"deadline white house" with nicolle wallace starts right now. hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. the fbi background investigation into judge brett kavanaugh is being wrapped up as we speak. republican senators telling nbc news that they are expecting the fbi to deliver summaries of those interviews later today and that they are expecting to hold the first vote on his confirmation on friday. with five key senators still up in the air. the outcome of any vote is far from certain. and the president earned a rebuke from many of those undecided members with his galling attack on kavanaugh's accu accuser, professor christine blasey ford at a political rally last night. >> what he's going through -- 36 years ago, this happened. i had one beer, right? i had one beer. well, you think it was -- no. it was one beer. >> oh, good. >> how did you get home? i don't remember. how did you get there? i don't remember.

how many years ago? i don't know. i don't know. i don't know. what neighborhood was it? i don't know. where's the house? i don't know. upstairs, downstairs, where was it? i don't know, but i had one beer. >> here's how that played with three key republicans. >> well, i've -- there's no time and no place for remarks like that. to discuss something this sensitive at a political rally is just not right. it's just not right. i wish he hadn't have done it. just say it's kind of appalling. >> the president's comments were just plain wrong. >> and earlier, senate murkowski -- >> i don't approve of the comments from last night. i thought that they were wrong, and extraordinarily unfortunate. >> does that influence maybe how you'll vote in any way, senator? >> i have confirmed that i am going -- i asked for the fbi to

reopen, and i'm going to evaluate that when i have a chance to see it. >> reporter: so that's just a few moments ago, but earlier, senator murkowski had suggested she'd take trump's comments into account when deciding whether to vote to confirm kavanaugh. questions remain at this hour about the limited scope of the fbi investigation that could become the deciding factor for those senators on the fence. especially in light of new reporting from nbc news about the dozens of potential sources who have been excluded. more than 40 people with potential information into the sexual misconduct allegations against supreme court nominee brett kavanaugh have not been contacted by the fbi. according to multiple sources that include friends of both the nominee and his accusers. "the washington post" reports on some situational awareness about that at the bureau. quote, one political consideration looms large. according to people familiar with fbi and administration

deliberations. if the democrats win control of the house in november, lawmakers could launch investigations into exactly what white house and bureau officials said internally about the kavanaugh matter. here to discuss the day's developments, at the table, jason johnson, politics editor for the root. elise jordan, former aide in the george w. bush white house and state department and co-host of the podcast "words matter." peter baker, frank figliuzzi and nbc's garrett haake is standing by on capitol hill. garrett, you just brought us that new sound from lisa murkowski. take us through the state of play for these swing senate voters. >> it's really all about this fbi report. these three really key, i think, key republican votes on here. no democrat wants to be the vote that puts kavanaugh over the top and they're all waiting on this report. susan collins has been the most open about her decision-making

process. she's very interested in hearing what mark judge has to say. jeff flake is the point man on this. he pushed for this one week-long investigation in the first place. and lisa murkowski is almost famous on capitol hill for keeping her decision-making process incredibly close to the vest. she said in that interview that she is frustrated by the way the white house has handled it but wouldn't go so far as to say it's going to affect her decision. she's still talking to a lot of folks about this. still taking into account the fact her governor in alaska has urged her to vote no on kavanaugh. there are a lot of moving parts and, really, we're sort of this mushy period. until that report lands on capitol hill and these senators can go in and view it there's just not a lot that can be said about how those folks are going to make their decisions. they want to get into a room and start leafing through that report and be able to make their choices. >> garrett, is the report -- is the gathering of information complete? are they simply compiling those reports? i think they're called 302s and

getting in the process of sending them to the senate and white house? >> that's sort of outside my skating lane here. i don't know what stage the report is in. i talked to three different senators on the judiciary committee over the last hour. some democrats, some republicans. and none of them know exactly the stage that this report is in. they all have their own sources. they're all hearing from different people that they've gone beyond -- the fbi has gone beyond talking to those original four witnesses they wanted to. but the question of how far beyond and where they are and putting together a report, remember, the fbi has said and everyone involved in this has said the fbi won't draw a conclusion. they'll present all the evidence that they have. so we don't know if that report is going to be a summary or if the fbi is going to drop 60 pages of interview notes and call it a day. we're entirely de pendeant on te fbi to move it forward. >> is there any sense the president tainted that investigation? the white house has been heavily involved in directing the fbi toward witnesses that should be included by basically coming out

