consent with search and destroy. >> i was calculating daily the risk-benefit for me of come forward and wondering whether i would just be jumping into a train that is headed where it was headed anyway and that i would be personally annihilated. >> one week ago today, two people went to capitol hill to tell two very different stories. dr. ford worried about being personally annihilated. judge kavanaugh talked about a broken system. on those points, at least, both seem entirely correct. welcome to ""morning joe." it is thursday, october 4th. we have mike barnacle, jonathan lameer, and betsy woodruff joins us this morning. the republican push to confirm brett kavanaugh is in its final

stretch. the fbi has wrapped up its investigation and mitch mcconnell is pushing ahead on a vote and we're already seeing the impacts of this supreme court fight with republican voters appearing increasingly fired up with just about a month to go until the midterm elections. joe, that's what you warrant about yesterday, a backlash on the democrats pertaining to these kavanaugh hearings. >> well, a lot of people seeing them as overreaching. we talked about the media bias, that it seemed that too many people see happening and said that there could be an impact politically. we are seeing that right now, mika, in some polls that actually broke a couple of hours after the show yesterday. >> and it's so similar the to the parallel you made to the reaction, the media reaction, the reaction in general to trump. there was a blindness to what could be really happening. >> right.

people not understanding before the election. >> so fired up on their side. >> so fired up and people in the media actually deciding that it was their job and their war. willie brought this up, people saying what are we going to tell our grandchildren in the run up to the trump election. and i know, willie, what you're telling your grandchildren is you're a journalist and you did your job. your job is to report the news and we're going to show some polls in a second that suggest that a lot of americans believe there's been an overreach by a lot of us in the media and by a lot of democrats the on the judiciary committee.

and other stories like this that looked to a lot of americans. so here is what we have now. the large advantage democrats held in enthusiasm has all but ee.evaporated. 80% of republicans now say the october election is very important. that is two points shy of the democrats who saw their enthusiasm tick up only slightly with the prior poll. there you have it. that's just over the last month or so. >> and, willie, we've said it time and time again on this show, when people do generic ballot tests, it's not the generic ballot tests that i look at, that a lot of other people look at going into midterms. it's voter intensity. and the democrats have had a

massive advantage in voter intensity over the past 18 months. and it has ee.evaporated in the course of a couple of weeks. again, mike, this is just one poll, but you don't have to be a rocket scientist or you don't have to have a bph.d. in politics to understand what the last couple weeks have done to energize the republican base and the conservative base and say, hey, i hate trump, but i'm not a big fan of what the democrats and the media are doing right now, too. >> for sure, joe, for sure. look, the one thing we can document and you can document it any number of ways is the president's constant assault on the media, fake news, has really, really worked and has sunk in all across the country. there's been a series of stories about the supreme court appointment that have appeared on television and in newspapers that have caused, i think, a lot of americans in this polarized

political atmosphere of ours to stop, pause and say, hey, this is just a bit too much. especially one of the later stories early in this week about a note that judge kavanaugh, when he was 17 or 18 years of age, wrote to his friends about a rental, a beach rental for a weekend. and at the end of that note, you know, it said we best warn the neighbors and tell them that a bunch of drunks will be renting this condo for two days. and i think a lot of people looked at that and said, you know, he was 17 when he wrote that. come on. so things like that added to this enthusiasm on the republican side. >> well, yeah, that and, mika, like willie said, breathless stories about kavanaugh throwing ice cubes when he was 17 or 18 years old, anonymous stories coming out with absolutely no sourcing, stories about gang rape factories coming out,

absolutely no sourcing. and, you know, i wish everybody would remember what marty barren tells his people at "the washington post." we are not going to war. >> right. >> we are going to work. and this is just a reminder. and, again, who knows. maybe kavanaugh goes down. i can tell you right now these are just snapshots of how americans feel today. >> yeah. but it's not supposed to be how reporters feel and how media analysts feel at this point in a case like this. and it's not even a case yet, although the fbi is looking into it. it's a hearing. it's a job interview. and what we saw and what i think is playing into this blowback you're talking about is a lot of members of the media reacting emotionally. like, for example, did brett kavanaugh feel like maybe he was lying? did it feels like he was lying about drinking? did he seem like he was kind of a jerk? did it seem like he was overly

aggressive? yes, sure. but that does not mean he did it. and these are emotional reactions that lead to things that are said on twitter which lead to reaction about that which leads to exactly what donald trump wants. >> exactly what he wants. report the facts and it would probably be better if anybody in the mean stream media and not take every note that he wrote on his calendar 20 or 30 years ago and suggested it proves he goes to gang rapes, that he is a serial rapist. we're talking about this for a reason. what has happened over the last couple of weeks has energized a

republican base and put democratic seats in danger. >> new fox news polling shows republicans making gain necessary a number of battleground senate races heading into november. in north dakota, senator heidi heitkamp which is one of the most vulnerable democrats this year is trailing republican challenger kevin cramer by 12 points. >> let's stop right there. heidi hi heidi heitkamp seems to be the democrat very endangered right now. and unlike every other democrats in these tight races, it's hard to imagine how she fights her way back, especially with a cavanaugh vote still in front of her. >> that's right. the strategists i talked to on both sides of the party put her as the most in jeopardy democrat so far. missouri, there might be a slight edge. but they think this kavanaugh

moment here has absolutely energized republicans who, as you've been saying, reallien respondent, down about how the spring and summer have gone and now feel like they have something to fight for. it will be interesting to see, does that enthusiasm persist if kavanaugh were to be seated on the bench? if he comes through this and he gets on the bench, you know, is some of his enthusiasm almost anger? does it justify how they're tight our guy like this, how can they deny him? certainly if he doesn't make it, then yes, you would think that would continue. if he does get on, that's what would dissipate. that's what we're seen in the weeks ahead. >> and a couple of weeks ago, i was talking about how ironically the person who wins this fight may lose some voters in the fall because that anger will dissipate. they win. they don't feel as moevenated to go up. but there's no doubt that heidi heitkamp has a lot of reason to w worry this morning just like,

mika, red sox fans. >> okay. in tennessee where president trump rallied on monday, republican marsha blackburn is leading phil bredesen by 5 points. that's a real switch. >> that's going to be a tough battle which i would guess is probably going to go down to the very end because, wow, bredesen's favorable ratings in the state of tennessee are numbers that any politician would dream for. >> that's right. and breesen is the candidate that needs to win if democrats are going to pull off a surprising flip of the senate. if the phil bredesen isn't likely to nab these seats, it's unlikely we'll see a change in control of the senate as we go into next year. what it indicates is that the conventional wisdom, that tennessee is a super duper red

state may bear out as we move forward. texas, we've seen some numbers in the last 24 hours or so indicating that the surge in support that beto o'rourke had potentially may not bare out. we get polling data and we always try to pore over it and try to read the tea leaves, but ultimately, polls are useless until october. that's why these numbers coming out are going to dispel a lot of conventional wisdom that cal calcified over the last several months. >> and what you want to look at is trend lines.

these could dramatically change in a week. >> missouri shows a tie between claire mccaskill and her challenger. in arizonindiana joe donnelly l mike braun by two points. >> indiana, missouri, they're just believe tossups now. could go either way. >> yeah. and i think if you look at claire mccaskill, it will be interesting to see how that cuts. she has a tough vote for her now. it's a genuine tossup and has been within the margin of error for some time now. she seems to find a way over the years. we'll see if this year is different.

john pedora, editor of commentary magazine tweeted yesterday so basically we could be seeing a nearly unprecedented political event in november with house waving toward dems and senate getting more republicans. that would be an interesting dynamic. >> it would be interesting. i don't know that that is going to the happen. you usually have that same wave breaking for republicans candidates as you do for democratic candidates. if you have somebody that is anchored by what they're seeing on tv, whether they're a democrat or a republican, it drags them out to vote. if they're so motivated, they're going to vote for republicans straight down the line or democrats straight down the

line. who knows how october is going to end. yankees yesterday, who would have guessed -- >> who stays up this late? >> aaron judge with a broken wrist. who would think that they would put a tee that 5-year-olds hit off of for him to hit that five run? i'm serious. has anybody ever seen a fatter pitch pitched in a high stake gak than the one that was pitched to aaron judge? >> i'm not as excited this morning. now we can get in to take some time with the red sox. he had four good innings. that was the wild card. how was he going to show up? was he going to be -- the sererino of the first half of the season or the second half? now we've got it, guys.

we've got red sox/yankees friday night at fenway. how are you feeling about it? >> what scares me so much, and i am prettietrified so much, look severino. this is do or die. it was win or go home. comes through like a champ so many times. >> it ises the bronze bombers and the 86 bears combined coming right at us. joe, it was fun while it lasted. yes, they got what they needed out of severino. they have a lights out bullpen which we do not have. it's been 14 years since we've had a red sox/yankees playoff

series. the passion play that was the 2003, 2004 league championship series, the yankees had a thrilling victory in '03 and in '04 the red sox had a comeback. i think we should stay consistent and do that again. >> another yankees sweep. but my professor at the university of florida in class always said scarborough, you should see this next question coming at you like a freight train out of the mist. mike barnacle, that freight train that professor pearson was talking about so long ago, that freight train, that's the bronx bombers express and i'm afraid they're coming to run us right over. >> i'm curious, what do they call you two guys, the snowflake twins? >> oh. >> i mean, here is the magic number right here.

four. red sox in four. >> i like it. >> we're going to give the yankees one game. red sox in four. you don't win 108 games. it's not a trick. it's not a magic thing they did. this is a very, very good baseball team. >> they're very cute. >> jonathan, i'm feeling a lot better. mike thinks we're going to lose in four instead of three. that gives me another game to watch with my kids. that will be nice. >> as for the yankees, we're thrilled and honored to play at fenway. we have a much smaller payroll than the red sox. >> they're very cute. >> your bat boy makes more money than our entire infield, willie

mike, i'm curious, the sale going to go 2 innings or 3 1/2? >> he's going to go at least 6 tomorrow. he's straightened out his mechanics. don't worry. first, hopefully you guys will be there in your homes watching this game sh rorouded with blans covered up to your ears. >> stop it. just stop it. >> i'm going to get joe a gravity blanket for stress and anxiety. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll break down the timeline of what to expect over the coming days of brett kavanaugh's nomination. we could see a final vote on saturday. there are several key steps that may play out along the way. and a follow-up to the "new york times" investigation of donald trump's financial history. >> what a remarkable story,

mika. >> well, the scam of the century will be the story of donald j. trump. the official white house response sure sounds like it's channeling the president. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> and talking about that baseball game friday night, the weather will be perfect. october baseball, sometimes it's cold. but it looks to be warm and mild. so a cold front heading through the ohio valley, thunderstorms with it that just went through you and over the top of indianapolis and st. louis. you got some rain here. so this front will bring showers and storms to the northeast today. most likely not i-95 interior sections during the day. and how about the weekend weather pattern? what an extreme start to october. summer continuing in all areas of the east of the mississippi while in the west it is going be cold. we're going to get some heavy snow. in the middle we're going to have a lot of flooding concerns. this will be the next weather story as we go throughout the upcoming week. this area of red from wichita up to southern oklahoma, that's up to 7 inches of rain over the

next five days. we will be talking about flooding in the days ahead. today's forecast, almost 90 today again in washington, d.c. 90 in atlanta. at the same time, we're in the 40s in the northern plains. new york city at 79 and still about 10 degrees warmer than it should be. even tomorrow, we continue with a warm trend from the southern half of the country and we watch showers and storms from st. louis to chicago. we're still in our tropical season and our long range models are hinting towards the gulf of mexico next week. we'll keep an eye on that, also. washington, d.c., air-conditioners. we can't get rid of them this year. up to 90 this afternoon. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. n. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. i'm ken jacobus, i'm the owner of good start packaging. we distribute environmentally-friendly packaging for restaurants. and we've grown substantially. so i switched to the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy. and last year, i earned $36,000 in cash back.

