons according to some of the "new york times" reporting trying to explain how long an fbi investigation would take. but what is the state of play with him with this white house. is he really in danger? >> i don't think so anymore. i think the president has become convinced by his advisers that firing rosenstein would be a horrible mistake before the midterms and doesn't get them anyone. it's not going to make the mueller investigation go away. he'd have to fire the entire justice department and fbi to make that happen. it's going to -- it would cause huge backlash among democrats and in congress. and, you know, there's every indication to believe that nothing much is going to happen in the mueller investigation between now and the election for

reasons of justice department guidelines. so he's going to accept rosenstein's story that he offered to wear a wire in jest. he was being sarcastic and never talked about invoking the 25th amendment. >> what do you want me to do, wear a wire? >> even though the times has sources saying otherwise. >> i've had some republicans defend rosenstein to me saying that he's sort of different from some of the other characters that have become -- that they've villainized. >> he's been around for long enough. people know him in washington. he has good relationships with people on the hill. i think there are probably times when trump would love nothing more. to do that before the midterms, you think the left is angry now, just wait until they confirm kavanaugh, assuming they'll be able to confirm him. if trump came along and did something like that, that's basically hands controlling

congress to the democrats. >> it would probably distract from the current project which is get judging kavanaugh on the bench. >> totally. and it was a little baste distraction last week. would he be fired or not? i think rod rosenstein is walking, you know, by definition, a very tight wire. he does have conservatives angry at him because he is holding back documents they feel they have every right to get. and i think they're right. on the other hand, i don't think he's misguiding this whole investigation. the one thing that he should do is actually enforce the justice department policy on leaks. and i know that won't be popular in the media, but he should just put down the rule. anybody who is caught leaking is going to be fired and taken off of this investigation because we need to go about it in an orderly, professional manner. >> i will say, i don't think bob mueller is leaking. ken dilanian would know better than i. >> somebody leaked this whole

conversation about him who probably had the objective to get trump to fire him. and so you've got to say who did that? who is leaking the things -- there's always a leak before mueller announces something. who is doing that? probably not bob mueller but there are a lot of people work ing with him. still to come, one country, two very different takes on thursday's testimony. today is the day you're going to get motivated...

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i was in a hurry to try to get the information forward but didn't quite know how to do that. however, once he was selected and it seemed like he was popular and it was a sure vote, i was calculating daily the risk/benefit for me of coming forward, and wondering whether i would just be jumping in front of a train that was headed to where it was headed anyway and that i would just be personally annihilated. >> i want to read from a long section of alexander petree's piece in "the washington post." she's usually a humor columnist. the last couple have not been that way. she writes it's painful to watch a woman caught and torn in the years of a man's progress. to watch the meaning of her name change to a thing that happened to her once. to watch the first sentence of her obituary get rewritten to watch her name be linked to this man, anita accuser of clarence, christine, accuser of brett.

all she asks is for the train to stop. these trains move very fast. we must not ask why. maybe the train will stop for a week. that seems fair. a week just to make sure, a week to take this seriously at a gentleman's request. women are used to squinting to see our own stories and the stories of others to reading ourselves into the words all men are created equal to being the thing tied to the tracks to raise the stakes. i am so tired of the moment when you discover how little your weight counts against the trains. and tiffany, this was a theme we heard or i heard over and over again from the women who came to capitol hill this week and who were -- some of them telling their stories for the very first time. >> yeah. i think the nation paused. i remember watching anita hill testify and being mesmerized by this woman on television telling her story. and it felt very surreal being here again in 2018. and i thought when you saw those

two women confront senator flake in the elevator, it really showed that the powerful don't drive the people but the people just drive the powerful. and i think when you juxtapose the two testimonies we heard between dr. ford and judge kavanaugh, you really saw a difference in who they were and how they approach things. and even her disposition. and we can take a break if it's okay with you or, yes, if you don't mind, i'd like coffee. always trying to appease and apologizing for your very existence being there. so i completely understood that position as a woman and knowing what it feels like to be the only and demanding your space and owning your own territory. so it was a surreal experience to watch. >> david, can i ask you -- one thing that's changed recently is the end of the filibuster for the supreme court. quite frankly, we would not be here, judge kavanaugh would not have had to go through that hearing if that existed. and the point she makes is this is a man who is asking for the pinnacle of his career, right? this is not somebody who has

had, you know, he's had a very privileged life. what do you say to women who don't understand why he might still deserve to be on the highest court in the land after what we heard from dr. ford? >> well, and let me say this. while i disagree with tiffany about him, i think he's a gentleman and is fighting for his career at this point, but to women about dr. ford, that's something that i noticed both republicans and democrats agreed that she was a very sympathetic person. >> trump even said that. >> and they approach it differently. tiffany has articulated the way the folks who don't think kavanaugh should get it feel. my wife and other women that i know, including some very liberal women, think she was used in all of this and feel -- and were outraged about that. that something that she wanted to keep very private, something clearly happened to her, that wasn't honored.