at a rally last night and impugning the account of the alleged victim? >> you heard it from those senators. it sure didn't help. if you look at somebody like jeff flake. flake came out and said he was a yes on kavanaugh before he walked it back and said he wanted this investigation. that's somebody who really wants to support brett kavanaugh. if he can get to a place where he feels comfortable with him, as not being guilty of the things he's accused of, first of all, but secondarily, of not being overly politicized. all of these senators are people who are fans of the traditional process, the traditional order up here in the senate, and they don't like to see this kind of thing in terms of the president making this pick so political. and making it a stump speech applause line. i don't know that it fundamentally changes their votes but it doesn't help. it doesn't help the argument in jeff flake's head where he wants to make this a choice that's good for the senate, good for the country. not just good because ultimately

he agrees with a lot of kavanaugh's positions as a judge. >> any consternation about donald trump attacking christine blasey ford last night in such a crude manner? >> oh, plenty of consternation, not just from those three senators but even on fox and friends, the president's favorite show they said that he thought -- they thought that was a mistake. senator lindsey graham, no stronger supporter than lindsey graham. he wished the president would knock it off. this is exactly why the republican senators and advisers of the president told him not to do exactly this. they didn't want him to inflame the situation. it was okay to blame democrats for politically exploiting the situation. okay to defend judge kavanaugh as a man of integrity, but was not supposed to be a direct attack on his accuser dr. christine blasey ford, especially since it was the president himself who just last week said she was a very credible witness. something happened, obviously, at that rally where he decided he wasn't going to play by those rules anymore. he got into the crowd.

he got cheers. he got a lot of applause. and it became, you know, went back to his first instinct. they're always to attack back. >> frank figliuzzi, i think there's another way of looking at donald trump. he's hard wired to never believe a victim of sexual assault. he's hard -- his hard wiring has been on display through the roy moore allegations, through his own more than a dozen people who have accused him of misconduct. so his hard wiring simply showed its ugly head last night. how does that impact the men and women of the fbi who are trying to present a background check with integrity. when the person atop the chain of command of the federal government is lambasting the alleged victim's credibility and account? >> so, nicolle, what i'm hearing and sensing is increasing frustration within the ranks of the bureau as to what they're being permitted to do and not do. you mentioned an investigation with integrity. an investigation that is

dictated to you by a politician is not necessarily an investigation with integrity. i'm not even holding out hope for that at this point. but let me engage in a bit of predictive analysis. here's how i read the president's attack last night coupled with the great confidence of republican senate leadership saying they're going to vote on friday. this is how this works, in my experience with reopening of an investigation based on derogatory information. your client is the white house. i have received derogatory information before. like this. you are feeding your client in realtime the results of your interviews. so what i am surmising here is that the president has, in realtime, the interview results. this has emboldened him last night to change his tune to start attacking dr. ford based on what he's hearing in his briefings on the results. and he's passing that on to the senate who similarly is feeling emboldened to say, we're going to do this. we're going to do it on friday. i am -- i hope i'm wrong, but i

fear i'm not. >> frank figliuzzi, you are not often wrong. let me ask you if the fbi would have had the time to also investigation what jeff flake has been talking about, really, since sunday night in his "60 minutes" interview. questions about honesty, a lack of candor in law enforcement and in the white house. if you've lied on a background check, lied under oath, that is as damning as anything dredged up in your past. let me play jeff flake today and ask you how the fbi was able to investigate anything that judge kavanaugh said in his testimony thursday in the short time they've had. let's watch first. >> well, that's, obviously, difficult to judge what constitutes drinking in excess. i'm not sure how to quite judge that. especially for this mormon. that's a tough one for me to judge that. but, obviously, if they are demonstrable lies, if something is blatantly, if he misled the