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on the supplemental material before a senate majority leader mitch mcconnell announcing on the senate floor late last night that the fbi has finished its supplemental background check into supreme court nominee brett kavanaugh. the report was given to the white house and delivered to capitol hill where it will be reviewed today. the investigation, which is centered around decades old investigation around kavanaugh is planned to be kept secret. senator chuck grassley will be the first to see the report followed by senator diane feinstein at 9:00 a.m. and democrats on the panel can view the report an hour later.

a key vote arrangement has been made for friday. if that vote passes, there will be up to 30 hours of debate setting up a final.confirmation vote on kavanaugh as efarly as saturday. the white house is fully confident the senate will vote to confirm judge kavanaugh to the supreme court. meanwhile, the white house is defending president trump after he mocked kavanaugh accuser christine blasey ford at a rally in mississippi on tuesday night. here first is what the president said tuesday night followed by what press secretary sarah huckabee sanders and kellyanne conway had to say yesterday. >> what he's going through 36 years ago, this happened. one beer, right?

i had one beer. well, do you think it was a -- nope, it was one beer. oh, good. how did you get home? i don't remember. how did you get there.? i don't remember. where is the place? i don't remember. how many years ago was it? i don't know. i don't know. i don't know. what neighborhood was it in? i don't know. where is the house? >> i don't know. >> upstairs, downstairs, where was it? i don't know. but i had one beer. that's the only thing i don't remember. >> tt was stating the fact. every single word judge kavanaugh said has been picked awe part. every single word, second by second of his testimony has been picked apart. yet if anybody says anything about the accusations that have been thrown against them, that's totally outrageous. >> she's been treated like a fabric egg by all of us, including me and the president.

can you fill in her memory gaps, her factual inconsistencies? that is part of the evidence gathering in any hunt for truth. >> you know, i find it to be flabbergasting, sarah huckabee sanders especially. i sort of discount kellyanne conway because she so clearly didn't tell the truth from the beginning. but you had mitch mcconnell, lindsay gram, lisa murkowski, a lot of people said they didn't like what the president said when he visibly mocked this woman on stage. if you want to pick apart how this is being treated and show there are some discreptsies, that's fair. that is absolutely fair. that's why the hearings are being had. that is why finally the fbi was able to step in because there are questions. but when you have this misogynist knowingly mocking her on stage, i don't understand sarah huckabee sanders. i don't get it.

some would say that you're basically a flack for a misogynist who is a proud predator who brags about grabbing women by the genitals. as a woman in a powerful position, i'm sorry, you're a complete disappointment. a complete disappointment. there is absolutely no excuse for defending a president for mocking a victim of sexual misconduction, a victim of something, a woman who is suffering. you can't see that's wrong? you have made rotten to the core by this presidency. >> so, willie, as mika said, it's one thing if you want to question the story as it pertain toes brett kavanaugh, if you want to say, hey, as the "new york times" has said, as many others news outlets have said all along that nobody can corroborate her story. and you can talk about the inconsistencies in a long way to

say, just as the president said before, i respect dr. ford but i also respect brett kavanaugh and don't believe that he did it. there have been many people walking that fine line and being respectful of her. but what we saw here, of course, was the president using as a political punch line the pain and agony that a woman has been enduring for over three decades. and that is, as all the republican senators spoke yesterday said, that is simply not defensible and for the women of the white house to defend this misogynist attack is just really beyond -- >> it's beyond most americans' comprehensions.

>> this woman shoornt be assaulted and she should not be ignored. this woman will be heard. setting the early tone for the white house's reaction to the story. but i think what you see there is frustration. they feel like they offered dr. ford to come to california. they feel like she's made excuses for not providing information to the committee. they feel, as kellyanne said, they've treated her well and she has not given them what they've needed to move this process forward. >> yeah. for weeks now, as you say, the president's aides were saying to him, don't criticize her. support kavanaugh, don't go after dr. ford. there's no up side here. the electorate, key senators will determine kavanaugh's fate. he listened for a while. there have been a few cracks

from that. he made a dig about the parents. since then, he has expressed some frustration. but what happened the other night was an eruption. and the reporting that we've done suggests that, you know, it was a frustration about the process, how long it was taking, but in particular, two other things. as he was flying down to that rally in mississippi, that he was reading stories, the latest in stories about cavanaugh, the bar fight with the ice and things of that nature. but also the day that that "new york times" story ran about his finances and that he was fuming about that. >> support your guy, but don't go after her. he couldn't help himself. what resulted was this display. what you just said was they were up to their efforts. they were disappointed in what

he said and cast into doubt kavanaugh's fate. >> we've been talking about it this morning. here is the president doing the exact same thing. if kellyanne cornway is saying she's like a fabbrege egg, it could be swinging back the other way. the democrats are going to squawk and say that it's a rigged investigation. the republicans are going to squawk and say what john cornyn said, let's go ahead and vote. this is ridiculous.

it's been too much time. at the end of the day, all of the noise, everything that is going to be surrounding this, we are exactly where we were last week, aren't we? this comes down to flight, this comes down to murkowski. this comes down to a handful of democrats. where are they right now? >> one thing that we know for sure is that flake, however he decides to vote, is going to foal like he's gained significant cover because of this fbi investigation. last week when he pulled his stunning switcheroo, one thing he make clear in the wake of that movement is that his top priority was preserving the process. this is more about the way it played out than the ultimate results of that confirmation process. i don't think there's been any significant increase in public confidence in the way the united states senate works because of this fbi investigation. it's been widely viewed as

insufficient. and as something that's largely a symbolic undertaking. but for flake, it's something he'll be able to point to going forward as an accomplishment and as his taking a stand to try to defend this institution. whether it has any impact whatsoever on the broader american confidence of the institution very much remain toes be seen. but for him, things have changed because this investigation happened. and my understanding is murkowski and collins are thinking the same way. we won't expect to hear anything from them publicly until they read the results of this report. >> betsy, thank you very much. >> sure thing. >> still ahead, secretary of state mike pompeo is expected to meet with kim jong-un once again this weekend in an effort to

reinvigorate nuclear talks. >> they love each other. >> we'll see if it will be like the last meet when the north korean leader had more pressing business to conduct at a potato farm. "morning joe" will be right back. farm "morning joe" will be right back my name is elaine barber, and i'm a five-year cancer survivor. surviving for five years is a big deal. i had so many people at ctca helping me find a way to go through the treatments. the reality of cancer is not everybody survives. at ctca, they have a huge celebrate life event. that was amazing, because the whole day was about all of the survivors. i'm excited about my future. visit cancercenter.com to schedule an appointment now.

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i like him, he likes me. i guess that's okay. am i allowed to say that? that was a big, big problem. and you know the interesting thing? when i did it and i was really being tough, and so was he, and we have a back and forth. then we fell in love. no, really. he wrote me beautiful letters. and they're great letters. we fell in love. >> i'm worried that we're being played here. not telling president trump. enough with i love you. this is not a guy to -- >> you specifically told him do not say -- >> yeah, from my point of view this love crap needs to stop. there's nothing to love about kim jong-un. i don't know how this ends, but we're into another round of engagement.

here is what i worried about. he gets sucked into the love thing. and nothing changes. so he has really created a hard choice for himself. >> joining us now, dean of the school of international studies at the university of denver, former u.s. ambassador of south korea, christopher hill. good to see you this morning. i can't help but wonder what you're thinking this morning as a former ambassador to of south korea talking about the president falling in love with the dictator of north korea. >> it is kind of extraordinary. what's particularly extraordinary is the president has staff members like john bolton who used to send instructions to the negotiator that is me telling me no toasting, no smiling, no shaking hands. he didn't have to say no hugging. i guess that would have been necessary more recently.

>>o. >> well, you know, mr. ambassador, while all the hugging and the statements of love and affection are going out there, we find out this past week according to a south korean official that he tells other elected officials in south korea that he believes north korea has up to 60 nuclear weapons. do you believe that could be an accurate assessment? and if so, how does that change the dynamics of any negotiation going forward? >> first of all, the north koreans have produced material and as secretary pompeo said, they're continue to go produce fissile material. depending on the bomb design, you take the bomb design and divide it into the material and that's the number of weapons. what we know is they have taken zero steps to do away with their fissile material and what we know is the north koreans are stalling on the issue of denuclearzation. they need for us to be even

nicer to them, although our president just said he loves them. i'm not sure what we can do in that regard. i think the issue is the north koreans are now sort of engaging in random acts of denuclearzation, shutting some test site, smutting down something else, none of which we've ever asked them for. so these random acts of denuclearzation do not amount to a cooperative policy with the united states or anyone else. >> the hard liners have been insisting from the very beginning there is going to be denuclearzation. i think most outside observers have said that is never going to happen. is that still your position, that no matter how much donald trump tells kim jong-un he loves him, no matter how many beautiful letters he receives from kim jong-un, north korea is never going to denuclearize. >> never is a language time and

i'm of the view that if we create a circumstance where north korea has a much worse future with nuclear weapons and they can be made to understand that, that we will chase them to the moon and back to do something about their nuclear weapons. we can change their calculation. but -- >> how does this change their calculation? americans haven't been able to change their calculation now for 40 years. how do we change it? >> i agree. but just a few months ago, we got the chinese on board for interdicting supplies of gasoline. that's the first time that's ever been done. but unfortunately it was followed up by an uncoordinated step in singapore and before you know it, no one is enforcing sanctions. but then they simply moved to a whole other approach and i think the problem right now is there's zero pressure on north korea. if anything, the more they wait, the more the president seems to love them. >> mr. ambassador, what has the behavior of the president of united states, the meeting in

singapore, what has that done internally? >> well, first of all, these kind of cultural signals, i love you, for example, might be taken by the north koreans to say oh, he's weak. he talks a tough game with some people, but he's basically weak and he's not going to do anything about our nuclear weapons. the other point it suggests is he's playing for a really long haul. the idea, yeah, we love you, we don't mean any harm to you, and this is the notion that maybe some day in the fullness of time north korea will say well we don't really need nuclear weapons. that's quite different from putting pressure from saying look, if you don't do this, you're not going to have any gasoline in your countries, those kinds of measures. and that stuff from six months ago is all gone right now. >> the president ad has said they're working towards a second summit between himself and kim jong-un. they're working towards potentially having it here in the united states. what lessons can we learn from

singapore.? what would you advise him to do differently this time around? >> this isn't rocket science, so to speak. you put together a piece of paper. you hammer it out beforeen hand. you slap each other around. but then you have a joint communique so everything is agreed before they sit down. this is something the president doesn't like to have. he wants to negotiate it himself. the consequence of singapore was there was a lot of making it up as he went along and i think the consequence of singapore has been harmful to the other lever that we had which is pretty tough sanctions. getti getting china on board, that seems to be gone for now. by going at this kind of bilateral, the world watches and they say, come on, guys, beer more flexible. so we put ourselves in the position of having to kind of suffer this notion that everybody wants to see us give

in on certain things rather than have a much better approach of multi lateralism where everybody is pressuring north korea. >> and secretary of state pompeo will be in north korea over the weekend. we'll see if kim jong-un shows up in his white linen suit picking potatoes as he did last time. still ahead, a surge of energy among republican voters as the kavanaugh battle plays out. we'll discuss whether that's a risky wager when "morning joe" comes right back. ger when "morn" comes right back you're headed down the highway