so i think the lesson from all of this, hopefully, will be we have to respect women and we have to acknowledge women and my wife says virtually every woman in the workplace experiences this. i believe her. we have to acknowledge that, but we also have to respect their desire for how public they want to be with that. >> right. speaking of going public, kellyanne conway on cnn this morning spoke about her own personal experience with this. take a look. >> i feel very empathetic for victims of sexual assault and sexual harassment and rape. that -- i am a victim of sexual assault. i don't expect judge kavanaugh or jake tapper or jeff flake or anybody to be held responsible for that. you have to be responsible for your own conduct. let's just be honest what this is about. it's raw partisan politics. all women can't -- i want those women who were sexually assaulted who were confronting jeff flake, god bless them, but

go blame the perpetrator. >> i have been wondering why the president was being so measured in how he talked about this. and kellyanne conway went out when this first happened and said we need to hear from this woman. i thought it was remarkable she was willing to say that in public. >> yeah, and when i -- just minutes before the president put out his first tweet kind of attacking dr. ford, moments before, kellyanne conway said, i don't need to tell him what to do. he knows the right thing to do, and then this happened. she's a very dominating force in this white house. i think the president still listens to her n maybe -- i don't know this, but maybe she relayed that experience to him or tried to get him to understand that dr. ford should be heard. and he stuck with that for a couple days, but now he's back on the campaign trail making this an issue on the campaign trail which republicans hope this will motivate the base. >> he's been this curious kind of side figure in this discussion.

yes, there have been times -- >> it's the first time we're covering a non-trump story in nearly a year. >> that's why people, regardless of where you come down on kavanaugh find this so troubling because it says something deep ber what's broken in our country than trump. for so long we've been used to blaming our national embarrassments, if you're so inclined otrump. and this is clearly about something else. >> jeremy peters, leigh ann caldwell, thank you. our weekly segment, women to washington and how this could animate the midterm elections. h. i found my tresiba® reason. now i'm doing more to lower my a1c. i take tresiba® once a day. tresiba® controls blood sugar for 24 hours for powerful a1c reduction. (woman) we'd been counting down to his retirement. it was our tresiba® reason. he needs insulin to control his high blood sugar

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the latest gallup poll shows a major divergence between men and women. 60% of men approve versus 43% of women. a 17 point gender gap. at the same time last year it was nearly even. we're seeing a historic wave of women running and waiting to see how this moment will impact the future candidates. joining me now is a former ms.

american and congressional candidate for alabama's third district. mallory hagan. i want to start by asking you're running in tough territory. why do you think you have a shot at winning? >> well, i think the thing people are craving is authenticity and for the state of alabama, jones pulled out a historic win. we seen democrats really energized since then. so between those democratic parties that are forming and every county across our state and the amount of college campuses that we have where we see young people get engaged, there is a real shot here. >> what is your take on what we saw play out in washington over the course of the last week, do you think at this point judge kavanaugh should serve on the supreme court. >> as a woman as a survivor of sexual assault, i first and foremost think it's important to acknowledge women across the

country and around the globe have been reliving their trama this past week. i commend dr. ford and i'm really concerned about the rhetoric we're seeing involving sexual assault but what i think is that the american people deserve due diligence. at the end of the day, we deserve for someone to sit on the bench that is fair and just so i think investigating to the fullest extent of these allegations is what is most important. >> do you think that republicans have been discounting dr. ford in a way that makes you uncomfortable and i do appreciate you sharing with our viewers your own story. >> you know, i think that all of this is political bargaining tools and we have created a mockery of this situation and a way that is unfair to both dr. ford and frankly judge kavanaugh. there is room for this conversation and i think that we should be having it but i think that we saw a lot of egos on both sides of the isles and i hope we can come to a conclusion best for the people of america.

>> what do you think the fbi should be looking into? you know the scope of the investigation is pretty sharply limited to just a hand full of people. do you think that the fbi should be able to follow leads and interview anyone they might be interested in? >> absolutely. the fbi is supposed to be an independent organization. having parameters set for them limits their ability to do their job, absolutely. >> so i have to ask you as we

♪ we are counting down to friday as the fbi undertakes a week-long investigation into the sexual misconduct allegations against brett kavanagh. this morning, democrats are demanding more information about the scope of the probe. plus, breaking overnight, after a weekend of frantic talks, the u.s. and canada have reached a last-minute deal to salvage nafta. in indonesia, the death toll has hit more than 800 after a tsunami. rescuers are digging through rubble, hoping to find survivors. ♪