committee in that way, then that's something that is not right and shouldn't happen, can't happen. but we'll have to look at what the fbi comes back with. i don't want to prejudge what they're doing. >> frank, my question is, will they have had time to analyze his answers to questions about references in his yearbook, a devil's triangle. will they have had time to interview his peers from that era and try to determine whether he was being truthful in his testimony? >> one week would have been enough time. are they doing it? i don't see any indication of that. all reports are that lying before congress, excessive drinking are not on the table. not being permitted by the white house. so now we're left to whether the senate is going to feel the investigation is sufficient. but in terms of actual investigation, i would not count on that. >> what do you think? >> i thought when jeff flake made his announcement last week that justice didn't have a time

line. in the moment they said you have to have this done in a week and we'll dictate who you're talking, to i always knew this was going to be a sham. what's more important, and frank may be right. they may be operating off getting inside information. what's going to be most compelling is whether or not this report goes public because the senate may be able to look at it and say we can bypass this, bypass that. but if these interviews show behavior or if mark judge says some crazy things or other things that come out that are offensive to the body of politic and the senate feels pressure because she's have become public, that could again put kavanaugh in a dangerous position of not passing. but if this doesn't go public, he's going to get confirmed. >> let me bring garrett back in. let me play senator corker on that question of making the fbi report public and get you to drill down on that for us. let's watch. we don't have that. but senator corker earlier today said that he thought that whatever the fbi has generated should be public. i think we have it now. >> i suggested that, you know, i know what's going to happen with

all of this. i mean, the two sides are going to, unfortunately, leak out the parts that benefit their side of the argument. and if there was some way for us to be able to present this to the public, i just think it would be helpful to everyone. i think it would help you, more importantly, again, i think it would help the american people know that there was a real background check that took place and what came out of it. >> garrett? >> yeah, so i talked to a couple judiciary committee staffers about how this would normally work and how it might work in this particular case. the rules of the road here are such that that report, whatever the fbi comes up with, would be brought here eventually to the senate judiciary committee. and there would be one physical copy of it on paper. senators would have to come in and review with no staff in the judiciary office or judiciary staff could bring it to the senators in their offices where they'd review it, again, without any of their staff present. you'd really just have 100 sets

of eyes this to report and, as senator corker suggests, the risk that then creates is a whole bunch of leaks from both sides and it would have to come directly from senators or second hand through folks they tell about what's in it. that's by agreement with the white house. and it's apparently a longstanding practice here. but there are a number of republican senators, corker, including john cornyn, the number two republican who said we've got to find some way to make some part of this public. for exactly this reason. the entire country is essentially sitting around waiting for the delivery of this fbi homework assignment here and to have 100 senators be the only one to see it is not going to be satisfactory really for anybody on either side at this point. >> elise, the president in his unbridled, grotesque attack on professor ford revealed -- that was a spoiler alert, right? the president didn't believe her. he doesn't believe her. he never believed her. he was lying when he said she should be heard. he was lying when he said she should be respected. and he was lying when they all

leaked out all these accounts that while she testified he was really nervous about the kavanaugh confirmation. if he believed what he said last night and the people that were laughing behind him, we saw your faces. if he believed a woman accusing someone of sexual assault is a liar and didn't believe her account, why go through all the shenanigans? this whole thing as you said was a sham. >> it's been interesting to watch donald trump show a little bit of restraint until last night. it was totally fake. >> why do we give him credit? he was putting a lid on the most grotesque impulses we know are there. >> it shows he has self-control if he wants to. it shows that he does know right from wrong if he wants to. and it shows that if he thinks something is politically advantageous, he doesn't mind doing the wrong thing at all. my family is from about an hour where that rally was held last night. and my mother pointed out, you

know, i thought he was here to campaign for the senate candidate cindy hyde smith but, oh, no, he has to go as low as he can possibly go and i would also point out that when donald trump is in the deep south, he also demonstrates the very worst of his impulses and shows what he sees as what the audiences in the deep south want. and it's horrible for everyone. he's bringing out the worst in everyone. >> where do you think the kavanaugh nomination stands right now? >> i think it's going to depend on three key senators. and that interview with lisa murkowski was telling. she did not seem like a senator who was firm that she was going one way or the other. she really seemed tortured about her decision. and then bob corker just then also seemed like he was really being contemplative and serious about how we were going to do this in a way that just doesn't tear the country apart because these past two weeks have been pretty bad in terms of the