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democrats have renewed their call for president trump to release his tax returns and a key republican may be joining as well. it follows that exhaustive "new york times" investigation that

claims the president helped his parents dodge taxes including incidents of outright fraud. the top democrat wants the irs to investigate what he calls quote serious and credible allegations of potentially illegal tax fraud. while the committee's republican chairman orrin hatch tells cnn that the president quote may have to give up those returns. the president yesterday called the "times" story a very old boring and often told hit piece. white house press secretary sarah huckabee sanders echoed the president's statement. >> so totally false attack based on an old recycled news story. i'm not going to sit and go through every line of a very boring 14,000 word story. one thing the article did get right it showed the president's father actually had a great deal of confidence in him. >> well, i'm not so sure because

really at the end, sara his father was afraid that donald would bilk him out of money by changing the will at the very end and leave him and his other siblings in a terrible position. that's how a great deal of confidence is defined the trump family so be it. i think most other people might consider that little less than a rave review. commentary magazine noah rothman reacted to all that sarah huckabee sanders said by saying quote, objectively false. maybe the most captivating story about tax avoidance and evasion i've ever read. >> he's the scandal of the century this president. >> mika, what donald trump has done in the past 20, 30 years is the scam of the century. willie, noah is right. you want to see how healthy

journalism is. take a look at that extraordinary investigation, the type of investigation that papers like the "new york times" and "the washington post" and the "wall street journal" have been turning out for the past couple of years now. >> i think it was very telling that the central criticism from president and sarah huckabee sanders, the story was too long and too boring. in other words, they don't want people to plow through ten pages of print newspaper. but, you know, i would be interested to see fact by fact what they dispute in that piece. what specifically. that was the question in the briefing room. specifically what do you dispute. sarah huckabee sanders said it's too long and boring for me to get into. the other big thing as jonathan has reported that the president was so troubled by is that it tears apart his narrative, which is thaet built himself up as this guy from queens who made it big in manhattan and became a great billionaire and rose to

the presidency. that's just not the case. >> he's richie rich. his daddy gave him $2 million by the time he was 8 years old and jonath jonathan, you've been talking about how the white house is trying to stop him from blowing up over the last couple of weeks. all of these different things, and that news article comes out. that investigation comes out. and kaboom, he explodes. >> that's right. it undermines the central thesis of what was his candidacy to start. let's remember he original lie presented himself i'll be president, i'll be america's ceo. i have a successful business, successful television show that portrays me as one of the top corporate leaders in the country. i built this company, i took it from queens, brought to it manhattan and i turned it into this global icon.

what this story does is it reveals so much of how his money actually came about, suggests that company have had perhaps be richer today had he just put the money away as opposed to going into this business. it suggests so many people that we've seen night after night at these campaign rallies this guy built this business, key do the same for this country and the economy and this story cuts at the heart of that and really feeds into, you know, so much of what donald trump is insecure b-that idea who he s-how he built his business and we saw him explode the other night on the rally stage. >> mika, most devastating part of this story for donald trump, the fiction that is donald trump's narrative of his life, actually was, again, the hard number that showed. if he had just spent the past 45 years playing horse shoes and going out on the professional horse shoe circuit and put all of his daddy's money into a

basic mutual fund, he would be richer today and be a lot better at horse shoes. so you got that. >> okay. coming up the senate judiciary committee receives the fbi report on brett kavanaugh with a key confirmation vote set for tomorrow. a breakdown of how thing are expected to play out. and is ben sasse emerging as one to watch. >> no. i love ben sasse. he's voting for kavanaugh. no means yes on this vote. ote. is it written on our faces? or something woven into the dna of the doers, the determined, the driven? and while the bar keeps getting higher, ambition gives us the power to tackle any obstacle. opening the doors to bigger leaps, larger goals

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[ beep ] first man is "the best we're going to the moon. neil armstrong, buzz aldrin. that is a big mother... it's gonna be a hell of a ride. [ dramatic music playing ] we got a bad fire. there's no easy way to say this... they're gone, neil. we need you to be commander. we need to fail down here so we don't fail up there.

what are the chances this is the last time the boys are gonna see you? 5... 4... 3... 2... first man. rated pg-13. > i'm wondering how that's changed you? >> it's put pressure. upped my game. so a vacuum is being left in the senate. when they write the history of the senate, john, it will be in the first paragraph. ted kennedy, john mccain, kinds of modern people who were ideological opponents but could find ways to move things forward. on our side he was the keeper of the flame for the reagan view. we make history, we're not run over by it, america's values are strongest asset, not our military. count me in. you got marco. you got a new generation sort of

mccainiacs coming up. the natural person to keep that alive is me because we're so close. on my side i'm trying to fight against isolationism. if you leave them alone they will leave you alone, it won't work. >> senator lindsey graham says he's best positioned to carry the mantel of john mccain. his increasingly vocal support of trump policies is perhaps calling that into just a tad bit of question. >> mike barnacle, it's interesting when he says that because since john mccain's death most observers have said that lindsey has ckowtowed to donald trump in every way possible even saying it's sad that john didn't have more time to get know donald trump he might have liked him. others who knew john mccain best

that actually would have made john mccain hate donald trump even more. >> you know, what was interesting, watching that clip, joe, jeffrey goldberg our friend, one of the. >> iest, smartest people you'll ever come across, very polite, dignified, sat there, listening to lindsey talking about john mccain and mccainiacs and mccain's life and towards the end jeffrey is staring at the floor i can't believe i'm hearing from him. i don't know what happened. i don't think anybody really knows what happened to lindsey graham. john mccain has now been gone for several weeks and lindsey has done a complete 180 in terms of how he views mr. trump and thing that mr. trump does. i think it's mist t mystifying

and a lot of people. >> if lindsey graham decided to carry the mantel of john mccain forward he said along with marco rubio and others, well that would being a great. that would being a great not only for lindsey graham, it would being a great for the people of south carolina who he represents, being a great for this country and being a great for the world. it would being a great for those alliances, mika that people like john mccain and your father spent their entire lifetime trying to preserve. trying to make the united states a beacon against totaliarianism. in the last month lindsey graham hasn't been acting like that. let's hope he makes the decision

to move in the direction that john mccain moved his entire life. >> joining the conversation we have former justice department spokesman now an msnbc justice and security analyst matt miller. and white house correspondent for bloomberg news shannon whose new piece is entitled trump betts kavanaugh fight will fire up gop voters. and we'll start there. the ongoing battle over brett kavanaugh's confirm jays appears to have fired up republican voters with just about a month to go until the mid-term elections. according to a new npr news hour maris poll, 80% of republicans now say the elections in november are very important and more than 10-point jump since july. gop figure is just two points shy of the democrats who saw their enthusiasm tick up only

slightly from the prior poll. >> so donald trump has become very powerful man and very successful politician not by being a conservative because the man is not concerned. >> no. >> but by being an anti-liberal. shannon, you could see when he went to mississippi he decided stopping differential to dr. ford and decided just kick it into full gear and make that calculation i'm going to be anti-liberal again and i'm going to burn the place down and, apparently if you look at the polls out this morning he was reading the polls we're seeing today a few days ago. >> yeah. the white house really tapped into this sort of surge of support among the grassroots republicans, trump's base in the days leading up to that mississippi rally. really from the moment kavanaugh stood before the senate judiciary committee up until

that moment there was a lot of apathy among republican voters and people in the white house were telling me how concern they were about the mid-term athletics and the fact they wouldn't be able to get their base to come out and vote and there was so much more enthusiasm among democrats. but that really changed. that moment kavanaugh stood up there, raised his right hand and started what a lot of people saw as a tirade and poor temperment they saw that as a moment of standing up against these attacks. over the weekend the white house saw that enthusiasm grow. there was a rally on monday night where the president tested out this messaging, saw a good response. tuesday he decided to lean into this even before taking a trip he raised this issue how it's a scary time for white males when he was talking to reporters before leaving the white house and really just went on full attack and he's wagering that once again key tap into one of

these cultural undercurrents, kneeling at the nfl, a muslim ban, important training mexicans as criminals, these cultural undercurrents that he's able to tap into. he's hoping this is one as well not just attacks on democrats also this plight of the white male and these attacks on young men and white men that he feels are resonating with a lot of people. we've had these white hot moments that last days or weeks during the trump administration and often they are supplanted by whatever the next white hot moment is. does the white house and democrats on capitol hill believe this kavanaugh episode can be over with by saturday will have legs and drive people out to the polls in november, perhaps change the dynamic of what people see a blue wave coming? >> people absolutely agree with that concern that this kavanaugh momentum isn't going to last. i mean even though -- i mean we're about a month from

election so much can happen between now and then. but it certainly turned up the volume. it's gotten republicans to pay attention. as one person said reminded them of what this fight is all about. why they should come up to the polls by seeing this apparent attack from the democrats and this plot from the democrats. that's how the republicans view it. that's gotten their attention and enthusiasm. if they can find one or two more touch points between now and election day yes they can keep that momentum. who knows what we'll be talking about two weeks from now. >> let's look back over the first year. what did we hear all the time? we had people supporting donald trump and they would say yes his twitter feed is repugnant and everything that's wrong with american politics. yes, he's a mysoginist, he's racially insensitive and yes we don't want our children to model

their lives after him. but we got gorsuch. that's what we heard for the first year. and then the second year, just became too much and suddenly yes, we got gorsuch who is no longer enough. but here we are again, with another supreme court battle and once again the conservative base is engaged just like a lot of people are engaged on the left because these supreme court battles in our tribal political culture are pretty much the bloodiest form of political warfare and it's been that way since at least 1987 and robert bork. >> yeah. now it's on steroids, joe, given mr. trump's behavior. shannon mentioned something that's both really interesting and in my view has been kind of undercovered. and it is mr. trump's design, by design, going after the

resentment that many white males feel unjustifiably, i think, but feel about what's going on around them politically. when he stood the other day at that rally and did his little rap on mom i got a great job at general motors, mom i got a promotion at general motors and mom somebody accused me of something i didn't know i lost my job. he knows exactly what he's doing. he tracks that with the supreme court nomination and the furor over judge kavanaugh he does it by design and intent. sadly for the country, for the way the conduct of the united states senate, the way business is done in the senate and house of representatives, our politics, it works. >> this goes back to 2016. donald trump succeeded in wisconsin. he succeeded in michigan. he succeeded in pennsylvania. we had people like joe biden and

ed rendell, i know bill clinton was worried about it, that the democratic party, the new democratic coalition, the party leadership that was too smart to use polls in 2016, that they just had algorithms that they would follow, that they were leaving white working class democratic voters behind. so, yes, trump is using this. he used it in 2016. it worked. you would think between then and now democrats would figure out a way to reach out more effectively to white working class men who have been the back bone of their party now for a generation. >> here's the deal on that, joe. if you look at the democrats and you look at many of the potential candidates they mentioned to be the next democratic nominee for president, i think you would be hard pressed to find among them

more than one or two who actually know how real human beings, americans live their lives on a daily basis. we can talk about the stock market, we can talk about the booming economy. this is still paycheck to paycheck country for many, many, many people. and the cultural social issues that we're interested in here on tv, the progressive issues that we would like to see become successful and cemented in american culture and they are very important, they are very crucial, they don't matter a whole lot to people struggling each and every week to figure out how can they set aside enough money for college tuition for their child. can they afford to go the movies as a family this weekend. that doesn't matter to those people and democrats have for gotten how people live. >> mika, as we say here all the time, and that transcends all races. there is a presumption that

hispanic voters are going to automatically latch on to the most progressive elements of the democratic platform. that black voters are automatically going to latch on to the most progressive elements of the democratic platform. they do not all march in lock step. i know a lot of people were shocked 7008 that the proposition banni inning gay mae passed in 2008 the same night barack obama become president of the united states. fdr's coalition, lbj's coalition, bill clinton's coalition, it was a widely diverse coalition, and right now there doesn't seem to be a democrat that has a message that can tie all those desperate parts back together. >> well, i want to set up what we're going to show here, president trump mocking dr.

christine blasey ford and then some of his staffers in the white house backing him up as a massive setback for women. here's president trump. >> what he's going through, 36 years ago this happened. i had one beer, right? i had one beer. well, you think -- nope, it was one beer. oh, good. how did you get home? i don't remember. how did you get there? i don't remember. where is the place? i don't remember. how many years ago? i don't know. i don't know. i don't know. i don't know. [ cheers and applause ] what neighborhood? i don't know. upstairs, downstairs. i had one beer. that's the only thing i remember. >> the president was state offing the facts. every single word judge kavanaugh has said has been picked apart. every single word second by

second has been picked apart. if anybody says anything about the accusations that have been throne against him is off limits and outrageous. >> she's been treated like a faberge. he's pointed out factual inconsistencies. can you fill in her factual inconsistencies? that's part of the evidence gathering in the hunt for truth. >> while we talk about democratic coalitions, barack obama, can you imagine if barack obama were on the scene as an active politician how he would be responding to that? his coalition from 2008 and 2012 responded to that sort of abhorrent behavior and i think he was only democrat to get re-elected with a majority of the vote since fdr. democrats have to find somebody that is a voice of the

opposition, that can speak out against that outrage. tell me, what are your thoughts as you saw kellyanne conway and sarah huckabee sanders basically defend the president? >> well the president was reprehensible. christine blasey ford has put herself out there and she has been enduring the blinding light of questions surrounding her life, her credibility, and her story. and i was really struck by kellyanne conway saying that she's been treated like a faberge egg. that's interesting. i find that fascinating, actually because kellyanne conway went on a sunday show and in the middle of making her point she announced she's a victim of sexual assault. really? oh, my gosh. okay. women should be hear and apparently they get treated like faberge eggs. so tell us your story. who is your attacker. who broke the law?

who hurt you? you seem to really uncomfortable when you let that slip out. your voice got small. your voice cracked. you had to clear your throat. you were really uncomfortable just saying i am a victim of sexual assault. and you know what? i say that as a virtually sexual assault myself. so i want to ask why can't you be the egg, kellyanne conway, the faberge egg and tell your story. you say women should be heard. you talk out of both sides of your mouth. you say women should be heard. their stories are credible and compelling. let's hear yours. it's very convenient to drop that. i want to know your story. i want to know what happened. you should have justice, shouldn't you hold on, i'm not done. know your value. okay pup can just throw that out as a political dagger to protect this reprehensible predator of a president. and make an announcement that you're the victim of sexual

assault which, therefore, for some reason makes everybody not ask you about it? if women are being treated like faberge eggs when they announce their stories then you go ahead and tell yours and see how easy it is, okay. that was as low as it gets. i would get up and leave if i were you to today. i would never want to face the cameras again unless you're willing to tell your story just like dr. ford did, okay? and see what it feels like to be treated like a faberge egg as you say. you have such great tight little points that you want to throw out there. this one is not going to fly. you can't use being a victim of sexual assault, throw it out there, and then literally dirty, sully the name of someone who has stepped in front of the cameras before the united states of america and told her story and you say that she's being treated like a faberge egg. that's just delicious at this point.

you know, the president, we get him. but sarah huckabee sanders and kellyanne conway, i would just like to say you two are single-handedly setting back women and i would suggest you try to turn it around. >> you know, willie, i all personally, i am glad that when kellyanne conway let it slip that she was a victim of sexual assault, that she was treated, she says like a faberge egg. i would just say treated with deference, treated with respect, not mocked by her interviewer. certainly not mocked by any elected politician. not mocked by chuck schumer. not mocked by anybody else about her claims of sexual assault and yet the president of the united states mocks dr. ford for her claims of sexual assault and

then there's kellyanne conway and sarah huckabee sanders as mika pointed out defending the president of the united states and his heartless msygonist attacks. despite what kellyanne conway said this past weekend should know better because she knows the pain women endure. >> she's not naming her attacker. she must be too uncomfortable too. which i understand. >> you understand. >> i sure do. >> you understand why why it would be a difficult process. so, willie, if she understands, kellyanne conway understands why this would be such a difficult process, why is she now acting like it's somehow a mistake for the white house to show deference to dr. ford? >> well, i think, first of all, it's up to any woman as mika would agree whether or not she wants to come forward and talk about her story with specifics

and that includes kellyanne conway. but remember she set the tone for this conversation two and a half weeks ago when she was on television on a monday morning, i believe it was, and said and i think surprised a lot of people given the white house posture to every other story that makes the president look bad in some way, this woman will not be ignored, she must be heard, she will not be insulted. that was kellyanne conway. let's listen to that sound bite. >> put aside all the nonsense that's on tv and in print for people that can't be a source for his thinking. she should not be ignored, she should be heard. >> consaid that time and again. the president followed that messaging for a week or so until it unravelled. to your point, mika, i think in her heart kellyanne conway, in fact, if she's a victim of sexual assault and have no reason to believe she's not if she said so that she understands

what dr. ford is going through and that's why it makes it much worse that she has now flipped and sort of defending the president's behavior in mississippi. >> i totally agree. i totally agree that kellyanne conway has her time and place to tell her story if she ever wants to but you can't throw it out there vently if you're throwing insults to someone who has been brave enough to come forward and i thought it was incredibly disrespectful and a setback for women. we'll be right back. we'll have much more from kasie hunt joining us live from capitol hill. joining us live f capitol hill numbers to examine investment opportunities firsthand. like a biotech firm that engineers a patient's own cells to fight cancer. this is strategic investing. because your investments deserve the full story. t. rowe price.

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let's bring in kasie hunt right now at the capital. so, after all the investigations, after all the hearings, after the fbi extension, we still come down to three names, flake, murkowski and collins. where are they right now?

>> joe, we are heading in to what's going to be, i think, an extraordinary day on capitol hill where everyone will go into basically a secure facility to read the one copy of this report, and everything that i've been hearing from my sources over the course of the week is that this report than process has been designed to give those people a way to say, yes, to judge kavanaugh. to essentially say look we investigated this, there was no corroborating evidence, so we're willing to move forward. remember jeff flake had announced last friday he was going to be a yes on kavanaugh before he decided he want this process to go forward. so, my sense right now, and obviously, we haven't talked to senators yet who have seen it that this will be something to allow susan collins to get to yes. she wanted to get to yes earlier in this process, the same was true of jeff flake. the two people to really keep a close eye on actually are senator lisa murkowski, if anything there was a she was

going to vote no. she has been particularly frustrated throughout the course of this process. she's kind of over all of us chasing her in the hallways. this is a difficult decision for her. the other person is joe manchin. you were talking earlier in the show about the mid-terms and enthusiasm gap. that's really on display in west virginia. he's going to be up for re-election. it's the most pro trump state in the country and there has been a noticeable shift in how he has talked about this nomination and he's been back and forth to west virginia. this is clearly something that people feel strongly about that has affected how this is going on the ground. i think you could see him voting yes on kavanaugh. >> kasie hunt at the capital. as we've been talking peter alexander's reporting about the fbi investigation, the inquiry as senators will start to look at that about 30 minutes from now the fbi interviewed nine people, contacted ten, interviewed nine and peter goes on as a source that says the

white house has concluded that the interviews do not corroborate sexual misconduct allegations at brett kavanaugh. i think we could have seen that outsusan g. komening. the white house decided it's a go for brett kavanaugh. matt mill ear new piece entitled "it's time for democrats to play "hardball" with fbi." you write it's not enough to rely on most federal law enforcement officials to be nonpolitical figures trying to do the right thing under tough circumstances. there's no sign the republican party intends to change course soon. if anything its pressure on federal law enforcement seems likely to intensify as robert mueller's russia probe nears its conclusion. if democrats ever hope to get a fair shake their only chance is to fight fire with fire. matt, what does it took to you? what does it mean for democrats to use fire? >> what it means for democrats in these investigations got russia investigation, i think how they should have played the clinton investigation if you go back to 2016 and now to this kavanaugh investigation, what

they have to do is step up and put pressure on the fbi and on the justice department when they see the justice department doing things that are inappropriate. what the republican playbook for the last couple of years is to heap relentless pressure on the fbi, to personally attack the people there, personally attack senior officials at the justice department, to send subpoenas over for documents, to push them to do inappropriate things. the outcome is they don't get 90% of what they ask for but in key moments what they do is they get things like james comey's press conference, james comey's letter to congress, rod rosenstein asking an inspector general to punt down some of the president's conspiracy theories like pushing officials out of the fbi that shouldn't have been pushed out. i think in the kavanaugh investigation what democrats should have been doing for the last week -- i think it's pretty clear the white house has sir co -- circumscibed this

investigation. democrats should have made clear should they take either house of congress there will be investigations in how this probe was cure tailed, they will demand fbi emails be turned over, demand fbi witnesses come up to hold public hearings and what that would do is tell people inside the fbi they better very be clear this thing is conducted by the book and if it's not they taught be talking about it now. >> matt, we're well down the road in terms of people, politicians from mr. trump on down casting aspersions on the fbi and the department of justice. so my question to you is with regard to the democrats taking on this issue more forcefully is where would the democrats in the house of representatives when devon nunes, the chair of the house intelligence committee took this thing triefls and continues to do so until this very moment? >> it's a great question. the argument from democrats in congress has been we need to give people like rod rosenstein space to operate.