rancor and the country's division has been openly exposed in a way that isn't all just about donald trump. and i think that they are smart senators who understand that now is a moment to lead and they understand that this isn't about just a vote. that this is a big moment for the country. >> garrett, let me get you to weigh in and give us a final thought. are they going to rise to that moment or are they going to bend to pressure from the white house and what they view as a bridge to make it easier to vote for kavanaugh, a three-day extended background investigation? >> i think all three of these republican senators and the two democrats on the fence, probably wanted for their own political reasons to vote yet on brett kavanaugh. and they need this fbi investigation for that end to come back with nothing in it. every day this goes on makes it harder and harder to get them to yes and the president made that harder last night. >> garrett, thank you so much for spending some time with us and for all your great

reporting. still ahead -- trump the tax evader may be in trouble with the state of new york after yesterday's bombshell report about his family's decades of tax fraud. and special counsel robert mueller ensuring that his probe will continue despite trump's nearly daily attacks. or is he downsizing? all those stories still coming up. (burke) fender-biter.

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the tactic of the president laying low has been lauded by all sides. last night, he chose to blow it as the fbi is handing in the report as early as today. i wonder about the wisdom, as much as the crowd loved it, i wonder about the wisdom tactically of him doing that.

>> and when you've lost fox news, you're bleeped. even fox news there taking issue with the president's extended attack last night on dr. christine blasey ford. joining us now, veteran columnist -- i didn't write it. i would have said dashing upstart mike. what do you think? >> the trump tax story might be my favorite. >> we're going to get to that. what do you think about fox news. >> oh, you mean, when they turn on you? you screwed up then. no, no, no. when -- there is even the mildest hint of criticism on fox news, then i don't know if -- >> especially this program. "fox & friends" is like the ultimate safe zone. >> when he goes there, they have to take him in. so it's a big, soft place for

him to land. and -- but you're right. every adjective you've used about last night. i am watching that last night, as much of it as i could take, and i was thinking, no, a year after me too, he is giving a speech like #nothim. like he thinks that he started a new movement for young men who have to worry about this. no, they're fine as long as they don't act like slobs. >> peter baker, this is a real thing. i talked to a close trump ally who said this he too movement or whatever you want to call it is really bringing back the enthusiasm to the trump base. that they were feeling like the house may be gone. the senate, too. this may swing the senate back into gop control if he can agitate and excite and enthuse the male vote. >> well, look, what president trump is trying to do is to frame this as part of his larger campaign against the establishment. he doesn't want to make it necessarily a he said, she said.

he wants to make it us against them. and the establishment, you know, in this case, the democrats, are exploiting this situation for political gain. they're going after him because they'll go after you. and they will go after all of us unless we stand up to them. that's the message in effect. he's conveying to his base. and it obviously has a certain receptivity among the audience, among the people who have rallied behind him on this drain the swamp message of his. at least some people are seeing it through that lens. this is about, you know, a corrupt political establishment trying to maintain power, not about a woman who is alleging a sexual assault against a man who might be on the supreme court. >> let me show you kellyanne conway's description of professor ford today as a faberge egg. >> she's been treated like a faberge egg by all of us begin with me and the president. he's pointing out factual inconsistencies. do you have corroboration for her claims? can you fill in her memory gaps? her factual inconsistencies?

that's part of the evidence gathering process in any hunt for the truth. >> doesn't sound like an evidence gathering process. it sounds like a smear campaign and a midterm strategy to garner white male rage. >> everyone is talking about mccarthyism and unfair process but what you heard and what kellyanne conway said it there was a strategy. the strategy was to treat her like a faberge egg. do not do to her what was done to anita hill. there was a perception that would cause a backlash in the senate. whether it causes a backlash among voters will be tested november 6th. what the president and his allies are gamble with the switch in approach he demonstrated on tuesday night is that it's better to galvanize the base at the risk of losing moderate, particularly suburban women who otherwise, you know, might not have been with him anyway. and to gin up turnout of people who could be for him by giving

them a motivation. that motivation is the democrats are out to mess with us and you need to stop them. >> frank, what's so corrupt about this conversation that the white house is trying to have is they want it both ways. kellyanne conway wants to get credit in those comments begin with us, beginning with me and the president, we treated her like a faberge egg and laying it on anybody that gave her credibility and wanted an fbi investigation. i think everybody can look at this process and say that brett kavanaugh was most ill served by the white house. refusing to demand an fbi investigation on the very same day professor ford did. it seems like the fork in the road if this goes up in flames is on the white house. and on the white house in coming second in asking for an rfbi investigation. coming in behind professor ford. but don't take my word for it. the fbi should go investigate me. she said that to "the washington post" two weeks ago. she was two weeks ahead of the

kavanaugh side and the white house in calling for someone, some neutral institution like the fbi to investigate her account. >> the fbi investigations exonerate people as much, if not more so, than they implicate people. that's what they do. they identify the facts and report the facts. so you want the fbi on your side if you are innocent. and they'll be your worst enemy if you're guilty. i've got to tell you. i just got a dose of that white male rage having heard kellyanne's comments for the first time. she's using the phrase factual inconsistencies with regard to dr. ford's statement. i didn't see any factual inconsistencies. i saw gaps that needed to be filled in by the fbi investigation that simply aren't going to get filled in. that's what i saw. >> that rally last night was a low point in this administration. and anything associated with that rally last night should be wiped from her body politic.

it reminded me, that old movie "the accused" and the people who cheered as the violence was going on. he was repeating and mocking a sexual assault and grown adult people cheered and laughed behind him. i think that the president, i think that anyone who thinks about doing something that would support this president in regards to the supreme court should back off. should step away. should vote no. this is an embarrassment. there are other qualified conservatives throughout. to die on this hill for a man accused of this behavior and a president who supports this kind of behavior is an embarrassment. >> you're bursting. >> no, this base galvanizing. how much more galvanizing do they have to do with this base? if he had galvanized them more last night, they would have invaded louisiana. and, you know, we expect a certain level of behavior when he's in his element and he's tra talking to all the whos in

whoville. he proskrcrossed a line last ni. i am wondering if he's made some calculation that it might help him if kavanaugh doesn't get confirmed. >> i certainly think it could help donald trump because he's a victim. that's his number one message is about his own victimhood and the elites did this to me. this is what they're trying to do to you. they're out to get you. so, yes, i do think he may not be brett kavanaugh's best friend right now because he's blowing up the strategy to get him on the court. >> peter baker, thank you for spending time with us. we're grateful. donald trump, the toddler millionaire. how the millions he inherited from his father blow up a central pillar of his image. turns out he's not self-made at all. to most, he's phil mickelson, pro golfer.

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the law and order president may be on the doorstep of a very serious legal battle in new york. a state tax agency says it's reviewing some of the allegations made in yesterday's "new york times" investigative report, the one about the trump family's finances. dubious tax schemes and potential fraud. nbc news has not independently seen the documents and has not confirmed their reporting but just this afternoon, mayor bill de blasio told reporters that the city of new york will also look to recoup any unpaid taxes. statements from the white house and trump's lawyers refuted this story yesterday and then today, trump pushed back himself on twitter writing the failing "new york times" did something i've never seen done before. they used the concept of time value of money in doing a very old boring and often told hit piece on me. added up, this means 97% of their stories on me are bad. never recover from bad election call.

oh, we all recovered. but there's another important thing to remember, the trump brand is based on the idea that trump earned all his money himself like a big boy. and on that topic, "the new york times" editorial board rights mr. trump's willingness to bend the truth and the rules in the service of his myth looks less like innocent exaggeration than malicious deception with a dollop of corruption tossed in. it's not the golden glittering success story. it's shaping up to be something far darker. joining us, two people who know more than anyone should have to about trump family finances from "the washington post," political reporter david farenthold and tim o'brien, bloomberg executive editor. i follow you on twitter and saw your tweets. i read all 38 pages. we had one of the reporters on. i am going to get through this all. it was excruciatingly detailed and i imagine you're more familiar with this than i am, but take me through the depth and breadth of the lie donald trump sold on the american people in the 2016 presidential