and this is basically the argument. if you go back to the comey point which i made early on. remember when james comey held that press conference on july 5th announcing the end of the e-mail investigation. he came up to the hill two day later, the republicans were furious with him. democrats should have been angry because it was the press conference that was inappropriate. they thought we'll give him space and basically praised him. the same thing has happened with the russia investigation where democrats have thought rod rosenstein is in a tough spot let's give him some space. when he's done things that are inappropriate and out of line from justice department precedent and that has been in response to the pressure devon nunes has put him under that you haven't seen any criticisms of doj from democrats. so what happens is if you're a doj, you're at the fbi and your only getting criticism from one side guess who you are responsive to? guess who you give into on these close calls. you don't give in to the ones

that's pressuring you, the pressure is off republicans. it's been effective. >> just over a week ago that rod rosenstein people were saying he was going to be fired. now seems he's safe for the time being. a widely held belief across washington that rod rosenstein and jeff sessions could be out of their positions soon after the mid-terms. people around the president have counselled him to hold off until then. if that happens and replaced by people not recused from the russian probe, how much more dire do things look for democrats? >> you have to step it up. you have to fight a confirmation hearing. make very clear that anyone that's confirmed for any of those jobs, you know, commits to not interfering with the probe. if i were a democrat and the solicitor general has never done a prosecution overseeing the

mueller case i want to hear from him right away. i want him to come before congress. explain why someone who has switched the government's position in a dozen case before the supreme court something that administrations never do, completely political act why someone that political is in the right position to oversee this case. i wouldn't just give the field to republicans. i'm not saying democrats need to act in bad faith the way republicans have. we shouldn't be undermining federal law enforcement. we shouldn't be undermining the justice department. but there are enough ways to in good faith come after what's happening and i think really have an impact and i think that's where the democrats need to take it going forward. >> all right. matt miller, thank you very much. still ahead one of the questions that brett kavanaugh stopped short of answering during his first hearing was whether the president can ban entry into the united states based on race. it was a pretty simple question. we'll talk about that in the context of new developments on

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tomorrow marks the start of the 19th annual new yorker festival in new york city and joining us now editor of the "new yorker" magazine jeremy remnick. >> i'm excited for a lot of different reason. mainly i don't have to see the first of three games between the yankees and red sox. >> you'll have it on your phone, i know. >> i'll just be looking at the score and not the agony as it unfolds before america's eyes. david i want to talk about the festival in a minute. first, something very interesting happened overnight with a federal judge making a decision based on immigration and immigration that's based on somebody's race. i really don't need an fbi investigation or corroborating witnesses to know that i don't think that brett kavanaugh should be on the supreme court

because he actually refused to respond to a question that said hey does the constitution allow a president or congress to ban people from the united states based solely on their race? he would not answer that question. i can't think of -- why don't we take a listen. alex wants us to take a listen to it and then we'll get your response. >> under the constitution, judge, do you believe that congress or the president can ban entry into the united states on the basis of race? >> senator, that was, of course, one of the issues that was just in litigation and there's still lie -- litigation about the immigration laws. >> you won't answer that? >> that's pending litigation, as a matter of independence and precedent -- >> will not answer that. that's fine. >> it's not pending litigation. the trump administration had to modify their muslim, so-called muslim ban three times so it

wouldn't be race based. this judge last night stopped government from deporting a group of immigrants because he feared it was based on race. >> well this, is part of the ethos of the trump presidency from the very first week of the presidency. the muslim ban. this is part of alas what so many trump voters are interested in, the anxiety about the muslim immigrants and all the rest and it's incredibly disheartening. and it's true that in the past during the hearings for supreme court justices, such questions were not posed or such questions could be dodged easily and this is part of what judge kavanaugh is referring to as a charade, he resented questions being asked and that bubbled up and came out when the hearings resumed and focused on the sexual assault

allegations. but this is at the core of the trump presidency. this view of race. this view of immigration. this is very much what's wanted from somebody from judge kavanaugh and it's really alarming. >> actually, it's what was at the heart of the trump campaign from early december when the president came out, then candidate trump came out, talking about a muslim ban and it wasn't a muslim ban based on six or seven countries that posed the greatest national security risk to americans, it was for 1.5 billion muslims. >> joe, look, the president gave a speech not long ago in which he tried to tell his voters what you can imagine if democrats succeeded in taking the house of representatives and/or the senate. and he envisioned a world of socialism run amuck. he said the country would be awash in immigrants. and he's painting a nightmarish

scenario for his voters and unfortunately, unfortunately that kind of demagoguery which was on display during the campaign and inaugural address works. it all too often works. at state it consolidates the base you talk about here every morning that fraengs the high 30s to low 40s. >> the question is, david, how does it get from the mid-30s to the low 40s or mid-40s. it's hard to imagine a swing voter or an independent voter going in, you know what, my 401(k) looks great, i don't care what he said about charlottesville. >> that is alarming. i think even on the economic questions there's no question that the unemployment has gone down which was a trend that began with the obama administration, the tax law you can debate intensely. but i think when you have a president whom the course in one

day, one day on wednesday is proven in the pages of the "new york times," in documentation, in deep reporting the kind of reporting that you referred to earlier today that's the job of journalism, this was without fear of favor and not opinion writing, that proved the president to be in business and in his inheritance a fraud. a fraud in his whole life story. then in the evening he goes to mississippi and gives the kind of speech he gave just revving up the fear and pouring hatred upon somebody just a week before he had pretended to respect, we're talking about professor ford and her testimony. that's one day. one detain this presidency that begins with depiction of his fraud in business and ends in the evening with his demo gogt e

demogogery. >> he's great at it. >> given his talent at that, fear is more contagious than chicken pox in this country. >> it's terrifying. what mika had to say about 20 minutes ago, when she was talk about sexual assault, and the attempt and at the same time the attempt by the president to not only smear professor ford but to marginalize any interest in the notion of women's rights, to mock it, to dismiss it, as if this were some marginal interest and to scare the hell out of everybody and not just men and not just white men, white male anxiety that he's playing on, this is our politics now. this is our every day public

existence and it's made people anxious, fearful, at each other's lost to. that's what's been created. now did donald trump create this politics? no. he's partly the product of this. and there's all kinds of trends that we can point to that gave rise to it. but he is, you will recall, the master of whipping up fear, of whipping up our anxieties and pitting american against american and i think history will prove this to be a real tragedy. >> and, david, also the master of sowing doubt and for making the truth something that's very hard to even get to and i think ultimately that has impacts on the foundation of our democracy, but in term of how the democrats respond to this, that's the bigger question because the president's behavior, his actions, the actions, in my

case, what i was talking about, some of the women who worked for him, who are defending his behavior and his actions it's so easy for the democrats to completely overreact because the behavior is beyond norms. >> it's very interesting, mika. very often during a presidential race people will be dismissive of the character issue. they will say well character that doesn't really matter. i think we've never seen in such stark terms the importance of character, the importance of telling the truth as opposed to lying on a second by second basis. on the complete inability of the president of the united states to have any empathy with anyone. whether it's an immigrant, whether it's women, whether it's with people of color. look, he can deride the press all he wants. i must tell you i feel very proud of the way the kind of reporting that you've seen over

the last couple of years here in the "new york times" or "the washington post" or "the new yorker," any number of places. sure it's filled with faults. but the way he wants to just dismiss the truth, and his success at doing so sometimes unfortunately is going to be proven as a real low point in modern american history. >> date, we're talking about the 19th annual new yorker festival kicking off tomorrow. you got joe and mika. >> that's the most important thing. tomorrow about 7:00 p.m. i'm interviewing jean mika on stage. i got them for over an hour. they are my hostages. >> what is the david remnick take down question? >> you got to buy a ticket. you got to buy a ticket. new yorker.com is a way you get tickets for any of these events. there's dozens of events about culture and politics but it's the joe and mika show.

>> the lineup is incredible. you may have heard there was some controversy. >> i heard about that. >> steve bannon disinvited. joe has promised to wear six shirts and a barn jacket for the interview interview to make up for it. we haven't talked to you, walk us through that decision. because a lot of people thought. we actually said in the show that morning. >> i heard. >> if we were going to pick a journalist. i hate to flatter you, to interview steve bannon as a probe and go follow up and go after him on issues where he needed to be probed, it would be you. take us through the decision. >> the decision was based. you mean the changing of my mind in. >> yeah. >> a lot of my colleagues who didn't know about that invitation. you can't know about everything all the time a lot of decision made in any case about the new yorker festival, really felt very, very strongly that this was not the right venue for it. do journalism on steve bannon,

more economic nationalism or bannon's attempt to whip up the same kind of fervor in our journalism, our commentary and our reporting, but to give him that kind of stage, they really objected. i saw it, you know, obviously, i decided early on that this was a good idea and sometimes, you know, it's not a democracy the way you run a magazine. finally i have to make a decision. i really heard them and aceded to what they were saying. >> are there people in the magazine who thought, this would be a great idea. >>. >> i had a few others. there were a lot more that really felt that what you were dock, it's a different venue than journalism. no one is suggesting for a minute that we don't write about, do commentary on, a reporting on anything in the magazine, we'll hear from different voices in the magazine

about it. the debate was about whether the festival was the right venue for somebody like the conversation with steve bannon. i had no illusions that steve bannon was going to change his mind and become an intense democrat after my intense questioning. that was where it was, right or wrong. >> let me ask you -- >> i have no illusion that certainly joe and i will agree on every subject friday night, either. >> no, agree. >> i won't even try. >> no, that won't happen any time soon. that's good for both of us. david, i want to ask you quickly, i'm obsessed just by management techniques and secrets? we're getting out of politics for a second, for instance, nick saban, extraordinarily competitive feel that he's in. yet, he somehow mansion to always win.