campaign. >> well, it didn't just begin in that presidential campaign. it was a story he'd been telling about himself since the '70s. that he was a self-made millionaire, billionaire. his father had been rich, sure, but donald trump always portrayed himself as having started out with a loan from his father but in a separate business and besides that original loan it was all his. his hard work, insight, great brain and the times story shows that's not true. if donald trump had just taken the money from his father and put it in a bank account and put it in the stock market, he might have done better than using his father's money to make these investmen investments. often not only was all the money coming in to president trump from his father, president trump's own actions often caused him to lose some of that money and to need to be bailed out again by his father. the whole idea he'd separated himself from his father at an early age and made himself into atered by

this story. >> the infusions of cash were often bailouts. that the role, the relationship was often the father as a safety net financially for donald trump's failures. it made not just his wealth a lie. it made the idea that he sold himself as successful at business an even bigger lie. >> that's what struck me, too. donald trump, as you said, not only was he not out there making huge hay out of this small investment his father had given him. he was losing that money and coming into crises where he needed his father to step in and infuse cash into his casinos in atlantic city, new jersey, or buy a share of one of his buildings in manhattan. kind of always this father off stage willing to put his own money into his son to prop up his son. in some cases, it appears from the times story violating tax law in the process. >> tim, you and david barstow and his colleagues credit those

of you who have looked at his finances and make clear they're building on this body of information, but take me through the potential criminality in what they've uncovered. >> i think there's nonecessarily big criminal risk for him here. a lot of time has passed. there's probably civil penalties he's going to get. i think it's going to be really hard for new york state tax investigators to go back and re-create the fact pattern here. the appraiser that they used to low ball all these buildings so they could pay fewer taxes on them when they transferred them. i don't have my paperwork anymore. they'll not be able to do anything about that. but absent legal pain, this is one of donald trump's biggest fears. reputational pain. and he's always been a guy who has started out on third base and said i hit a triple and he's been saying this for decades. the reality is he's a grifter, a profound grifter. he has stiffed major banks for billions of dollars. he bought properties that he

overpaid for because he lacks just basic numeracy. he's not a sophisticated businessman. the more you see these stories, it reveals him, not only to be a bad businessman but to be -- one of the elements in the times story that hasn't been paid attention to is he tried to slip in a codicil in his father's will that would have given him control of his father's estate right as his dad was slipping into alzheimer's. and fred was still the father was still present enough to say, what's going on? and like all good fathers, do he turned to his daughter and said rescue me because something smells here. and they got a different estate attorney and they cleaned it up. but the -- fred did more than just bail out donald. fred preserved him. in 1992, right before he entered all of these corporate bankruptcies, he almost went personally bankrupt. he'd guaranteed $900 million in loans he couldn't repay.

he went to his siblings for a $30 million loan. and he said to me, i give you my word, i never borrowed from my siblings. but i had it. i printed it. he sued me. we went to court. and under duress and oath in a deposition, we showed him the documents that he had borrowed the money from his siblings. had they not given him that path in the early '90s, he would have been broke. and we would have been done with donald trump back in 1992. >> i could listen to you two talk about the corruption and the lies around his business life forever because it was so central to how he sold himself to the kinds of voters who tipped states like michigan in his favor. working class voters who saw his wealth and success as the american dream, the embodiment of, if he can do it, anyone can. i remember when he first went to iowa, giving people rides in the helicopter and the attraction and appeal at a base level was that people wanted the access and the opportunity to have the

we wealth and success he had. this shows he was a millionaire by the time he was 2. this is the whopper lie that if someone gifted runs against him runs against him in a republican primary or general election they can take apart his entire political brand with this story. and with reporting that you and tim have done over the years. >> we'll see if they do, and if they, do if it sticks. one of donald trump's great gifts that he remains very gifted at is making it and preserving his own myth and getting people to not believe anybody about himself but him. it's interesting. i was watching the other day, donald trump jr.'s speech from the 2016 republican convention in cleveland where he sold his father in an effective way. the guy who made it from nothing. he was the blue collar billionaire. he worked for every one of his dollars. he was out on the job site. knew the guys pouring the concrete. that entire myth of this is a guy who, you know, no matter what he started with, what he has is his own.