he separated himself from the crowd and that may be easy to do three, four, five years in. but he continues to do it. i want to ask you seriously from college football to doing what you do at the "new yorker," you guys, you, your team, have hit your stride and stayed on your stride for so long. you have been there now for well over a decade as the editor and the head of the "new yorker." what's your secret for success? why does the "new yorker" keep doing what the new yorker has been doing? why are you doing it now better than ever before? >> it's kind of you to say so, it's well over a decade, it's well over two decades, i should say. if you can stick to first principals, no matter how tough a business environment is, if you have a readership that wants exactly what you do best, you are in good shape, in other

words, our readership does not want us to dumb it down or make it benile or put it into two paragraphs, they want us to report deeply, to publish commentary without fear of favor to bar someone else's logo. so our readers want us to do our very best. they don't want us to modernize it in a way that ratchets back what we do. so the principles in the magazine put in place almost 100 years ago are what we go into office to do now. i'm one of the players here. but every writer is at the magazine, every editor at the magazine is devoted to those first principles of telling the truth, of reporting deeply, sometimes taking our time and sometimes new people come along and re-energize it, so you now you have a team at the magazine for quite some time as long as i have and ronan farrow who is 30

years old, teaming up to do a lot of reporting on the "me too" controversy. so this revives itself for the first time. >> mika, an extraordinary reputation that will be shattered in one hour tomorrow night as you and i cross the state. >> oh, you will need more than an hour, david. for more information about the "new yorker" festival, go to festival.new yorker.com. david rem nick, thank you very much for being on this morning. still ahead, the fbi wrapped up its file on brett kavanaugh. will it have any impact on the vote? more of the senators, chris coons joins us straight ahead on "morning joe." t ahead on "morning joe."

still ahead, we'll talk to a member of the senate judiciary committee, senate chris coombs is set to review the report on brett kavanaugh. did democrats lose the nomination fight. we have numbers, showing the republican voters have fired up now, ahead of the mid-terms, back in two minutes. e mid-terms, back in two minutes.

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zblompblths. this confirmation process has become a national disgrace. the constitution gives the senate an important role in the confirmation process. but you have replaced advice and consent with search and destroy. >> i was calculating daily that

the risk-benefit for me of coming forward and wondering whether i would just be jumping in front of a train headed to where it was headed anyway and that i would be personally annihilated. >> one week ago today, two people went to capitol hill to tell two very different stories. dr. ford worried about being personally annihilated. judge kavanaugh talked about a broken system. on those points, at least both seem entirely correct. welcome to ""morning joe"." it is thursday, okay 4th along with joe, willie and me, we have msnbc contributor mike barnacle, white house reporter for the associated press and political reporter for the "daily beast" betsy woodruff joins us. the final stretch. the fbi has wrapped up its investigation, mitch mcconnell

is pushing ahead on a vote. we are already seeing the impacts of this supreme court fight with republican voters appearing increasingly fired up with just about a month to go until the mid-term elections. i'd like to point out, at the end of the show yesterday, you warned about a backlash on the democrats pertaining to these kavanaugh hearings. >> a lot of them seeing them as over reaching. they talked about the media bias. they did see too many people see happening and said that there could be an impact politically and we are actually seeing that right now, mika, in some polls that actually broke a couple hours after the show yesterday. >> yeah. and it's so similar to the parallel you made to the reaction immediate reaction in general to trump. there was a blindness to what you know could be really happening. >> right. people not understanding before the election. >> so fired up on their side. >> so fired up.

people in the media actually deciding that it was their job, that it was their war and i know willie brought this up, too, during the run-up to the election, people saying, what are we going to tell our grandchildren in the run-up to the trump election and i know, willie, you were saying, well, what you tell your grandchildren is, you are a journalist. you do your job. your job is not to be the candidate. your job is to report the news. we will show some polls in a second that suggest a lot of americans may believe there is a bit of an over reach by a lot of us in the media and a lot of the democrats on the judiciary committee. >> there are a lot of americans clearly concerned about what judge kavanaugh may have done to dr. ford. in the instrument, sin interim,e them throwing ice cubes in 1995

and other stories like this that look to a lot of americans, particularly republicans, even democrats like piling on and trying to take the man down. here's what we have, according to a news hour merits poll, the largest advantage has all but evaporated. 80% of republicans say the elections in november are very important. that's a just of more than ten points since july. the republican figure is two points shy of the democrats now who saw their enthusiasm tick up slightly from the prior poll, joe. so there you have it. that's over the last month or so. >> willie, we've said it time and time again on this show when people do the generic ballot tests. it's not generic ballot tests i look at, others look at going into mid-terms. it's voter intensity and the democrats have had a massive advantage in voter intensity over the past 18 months.

and it has evaporated in the course of a couple of weeks. again, this is just one poll. but you don't have to be a rocket scientist or you don't have to have a ph.d. in politics to understand what the last couple weeks have done to energize the republican base and the conservative base to say, hey, i hate trump, but i'm not a big fan of what the democrats and the media are doing right now, too. . >> for sure, joe, for sure. look at the one thing we can document. you can document it any number of ways is the president's constant assault on the media, fake news, has really really worked. it has suffering in all across the country. there has been a series of stories about the supreme court appointment that have appeared on television and in newspapers that have caused i think a lot of americans and has polarized political atmosphere of ours, to stop, pause, say, hey, this is a

bit too much. especially one of the later stories earlier this week about a note that judge kavanaugh when he was 17 or 18 years of age wrote to his friends about a represent am a beach represent am for a weekend. at the end of that note it says we best warn the neighborings, i'm paraphrasing and tell them a bunch of drumpgs will be representing this condo for two days. i think a lot of people looked at that and said, he was 17 when he wrote that. c'mon, so things like that have added to this enthusiasm on the republican side. >> well, you have that and mika like willie said a breathless stories about kavanaugh throwing ice cubes when he was 17 or 18-years-old, anonymous stories coming out, with absolutely no sourcing. stories about gang rape factories coming out, absolutely no sourcing. you know, i wish everybody would

remember what marty bar ren tells his people at the washington post. we are not going to war. >> right. >> we are going to work. and this is a reminder. who knows, maybe kavanaugh goes down. maybe democrats have a massive landslide. i can tell you right now, these are snapshots of how americans feel today. >> it's not supposed to be how reporters feel and media analysts feel at this point in a case like this. it's not even a case yet, although the fbi is looking into it. it's a hearing, it's a job interview and what we saw and i think what is playing into this blowback you are talking about is a lot of members of the media reacting emotionally, like, for example, did brett kavanaugh feel like maybe he was lying? did it feel like maybe he was lying about drinking? did it seem like he was lying about blacking out? did it seem like he was a kind of a jerk? overly aggressive? yes, sure. >> that does not 19 he did it and we just need -- these are

emotional reactions that lead to things that are said on twitter, which lead to reaction to that. which by the way leads to exactly what donald trump wants. >> exactly what he wants. report the facts and it would probably -- probably be better if everybody in the main stream media. >> just report the facts. >> reports the facts, not take every little note he wrote on the calendar. >> we are learning to. >> 20 or 30 years ago and suggest it proves he goes to gang rapes, serial rapists or some of the other preposterous things he has been saying. >> all could be true. >> we are talking about this for a reason, it's because right now, what has happened over the past couple weeks has energized a depressed republican and conservative base and now actually put a lot of democratic senate seats in danger. >> new fox news polling shows republicans making gains, in a

number of battle ground senate races heading into 95. in north dakota, senator heidi heitcamp is trailing her republican challenger kevin cramer by 12 points. >> let's stop right there, of all the races right now, heidi heitcamp seems to be the democrat who, boy, she just seems like very endangered right now, unlike every other democrat in these tight races, it's hard to imagine how she fights her way back, especially with the kavanaugh vote in front of her. >> that's right. strategists i talked to on both parts of the party, shows her the most by far. there are other seats in missouri and so on, where republicans might have a slight edge. but this one with heigdi heitcap has absolutely energized

republicans, who are desomeopon. does that enthusiasm persist if kavanaugh were to be seated on the bench? if he comes through this, gets on the bench, is some of this enthusiasm anger, justified how they're treating our guy like this how could they deny him? certainly if he doesn't make it, yes, you'd think that continues. if he does get on, does some of that dissipate? that's what we see in the weeks ahe ahead. >> a couple weeks ago, ironically, the person who wins this fight may lose some voters in the fall because that anger will dissipate. they win, they don't feel it's motivated to go up. there is no doubt that heidi heitcamp is -- has a lot of reason to worry this morning, just like, mika, red sox fans. >> okay. in tennessee, where president trump rallied on monday, republican marsha blackburn is

leading democrat phil bredesen by five points. that's a real switch. >> that's going to be a tough battle, which i would guess is probably going to go down to the very end, because, wow, bredesen's favorable ratings in the state of tennessee are numbers that any politician would dream for. >> reporter: that's right and bredesen is the kind of candidate who needs to win if democrats are going to pull off a surprising flip of the senate. to the phil bred sense of the world aren't able to nab these kind of seats, it's extremely unlikely democrats will have to see change in control of the senate as we go into next year so this poll is really important. what it indicates, of course, that the conventional wisdom how tennessee votes, it's a super red state may still bear out as we move forward. another senate race where there is polling where it's

potentially less favorable is texas. we seen polling indicating that a surge in support beto o'rourke had may not bear out. we get polling data for months and months, leading up to these election days. it's always interesting, we pour over it, try to read the tea leaves. ultimately, polls are a largely useless until october. they just don't capture the way voters are going to think on election day. that's why these numbers coming out are so important, are going to dispel a lot of the conventional wisdom that calcified over the last six months. >> what you want to look at, mika, trend lines. that's all that matters over the next four weeks. again, these trend lines could dramatically change in a week depending on which whatty kavanaugh polling goes.

a tie between claire mccaskill and josh hawley. kirsten kyrsten sinema leads and joe donnelly leads by two points. >> willie, man, indiana, missouri, they're just complete tossups right now, could go either way. >> yeah, i think if you look at claire mccass kim the way she's been asked to voted and will vote on judge kavanaugh a no vote for him. it will be interesting. that's a tough cut. it has been within the margin of error some time now. this was always going to be a tossup. she seems to find awhat, we'll see if this year is different. john pedora tweeted yesterday, so, basically, we could be seeing a nearly unprecedented

political event in november, house waving for dems, never happened before that i know of. so, joe, that would be a very interesting dynamic here. >> it would be interesting. i don't know that that's going to happen. we have a set of democratic polls. what i've always found is, if you have a way of breaking senate candidates. you usually have that same wave breaking for republican candidates and, you know, when voters go to the voting booth, if you have somebody that is angered by what they're seeing on tv, whether they're a democrat or a republican, it drives them out to vote. if they're so motivated, they will vote for republicans straight down the line or democrats straight down the line. still ahead, senator chris coons was among those pushing for an investigation of judge kavanaugh. he'll get to see the results of that today. before that, he joins us right

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. within the next half hour, senators will begin to view information checked by the fbi into allegations against judge brett kavanaugh. joining us now, one of the members of the judiciary committee that made this investigation happen. democratic senator chris coons of delaware, very good to have you on the show this morning. >> thanks. >> i want to know, obviously, what you all will be looking for, especially in light of the fact that some are concerned there wasn't enough time to do a thorough investigation and then there seemed to be some back and forth or clarity made of the scope of it. >> reporter: that's right, mika, first i want to express my gratitude to my friends jeff flake. a week ago we were riveted by the testimony of dr. ford and

the forceful defense of judge kavanaugh. kavanaugh's nomination was on track as mitch mcconnell plowed through the senate. he should be had they gotten their way because of senator flake we got this respite for a brief focused fbi investigation. and, jeff and i both set two public tests here for what should happen. we should review whether or not judge kavanaugh was truthful in his testimony to the committee and we should have the benefit of a brief fbi investigation to focus on credible allegations before the judiciary committee. i have not yet seen the work product the fbi has delivered. i am very concerned by reports that the scope was narrowed and that only a few, fewer than ten individuals were interviewed. i think an obvious component of a credible investigation would have been the witnesses that dr. ford offered to whom she had revealed her sexual assault before judge kavanaugh was nominated and a number of other

individuals classmates of kavanaugh's from yale who i know came forward trying to reach the fbi to testify. so i haven't seen the report yet. but i will look at it with an eye focused on whether or not this scope. the scope of this investigation was sonar rowed by the white house and the republican majority that it that i would to meet the test of respecting of dr. ford's allegations. >> really. >> many of your democratic cliques have gone further than you did and called this fbi inquiry a sham. we know from our reporting today nine people were interviewed. judge kavanaugh and dr. ford were not among them. chuck grassley saying we heard their sworn testimony. that was enough. we wanted to talk to some additional people the white house, in fact, according to our reporting has concluded thatten in of those additional interviews in the fbi inquiry corroborate the allegation against judge kavanaugh. they believe he should be confirmed and confirmed by the weekend, in fact.

do you believe this fbi inquiry was a sham? >> reporter: i think the fbi conducted this inquiry at the direction of the white house and the majority in the senate. so i don't think this is the fbi's fault. i think they carried forward on the scope that they were given. but i am concerned that president trump publicly re-assured concerned senators that the fbi was going to be allowed to pursue all relevant investigatory leads for these allegations and if you've got someone like dr. ford who is urging the fbi to question her and you've got someone like dr. ford and debbie ramirez who was questioned who say here are additional witnesses who can corroborate my allegations and no effort was made to question those additional witnesses, then to me that does not seem like the robust fbi investigation the president described. >> so this looks to a lot of people, like your friends, senator flake, giving himself cover, asking for an fbi

inquiry. he can say he votes if he says yes. i took the pause button for a week. the fbi concluded there is no corroboration. here's my yes vote. was this anything than for a few to recover through judge kavanaugh? >> reporter: that's viewing it through a critical lens. i know my three colleagues who pushed for a broader investigation, i'll let them speak for themselves as to whether they're satisfied with it. we don't yet know their votes. i haven't read this report yet. i'm not going to prejudge it. what you are saying is a characterization based on reporting, not based on facts. i do still think it was important to send a signal to dr. ford and debbie ramirez and many, many other victims of sexual assault that they were not just going to pull through with this confirmation without any further investigation. >> senator, i want to ask you about a letter sent last night by one of your colleagues, senator durbin to chuck

grassley, the head of the judiciary committee, which he was refuting a tweet put out by the republican party that said the six previous fbi reports judge kavanaugh underwent during his time as confirmation as a judge had no whiff of anything related to inappropriate sexual behavior or alcohol abuse. that was the tweet from the republican party, senator durbin said actually that's not true. what is he talking about? is there something specific? why don't we know about it? why hasn't that been put into the evidence? >> reporter: i can't speak publicly what we're debating because it is a controversial background information. as of last night i had not heard from senator durbin and wasn't sure what he was referring to. i consulted with him and i agree with senator durbin. >> you believe there was a previous behavior by judge kavanaugh? >> reporter: that's not what i'm

confirming. let's be careful here. >> was it the alcohol abuse then? it's one of two things? >> reporter: i'm simply going to say asupport senator durbin's assertions. >> his assertions are that in the previous six fbi reports, there was evidence put forth inappropriate sexual behavior or alcohol abuse. why didn't the american public hear about this during this confirmation process? >> reporter: specific allegations or results of fbi investigations in a background investigation are not public. >> and will this impact your vote on judge kavanaugh? >> reporter: it will not. i was already well aware of the specific incident being referred to here. i came to a conclusion i would vote no on judge kavanaugh before dr. ford's testimony was heard. based on his jurisprudence, his extreme view on presidential power and his views on individual liberty, particularly the landmark decision by justice

kennedy that establish marriage equall, i concluded i would vote against judge kavanaugh. >> so, senator, we heard you and willie doing the back and forth on the durbin letter, the fbi investigation, the extended background check. we've all witness the hearings, the testimony by everyone. let me ask you. have you been happy with the tone and the tenor of the process and are you aware of i think what happens to the image of the united states senate among many people in this country. are you happy with that? >> reporter: not at all. mike, that's exactly what motivated me in the last week is, first, wanting to respect and hear and respond to so many individuals i've known, miami and demale friends and people i've just met from delaware and from here who shared with me stories of sexual assault. second to your point, i am gravely concerned that what the

american people see that what the world sees, of our senate is partisan bickering, personal attacks, challenging each other's motives at a level i haven't seen in our eight years here, i will remind you, i have been here since 2010 when the tea party brought in folks that conducted themselves on the floor in fairly sharp waves. this has been a tough eight years, for me in terms of both parties attacking the other, i'm concerned about what this means for the ability of our is thatt to work together and to get anything done. yesterday, yesterday, we passed two significant pieces of legislation on the floor, big bipartisan packages to address opioids and heroin addiction and to move forward on faa reauthorization and pass a bill i wrote or worked closely on with senator corker. there is no coverage of that. the coverage focuses on our fighting and our fighting is sharp and personal and sends exactly the wrong message. >> senator, two questions for

you. first. have you spoken to your friends flake, he satisfied with it? secondly, it's not the image of the senate but we heard about drcht ford, what sort of impact do you see that having not just on the reputation of what you are trying to do there in washington. as a chilling effect on other women who might want to come forward with their own stories of the sexual abuse, sexual misconduct. so many things happened to them to have him up there on the rally stage. >> absolutely. >> mocking her, having the crowd laugh along with him? >> reporter: that is in many ways the worst aspect of this whole sad chapter. a week ago, president trump was saying that dr. ford's testimony was credible and that she was brave to come forward. less than a week later, he is publicly ridiculing and mocking her at a political rally in mississippi.

this is not the sort of behavior we would hope for or expect from a president from our leader of the executive branch of our government. i think it's important that all of us in the senate conduct ours in how we describe this allegation and this process, how we speak to and about each other in ways that rebuild and weave back together the fabric of our nation here. because, frankly, when the president goes on national television and does something like that, it sends a chill through everyone who has suffered through or survived or witnessed sexual abuse and makes them say, why would i ever come forward and subject myself to that sort of ridicule. >> senator coons, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. still ahead, he mocked his opponent, made fun of how his opponent walked, did impersonations, but that didn't stop him from becoming one of the most storied republican presidents. no, we're not talking about president trump, presidential historian doris kerns goodwin

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. president trump just tweeted. the harsh and unfair treatment of judge brett kavanaugh is having an incredible upward impact on voters. the people get it, far better than politicians. most importantly, this great life cannot be ruined by mean and despicable democrats and totally uncorroborated allegations. >> speaking of uncorroborated allegation, mika, i've noticed already people are lying about you, i predicted they would lie about you. there are some bloggers that obviously get paid by the lie saying you were trying to out yeley anne. it was very simple. you were saying, basically pointing out what a hypocrite she was by saying we were treating dr. ford has a fabergeic. you are not saying she needs to come out. it's in the transcript. >> you can read it. you can chop it up like trump says you do. >> the same sites.

constantly lie, constantly. it's remarkable. you get paid by the lie. but in this case, mika, make your point again, some people obviously get paid by the lying headlines and block. make your point. maybe they weren't lying. maybe they're just stupid. could you make your point again about what you were saying about kelly yan? >> we had the president of the united states mocking dr. christine blasey ford, mocking her. i was making this point it is incredibly hard to put yourself in front of the blinding lights of the media in a politically charged situation like this to tell her story and how dare he mock her. but even worse, how dare sarah huckaby sanders and kellyanne conway go on to protect this president and even say that he was doing the right thing by mocking her and kelly yan conway said that she has been treated like a fabergeic.

really? kellyian led it be known she, herself was a victim. i'm saying this as a victim of sexual assault myself. try being theic. it's not that easy. it is not that easy, i understand kellyian, it's not. ut can't take this and run with it and make yourself the victim with me. i'm not doing it. i'm revealing your hip possible chrissy -- hypocrisy. the level you will go to without any care of what you are doing to women who are setting us back. >> we said a couple hours ago, willie, who ill this discussion was going forward, we said in real time, thank god that kellyian conway was shown respect and treated like a quote faberge egg when she told her difficult story. >> yep. >> but she doesn't extend that any more. she did at first. but she doesn't extend that courtesy to another woman.