he made it. that's such a powerful part of the american story and resonated with a lot of people. and it seems like this story really puts the lie to that. >> no one is going anywhere. we're going to pick this up on the other side. stay with us. where's gary? 'saved money on motorcycle insurance with geico. goin' up the country. later, gary' i have a motorcycle! wonderful. ♪ ♪ i'm goin' up the country, baby don't you wanna go? ♪

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help stop the clock on further irreversible joint damage. talk to your rheumatologist. right here. right now. humira. it has not been easy for me. and i started off in brooklyn. my father gave me a small loan of $1 million. i came into manhattan and had to pay him back and had to pay him back with interest, but i came into manhattan and started buying up properties, and i did great. >> tim, big fat lie. >> he did not get only a million dollars from his father. he probably conservatively got at least $60 million to $70 million in loans and he probably got around a quarter of a million as part of his inheritan inheritance. that's a lot more -- $300 million or so is more than $1 million. second, when he first came to the manhattan markets, frank had to co-sign his loans.

he was regarded as a punk. frank was a -- >> he was? >> after trump tower, he was taken more seriously, but before he made his bones in manhattan, he couldn't get anything done without fred sponsoring him. fred knew the democratic machine, the banks. so the sort of notion that he's pulled himself up by his boot straps is silly he's a great self-promoter and marketer which fred really wasn't. and trump took that base and did things fred probably couldn't have. but all of it sprang from fred's resources. >> the idea, though, that this sort of political identity and the business identity as david correctly points out is based on a lie. i hear what you're saying about the trump base. his base wasn't big enough for him to think he was going to win on election night. he needs more than his base to come out to keep him safe from impeachment, safe from conviction, in the oval office. and i think this is the kind of story that destabilizes people

that -- i went out and interviewed people that vote forwardvoteed for obama twice and came over and voted for him. they were upset with decbt, upst with the country not being run more the way they'd think -- >> more efficiency. >> if people can talk about this in a way that connects. >> i look at this two ways. my friends in ohio and georgia. the one thing that immediately occurs is, oh, yeah, he probably did take money from russians. you look at this and -- he's got his hands out for everybody. but the other thing is this. this has been part of why he was so successful. i've always said america likes the right kind of rich guy. the kind of rich guy who spends money the way people who don't have money would spend it. slap their names on buildings, fly around in cars with their names on it and run around with models. as long as he still has the presentation of wealth, that's going to be enough for a lot of people because they'll not care about these details. that's the real concern.

most people aren't financially savvy enough. they're like, he can't be that poor. look at the buildings and everything else. >> the apprentice in that context has underestimated the impact that had about solidifying his image in voters' imagination. >> whatever political damage was done, and i'm sure -- i think it may be negligible. this did personal damage. there's two conceits that dry this guy. attractive women get in his presence and begin to just tear off their clothes. and that's one. but the other one is that he knows so much about business. that he thinks of himself as the great american business entrepreneur of the last 40 years. warren buffet doesn't know -- >> steve jobs. bill gates. forget those guys. so this hurt him. and i think elise is right. we were talking about this. last night may have been tied to that story. he would do anything to make this story go away. >> i agree with you.

and i think stormy daniels' book is out this week which is about his sexual prowess. this book out about the size of his wealth. i think these are two stories that unnerve him. >> that's quite a double wammy for donald trump given the premium he puts on size in both of those areas. >> crowd size. talking about crowd size. keeping it pg. >> the women have got this. calm down. >> sorry. trying to be sensitive. >> but he, you know, getting up last night and doing exactly what his political advisers said was the wrong tack. the absolute last thing he could do. the thing that would sink brett kavanaugh's nomination, and he got up and did it. and i can't help but to think that it possibly was tied to this news story that is really the most upsetting story that could be told about him, chipping into his veneer of wealth. >> david, let me give you last

word. tell us what your interactions were like when you were covering things around the president's charity, around his businesses. this seems like a raw nerve for him. >> yes, and i think that's -- one of the things that the trump charity had in common with this was there was an effort to have the appearance of wealth. the appearance of great wealth without actually the substance of wealth. a lot of donald trump's charitable work was done by this trump foundation where all the money in it came from other people. it had his name on it. people assumed it was his. this effort to inflate his appearance of wealth using other people's money. with fred trump's money, his entire life, his business had beena larger version of that. taking as much credit as he could while putting as little of his own money into it. >> david farenhalt, thank you for joining us. we'll bring you the latest

reporting on the special counsel investigation. g on the special l investigation. better world. here's to the people who do what it takes to build it... to keep it running. the people who understand no matter what the question, the obstacle or the challenge, there's only one answer... let's do the work. (engine starts, hums)

monitor their blood glucose every day. which means they have to stop. and stick their fingers. repeatedly. today, life-changing technology from abbott makes it possible to track glucose levels. without drawing a drop of blood, again and again. the most personal technology, is technology with the power to change your life. life. to the fullest. former fbi director james comey predicted that the mueller investigation was in its fourth quarter. we're now seeing signs that might be the case. the special counsel's team has confirmed the departure of two prosecutors from the probe. the team consists of 13 prosecutors, down from 17. this, as the senate panel's probe into russian interference is unlikely to end this year, as

they still have to tackle the issue of collusion. frank fug lieu si is with us. let me ask you about special counsel mueller. is it possible that the model of sending the cohen case to the southern district of new york was so efficient and let the investigation be more sustainable that they're simply farming that case out, or do you really think it's winding down on some of its fronts? >> i think both things are going on. so, the strategy of farming things out is a defensive mechanism to protect the case. if mueller were to be fired or let go. the other thing that's going on, and i have to give you some kind of an anecdote here, bob mueller is super, super efficient and frugal, right? so, he's not going to tolerate people sitting around twiddling their thumbs if they have nothing to do. he'll come around the building. he stuck his head into my office saying, what's going on? why are you here? so, you know, if you finished

your case, if manafort has cooperated, if flynn has cooperated, which is, these two recent departures, right? they were working on manafort and flint, their job is done. go be productive somewhere else. i'll tell you, we had a -- i attended a meeting with director mueller with his counterpart for foreign service and allied service, it was a big deal. i looked down at the snacks for the meeting and it's cookies and water. and i said, cookies and water? and he goes, that's what we can afford. so, he's -- he's very perceptive and concerned with any perception that he's spending too much money, his budget's too big and he's keeping people on unnecessarily. >> let me just mythbust a little bit more with you, frank. he's also not 0 live use to the climate. we forget, because the kavanaugh fight has taken over everything, but a week ago, monday, rod rosenstein was on his way out, either fired or resigning.

if rosenstein is mueller's protector, it was barely ten days ago he was going to be fired or resign from that post, so, there is a need to insulate his work and maybe diversify some of that work, no? >> yeah, there's no question, there's a defensive strategy going on to farm things out. i don't know how the new york state tax case really developed, but don't be surprised if some day we find out that mueller found it and handed it to new york state. we don't know. >> do you think that mueller has this kind of financial information? donald trump said to "the new york times" it would be a red line. do you think that red line has been danced across multiple times? do you think he has his taxes and that information? >> i have no doubt. i have no doubt the mueller team's got the taxes. >> all right, frank, keeping it real. thank you for spending time with us. we have to stheek in oneak in o last break. stay with us. very last break stay with us

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bring trump and colin kaepernick together what say you? >> the trump who called colin kaepernick and s.o.b. and said he ought to be fired? colin kaepernick will get a job in the nfl before he sits down for a meeting with this president. >> you heard it here first. that does it for our hour. i'm nicolle wallace. "mtp daily" starts right now. hi, chuck. >> happy wednesday. happy hump day. >> you, too. if it's wednesday, is the gender gap becoming a gender canyon? good evening, i'm chuck todd here in washington. welcome to "mtp daily." any minute now, the fbi could send the senate the transskrichts of the interviews they've done in their background investigation into brett kavanaugh. and that means that leader mcconnell could be scheduling the kavanaugh vote at any minute.