>> nope. >> who was obviously i think even republicans on the committee agree, obviously, with sexually harassed and assaulted by somebody. >> i'll say again, kellyian conway like all women should be given the time and space if they want to talk about it publicly, reveal their experience, that's completely up to kellyian and to any woman that puts it forward. >> i'm sorry, willie, you said that i want to add on to what you said. i pointed out, when i was speaking from the heart to camera, how difficult it appeared to be for her to talk about. everything about her demeanor changed. and she, herself, showed us how difficult this is to talk about and how wonderful that jake tapper was respectful and kind and not overly intrusive and gave her the treatment that a lot of victims don't get. especially dr. ford. >> gave her the treatment that

now donald trump and sarah huckaby sanders and, yes, kellyian conway is not giving dr. ford. >> not even close. >> to give that performance that kellyian gave in the driveway the day after president trump said what he said in mississippi will not sit well with a lot of people, nor should it. i think what you saw from her and sarah sanders yesterday is frustration with the process. they feel this has been delayed and delayed and dr. ford's lawyers are not cooperating with the just dish comblaert. that's what you saw when she talked about a fabergeic, we tried to give her everything she asked for him we agreed people go to california and interview her. all these things, they're tired of waiting. we will be back with the new cover of "time" magazine. we will be back with the new cover of "time" magazine

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let's bring in right now pulitzer prize winning author and presidential historian doris goodwin, the book is "leadership

in tush leapt times." you talk about growth in turbulent times. we have already spoken you and i about the example. one of the most extraordinary examples of growth, abraham lincoln at the start of the war published a lot of letters saying i don't care how you you into it the union, if it's a nation of slaves or a nation half slave half free, i'll do whatever i can do to preserve the union. that's what this war is about. a year later, obviously, he staked his legacy and the union on the freeing of the slaves. but you talk about another story a far more personal story where abraham lincoln made an opponent cry and it forever changed the way he campaigned. tell us about it and what we can learn from it. >> right. i think it just shows what happens when a potential political figure can learn how to grow from his own mistakes and the things he does that he's not proud of. he was mocking an opponent.

he did it so well. he made fun of his voice the gesture the way he walked, talked, the opponent started crying, abraham lynn cal realized and gave him a heart felt apology. more than anything else, he said, if that's what it takes, it's not the person i am is essentially what he is saying. later he could say honestly in his presidency, i never put a thorn in anybody's side. the whom idea of the second inaugural malice towards none, let us bind up our nation's wounds, contrast with the fact that you would have hoped that president trump would have learned from the reaction from the time he made fun of the disabled reporter on his campaign trail. you would have hoped he how badly he was treated by the press when he talked about miss khan, here he was again in mississippi talking in this mocking tone about this woman. that's a lack of growth, it's one of the most important

qualities in a leader. you can become a lead fer you grow, if you stay where you are, then you have to worry about the temperament, the temperament of a leader. >> can we talk about those extraordinary four words that abraham lincoln used you referenced a second inaugural. the south that started a war. 700,000, almost 700,000 americans killed, the north and the south separated in a way that we just can't even begin to imagine today and yet abraham lincoln in his second inauguration talks about binding the country back together again and uses those words with malice towards none. what an extraordinary moment, not only in that man's life, but in the life of this country and what great lesson for us all today. >> oh my god, how important it would be for us. think about it twhachlt he says

in that inaugural is the sin of slavery was shared by both side. both sides prayed to the same god, neither's prayers were answered. if we could have leaders right now talking about this divisiveness, which is as bad as i've seen in my lifetime. we didn't see the right temperament with the judge when he went after the democratic party in his hearings the clinton revenge. you don't need corroborating evidence about the assault, itself, to know that's not the judicial temperament we need at a time when things are so bad tone ally in our -- on ttonally one of the things we need is to heal the country. tedry roosevelt said when people heal each other from different races, religions as the other. that's where we are right now. nel we can heal that a democracy can't work.

we're feeling that today. >> that seems larger than the debates going on about the hearings right now. what we saw in that institution is what mike said earlier, until the institution becomes more important to you. until your country becomes more important than your party, where are we? i sometimes feel we are back in the 1850s when things are coming apart like that. >> you covered roosevelt, fdr, lynn don johnson. -- lippedowe lyndon john-onson. i think too many think the lights are going out in america. can you point to the fact this is not going to happen and the darkness that occurred in the past that we overcame. >> think of how many different times we had immigrants come into the country. i remember in the 18 -- i don't remember in the 1890s, i read about the 1890s when there were speeches on the senate floor

saying the white race is going to be overwhelmed. we only need europeans coming. we can't have people coming from other parts of the world. we strengthened ourselves. we got stronger with each immigrant group that came in. we should be welcoming the changes in our democratic ones, we should be able to look at this as part of our nation. this is what's built us. instead, there is this fear of the future. what we need leaders to tell us if the future is going to be changed by us. one of the things roosevelt said is problems created by man can be solved by man, we have to believe we have the confidence to figure out our economy to take place of what's happening to the people who have lost their work. it's no good to go backwards, in terms of race relation, gender relation or white it/black relations. we need that positive leadership to come forward. it will come from somewhere. maybe it's a governor a mayor,

somebody we don't know who understands the pivotal point we're at right now and is able to somehow make this country come together and it's more important than what's happening, even at this moment with this hearing. >> well said. as always, before you go, an important question to you, joe is playing the roam of fatal red sox fans, barnacle, the confident red sox fans says sox in 4, where do you come oun? >> sox in 6, sox in 5. >> that extra race is going to be really poin important. it will be just for us. >> confident but not too confident. the new book is leadership in turbulent times. let's bring in national correspondent for "time" magazine, she has a new piece in what's changed in light of the kavanaugh confirmation battle. she writes, in part, it was like

watching a re-enactment of the 2016 election, all in one dave. but something has shift since 20 ken. on the first full day of trump's presidency, nearly 4 million americans gathered for the women's march, likely the latest "me too" movement. since clinton's defeat a record of number of female candidates have stepped up to run for office, themselves. another blond woman, another loud man. this time there are no hacked e-mails or immigration debates, when she says one thing, he says another, whom does america believe? it looks like with the fbi inquiry the follow-up, we will not get further into convincing either side he said it or she said it. >> absolutely, correct. for many americans, the 2015 election essentially hinged on a

conundrum. it was a referendum on what american women can achieve politicalty and what american men can get away with. the answer is american men can get away with a lot. we elected by at least a dozen women of sexual assault. so the thing is, a lot has changed in the last two years. we've seen that male impunity crumble with the me too movement. we've also seen women's political power grow in a way that has been largely unprecedented. in some ways, the 2016 election showed us that american women didn't have the unified political capital to elect a female president. that might be changing with the wave of women we see going into the 2018 midterms. >> there's so much been made of of course the energy these candidates have. the women have politically. let's say kavanaugh gets through anyway, he's going to be seated on the bench. did that become a frustrating moment like nothing's actually

changed? >> i've spent the last year talking to women all over the country about not kavanaugh in particular but about their political engagement. these women are already very engaged. 71% of democratic women say they're extremely motivated going into the midterms. i think if kavanaugh is seated, it's going to be turbo-charge that. the question, is it for women already engaged and are we just kind of turning up the volume on women who were planning already on showing up? i don't think that's necessarily the case. again, roe v. wade is at stake here. roe v. wade is something that is overwhelmingly popular with american women in particular but americans overall. and also there has been a shift in attitudes. especially since this -- since the anita hill hearing 27 years ago. i mean, right now, 45% of americans believe ford and only 33% believe kavanaugh. that's something that's certainly going to have an impact if he's seated on the court. >> one of the pieces in this

magazine, to victims, ford's testimony was an invitation to speak up. no matter how powerful the accused. no matter how long ago the attack. people will listen. country seemed to reassure them we will believe you. a great new issue of "time." thanks so much. it took less than a month after being inaugurated for president trump to start calling journalists the enemy of the people. the very roots of american democracy. keep it on "morning joe." ing jo. ignition sequence starts. 10... 9... guidance is internal. 6... 5... 4... 3... 2... 1... ♪

a few days ago, i called the fake news the enemy of the people, and they are, they are the enemy of the people. because they have no sources. they just make them up when there are none. >> at one point, he started to attack the press. there were no cameras. there was nothing going on. i said, you know, that is getting tired. why are you doing this? you're doing it over and over and it's boring and it's time to end that. you know, you've won the nomination. why do you keep hammering at this? and he said, you know, why i do it? i do it to discredit you all and demean you all so when you write negative stories about me, no one will believe you. >> from the beginning of his presidency, donald trump has accused the press of being an enemy of the people. our next guest, one of the pillars of the journalism

community, the president so often attacks, warns we should fear for the future of american democracy due to these unrelenting assaults. his new book is entitled enemy of the people. trump's war on the press. the new mccarthyism and the threat to american democracy. joining us now, award winning journalist, senior fellow at the brookings institution and former moderated of "meet the press," marvin kalb. thank you for being on. >> thank you, my pleasure. >> tell us about the challenges, the concerns, your book raises about the freedom of the press and the impact this presidency is having on our democracy. >> well, my own feeling is, and it always has been, i've been in this business now for more than 60 years. i've learned a couple of things. when a society has a free press and an unafraid press, it's going to have a vibrant

democracy. when the press is humiliated, depressed, made to feel less than a full sublg in that society, democracy itself is weakened. when the president on february 17th, 2017, for the first time, used that expression, enemy of the people, i personally was shocked. i was absolutely shocked. because the expression has a very specific origin. it goes to the 20th century extremists, the dictators, hitler, stalin, mao, they are the people that used that expression. no leader of a democracy had ever done that. when president trump did it, i was stunned because i know he is not of that persuasion at all. so why did he do it? he did it to humiliate the press and make them conform to what he wants. but when you do that, you lose the spirit of a free press and that is the essence of our

democracy. >> so how do you think the press has responded to this challenge and where can he improve? >> this is an interesting question. i think right now, journalism appears to be split between two camps. there's one camp that says, in effect, let's just cover the news. let's not get absolved with trump to the degree we have to. let's not go overboard on that. chuck todd for example, so says at this particular point, when the press is attacked, the press ought to fight back. if the press is accused of making up the story of fake news, let the public see exactly what the basis of the the story is. in other words, some people want to fight back. other people just want to do their job. >> marvin, in some measures, the president's war on the press has been good for the press, "the times" where i work has seen a bump in subscriptions.

"the post" has as well. our channel right here is doing very well. so really is the problem with the president and all readers or, just to be frank here, is the crisis for the press with conservative readers who don't trust the press because of attacks from the president? and if so, what steps can reporters and journalists do in good faith to allay the concerns of conservative readers and viewers that were not working in good faith? >> look, there were many, many years ago, when i remember ed murrow at cbs, the the guy who hired me in 1957, murrow took on senator mccarthy. and he took mccarthy on, on the basis of facts. mccarthy was a danger to the society. murrow, representing a free press, could take on mccarthy and win. cronkite, during the vietnam war, looked at it and said this is a stalemate we can't win, let's get out. that was a major statement. woodward and bernstein is

another great example of how the press, when unleashed in a free society, can accomplish miracles. i happen to feel right now that though there is no murrow today, there is a collective wisdom in the press that when it covered any story right now that represents the trump crisis, they're going to get to the heart of it. and when they get to the heart of it, the american people say thank you. >> the book is, enemy of the people, trump's war on the press. the new mccarthyism and the threat to american democracy. marvin kalb, thank you so much. we could talk to you for hours. we really appreciate your coming on this morning. >> thank you so much. >> and stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much, mika. good morning. i'm stephanie ruhle. with a lot to cover today. starting with the report is in. the fbi concludes its supplemental investigation into brett kavanaugh, delivering a report to the white house overnight.

this morning, all 100 senators will have the chance to be briefed on its finding it is behind closed doors and mcconnell schedules a vote for friday. >> they'll be plenty of time for members to review and be briefed on the supplemental material. >> and a standoff in south carolina. an upscale community erupts in gunfire. >> suspect has a high-powered rifle and is firing at officers as we speak. >> an officer down at this time. suspect still firing. use precaution. >> an elderly man opens fire on police, issuing a search warrant, trying to gather evidence for an alleged sexual assault. costing one officer his life. >> pray for the family who lost the bravest police officer that i have ever known. >> and act blue. democrats turn to micro democracy to raise money.